Hay kids heres the message of this story, you can not do great things unless you are biologically more important and destined for greatness, Doctor who used to be about a below average time lord who ran away and taught himself that hatred is always foolish and love is always wise, he did great things because it was a decent thing to do rather than being destined for greatness.
**ahem** I would like to interject here if I may: Yes, the Gallifreyans became great due to said Tectaun's discoveries and their mastery over time with Rassilon at the helm but you need to understand that THAT lifecycle of The Doctor's is different from The Timeless Child's/Fugitive Doctor's lifecycle. Of course, Estri/Euah from my Doctor Who fan-made 'Majesty' series is part of a different lifecycle from the current Doctor's lifecycle. Basically, we're talking about a time in The Doctor's long sorted life/history where it really doesn't matter if he was the founder, he's no longer involved or associated with it. That was like two lifecycles ago! Well, technically three lifecycles now with 11th gaining a new set of regenerations, so I really wouldn't hold it against The Time Lords or him. Savvy?
Sometimes we miss the point. The story started with a mystery. Doctor who? The Doctor is a wanderer in time and space. An exile? OK but from where? A renegade Time Lord? OK that's fine. But wait, maybe something else? Revealing a mysterious origin doesn't change who the Doctor really is. The Doctor isn't destined for anything special. We just don't know what we thought we knew. Who knows?.
@@Gzeebo Quite true. However, my theory on this is that He/She IS a Gallifreyan, but a Gallifreyan from the past universe (yester-verse) that was brought in as a survivor into the current N-Space universe. which means (s)he's is and always has been a Gallifreyan, just not of the current Gallifrey or the current Gallifreyan race.
I once had a dream in which I was skipping across the rings of Saturn while holding hands with a giant chinchila. It still made more sense than this episode.
Imagine how much cooler this twist would’ve been had the Timeless Child been a brand-new character and the Doctor would have to grapple with the idea that the whole reason she can regenerate in the first place is due to the torture and experimentation of an innocent child.
The doctor discovering that his beloved Gallifrey was built on something so horrible that is about someone else would have been much cooler. It would also make us more sympathetic with the master. He didn't lose his mind out of jealousy, but of learning how horrible his people really are.
@@bobthebuilder5159 Lmao, Biden is only 3 years older than Trump. They're both a bunch of old farts. The difference is one has yet to threaten the total destruction of another country. Didn't expect to find Bob the Builder in the field of politics! I thought stopping Spud from mucking up your plans was your biggest concern.
So...this is how it dies...this is how the amazing story of Doctor Who dies, not with a bang, but with the whimper of bad writers. I'll never accept this as Canon. It's so damn contrived it's sickening.
@@ultimatepaine6401 Thunderous applause for thunderously toxic political driven drivel and devolution dribble. Amazing. May we find real writers/righters of wrongs or even just simple...oh, I dunno...people who care about the damn story? Way too soft for me.
I won't waste my time on series 13 if Chibnall is still in charge. They brought back Jack and wasted his character potential. The companions are as interesting as watching paint dry and The Woke Doctor can't keep her mouth shut. The writers clearly don't respect the fans or the show.. but hey as long as woke culture love it...
I'm pissed hartnell isn't the first. Chibnall has ruined the 50 years+ of the show in one episode Edit: Diddnt think this would get this much popularity. I'm glad theres people who agree with me!
IMO I feel like this reveal that the doctor has unlimited regenerations is such a bad move, I now can’t rewatch 10 regenerating without thinking there’s no need for him to be emotional about his next body being his last shot of being the doctor. That is why we have 11 make the most out of the time he is given. It just feels so empty now, like there’s no meaning behind it.
I think you're forgetting the scene in the cafe with Wilf where he says "Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away. And I'm dead." He was emotional simply because he didn't want to change, not because his next body would be his last. But hey, if that were the case, just bear in mind his existance prior to Hartnell's incarnation was wiped from his memory, so he didn't know he was different from the other timelords and that he would live on after 11.
They were mind wiped and the limit was set upon them then. I thought it obvious but apparently they didn’t state it clearly enough.. the Division was intentionally left vague because it’s going to come up agwun
I actually feel Jodie has been the best thing about the last two seasons. It makes it even more frustrating that her talents are wasted on these episodes that either try to do too much or not much at all.
It literally said in the episode itself the regeneration process was restricted to 13 regenerations for everyone, implying they did the same for the Doctor
@@SomeRandomGuy908 No I don't believe thats 100% correct. The regeneration process was restricted to 13 regenerations to everyone after a specific point. Seeing as The Doctor was one of the first, That means the doctor can regenerate as many times as the doctor likes. The doctor can still die though.. as the Doctor could actually leave it too late, resisting the regeneration, to fatal effect. So it seems the Timeless Child isn't necessarily as immortal as some Doctor Who fans are currently assuming.
You are right, William hartnell is the first doctor who started the program , but he is the first doctor we meet on screen, he wasn’t on his first life to begin with so was always inevitable we would soon learn the truth a little about our favourite time lord
@@HowlParanormal that's the reining theory, not that farfetched thou'. But while that could have been a good plot twist it's buried over by the travesty that is the rest of the episode. There is also no mention of either Omega or "The Other". The other was meant to be the doctor. And in light of the old cannon It would have made more sense that the doctor eventually found out of the timeline child and run away from galifrey because of that
Doctor Who has always been about mystery on who the doctor actually is. This “reveal” ruins all the build up we’ve been getting for over 50 years by retconning: William Hartnell stealing the TARDIS as seen in The Name of the Doctor, River Song becoming half time lord from being conceived while the TARDIS was in the time vortex, the TARDIS getting stuck as a police box in An Unearthly Child / The Cave of Skulls, the Doctor not being able to regenerate in The Time of the Doctor, etc.
This series was almost good before it became a joke. That fact that the whole fanbase completely HATES this means chibss STUFFED UP BIG TIME. The fanbase isn't divided, It's GONE... No one likes this. He never needed a backstory at all and certainly not a plot that creates MORE PLOT HOLES. It's disrespectful to Hartnell's legacy, It destroys already established cannon and messes up a story of a rebel Time Lord who wanted to see the universe.
You're wrong, my wife and I liked it. Therefore the whole of the fanbase didn't hate it. And we've been fans for a very long time. We thought it was a neat twist that takes the show in new direction. I hated the introduction of the Time Lords in 1969, a precept established six years AFTER the show began in order to facilitate exiling the Doctor to Earth so that the BBC could make fewer expisode for the same money, taking the show into colour. Doctor Who's continuity is constantly changing. Unfortunately some fans don't seem to appreciate that.
@@ianwilliams5866 It de-characters the fact he was a rebel time lord. now he was a;ways special and his regenerations didn't matter. 7 million new whovians people left after that reveal. including me
Honestly this would've been great if the Timeless Child was the Master. It would explain why he is the way he is. It just doesn't work with it being the Doctor, it just doesn't.
Not *great*... much, much better and would have given his rage so much more context. There are still faults with the Timeless Child over all... it retcons the already established foundations of the Timelords.
But what if, the doctor is the timeless child and she is the way she is bc she doesn't want others to feel how she did, and the master is actually Tek Ta Un (idk how to spell it) which explains why the master and doctor gravitate towards one another, and why the master has always had a knack for engineering insane creations
I don't believe they've actually managed to find a way to ruin Dr Who even more than they already have done. Might as well have hired a Dalek to write it.
I wouldn't even hore a Dalek to write stand-up. Just imagine it.... "An En-glish-man, An Ir-ish-man, And A Scots-man Went In-to The Pub!.... AND I EXTERMINATED THEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I mean, if a Dalek wrote it, pretty sure I’d go something like this: Dalek: EXTERMINATE! *doctor gets shot* *doctors starts to regenerate* Dalek: EXTERMINATE! (again) *shoots him again whilst regenerating* Doctor: *dies* The End.
Just having Gallifrey destroyed again *ruined* the 50th Anniversary. Now I'm going to have to bleach my brain from this utter garbage just to enjoy my dvd copy again.
To be fair, it is quite possible to make logical sense out of it. It is possible for the timeless child to be a future incarnation of The Doctor, rather than being in the past. The Doctor has been unique amongst Timelords for 14 generations now. It's not too far fetched for a future generation of The Doctor to turn into a child after some issues with a future generation causing The Doctor to essentially become immortal(I mean, it's kinda a cop out to keep adding 12 generations every time The Doctor runs out). It can easily be retconned, but it would be spoilers to The Doctor.
@Ian She had the power to regenerate cause her parents banged in the tardis. You can't change that. This season is garbage and it shits on DW lore and the showrunner is a hack. It also ruins the ending of 12 Doctor. People who like this woke crap don't deserve to call themselves fans.
@@Pir-o No she didn't. That is never explicitly stated. Her dna was more timelord than normal, and the church did experiments on her. It was never said what exactly gave her the ability to regenerate
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Chris Chibnall... Thanks for saving me money on merchandise that I no longer plan to buy... Thanks for saving me time by no longer watching a show that I once loved... And thanks for destroying the history and lore of a once great show... Please end this mess ASAP, no one is watching it anymore, the ratings keep falling, ending it now would be a mercy killing!!!!
In one episode Chibnall has managed to ruin the entire mythos, destroy the overall concept and overarching mystery of the show as a whole, remove all stakes for future stories as the Doctor is now immortal, created a thousand continuity problems in order to fix one that never needed fixing, has effectively sabotaged the characterization of both the main hero and villain of the franchise, and made the main character infinitely less relatable and interesting. I don't think I could come up with a bigger failure if I tried. This is like bad fanfiction, which I suppose makes sense since this is quite literally Chibnall's bad childhood fanfiction being put to screen.
Just because the Doctor has infinite regenerations doesn't make him immortal. The show has long established that you can be killed before regeneration takes place or is complete regardless of the number of regenerations you have left.
Cry harder. Doctor Who is literally built on the very circumvention you're deriding. The First Doctor's character was never a Time Lord, in fact, he explicitly described himself as a "wanderer in the fourth dimension, cut off from his people" and talked about one day returning to his civilisation. Every subsequent Doctor's era has ignored this detail, stating that he wanted to escape Gallifrey and had no desire to return "running away" being the new canon for the Doctor. Where's the umbrage about that? Oh right, it's non-existent because Doctor Who has no consistent canon, everything is in flux and changes based on the needs of whoever is in charge. Your outrage is completely out of proportion. It's a show for kids. Grow up.
@@ajb1991.1 Oh, let's examine this rebuttal shall we: Susan - "Well, I made up the name TARDIS from the initials" (except every other Gallifreyan time machine was called a TARDIS too - Maybe Susan was just that big of a trend setter) The Doctor - "You can't rewrite history, not one line!" (except when you need to) Ian - "His heart seems alright" (well, one of them is but what about the other one) The Doctor "I've been renewed. It's part of the TARDIS" (except when any Time Lord regenerates anywhere else) Daleks were mutated Kaleds (except when they were mutated Dals) The Brigadier retired from UNIT in 1976 (three years before it was founded)
@@mustarddoctor for me the question is why does he have all the spezials of time lords like 2 hearts. And why did the time lords tell her she is half human.... I mean honastly if u find this child and build ur society arounds it's abbilitys why don't tell the child just yes u are one of us.... Why tell him u are half our race and half human..... That makes no sense in my head ^^ Oh and when the doctor is this race that can regenerate naturally and as often as they want why can't his child and granddaughter do the same? They are at least half of her race.... (Susan from season 1 for example)
Dr Who fans probably won't know or care about the following: but a similar thing happened to the Character of Motoko Kusanagi in the animated TV series and the recent live action movie - nobody needed an origin story - it's tedious, and destroys mystery. An answer to a question that is best left unanswered. The mystery is part of the character, and yields far more possibilities than if some prosaic answer is found.
Whilst I was not surprised with this ”twist”, I still miss the idea that the Doctor was just some random Gallifreyan who got bored and decided to travel the universe. Now it just feels like the Doctor was destined for greatness and I don't like it
Yeah, I liked that The Doctor wasn't really anything special at first but just another Gallifreyan/Time Lord but now The Doctor is some kind of Immortal being from another Dimension...
And with tenneant he said when he and the master were children they both stared into the time vortex but as shown in this video the doctor looks older than a child
@@georgelinford5576 so the f in master was just brainwashed aswell even though he ascended to mad realm and should of regained those memorys of how he literally wasnt friends with the doctor plus why did the gallifrieans the people who built the laws of physics caste out magic defeated the great vampires and fought constanly to save history TOTURE A CHILD OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHEN THEY GOT REGENRATION FROM THE VAMPIRES NOT HER
@@wilmagregg3131 do you need a minute to sit down? I'm genuinely worried. I literally just said it was only the Doctor that gets brainwashed every 12 regenerations, and their childhood memories were all aspects of that fake brainwashing. The Master was obviously brainwashed into thinking he/her and the Doctor had all the fun they speak of to keep the lie going.
The Doctor's past is supposed to be a mystery, that's the whole reason why this show is called "Doctor Who". This retcon shows that Chris Chibnall has no regard for story and is only interested in virtue signalling.
@@HazarTulum No the name "Doctor ""Who"" " does not still apply, the mystery the doctors past was the mystery, we were never supposed to find out who he was before he stole the TARDIS, and to be honest In my personal opinion I think The Doctor was never supposed to be anyone special, just madman/woman in a box, passing through, helping out, learning... The Doctor never stops helping the universe, never sticks around long, and never asks to be thanked.. Now ith this revelation we know who The Doctor is, we may not know exactly where The Doctor came from when coming through the portal, But that really doesnt matter because obviously the people from the alternate dimension/universe The Doctor came from have not been looking for The Doctor or anything, it seems as if once arriving in our universe is the start of The Doctors life, so even if we do not have name (which with this being the origin The Doctor truly doesn't have a name) so it doesn't matter what the Doctors real name is because there never was a name, and even so if we were givin a name in this origin story it would still be the same, The Show is ruined because it is no longer a mystery of "Who?" is The Doctor, now we know Who The Doctor is, we just don't kno how many cycles of regeneration The Doctor has went through, and we dont know what dimension or universe Thr Doctor came from, all we know is who The Doctor is in the history and context to the story, so no reason in saying Doctor Who anymore because The Doctor is more than likely the real name name thats been used since before William Hartnell, because Chibball confirmed that The Fugitive Doctor was pre Hartnell, and was already going by the name "The Doctor" but since we now know who the doctor was, it doesn't matter if we have a name or not, we still know who the doctor was, and all the things that people keep saying ("This opens so many doors", or "The Doctors past is still a mystery", "what dimension did The Doctor come from") my answer to those questions are who cares... They should rename the show to "Doctor Where", because now we know "Who" the Doctor is..
@@DustinFerriss "No the name "Doctor ""Who"" " does not still apply, the mystery the doctors past was the mystery, we were never supposed to find out who he was before he stole the TARDIS" By that logic, Moffat ruined that with Listen. And The Name of the Doctor. We saw the Doctor as a child, and the moment before he stole the TARDIS with Susan. So the name "Doctor Who" didn't apply back in 2013. Or did The War Games ruin that mystery? We finally learned that the Doctor was a Time Lord, whereas before we had no idea. We learned that he left his home planet because he was bored, did that ruin any mystery aswell? "In my personal opinion I think The Doctor was never supposed to be anyone special, just madman/woman in a box, passing through, helping out, learning... The Doctor never stops helping the universe, never sticks around long, and never asks to be thanked" Yeah, I agree. I prefer the Doctor being a nobody traveller who just helps out instead of this god like being, but remember the one rule about the matrix. The only logic is there isn't any logic. This is another potential origin story for the Doctor, because the Matrix can be tampered with, and it seems pretty clear to me that the Master wanted to distract the Doctor long enough to create his Cyber-Time Lords. What better way to distract the Doctor than throwing this huge revelation in her face? The point is, if you like this revelation, consider it canon, and if you don't, theres plenty of reason to disregard it. "Now with this revelation we know who The Doctor is, we may not know exactly where The Doctor came from when coming through the portal" Bingo! So we still don't know who the Doctor is! "But that really doesnt matter because obviously the people from the alternate dimension/universe The Doctor came from have not been looking for The Doctor or anything" So? Was there no mystery beforehand back during the Hartnell and Troughton era's when the Time Lords weren't looking for him? "it seems as if once arriving in our universe is the start of The Doctors life, so even if we do not have name (which with this being the origin The Doctor truly doesn't have a name) so it doesn't matter what the Doctors real name is because there never was a name, and even so if we were givin a name in this origin story it would still be the same" I would argue the Doctors life truly began when he stole the TARDIS from Gallifrey with Susan. His life before leaving Gallifrey isn't important, as a traveller exploring the universe throughout time and space is who the Doctor is. And let me ask you, if someone was adopted, does that mean the name they were given by their adopted parents isn't their true name? "The Show is ruined because it is no longer a mystery of "Who?" is The Doctor, now we know Who The Doctor is, we just don't kno how many cycles of regeneration The Doctor has went through, and we dont know what dimension or universe Thr Doctor came from" So "Doctor Who" still applies. Thank you for confirming that all we know is who The Doctor is in the history and context to the story, so no reason in saying Doctor Who anymore because The Doctor is more than likely the real name name thats been used since before William Hartnell, because Chibball confirmed that The Fugitive Doctor was pre Hartnell, and was already going by the name "The Doctor" Source? For all we know, she's a 6B Doctor who found out that she was the Timeless Child, so the Time Lords erased her memory and gave her one extra regeneration so that when the Doctor reached his/her 13th body, there wouldn't be any confusion as to why (s)he could regenerate but since we now know who the doctor was, it doesn't matter if we have a name or not, we still know who the doctor was, and all the things that people keep saying ("This opens so many doors", or "The Doctors past is still a mystery", "what dimension did The Doctor come from") my answer to those questions are who cares... They should rename the show to "Doctor Where", because now we know "Who" the Doctor is.." Damn, can't you break your word salad up into actual sentences? I personally agree that the argument of "this opens up more possibilities" doesn't make any sense, is changing the past really the best way to introduce new things to the show? The Time War changed the show, but that didn't alter what had come before. But the Doctor past is absolutely still a mystery, we just know now that there were bodies before Hartnell, and we know a bit more about what those bodies before Hartnell did. I haven't seen a *single* argument that convinces me that the shows mystery is over. Don't get me wrong, theres plenty to criticise about this story, but the Timeless Child revelation ruining the mystery of the show just isn't based in any reality
The origin story nobody wanted. There is a reason it's called Doctor Who. When you take away the mystery you take away the wonder. Thanks BBC for ruining my childhood.
@@theretrorooster4626 Does the mystery about the Doctors real name matter now? Now Chibnall has dredged up this pile of kak 'Timeless child' storyline, that question has become irrelevant
@@theretrorooster4626 The Doctor's real name is apparently not the one he was keeping secret for 57 years. According to the Gospel of St. Chris of Chibnall the biggest mystery of the series up until now was just part of a Time Lord cover-up and presumably doesn't really matter any more.
@@deferguard7748 Yeah, and in 'The Sound of Drums', The Doctor recounts his experience as a 8 year old child gazing into the time vortex as part of an ancient time lord tradition.
BBC you've Failed Doctor Who...... The next Showrunner NEEDS to Undo this and put WILLIAM HARTNELL back as the man born on Galifrey that becomes the first Doctor. 😬😬😬😬😬
Knightfall182 I hope it’s revealed down the line that it was a trick or miscommunication by either the master or the time lords or the computer records itself and it’s actually revealed to be the master which would explain why he always inexplicably returns or has weird powers like in the movie and end of time. If chibnall does it he’ll be forgiven in my eyes but if not I seriously hope the next show runner does.
The only good thing about this current dr who is that so many people won't have seen how poor it's become. If you think the UK tv ratings are bad, they pale into insignificance when you see the final episode ratings in america. No one seems to be watching it, lucky them.
Thats because we was smart enough to stop watching this crap the BBC is pushing out. The majority of Dr Who fans here in America went back to watching classic Who..
Classic Doctor Who on DVD/Blu-ray for me. 🙂 Maybe I will tune back into the show when the BBC gets its head screwed on straight and retcons these two seasons out of existence & returns the Doctor to being a man straight out of Capaldi's regeneration. Which, by the way, should've been subtle as it was his first regeneration & we've seen that they only get more dramatic & explosive as you get closer to the final, 12th, regeneration.
Nor should they. If I lived in the US I'd be spoilt for choice with much better sci-fi on the excessive amount of TV channels they have...and not this woke dross on BBC America
The Rise of Skywalker wasn't good, but it shat completely and utterly on Rian Johnson and his abomination of a movie. For years the fans were told they didn't matter; it soon became clear to Disney that audience is money, and money talks. With luck the next show runner of Doctor Who will take an axe to Chibnall's abomination.
Atleast Star Wars is trying to say, that "If you want to be a hero, you shouldn't be born special" While Doctor Who goes "If you want to be a hero, you SHOULD be born as special and being a hero is your destiny."
Watched and loved this show since the 1960's. Purchased all the books, dvds etc. No more, it's dead. But what makes it so sad is the BBC do not care. They do not make entertainment any more. Just vehicles for their propaganda. I submitted a complaint. The reply boiled down to "tough, we will do what we want" RIP Doctor Who 1963-2017.
Flash forward to Series 14 (Written by new show runner after series 13 scores record low viewing figures and critical ratings.) 'But Doctor, aren't you the Timeless Child? And what about the destruction of Gallifrey?' 'No, that was some bull crap made up by the Master. And the destroyed Gallifrey was just a very elaborate perception filter. Now, let's go meet Jim Morrison and have an adventure!'
The BBC's statement defending this fanfiction pissed me off again. I was going through my books and found A Brief History of Time Lords. My heart felt heavy.
@listen2meokidoki What a ridiculous statement. To not see how ridiculous that is you'd have to be as stupid as a Trump supporter. You are just pushing Islamophobic trash. I suppose u hate Punjab for saying what happened. Partisian did cause huge riots in which many died.
Old Chinball needs to stop writing for this show. Then again, once the license gets tossed out and brexit finishes BBC will be broke so they will have to change their tune or close the doors.
This is why u don't put betas in positions of power. They say yes to any idea just to make people happy. Sometimes in a writers meeting the word NO should be in the script
This was so indescribably awful. This potentially massive, lore transforming twist is dumped on the audience in 10 mins of exposition. It’s the epitome of lazy writing. This is something that should’ve been woven into multiple episodes and stories, series even. It could’ve been slowly uncovered and discovered by the Doctor and audience alike. We should’ve been made to feel something for this Timeless Child. Then maybe it could’ve been accepted by the audience, welcomed even. Instead anyone with half a brain can see this for what it is. A poor excuse at an attempt to be daring and mix things up. Pathetic. An incredible disservice to 57 years of the show. I, as well as many many others, will not be watching any more of this utter drivel
There have been some really good fan alternative takes on this which are way better than this shit....I mean everyone knew from the moment "The Lameless Migrant" was mentioned it was going to be the Doctor. It makes me laugh when some NuWho fans act all suprised about it???? WTF? ahahahahaa
@@GLBizzie Im in my 20s. I did not ship them as a couple. Dont make assumptions like this. People can like different things, there is no need to go out of your way to b unpleasant
Doctor Who was dead during 5 years. But next year the show will be back with Russell T Davies as the showrunner and David Tennant as the Doctor ! And Catherine Tate as Donna Noble 😁
@@ciarantimothy8081 why its stupid and goes against the show the point of it being a mystery is that fans and peoples imaginations and theories will always be more interesting than what s writer could come up with and how true that rings now
@@debonaire_nerd I wouldn't quite say so. There are plenty of fan-fiction stories I declare cannon; The Ten Doctors, Exausted Supplies, the short-stories by Christopher Thompson, All these I will continue to call Cannon until the sun burns out of the sky. This however, is something that's officially licensed, and yet I'm calling it fan-fiction. I hope that clears things up. :)
@@carealoo744 Makes sense :) On that note: can ANYBODY please edit the ending to Twice Upon a Time where the credits roll just before Jodie Whitaker's form is revealed? I accept that episode as a bookend to the overall series as a story about a Timelord coming to terms with his own mortality.
@@debonaire_nerd Brilliant! Honestly, I want there to be an edit where we keep the Jodie Whittaker reveal, but we then cut to black and she says: 'Aw, Still not Ginger.' Doctor Who will return after another 16 year hiatus. Hey, if anyone's interested, I'm reviewing all the Doctor Who stories on my channel, with me just having uploaded my review of: 'Planet of the Spiders (1974)!' No pressure, of-course; It just might be worth checking out! :)
That's the point. Now that we have figured the origin, Chibnall can make a lot more storyline. Everyone should be thankful. He has just made a completely new path for the Doctor
@Whom I just think it's such an insult to the show we all love. I would never even risk alienating the fans. I miss when it was a fun, campy adventure through space and time. That's the show we all fell in love with.
@@PoissonVisageStudios Agreed. That was what drawn me to the show in the first place. The romance of Time Travel, visiting worlds, fun and adventure not this fantasy style fanfiction.
An explanation that literally nobody asked for, nobody wanted, and completely changes the main character, thanks chipnall, thank you for ruining my favorite show.
Can we not do the whole "The Doctor is the key to or the secret of, everything" thing? Like, the Doctor is the Doctor, but also that hybrid thing, earth's special helper, the timeless child, the most special person in all creation (given Moffats endless speeches through side characters etc.) and I can't even think what else. Its exhausting.
No, the doctor is still the doctor. Obviously special, yet going her own way, concerned with earth and doing good. This changes nothing, she even says so at the end. The Master broke the viewers, not The Doctor. A bit of backstory revealed is great, even if it messes with what you think the doctor should be.
Mathieu Thielemans idk, I kind of like the Doctor being ‘a mad man who stole a box’. I was hoping this whole ‘the one’ trope died out. It kind of ruined the character for me.
@@tierk4328 There's probably a whole bunch of OG timelords through that interdimensional portal, so she's not really the one, she's just the one the timelords used. It only adds a villainy backstory to the timelords (who were already somewhat dodgy) and some context for how the doctor fits in that. She's always been an outsider, now there's a reason. She'll remain timelordy, because she was raised that way. I dont understand how any of that ruins the character of the doctor. Unless she starts behaving differently ofcourse :)
@@MrMatenizer Sorry but this only reduced Jodie's incarnation into the something special trope that oddly was a main criticism with RTD and Moffat's female companions.
@@einezcrespo2107If anything, the fact that there's real dramatic change to the story, makes it so Jodie Whitacker can show her true acting chops. I loved her dialogues with The Master, they both did a stellar job performing. It gave her the chance to give depth to the performace. I'd also argue the whole thing is one big trope. Sci-fi at its finest is pretty tropey, it's the humanity in the dialogue and reactions that usually make it worthwhile, atleast to me.
@Little Normani Why would you assume that its criticism? Is it because you know by experience that people are fed up by artificial and shallow diversity?
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller You dont know it was for diversity reasons. You're just jumping to conclusions here. From how I see it the only reason Chibbs did this was for shock value or to bring something to the table as the past season was lacking anything.
"A story about a bored alien who grew up in privilege, but decided to rebel against their stuffy and regimented society to go have adventures and meet and befriend people? That sounds really lame. Like, super lame! Who would want to watch that? Now, here is my cool story about a alien with a special destiny, who had super-duper special powers; so special in fact that they gave birth to the society they rebelled against!" - Chris Chibnall, probably
According to Chibnall's interview, he came to idea of Timeless Child in his childhood. So yes, this is basically what he thought when he started to write his bad fanfiction.
@@deferguard7748 It's pretty rich that he was literally on TV complaining about the Colin Baker era of Doctor Who when he's honestly managed to eclipse every bad element of that era, despite having 1000 times the budget and a BBC that wasn't actively trying to kill the show.
@@deferguard7748 Seriously? He bulldozed one of the greatest things on British TV just to satisfy the chip on his shoulder? All so mad little Chumpy can have his way.
The original creators of dr who must be turning in their graves. Has this writer not seen the three doctors or the five doctors? This speech destroyed everything that has happened since 1963
Kaagh178 Russell destroyed Gallifrey but it's lore and history still remained intact. But this not only re destroys Gallifrey (Day of the Doctor is pointless now) but destroys its history and lore along with it.
abysmal series and end plot, you have basically screwed over the history of the doctor, in one episode, like what all terminator fans are saying about dark fate screwing up T2. chris should be sacked as of today after that crap. he directed an actor to be a master at his worst he is just a idiotic buffoon, the old master would be turning in their graves if they were alive still. basically the doctor can live forever and ever but the universe has been eradicated by a war we did not see, and no humans apart from about 8 exist any more. so how can the doctor series continue with no one to help or save any more, oh and shes been locked up for life too. where the hell was jack harkness in all this, you put him in as a savior and just did not bother with him again. complete mess.
@@ultimatepaine6401 how was it pointless do you really think that machines would just give up at the first attempt to take over the world, the world was saved at the end of T2 so id did work and was finished, this takes over from after the finished event. so it has not spoiled T2 at all, it all still happened and they won the war. what happens next is how the machines reacted to T2. its ot a great movie but it never spoiled T2 it devastated T3 though. now there never was a female terminator after john.
Malcolm place they didn’t give up hence why there was a terminator 2. But DF makes it pointless to have John be protected, if being the savior of humanity can just be passed on. The line “ fate is not what but what we make it” becomes meaningless.
This show was once my fav thing in the whole world , my friends used to actually get super mad at me for talking about doctor who too much , loved every doctor and every showruner ...i got sad when a doctor regenerated and i was happy when the new doctor came in but not with jodies doctor and chris running the show .. it doesn't feel like doctor who anymore and it makes me depressed tbh , this show was my happiness through the dark days of my life ..i haven't watched the new season i only watched the ep of when captain jack came back and i skipped to his scene , i hate saying this but i'd rather see the show canceled than see it being dragged through the mud like this .
I think most fans agree with you on that, I'd rather see this show die out completely than watch it go on while they keep adding their feminist politics to the show and alienating all the old fans.
But I think the Master in my opinion lied to the doctor for some reason. Also, the first doctor is William Hartman so I assume the doctor is male from the beginning
@Cubicnoir oh well all blame him for it I hated the timeless child and the fact that we get the time lords back and he goes you know what I want them dead again it's the day of the new special 14th and rtd are starting us back on the right track and give us back real doctor who hope the master did lie cause that would make make it work and add to the doctor or make it fade away like 8ths quote lol
When I die, I can at least be happy that I made two wise decisions in my life: leaving my abusive ex and dropping Doctor Who like a dead weight at the beginning of Series 12. This is ludicrous, it's amateurish, it's a hack tacitly admitting that they can't write a story, so they instead resort to the storytelling equivalent of parlor tricks.
Worse than parlor tricks. It's shadow puppets and it's infantile. The Doctor has never been infantile. I just want to know who hates The Doctor so much that they would do this and why. I want everyone to at least know that.
I'm surprised you waited till series 12. I could see the woke crap and weak writing take over as soon as Pearl Mackie joined the cast and ditched as the very beginning of series 10
I didn’t enjoyed Series 9 as much as i enjoyed all Others but i still enjoyed it.. I even got used to a female Master/Missy but THIS right here? Just cancel this show already ffs
Toxic fans are toxic. This was a good story. Explains why there are so many doctors when there was supposed to be a limit. Some people won't be satisfied with anything but stale yet familiar content. I'm glad they're taking risks and being bold.
Just so Mr. Chibnall is clear, the question: "Doctor Who?" Was never supposed to be answered! The Doctor is supposed to be mysterious. That's the basically the whole point of the show. This just totally ruined that. We didn't need or want to know the "origins of the Doctor". We haven't needed or wanted to know that for 57 years. Yes, the question does come up from time to time. But that question is what makes it interesting. Now that we supposedly have the answer that question, the show isn't entertaining anymore. Also. What the heck with this writing? If I wanted strange stories with HUGE build up that affects essentially nothing long term, I'd go to Wattpad. Sry, but I kinda wish the show just died with Capaldi now.🤷♀️☹
This is the episode where the franchise died. I used to be a fan, but the writing is so bad now that I refuse to punish myself by watching another season. Please hire a new writer
"What’s weird here is that Gallifrey already has its Celestial Intervention Agency, a secret service designed to covertly interfere in other worlds’ affairs, and they don’t get so much as namechecked here. So much of what we learn in this episode comes from ignoring established continuity only to replace it with things that are basically the same - The Division instead of the CIA, Tecteun instead of Rassilon. These feel like changes for change’s sake, rather than being necessary alterations to canon so that the story of the Timeless Child could make sense." Den of Geek.
That is if we assume we know the exact whole story. The Division could be a former name of the CIA (Tardis wikia writers suggest so too). About Rassilon, the Master said the founding fathers of Gallifrey lied to the Time Lords (or at least exaggerated which is somewhat known) - fits Rassilon's megalomania. History is written by the victors, they say.
You have to bare in mind, if chibnall told Whittaker not to watch any of the old doctor who’s then why would he? You have a show runner and a main character who have ignored 50+ years worth of research so they could make something “fresh and diverse”
I have seen every episode from Classic to NuWho. I have listened to most audios of my favorite characters. I loved this show thoroughly, so believe me when i say that i'm only filled with rage and hate for this horrible retcon season that spit on Doctor Who's history without even worrying about the plot holes (not that the absence of them would make it any better). Chibnall has no respect, i have read he is already confirmed for a new season. I won't be there to watch it.
Thank god that rtd is returning, hopefully he can turn this mess around, even if its something lazy like "oh doctor it was just a prank" or anything At all
@@raginbakin1430 no, actually, he doesn't. I hate this as much as the next guy, but I do not want any more time spent on it whatsoever. Just move on. Forget about it. Pretend it never happened. Doctor Who's continuity is fluid. This absolute mistake never has to be acknowledged again.
Worst Doctor. Worst writer. Worst reveal/plotline. This trifecto of forces are that powerfully bad THIS may cause a rupture in time and space for real!!
They should’ve given Chibnall his own show called ‘The Timeless Child’ instead of giving him a decent show to ruin. I think the acting was decent tbh. Just the writing that was rubbish. The actors just had to do as they were told.
MrThorfan64 i mean whittaker is doing fine with what she has. Besides the visuals and sounddesign are good. Chibnail and the BBC are the problem, whittaker would flourish with a good script.
the doc is the reason the time lords exist, they’re descendants basically, so where the doc actually originates from opens up a new origins story, don’t you think this all adds a new layer of mystery to the doctor at all? is called doctor who after all. but as someone else mentioned,, it could get retconned at some point.
@@jasoncartlidge154 No. That "mystery" you claim there is more of was built on shitting on the entire series and continuity. That's the main reason people are upset. It ruins most of Doctor Who as a show cause now nothing makes sense. As i've seen before, this story wouldn't have been complete garbage had they not made the Doctor the kid. If it was some random kid, it wouldn't have ruined all of the history of the show.
Only decent thing about this episode was the master shame his actor had to be the master during this era imagine him as Matt smiths master might’ve fit actually
Didn’t time lords became time lords through prolong exposure to the one vortex. I remember from the episode a Goodman goes to war. Sounds a bit silly when I hear myself
The regenerative ability was created by Rassilon and he did limit it to 13, except on himself. Apparently the key to it was taken from one of the great vampires. But that's all in Big Finish audios, so Idk if that holds any credibility 🤷
With the next incarnation we will find out: Master lied; there is no timeless child; the doctor is not special; destruction of Gallifrey was a hoax; additional female doctor was part of masters plan to drive the doctor crazy. A new showrunner can heal that mess.
Although I agree it can be retconned in the future, it won't sadly, because no one left at the BBC has any balls anymore. They'll double down on it if anything.
This was just a bad decision. Literally all this revelation does is open up gigantic plot holes in the last 50 years of Doctor Who, and this knowledge doesn't even add anything.
The worse thing about the “timeless child” is it changes nothing (going forward). We were promised a reality altering, “this changes everything”, reveal that would make Doctor Who more interesting and expand on Gallifrey. We got a fanfic of a story which only accomplishes retconning the Doctor and Gallifrey’s past, but changes basically nothing for the Doctor. Going forward this just means there are more past incarnations the Doctor could run into. It’d be somewhat interesting if the pre Hartnell Doctors were evil or had a different set personality, but they butchered that possibly with the Ruth reveal which now shows the Doctor always was and always will be the Doctor. Going forward this just means the Doctor has infinite regenerations (that has been a possibly since 11 got a new cycle as they never said how many regenerations he got) and a new title. Going backward this retcons the established lore which will just piss off old fans. This reveal either does nothing for you or makes you want to stop watching Doctor Who. The worst thing is, really competent and good writers could have made some interesting storylines with this had it been executed better. I’d love to see the doctor with different names (like The Conqueror) and personalities for different sets of lives. A twist like the Master and Doctor working against evil past incarnations of the Doctor would have been cool. I’d even love the opportunity for BBC to explore the adventures of pre Hartnell Doctors at times when the main series is on break; I’d go ecstatic if they put those episodes in black and white. Instead we get Chibnall. Also if all they were going to do is have the master tell the Doctor, they could have done that in the second episode of the series. Building, hinting at, and then having the Doctor figure out for herself what the timeless child was would have been interesting (and in line with what the master said in spy fall part 2). Her spending the whole episode needing the Master to explain every little detail to her was just sad.
It does mean that The Doctor has unlimited regeneration energy and should be able to shoot blasts of it out her arms like 11 did to destroy the Dalek ship when he was regenerating, no reason not to now. And The Doctor should be able to insta-heal everyone around her too like 11 did to River when she broke her wrist.
I hope it’s revealed down the line that it was a trick or miscommunication by either the master or the time lords or the computer records itself and it’s actually revealed to be the master which would explain why he always inexplicably returns or has weird powers like in the movie and end of time. If chibnall does it he’ll be forgiven in my eyes but if not I seriously hope the next show runner does.
Not anymore! Now the doctor was all the diverse things before Hartnell. If you don't like it, nobody cares. If you are British, your taxes are funding this garbage. Right now Chris is wiping his ass with our money while writing ANOTHER season of this drivel. If you liked the classic series, your opinion is officially wrong.
Hay kids heres the message of this story, you can not do great things unless you are biologically more important and destined for greatness, Doctor who used to be about a below average time lord who ran away and taught himself that hatred is always foolish and love is always wise, he did great things because it was a decent thing to do rather than being destined for greatness.
**ahem** I would like to interject here if I may: Yes, the Gallifreyans became great due to said Tectaun's discoveries and their mastery over time with Rassilon at the helm but you need to understand that THAT lifecycle of The Doctor's is different from The Timeless Child's/Fugitive Doctor's lifecycle. Of course, Estri/Euah from my Doctor Who fan-made 'Majesty' series is part of a different lifecycle from the current Doctor's lifecycle. Basically, we're talking about a time in The Doctor's long sorted life/history where it really doesn't matter if he was the founder, he's no longer involved or associated with it. That was like two lifecycles ago! Well, technically three lifecycles now with 11th gaining a new set of regenerations, so I really wouldn't hold it against The Time Lords or him. Savvy?
Sometimes we miss the point. The story started with a mystery. Doctor who? The Doctor is a wanderer in time and space. An exile? OK but from where? A renegade Time Lord? OK that's fine. But wait, maybe something else? Revealing a mysterious origin doesn't change who the Doctor really is. The Doctor isn't destined for anything special. We just don't know what we thought we knew. Who knows?.
@@Gzeebo Quite true. However, my theory on this is that He/She IS a Gallifreyan, but a Gallifreyan from the past universe (yester-verse) that was brought in as a survivor into the current N-Space universe. which means (s)he's is and always has been a Gallifreyan, just not of the current Gallifrey or the current Gallifreyan race.
I once had a dream in which I was skipping across the rings of Saturn while holding hands with a giant chinchila. It still made more sense than this episode.
Great, now you've done it, a giant chinchilla guaranteed in the next series of doctor who once chibnall reads this.
Don't give Chris Chibnall any ideas... and he's never had an idea so don't give him one, his head will explode.
Save State don’t worry don’t think the holy chibs can read
@@wil2209 Not really that shocking since we already know Chris can't write.
saw this comment a time or two already. is it yours and you're very much a fan of it, or did you steal it?
Imagine how much cooler this twist would’ve been had the Timeless Child been a brand-new character and the Doctor would have to grapple with the idea that the whole reason she can regenerate in the first place is due to the torture and experimentation of an innocent child.
So much cooler
The doctor discovering that his beloved Gallifrey was built on something so horrible that is about someone else would have been much cooler. It would also make us more sympathetic with the master. He didn't lose his mind out of jealousy, but of learning how horrible his people really are.
“History of Doctor Who FINALLY REVEALED”
...No, I don’t think so Chibnall
"It could've been a lot better... It could've been slightly better written. Especially the... last story."
-Chris Chibnall 1986
Ironically I had more fun and enjoyed trial of a timelord more over this "boring" story.
Here is living proof that is not always good for long time fans to take over a beloved franchise
This quote is brilliant! Reminds me of Donald Trump's tweet from 2014 reading: "Are you allowed to impeach a president for gross incompetence?"
@@Raxacoricofallapatorius yeah and now we have old man Biden and his nurse Kamala.
@@bobthebuilder5159 Lmao, Biden is only 3 years older than Trump. They're both a bunch of old farts. The difference is one has yet to threaten the total destruction of another country.
Didn't expect to find Bob the Builder in the field of politics! I thought stopping Spud from mucking up your plans was your biggest concern.
So...this is how it dies...this is how the amazing story of Doctor Who dies, not with a bang, but with the whimper of bad writers.
I'll never accept this as Canon. It's so damn contrived it's sickening.
Adrick Hunter and this is how freedom dies with thunderous applause.
@@ultimatepaine6401
Thunderous applause for thunderously toxic political driven drivel and devolution dribble. Amazing. May we find real writers/righters of wrongs or even just simple...oh, I dunno...people who care about the damn story?
Way too soft for me.
Adrick Hunter oh no can’t have that because that involves that vile word called effort. They need thoughtless hacks who can just pander muh diversity.
I won't waste my time on series 13 if Chibnall is still in charge. They brought back Jack and wasted his character potential. The companions are as interesting as watching paint dry and The Woke Doctor can't keep her mouth shut. The writers clearly don't respect the fans or the show.. but hey as long as woke culture love it...
@Little Normani depends how woke, doctor who now is so woke it feels like they're forcing it down your throat
I'm pissed hartnell isn't the first. Chibnall has ruined the 50 years+ of the show in one episode
Edit: Diddnt think this would get this much popularity. I'm glad theres people who agree with me!
Hartnell IS the first Doctor, don't even acknowledge this bollocks.
@@darrensmith8730 yeah lol
Theres literally no point of calling the show doctor who anymore
@@TennantOfTime "Doctor Dumpster"
It’s just made more plot holes than it’s fixed!
IMO I feel like this reveal that the doctor has unlimited regenerations is such a bad move, I now can’t rewatch 10 regenerating without thinking there’s no need for him to be emotional about his next body being his last shot of being the doctor. That is why we have 11 make the most out of the time he is given. It just feels so empty now, like there’s no meaning behind it.
I think you're forgetting the scene in the cafe with Wilf where he says
"Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away. And I'm dead."
He was emotional simply because he didn't want to change, not because his next body would be his last. But hey, if that were the case, just bear in mind his existance prior to Hartnell's incarnation was wiped from his memory, so he didn't know he was different from the other timelords and that he would live on after 11.
@@JoeGrohlDJ there was no existence before Hartnell. He was the first Doctor and that's it.
They were mind wiped and the limit was set upon them then. I thought it obvious but apparently they didn’t state it clearly enough.. the Division was intentionally left vague because it’s going to come up agwun
@@JoeGrohlDJ its still terrible written dumpster fire and the showrunner is a hack
@@cleanerben9636 OK boomer
Series 13, episode 1. Peter Capaldi wakes up and exclaims “What a terrible dream!” and all is right with the world again.
ua-cam.com/video/tPtilcryTVs/v-deo.html
Rick Ha ha! You are onto me. That’s exactly where I got it from.
So your response is to sneer it all off.
I actually feel Jodie has been the best thing about the last two seasons. It makes it even more frustrating that her talents are wasted on these episodes that either try to do too much or not much at all.
Everything after last Christmas is a dream
Well now the doctor has no reason to be scared as he can just regenerate endlessly. Also Hartnell is the first.
It literally said in the episode itself the regeneration process was restricted to 13 regenerations for everyone, implying they did the same for the Doctor
@@SomeRandomGuy908 No I don't believe thats 100% correct. The regeneration process was restricted to 13 regenerations to everyone after a specific point. Seeing as The Doctor was one of the first, That means the doctor can regenerate as many times as the doctor likes. The doctor can still die though.. as the Doctor could actually leave it too late, resisting the regeneration, to fatal effect. So it seems the Timeless Child isn't necessarily as immortal as some Doctor Who fans are currently assuming.
You are right, William hartnell is the first doctor who started the program , but he is the first doctor we meet on screen, he wasn’t on his first life to begin with so was always inevitable we would soon learn the truth a little about our favourite time lord
@@joshchannel3389 truth? We knew the truth. The truth is that it wasn’t important. This is a retcon, not clever writing
The BBC doesn’t deserve Doctor Who anymore. Give it to someone who actually appreciates this beloved franchise.
It doesn't deserve to be funded by tax payers money after this either anymore .
face book: Doctor who Dark reality, take a look
Channel 4. Two years ago I would have been fully against it but now I don’t care
@@SLPRODUCTIONS Channel 4 are as bad as the BBC.
Ikr but who could you really trust these days. Think about it.
Rassilon and Omega are crying in old high Gallifreyan.
Ria Occam what is rassilon is tectaun ?
@@HowlParanormal that's the reining theory, not that farfetched thou'. But while that could have been a good plot twist it's buried over by the travesty that is the rest of the episode.
There is also no mention of either Omega or "The Other". The other was meant to be the doctor. And in light of the old cannon It would have made more sense that the doctor eventually found out of the timeline child and run away from galifrey because of that
@Kaagh178 In the script for this episode it is written that the two figures next to Tecteun are presumably Rassilon and Omega.
Doctor Who has always been about mystery on who the doctor actually is. This “reveal” ruins all the build up we’ve been getting for over 50 years by retconning: William Hartnell stealing the TARDIS as seen in The Name of the Doctor, River Song becoming half time lord from being conceived while the TARDIS was in the time vortex, the TARDIS getting stuck as a police box in An Unearthly Child / The Cave of Skulls, the Doctor not being able to regenerate in The Time of the Doctor, etc.
Mystery is good and keeps you entertained. There's a certain insatiable lust for the unknown and it means you can keep a story going without end.
@super natural and to think we get to, ahem, "enjoy" another series at least.
Agreed this has all destroyed doctor who...also I don’t like that the doctor was a black girl like wtf
Those are called questions. Questions are good, they keep the show interesting. They don't ruin it
@@gregmainer5416 Exactly! By making The Doctor immortal and indestructible takes away the tension, drama and poignancy of The Doctor's mortality.
This series was almost good before it became a joke. That fact that the whole fanbase completely HATES this means chibss STUFFED UP BIG TIME. The fanbase isn't divided, It's GONE... No one likes this. He never needed a backstory at all and certainly not a plot that creates MORE PLOT HOLES. It's disrespectful to Hartnell's legacy, It destroys already established cannon and messes up a story of a rebel Time Lord who wanted to see the universe.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Even if I despise the Timeless children, Spyfall is one of my top 5 favorite episodes
they said that about clone wars
You're wrong, my wife and I liked it. Therefore the whole of the fanbase didn't hate it. And we've been fans for a very long time. We thought it was a neat twist that takes the show in new direction. I hated the introduction of the Time Lords in 1969, a precept established six years AFTER the show began in order to facilitate exiling the Doctor to Earth so that the BBC could make fewer expisode for the same money, taking the show into colour. Doctor Who's continuity is constantly changing. Unfortunately some fans don't seem to appreciate that.
@@ianwilliams5866 It de-characters the fact he was a rebel time lord. now he was a;ways special and his regenerations didn't matter. 7 million new whovians people left after that reveal. including me
And just like that, Chris Chibnall took William Hartnell's amazing legacy and all of doctor who canon and took a massive shit on it.
Didn't that already happen when Matt Smith's version died?
Not just massive, galactic.
somewhere in hell john nathan turner breathes a sigh of relief at the fact he is no longer the worst showrunner in the shows history
retro_ Morgan Colin Baker is also no longer the Least popular Doctor either.
@@stevenmcguinness4751 and let's be honestly, we love all 13 versions of the Doctor except this one.
@@crudesketch8051 You mean 12 versions of the Doctor?
@@MrStephanInc 13. Including the War Doctor. Because John Hurt is a phenomenal actor.
@@crudesketch8051 Oh. Well, the 13th doctor (Jodie's doctor) is the fake doctor.
Honestly this would've been great if the Timeless Child was the Master. It would explain why he is the way he is.
It just doesn't work with it being the Doctor, it just doesn't.
Maybe you're right!!! Maybe the Master has told the Doctor this to make her feel pain and emotion etc.
Joshua Escott I hope you’re right
@@leathers4340 I hope I'm right too 😊
Not *great*... much, much better and would have given his rage so much more context. There are still faults with the Timeless Child over all... it retcons the already established foundations of the Timelords.
But what if, the doctor is the timeless child and she is the way she is bc she doesn't want others to feel how she did, and the master is actually Tek Ta Un (idk how to spell it) which explains why the master and doctor gravitate towards one another, and why the master has always had a knack for engineering insane creations
I'm gonna say it. This is basically Chibnall's old Doctor Who fanfic he left on his computer. Calling it. Right now.
Yeah
This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction.
And like 99% of Fanfiction, it is convoluted and nonsensical
@@benedictjlarkin9296 I like things that are convoluted.
I just don't think these questions should have been answered.
Who knows?
@@benedictjlarkin9296 not to mention that it throws the established lore into a trash compactor
I don't believe they've actually managed to find a way to ruin Dr Who even more than they already have done.
Might as well have hired a Dalek to write it.
I wouldn't even hore a Dalek to write stand-up.
Just imagine it....
"An En-glish-man, An Ir-ish-man, And A Scots-man Went In-to The Pub!....
AND I EXTERMINATED THEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I mean, if a Dalek wrote it, pretty sure I’d go something like this:
Dalek: EXTERMINATE!
*doctor gets shot*
*doctors starts to regenerate*
Dalek: EXTERMINATE! (again)
*shoots him again whilst regenerating*
Doctor: *dies*
The End.
Just having Gallifrey destroyed again *ruined* the 50th Anniversary. Now I'm going to have to bleach my brain from this utter garbage just to enjoy my dvd copy again.
Why would you insult a dalek so horribly?!
Every Whovian in the world just praying for this entire thing to be retconned as soon as possible.
To be fair, it is quite possible to make logical sense out of it.
It is possible for the timeless child to be a future incarnation of The Doctor, rather than being in the past. The Doctor has been unique amongst Timelords for 14 generations now. It's not too far fetched for a future generation of The Doctor to turn into a child after some issues with a future generation causing The Doctor to essentially become immortal(I mean, it's kinda a cop out to keep adding 12 generations every time The Doctor runs out).
It can easily be retconned, but it would be spoilers to The Doctor.
@@Predated2 Then who is Rassilon and who is Omega
well im happy with the retcon
Not this one. Not even most of us. Just those of you who can’t accept the myriad new possibilities this has opened.
@@DrWhoFanJ yes exactly that’s my opinion but almost nobody agrees
Well there goes 57 years.
this means that river song should not be able to regenerate
@Ian She had the power to regenerate cause her parents banged in the tardis. You can't change that. This season is garbage and it shits on DW lore and the showrunner is a hack. It also ruins the ending of 12 Doctor.
People who like this woke crap don't deserve to call themselves fans.
The doctor got the power to regenerate when she/he fell though that time vortex thing
@@apexa903 No, it's because the Time Lords had exposure to the time vortex for a prolonged period of time.
@@Pir-o No she didn't. That is never explicitly stated. Her dna was more timelord than normal, and the church did experiments on her. It was never said what exactly gave her the ability to regenerate
Did you guys think that the time vortex gave river two hearts?
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Chris Chibnall...
Thanks for saving me money on merchandise that I no longer plan to buy...
Thanks for saving me time by no longer watching a show that I once loved...
And thanks for destroying the history and lore of a once great show...
Please end this mess ASAP, no one is watching it anymore, the ratings keep falling, ending it now would be a mercy killing!!!!
I think that the merchandise sales, such as they are, are going to take a big hit after this.
What have they done to this once amazing show
Brilliant 😂
hooray for chibs the idiot
This was once a beloved series with a huge fandom why would chibs do this?
In one episode Chibnall has managed to ruin the entire mythos, destroy the overall concept and overarching mystery of the show as a whole, remove all stakes for future stories as the Doctor is now immortal, created a thousand continuity problems in order to fix one that never needed fixing, has effectively sabotaged the characterization of both the main hero and villain of the franchise, and made the main character infinitely less relatable and interesting.
I don't think I could come up with a bigger failure if I tried. This is like bad fanfiction, which I suppose makes sense since this is quite literally Chibnall's bad childhood fanfiction being put to screen.
They pulled a god damn GOT season 8/Star wars 9 on us
Just because the Doctor has infinite regenerations doesn't make him immortal. The show has long established that you can be killed before regeneration takes place or is complete regardless of the number of regenerations you have left.
Cry harder. Doctor Who is literally built on the very circumvention you're deriding. The First Doctor's character was never a Time Lord, in fact, he explicitly described himself as a "wanderer in the fourth dimension, cut off from his people" and talked about one day returning to his civilisation. Every subsequent Doctor's era has ignored this detail, stating that he wanted to escape Gallifrey and had no desire to return "running away" being the new canon for the Doctor. Where's the umbrage about that? Oh right, it's non-existent because Doctor Who has no consistent canon, everything is in flux and changes based on the needs of whoever is in charge. Your outrage is completely out of proportion. It's a show for kids. Grow up.
@@jakeperkins153 ^this comment right here. 💯
People who write fanfiction would be insulted that you compared Chris Chibnall to them.
I'm quite surprised they didn't disable comments and likes/dislikes on this, all things considered.
Xd I know
Kaagh178 ye same to me the last doctor is peter
Any day now i bet
bcc not that bad
@@redm6195 Then you’re wrong.
Goodbye Dr Who , we had some great times together. But all things must come to an end , and i feel the end is now.
Judging by the TV ratings, a lot of people seem to have the same attitude as you.... The BBC are inept.
This song is ending now, but the story never ends.
Part of the journey is the end
And there's almost 60 years of lore down the toilet
Amazing, every word you just said was wrong 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@ajb1991.1 Oh, let's examine this rebuttal shall we:
Susan - "Well, I made up the name TARDIS from the initials" (except every other Gallifreyan time machine was called a TARDIS too - Maybe Susan was just that big of a trend setter)
The Doctor - "You can't rewrite history, not one line!" (except when you need to)
Ian - "His heart seems alright" (well, one of them is but what about the other one)
The Doctor "I've been renewed. It's part of the TARDIS" (except when any Time Lord regenerates anywhere else)
Daleks were mutated Kaleds (except when they were mutated Dals)
The Brigadier retired from UNIT in 1976 (three years before it was founded)
@@Stubert85 thank you for taking the time to examine my rebuttal. Means a lot ❤
@@ajb1991.1 My pleasure. It's a slow work day.
They didn't need an Origin story, the mystery is what kept the character interesting. This is like when Prometheus gave the Xenomorphs and origin.
Our limit of knowledge is that they were found at the boundary. No known planet, original era or reason of them being there.
Okay but the mystery now is the original species of the Doctor if they aren't native to Gallifrey.
@@mustarddoctor for me the question is why does he have all the spezials of time lords like 2 hearts. And why did the time lords tell her she is half human.... I mean honastly if u find this child and build ur society arounds it's abbilitys why don't tell the child just yes u are one of us.... Why tell him u are half our race and half human..... That makes no sense in my head ^^
Oh and when the doctor is this race that can regenerate naturally and as often as they want why can't his child and granddaughter do the same? They are at least half of her race.... (Susan from season 1 for example)
It's like when one Android invented them. It makes the aliens way less scary.
Dr Who fans probably won't know or care about the following: but a similar thing happened to the Character of Motoko Kusanagi in the animated TV series and the recent live action movie - nobody needed an origin story - it's tedious, and destroys mystery. An answer to a question that is best left unanswered. The mystery is part of the character, and yields far more possibilities than if some prosaic answer is found.
Donna, underneath The Thames: "Chinball, you can stop now!"
Whilst I was not surprised with this ”twist”, I still miss the idea that the Doctor was just some random Gallifreyan who got bored and decided to travel the universe. Now it just feels like the Doctor was destined for greatness and I don't like it
The series ended after season 10 the rest is a badly written fanfiction.
@@creepykidandinfinitedreams2987 peter capaldi did a great job the the writers quit
@@eolan7567 I agree he’s my favorite doctor
Yeah, I liked that The Doctor wasn't really anything special at first but just another Gallifreyan/Time Lord but now The Doctor is some kind of Immortal being from another Dimension...
@@GokuJR5467 yeah, I miss 1-10 doctors, all I see is badly written fanfiction when I watch season 11 and 12
Okay but Clara and the doctor himself went into his timeline and they didn't see any of this coming ? That's a little bit strange don't you think ?
And with tenneant he said when he and the master were children they both stared into the time vortex but as shown in this video the doctor looks older than a child
@@Carito-000 it was all a lie, they brainwashed him/her. the master still saw the time vortex though.
@@georgelinford5576 so the f in master was just brainwashed aswell even though he ascended to mad realm and should of regained those memorys of how he literally wasnt friends with the doctor plus why did the gallifrieans the people who built the laws of physics caste out magic defeated the great vampires and fought constanly to save history TOTURE A CHILD OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHEN THEY GOT REGENRATION FROM THE VAMPIRES NOT HER
@@wilmagregg3131 do you need a minute to sit down? I'm genuinely worried. I literally just said it was only the Doctor that gets brainwashed every 12 regenerations, and their childhood memories were all aspects of that fake brainwashing. The Master was obviously brainwashed into thinking he/her and the Doctor had all the fun they speak of to keep the lie going.
Well the doctors history of being the timeless child would have been wiped from memory, so it wouldn’t of been in the timeline
I preferred when the doctor was just a bloke, just a regular timelord that became the doctor
As did most of us James, then it all changed...... For the worse!
lordtrumpy yeah bc of fuckin “women’s rights” n that bs
The next doctors probs gonna be ginger, black, transgender and a women
Yep. The little guy who scored average marks and travelled and did some good.
Now the Doctor is becoming a demi god
Jack Shaw I’m creasssssiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Doctor's past is supposed to be a mystery, that's the whole reason why this show is called "Doctor Who". This retcon shows that Chris Chibnall has no regard for story and is only interested in virtue signalling.
Theres still a mystery as to where the Timeless Child originally came from. "Doctor Who" still applies.
In the future, a showrunner could say that The Master lied and the timeless child wasn’t The Doctor after all...and that the Ruth Doctor was some shit
@@HazarTulum No the name "Doctor ""Who"" " does not still apply, the mystery the doctors past was the mystery, we were never supposed to find out who he was before he stole the TARDIS, and to be honest In my personal opinion I think The Doctor was never supposed to be anyone special, just madman/woman in a box, passing through, helping out, learning... The Doctor never stops helping the universe, never sticks around long, and never asks to be thanked.. Now ith this revelation we know who The Doctor is, we may not know exactly where The Doctor came from when coming through the portal, But that really doesnt matter because obviously the people from the alternate dimension/universe The Doctor came from have not been looking for The Doctor or anything, it seems as if once arriving in our universe is the start of The Doctors life, so even if we do not have name (which with this being the origin The Doctor truly doesn't have a name) so it doesn't matter what the Doctors real name is because there never was a name, and even so if we were givin a name in this origin story it would still be the same, The Show is ruined because it is no longer a mystery of "Who?" is The Doctor, now we know Who The Doctor is, we just don't kno how many cycles of regeneration The Doctor has went through, and we dont know what dimension or universe Thr Doctor came from, all we know is who The Doctor is in the history and context to the story, so no reason in saying Doctor Who anymore because The Doctor is more than likely the real name name thats been used since before William Hartnell, because Chibball confirmed that The Fugitive Doctor was pre Hartnell, and was already going by the name "The Doctor" but since we now know who the doctor was, it doesn't matter if we have a name or not, we still know who the doctor was, and all the things that people keep saying ("This opens so many doors", or "The Doctors past is still a mystery", "what dimension did The Doctor come from") my answer to those questions are who cares... They should rename the show to "Doctor Where", because now we know "Who" the Doctor is..
@@DustinFerriss "No the name "Doctor ""Who"" " does not still apply, the mystery the doctors past was the mystery, we were never supposed to find out who he was before he stole the TARDIS"
By that logic, Moffat ruined that with Listen. And The Name of the Doctor. We saw the Doctor as a child, and the moment before he stole the TARDIS with Susan. So the name "Doctor Who" didn't apply back in 2013. Or did The War Games ruin that mystery? We finally learned that the Doctor was a Time Lord, whereas before we had no idea. We learned that he left his home planet because he was bored, did that ruin any mystery aswell?
"In my personal opinion I think The Doctor was never supposed to be anyone special, just madman/woman in a box, passing through, helping out, learning... The Doctor never stops helping the universe, never sticks around long, and never asks to be thanked"
Yeah, I agree. I prefer the Doctor being a nobody traveller who just helps out instead of this god like being, but remember the one rule about the matrix. The only logic is there isn't any logic. This is another potential origin story for the Doctor, because the Matrix can be tampered with, and it seems pretty clear to me that the Master wanted to distract the Doctor long enough to create his Cyber-Time Lords. What better way to distract the Doctor than throwing this huge revelation in her face? The point is, if you like this revelation, consider it canon, and if you don't, theres plenty of reason to disregard it.
"Now with this revelation we know who The Doctor is, we may not know exactly where The Doctor came from when coming through the portal"
Bingo! So we still don't know who the Doctor is!
"But that really doesnt matter because obviously the people from the alternate dimension/universe The Doctor came from have not been looking for The Doctor or anything"
So? Was there no mystery beforehand back during the Hartnell and Troughton era's when the Time Lords weren't looking for him?
"it seems as if once arriving in our universe is the start of The Doctors life, so even if we do not have name (which with this being the origin The Doctor truly doesn't have a name) so it doesn't matter what the Doctors real name is because there never was a name, and even so if we were givin a name in this origin story it would still be the same"
I would argue the Doctors life truly began when he stole the TARDIS from Gallifrey with Susan. His life before leaving Gallifrey isn't important, as a traveller exploring the universe throughout time and space is who the Doctor is. And let me ask you, if someone was adopted, does that mean the name they were given by their adopted parents isn't their true name?
"The Show is ruined because it is no longer a mystery of "Who?" is The Doctor, now we know Who The Doctor is, we just don't kno how many cycles of regeneration The Doctor has went through, and we dont know what dimension or universe Thr Doctor came from"
So "Doctor Who" still applies. Thank you for confirming that
all we know is who The Doctor is in the history and context to the story, so no reason in saying Doctor Who anymore because The Doctor is more than likely the real name name thats been used since before William Hartnell, because Chibball confirmed that The Fugitive Doctor was pre Hartnell, and was already going by the name "The Doctor"
Source? For all we know, she's a 6B Doctor who found out that she was the Timeless Child, so the Time Lords erased her memory and gave her one extra regeneration so that when the Doctor reached his/her 13th body, there wouldn't be any confusion as to why (s)he could regenerate
but since we now know who the doctor was, it doesn't matter if we have a name or not, we still know who the doctor was, and all the things that people keep saying ("This opens so many doors", or "The Doctors past is still a mystery", "what dimension did The Doctor come from") my answer to those questions are who cares... They should rename the show to "Doctor Where", because now we know "Who" the Doctor is.."
Damn, can't you break your word salad up into actual sentences? I personally agree that the argument of "this opens up more possibilities" doesn't make any sense, is changing the past really the best way to introduce new things to the show? The Time War changed the show, but that didn't alter what had come before. But the Doctor past is absolutely still a mystery, we just know now that there were bodies before Hartnell, and we know a bit more about what those bodies before Hartnell did. I haven't seen a *single* argument that convinces me that the shows mystery is over. Don't get me wrong, theres plenty to criticise about this story, but the Timeless Child revelation ruining the mystery of the show just isn't based in any reality
Skullcrusher430 no not doctor who, doctor why
The origin story nobody wanted. There is a reason it's called Doctor Who. When you take away the mystery you take away the wonder. Thanks BBC for ruining my childhood.
It doesn’t take away the mystery of the Doctor because the mystery of the Doctor is his/her real name
@@theretrorooster4626 No it isn't. That's a completely shallow reading if the mystery of Doctor Who.
This storyline literally adds to the mystery surrounding the Doctor’s true identity so I don’t see the issue?
@@theretrorooster4626 Does the mystery about the Doctors real name matter now? Now Chibnall has dredged up this pile of kak 'Timeless child' storyline, that question has become irrelevant
@@theretrorooster4626 The Doctor's real name is apparently not the one he was keeping secret for 57 years. According to the Gospel of St. Chris of Chibnall the biggest mystery of the series up until now was just part of a Time Lord cover-up and presumably doesn't really matter any more.
I like the idea of the Timeless child.
But I don't like the timeless child being the Doctor.
@Kaagh178 Yep, the whole Timeless Child can't actually work because of Clara in The Doctor's timeline and River Song.
@@deferguard7748 Yeah, and in 'The Sound of Drums', The Doctor recounts his experience as a 8 year old child gazing into the time vortex as part of an ancient time lord tradition.
Agrees. would be more fun if the doctor actually was the crazy doctor xD
YES!
i see your point there.
BBC you've Failed Doctor Who...... The next Showrunner NEEDS to Undo this and put WILLIAM HARTNELL back as the man born on Galifrey that becomes the first Doctor. 😬😬😬😬😬
Knightfall182 I hope it’s revealed down the line that it was a trick or miscommunication by either the master or the time lords or the computer records itself and it’s actually revealed to be the master which would explain why he always inexplicably returns or has weird powers like in the movie and end of time. If chibnall does it he’ll be forgiven in my eyes but if not I seriously hope the next show runner does.
Ironically, what you're calling the original idea was itself a retcon in the 70s.
Make someone wake up like its a dream
The only good thing about this current dr who is that so many people won't have seen how poor it's become. If you think the UK tv ratings are bad, they pale into insignificance when you see the final episode ratings in america. No one seems to be watching it, lucky them.
Thats because we was smart enough to stop watching this crap the BBC is pushing out. The majority of Dr Who fans here in America went back to watching classic Who..
Classic Doctor Who on DVD/Blu-ray for me. 🙂
Maybe I will tune back into the show when the BBC gets its head screwed on straight and retcons these two seasons out of existence & returns the Doctor to being a man straight out of Capaldi's regeneration. Which, by the way, should've been subtle as it was his first regeneration & we've seen that they only get more dramatic & explosive as you get closer to the final, 12th, regeneration.
Nor should they. If I lived in the US I'd be spoilt for choice with much better sci-fi on the excessive amount of TV channels they have...and not this woke dross on BBC America
Rian Johnson: I destroyed 40 years of Star Wars mythology in one movie.
Chris Chibnall: Hold my beer.
@Scooby McDooby 👍
The Rise of Skywalker wasn't good, but it shat completely and utterly on Rian Johnson and his abomination of a movie. For years the fans were told they didn't matter; it soon became clear to Disney that audience is money, and money talks. With luck the next show runner of Doctor Who will take an axe to Chibnall's abomination.
Atleast Star Wars is trying to say, that "If you want to be a hero, you shouldn't be born special"
While Doctor Who goes "If you want to be a hero, you SHOULD be born as special and being a hero is your destiny."
How dare you besmirch Rian Johnson by comparing him to... that?
@@bondfool As the OP implied, Chris Chibnall gave him a How To Wreck A Franchise masterclass.
Watched and loved this show since the 1960's. Purchased all the books, dvds etc.
No more, it's dead.
But what makes it so sad is the BBC do not care.
They do not make entertainment any more. Just vehicles for their propaganda.
I submitted a complaint. The reply boiled down to "tough, we will do what we want"
RIP Doctor Who 1963-2017.
Flash forward to Series 14 (Written by new show runner after series 13 scores record low viewing figures and critical ratings.)
'But Doctor, aren't you the Timeless Child? And what about the destruction of Gallifrey?'
'No, that was some bull crap made up by the Master. And the destroyed Gallifrey was just a very elaborate perception filter. Now, let's go meet Jim Morrison and have an adventure!'
That would be brilliant. Never has a retcon been so badly needed.
"No, it was dream. And there were only three Indiana Jones movies, too."
This is honestly disgusting this ep well done Chris for killing off doctor who
Ikr
It ruined everything
The BBC's statement defending this fanfiction pissed me off again. I was going through my books and found A Brief History of Time Lords. My heart felt heavy.
It didnt kill off DW.
@listen2meokidoki What a ridiculous statement. To not see how ridiculous that is you'd have to be as stupid as a Trump supporter. You are just pushing Islamophobic trash. I suppose u hate Punjab for saying what happened. Partisian did cause huge riots in which many died.
The Timeless Children? More like The Clueless Showrunner/Writer
Here's a much better list of origins that keeps to the spirit of what had been established: ua-cam.com/play/PLnz8giR6uGEfp-x2xBoVzD8DOwAqZu7at.html
Old Chinball needs to stop writing for this show. Then again, once the license gets tossed out and brexit finishes BBC will be broke so they will have to change their tune or close the doors.
And a BBC who doesn't give a shyte about fans seeing their statement defending this fanfiction. In other words "Eff You."
Doctor Who? Doctor Poo.
This is why u don't put betas in positions of power. They say yes to any idea just to make people happy. Sometimes in a writers meeting the word NO should be in the script
This was so indescribably awful. This potentially massive, lore transforming twist is dumped on the audience in 10 mins of exposition. It’s the epitome of lazy writing. This is something that should’ve been woven into multiple episodes and stories, series even. It could’ve been slowly uncovered and discovered by the Doctor and audience alike. We should’ve been made to feel something for this Timeless Child. Then maybe it could’ve been accepted by the audience, welcomed even. Instead anyone with half a brain can see this for what it is. A poor excuse at an attempt to be daring and mix things up. Pathetic. An incredible disservice to 57 years of the show. I, as well as many many others, will not be watching any more of this utter drivel
There have been some really good fan alternative takes on this which are way better than this shit....I mean everyone knew from the moment "The Lameless Migrant" was mentioned it was going to be the Doctor. It makes me laugh when some NuWho fans act all suprised about it???? WTF? ahahahahaa
@Findlay Robertson Any real fan? Im a fan and I dont mind it. You arent the gatekeeper of the fandom.
@@marky437 The Migrant... yep, youre a racist. Using migrant as a term of offence.
MrThorfan64 U are a real fan and enjoyed it? Then u must be 12 years old and even shipped Rose/Ten as a couple lmao
@@GLBizzie Im in my 20s. I did not ship them as a couple. Dont make assumptions like this. People can like different things, there is no need to go out of your way to b unpleasant
Why would you wreck this Iconic programme?
why would anyone wreck such a classic
It hurt so much watching Chib Chib ruin the Doctor as a character in one swift cut
Two cuts if you count The Timeless Child.
Remember simpler times with 10 and Rose....
lee 11 amy and Rory 10 and Donna 10 and rose like you said good times heck I’d even take Clara over the companions we have now
Yes....yes I do, let’s have a moment of silence for what was
Hello namesake
And yes, those were good times.
I'm so thankful we had those seasons. I rewatch the good stuff when this era gets on my nerves, it's somewhat therapeutic.
Mr Bruh what’s wrong with Clara? I liked her in the series. Heck that was the only thing that kept me into DR who for number 11 and 12
It's all a bad dream
Well I hope it's a bad dream
Oh no it's real
R.I.P DOCTOR WHO 1963 to 2017
Doctor Who was dead during 5 years. But next year the show will be back with Russell T Davies as the showrunner and David Tennant as the Doctor ! And Catherine Tate as Donna Noble 😁
Hopefully it turns out these last two series were a regenerative fever dream of Capaldi.
Catherine Read that’s my head canon
I never ever wanted to learn the origins of the Doctor.
@@ciarantimothy8081 why its stupid and goes against the show the point of it being a mystery is that fans and peoples imaginations and theories will always be more interesting than what s writer could come up with and how true that rings now
This will become THE case study on why the licence fee was ended..
Do you want the licence fee to be ended?!
It's quite amusing to see the self-congratulatory tone of the video title, compared to the tenor of the comments.
This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction.
Fan fiction would be better written, this is Faux Who.
That's unfair to people who have written and recorded exceptional fan fiction.
@@debonaire_nerd I wouldn't quite say so. There are plenty of fan-fiction stories I declare cannon; The Ten Doctors, Exausted Supplies, the short-stories by Christopher Thompson, All these I will continue to call Cannon until the sun burns out of the sky.
This however, is something that's officially licensed, and yet I'm calling it fan-fiction.
I hope that clears things up. :)
@@carealoo744 Makes sense :)
On that note: can ANYBODY please edit the ending to Twice Upon a Time where the credits roll just before Jodie Whitaker's form is revealed? I accept that episode as a bookend to the overall series as a story about a Timelord coming to terms with his own mortality.
@@debonaire_nerd Brilliant! Honestly, I want there to be an edit where we keep the Jodie Whittaker reveal, but we then cut to black and she says: 'Aw, Still not Ginger.'
Doctor Who will return after another 16 year hiatus.
Hey, if anyone's interested, I'm reviewing all the Doctor Who stories on my channel, with me just having uploaded my review of: 'Planet of the Spiders (1974)!' No pressure, of-course; It just might be worth checking out! :)
Doesn't line up with the existing canon at all
That's the point. Now that we have figured the origin, Chibnall can make a lot more storyline. Everyone should be thankful. He has just made a completely new path for the Doctor
@@HOTD108_ how?
@Whom Yeah, kind of and that's it and that was meant to set up a movie which was cancelled. It's been non-Canon ever since. Still don't work at all.
@Whom I just think it's such an insult to the show we all love. I would never even risk alienating the fans. I miss when it was a fun, campy adventure through space and time. That's the show we all fell in love with.
@@PoissonVisageStudios Agreed. That was what drawn me to the show in the first place. The romance of Time Travel, visiting worlds, fun and adventure not this fantasy style fanfiction.
An explanation that literally nobody asked for, nobody wanted, and completely changes the main character, thanks chipnall, thank you for ruining my favorite show.
BBC needs to fire Chris Chibnall immediately.
Can we not do the whole "The Doctor is the key to or the secret of, everything" thing?
Like, the Doctor is the Doctor, but also that hybrid thing, earth's special helper, the timeless child, the most special person in all creation (given Moffats endless speeches through side characters etc.) and I can't even think what else. Its exhausting.
No, the doctor is still the doctor. Obviously special, yet going her own way, concerned with earth and doing good. This changes nothing, she even says so at the end. The Master broke the viewers, not The Doctor. A bit of backstory revealed is great, even if it messes with what you think the doctor should be.
Mathieu Thielemans idk, I kind of like the Doctor being ‘a mad man who stole a box’. I was hoping this whole ‘the one’ trope died out. It kind of ruined the character for me.
@@tierk4328 There's probably a whole bunch of OG timelords through that interdimensional portal, so she's not really the one, she's just the one the timelords used. It only adds a villainy backstory to the timelords (who were already somewhat dodgy) and some context for how the doctor fits in that. She's always been an outsider, now there's a reason. She'll remain timelordy, because she was raised that way. I dont understand how any of that ruins the character of the doctor. Unless she starts behaving differently ofcourse :)
@@MrMatenizer Sorry but this only reduced Jodie's incarnation into the something special trope that oddly was a main criticism with RTD and Moffat's female companions.
@@einezcrespo2107If anything, the fact that there's real dramatic change to the story, makes it so Jodie Whitacker can show her true acting chops. I loved her dialogues with The Master, they both did a stellar job performing. It gave her the chance to give depth to the performace. I'd also argue the whole thing is one big trope. Sci-fi at its finest is pretty tropey, it's the humanity in the dialogue and reactions that usually make it worthwhile, atleast to me.
I honestly would of preferred anything but this being the doctor.
Would have. Please. Remember it. Would. Have.
Yeah me to, but you got to admit, the new cybermen designs were cool.
Shark = jumped.
Doctor: ''It's Tuesday again?''
They didn't just jump the shark, they flew a giant rocket over it.
@@Vereid
Doctor: ''Oh, Friday then.''
Jimmies = *RUSTLED*
But, we established the ability to regenerate was from generations of time travel and exposure to the time vortex.
But that doesn't fit with Chibnalls 2020 politics so he had to make Gallifrey be formed by a strong female character.
I love how it's titled "finally revealed" as if the fans were waiting for this to be revealed...
Cheers Chibnall for ruining a programme I've followed since I was old enough to watch a tv.
You didn’t need to click on it....
megamehmeho you didn’t need to reply
@@tailshhgaming94 well maybe they need to know why you did it in the first place
@@erased4042 because I can
Mind to explain why u hate it so much? I see a lot of people hating on that season but they dont usually explainit
Oh how diverse, how stunning, how brave.
@Little Normani Why would you assume that its criticism? Is it because you know by experience that people are fed up by artificial and shallow diversity?
They had a black guy play the Doctor for a few seconds!
Why tf are you making such a big deal over something as trivial as race. I swear yall are almost as whiny as the pc culture
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller You dont know it was for diversity reasons. You're just jumping to conclusions here. From how I see it the only reason Chibbs did this was for shock value or to bring something to the table as the past season was lacking anything.
@@JoeWebb-TheStoryteller Unless if it is hinted at diversity shouldn't be the thought you come to.
Nobody wanted this. And the worst thing is the BBC don’t care. In my eyes Capaldi died and the show ended there.
The Doctor and Clara are still asleep with the face huggers feeding off of them
Pavel Malý no because then masterpieces like heaven sent and world enough and time didn’t happen.
I feel the same way; that is why I'm working on a fan fiction after Capaldi. In my own way and trying to keep it as close to Doctor Who as possible.
SAME
@Rants and Ramblings im mixed race and i didn't like that the timelords can change race and gender, they just did it for the sake of diversity
"A story about a bored alien who grew up in privilege, but decided to rebel against their stuffy and regimented society to go have adventures and meet and befriend people? That sounds really lame. Like, super lame! Who would want to watch that? Now, here is my cool story about a alien with a special destiny, who had super-duper special powers; so special in fact that they gave birth to the society they rebelled against!" - Chris Chibnall, probably
According to Chibnall's interview, he came to idea of Timeless Child in his childhood.
So yes, this is basically what he thought when he started to write his bad fanfiction.
@@deferguard7748 It's pretty rich that he was literally on TV complaining about the Colin Baker era of Doctor Who when he's honestly managed to eclipse every bad element of that era, despite having 1000 times the budget and a BBC that wasn't actively trying to kill the show.
@@deferguard7748 You'd never guess a teenager came up with it, would you.
@@deferguard7748 Seriously? He bulldozed one of the greatest things on British TV just to satisfy the chip on his shoulder? All so mad little Chumpy can have his way.
@@SimonFoston I know about the thing that he came up with the Timeless Child in his childhood. That also explains the quality of this plot twist.
Oh, man, look at that like:dislike ratio
It's beautiful.
What a joke. I think I'm only going to watch *1963 - 1989* and *2005 - 2017* Doctor Who from now on. It's time walk away from this travesty.
Skipping the Paul McGann 1996 film?
@@Deathlygunn Oh yehh... I like the opening with Sylvester McCoy... and Paul McGann is cool.
@@Deathlygunn Yeah... the movie is kind of shit... remember how terrible the Master was and how odd they made the Daleks? McGann was good though.
Nope, until it is re-written I am sticking to audios and the eras above.
Benedict J Larkin 👏 👏 👏 👏
This is just a giant piece of fanfic.
Sad thing is...It's not even good fan fiction
@@DaBigIsh Seriously though.
It's a giant piece of something.
This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction. This is fan-fiction.
no, it's canon, get over it
The original creators of dr who must be turning in their graves. Has this writer not seen the three doctors or the five doctors? This speech destroyed everything that has happened since 1963
Kaagh178 Russell destroyed Gallifrey but it's lore and history still remained intact. But this not only re destroys Gallifrey (Day of the Doctor is pointless now) but destroys its history and lore along with it.
Kaagh178 Russel was awesome though.
Doctor who died in 2017. I'm sorry BBC. You need better writers
I completely agree
"A man is the sum of his memories, A Time Lord even more so" - no longer a timelord :-(
He’s still a time lord just one of the first although this is still terrible
abysmal series and end plot, you have basically screwed over the history of the doctor, in one episode, like what all terminator fans are saying about dark fate screwing up T2.
chris should be sacked as of today after that crap. he directed an actor to be a master at his worst he is just a idiotic buffoon, the old master would be turning in their graves if they were alive still. basically the doctor can live forever and ever but the universe has been eradicated by a war we did not see, and no humans apart from about 8 exist any more. so how can the doctor series continue with no one to help or save any more, oh and shes been locked up for life too. where the hell was jack harkness in all this, you put him in as a savior and just did not bother with him again. complete mess.
Dark fate didn't screw up t2 at all.
@@alexnorth3393 i know that but nearly everyone else thinks it did, its the one biggest complaint.
Alex North well actually Dark fate made T2 seem pointless. But it flopped so it’s not cannon.
@@ultimatepaine6401 how was it pointless do you really think that machines would just give up at the first attempt to take over the world, the world was saved at the end of T2 so id did work and was finished, this takes over from after the finished event. so it has not spoiled T2 at all, it all still happened and they won the war. what happens next is how the machines reacted to T2. its ot a great movie but it never spoiled T2 it devastated T3 though. now there never was a female terminator after john.
Malcolm place they didn’t give up hence why there was a terminator 2. But DF makes it pointless to have John be protected, if being the savior of humanity can just be passed on.
The line “ fate is not what but what we make it” becomes meaningless.
This show was once my fav thing in the whole world , my friends used to actually get super mad at me for talking about doctor who too much , loved every doctor and every showruner ...i got sad when a doctor regenerated and i was happy when the new doctor came in but not with jodies doctor and chris running the show .. it doesn't feel like doctor who anymore and it makes me depressed tbh , this show was my happiness through the dark days of my life ..i haven't watched the new season i only watched the ep of when captain jack came back and i skipped to his scene , i hate saying this but i'd rather see the show canceled than see it being dragged through the mud like this .
I think most fans agree with you on that, I'd rather see this show die out completely than watch it go on while they keep adding their feminist politics to the show and alienating all the old fans.
Blame it on the directors of the show.
But I think the Master in my opinion lied to the doctor for some reason. Also, the first doctor is William Hartman so I assume the doctor is male from the beginning
@Cubicnoir oh well all blame him for it I hated the timeless child and the fact that we get the time lords back and he goes you know what I want them dead again it's the day of the new special 14th and rtd are starting us back on the right track and give us back real doctor who hope the master did lie cause that would make make it work and add to the doctor or make it fade away like 8ths quote lol
When I die, I can at least be happy that I made two wise decisions in my life: leaving my abusive ex and dropping Doctor Who like a dead weight at the beginning of Series 12. This is ludicrous, it's amateurish, it's a hack tacitly admitting that they can't write a story, so they instead resort to the storytelling equivalent of parlor tricks.
Oooouuuuch.
Worse than parlor tricks. It's shadow puppets and it's infantile. The Doctor has never been infantile. I just want to know who hates The Doctor so much that they would do this and why. I want everyone to at least know that.
I'm surprised you waited till series 12. I could see the woke crap and weak writing take over as soon as Pearl Mackie joined the cast and ditched as the very beginning of series 10
@@michaeldavies7949 series 10 had fantastic writing
@@Vis1786 Name one episode where she did not thrust her sexuality in the viewers face? ENOUGH ALREADY WE KNOW!!
This is the biggest insult to Doctor Who and William Hartnell’s legacy. As far as I’m concerned Doctor Who died in 2017.
I didn’t enjoyed Series 9 as much as i enjoyed all Others but i still enjoyed it.. I even got used to a female Master/Missy but THIS right here? Just cancel this show already ffs
@@GLBizzie I was honestly Suprised at the master being a girl but I got used to it but this. This is not ok
Toxic fans are toxic.
This was a good story. Explains why there are so many doctors when there was supposed to be a limit.
Some people won't be satisfied with anything but stale yet familiar content. I'm glad they're taking risks and being bold.
Just so Mr. Chibnall is clear, the question: "Doctor Who?" Was never supposed to be answered! The Doctor is supposed to be mysterious. That's the basically the whole point of the show. This just totally ruined that. We didn't need or want to know the "origins of the Doctor". We haven't needed or wanted to know that for 57 years. Yes, the question does come up from time to time. But that question is what makes it interesting. Now that we supposedly have the answer that question, the show isn't entertaining anymore. Also. What the heck with this writing? If I wanted strange stories with HUGE build up that affects essentially nothing long term, I'd go to Wattpad. Sry, but I kinda wish the show just died with Capaldi now.🤷♀️☹
This is the episode where the franchise died. I used to be a fan, but the writing is so bad now that I refuse to punish myself by watching another season. Please hire a new writer
No one cares 🤣 cry elsewhere
CaptainCrimsonCC what a nasty sentiment.
CaptainCrimsonCC whatever you say NPC. Still salty about Sonic beating BOP?
Yeah Doctor Who hasn’t been amazing since Tennant, but not bad enough to make me quit. I’m done until Hacknall is replaced now.
Sparx632 Smith and Capaldi had some good moments. But the writing for Whittaker is awful.
Doctor who comments: 90% people hating it, 10% people bullying anyone who says anything bad about it
Erin Howe yes, I’ve noticed this too. Pretty sad state of affairs.
Cam Bar agreed
@@teacupalice "YOU MUST LIKE IT OR ELSE!" lol
YES! Totally accurate.
AWResistance REEEEEE!!!
"What’s weird here is that Gallifrey already has its Celestial Intervention Agency, a secret service designed to covertly interfere in other worlds’ affairs, and they don’t get so much as namechecked here. So much of what we learn in this episode comes from ignoring established continuity only to replace it with things that are basically the same - The Division instead of the CIA, Tecteun instead of Rassilon. These feel like changes for change’s sake, rather than being necessary alterations to canon so that the story of the Timeless Child could make sense."
Den of Geek.
That is if we assume we know the exact whole story. The Division could be a former name of the CIA (Tardis wikia writers suggest so too). About Rassilon, the Master said the founding fathers of Gallifrey lied to the Time Lords (or at least exaggerated which is somewhat known) - fits Rassilon's megalomania. History is written by the victors, they say.
Chris wanted some credit, so just wrote a bunch of bollocks and changed names.
@@alon_2303 But what was the point of lying, when it was almost beat for beat the original story of Gallifrey?
You have to bare in mind, if chibnall told Whittaker not to watch any of the old doctor who’s then why would he? You have a show runner and a main character who have ignored 50+ years worth of research so they could make something “fresh and diverse”
That dislike ratio gives me hope, honestly the BBC don't deserve dr who
I have seen every episode from Classic to NuWho.
I have listened to most audios of my favorite characters.
I loved this show thoroughly, so believe me when i say that i'm only filled with rage and hate for this horrible retcon season that spit on Doctor Who's history without even worrying about the plot holes (not that the absence of them would make it any better).
Chibnall has no respect, i have read he is already confirmed for a new season. I won't be there to watch it.
Thank god that rtd is returning, hopefully he can turn this mess around, even if its something lazy like "oh doctor it was just a prank" or anything At all
@@xuavy5036 RTD needs to reverse this whole mess that Chibnall made
@@raginbakin1430 no, actually, he doesn't. I hate this as much as the next guy, but I do not want any more time spent on it whatsoever. Just move on. Forget about it. Pretend it never happened. Doctor Who's continuity is fluid. This absolute mistake never has to be acknowledged again.
CONGRATULATIONS, BBC! You've destroyed Doctor Who.
David Good no they didn’t
Looking forward to Boris getting rid of this ridiculous licence fee. Then the BBC will actually have to care.
@@brandyreid3196 yes they did.
In what way did they Ruin it. IN WHAT WAY
Oblong Man 50+ Years of lore gone down the drain.
Worst Doctor. Worst writer. Worst reveal/plotline.
This trifecto of forces are that powerfully bad THIS may cause a rupture in time and space for real!!
For me Series 6 was one of the worst seasons tbh but after watching Series 11/12.. Bruh i found some NEw appericiance for Series 6 lmao
Still waiting for the reapers to put us out our misery
As a POC myself... why would you answer the question of "Doctor who?"!
Well, that hasn't exactly been answered, if anything we know even less about the doctor now
it didn't answer the question this episode has made the doctor more mysterious than before
@@sonicD1999 it did answer some of the mystery only to be replaced by other mystery. i think it was just pointless.
@Little Normani i think he means point of character. in that case the traveler who took the timeless child.
@Little Normani oh wait never mind.
I hope this is retconned so that the Master is the Timeless Child. It makes way more sense.
Or just no timeless child. Retcon the whole thing. Although the master being the timeless child would at least make a bit more sense.
Not quite
They should’ve given Chibnall his own show called ‘The Timeless Child’ instead of giving him a decent show to ruin. I think the acting was decent tbh. Just the writing that was rubbish. The actors just had to do as they were told.
So the Doctor is not only no longer a Man, but now he’s not even a Timelord either?
Roy Fokker for a non english point of view he isn't british anymore
The fact u feel u should criticise them not being a man demonstrates u decided in advance to hate Whittaker.
MrThorfan64 i mean whittaker is doing fine with what she has. Besides the visuals and sounddesign are good. Chibnail and the BBC are the problem, whittaker would flourish with a good script.
the doc is the reason the time lords exist, they’re descendants basically, so where the doc actually originates from opens up a new origins story, don’t you think this all adds a new layer of mystery to the doctor at all? is called doctor who after all. but as someone else mentioned,, it could get retconned at some point.
@@jasoncartlidge154 No. That "mystery" you claim there is more of was built on shitting on the entire series and continuity. That's the main reason people are upset. It ruins most of Doctor Who as a show cause now nothing makes sense. As i've seen before, this story wouldn't have been complete garbage had they not made the Doctor the kid. If it was some random kid, it wouldn't have ruined all of the history of the show.
Only decent thing about this episode was the master shame his actor had to be the master during this era imagine him as Matt smiths master might’ve fit actually
I couldn’t agree more, I love Sacha playing the new master I wish he wasn’t associated with this dumpster fire.
He is great and I hope he can play master in a new producer era!
@Mr Bruh I agree I can imagine that.
Absolutely agree
My names not shane kid
Everyone disliked that
Didn’t time lords became time lords through prolong exposure to the one vortex. I remember from the episode a Goodman goes to war. Sounds a bit silly when I hear myself
The regenerative ability was created by Rassilon and he did limit it to 13, except on himself. Apparently the key to it was taken from one of the great vampires.
But that's all in Big Finish audios, so Idk if that holds any credibility 🤷
I have never disliked a video in all my years watching UA-cam but this has pushed me to that point.
With the next incarnation we will find out: Master lied; there is no timeless child; the doctor is not special; destruction of Gallifrey was a hoax; additional female doctor was part of masters plan to drive the doctor crazy.
A new showrunner can heal that mess.
I already like your ideas better than Chinball's! 👍
Although I agree it can be retconned in the future, it won't sadly, because no one left at the BBC has any balls anymore. They'll double down on it if anything.
This was just a bad decision. Literally all this revelation does is open up gigantic plot holes in the last 50 years of Doctor Who, and this knowledge doesn't even add anything.
Hopefully the next season will disrespectfully retcon and ignore everything from this season, just like these seasons have done with the previous.
this is one of those videos where you wonder who would ever like this
Grew up with this show, this was like watching someone drag out a beloved childhood icon and brutally murdering them snuff style on live tv.
Did they just imply the Doctor was murdered multiple times as a child?
Yes, by a woman who then turned into a young black man..... You couldn't make this stuff up, except they did ugh!
@@lordtrumpy not just a woman, the woman that was her adopted mum!!!!! mother of the year award???
By a “strong” women.
Serious Mummy issues then
The BBC should be ashamed of itself for standing behind this crap and not having the balls to fire Chibnall after season 11.
@Xtra Spice Mikey They are using public money so they have nothing to lose, defund the BBC and let the open market sort these bottom feeders out.
Time to fire the BBC then.
The worse thing about the “timeless child” is it changes nothing (going forward). We were promised a reality altering, “this changes everything”, reveal that would make Doctor Who more interesting and expand on Gallifrey. We got a fanfic of a story which only accomplishes retconning the Doctor and Gallifrey’s past, but changes basically nothing for the Doctor. Going forward this just means there are more past incarnations the Doctor could run into. It’d be somewhat interesting if the pre Hartnell Doctors were evil or had a different set personality, but they butchered that possibly with the Ruth reveal which now shows the Doctor always was and always will be the Doctor. Going forward this just means the Doctor has infinite regenerations (that has been a possibly since 11 got a new cycle as they never said how many regenerations he got) and a new title. Going backward this retcons the established lore which will just piss off old fans. This reveal either does nothing for you or makes you want to stop watching Doctor Who. The worst thing is, really competent and good writers could have made some interesting storylines with this had it been executed better. I’d love to see the doctor with different names (like The Conqueror) and personalities for different sets of lives. A twist like the Master and Doctor working against evil past incarnations of the Doctor would have been cool. I’d even love the opportunity for BBC to explore the adventures of pre Hartnell Doctors at times when the main series is on break; I’d go ecstatic if they put those episodes in black and white. Instead we get Chibnall.
Also if all they were going to do is have the master tell the Doctor, they could have done that in the second episode of the series. Building, hinting at, and then having the Doctor figure out for herself what the timeless child was would have been interesting (and in line with what the master said in spy fall part 2). Her spending the whole episode needing the Master to explain every little detail to her was just sad.
except that its sets up doctor who for the future so they can flip between men and women and all different races playing the doctor
It does mean that The Doctor has unlimited regeneration energy and should be able to shoot blasts of it out her arms like 11 did to destroy the Dalek ship when he was regenerating, no reason not to now. And The Doctor should be able to insta-heal everyone around her too like 11 did to River when she broke her wrist.
I hope it’s revealed down the line that it was a trick or miscommunication by either the master or the time lords or the computer records itself and it’s actually revealed to be the master which would explain why he always inexplicably returns or has weird powers like in the movie and end of time. If chibnall does it he’ll be forgiven in my eyes but if not I seriously hope the next show runner does.
bruce wayne time lords could do that anyway. This doesn’t change that.
It also goes against the mini episodes released before the 50th anniversary special.
William Hartnell played The First Doctor. End of.
Anything past Capaldi isn't canon
Not anymore! Now the doctor was all the diverse things before Hartnell. If you don't like it, nobody cares. If you are British, your taxes are funding this garbage. Right now Chris is wiping his ass with our money while writing ANOTHER season of this drivel. If you liked the classic series, your opinion is officially wrong.
5 minutes of TV that killed 57 years of Doctor Who.