A Computer Cheater Crushed My Moller Attack
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2020
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In this video, I play a game against OliPro (1500?) in the Classical Shield Arena on lichess.org. The opening features a sharp line of the Italian Game (or Giucco Piano) known as the Moller Attack. About halfway through the game, it became evident that my opponent was playing in an eerily similar fashion to Stockfish. I generally don't like to draw attention to engine users, but the game was interesting and hopefully still has some instructive value.
Analyze the game here: lichess.org/lcxfPwIM
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„We‘ll see if my opponent knows theory.“
yeah, like of every recorded chess game ever played
conspiracy theorists
Even with masters, after 15 moves or so they are on their own. Maybe someone will be able to do a study if your first 15 moves were perfect every time, and then you took over yourself, how much would that add to your rating - I say less than 200 rating points once you are at least 1699. another thought experiment If a GM and a 1200 alternated moves against an 1800 player, without any chance to communicate during the game, what would the effective rating of the team be? (I suspect almost exactly the same as the weaker player)
@@CGoldthorpe after up to 30 moves man
@@CGoldthorpe there is also endgame theory not just opening theory
I meant to say +0.43 instead of +0.37 (NOT 9.43)
"Let's see if my opponent knows theory"
Stockfish: I AM the theory.
i laughed haha
Damn man
Underrated comment
*_"Grand Master has been purified"_*
Like Lahey said: I am the liquor
He didn't cheat. He just fell of the stairs and hit the back of his head while being struck by a lightning, thus becoming a genius for 20 minutes.
and also at the same time a kobra bit him and now he is kung fury
how did your comment got so many likes... it's so overrated
@@repp181 There is no reason to be jealous (or anything like that) of some likes on some random comment. Likes don't gain you anything except for a feedback whether people liked it. So the point of comments like this is to make people smile or even laught. If that worked for a lot of people that's a good thing.
@@darktechno8321 you have put to much energy on that reply. And it's not even good, like your previous comment.
@@repp181 LOL
"Let's see if my opponent knows theory."
Well yes, but actually no.
😂😂😂
Dont you mean, well no but actually yes?
Artina nope. He means exactly what he said:
“Well yes (he does know theory as evidenced by his chess moves), but actually no (the theory isn’t a product of his knowledge but a product of an engine)
Yesn’t
@demon shadow you said the same thing with different words
I love how he doesnt say the word cheater until the guy gets banned by lichess. I can tell he values humility and is conscious not to accuse too quickly.
Also, there might be legal consequences of calling someone a cheater if it isn't proved.
@@jonsirulesx9929 nah not against some random guy on the internet
You can tell he's a solid dude
@@jonsirulesx9929 legal nah. Not in a random online match.
An official match it could be considered slander though.
@@jonsirulesx9929 The Cyber Police will be informed.
Eric: “Some Possibility of Black Blundering” GM Stockfish: “Am i some sort of joke to you?”
Eric: "Let's see if my opponent knows theory"
GM Stockfish: "Yes"
@@diabl2master Technically, it could be a "no" as well. Without opening book and endgame tables, GM Stockfish can claim to know no theory, and yet crush any human being.
Dexter Baum what is it then? We ourselves have defined the titles and what ratings fall into each title the highest being GM. So if it were to have a standard title it would be GM. It might be vastly better but so is Magnus in comparison to other lower rates GMs.
@@haroldfinch582 Thing is, Stockfish can crush Magnus or any other human being, and that disparity is only going to grow in future, because computing power keeps growing, but the human brain doesn't - at least not as fast. Since Stockfish can always beat any human, you'd need a new title for him/her. Super GM doesn't cut it either - we've bestowed that (unofficially) on a few humans.
@@haroldfinch582 "god"
Lichess probably saw Eric resign and said "wait what? let's check that game out"
@Cat Everything with 1500? on classical and 1200 on rapid lol
it’s the rating difference combined with the result that gives it away hard
I do wonder how Lichess figures out that it's a cheater. I do think that taking 5 seconds for making the only legal move is a strong hint of something fishy. And of course such a strong player losing to a beginner.
@fasha77 yeah you can't exactly conclude without question that someone is a cheater based on rating difference and slow moves. They must have something else.
@@hvdveer, nobody plays a complicated game like that and only has a 10 centipawn loss.
Opponent: lookes up at the ceiling to magically see the pieces like Beth Harmon
Also opponent: has a projector pointing at the ceiling running stockfish
LMAO
me not yet into chess: "haha thats so silly"
me watching magnus carlsen play for the first time: "oh"
@@SorchaSublime magnus has a bunch of videos of him beating cheaters he doesn’t even directly accuse them just makes a joke and flags em
@@joshbowling5032 no i meant the beth harmon staring at the ceiling thing.
@@joshbowling5032 it's impossible to flag a cheater in a 10 minute game tho. Stockfish would eat your soul in 60-70 moves in the best case scenario, so cheater would need to make a move only every 10 seconds
I enjoy the vs cheater content, it's quite interesting watching a Master player’s normally foolproof plans and ideas just being crushed
Those cheaters are annoying people
What does your sentence mean?
Marco Jiménez they are still less annoying than Penguinz0 shitting on ben finegolds career
@@mothhunter2337 only relevant penguin in chess is Andrew Tang
@@alienwarex51i3 guess he's saying it's cathartic in a way to see someone so good become undone, even if it is by a computer. It's very ego satisfying
Ben Finegold: I mean, obviously he's cheating, that's just funny...
Eric Rosen: I feel like most of my opponent's moves were... were pretty flawless...
My favorite cheater response was Jerry (ChessNetwork) saying "Wow, this guy plays like a machine"
GoldenGaming12621 link?
@@oliviapg Which video was that?
Can you share a video of finegold playing a cheater?
@@BongelaMnguni His Twitch got taken down so for now the video is gone. I'll link you the clip when his account gets back.
Eric: My opponent is playing well
Stockfish: Thanks!
I love how Eric never directly says that he suspects/knows it's a cheater. during the game.
the next step for lichess should be a program that detects computer cheaters in real time and gives you a claim victory button, but instead of just a "you were cheating, you're banned" screen it makes them play out the rest of the game against alpha zero before banning them
I love this idea lol
Alpha zero is not an engine, it is a super computer from google. Even older stockfish versions were already capable of beating AZ, but ofcourse it only had 4 hours to practice. Without the hardware google uses alpha software would be pretty useless. Leela chess zero is already much better than alpha zero was but modern stockfish beats it consistantly most of the time. And even the best moves one could imagine could not win vs stockfish in an already winning position. Some faulty logic here.
They often detect cheats in real-time though... Midway through one game recently (playing black) a message flashed on my screen, reading "cheat detected black wins" the game terminated immediately and I was given the points as though I'd won.
@@Jartran72 i wonder what stock fish on those systems would be capable of. In, say, 1 game calculating a move per week. Using computers THAT powerful.
@@a2zk432 it only happens when player uses the lichess analysis board to cheat, which is obviously detected immediately
"H5 played so quickly" yeah stockfish thinks pretty fast bro 😂
I do think h5 there seemed obvious. however I don't think any 1200 level players would agree here...LOL
Bryan Black it's crazy. i've always known how to play chess but just started actually learning the game so i'm VERY bad and it's a lot easier to see moves when i'm not actually playing
@@2019inuyasha From other commenters, h5 is obvious to low ranked players but experienced players can see that it weakens your king. Stockfish don't care because he has all the calculations to protect the king anyway
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It’s actually really disheartening scrolling through the classical shield winner history and seeing how many accounts are now closed due to cheating
@13:45 "Black taking time here, yeah what to do." Nailed it.
It could be a sarcastic "what to do?" as in, what move should black make, which is obvious. But I think he means what should he do: resign and report immediately or play on
3:23 - Opponent offers a draw. It means he saw who you were and got scared LMAO
@@tgwalrus yeah I dunno why he wouldn't just take a loss vs a streamer lol, but cheaters use engines because they're not smart enough in the first place.
Oh
@@dantehowlstice3052 memorize theory = smart
it's shit, my opponent made several times a "draw" after the opening, I refused then later I won the game with as many coins suddenly I confused that my opponent wanted give up, I click too quickly on "draw"! :p
I dunno if he did lol like why wouldn't you turn your engine off and just play one game and get thrashed then use the excuse of oh I saw it was Eric rosen and I lost my cool rather than just expose you are hacking to everyone?
I think his engine probably just told him that he was down because he was playing black so he thought he'd offer a draw lmao
The Jerome Gambit translates into a binary bitstring that force stops Stockfish if it sees it.
Remember that for next time Eric
For real ?
larlitha sri vidhara Lol no
Beating the Jerome is like dividing 0.... Just not possible!
Jerome is an absolute monster
Not I just check with the stockfish and it's play normal and it's winning with black
It's hilarious so many cheaters in chess are really bad at cheating. Using the computer for every move and always take the same time. Perfect tells to make it obvious.
Good liars/cheaters don't get caught.
@@sensorcato Cheaters on physical boards "use the restroom"
@@sensorcato true. "Good" cheaters will most likely just use computer assistance modestly to get some edge. If their games correlate too much with the engines, they know it will look suspicious. Also, cheaters with some deeper understanding of the game probably avoid typical computer lines that humans rarely play.
The recent chessbrah video had a 99.3% accuracy and asked "what's a GM" in the chat 🤣🤣🤣
@@niveshproag3761 yeah I remember that lol. What's a GM lol...
13:39 - Guy takes 15 seconds to recapture something that any normal human would have premoved LMAO
if he had not been proven to have cheated, he could have been reviewing the game, waiting for eric to make a move
maybe stockfish wasn't responding so he has to restart the engine
Thats why every cheater even the smartest would caught cheating by Lichess
Now imagine a new GUI telling you when to premove. Crazy. It'll be a helluva lot harder to catch the cheaters.
that's idiotic you should be looking for other moves besides recapturing always
I hate people who make Happy Eric sad... his voice was sad whole game
yeah you could tell he knew something was up after about 6 moves
Bruh.
:( so sed
He’s so precious I want to protect him
@@jakeoswald8017 Baaarfffff !
At least Eric got his rating back...
And we could see an interesting game...
But the time spent playing against a cheater is lost forever.
@@kennethbarrientos3794 When you play a cheater, you are playing against computer. Considering how educative it is to play against a computer and analyse it afterwards, so it should not be that much of a waste of time I guess.
@@umutalp1517 Playing against a 3400+ ELO isn't any instructive as it has no style, plans or commit mistakes/inaccuracies, being guided purely by brute-force calculation. Even Carlsen is smashed while playing against the engine, let alone Eric or someone the typical chess player. You can actually play stockfish on Lichess if you want to, and it'll move within 1-3seconds for each move without time limit.
@@rocchirodrigo Stockfish does not brute force calculate. It is much more sophisticated. Do you know how many positions a program using brute force would have to evaluate after 4 moves from eatch player in the middle game? It is a very well written algorythm and I think after the advances made by alpha zero and leela there also have been some neural network components added. Calling this beutiful piece of technology simple brute force is disheartening :(
No more shoutouts, I must focus. Hey, it is peppe, shout out to peppe! Lol :))
"A computer cheater crushed me"
Me :Oh crap, not again
0 Inaccuracies
0 Mistakes
0 Blunders
Seems legit
I am more worried about the 10 centipawn loss. 000 can happen, but to have that accuracy XD
@Sarthak Swarnkar It's a measurement of accuracy, so it's saying here that from the whole game his concession to white was only 0.1 pawns because of how accurate the moves were
I lost with a 97% accuracy(My rating is 1269!) against someone with a 85% accuracy. How? I played extremely well(44 best moves in 70 total moves) except for one blunder:I gave away my queen for free on move 16 lol.
I just started on lichess and my current rating is 1200+?, and very occasionally even I play 0 0 0 games
Mikio Masaaki because people at your level tend to play horrible moves so anyone who has half a brain will take advantage of them and win quickly. I’ve had 8 centipawn loss games with 5 moves bc opponent blunders immediately and they resign. The point is going through a whole game playing the most accurate moves as if it were a short game, so it’s obvious they cheated
13:40 12 seconds for taking a rook??? Ahahahahahahaha
Tough decision he could have played Kh7
Cut him some slack! His engine was buffering!
@Alan Quezada yeah it's true but..man, do you think you will really play it?😅 ok black is winning in all cases but taking the rook here is an obvious move
Tbh at 13:05 I calculated Rxf3 Rxf8 Kh7. I have some serious traps and if Kxf8 I would be scared of perpetual. So yeah my first candidate move was Kh7
@@user-it4iz7pv1g so you’re saying you wouldn’t take the rook first?
Plot twist: he’s just the strongest player on planet earth starting out on Lichess
Yup. The strongest player who needs ten seconds to take back a rook
If u wanna beat Eric, just spam sub him while playing
I just watched your “early tactics in the Italian” video from 1 year ago like 30 minutes ago and then you post an Italian game again
I watched that video too this morning!
You held your own very well 🤙
And yet he kept offering a draw. Stockfish didn't tell him to do that.
eric knew the whole time, just has to wait to get confirmation. he hints with what he says
at 08:50 "I give shoutouts after the game, I have to focus"
10 seconds later: "Hey it's Pepe, shout out to Pepe"
this man is amazingly kind...love him
No he's not... He just used a computer to cheat against Eric Rosen!
videos of games against cheaters are my favourite videos to watch because it's the only time you ever get to see good players playing normally against engines, instead of playing doing dumb "anti-computer" moves like the hippo or immediately closing the position and doing nothing
Hmm do you also cheat as well? Very suspicious comment
@@centrelink6003 i assume hes just interested, I don't think a cheater is much interested in strategy either way
Me also, I love to see AK-47 vs Hand, 500 Mps train vs running Usain Bolt as well as Russian Tank vs Pro wrestler.
@Demedim Stafford Gambit ftw
Without even considering the knowledge imparted, your relaxed and open communication and thought processes seem to immediately improve my chess and are gently entertaining. You're my favourite chess streamer.
Eric was very angry inside but good job for keeping your cool ,
You could sense almost the instant that he realized
18:43 Eric looks sad and disappointed for playing a computer cheater.
This is very good, inspirational and informative material. I am asking for more longer games. Thank you!
To me it's impressive how the strength of the human player is still showing: computer makes a totally absurd move out of nowhere and the cheated player immediately recognizes all the implications of why that move was so strong and why it was so hard to see before.
Eric's pretty good
14:43 Very instructive... indeed, forcing the opponent to play on makes sense.
8:51 "ill give shoutouts after this game, i have to focus" pepellou appeared, "shoutouts to pepe" lol
These are some of my fav videos bc i always like to see how early you start to suspect somethings up.
20:46 couldn’t have ended this video better than that “mmm pumpkin”
„I like playing like, real People...“ 😂
I missed the beginning of your Twitch stream, so thanks for putting this up. I appreciate the way you handled this.
As you said in your recend video "Missing Both Rooks" *in this type of situations you have to look at the bright side of things*, cheater was immediately banned and you didn't lost any rating points, you explored a very interesting opening with the help of (his) engine moves, and in the end you made a really good youtube and twitch content for your audience, so Eric next time someone will cheat against you (and unfortunately it'll happen again) don't be sad but make trasture of this situation and think about the good content that you'll do with it!
It's not fun trying your best and still getting crushed
@@billowen3285 the only one trying their best here was obviously stockfish. eric chatting, shoutouting and anylyzing just 2 - 3 moves ahead. otherwise i agree with you ;)
wow, usually this kind of "seeing world's bright side" makes me depressed, but not this time and i wanna thank you for this lovely comment! :)
@@pk-fi1ok maybe here it turned out alright, but once a guy cheated against me and it sucked so much. I felt completly outclassed and was in awe of how much better his position was even though I felt like I played pretty well. It's so demoralising putting all your mind into a game and finding out you never had a chance
@@billowen3285 Yes, I got it. I feel the same even if I know I play against computer. The feeling is literarly scary. I have been trying to comprehend the cheating and I came to the conclusion. When you cheat and beat a strong player you feel good. For a moment, wow, that must be something. But it very dangerous false feeling of security. I say every (self)lie is dangerous. So I started to feel sorry for them cheaters. I pity them. That is my medicine against a match with them.
It was a great classical stream last night! All games UA-cam worthy. Hope Eric also uploads the games against legit players.
Cheating in chess is not JUST cheating - you are selling your humanity.
Where is your pride?
What are you?
damn that’s deep.
they're probably sad people
Some of them are just 12-year-olds who discover engines for the first time, and do it so they can brag to their buddies that they beat a strong player. I mean, they’re children, so normal logic doesn’t apply. Not saying this particular case is a child, but it could be.
@@mensaswede4028 I get what you mean and I know they exist, but cheating in a 2 h long tournament? Those who are trying to ruin others hard working grind in a tournament are the worst. They have no self respect and not enough empathy for others.
I'm going to play devil's advocate for a bit and say this: there would be far fewer cheaters in online chess if the community wasn't so toxic towards anyone with an elo below 2000. Chess has the most snobbish, elitist community I've ever seen, and even the low ranked people perpetuate it by simping for the top players
11:55 h3 is such a mindblowing move!
14:15 roasting the opponent
15:24 appreciating stockfish move
Last bit of video was very insightful for me thanks 👌🏾
18:12 "I would show the rating refund message, but I don't want to show all my DMs" oooooohhhhhh Eric getting it in!!! haha
Why do girls have to sexualise everything?
Uranus lol Idk I thought it was funny
@@SuperYtc1 I wasn't even sexualising it lmfao I was just joking that he talks to a lot of girls on a chess website
@@laurasanchez7105 Weird flex but ok
@@SuperYtc1 Ok boomer
I love how he doesn't outright say it but it just becomes obvious.
A few really surprising deep moves and then waiting several seconds on obvious ones.
13:50 At youth matches, it actually happens pretty often. One move to do, still thinking.
I’ve been playing this opening for so long and didn’t know it was the Moller. I kinda just discovered it and liked it
The refund was so fast, nice!
I read the title as "A Computer Cheater Crushed By Moller Attack" and was pretty confused the whole first part of the video.
I love your videos, they make me fall asleep very easily
ending the video on "mm... pumpkin" is legendary
11:38 hard decision so it takes time...
Its so wonderful to see that he never suspects his opponent for cheating , such a nice guy!
He definitely knew
Thank u Eric for the great chess content always
Eric "What to do" Rosen - Love your content!
Lichess is so good at banning cheaters. Clearly the superior chess site...
Just today played against a cheater on Lichess myself
@@alexweitz just report them, I'm sure you'll get back your points :)
Funny thing, it wasn't even a rated game
@@alexweitz wow. cheaters really are a stupid bunch...
There are a small group of people who successfully cheat on lichess. Most don't know how to do it properly, it's surprisingly easy. The typical 5 second move ones will always be banned quickly because of software lichess have to detect it.
I wonder if he offered a draw because he was feeling bad or if he was scared to get banned by a streamer..
If he was scared he could have simply not cheated
He played somebody that plays chess & not theory which is not chess but actually mimicking some one else moves step for step...its why the best players ever were paul Morphy & bobby Fischer ❗
I remember when i tried to play with chess engine, that was many years ago, i do still feel bad about that
Don't do it again though
From opening explorer this is C54 Giuoco Piano, Greco's attack
At what move did you think he might've been using an engine?
He was probably certain 13 min + going by his commentary when he checked the guys blitz games and mentioned the oppo taking time in spite of having only one legal move available
@@ferlou2373 that seemed like when he was sure of it. But I think he started to suspect when the guy played h4.
Imagine Cheating but with the easy chess AI instead of the hard one.
Great video!
Interesting content...Watching an engine playing good chess 🤣 Great line Eric
At 14:46 is the rook not hanging? Could someone explain to me why he can't capture the rook with his pawn?
Qb1
gxf3 is met by Qb1 mate.
If Black takes the rook, White has Qb1 checkmate
am i the only one that gets anxious when Eric gets distracted by messages and misc small talk, especially when it's been his move for a while and he doesn't notice...
thank you Eric
So I do have a question. Obviously engines will win at normal time controls but do human players still have a chance at 'postal' time controls?
Please do a Jerome and upload it here.
He posted a video where he attempted to do the Jerome (he didn't do it right).
@@b_manly5067 The Jerome is tough to master! :D
14:50 Can anyone explain to me why he didn't take the Rook instead of the pawn here?
To avoid back rank mate with Qb1#
@@federicocappellini3241 Excellent, thank you, Frederico.
My game suffers terribly because I constantly fail to see the obvious ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Federico Cappellini i dont understand?
@@luluthecat1570 if white takes the rook the h3 pawn covers g2 and black can put the queen to b1 with a back rank mate because the withe king has no escape
Federico Cappellini oooohhh got it thanks
@Eric Rosen it's Called giuoco piano that in Italian could possibly means linear/regular/flat game. However very good game considering it was vs stockfish. Keep it up
Eric has that under cheek shadowing that anna taylor joy has(beth harmon)
I wish I was that good that people would have to cheat against me to win. LOL
Eric handled the cheating well...a gentleman indeed.
I read the title as "A Computer Cheater Crushed *By* Moller Attack" instead of *"My"* and I was so happy for Eric, but as I watched through, I felt so sad for him.
But its great how he held his own through the game and never directly said that his opponent is "obviously" cheating, even though he knew it within 10 moves. He is such a wholesome guy.
Gotta love the 10 sec it took to play qxf6
i feel like you can tell it's a cheater because of the consistent couple seconds before a move it makes, even in the opening and in tough spots
Awww Eric is so innocent. Why would someone do this
love how when hes in a bad position he just ignores the high pressure area and focuses on the outside conflicts, both comical and functional :)
I’m sorry that shit happened to you man. Mad respect after watching this.
I've never understood the point of cheating. There's nothing to gain and no satisfaction to be had.
Satisfaction or what is a gain and what is not is completely subjective. You may not gain any satisfaction from cheating, but they do. Maybe it's the thrill of doing something that is frowned upon, and/or they simply enjoy seeing their elo go up.
It's almost as if the computer cheater wanted to get reported, cheating against a famous IM
Maybe that's why he kept offering a draw
Why does your analysis board look different than mine? Mine doesnt show the games people already played or the 1st, 2nd, 3rd best moves.
Eric Rosen is so quiet so he is perfect to watch when you are not allowed on your phone at night but still want to learn chess
Eric: Obvious computer engine based on no inaccuracies from me opponent
Me an Intellectual: Bobby Fischer conspiracy theory that he never died and is no a lichess subscriber 🤣
You’re not an intellectual
I dont play online much, mostly at school
Online just doesnt work with me i cant even plan out properly i just dont see it right
Feels weird to not tojch the peices
It's scary how good these computers are
Idk why but I freaking love this guy haha.
We all know you would have stil beaten him with the Jerome.
Or the stafford...
What's the point of Cheating
To brag to people in the forums about their elo
These people know they will never play good chess and have complexes and then use engines..
crushing your opponent ego
It's a conspiracy to push people to play blitz and bullet more and more, look into it
@@Chakkaly It's possible to easily cheat too.
I’ve often wondered, I do quite a lot of studying and playing games OTB, and I know for a fact I am quite a bit better then my current rating on chesscom/lichess, if I get reported back for cheating because I’m playing lower rated players, is there any way to prove I’m not cheating?
Well played by the engine.