Roxane Gay: Confessions of a bad feminist | TED
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- Опубліковано 21 чер 2015
- When writer Roxane Gay dubbed herself a "bad feminist," she was making a joke, acknowledging that she couldn't possibly live up to the demands for perfection of the feminist movement. But she's realized that the joke rang hollow. In a thoughtful and provocative talk, she asks us to embrace all flavors of feminism - and make the small choices that, en masse, might lead to actual change.
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Just looking at the comments and the number of dislikes makes me wonder how any these people can be subscribed to TED and not acknowledge what an excellent talk this was. It was brilliantly executed and enlightening with a touch of humour.
Only that she is saying that women are superior to men and accusing us to not alowing them to have the same rights as men when, in reality , they do
Allowing
elky360
I agree it was a pretty good talk. I enjoyed it.
A good speech doesn't make a good opinion though.
When I was younger I supported feminism. But the good days are over, when it was actually a pro-social movement instead of the anti-social movement that it has evolved to.
Things change, and with that change we also need to change our view of these things. Feminism now is not feminism back in the day. Nowadays it's being abused as a destructive movement that swipes the roots of the real problems under the rug and creates a barrier between genders. It has become a platform for bad social engineering.
elky360 "Brilliant" and "enlightening"? These words have lost all meaning, it seems.
elky360 Talking about 'inclusive feminism' as bad feminism. Being unable to differentiate between fantasy and reality in something like Game of Thrones. Talking about hating half of the earth's population being an OK thing to do.
Sure. Brilliant. Whatever you say. This is the road to gender equality, surely.
Intelligent, witty, and critical. Loved this :) It's unfortunate that the negative comments are proving her point about feminism still being perceived as something to be ashamed of, rather than celebrated.
I'll make it very short, I'm a 20 years old man and I consider myself a feminist, for the simple reason that is I believe Women and Men should be equals.
And it irritates me to see all the dislikes and negative comments generally by Men, complaining about this cause appellation being too sexist (according to some), or others talking about how feminazis hate on Men... Etc
Really 2015 people?
Ray Madein Feminists want equality of outcome which is impossible in a meritocracy and capitalist world.
I'm pretty disgusted that in a talk about feminism, equality and acceptance so many comments focus on Roxane's body as if that's any of their business/a problem/relevant.
***** No because no human (including Roxane) has a mass or density to create any kind of significant gravitational force. But more importantly why do find the need to try and be disrespectful like that?
Exerting effort typing in a joke about somebody's weight is trying, Also Natalia Kills would not be happy. You talk about it playing on a relationship as if it's an intellectual exercise when it's clearly not and I'm pretty sure land whales is used as an offensive term for people who are fat. And I can very clearly see you have a problem with feminism.
1. If that's true that's pretty unfortunate (aside from the fact it's people just getting defensive over feminism so choose to pick on a woman's body) they're like all the same joke 2. Whilst I appreciate debate etc. this seems like a pretty rude way to respond to someone making a comment on people being unnecessarily offensive and homophobic (I'm guessing you knew that but it's only a guess). 3. (This isn't a trick question I'm actually curious) Do you think writing these comments is morally 'good', 'bad' but you enjoy something about it, or you don't really care?
Zebarbas Ok I appreciate the sentiment here being based around health but disagree with what you're saying. Firstly one of the things I said is that it's not relevant and that statement is not wrong. But I have to say we don't know about Roxane's health or what she does or doesn't do so mostly what you're saying is based on her appearance. But ok maybe her being overweight is causing her health problems (it might be probable) are you implying she's unaware of her body? I assume she likely gets regular health check ups or knows roughly what problems she may or may not. Also no one is telling anyone not to be healthy but be comfortable with your body and she is not advertising being overweight (unless you have a problem with it on principle and make a habit of snatching fatty foods, cigarettes and alcohol out of people's hands wherever you see them, in which case you might have a problem) . On another note (aside from it not being relevant or productive) making jokes about somebodies weight on the comments section of youtube can't be disguised as 'helping someone's health' no matter how hard you try.
Zebarbas I never said it was right to make jokes of drug users either though. And what should create the idea that it's bad to be a 'junkie' is the potential physical or mental health implications not jokes. Also as I implied we encourage people to live a healthy life style but that doesn't mean that we need to berate those that don't although as I said before we don't know how healthy or unhealthy Roxane is, she could be just as healthy as anyone else and if she's not she's responsible enough to control her own lifestyle and know what's good or bad for her.
And yes in part the comments are an attempt and devaluing her work but I would say that it is far more frequent that people tend to go straight or a woman's appearance in cases they wouldn't for a man (or possibly default insults of sexual promiscuity).
(btw are 'fat people in denial' really a thing?)
How are y'all missing the point THAT MUCH?
She's making fun of the notion of being a "bad feminist" because of something frugal like liking pink or engaging in anything very feminine or very masculine. Because in the end feminism isnt about liking feminine things more than masculine things or vice versa-- it's about equality.
THAT'S WHAT SHE'S SAYING.
.nsg. thank you! The comments on this video are so ignorant about feminism
.nsg. post modern feminism has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with female chauvinism.
Ryan thanks for clearing up that you ALSO missed the point. so enlightening.
.nsg. WELL THANK GOD SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS
Do women truly want equality?! It seems superiority i what they're striving for; so their whole position is hypocritical.I believe everyone should have equal opportunities Feminists, however are given to belittling men and, in the process women too.
This would have been a great talk...
In 1968.
Waltham1892 Some people are still living in 1968 :P
Ruth Tupe And I'm one of them, which is how I know this would have been a great talk in 1968.
Never thought I'd see you here XD
This is relevant still. I recommend watching Daria, that show is relevant and woke af.
And she's a "bad feminist" because she likes to have fun sometimes. ffs
Did you listen?
@@annehorstmann4266 Yes, and we see today the results of such thinking. Do you ever reflect on your ideology?
This is a VERY important talk. Judging by the comments below, we need to see more like it.
Troll
Sean Lumly Hi.
Miranox Hello. :)
Kristoffer Johnsen It works to stop these morons too, you can pretend that's what he means 8)
Sean Lumly Please, i need see more feminists discrediting themselves by spouting nonsensical drivel with no evidence to support it.
You all seem to be missing the point of this talk. It is thought provoking in the sense that it challenges the idealized and "perfect" feminism we force onto feminists. Roxane Gay is simply trying to force us to think about what it means to find pleasure in culture deemed "anti-feminist," and how ridiculous that is, because it is everywhere. Rather than punishing ourselves (and others) for enjoying these things, we should be rallying together and fighting for systemic change.
Hello, I am an anti-feminist. The reason I am anti is because I believe more then haft or the 4th wave feminists are sexist tired men and promote statio types against men. It's not because I'm some sort of sexist man or privlaged idiot. It's because I think feminism is sexist it self. It bright down international men's day, made a movement deemed 'kill all men', it made up lies to the public, it's making young woman hate all men, it's make good masculinity die in our society. And there is more it's doing wrong. That is why I'm anti feminist.
Wow, she is such an eloquent speaker! This quickly went from a TED Talk to a poetry recitation.
Reader.
Correction: Confession of (just) a feminist.
this was in equal part breathtakingly eloquent, empowering, hilarious, well-timed, and eye-opening. Well done X 1,000
Everything from 9:30 on is so powerful! I love that people like her keep on telling their stories so that they can help others find their voice again as well. Thank you :)
Her book Bad feminist has been a game changer in my life.
Thank your Ms for your work.
8:00 _Starts rant about how women spend their money_
Since the vast majority of money women spend around the world came from their husbands, maybe women should strive to contribute more to heterosexual relationships by earning more and spending less. That would go a long way to contribute to the equality of society---but I doubt that is going happen anytime soon.
zz773 Annnnnd it comes from their husband because ?
Because society still thinks that they should be raising the children and because society still thinks that they can't handle higher responsibility jobs.
BOBOUDA Totally incorrect. Women have had the advantage in this nation for decades. There are more CEO women than men now. Women and minorities use that same delusional excuse of submission to justify mediocrity. It's a joke! Women have the freedom to do anything a man can do; those who fail CHOOSE failure.
silverstorm1000
I never said anything about me being better than most women because I am a man---as I only made general observations about how society works--but since you continually want to make this about me I will say that I am better than most women because of the accomplishments I've made in my personal life.
So if you get a boyfriend who pulls in 70K or even 150K a year, you will try to match him? If he makes 100K doing construction then you will do the same? Good. That's exactly what I was advocating. BTW that would make you a tiny minority because most women don't do that.
Tori A Tori, since the late 60's, women have had equal opportunity in the labor market. Their successes are their own choice. And I'm glad you brought up minorities. They have an ADVANTAGE. They are given scholarships for their race and they are given occupational positions (many times unqualified for) due to legal obligations to meet minority quotas. I guess I fail to see your point as to how women or minorities are suppressed in our culture... it seems to me like you have every opportunity to succeed, but only those 5% had the ambition.
77MAG can you cite some resource about more female CEO's? I don't disbelieve you, just curious
Don't mind the thumbs down, watch it at judge for yourself, it's not a bad talk just controversial it seems. Though I don't really see what all the hate is about. Funny and human it is.
ProfessorBorax
It's disliked because this isn't really TED content. This is the kind of drivel I'd expect from a TEDx event, but I shouldn't expect this from the main channel.
***** Maybe so, but looking at the comments it seems people are stuck on the word feminist, thinking it means setting women higher than men rather than on equal terms-the later of which they would have another name for... These people are then probably blinded to the nuance of her speech which is really quite interesting.
ProfessorBorax
Of course they're stuck on the word feminist. This is a channel for Technology, Entertainment, and Design. This presenter doesn't really fit into any of those categories. Judging by the audience, this presentation was probably at a TEDwomen conference, and that explains the lack of any actual TED-worthy content here (not because they're women, because it ISN'T from TED).
So, does this content belong here? Once again, it's all in the name. Is this Technology? Nope. Is it Design? Nuh-uh. Is it Entertainment? It is subjective, but I wasn't particularly entertained (compare this with the pianist or the beatboxer).
If it fails all three, then it's really not worthy content here. In fact, I'd wager the ONLY reason she got a slot was because she is a feminist, and I imagine that's what has everyone worked up.
Basically, ANY of the subset TEDx conferences aren't well received on the main channel because most of them don't adhere to the format many of us expect from TED. The feminist ones just happen to be more frequent than the other ones.
Yea I listen to the podcasts too, but just because that's just the name (and if you go by that I think it's not at all representative, is should me Science Education Design Sensation), What ted promotes is "Ideas worth spreading" and somebody thought this was one.
ProfessorBorax This wasn't even an idea though. It was just someone documenting their experience. It wasn't even an exciting experience, it was just a "meh" experience.
This presentation was just... eh. And no, I don't think "Sensation" should be there. I honestly couldn't care about what people FEEL as an exclusive subject. If it were TECH that could show us how people feel, or effective design that could change how you feel, maybe.
But if someone feels sad, or inadequate, or like a "bad feminist", that REALLY isn't worthy of ANY kind of conference in my eyes, much less a TED conference.
Unsubscribed. This is the last stupid fucking BS I'm taking from TED.
realnarutoboy What was wrong with Monica Lewinsky?
realnarutoboy So what the papers wrote about her wasn't bullying?
Adult George Bush's actions affected many people's lives directly. Lewinsky was a young twentysomething who fell in love and openly admits to making a mistake, and affected nobody's lives directly. Don't you think they're slightly different?
***** What would you define bullying as?
realnarutoboy I'm not sure what your point is. She chose to have an affair, true. The vicious mockery ahead wasn't something her young mind was aware of. She still deserved it, even though affairs happen All The Time?
No doubt all the comments and dislikes on this video will just be taken as proof as to why feminism is neccessary. :/
alienzen Creationists think the same way about themselves. That mentality won't help either of them become a majority though.
alienzen "No doubt all the comments and dislikes on this video will just be taken as proof as to why feminism is neccessary."
Because "The more wrong you think I am, the more right I actually is!".
Feminist logic for ya :)
Lewis law is a bunch of baloney that can be discredited using direct substitution:
Replace feminism with Nazism, Creationism, Religion etc...... You get the hint.
I really admire Roxane Gay's ability to make her points in such a funny and thought-provoking way! Thanks TED for giving this amazing woman a platform!
onecookiefantasy To continue ripping the rest of a great society apart. I can't wait until we hit the bottom. Its going to be a blood bath.
Her voice is so calming. Now reading Hunger, so good. 💜
Hunger is a horrible book. I just got done reading it she is nothing but complaining. Taking responsibility for her weight gain doesn’t mean she can just keep complaining while not reaching out for help and rejecting help even though she knows she breathes heavy after walking or her high blood pressure
The other comments here are right. Someone even pointed out that it's disgusting someone shames themself over not living up to a label.
Feminism is a religion. Feminism literally acts as a religion in every single possible way.
From a broad look, It makes bold, unsupported claims and then shames anyone who doesn't agree and abide by them.
Think about it.
Feminism tells you aspects of your normal human sexuality are bad, and you deserved to be shamed for having them. "How dare you think of me sexually?" "How dare you be turned on by this?"
Feminism tells you what you have to do in your life to not be a bad person. Don't be a housewife. Don't try to talk to strangers. Don't spread your legs. Don't be subservient. Not only should you not act subservient, but if you even think so, you are brainwashed and naive according to feminism.
Feminism claims everything is out to get you and is against you (patriarchy). According to feminism, the only way to prevent that is to be a feminist. If you are not, you are the problem.
Feminism takes things that make people happy (jokes) and attacks them by spinning them by logical recognition.
Feminism actively attempts to shame anyone who does not agree with their tenants or claims with nonsensical accusations. Rape supporter, misogynist, bigot, racist, narcissist, anti women.
Feminism has many lying, crooked, greedy, power hungry preachers (anita Sarkisian) who continuously pump out fodder for feminists to bend and re use at will. These preachers are only out for money.
Feminism is literally in any useful modern definition of the word, a religion. It acts as a religion in every sense.
Allmywhat NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.
She just said that she doesn't care about how a woman lives given that this lifestyle is due to a free choice.
What is the problem actually?
Just think of it simply : if you think people shouldn't be judged by their gender, you are feminist. So yeah. If you're not, I would say you're a jerk. But just like if you told me that you think skin color should be a determining factor for someone's place in society.
Just stop here.
And yes, women are "opressed" in a way. Have you ever been on a party at night? If so, you should know that every woman is afraid of getting back home alone : that's being "opressed" (even if I'd say this word is indeed a bit strong, the most important thing isn't vocabulary in this case).
Cirrus Bim Do you think that men are always safe when they get back home alone at night from some party? Have you ever been mugged or beaten by a gang somewhere in the alley? And men are way more likely to be a victim of such things.
Allmywhat I'm glad i'm not the only one of noticed, my fellow youtuber.
If you're reading this and have your doubts, I suggest you: Talk to a radical feminist, inquire them, be a skeptic with their beliefs, and then to the same with a religious fundamentalist. If you have at least the average critical thinking, the similarities will surprise you, I'm quite certain.
So how did you guys manage to get Jupiter to speak?
Hahah!! This is the first comment. UA-cam everyone!!!
DrVunderbahr too bad that's the only thing this talks makes you think about. that reveals much about your personality
I'm glad that you're so confident in yourself. not sure if you're really dominating here :D you don't seem to be very eloquent
VronVieh don't have to be when my opponent uses text smilies on UA-cam.
DrVunderbahr wow, im you're opponent, haven't looked at it like that since we're just writing, funny. If you're single arguments now are two points and a D with a friendly meaning, you clearly don't know what else to say and I was right about you not being very eloquent
Gay's debates with Christine Hoff Sommers were disgraceful. She was a condescending diva that constantly leveraged her race and gender as rhetorical devices rather than actually saying something compelling. She was openly disrespectful of Sommers.
Wow. I am so horrified by 95% of these comments. Do you guys just hear the word "feminist" and feel compelled to mindlessly spout off whatever uninformed drivel you obsessively consume on reddit and 4chan?
lyradii What makes you think people are mindless? Why belittle the experience and knowledge of others? I suggest you read what people say and also what feminist people and organizations in power actually do and how society is effected.
lyradii You're horrified? Poor you, let me give you an extra right so you may feel less of a victim!
Now, in all of seriousness, just because you don't agree with people does not mean they're wrong.
No, we listen to the ridiculous things feminists say, like this woman has. You realize we're responding to a fairly lengthy video and not just some billboard emblazoned FEMINIST, right?
This is a wonderful speech! I too am stuggeling with the expectations of being a feminist. I will try to accept that I am only human when I do not uphold my values and do my best upholding them whenever I can. Thank you!
You mean, you will uphold them when it suits you and when it doesn't will not bother...oki.
You are not alone
From what I have seen, a 'BAD' Feminist would be one who is actually FOR truth, justice and equality.
Yeah there are so few bad feminists out there. we need more of those.
I haven't watched the video yet but judging by the comments and dislikes I can tell that this is gonna be interesting
jimmy johns It isn't, it's tiresome.
lol yea I quit watching after the first two minutes
A nice talk, full of sarcasm, great criticism of radical feminism, and a good appeal to women to not set themselves up to impossible standards. Fair enough, I thought. And then I scrolled down.
Such a high rate of dislikes shows how neo-conservative trends have grown in the last 10 years, and how liberals are failing to respond.
As I've been doing in the last TEDs in which I've seen people complaining about TED even addressing social/political topics: 16 talks on my youtube recommendations. 4 on political/social issues. The rest on psychology, design, medicine, space exploration, robotics, programming... So, reality check: TED is talking about more subjects, and not less about its original subjects.
On a side note, for those who for some reason took years to find out TED is a liberal left wing organization, congratulations. Now deal with it.
Zebarbas I wonder how is it possible (outside of very specific niches) for liberals or for the left to be against feminism. Radical feminism, sure. Feminism in general, nope.
In the case of this woman, she is a feminist who criticises radical feminism (as most feminists actually do). How can it be viewed as spreading lies or being specially self-centered? It's just a logical thing to do.
Julia Linne Feminism is a totalitarian ideology so no wonder liberals "fail" to respond...
Stig Helmer What feminism? Enlighten me, please. Saying feminism is totalitarian is worse than saying all socialism is stalinism, or that all capitalists are neo-liberal retards. Be specific.
Julia Linne The feminism we experience on a day-to-day basis which is often referred to as "radical feminism". Although, I'm not sure there are any feminist denomination who is compatible with what we typically call liberalism.
Stig Helmer Mmm... Maybe you've not had any experience with radical feminists: those who shun the existence of transgenders, advocate female supremacy, talk about "contemporary women's moral obligation to be lesbian", and other equally... anthropologically interesting, albeit intellectually challenged ideas.
Day-to-day feminism is usually about more reasonable issues. Equal pay, equal education, broader cultural standards of feminine behaviour and roles, equal civil rights in places where it's not equal yet, etc. There's not much to complain about mainstream feminism, really, mainly because most of what it aspires has already been incorporated as common sense in western societies. What remains is to deconstruct tradition and apply this historically new common sense to social praxis.
I'm so grateful for her!
Very neoliberal and superficial: feminism-as-identity, and feminism-as-lifestyle. Which inevitably gives rise to "am I a good enough feminist?", "is that woman singer a feminist?" And enables her to ignore more meaningful questions such as "what does the project of liberating women require?" and "which are the structural factors most centrally involved in oppressing women?"
And, of course, Gay indicates she sees the masses (oppressed) not as the people who will make the most meaningful changes in our society, but as people who need to nudge the powerful few to make those changes. So, not even a pretence of wanting to overthrow the current ruling order.
An exploration of *why* debates over 'is Beyonce a feminist' are so popular, or an examination of the reasons we focus so much on pop culture and the most successful women within it, might be more fruitful than what almost seems like covert reinforcement of the misogynist myth that feminists are a powerful force who determine what people can and can't like ...
Yep.
Perfectly said, G Brown.
Overthrowing the current ruling order would never work, basic game theory.
The government gets their power from a stable economy which they can tax.
Causing a rebellion would collapse the economy.
No economy means no tax money.
No tax money means the rebel group could not maintain effective control.
Also, I do agree with your first and third paragraphs.
I wish I could give this talk more than one thumbs up. From a fellow brown girl and "bad feminist". ☺
So proud to have Roxane Gay's voice & ideas representing a faction of Feminism & a faction of Liberalism. Have no doubt that that Feminism is as much a classic political idea as democracy.
This is actually really nice and funny. I think the downvotes are unjustified.
ThePunkyDuck You shouldn't spend so much effort arguing in UA-cam comment sections. Reasonable discussion is not what these comment sections are for and trying to have one here is a waste of time.
Karlo Schallibaum I'm pretty sure that's a troll and that's a copy-pasta but I might be wrong, this person might just be an idiot.
Sad, but true
Karlo Schallibaum People see "feminist" and they immediately downvote. The term is so toxic people refuse to listen to anyone who claims to be one.
HandjesBreda a lot of people do listen. we can't help it if so much of the things a lot of feminists come out with is unsubstantiated drivel. there are feminist who actually know what they are talking about, like the factual feminist, who don't get a lot of hate. except for from other "feminists"
She sounds like a repentant sinner at a Sunday service. She says she's a bad feminist because she enjoys music and art that are not created solely for the purpose of promoting women. Like a Christian feeling guilty about listening to non-Christian Rock music or watching a movie void of the promotion of Jesus as everyone's personal saviour. Can you be s good human being and watch non feminist movies? Can you be an egalitarian while still enjoying snoop dog? Yes. But apparently feminism has no tolerance for nuance and no appetite for deserting opinions and thoughts.
Dissenting. Sorry, Auto-correct.
I think that's the point, right? the fact that feminism is missing the real problem?
This is an inspiring and beautiful speech, about the contradictions with in ourselves as feminist.
My God ...she said just what I was thinking since I was 11. Love you. Thank you.
That's the age you were brainwashed from, huh?
@@elisays258 probably :(
SO wonderful. Thank you, Roxane.
My face is tired. I'm gonna start facepalming other people.
I like architecture, engineering, science and design. TED is great. It is good to hear from feminists as well, even if we aren't feminists.
This was great!
I really like the way she talks for some reason
So soothing
I don't think you are a bad feminist Roxane :) I think the narrow-minded, militant and constantly externalizing and blaming ones are the bad ones. I think feminists like you should get more attention, and those who yell so loudly should get less. Good job Roxane :)
thank you TED for posting this video. thank you so much.
Very good presentation.
The comments on this video just reinforce the necessity of feminism for gender equality
In this case, yes, it does reinforce the necessity of feminism. When the majority of comments are about this woman's weight and so many are so angry. What is wrong with gender equality??
realnarutoboy
Well in teh feminist circle all must agree and conform. The safe space must be maintained at all costs.
Feminism: the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of equality of the sexes. Why do you think people even bother being feminists then?
Ana King
Your logic is flawed. I could ask why people bother joining the KKK. People joining a movement is not proof the movement is positive.
Ana King So feminism is necessary because a lot of people disagree with it?
She is wonderful! I'm so glad I got to hear her talk. Beautiful lady. Inspiring words.
Lwydius That was said tongue-in-cheek. Come on, you know there are plenty of men WORTH hating, for the way they treat women. Not all. But some. And making a joke that recognizes the right to be angry about awful truths is fair. That isn't hypocrisy at all.
She's just making the point that women shouldn't have to pretend to never be angry at men (or angry at all) to maintain this illusion of "perfect, nice womanhood". You can be angry about some things, yet still be a nice person.
Actually, if you never get angry about some awful things, you cannot be a nice person. Some things require moral people to feel angry.
Lwydius It isn't the same thing to reverse the genders, because the genders and their relevant power aren't equal. That's the point of feminism, is a wish for the power of all people to be equal, and for women not to be considered as less than men.
If you think both genders do share equal power, you are possibly well intentioned, but honestly not paying attention. As long as the inequality exists, the cries of those with less respect, less voice, less perceived value will always be rightfully raised in protest, and it is a (cruel and pathetic) joke to imagine it should be otherwise.
Lwydius The fact that you believe women are not systemically less privileged than men, and you imagine that is only my "opinion" means you haven't really looked fairly at the issue.
If she was actually poking fun at a less-privileged group, yes that would be horrible. BUT SHE'S NOT. Men are not less privileged than women, they remain (as they have always been) MORE privileged. Therefore, it isn't inappropriate for her to make such jokes.
Marialla Hah! Nice dodge; I will reiterate.
How about this then: "... because I believe I am equal, huh, superior, to men." - not a joke and in her opening statements. Let's do another word play: "...because I believe I am equal, huh, superior, to black men."
Now tell me that is not straight up bigotry. Wait, I need to stretch before the mental gymnastics begin.
Which leads me back to the half-point you actually did address: Can show me a single right that men have that women don't? Can you give me a just one example of systemic, sanctioned discrimination towards, or oppression of, women in today's western world? Just one... Here I'll give you some counter examples.
1) Men receive 60% longer jail sentences (for exactly the same crimes) as women.
2) Men pay more taxes, but men's health receives less government funding than women's (egregiously so)
3) 'Women only need apply' job advertisements are commonplace (and apparently not discriminatory)
So, just one example. Just one. I would caution; beware the pay gap, go there at your own peril.
Lwydius First of all, it would help if you'd do me the honor of believing I am both sincere, and actually a good person trying honestly to answer your points. I'm not a troll, and I'm not in this for mere wordplay. Ok? I'm not in this to "beat" you at argument, I'm just trying to share my viewpoint if you're open minded enough to care. All right.
You don't seem to quite grasp that a woman poking fun at a man isn't discrimination because men have more power overall than women do. Maybe you just don't see it because that has never been your focus to try to see it. But if you want to make a fair example of something that WOULD be discrimination, change her race to white, then have her joke about being superior to blacks in general or black women specifically. THAT would be an example of someone of higher privilege "punching down" on someone with lesser privilege, and so THAT would be bigotry and discrimination. If a black person makes fun of a white person, that's not discrimination because minorities like blacks systemically have less power than whites. There may not even exist any more any laws which sanction, legalize, or systemically oppress blacks anymore, but the holdover from when it WAS legal has not yet been balanced out. Blacks and other minorities are still not truly equal to whites because whites have had centuries of privilege to get ahead, and even though many of those legal distinctions and privileges have been removed, blacks are starting from a position of being far behind whites in many areas such as housing, financial security, and general prejudice that still exists in people's minds.
In the same sense, women have forever been considered less worthy than men, and until quite recently also had far fewer legal rights. Even if those legal rights have mostly been addressed, they still hold a place of disdain in many people's minds, and that prejudice comes out in subtle ways to restrict many women's freedom to grow into her true potential. I'm not saying ALL, any more than I'm saying ALL blacks are discriminated against by ALL whites, but there is a significant portion of the population that does feel that way and it does cause problems,
In situations where a discriminated group is given a helping hand by directed hiring practices (for example), that is not an example of privilege, it is an example of a tiny chance to begin to narrow the privilege gap that the main group has enjoyed for so long.
완벽하지 못한 정체성 때문에 고민하던 나에게 시험 문제의 답지와 같은 해답을 준 강연이었습니다. 오늘은 아직 나쁘더라도 내일은 좀더 나아질거라는 용기가 생겼어요.
당신의 이야기를 들려줘서 고마워요♡
I found myself clapping along with the audience twice! Well put Roxane Gay!
Why would you need a label to defend values? Why would you ever need to be called (or fear to be called) a feminist? Just defend the values you believe in, and let other people worry about how to call you.
I liked the part where Gay won over all the skeptical men in the audience. Oh wait, she was only preaching to other feminists who were coincidentally all women. Come on TED, isn't that sexist to not have a balanced audience of both genders? "Men should refuse to work for companies until there is a more equal representation of women" - Gay says to an audience completely comprised of women.
Thank you!
Love the talk, hate the comments. I guess this is only something people involved with feminism in REAL LIFE understand: the expectations of the group vs the person you are inside regardless of your human rights' stance; and how the opposing side is a part of this.
Shouldn't this garbage be on TEDx??
Go cry somewhere else.
***** you got me.
+Titus Orelius Yes, this garbage should be on TEDx. It's TEDx Women (or should be). It is not the main TED talk, but TED does not make that distinction here, making any casual viewer perceive it as an actual TED talk, devaluing their main brand.
Aaaaaand... unsubscribed.
Ganesha Same.
Ganesha why?
Ganesha why exactly?
Jake let me change my name Dagger back to normal Exactly.
so now you're degrading mentally disordered people, kids and every TEDx event. would you be so kind to justify what it is exactly that makes you dislike this talk?
🙏🏽 perfect talk
"I'm full of contradictions."
As most people are. At least she's aware and ready to make changes toward accepting all sorts of what a "Feminist" could be. It's an ugly "F" word at the moment, and deserves to stay that way until the mass of feminism is gunning for equality of the sexes. Not just raising one gender to where we perceive the other to be.
It's not up or down. It's a spectrum and each person is somewhere different on it. Your race or gender does not matter, it's what goes through your head that makes you what you are. The zealots from each side need to realize they're fighting the same war, but have demonized their greatest allies.
We need each other to make equality work.
Loved her from the first second
the game of thones mention is a little odd, how else can you made a show in that time without showing how the treated woman O.o
On some issues I consider myself feminist but the talks like these I think hurt feminist movement.
based on medieval times...
Stephen Marston Exactly. George writes it to portray reality of war and that kind of time, the brutal and harsh realities. I wonder how many feminists put down the books after reading too many sentences about sexual violence. Only when it's become a hit TV show and in the public eye can you slander it to make a cheap hit.
see i do agree that it's bad , but woman sign up to do it ?
Plus i don't think it's bad showing how bad portraying a woman in the medieval times as how it was. now don't get me wrong i'm all up for equality. but when a show is trying to be historically accurate ( in the time) then you can't not show things like this.
i don't know. it's a odd topic really. woman love game of thrones as much as men , so it's not like MEN demand it or anything
No one enjoys the rape scenes and sexual violence, it's uncomfortable, but it is an element of the show from the books that adds to the historical accuracy, and the brutal realities that it's not always a good ending, the prince doesn't always get the princess, the heroes die, the women got raped. A Song of Ice and Fire is an intricate story kind of like an anti-fairytale, set in another universe based off our own.
Thanks
Aaaaannnnndddd any shred of credibility TED had remaining just got flushed down the dunny.
Such a promising start only to fizzle out.
I love this woman so much!!! Thank you for sharing all your wonderful insights
This was SO amazing, she's my new hero! This is exactly what I've always felt like.
So funny... I had just started reading her book Bad Feminist a little while ago XD
Thank you ❤
Awesome video!! Dear Roxane Gay you have this feminist guys support!!
Beta
You can have anything you like. Just don't take game of thrones away.
Vaibhav Gupta aaaand she's gone nuts.
Vaibhav Gupta I didn't understand why she said that about G,O,T there allot of strong female characters there's Brienne of Tarth Araya Stark Ygritte and Olenna Redwyne Daenerys Targaryen
beckchasewolfe She said it because feminists will find a way to skew absolutely fucking anything in a 'sexist' light.
lambd01d I really don't know where this talk was going maybe I just heard it wrong But I felt like this speech was contradicting it self IDK
I loved it! No now typical TED weepy background music or quaint acted out bits bullshit. Sincerity like that is disarming.
I thought the lyrics to the ying yang twins song was "calf muscle hurt" not "camel starts to hurt". Am I wrong?
Not a criticism, it's only a small mistake, and I'm not even sure I'm right.
wow I felt her every words, I loved her speech and I'm gonna read her books, thank you Roxane Gay for being a brave bad feminist.
It actually blows my mind how aggressive the reactions are to a completely non-aggressive speech. Whether you agree with it or not.
How can you pull her up on man-hating when you react so abusively to this video??
You have every right to disagree with her, but it's not hard to put an opinion out there without being nasty.
What do you mean? 7.1k likes vs 2.6k That doesn't seem like much of a negative backlash to me?
@@Luka1180 She's just whining senseless. Y'know, typical feminist stuff.
Her speech had and undertone of clear man hate.Men built and invented everything you use on a daily. Now go to sleep thinking that
She has aggressive opinions. She hates men all together and it shows in her books and comic books. She is a bad person with aggressive opinions.
@@seds94 Men also beat their wives apparently. Now sleep thinking about that.
This was great
She is just so amazing and reassuring and comforting...
좋은 영상 감사드립니다
The way she expresses herself is amazing! I found it very inspiring and relatable.
YES!
Beautiful.
If she actually had watched or read Game of thrones, instead of being a typical victim feminist (not all feminists are this way) and referring to it to point out how women are so badly treated, then she would see that yes the world of westeros and essos is a cruel place for women, as its a fictional world, but the writer put characters in his novels that challenged that world, strong women, who refuse to be what the world and society wants them to be, Arya Stark, Brienne, Daenerys are all strong women written within the novel to challenge the conditions that they live in, using Game of thrones as example of sexism because its got bewbs, without acknowledging the complexity of the characters and particularly some of the female ones is ridiculous, i take it she doesn't have enough time to watch the show, and only time to complain and how she is treated in the big bad world.
excellent speech. my respect for this beautiful woman.
She's got a poisonous agenda using the "feminist" front. She's pure garbage.
Help and make a survey in this comment page? I want to know how many unsubscribed after this video, just reply "me" or "here".
What was the point of this video?
bean
I guess I'm not tired of nonsense.
"Preaching to the Choir"
By Roxane Gay
HAH GAY
So the bad patriarchy is oppressing the women by giving them less pay for the same jobs.
So why there are no companies that hire this cheaper and equally well educated workforce exclusively? I mean isn't it like half of the people in working age?! Surely many of those oppressed women would prefer to earn at least a bit more and work for a open-minded boss!
What do you say? "It's not 50%"? Hmm, right, because not as many go to colleges and earn engineering degrees. Oh, and they want more free time to take care of kids? But earn the same amount per annum?!
Feminism did it's job in the 20th century, now it's just lot of whining about being unable to slob all day and still earn a living wage.
I find most of the comments here shocking, as they are very aggressive responses to a thoughtful talk, in which Roxane Gay expresses her personal opinion in a peaceful and humorous way. She neither insults anyone, nor does she express a radical opinion. Yes, she pokes fun at herself and others in a provokative way, but I guess you have to be experienced in self-reflection to be able to recognize it in others. This is not a call for radicalism, it's a call for equality and inclusion. There is no need to get angry, because her "ideology" if you can call it that, isn't a threat to anyone. If you don't like feminism, fine, you're entitled to your opinion. You can make the irrational decision to unsubscribe based on one TEDtalk that presents a different opinion as yours. But please don't insult or degrade her, it takes great courage to stand up for what you believe in and to share your personal story with others.
brilliant
"i listen to thug rap but i demand that the music industry stops making thug rap even though it is the music i enjoy"
- feminist
Laughing Chinaman she’s admitting to her own humanity and is trying not to demonize the experience of enjoying that music, while recognizing the problematic issues of that music.
I hope this clears up your misconception, maybe try taking an English or writing class! Some sort of education would probably be good for you
i wonder why they dont invite christina hoff summers?
Because she's not a feminazi- she's an actual feminist working for the equality of women and men- not a power struggle.
There's no such thing as a feminist that actually works for gender equality. Feminism by its very nature is preferential to women and primarily women, a justified by the alleged privileged position that men have.
@@elisays258 Disagree with part of your comment.
There's nothing I said that is wrong and I'm curious which part lost you.
@@elisays258 I'm not lost, thanks. Feminists originally wanted to also be considered on an equal footing with men (males) in terms of workplace, basic human respect, etc...
That was their original intent. It has clearly spiraled downwards into a gross perversion of wanting to be _superior_ to men, of wanting to be in total control and to destroy "traditions" that they believe were put in place by the men of the old patriarchal systems, systems they believed were put in place in order to hold them down as women and make them second class (or worse) citizens.
I was shocked to read such ignorant and degrading comments by TED viewers. I thought most of them would be more intelligent and empathetic than what one can assume from the thoughts you can read in the comments. I liked the talk. It gave a little twist on the usual discussion of that topic, it was funny and I recognised many thoughts I had myself and could identify with her train of thought most of the times. Maybe she hasn't always found the exact right word, but in that context that can be forgiven.
This is so inspiring! I LOVE IT!! I'm a bad feminist too and I'm not ashamed of it. Thanks Roxane!
🤔🤔🤔🤔This is the same woman that said Sucide in men shouldnt b taken seriously, She is so oppressed isnt she😠😠😠,
She is very good at public speaking!
Yes, yes, and more yes.
A self-effacing and balanced talk.
TheGerogero If you mean "balanced to one side" I completely agree :) This talk is as balanced and equal as the U.S military going to war against a disabled child
TheGerogero Self-effacing? She's trying to legitimize feminism despite hypocrisy and contradiction. She's basically saying my failures shouldn't be indicative of a flaw in my argument!
Sahil Zubair i.e. ad hominem.
TheGerogero
If a feminist doesn't even care about the claims she makes enough to enforce them in her own life, how honest or realistic are they?
Sahil Zubair A logical fallacy, nonetheless.
I do think the word "feminist" gets overused. To me, "feminism" means anyone actively looking out for the interests of women in general. This can take the stereotypical man-hating form, or it can take the inclusive equality form, so long as the intent behind this activism is pro-women. However, I think a lot of people use the word "feminist" as a statement of belief, as in, "I do not think women should be treated as inferiors, therefore, I am a feminist." I don't think it's that simple. Feminism is a form of activism. I don't call myself a feminist, not because I see women as inferior, but because I am not an activist. If feminism were just a moral position, not requiring action, then almost everyone in the civilized world would be able to call themselves a feminist, making the word meaningless. It would make just as much sense to go around calling myself an "abolitionist," because I don't think we should own slaves.
Also, I should point out (and this goes for not just feminism, but any form of social activism) that clicking like and share on a meme does NOT count as activism.
i am trying to figure out why the audience only has women. did the men get blocked at the gate to this presentation? where is TED going now?
Bruce Wayne They couldn't find men willing to listen to that bullshit.
Bruce Wayne
Men were very likely not allowed. You know sexism is ok when it's against men right?
obviously, this shows men are not interested in gender equality:)
Love love love 💜
Roxane is wonderful!
My question is one that me and my brother both really wonder about this, the problem is many feminists say they stand for equality yet many of their statements many of their problems and solutions have women at their centre and are the only focus. 'Women have it rough because of men do this' is a recurring statement in soooooo many arguments for feminism and this is ridicule towards all men generalising them and saying men cause inequality. This is wrong right?
Sounds like the arguments you’re reading for feminism are incredibly outdated!!🤷🏻♀️
@@auroraeclipes i mean, this was 4 years ago.....
feminists are the type of people who just want any excuse to act like a hero and fight some injustice, but they are actually bullies, they hold some sort of resentment and want to take it out on others but they also don't want to be the villains so they need to create a noble reason to put others down.
Feminism is overall about gender equality. When feminists try to erase gender norms, that benefits men as well, because men aren't expected to conform to a stereotype based solely on their gender. Next, feminism focuses on problems that have women at their center, because these issues are caused by gender inequality. I don't know where you live or where you're from, but in America where I live, and in most countries of the world, women have not always been afforded basic human rights and dignity. Feminism focuses on women, because women often take the short end of the stick. There's also anger at men, who have more power in society, for not doing their part in fixing these issues. Instead, they take advantage of the advantages history has granted them, and do not allow space for more diversity in leadership. Even men who are not abusive, who are kind, who believe women should have equal rights, can contribute to the problem of gender inequality by being passive, when some women are dealing with gender-specific issues on a daily basis, and are not able to choose to be willfully ignorant. Hope this made sense.
The issue with how people regard feminism is the same issue that comes with how people regard any group. People are drawn towards pointing to the few extremists in a crowd of sane, level headed people, and shouting "Look! These modern feminists are a bunch of extremists who ruined feminism!"
I will admit that her man hating joke was a little inappropriate, but did you pay any attention to what was said afterwards? Instead of zeroing in on a flaw in an otherwise excellent speech, it would be beneficial to hear her all the way through and take away something from what she's saying. You're exemplifying the same hyper sensitivity that you claim to be one of the flaws in modern feminism.
And in regards to the comment about how TED has changed and gotten too political, it's important to understand that they have one ultimate goal: to spread ideas. That means anything from feminism to astronomy to a recalling of an adventure in Antartica. You are the one at fault for expecting something different from TED, not them.
As long as the "extremists" are the ones setting policy, in legislatures, in courts, in schools, and in media, they are the ones I will focus on. As far as I'm concerned the "sane, level-headed people" are just there so prevent people from seeing the damage being done.
"it's important to understand that they have one ultimate goal: to spread ideas."
Care to show me the anti-feminist ideas that they spread? They seem a little one-sided to me.
@@PvblivsAelivs What are anti-feminism ideas anyways ? Because if they are just sexist and misogynistic, then they are right to give that a platform.
Alo, no extremists feminists held office, not at any point have they ever. And most feminist characters tend to be ridiculed, so even that aspect of your argument makes no sense.
@@shaniceabdou910
Of course extremist feminists hold office. Denying a platform is the way totalitarians operate. If you have to silence people because you can't argue against their position, they are not the extremists, you are. And once you silence people so they can't defend against your claims, it's easy to label them as "sexist and misogynistic."
@@PvblivsAelivs Ever heard of the paradox of tolerance by Karl popper ?
Name one extreme feminist that held office ?
And you did not answery other questions about anti-feminist ideas.
@@shaniceabdou910
I've heard many excuses for "why we have to silence these people." The paradox isn't real. If you think it is, you are not tolerant to begin with. How far are _you_ from being willing to implement "the final solution"?
it was so nice😍😍😍😍😍
wow this is wonderful!