$600 Winter Tires vs $2000 WRC Rally Tires
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Come geek out with me ►► / tyrereviews
The Pirelli Ice Zero 2 is one of the best studded road tires money can buy on snow and ice, but how does it compare to a competition based WRC rally tire at over three times the price?
To find out I'm testing the Pirelli Ice Zero 2 against the Pirelli SottoZero WRC rally tire from the 2021 Swedish rally event. The IceZero is 225/40 R18 and the WRC tire 205/65 R15.
Both tyres have a similar goal, and both tyres are heavily governed by different rule sets.
The Pirelli IceZero 2 has been developed around the stud, a 10mm long tungsten carbide pinned monster with a 1mm protrusion. The studs are positioned to to optimise noise and grip, and the area around the stud is designed to keep snow away from the pin, which is very important for maximum traction.
The biggest challenge for the road tyre is the road wear test, which every studded road tyre must pass to ensure the tyres don't do too much damage to the roads.
The WRC tyre has no regard for the road, it just needs maximum grip in some of the toughest conditions possible. Rules limit the tyre to 12 studs per 10cm of travel and a 7mm stud protrusion.
It must fit on a 15x7" wheel, which is no big sacrifice as the narrower tyre improves pressure helping it dig through to the surface below, and it uses a sharp flat profile to saturate the width of the footprint.
Which of these two tyres will be best on snow and ice? Let's find out.
There's some big differences with the tires:
Pirelli IceZero 2
- The tire was developed around the stud
- It has non asymmetric studs
- The stud is an aluminum stud with tungsten pin - 0.9g - 10mm long with 1mm protrusion
- Geometry around the studs very critical to keep snow away from pin which is very important for grip
- Stud layout very important for noise - different pattern for studs and tread pattern - random but also even pattern needed.
- Directional tire pattern
- As the Ice Zero 2 has more than 50 studs per meter, it needs to pass a road wear test
Pirelli Sottozero
- Main constraint 12 studs per 10cm of length
- Optimise position of studs, similar problems just different application
- Studs are cured in the tyre
- Narrower tire to improve pressure - sharp flat profile to saturate the width of the footprint - tarmac tyre more rounded on the shoulder
- 7mm stud protrusion
- Directional asymmetric tread pattern - different tyres left and right
- WRC specifies an 18x8 wheel for tarmac and 15x7 for gravel and ice. The ice tire is narrower than the gravel tire.
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:20 About the Tires
1:15 Snow Testing
4:17 Ice Testing
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Music by www.epidemicsound.com/ - Авто та транспорт
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Tarmac WRC tires next?
I'm glad to see you've called your channel "Tyre Reviews". I'm sad to see you've called this video "...winter tires...rally tires". It's as sad as seeing someone microwave a cup of tea really.
Next up, comparison between an apple, to an orange. Coming up next!
You do realize we do expect Rally Tarmac slicks vs Micheline P4S this coming summer, right? :D
f1 soft slick vs cup2r would be insane. Although I think they are a bit too massive
I was just to suggest that. Now we need reviews of other Rally Tires. Keep up with good work!!!
I'm aiming for the WRC tarmac tyre vs a Trofeo R or Corsa 😍💓
I think the Cup 2 would be a better test than the 4S, but it would be pretty amazing to see the differences.
I was very impressed with the test you did a little ago with racing slicks.
PS4S isn’t a very sporty tyre… Cup 2 would be a better comparison
“I don’t care about cars, I care about tyres!” 😂😂😂
Brilliant vid 👍
My cousin (Swedish) bought a set of these off a rally driver that had been used for one race for $500. He used them to put on his winter car and described the grip on them "as if he'd been driving in the dry on summer" and looking at this video that seems to be fairly accurate haha.
Its very common here in sweden, we are lile 25-30 cars with rally tires on old volvos and bmw racing on lakes every winter
@@Frutttee did this yesterday in Norway :)
I have a set for my drift car, it's stupid fun!
For all the hard work you put into helping all of us learn about tyres this year, I'm elated to see you enjoy this drive so immensely! Thank you for such a great year!
Thanks, it was a really fun one!
@@tyrereviews so question 🙋♂️ as I got some snow what is the max recommend from the racing winter tires vs the winter tires vs the all weather tires? Also in your opinion what advantages do those tires provide?
Your emotional reaction to this means a lot. You made the right choice keeping that in, and I am genuinely impressed how you get the most out of the tyres you test. You must be a very, very good driver.
He is!
Having spent many years involved in all aspects of rallying in central Finland, the most useful advice I was given, by the lads who grew up with these things, about driving on spiked competition rally tyres was "Don't try to be gentle with them, use the lateral grip for everything!" Basically, they need to change shape as much as possible to generate the loading required to be competitive. And the second most useful thing I was told was "They have as much grip as asphalt tyre in summer- on asphalt!" I used to enjoy watching my english mates' faces the first time they experienced this kind of grip on snow and ice, because it was the same expression I had first time too!!! Total disbelief!
About 20 years ago, friend of mine (rally driver) had new Mitsubishi Evo and went to Estonia. He had new sets of studded Michelin’s. After few first stages of rally on frozen lake, he was almost last. Every crappy car was before him in the table.
He asked what he doing wrong, and the answers was that he has to small balls, because with these types of tyres he can drive much, much faster :). In second day he was in first 5. These tyres are another dimension. You have to switch a lever in brain to rally on them.
i love finnish / swedish drivers, they're all so to the point and so fast
@@jankusmierski I do see his point of view! But once you make the connection on that first truly fast corner and truly late braking decision... the world will never look the same again!!
The studded road tyres are insane enough the first time I experienced them on snow/ice in Finland, the WRC ones must be another step up in insanity again.
@@scott5146 all I can say is if you ever get the chance, jump at it! It will take a week to stop smiling!!!
Not discounting your other amazing work, This was the most enjoyable video to watch you’ve ever made.
I appreciate that! I thought it would be a bit of a flop but the comments seem to enjoy it :)
Passion and Joy are always watchable 🍻🇨🇦
I agree, great video :)
He was nearly crying of joy! I only care about tyres ! Bless him..
I have to say his videos are probably one of the most professional done on you tube.
I would put my children life in this man advice of choosing tyres 😊
Thank you, I appreciate the confidence :)
Reminds me of those old 90's Michelin commercials with Bibendum and the babies, "Because so much is riding on your tires."
I usually like your videos because of the great data you come up with. This time it’s just nice to see you enjoying yourself and getting to put some amazing tyres through their paces.
Love your work 👌
Thank you, appreciated
There's a very good reason why Sweden WRC round on snow and ice is often the fastest average speed of the season and it's all down to the grip the tyres provide.
Nice to see how much you are enjoying this 😁
I hope I missunderstood. You can't compare avg. speed on different tracks and tires. You need to take away a variable or its useless.
@archer9746 Sweden and Finland are both extremely fast rallies but one is on snow the other grave. The drivers say they have far more grip and higher corner speed on the narrow studded tyres on snow and ice in Sweden than they have on fast gravel with the correct tyres
@@bat33.12 Last year rally Sweden in Umeå average speed 121.52 km/h on snow.
Finland last year on gravel average speed 125.32 km/h.
@@ulgn1964 Yes but he said often. You only listed last year.
@@bat33.12 If a driver said they have more grip on snow tires then gravel tire, I 100% belive him and your comment makes sense.
*next time start with that
What an awesome experience. Once you have gone winter rallying, you never forget it.
Brilliant! Best review I've ever watched - pure joy was seen here. Tis the reason we love motorwerks!
I'm glad that I found a channel that tests tires. Tire science is cool.
your genuine excitement when talking about a tire got me exited!!!
I’m not sure my grandkids were as excited about Christmas as you are in this video …. BRILLIANT!
:D
Most (all?) modern cars have way to wide tires for snow. Best winter tires I've had is, by far, from my first car, an Audi 80 CC -85 that had 165 mm wide tires.
One modern car which doesn't is the i3. 155s all round
Honestly though, how much of that was down to the Audi weighing in at 950kg? New cars often being twice that, or 2,5 times as much for EVs. You wouldn't want to try and stop that kind of weight on a 165 tires in the dry or wet.
The current Toyota Yaris X also has narrow tires, 175 i think. (tall but slim).
But i have to say i do disagree a bit. My first car had 175mm wide winter tires. (it was a car fom 84 and i had it between 98 and 01.)
I then moved on to a car that had 195mm tires, then a car with 205 section, then 225mm and in 2014 i got a car with 255 section winter tires.
And while they were all god tires for their area either from Goodyear, Dunlop or Michelin (i never had bad tires from either of these companies) With each switch it felt like i got more grip even though the tires got wider.
The 255mm tires in the 525hp car offere more grip on snow and ice than the 175mm tires i had on the 88hp first car.
Tires have improoved a lot over the decades.
Where the narrow tires have an undebatable advantage is in heavy slush and aquaplaning. (But the latter one is also true for summer tires)
@@MarkusAJ That is a good point but as shown with the rally tires here more narrow tires can be made to hold up. I do miss the low weight of older vehicles as well but not the collision safety.
And then we have the whole "drive with your head" that to often is forgotten.
@@nirfz I agree with you. I consider "narrow winter tires are better" as a common myth, nothing more. Even if it does hold true in some conditions, that doesn't make it a good idea with modern cars.
Light weight is mostly nice though, unless your trying to plow trough deep snow.
Jonathan, this, especially your 3 minute rant during the snow session (1:15), is the most beautiful, inspiring TV I've watched in a while. Thank you!
First of all: Awesome driving!!!
Second: Amazing content as usual!
Thanks :)
Loved the video! Respect was given to the viewer even in the editing. 1:30 and already into actual content is the dream
Thanks! I try and keep intros under a minute usually
this video makes me so happy, as a massive automotive fan, especially rally, it’s so awesome seeing someone talking more about one of the most important parts of a car, the tyres, the part that is actually touching the ground, and the fact that you’re going so in depth about them is very interesting. i also fully understand the emotional response, the day i get to drive a rally car, i know i’ll be bawling. non car people don’t understand the emotional connection some of us have to aspects of automotives.
Love this! Good to see you having such a lot of fun. I always appreciate your tests & although this isn't relevant to my needs I loved your reactions!
Thanks for your great tire reviews and for giving us those emotions with the WRC tires 🤩
Can't believe you actually did this, a dream comparison for us rally fans and tyre enthusiasts! Great work as always and happy holidays everyone!!!
Thank you :)
I did go-karting on a frozen lake in Are, Sweden. Studded tyres were incredible, flat out on the straights and drifting on the corners, made me feel much more confident driving on ice. I envy the Finns and Swedes, who grow up driving on snow and ice in the winter!
Exactly the test I wished for when I asked for a regular vs lappi vs rally spiked tire test. Glad to hear you had fun!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Just discovered your channel. This is great! I didnt think I've ever seen anyone so excited about tyres.
Glad you had fun and thank you for the work you do!
Thank you Jonathan for another year of facts & fun watching your tyre tests👍 So looking forward to the same in 2023 😊
This brings joy to my face to see you having this much fun!
Never seen you so stoked. Banger video mate! Keep them coming!
I'd love to see rest of other rally tyres, or tyres from other types of motorsports.
Great idea!
I've always thought that the performance of the cars on snow is too good in rally games. And now i see proof that the tires are really so good! Thank you for the video.
Great video! Watching you stumble for words was actually quite funny! Can you do a video on tire pressure and how we can determine what we should run for autocross or track day?
A pressure video is definitely on the list but surprisingly hard to do, I've already tried twice lol
So the science behind why narrow tires work best on the snow is they cut through the light and fluffy snow which offers little to no grip and they cut down to the hard pack or pavement. Which offers a lot of grip and the spikes and studs will cut into the ice which is the obvious part
Ohh my glob!!!! Your vids keep getting doper!!!!
Loved the video! Your emotions in the car spoke louder than the data.
Great review! WRC drivers say they have way more grip with studs on ice than on gravel with gravel tires :)
+ the more ice = more grip.
It was the one I was waiting for 🥰. I can't imagine how fun it must be to drive. I wish you can do the same test on track with a good semi slick and the WRC tyre.
Working on it :))
Amazing video. Super interesting how much those massive studs do for traction compared to road legal studs. Thank you for all your videos. I decided to buy a set of Crossclimate 2 tires for my car based on your videos.
You have literally knocked me down with this review (for wanting a better word). Never thought I could get emotional about tyres but evoking WRC days brought it all back (Ari Vatanen was my hero when I was a kid). I now simply have to go there and try this in first-person mode, with lots of tissue on board. Still bloody reeling...I can't thank you enough for this.
Seriously, if you have the possibility to do it, really do. It's freaking awesome.
Hope you didn't get hurt when you fell.
I've never seen someone genuinely love a set of tires so much they look like they might cry. Until watching your video today. I've subbed
Being both exhausted and extremely happy is a feeling I chase all the time. Thank you for showing us the performance of these tyres! Now to play WRC generations lol
What an amazing experience! Wow those are some impressive tires to get the car moving like that 😳🔥
This is really neat. Thanks for doing this.
Great video and honest commentary!
Tyre reviews is the best in the world ! Super drive ! Super test ! Super man !
Le case madri hanno bisogno di una persona che collauda come te !!!!!!!!!
First time I see your reaction as frighteningly fun ( almost to the point of tearing up perhaps?). Anyway great fun to watch!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I learned something today! Very nice video...
Hahaha wow, I knew this would be a great video when I saw the Subaru rally car in the background. Maybe not quite as informative as your usual videos but still a great watch. Never knew they made tires like that. Good to see you enjoyed your test drive 😂
:D
Ahah, I've followed your channel for years for the great consumer advice you give.
Think this is the first video of yours I've seen with absolutely zero useful information for me, but it's just you having a great laugh! Love it.
Thank you :)
Great and emotional video, I know that you would be a great rally driver😎👌
Great content and fun to watch!
The emotions just made this video that much better. I always loved tires more than cars/trucks too but I like the a/t-r/t-m/t side more but the quality and data this guy provides just makes me want to know road tires too 😂😂😂
You got your Christmas present and were very happy about it :)
But yes, grip of WRC "saws" is insane. Heard few times, that on some tracks records on "saws" in winter can best summer records on tarmac.
Wow what a great experience that must’ve been! Can’t wait to do that one day
Dude, you’re breaking into tears at 3:08.
You’re my hero. I get it. I totally get it. Keep up the great work!!!!!!
I love how happy you are in this video 😊
:D
This was a bloody awesome video. 😊
I bet someone had fun that day 😂
All the fun!
Great car, great tires and as always a great video👍🏻👍🏻
Cool test!❄️❄️❄️
Just a few days ago I saw a pic of a rally Pirelli and said to myself “I’d like to see that tested!” You’ve done it again.
Man my job seems so boring now. Are you interested in an intern. I'm 40 with a degree in engineering. Will work for pizza! Great video!
Mmm delicious pizza
"I need a rally car." That says it all! Freakin' awesome!
I've NEVER seen you have that much fun. Do not apologise for being unable to speak. What a great video! :D
Thank you!
A test perfect for the holidays, not very helpful for the daily ride but fun to watch and informative.
I still wait unpatiently for the All Terrain Tyre comparison on snow, happy holidays and "einen guten Rutsch" what you can take literally ;-)
Still working on that test, it's proving a little tricky to get together!
@@tyrereviews no hurry, this would be a unique test, so make it perfect. It will be for sure another highlight which sets your channel apart all others.
No one has ever done this in a clean way, there are only experien ces on single tyres but no comprehensive comparison test. Good luck.
"I don't care about cars, I only care about tyres" a man of his word
I watch all your videos, and this is by far the most entertaining !
I was laughing along with you!
You bet I am going to find a rally school and sign up!!
Love WRC!!
Well, done and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
🚗💨❄️❄️☃️
If you do let me know how you enjoy it :)
@@tyrereviews you will be the first to know!
From one tire geek to another…. Happy Holidays!
@@raphaeldevalle9653 Happy holidays! :)
I'm so happy for you that you had so much fun. Now Pirelli must give you rally car and tires for similar test on mud, gravel and tarmac. I bet it will be similar fun to test it for you and to watch for us.
Guy really loves tires, hope companies send him experimental ones too!!
I loved that you tripped over words the whole way. lol Trust me I understand. Dude you did a great job. Looked like you had a blast.
This is some great viewing!
LOVE your reaction!!
With all the great work you do, you deserve this kind of fun
thanks :)
It makes perfect sense. You have better traction and that's spread over a smaller contact patch. You're putting the power down, braking, turning, and accelerating harder. My father used to turn faster lap times with studded tires ice racing motorcycles then he did on "regular" tires on the same distance road course.
As a former motorsport guy, living in the city of the Swedish rally, I have some experience.
You actually have better grip wtih the winter tires on ice/snow then with summer tires in the summer, the stage times tell you that, but also the fact that you rip trough clutches and driveline components like crazy, something that holds up just fine in the summer breaks during winter due to better grip.
Oh, we also do Ice-racing here, with longer studs, bolted trogh the tires, for even more insane grip.... You are welcome.
inn 2018 i got wrc tiers used att age 15, and it truly changes the feel of the car, used them on my 101hp fwd audi a3, and man that was just as awsome like you describe. Recomend trying summer tires inn the back and wrc tires on the fornt on a fwd on snow / ice :)
Please don’t ever say sorry. The more difficult it is for you to talk the more exciting it is for us the viewers. What a brilliant review…just far too short! 😅
Epic video ❤
god i can't WAIT to do this one day. this looks like such incredible fun 😍
Brilliant video congratulations!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you! 😃
I love how you look perpetually terrified on the track, despite having outstanding traction and seemingly having a lot of fun.
What a fun job you have !
For all your hard work this is a well deserved gift. Thx for all your Tests to show us all the best tires! If the WRC is too fast, then you want to test some ultra cheap (most likely crappy stuff) like Linglong, Matator, Star Performer or Nankang and a refurbished King Meiler?
I've actually done a budget summer tire test, due out around feb :)
Great video. Hope you get to drive more rally cars soon
There maybe zero customer advice for me in this video (I never drive on snow in Poland), but boy, what a joy to watch. Happy to see you had so much fun and thank you for your work so far - it already helped me more than one time to bring my car to the best due to right choice of tyres. Happy New Year :)
Great video 👍🏻👌🏻 great driving
Thank you 👍
Never been any more enjoyable experience than driving a proper awd car on ice and snow ❄️🛞🏎
Congratulations!
Disagree with you saying this is bad viewing: it is absolutely brilliant; An otherwise well spoken, very competent driver being left with his brain fried because of the performance he's experiencing.
This coming from someone who's recently subscribed to your channel when looking to buy tires for my Subaru (Outback 3.6)but who's in the desert and maybe once every other year will see a light dusting of snow, all of this is so alien to me yet here I am entranced.
Oh, and to keep those who helped you with this video, I did indeed buy some Pirelli Scorpions (the AS 3 plus). You can tell them it was because of this video, that's allright haha.
Last year I bought new studded tyres for the first time and put them on RWD car. On snow and ice these tires were fantastic, they felt like summer tires on asphalt during the summer. It happens during the winter in our country temperature changes frequently above and below zero. But the studded tires on asphalt were ubearable. The noise and the vibration were huge to the point that I returned these tires to a shop. After checking they told me (and I have it in written) that tires are defect free. For this season I got a new set of super soft studless tires and I am happy driving with minimum noise and vibration although with the lower confidence on ice.
Brilliant vid. But yes, it does make sense - it's what they are designed to do with no compromise. Rallying is my hobby - mostly tarmac but the odd bit of gravel - never snow or ice - the difference between a tarmac rally tyre and a road tyre (or even a "semi slick") is the same as you highlight here - you really have to get your head round just how much grip you have - I look forward to a similar vid for tarmac tyres.
and he has one of the best cars ever to test this ! i miss mine really ! sti 2011 is just perfect
Thank you so much for that enjoyable video! I am a bit late, but still want to say my thanks and the best wishes for you for the new year, a growing channel and many, many more enjoyable videos from you and nice comments for you!
For a more common video, is it planned to do the Continental PremiumContact 7 for Summer Tyres?
Maybe you can also do a comparison between normal and suv Tires (e.g. I had that situation between WinterContact 870 and 870p).
Personally I am driving a XC70 MY 07 with 215/60 R17 and a V70 MY 08 205/55 R16. Since I know your videos your are actually 100% my source for information while going after my personal driving style and my very special road profile (85% highway, 10% overland, 5% town often towing). You have all kind of information like suv/offroad tires for my xc70 and my v70 can always profit from the normal summer/winter tire reviews.
So great to learn from you and see you enjoy your job! Must be the best feeling!
"I don't care about the car, I care about the tires." SO glad to hear you say that. I'm one of tjose weirdos who has two sets of rims for his car. One for dedicated summer tires and one for winter tires.
That wasn't exactly what I would call a "review".... but I still enjoyed watching it! 😄
that's pure joy right there
Could you please do a test on all season or winter tires to determine what the best pressure is to maximize snow traction?
I went to a rally school, but in the south of the UK there sadly isn't a need for tyres like that! Might have to get myself over to Finland...
Merry Christmas Jon, I feel sorry for anyone buying you Christmas presents who had to compete with this 😄
If you can afford it, do it. That said there's nothing wrong with rally on dirt too, so much fun!
@@tyrereviews I'm sure I can find the funds in the next couple of years, got to be worth a road trip across Scandinavia anyway! Rally on dirt is indeed fun, just a shame motorsports even at the lowest level are pricey to get into...
nice! did you happen to bring a G meter with you? i'd love to see a comparison between all season, all weather, winter, studded winter, and those awesome rally tires.