@@WesMordine but he wasn’t making up story along the way without a foundation. He was making changes here and there along the way with OT and PT but ST is different. They literally have no foundation. They just make up story without anything/any plan at all. Even after 7 is released, ep 9 doesn’t have any plan at all. Not even a draft or a brainstorm. That’s a red flag.
@@Theo-bk6qj no, that's how art works. The artists follow their muse. That's how Lucas decided to save Darth Vader (first name Darth, surname Vader), by someone else's suggestion, despite him just being a very secondary antagonist who has about 13 minutes total screentime and originally dying at the Death Star. Oops... he kinda made HIM the main character. That wasn't the plan AT ALL. That's how Lucas decided while filming that Obi-Wan should die, although that wasn't on his script. And because of it, he had to come up with Yoda. That's how Lucas decided Leia and Luke were twins, because the "there is another" line allowed him to, despite it not being the plan at all. Its just how the creative process works, and creators shouldn't need to get permission from the audience to follow their own ideas. Star Wars is at disadvantage because the fans think they have some kind of ownership over it (which we don't).
@@WesMordine He only improvised because there was nothing to begin with. The prequels WERE planned out hence why they tell a better story. The Original Trilogy reeks of improvisation, due to how things come out of the blue incomprehensively, but the prequels knew ahead of time where the story would go, and so everything fits seamlesly. Above all else, George Lucas' improvisation of the originals was an extremely risky move. He is lucky to have a consistent philosophy, style and charm put in his works, that can at least give them a semi-harmonious flow. The sequels have no excuse. They litterally had more foundation than all the other films combined. They have access to a style, worldbuilding, music theory, message, and philosphical theme more distinct than any ither sequel could ever DREAM to work with. They just didn't use it. They CHOSE not to use it. They chose not to use it because they believed people would enjoy nostalgia over a good plot, and would litterally cater to the public's opinion, which doesn't take a genius or an artist to immediately know this is a terrible idea. People want different things, people like different things, people say different things. Indirectly asking a litteral BILLION people what they want for the next one and letting the director do with it is just opening the floodgates of fucking Pandora's DAM. Disney doesn't want to tell a story, it wants to sell one. No plan. No opinion. Just nostalgia bait.
The use of the Imperial March theme when Luke takes off Vader’s mask actually does make sense: it’s slow and sort of fades out, thus it represents the Empire disappearing, symbolized by Anakin abandoning Vader’s mask once and for all.
Pretty much! Also I think the reason why the opening theme is no longer associated with Luke is not only because of his evolution as a character, but also the theme is no longer associated with him but the Resistance. The early Jedi (Qui Gon, Obi Wan, et al.) and their allies (Padme, Bail, etc.) were the small stirrings of the Resistance that was to come with Luke, Leia, Han, and anybody associated with them. Where the Empire falls, the Resistance remains.
Another audio cue for Vader abandoning the mask that is much more visceral in the Radio Drama, is that the "Vader" voice of James Earl Jones is replaced by the voice of the actor wearing the suit once the mask comes off. He doesn't just abandon the mask of Vader, he abandons the voice, the theme, and the entire identity. Which is why the imperial march fades out, as the identity and persona of Darth Vader dies, to be replaced once more by Anakin Skywalker.
Especially with the flutes. It's very ephemeral, like smoke dissipating. Like you said, the evaporation of the Empire as a force of power in the galaxy.
Lord commander John Williams, first of his name, lord of the leitmotifs, keeper of the scores, crafter of compositions and master of maestros Amazingly put man 😂
SPOILER WARNING (just in case) Some things feel like they're compensating based on audience reaction - Chewie getting a medal some thirty-five years later (in-universe) comes to mind, as does the offhand Holdo Maneuver justification. Others, like Ben's arc, don't - if Abrams and Terrio had been looking at the fanbase's expectations, they wouldn't have written the ending like that. It makes me think that in the grand scheme of things, they probably weren't compensating based on audience reaction. Johnson and Abrams also probably didn't have the same idea in mind for the ending, but neither were focused on how the audience was going to react to it.
I wish Sideways called him the Master Lord Commander, because that is who John Williams is, and I actually saw him in person recently at the Tanglewood Festival in Berkshires in July.
Fun fact: Williams has stated that when scoring for the original Star Wars, he wrote a piece anticipating a climactic love scene between Luke and Leia, because at the time, he didn't know they were siblings.
Neither did George, and you can tell by the deleted scene in Empire with the two of them getting all romantic. People like to shit on Disney for not planning anything even though George didn't either, he didn't even know that he would get to do a sequel.
@@MrEffectfilmsThat's not comparable at all. George did have a rough outline of where he wanted the story to go. He was unsure if Star Wars would be a hit, so he made the movie as a self-contained story. When it did prove successful, he went ahead with the other ideas he had laid out. Disney didn't have a plan. They made their trilogy film by film based on audience reactions. J.J. Plagiarisms did a whole video debunking this false equivalence. Even if neither had a plan, that doesn't help Disney's case, as their unplanned disaster wouldn't compare to Lucas's unplanned masterpiece. Not to mention, you can't tell that from the deleted scene in Empire, as in the same movie, Han and Leia get romantic, so even in the back of his mind, Lucas was thinking of not having Luke and Leia end up together. And don't say "you" as if no one will wildly object to your statement. Not everyone is as unobservant as you.
@@imfsresidentotaku9699 Dude wtf is wrong with you. If you don't agree with me that's fine but insulting me for no reason is uncalled for. This is why I just don't respond to Sequel trilogy hate anymore, it's become acceptable to be horrible to people who are just trying to offer their own perspective. Read my comment, I never insulted anyone, I was never mean to anyone, I just offered my POV. The majority of your response was actually fine and I'll even admit you made some good points I hadn't considered, but that last bit was just uncalled for.
@@imfsresidentotaku9699 That's not true either. If you read the Rinzler books, (Making of Star Wars, Empire, Jedi), you'll see that Lucas didn't have much of an outline at all. Everything changed between movies, to the point that Mark Hamill threw a tantrum because he didn't get the girl and didn't get to do as many heroics as he was promised. Harrison Ford kept asking for his character to be killed off, and initially he was supposed to die between movies when frozen. That's why Empire ends on a cliffhanger and the promise that "there is another", because Lucas was trying to figure out exactly who was going to take the series further. Luke and Leia were initially lovers, Han would die, the Millenium Falcon would be destroyed along with Lando and Chewie in the final battle, and, in the end, Luke was supposed to disappear into the galaxy in a bittersweet ending. Star Wars has always, always, always been made up as it goes along.
@@user-zo8nl9be5l actually no, Ian Mccamird (I don't remember how to spell his name xD) said that only a year ago (like september 2018) he received a call from JJ saying that they were PLAINING to bring the emperor back so it was not smth anticipated at all
It generally shows that JJ was planning things, and that he probably told John Williams what he was planning, and then the middle movie generally took a dump on everything he had planned, so the third movie had to try and fix all that.
@@SanguineRoku TROS didnt have to fix anything. there were so many interesting places they could have gone. instead they converted two years of incel rage into a script.
@@eighteen-naked-cowboys Not sure what's sadder, that you think there was interesting places to go after Last Jedi cut off all the branches, or that you're a deluded SJW who thinks anyone who didn't like this garbage trilogy are "incels".
jear What interesting places? I don’t blame The Rise of Skywalker or it’s crew for how shit the movie turned out. It’s no wonder, since they had no where to go from TLJ, since it ended off with basically nothing to keep up interest and resolve.
Another cool thing that proves John Williams is the king of motifs: The first three notes of Rey’s theme coincide with the last three notes of Kylo rens theme, kind of as the video stated. But, in across the stars (Anakin and Padmes theme), you can hear that the notes, played backwards, are the same three notes in Kylo ren and Rey’s theme. In this link it shows it better than I can explain with words ua-cam.com/video/d54PPJWTpY4/v-deo.html Another super cool thing from the score was in the moment Rey catches the lightsaber and Kylo and Rey team up. In this moment, the force theme plays incredibly powerfully. You can find this moment around 1:14 in “A New Alliance” from the last Jedi score. Not only does it play there, but in the force awakens score when Rey strikes down Kylo ren in the forest and escapes, the exact same version of the force theme plays. John plays the same theme twice to show the differences in the scene, I believe, and it shows how it went from Rey striking down Kylo with hate to Rey teaming up with Ben to fight off the guards. Gosh John is such a legend The last Jedi was full of great musical moments, but I completely agree that the force theme should have been played less, to make it more sentimental to fans. But, I guess they do want us to let the past die *ba dum tsh* I’m off my musical nerd soap box now. Thanks for the great video, sideways!
I just realized... music aside, The Last Jedi was trying to force that down our throats: "Let the past die", again and again. I just realized why. They started the Disney Trilogy with item after item of "that thing you really like from Star wars? It's gone now." Luke is missing, the Empire is gone, the Rebellion is gone. In fact, look here at all the things from before lying in ruins on this planet you've never heard of. we've destroyed all the stuff you liked. And there was some negativity around that, because we wanted more Star wars, not just the exact same Star wars with new names. Like Rogue One. That was very much more Star wars. TFA was just Star wars again. TLJ was ironically clinging to the old Star wars plot elements, while telling you to let go of the old Star wars. And literally wasting half its run time on a meaningless story arc. I for one do not mean to let the past die. The past was the good part. Rogue One was good because it lived in the past (and other reasons). TFA is literally a bad fanfiction. TLJ is a bad fanfiction of that bad fanfiction.
TheOtherGuys2 I think that for the audiences that don’t know the original trilogy, especially the younger ones, it was a good movie. I enjoyed TLJ solely for the reason it was letting the past die. I found it interesting that they were taking it into new places and doing things that were so unexpected. Sure, there were flaws, but you gotta admit, the casino scene was visually amazing. I think, personally, that it was a good movie because of the message it sent. Failure. Everyone in this movie fails at some point or time. That can speak to so many people in this day and age. And even though the past is dying, it is time for a change. I think Disney and Lucasfilm realizes that they can’t just hold on to these characters forever, especially after getting backlash that TFA was “too similar to ANH”. For me, the movie was great. I enjoyed so many parts of it, from the amazing cinematography to the crazy plot twists (My snoke theory sucked but honestly he wasn’t super interesting to me either) to the absolutely great music we got from John Williams (can you tell I love him yet) Anyways, you’re entitled to your own opinion. Not everyone liked the movie, not everyone disliked the movie. But I agree, the past is dying. And to me, that’s what made it great. I think we can both agree that the music is pretty awesome though 😉
The part about A New Alliance being the same as the Kylo vs Rey music is simply not true. I just listened to both songs... in Kylo vs Ren it's not even the Force theme, never mind "the exact same version"
I actually really like how - chronologically - Obi Wan didn't "earn" a leitmotif until after the fall of the jedi. During the Clone Wars, the Force Theme was all over the place because there were tons of great warriors, so Obi Wan was just one of many. But after Order 66, he (and Yoda I guess) are the only ones left, so he inherits the leitmotif, personally carrying on the jedi legacy. Then, after his death--in some sense, the end of the Jedi Order as presented to the audience--the theme continues as the Force's Theme. It moved from the the jedi (plural) theme to THE jedi (singular) theme to what the jedi dedicated themselves to, the Force. Maybe it's a bending of typical leitmotif rules, but I find it very satisfying in terms of narrative.
Your sad devotion to that ancient movie franchise hasn't helped you conjure up excitement for the sequel franchise nor has it given you clairvoyance to appease fans of Starwa-ghgjskjgh
notabot 2001 what’s sad is that almost every single prediction of the future of this saga has come correct in that the UA-camrs have predicted Disney’s complete failure of Star Wars. Literally any other company could have pulled off a better job. What’s sad is that George Lucas was completely disheartened by the response to the prequels and has mentioned several times he will never direct another Star Wars film ;(
Luca Henry the main problem is different directors for episodes 7 and 8 Because J.J. Abrams probably had a plan for the new trilogy and then, Rian Johnson came and threw away all of Abrams’ ideas, then when Abrams came back to the directing, he decided to revenge, and he did the same thing to Jonson Because of all that there is no complete story in sequels And also some story lines were broken, so there is no consistency of the story especially between episodes 8 and 9 Imao:)
hmmm... they put palpatines theme in reys, and now years later we find out shes his granddaughter so clearly they knew what they were doing. People just cant get over the shitty visual quality of the original movies
I cackled when you said "Disney has no idea what they're doing." This video was brilliant, and makes me actually want to see this movie now (I don't care about spoilers). Thank you!
GamingRanger Knowing the plot of a movie does not ruin the movie, not by a long shot. If that was the case, we wouldn't rewatch our favorite films over and over again. Films are not suddenly worthless just because the plot is revealed, and frankly it's getting pretty old seeing everyone on the internet treating "spoilers" like the plague.
GamingRanger Have you ever watched a movie more than once, for no other reason than you enjoy the experience? If you answer yes, then your argument is invalid.
Truly admirable for how many Iconic Themes John Williams was able to create. And with The Rise of Skywalker out for a while now the revelation Rey was a Palpatine actually fits perfectly within her main theme brilliantly, along with the subtle hints at which she was a descendant of Palpatine given she had gone straight to darkness, and Made quick jabs, but in the end like most other heroes was able to set aside her true name, and inherit the essence of a Skywalker. Credit where credit is due John Williams knew exactly what he was doing when Disney-Lucasfilm executives clearly had no idea. It’s gonna be a dark time for Star Wars once John Williams is gone, but his beautifully composed themes will never be forgotten.
When did the other heroes set aside their true name?? And becoming the essence of a Skywalker is kinda demeaning, tbh; like Rey has no value in-verse as a person or jedi unless she is somehow associated with Skywalkeryness. 99.9% of other jedi who ever existed had nothing to do with them, so... wha??
there is still hope for the music of star wars through the golden trio of goransson, giaccino, and kiner. 3 men who understand the majesty and wonder of star wars' soundscape like few other than williams truly do.
Han and Leia’s theme playing in the trailer for The Force Awakens actually makes some sense. It’s foreshadowing the fact that Kylo Ren, the main villain of the movie, is their son.
15:05 "the Lord commander knew that disny did not what they were doing, so he made theme that would fit no matter what happens" that is what made me realize this guy is a genuinely a smart dude
I’m going to try and make my own hypothesis, based on what I’ve learned from your videos, on why the imperial march plays when Vader redeems himself in RotJ. If you notice, the Imperial March is usually played by brass instruments to represent power and strength, however when it plays at the end of RotJ when Vader redeems itself, it’s played with lighter strings and woodwinds. Furthermore, it fades away as the mask is being pulled off. I believe this is supposed to represent the Empire being weakened and then destroyed, to symbolize the rebels triumph over the Empire.
General Red I like that. I always figured that the hollow sound given by the strings and woodwinds symbolizes both the death of Darth Vader (an agent of the Empire) and showing what the Empire and the Dark Side have done to him (as reinforced in RotS)
I've figured that several themes within the STAR WARS series have multiple purposes. For example, the Imperial March represents _both_ Vader and the Empire, and is even used as a theme for the Galactic Republic in Episode II. The "Force Theme" has famously never really had a name, and has been called that, as well as Binary Sunset, Obi-Wan's Theme, and the Throne Room Music because of its many different uses already within the original film. It _is_ basically the secondary theme of STAR WARS.
@@johnhooyer3101 When I search "galactic republic" with literally any other things such as "attack of the clones" in my search for what you're talking about, the ONLY result is the Grand Army of the Republic Theme. That song is most definitely NOT the Imperial March... like, at all... Please link with what you're talking about.
@@Richard_Nickerson It was a while ago that I read about this, so I don't know where the link was, but it wasn't necessarily presented as an ironclad association. The point that was being made is that John Williams's themes tend to evolve and and grow connections to new ideas, not explicitly but in that mysterious way that music communicates without saying a word. As for the Grand Army of the Republic theme, I always saw that as a leitmoteif for the clones and the Clone Wars as a whole, but not necessarily a theme conveying the authority commanding them itself. If you want to go with the extended universe, there is a galactic theme called "All Stars Burn as One", but it isn't in the films and isn't a John Williams composition, and is no longer canon. So officially, there is no actual anthem, and people are free to interpret that however they like based off of how the music speaks to them in the films, as well as statements from supplementary materials that they may give credence to.
@@johnhooyer3101 So... you have no proof for your claim, so now you're going from saying it's a definite thing to people are allowed to interpret things the way they want. You said it was exactly the same. I said I can't find anything by that name, and what I could find is nowhere near the same. Now you're trying to say people can interpret things how they want... Don't make claims you can't prove, don't make claims that are so easily disproved. Don't simply try to backtrack, just admit you were wrong. Your comment has 3 likes... you've given at least 3 people completely incorrect information with no basis and they could now be spreading this misinformation themselves. Is it a super important thing? No, it's Star Wars music. But spreading misinformation in general is wrong and should be called out.
"The Disney marketing team has lost all sense of subtlety and grace" - yeah, that about sums it up right there. A series with little direction being sold as the next great masterpiece of film, running on the fumes of nostalgia and corporate marketing.
Basically what I'm thinking. There are several themes in _STAR WARS_ that represent both characters and ideas at the same time. The theme discussed in this video actually has no name, because it's simultaneously known as Obi-Wan's Theme, Binary Sunset, the Force Theme, and the Throne Room Music. It has secondary and even tertiary uses, and really does functionally serve as the secondary theme for STAR WARS.
Erik Woods but it should have been put in A New Hope but not the prequels. A New Hope has the original imperial theme which was used in Rogue One when you see Vader.
Yes, there is an original motif for the Empire in Star Wars. The Imperial March is more of a theme for Vader but gets doubled up as a theme for the Empire post-A New Hope. As for its use in the prequels.... Again, it's used mostly as a theme for Vader... however, it is, IMO, incorrectly used during the final scene in Attack of the Clones when the clone tropers are taking off from Coruscant. That should have been, IMO, a grand statement of The Emperors theme and not The Imperial March.
The "overuse" of the Force theme in the sequel trilogy might be related, in my opinion, to the protagonism the Force itself has in this trilogy. What we are supposed to be witnessing is the story of its will (because it has awakened, and it "created" Rey to compensate Kylo). Moreover, I belive that Han & the princess is played to refer to Ben Solo.
It's satisfying in a horrible way to hear people hinting that George Lucas had no clue what he was doing and Star Wars as a whole is just a lucky mess made good enough by people working hard behind the scenes to make up for others' failures.
The worldbuilding was all on him though, which I thought was very good. I love the sequels, but for the most part, the worldbuilding has been lackluster compared to the OT and the prequels.
It's not that he didn't have a clue, but that things change over development. For anyone who is interested, I highly recommend Sfdebris' behind the scenes Analysis of the making of the Star wars Movies: Hero's Journey on the original, Shadow's Journey on Empire and Jedi, and the currently on-going Hermit's Journey on the prequels
George Lucas is bad at making up ideas. See example: the prequels, because Lucas surrounded himself with people who refused to criticise any of his awful decisions throughout the creation of the prequels, so all of his ideas were put into the movies. The movies are therefore shit.
Disney knows this: its why they gave a trilogy to Rian Johnson. Kathleen Kennedy is not going to be shepherding her creative vision for this sequel trilogy. They need one voice to rule over them all, its how the OT was successful.
I was so mad about them not using the Binary Sunset theme during Luke’s use of the force in ep. 8! I picked up on how much they used it to tie in the “force” theme... I agree with this so much
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. They DID rewrite some stuff to focus more "on the new characters", whatever that means, but I can't imagine Rian changing everything that in the script.
K-Riddle93 New Star Wars don't get test screened with audiences for fear of spoilers. And Rian was hired before production was over, so there wasn't even an in-house rough cut available yet
PolarPhantom Rian started working on TLJ before TFA was even filming, and I think principle photography already started shortly after it was released so they had the story planned out and were building sets long after anything could be drastically changed. Also, why would Disney have listened to the people who hated TFA when that was a very small portion of the audience.
Interestingly, we've now received news that John Williams will be returning to work on 'Solo: A Star Wars Story,' but seemingly only for Han's theme. This is intriguing cause it brings to light that Han doesn't really have a musical identity throughout the Original Trilogy.
I like your analysis, but I have to disagree on some points. In an interview from 1977, Williams has stated: "I think of Ben’s theme as also being the theme of the Jedi Knights, the Old Republic that ben remembers. It also overlaps into the area of being the theme for the Force, the good Force that Ben represents.", so he planned to use it as a Force theme pretty much since the first movie. He also referred to the Imperial March as the theme for both the Empire and Darth Vader on many occassions - even in interviews from 1979 and 1980, you can find them in Rinzler's books about making Star Wars movies, so it wasn't a forced prequel retcon. So yeah, although the stress would have been put on different aspects depending on the movie, you can see that it was natural for him from the very beginnig to use one theme to represent various concepts.
SPOILER ALERT What he says about Rey’s and Kylo’s themes being similar when played backwards, representing them as equals and opposites, makes even more sense now that we know they’re a dyad in the Force.
So my biggest disagreeance with what he's saying is how "disney thinks that the foce theme is the main theme now" I think it's completely appropriate! 1. The movie was literally called "The FORCE awakens", and in "the last jedi", the first half of the movie was ENTIRELY about (learning to use) the force. and after that, there was still HUGE emphasis on the force being used. Previous movies had the jedi use the force as a tool. The last two movies (far more so 8 than 7) were pivotally focused on the force.
True. I did not pay attention to it while watching, so maybe it was overused, but I didn't notice. I also think playing the force theme during the force projection would've been a dead giveaway. But I'm just nitpicking really, great analysis on the whole.
Even in Force Awakens...it was used with a lot less subtlety. Like, its not horrible or anything (it makes sense for someone who's passionate for music to call it out tho) but just when compared to how the original 6 movies handled it...it could have been done better...
Overall I really liked The Last Jedi but there was some musical decisions (which I unfortunately think were asked for by Rian Johnson) that seemed a little overwrought - something about the way Vader's theme played when Snoke mentioned him just seemed a little on the nose somehow
Totally agree. Especially since Sideways points out that the "Main Theme" is actually Luke's theme, wouldn't it be weird for the trailers/movies to focus on his theme when he's not the center of the story?
11:01 I don’t think it’s misleading. I think it’s representing the last thing representing the Empire in Anakin leaving him: his suit that he’s worn almost the whole time he’s been Darth Vader
... Or maybe John Williams just writes the same kinds of melodies over and over. Just sayin'. The man is a genius but he definitely has his go-to sounds.
i know right? in a guitarist's perspective, i can say we all have our favorite go to licks that we pull out of the bag, just like our idols that's why we there are times we can recognize the guitarist due to their "signature sound" and i guess that kind of thinking applies to john williams. they make it that way to make it sound nostalgic, and to make it sound like it's star wars. it's not gonna have the same nostalgic effect if they're gonna put it music that won't be familiar to the ear.
John Williams has his go-to sounds when making certain kinds of films, and I've noticed that _STAR WARS_ is definitely designed so that everything sounds related. Like, the Rebellion is Reborn theme sounds very much related to Yoda's Theme and Anakin's Theme . But then, on the other hand, I've listened to Williams score for _Catch Me If You Can,_ _Schindler's List,_ _Lincoln,_ _Saving Private Ryan,_ _Memoirs of a Geisha,_ _The Book Thief,_ _Close Encounters of the Third Kind,_ and a bunch of other films, and multiple Olympic games, and when you look at his entire folio, he has a lot of variety. I can often tell when a good piece of music is _not_ by him (for example, _La La Land_ is good but definitely not _quite_ how he would compose something, except for perhaps Mia and Sebastian's Theme), but it's also clear from the complexity of his orchestrations that he knows exactly what he's doing when two pieces sound similar to each other, _especially_ when they're within the same ongoing story.
2:24 Fun fact! My mom watched the prequels with me kinda there when I was like 3. I remember almost nothing from those sittings, but one thing I do remember is this one red shot, and I am 100% certain that it was because of the music
I remember really, really loving the Han Solo and the Princess theme song during the trailer for the Force Awakens - at that time we had no idea of Kyle's heritage and it just was such a huge clue right in our faces. I remember saying to my twin ''Why are they using this theme?'' we were super confused but thinking back at it it was such a clever move.
Huh, I thought that Rey's origins in the 9th film came out of nowhere but it was really planned all along, that's super cool. And no one really seemed to have picked up on it apart from a few music experts!
I mean in 7 Rey uses a similar charging stance as Palpatine's lunge in the arrest scene in 3. She was also born extremely adept in the force but untrained. You can see how Kylo is of similar power while his grandfather too had a high midichlorian count from Anakin. I think Rey's force powers are similar to Kylo's since Palpatine is the most powerful force user in history but Rey is untrained. Of course Anakin was the light side equal to that of Palpatine when combined with the much lesser power overall from the rest of the Jedi Order. I choose to think that the trained offspring of Anakin Skywalker can match the untrained offspring of Palpatine. I drew this conclusion from the Voice Actor of Kanan Jarrus (I forget how to spell it) when he ranted on a podcast how balance in the force is essentially a numerical value in the light/dark battle of the universe.
I don’t think it was necessarily planned all along, considering there were 2 separate directors that had 2 different views on the story of the “sequel trilogy.” A lot of people were not too fond of Rian Johnson’s The Last Jedi and when they brought back J.J. Abrams for Episode IX, Abrams had to essentially fix the problem with the story, but when writing the plot for IX, Abrams knew that Palpatine would have to make a return. While George Lucas was still working on the original trilogy in the 80s, he stated that he had enough material for 3 earlier films and 3 later films, making a total of 9 films. In his outlined material for the saga, he wanted the Palpatine to make a return in the 9th episode. Although Abrams didn’t initially know how he would implement the resurrection of Palpatine, he did, and he wanted the plot twist of making Rey, his grand-daughter.
I would love to see a sequel to this episode after you have the possibility to see and dissect the music in episode 9 and how lord commander John Williams was able to mould Rey's theme as well as the score in general.
How to fix the minor issues in the PT (according to someone with no musical experience) Have the Force Theme be Qui-Gon's theme, then when he dies have it then be Obi-Wan's theme, Qui-Gon passing the mantle *as* the Force Theme Then when you get to the OT, it's Ob-Wan passing the Force Theme onto Luke, so it rhymes, like poetry And remove Luke's theme in the few instances where it's used
About Disney using the Force theme in promotional pieces...you do know that TV spots, trailers, etc., are all handled by third parties, right? Disney sends over clips of the film for use and the trailer company can do pretty much anything with it with regards to the trailer’s design. Why would they not jump on the chance to use the Force theme?
Well because Williams' can't decide Rey's parentage, Kylo and Reys' connection, etc. But Disney can. He can only be prepared to have those themes fit and make sense no matter what they pick. Which is pretty awesome.
I was thinking more specifically when he accuses Disney of overusing the force theme. Marketing aside, for all we know Williams decided to make the force theme big in the new trilogy, but because Sideways doesn't approve of that decision it's automatically cast as Disney, not 'genius composer John Williams'. Additionally the evidence that there was no planning for future episodes is pretty scant, I mean it could be but the case isn't that compelling either way. This is a musical version of the too many fantheories problem which people seem to have, where based on pretty out there theories people were wedded to ideas about who Rey's parents are. An alternative hypothesis might be a) Disney has a plan and williams knows about it b) he made Rey and Kylo's themes retrograde of each other to represent their yin yang relationship which is a big deal in the new movie, c) The match with the Imperial march was designed for Kylo who works as a new incarnation of the empire/vader, and this resulted in Rey's theme also fitting with the march.
He seems to be part of the RLM Hivemind of people that loathe Lucas AND loathe Disney but somehow claim to be fans of Star Wars* (*just New Hope and Empire Strikes Back of course, the other seven are awful!)
Yeah, I love how his bitching about the Force Theme is explained as if Disney doesn't understand the property, when in reality it's Williams who was the one that decided to use it that much. This is the problem with any Star Wars film: Fans think they know *exactly* how the next one should go, and will tear apart the tiniest pieces that don't fit. They forget that Lucas was making it all up as he went along and treat the OT as if they're seamless(Disney might not have a fully mapped out plan, but at least we can safely assume we won't find out Finn and Rose are actually siblings and that their kiss at the end was creepy af). And worst of all, Star Wars fans forget that Star Wars is a film series that needs to take into account general audience reaction. The main theme gets used so little not because Lucas and Disney don't know what they're doing, but because it's just easier to work The Force Theme into different scenes without distracting audiences. You can tone down the main theme, but everyone is still going to immediately associate it with the bombastic version that has accompanied every opening crawl in the series. It needs to be used sparingly because it is DISTRACTING, and requires a lot of rewriting to fit. The Force Theme fits into different scenes more easily, can represent more emotions, and is just as iconic.
You're full of shit. People hate the new Star Wars because the story wasnt executed well. It has nothing to do with the typical age old argument of accusing fans of not having their theories confirmed. Star Wars 8 could have been the most amazing movie of the series if a little more time and thought went into how the story they were trying to tell was written. I was fine with concepts that were introduced, I was fine with Lukes character PROVIDING that it was done in a way that was meaningful.
Rian Johanson was writing and directing episode 8 before esisode 7 came out. And I think Rey’s parents being nobodies was a great idea. But I agree there should be a bigger plan.
I don't get why a lot of people are pissed about a character who shows us you don't have to be pushed out of the right vagina to be an awesome hero. She reminds me of Kyle Katarn.
It was established for a long time that anyone could be born to have a special relationship with the Force. The Jedi, after all, apparently found children born with it all of the time. The key issue is mainly that the Skywalkers are canonically far more powerful than anyone else in the Galaxy because they have some sort of special destiny with the Force, and I don't quite understand how Rey is consistently more powerful than them without even trying. The theme of a person coming from nowhere from no parents of any reknown was already covered in Anakin, and it was already established that he was the Chosen One with a special destiny for balancing the Force (and by extension, I suppose, his progeny, according to statements by Lucas and Kennedy), so having Rey come from nowhere is a little redundant and kind of undercuts the narrative over seven episodes that the Skywalker family drama was really building up to something. The other reason why I don't quite like her being from nowhere is that, if you watch the saga as one film as Lucas often said was his intention for it, it would be pretty weird to suddenly replace all of the characters a third of the way through with someone unrelated to anything that happened previously within the story. That's generally not how stories are told. Otherwise, I like the movie and will defend it against what critics have to say, because I don't have time for that kind of negativity. I'm also not too upset with the reveal of Rey's parents, because the story isn't over yet and it could easily be that Ben was wrong.
Rey most likely has parents. It's obvious she will and that Kylo was telling her she was nobody and her parents were nobodies to get her to lean on him and join him. John Boyega also said in an interview to please let the Obi wan theory go and that he has our backs as the parents will be pleasing to us.
I can understand why many see Rey having great powers especially comparative to that of the Skywalkers can be a bit odd, but keep in mind, we shouldn't be too surprised if the force acts much strangely in others despite what others may talk about it when it comes to prophecies or old lore, because the whole point of the force is that it is something unpredictable, unimaginable, and completely supernatural. So don't be surprised if new great lineages and familylines are born over the course of many years. Hell, look at others who came from stories outside of prophecies who were mega powerful in their force abilities. Look at Yoda, or Revan, or hell, even some of the most well-known and loved characters from the original EU that has seemed to inspire many parts of Canon, including Kyle Katarn, aka basically just another kid with family issues and separated from his father who decided to quit being a Stormtrooper, fight for the rebellion, become a student of Luke's, and eventually realize his true potential and all the powers he had to begin with, making him one of the most powerful and legendary Jedis ever. So good for Rey that she seems to be embodying what Kyle Katarn stood for in this new canon storyline, while at the same time writing her character so that she is actually unique in how she is self-obsessed, self-hating, can't accept her past, depressed, lonely, and at points cowardly, but instead through her struggles and tribulations and seeing how others such as Ren suffer the same fate as her, decides to use her issues to try and help others instead of just letting them suffer. Aka why some of my favorite scenes in Star Wars cinematic history are the interactions she has with Ren in The Last Jedi.
I'm still hoping for some indication as to what the Force Awakening actually means. As of right now, it's a Deus Ex Machina used to swipe aside old characters and replace them with new ones that are cooler without having to do much work for it (although I won't really call Rey a Mary Sue, since Mary Sues are poorly written and only endearing because the author tells you so, whereas Rey is genuinely someone you can sympathize with and root for). I'm okay with the Force being mysterious, but I also think that it should be consistent; it will finish anything that it sets out to start. That is, if there was a Chosen One, there has to be some narrative follow-up to that prophecy, since otherwise Anakin's destiny is still incomplete and the entire first six episodes of the saga are similar to the Canto Bight sequence, a giant narrative detour. Although I will actually defend the Canto Bight sequence as well, oddly enough. For the record, I never really liked the old EU canon and didn't like Revan. Yoda made sense, since he was incredibly old and wise and more trained than Anakin ever was, and also it was indicated that he was quantifiably the Jedi with the second-highest potential after Anakin (which I know, that's because of a discussion about midi-chlorians that ticks people off, but it's canon). As for Dark Lords seeming more powerful than the Skywalkers, it's usually indicated that a) they have access to secret knowledge, and b) the Dark Side _seems_ more powerful but in reality is only easier. So Sidious and Snoke made sense. Perhaps Rey channels the dark far more than she imagines. The movie certainly indicates that, and if that's the case, I'd like to see that theme more fully addressed. Is that why she's able to master various Force abilities in one day, when it normally takes Jedi years? In any case, I want to see definitive resolution to the Skywalkers' calling. If they're the Chosen Ones, and basically the great mediators for the Force, then at some point I want to see them fulfill a destiny related to this identity, because narratively, if you're watching the saga in a marathon, that's what makes sense.
This video towards the end aged like fine wine and you pointed out how the franchise was approaching the movies by the score itself. Good content, keep it up!
When I saw that you made this vid, I went to see The Last Jedi today just so I could see your vid without worrying about spoiler. I won’t lie. I think this movie is getting WAY more hate than it deserves. I understand why fans are mad about what they did to Luke’s character but honestly I think it was about as good as episode 7.
I don't get it either. I honestly think a lot of people just have their heads so far up in their ass with fan theories and minutiae that they are unable to remember that these are movies first-and-foremost and that they won't necessarily go in the direction you want them to. Look at how annoyed this guy seemed about the Force theme supplanting the main theme, when it's more likely a result of practicality than Disney "not getting it." The Force Theme is equally iconic, can fit tons of different scenes more easily, and hasn't blared at the audience in full bombastic glory at the beginning of every Star Wars film. No matter how you rearrange it, if the main theme is recognizable it will be far more distracting than the Force Theme is unless you want to emphasize the action and adventure in the scene(and even then, it's SO iconic and bound up with the start of a Star Wars film it could be distracting). I wasn't a huge fan of Luke's character in this episode either(especially towards the beginning), but it works and makes sense as one perfectly valid direction to take the character. Just because I wouldn't have chosen it doesn't mean it literally ruins the character and the film is stupid.
It makes no sense from a narrative point of view. I dont think anyone had a problem with Luke being the way he was portrayed, you simply have to have a good enough narrative that can explain that, and frankly what WAS presented was not executed very well. The man who was ready to sacrifice himself for a father he knew all of about 15 minutes, would never just kill his own nephew for having dark side problems .... at least, not without a very good reason. Thats the whole thing, people arent made about the result they are mad about the reasoning behind that result, and I think a lot of them just have trouble articulating it.
Max Acree The issue here was that they didn't show just what it was that Luke saw in his vision regarding Ben Solo. If they had shown us and it had been super fucked up, I don't think people would have as many problems with it. I, for one, loved the movie, but I do see its flaws.
Wow! I think you nailed it! Although I'm not formally trained, I dabble in composition (and have scored my own short films), and I find your videos immensely helpful to that end, as well! Thanks!
Excellent video, but it seems as though the problem you point out with the new trilogy was just as true for the original trilogy: Williams didn’t know what was coming. Williams composed the themes for ANH not knowing that Luke and Vader and Leia were related, that Vader would turn good, etc. You quote him saying he didn’t even know there would be a sequel, and you deduce that he had to repurpose Obi-Wan’s theme later. So how was he in a worse spot when he had to compose for TFA? It would seem like a better spot, even, since from a business standpoint he knows it’s a trilogy, and from an artistic standpoint he probably got some hints, like you said, like “Rey and Kylo are connected.”
Relatedly, it's hard to take "Disney doesn't have a plan!" as some sign of incompetence or evil corporate apathy when we're talking about the same series whose most beloved installment involves a kiss and romantic tension between two characters we find out are siblings in a future film. As great as the OT is, Lucas had no real plan at all either, and made up a lot of it as he went along(and it shows a LOT, guaranteed far worse than the ST ever will).
Gwen C Yeah, despite Lucas’s claims, it’s clear that he didn’t have it all planned beforehand. He didn’t know who was related to whom, he didn’t know who was going to die, he didn’t know what Jabba looked like, until he needed to. (Which is great, because it means it’s possible to make a classic series one movie at a time.)
We can be eternally thankful that Irvin Kershner directed Empire Strikes Back. He was the one who pushed for more character development, better dialogues, and a more intricate story - basically redefining what *is* Star Wars: not just a simple archetype tale with groundbreaking design (thanks to Ralph McQuarrie's concepts and ILM). Some of it was planned by Lucas, but I really wonder how much of it made it on screen. It's the movie he had the least to do with. I'm pretty sure that Episode 5 defined the SW mythos more than A New Hope originally did.
5:29 Well the fisrt appearence is the beggining of the story, the second is the start of a battle that completely changes the situation of the story, and the third starts the OT
@@colleencasey5327 I'm mostly just giving an excuse to myself so that I don't give my hopes up for a video on the movie, but I suppose you could say that.
Wow, very interesting points! Rey's theme has become a new favorite of mine and I have a two-piece opinion, one half being more objective, the other a subjective impression. So the objective part was formulated after watching your video and it's in fact in line with what my impression of the character has been so far. It's that she's had both the light and dark sides of the Force. In TLJ, both Rey and Kylo, for a large part of the story, were hanging in the balance somewhere between Light and Dark. There were even parts where the sides seemed turned: When Rey was explaining her dark cave experience to Kylo, she sounded kind of let down, someone who has lost her way while Kylo seemed to be patient, wise and comforting. So my idea is that Rey's theme represents that premise, that dual potential. Because effectively, going to the Light side was Rey's conscious choice. She had only cared about her friends and the Resistance up to the pivotal point of the throne room fight. And there, when they were standing atop the corpses in the burning throne room, for a few brief moments, it seemed like Rey might just go over to join Kylo on the Dark side. But it was also entirely possible that Kylo would come over or they would somehow meet in the middle of the bridge and form something new, relying on both sides of the Force. It wasn't "burning down the past" what affected Rey, I think she was ready to accept the facts about her ancestry and looking to the future. I think it was the next sentences, when kylo said something about bringing new "order" to the galaxy, and "rule" together, that he finally stepped back towards the Dark side and pushed Rey back, her realizing that it wasn't the path she wanted to take and finally taking her place on the Light side. So up to that choice, Rey going either Light or Dark were both possibilities, and maybe that's what this duality in her theme represents. The subjective part is more like a preference or an impression. Up to the end of TRJ, the six movies that had happened brought about heavy dramatic arcs but also a lot of baggage. War, politics, corruption and redemption, the passing of an entire era, and the almost complete demise of both Jedi and Sith sides. So when I first saw Rey scavenging in the ruins of the past, and heard her theme, it resonated with me because it kind of represented new begginings. It sounded like the chime-like sounds of a trickling mountain stream. And maybe that's what the Force was in TFA. Literally, what the title suggested - The Force awakening. But the Force might be like a mountain stream. During the events of the previous installments, drastic things happened throughout the galaxy. So if the Force is a stream, landslides and earthquakes closed up its source and buried its bed. But then, through the rubble and the ruins, the stream emerges. Somewhere else, from a new source, from somewhere unexpected, carving out a new bed for itself. Things change, but life goes on, new sapplings start to grow on the stream's banks, a new forest around a new mountain stream. The water finds its mysterious ways to the surface and continues to support life, changed but unhindered by the calamities of the past. The source, the riverbed, the course of the stream, everything changes - The fresh water itself and the continous flow however, is the same. So that was my impression throughout TFA, Rey being that source of the new stream, trickling down the mountain slopes, appearing again where no one was expecting it.
I always found the “Luke theme” as you call it, more or less, serves as a theme for the heroes, so it’s more of a “hero or heroic theme” so when anyone does something heroic or the heroes show up that “Star Wars theme” comes up. Symbolizes Force, the good guys. And specifically used for Luke in the original movies, and in the prequels and new trilogy for the “heroes” and Luke.
Disney has a hands-off policy with Lucasfilm, just like it does with Pixar and Marvel. I would be surprised if John Williams were not making the musical decisions in conjunction with the directors. Beyond that, let's not forget that these film ideas were largely worked out in a writer's room, so no, these movies are not a surprise to Lucasfilm just because the audience was surprised.
First of all, HUGE fan of this channel. I'm a fellow neck beardy music lover and I'm sure you've heard this before, but I would LOVE to see an episode or even a series on the music I'm Game of Thrones! I haven't spent a ton of time really digging into it, but I think you could really dig into how they use the "Rains of Castamere" theme in conjunction with the Lannisters and the good/bad things that happen to them.
I don’t get why Disney’s getting shit here. Why would John Williams be acclaimed for writting the music, but whenever the music doesn’t fit, Disney are the ones to blame. I really liked TLJ musically, although, I’d have eased on the Force theme. I think this new trilogy’s leitmotifs are great, the resistance march, the Kylo Ren theme, Rose’s theme etc. I’m pretty sure Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams/Disney aren’t dictating stuff to Williams, after all, he’s writting the music, he’s conducting. Fans overanalysing stuff shouldn’t count when criticizing movies. Rey’s parents being nobodies is exactly what’s great about the Last Jedi. Restarting fresh, hope, and the past having to be buried are the biggest themes in here, so her coming from nowhere, having no « precious blood » (vs. Ren, who’s the last Skywalker) is exactly what’s cool about this new trilogy. (Even Ren wants to bury the past). (Oh and Abrams gave his approval to Johnson about the script) Anyway, great stuff as always, even though I don’t agree with your points about Disney’s decisions/involvment in the music, I really appreciate your videos and am looking forward to more videos in 2018!
Catherine H. a) I don’t see how me commenting that suggests that my mom fucks people for a living b) where did I say that Ren « deserved » to be a Skywalker more than Rey? c) Parentage doesn’t have to do with « merit », you don’t choose/deserve your parent d) Rey being a Skywalker would have been the easiest narrative decision they’d have ever done. And it would have made no sense(eg: Is now Luke someone who would abandon a child? Some people already hate him being « isolated/sad/done with the force », if on top of that, he would have sold a kid... e) her coming from nowhere is what’s interesting about this trilogy, how would there be an « awakening » if she would be a Skywalker So anyway, i don’t expect you to underatand, if you were stupid enough to wish for Rey to be a Skywalker when watching TLJ, you’re pretty much too far gone. Have a good day.
It’s almost like Williams knew Disney had no idea what they were doing and covered every possible base he could. Although I did hear palpatines theme in Rey’s ostinato in the theater and thought (huh that’s weird, though I go have an undergrad in music with theory and composition emphasis).
Yeah, it did become more and more apparent as the sequel trilogy went on that Disney were making it by the seat of their pants, and didn't have a concrete plan they could stick with. Pretty neat how Williams managed to accommodate that.
My goodness, the stuff you are able to take from the musical themes, I'm completely blown away! Also I have so much more respect for JW now wow. I have no doubt that this is exactly what went down XD
OK, so I just saw the 9th movie (not gonna lie, enjoyed it,) but I recognized that they were making this up as they went along due to story beats and things I heard on the internet suddenly coming true. And now I'm watching this, and you were able to figure this out ahead of time. The more I watch your videos the more I realize that music, well utilized, is one of the greatest tools for storytelling, foreshadowing, and, conceivably, plot twists. So, if ever by some crazy twist of fate I am able to put together a story production, I will want to dedicate a lot of my funds to a great composer. XD
Did anyone else get chills? Seriously. I got choked up a bunch of times during this video. I love Star Wars music... It's magical to talk about which tunes go with which characters.
@7:32 Technically, it isn't even called "Obi-Wan Kenobi's Theme." In the original score sheets, the cue is titled "R3P2 (Reel 3, Part 2) NEW." i.e. John Williams never initially gave the cue a name. But over time, people ended up calling the cue Binary Sunset, then Obi-Wan Kenobi's Theme, and then The Force Theme. And here we are today. And that's my $0.02 cents. 😊
Ohhhh! I've heard of quarter tone triads like neutral thirds, sub/super minor/major, etc and was really confused trying to figure it out as a triad when it's actually a wonky spelling of an augmented sixth. Thanks haha.
@Ｙｕｎｇ Ｖｕｌｐｉｘ Hey, there. It's me again. I remembered our conversation, and I thought you might like this creation of mine. And if you do like it, spread the word. 😊 ua-cam.com/video/iqPDjjTXFWw/v-deo.html
Rey’s theme containing the Imperial March actually makes more sense now in the context of it representing the Empire rather than Vader. The Empire WAS Palpatine, and Rey is his granddaughter.
Brooks Alderman yeah but that wasn’t planned when Force Awakens was made. Palpatine coming back was just a last minute thing due to the Last Jedi writing everyone into a corner. It would’ve made more sense for Rey to have Palpatine’s theme in hers, not Vader’s, though.
I think the reason they did that is bc that is one of the main ideas of the movie, that the force is not just something for the skywalkers, but for everyone! I think the idea was that Luke was passing down the force to a new generation through death. So it makes sense that they would play it to accentuate that theme and cement the idea in our heads musically.
This is super late, but I thought of it as worth adding. In the GBA adaptation of Revenge Of The Sith, you can play two separate paths as Anakin and Obi-Wan. Anakin's levels open with a more adventurous version of "Across The Stars" and in the latter half, the Imperial March. Obi-Wan gets the Binary Sunset theme, HIS theme throughout the whole game.
As someone else pointed out, the track and sheet music from “The Empire Strikes Back” (3 years before RotJ) is titled “The Imperial March (Darth Vader’s Theme).” Williams clearly intended it that way, as it shows up in ESB in the swamp cave on Dagobah, when Luke attacks “Darth Vader” and the mask pops off to reveal Luke’s own face. We hear this leitmotif, and it clearly does not represent “The Empire” there. It represents Vader. In the original “Star Wars” sheet music book, released long before ESB, there is a setting of the “Force” theme and it is titled “May The Force Be With You,” and is subtitled “Obi-Wan’s theme” if I remember correctly. It’s a full setting, just like the recordings of “Leia’s Theme” include material that is not heard in the movie. So just as with “The Imperial March,” the idea that Williams *only* intended it to be Ben’s theme is not consistent with what was said at the time of the movie/composition. I think you think the other movies were planned long before they were. I know Lucas likes to give the impression that the entire original trilogy was planned before “A New Hope” started shooting, but there is tons of evidence that this simply isn’t true. Adjustments had to be made in backstory and leitmotif. It’s how the creative process goes.
John Williams is a badass with his music and a fucking genius. I already knew that, as most people do, but god damn it's just revealed so much here with how well he constructed Kylo and Rey's themes just to be prepared for anything that could've happened with the sequels.
They way he called out Disney making the story up as they go just by dissecting the music. Legend
You mean THE SAME WAY GEORGELUCAS DID?
@@WesMordine but he wasn’t making up story along the way without a foundation. He was making changes here and there along the way with OT and PT but ST is different. They literally have no foundation. They just make up story without anything/any plan at all. Even after 7 is released, ep 9 doesn’t have any plan at all. Not even a draft or a brainstorm. That’s a red flag.
@@Theo-bk6qj no, that's how art works. The artists follow their muse.
That's how Lucas decided to save Darth Vader (first name Darth, surname Vader), by someone else's suggestion, despite him just being a very secondary antagonist who has about 13 minutes total screentime and originally dying at the Death Star. Oops... he kinda made HIM the main character. That wasn't the plan AT ALL.
That's how Lucas decided while filming that Obi-Wan should die, although that wasn't on his script. And because of it, he had to come up with Yoda.
That's how Lucas decided Leia and Luke were twins, because the "there is another" line allowed him to, despite it not being the plan at all.
Its just how the creative process works, and creators shouldn't need to get permission from the audience to follow their own ideas.
Star Wars is at disadvantage because the fans think they have some kind of ownership over it (which we don't).
@@WesMordine He only improvised because there was nothing to begin with.
The prequels WERE planned out hence why they tell a better story. The Original Trilogy reeks of improvisation, due to how things come out of the blue incomprehensively, but the prequels knew ahead of time where the story would go, and so everything fits seamlesly. Above all else, George Lucas' improvisation of the originals was an extremely risky move. He is lucky to have a consistent philosophy, style and charm put in his works, that can at least give them a semi-harmonious flow.
The sequels have no excuse. They litterally had more foundation than all the other films combined. They have access to a style, worldbuilding, music theory, message, and philosphical theme more distinct than any ither sequel could ever DREAM to work with.
They just didn't use it. They CHOSE not to use it.
They chose not to use it because they believed people would enjoy nostalgia over a good plot, and would litterally cater to the public's opinion, which doesn't take a genius or an artist to immediately know this is a terrible idea. People want different things, people like different things, people say different things. Indirectly asking a litteral BILLION people what they want for the next one and letting the director do with it is just opening the floodgates of fucking Pandora's DAM.
Disney doesn't want to tell a story, it wants to sell one.
No plan. No opinion. Just nostalgia bait.
The use of the Imperial March theme when Luke takes off Vader’s mask actually does make sense: it’s slow and sort of fades out, thus it represents the Empire disappearing, symbolized by Anakin abandoning Vader’s mask once and for all.
Pretty much! Also I think the reason why the opening theme is no longer associated with Luke is not only because of his evolution as a character, but also the theme is no longer associated with him but the Resistance. The early Jedi (Qui Gon, Obi Wan, et al.) and their allies (Padme, Bail, etc.) were the small stirrings of the Resistance that was to come with Luke, Leia, Han, and anybody associated with them. Where the Empire falls, the Resistance remains.
Another audio cue for Vader abandoning the mask that is much more visceral in the Radio Drama, is that the "Vader" voice of James Earl Jones is replaced by the voice of the actor wearing the suit once the mask comes off. He doesn't just abandon the mask of Vader, he abandons the voice, the theme, and the entire identity. Which is why the imperial march fades out, as the identity and persona of Darth Vader dies, to be replaced once more by Anakin Skywalker.
Especially with the flutes. It's very ephemeral, like smoke dissipating. Like you said, the evaporation of the Empire as a force of power in the galaxy.
Lord commander John Williams, first of his name, lord of the leitmotifs, keeper of the scores, crafter of compositions and master of maestros
Amazingly put man 😂
PotionsMaster007 that was my favorite part 😂😂😂
LONG MAY HE REIGN
Lord Commander John Williams is a genius and no one can say otherwise
He is the chaos god of the leitmotifs
Hahha
"Disney has no idea what they're doing. They're compensating based on audience reaction"
*laughs, sobs, and screams in Rise of Skywalker*
Rosalind Causey ME RN
@@roseannejeries8875 me forever now it seems like. 😣
SPOILER WARNING (just in case)
Some things feel like they're compensating based on audience reaction - Chewie getting a medal some thirty-five years later (in-universe) comes to mind, as does the offhand Holdo Maneuver justification. Others, like Ben's arc, don't - if Abrams and Terrio had been looking at the fanbase's expectations, they wouldn't have written the ending like that. It makes me think that in the grand scheme of things, they probably weren't compensating based on audience reaction. Johnson and Abrams also probably didn't have the same idea in mind for the ending, but neither were focused on how the audience was going to react to it.
gosh me :))))))))
Yeah I still don't think it was planned. This video still looks like an over-analysis.
Thank you for confirming the belief that John Williams is the Lord Commander.
omg rachel your a celeb now
I wish Sideways called him the Master Lord Commander, because that is who John Williams is, and I actually saw him in person recently at the Tanglewood Festival in Berkshires in July.
What are you doing here? :00
RACHEL!!!!
does Sideways knows you're here?!
Fun fact: Williams has stated that when scoring for the original Star Wars, he wrote a piece anticipating a climactic love scene between Luke and Leia, because at the time, he didn't know they were siblings.
Neither did George, and you can tell by the deleted scene in Empire with the two of them getting all romantic. People like to shit on Disney for not planning anything even though George didn't either, he didn't even know that he would get to do a sequel.
@@MrEffectfilmsThat's not comparable at all. George did have a rough outline of where he wanted the story to go. He was unsure if Star Wars would be a hit, so he made the movie as a self-contained story. When it did prove successful, he went ahead with the other ideas he had laid out. Disney didn't have a plan. They made their trilogy film by film based on audience reactions. J.J. Plagiarisms did a whole video debunking this false equivalence. Even if neither had a plan, that doesn't help Disney's case, as their unplanned disaster wouldn't compare to Lucas's unplanned masterpiece. Not to mention, you can't tell that from the deleted scene in Empire, as in the same movie, Han and Leia get romantic, so even in the back of his mind, Lucas was thinking of not having Luke and Leia end up together. And don't say "you" as if no one will wildly object to your statement. Not everyone is as unobservant as you.
@@imfsresidentotaku9699
Dude wtf is wrong with you. If you don't agree with me that's fine but insulting me for no reason is uncalled for. This is why I just don't respond to Sequel trilogy hate anymore, it's become acceptable to be horrible to people who are just trying to offer their own perspective. Read my comment, I never insulted anyone, I was never mean to anyone, I just offered my POV.
The majority of your response was actually fine and I'll even admit you made some good points I hadn't considered, but that last bit was just uncalled for.
@@imfsresidentotaku9699 That's not true either. If you read the Rinzler books, (Making of Star Wars, Empire, Jedi), you'll see that Lucas didn't have much of an outline at all. Everything changed between movies, to the point that Mark Hamill threw a tantrum because he didn't get the girl and didn't get to do as many heroics as he was promised. Harrison Ford kept asking for his character to be killed off, and initially he was supposed to die between movies when frozen. That's why Empire ends on a cliffhanger and the promise that "there is another", because Lucas was trying to figure out exactly who was going to take the series further. Luke and Leia were initially lovers, Han would die, the Millenium Falcon would be destroyed along with Lando and Chewie in the final battle, and, in the end, Luke was supposed to disappear into the galaxy in a bittersweet ending.
Star Wars has always, always, always been made up as it goes along.
People missed that Reys theme contained Palpatines theme... hmmmm
Yep ! Starts with Palpatine but then is all the Jedi. ;-) So her theme makes total sense after all.
VictorJW also makes sense because [insert Rise Of Skywalker Spoiler]
which means her lineage was probably planned from the begining :)
@@user-zo8nl9be5l On my part, that's what I choose to believe :-)
@@user-zo8nl9be5l actually no, Ian Mccamird (I don't remember how to spell his name xD) said that only a year ago (like september 2018) he received a call from JJ saying that they were PLAINING to bring the emperor back so it was not smth anticipated at all
this video has aged...well? poorly? all I know is “they’re not planning anything” has never seemed more true lmao
It generally shows that JJ was planning things, and that he probably told John Williams what he was planning, and then the middle movie generally took a dump on everything he had planned, so the third movie had to try and fix all that.
@@SanguineRoku TROS didnt have to fix anything. there were so many interesting places they could have gone. instead they converted two years of incel rage into a script.
I can agree
@@eighteen-naked-cowboys Not sure what's sadder, that you think there was interesting places to go after Last Jedi cut off all the branches, or that you're a deluded SJW who thinks anyone who didn't like this garbage trilogy are "incels".
jear What interesting places? I don’t blame The Rise of Skywalker or it’s crew for how shit the movie turned out. It’s no wonder, since they had no where to go from TLJ, since it ended off with basically nothing to keep up interest and resolve.
Another cool thing that proves John Williams is the king of motifs:
The first three notes of Rey’s theme coincide with the last three notes of Kylo rens theme, kind of as the video stated. But, in across the stars (Anakin and Padmes theme), you can hear that the notes, played backwards, are the same three notes in Kylo ren and Rey’s theme.
In this link it shows it better than I can explain with words
ua-cam.com/video/d54PPJWTpY4/v-deo.html
Another super cool thing from the score was in the moment Rey catches the lightsaber and Kylo and Rey team up. In this moment, the force theme plays incredibly powerfully. You can find this moment around 1:14 in “A New Alliance” from the last Jedi score. Not only does it play there, but in the force awakens score when Rey strikes down Kylo ren in the forest and escapes, the exact same version of the force theme plays. John plays the same theme twice to show the differences in the scene, I believe, and it shows how it went from Rey striking down Kylo with hate to Rey teaming up with Ben to fight off the guards. Gosh John is such a legend
The last Jedi was full of great musical moments, but I completely agree that the force theme should have been played less, to make it more sentimental to fans. But, I guess they do want us to let the past die *ba dum tsh*
I’m off my musical nerd soap box now. Thanks for the great video, sideways!
My Reylo ass is trembling.
I just realized... music aside, The Last Jedi was trying to force that down our throats: "Let the past die", again and again. I just realized why. They started the Disney Trilogy with item after item of "that thing you really like from Star wars? It's gone now." Luke is missing, the Empire is gone, the Rebellion is gone. In fact, look here at all the things from before lying in ruins on this planet you've never heard of. we've destroyed all the stuff you liked.
And there was some negativity around that, because we wanted more Star wars, not just the exact same Star wars with new names. Like Rogue One. That was very much more Star wars. TFA was just Star wars again. TLJ was ironically clinging to the old Star wars plot elements, while telling you to let go of the old Star wars. And literally wasting half its run time on a meaningless story arc.
I for one do not mean to let the past die. The past was the good part. Rogue One was good because it lived in the past (and other reasons).
TFA is literally a bad fanfiction. TLJ is a bad fanfiction of that bad fanfiction.
TheOtherGuys2 I think that for the audiences that don’t know the original trilogy, especially the younger ones, it was a good movie. I enjoyed TLJ solely for the reason it was letting the past die. I found it interesting that they were taking it into new places and doing things that were so unexpected. Sure, there were flaws, but you gotta admit, the casino scene was visually amazing. I think, personally, that it was a good movie because of the message it sent. Failure. Everyone in this movie fails at some point or time. That can speak to so many people in this day and age. And even though the past is dying, it is time for a change. I think Disney and Lucasfilm realizes that they can’t just hold on to these characters forever, especially after getting backlash that TFA was “too similar to ANH”. For me, the movie was great. I enjoyed so many parts of it, from the amazing cinematography to the crazy plot twists (My snoke theory sucked but honestly he wasn’t super interesting to me either) to the absolutely great music we got from John Williams (can you tell I love him yet)
Anyways, you’re entitled to your own opinion. Not everyone liked the movie, not everyone disliked the movie. But I agree, the past is dying. And to me, that’s what made it great.
I think we can both agree that the music is pretty awesome though 😉
The part about A New Alliance being the same as the Kylo vs Rey music is simply not true. I just listened to both songs... in Kylo vs Ren it's not even the Force theme, never mind "the exact same version"
@@TheOtherGuys2 you know “let the past die” isn’t the message of the movie right? you know you’re not supposed to agree with the villain right?
Disney has no idea what they're doing? that is an eerily accurate prediction from two years ago
Omg, he figured it all out
He's a Sith Lord.
@@charlottefitton6518 A sith Lord?
I actually really like how - chronologically - Obi Wan didn't "earn" a leitmotif until after the fall of the jedi. During the Clone Wars, the Force Theme was all over the place because there were tons of great warriors, so Obi Wan was just one of many. But after Order 66, he (and Yoda I guess) are the only ones left, so he inherits the leitmotif, personally carrying on the jedi legacy. Then, after his death--in some sense, the end of the Jedi Order as presented to the audience--the theme continues as the Force's Theme. It moved from the the jedi (plural) theme to THE jedi (singular) theme to what the jedi dedicated themselves to, the Force. Maybe it's a bending of typical leitmotif rules, but I find it very satisfying in terms of narrative.
That moment when everyone around you has the same leitmotif.
I’m lookin at you obi wan.
So everyone has the same leitmotif as Space Jesus
Never underestimated the ability of nerds to find Easter eggs in their fandom
Their*
NoName thanks
And never underestimate the power of nerd theories scorned.
I prefer Geek
Your sad devotion to that ancient movie franchise hasn't helped you conjure up excitement for the sequel franchise nor has it given you clairvoyance to appease fans of Starwa-ghgjskjgh
"Disney has no idea what they're doing."
In light of the new movie, truer words have never been spoken
notabot 2001 what’s sad is that almost every single prediction of the future of this saga has come correct in that the UA-camrs have predicted Disney’s complete failure of Star Wars. Literally any other company could have pulled off a better job. What’s sad is that George Lucas was completely disheartened by the response to the prequels and has mentioned several times he will never direct another Star Wars film ;(
I like the prequels
Luca Henry the main problem is different directors for episodes 7 and 8
Because J.J. Abrams probably had a plan for the new trilogy and then, Rian Johnson came and threw away all of Abrams’ ideas, then when Abrams came back to the directing, he decided to revenge, and he did the same thing to Jonson
Because of all that there is no complete story in sequels
And also some story lines were broken, so there is no consistency of the story especially between episodes 8 and 9
Imao:)
2 years later and this video couldn't be any more right about that, haha!
hmmm... they put palpatines theme in reys, and now years later we find out shes his granddaughter so clearly they knew what they were doing. People just cant get over the shitty visual quality of the original movies
I would love to hear how you reacted to episode 9
It was great
HAHA
@@ritz1515 hello there
@@icewarriorcz7616 GENERAL KENOBI
@@vid5506 Yeah, it wasn't.
TL;DW rey’s theme has a ton of random shit in it because Star Wars has no plan, so it was made really flexible to fit whatever happens
And proves how genius John Williams is.
I cackled when you said "Disney has no idea what they're doing." This video was brilliant, and makes me actually want to see this movie now (I don't care about spoilers). Thank you!
firewordsparkler well then the film is gonna suck if it’s spoiled
ITS BLOODY TRUE THOUGH! ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!
GamingRanger Knowing the plot of a movie does not ruin the movie, not by a long shot. If that was the case, we wouldn't rewatch our favorite films over and over again. Films are not suddenly worthless just because the plot is revealed, and frankly it's getting pretty old seeing everyone on the internet treating "spoilers" like the plague.
Parrot Ox knowing what’s gonna happen ruins a movie. Especially if it has twist and especially if it is a mystery.
GamingRanger Have you ever watched a movie more than once, for no other reason than you enjoy the experience? If you answer yes, then your argument is invalid.
Truly admirable for how many Iconic Themes John Williams was able to create.
And with The Rise of Skywalker out for a while now the revelation Rey was a Palpatine actually fits perfectly within her main theme brilliantly, along with the subtle hints at which she was a descendant of Palpatine given she had gone straight to darkness, and Made quick jabs, but in the end like most other heroes was able to set aside her true name, and inherit the essence of a Skywalker.
Credit where credit is due John Williams knew exactly what he was doing when Disney-Lucasfilm executives clearly had no idea.
It’s gonna be a dark time for Star Wars once John Williams is gone, but his beautifully composed themes will never be forgotten.
When did the other heroes set aside their true name?? And becoming the essence of a Skywalker is kinda demeaning, tbh; like Rey has no value in-verse as a person or jedi unless she is somehow associated with Skywalkeryness. 99.9% of other jedi who ever existed had nothing to do with them, so... wha??
there is still hope for the music of star wars through the golden trio of goransson, giaccino, and kiner. 3 men who understand the majesty and wonder of star wars' soundscape like few other than williams truly do.
@@nickwooden5661 Indeed, Goranssons tracks for Ahsoka are some of the best soundtracks I have ever heard for a character.
Han and Leia’s theme playing in the trailer for The Force Awakens actually makes some sense. It’s foreshadowing the fact that Kylo Ren, the main villain of the movie, is their son.
Well, that, and it plays when the Falcon is soaring. So of course we'd be able to use the love theme for Han and Leia's home.
@Catherine Heridis you're the moron lmao "Rey as Ben Solo's sister" ?? 💀💀
@Catherine Heridis I hope you don't still believe that Ben and Rey are siblings... because yeah that would make their kiss a whole lot more awkward
The trailer for Rise of Skywalker has the theme for Princess Leia in the background which is probably used as tribute to Carrie Fisher, RIP.
Catherine Heridis This... did not age well
15:05 "the Lord commander knew that disny did not what they were doing, so he made theme that would fit no matter what happens" that is what made me realize this guy is a genuinely a smart dude
I’m going to try and make my own hypothesis, based on what I’ve learned from your videos, on why the imperial march plays when Vader redeems himself in RotJ. If you notice, the Imperial March is usually played by brass instruments to represent power and strength, however when it plays at the end of RotJ when Vader redeems itself, it’s played with lighter strings and woodwinds. Furthermore, it fades away as the mask is being pulled off. I believe this is supposed to represent the Empire being weakened and then destroyed, to symbolize the rebels triumph over the Empire.
General Red I like that.
I always figured that the hollow sound given by the strings and woodwinds symbolizes both the death of Darth Vader (an agent of the Empire) and showing what the Empire and the Dark Side have done to him (as reinforced in RotS)
I've figured that several themes within the STAR WARS series have multiple purposes. For example, the Imperial March represents _both_ Vader and the Empire, and is even used as a theme for the Galactic Republic in Episode II. The "Force Theme" has famously never really had a name, and has been called that, as well as Binary Sunset, Obi-Wan's Theme, and the Throne Room Music because of its many different uses already within the original film. It _is_ basically the secondary theme of STAR WARS.
@@johnhooyer3101
When I search "galactic republic" with literally any other things such as "attack of the clones" in my search for what you're talking about, the ONLY result is the Grand Army of the Republic Theme.
That song is most definitely NOT the Imperial March... like, at all...
Please link with what you're talking about.
@@Richard_Nickerson It was a while ago that I read about this, so I don't know where the link was, but it wasn't necessarily presented as an ironclad association. The point that was being made is that John Williams's themes tend to evolve and and grow connections to new ideas, not explicitly but in that mysterious way that music communicates without saying a word.
As for the Grand Army of the Republic theme, I always saw that as a leitmoteif for the clones and the Clone Wars as a whole, but not necessarily a theme conveying the authority commanding them itself. If you want to go with the extended universe, there is a galactic theme called "All Stars Burn as One", but it isn't in the films and isn't a John Williams composition, and is no longer canon. So officially, there is no actual anthem, and people are free to interpret that however they like based off of how the music speaks to them in the films, as well as statements from supplementary materials that they may give credence to.
@@johnhooyer3101
So... you have no proof for your claim, so now you're going from saying it's a definite thing to people are allowed to interpret things the way they want.
You said it was exactly the same. I said I can't find anything by that name, and what I could find is nowhere near the same. Now you're trying to say people can interpret things how they want...
Don't make claims you can't prove, don't make claims that are so easily disproved. Don't simply try to backtrack, just admit you were wrong.
Your comment has 3 likes... you've given at least 3 people completely incorrect information with no basis and they could now be spreading this misinformation themselves.
Is it a super important thing? No, it's Star Wars music. But spreading misinformation in general is wrong and should be called out.
Watching this in 2021 and thinking wistfully of the time we thought TROS was gonna be good
Ugh. It was SO BAD.
Anyone here after Rey's lineage was revealed in episode IX?
Yeah she is my daughter
Said idots who arent familiar with the jedi code
@@batmitesolos7097 *granddaughter
@@leonardochapman4736 I used yo br obi wan kenobi thus explaining this
@@batmitesolos7097 ok
"The Disney marketing team has lost all sense of subtlety and grace" - yeah, that about sums it up right there. A series with little direction being sold as the next great masterpiece of film, running on the fumes of nostalgia and corporate marketing.
The Imperial March is also known as Darth Vader's Theme. It represents both the Empire AND Darth Vader.
Basically what I'm thinking. There are several themes in _STAR WARS_ that represent both characters and ideas at the same time. The theme discussed in this video actually has no name, because it's simultaneously known as Obi-Wan's Theme, Binary Sunset, the Force Theme, and the Throne Room Music. It has secondary and even tertiary uses, and really does functionally serve as the secondary theme for STAR WARS.
Actually, Williams acknowledges the theme as "The Force Theme." He's used that term when talking about it's chordal relationship with Rey's Theme.
Erik Woods but it should have been put in A New Hope but not the prequels. A New Hope has the original imperial theme which was used in Rogue One when you see Vader.
Qui Qon Jinn has the BEST theme!
Yes, there is an original motif for the Empire in Star Wars. The Imperial March is more of a theme for Vader but gets doubled up as a theme for the Empire post-A New Hope. As for its use in the prequels.... Again, it's used mostly as a theme for Vader... however, it is, IMO, incorrectly used during the final scene in Attack of the Clones when the clone tropers are taking off from Coruscant. That should have been, IMO, a grand statement of The Emperors theme and not The Imperial March.
The "overuse" of the Force theme in the sequel trilogy might be related, in my opinion, to the protagonism the Force itself has in this trilogy. What we are supposed to be witnessing is the story of its will (because it has awakened, and it "created" Rey to compensate Kylo). Moreover, I belive that Han & the princess is played to refer to Ben Solo.
It's satisfying in a horrible way to hear people hinting that George Lucas had no clue what he was doing and Star Wars as a whole is just a lucky mess made good enough by people working hard behind the scenes to make up for others' failures.
The worldbuilding was all on him though, which I thought was very good. I love the sequels, but for the most part, the worldbuilding has been lackluster compared to the OT and the prequels.
It's not that he didn't have a clue, but that things change over development. For anyone who is interested, I highly recommend Sfdebris' behind the scenes Analysis of the making of the Star wars Movies: Hero's Journey on the original, Shadow's Journey on Empire and Jedi, and the currently on-going Hermit's Journey on the prequels
George Lucas is bad at making up ideas. See example: the prequels, because Lucas surrounded himself with people who refused to criticise any of his awful decisions throughout the creation of the prequels, so all of his ideas were put into the movies. The movies are therefore shit.
Disney knows this: its why they gave a trilogy to Rian Johnson. Kathleen Kennedy is not going to be shepherding her creative vision for this sequel trilogy. They need one voice to rule over them all, its how the OT was successful.
So is life when you think about it.
I was so mad about them not using the Binary Sunset theme during Luke’s use of the force in ep. 8! I picked up on how much they used it to tie in the “force” theme... I agree with this so much
John Williams is literally the Galen Erso of Star Wars music.
Nafinkle “I’ve hidden something inside this theme...”
Unless Lucasfilm has a time machine, I'm not sure how hiring Johnson in 2014 is a reaction to the fan response to 2015's The Force Awakens
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
They DID rewrite some stuff to focus more "on the new characters", whatever that means, but I can't imagine Rian changing everything that in the script.
K-Riddle93 New Star Wars don't get test screened with audiences for fear of spoilers. And Rian was hired before production was over, so there wasn't even an in-house rough cut available yet
PolarPhantom Rian started working on TLJ before TFA was even filming, and I think principle photography already started shortly after it was released so they had the story planned out and were building sets long after anything could be drastically changed. Also, why would Disney have listened to the people who hated TFA when that was a very small portion of the audience.
@@sergioizzaqt7707 Well to be fair that's exactly what they did with TROS...
Annie That’s what JJ did. Why do people talk about the Disney corporation like it’s a person?
Interestingly, we've now received news that John Williams will be returning to work on 'Solo: A Star Wars Story,' but seemingly only for Han's theme. This is intriguing cause it brings to light that Han doesn't really have a musical identity throughout the Original Trilogy.
I love that the secret message is that they have no secret message
I like your analysis, but I have to disagree on some points. In an interview from 1977, Williams has stated: "I think of Ben’s theme as also being the theme of the Jedi Knights, the Old Republic that ben remembers. It also overlaps into the area of being the theme for the Force, the good Force that Ben represents.", so he planned to use it as a Force theme pretty much since the first movie. He also referred to the Imperial March as the theme for both the Empire and Darth Vader on many occassions - even in interviews from 1979 and 1980, you can find them in Rinzler's books about making Star Wars movies, so it wasn't a forced prequel retcon. So yeah, although the stress would have been put on different aspects depending on the movie, you can see that it was natural for him from the very beginnig to use one theme to represent various concepts.
SPOILER ALERT
What he says about Rey’s and Kylo’s themes being similar when played backwards, representing them as equals and opposites, makes even more sense now that we know they’re a dyad in the Force.
So my biggest disagreeance with what he's saying is how "disney thinks that the foce theme is the main theme now"
I think it's completely appropriate! 1. The movie was literally called "The FORCE awakens", and in "the last jedi", the first half of the movie was ENTIRELY about (learning to use) the force. and after that, there was still HUGE emphasis on the force being used.
Previous movies had the jedi use the force as a tool. The last two movies (far more so 8 than 7) were pivotally focused on the force.
True. I did not pay attention to it while watching, so maybe it was overused, but I didn't notice.
I also think playing the force theme during the force projection would've been a dead giveaway. But I'm just nitpicking really, great analysis on the whole.
Even in Force Awakens...it was used with a lot less subtlety.
Like, its not horrible or anything (it makes sense for someone who's passionate for music to call it out tho) but just when compared to how the original 6 movies handled it...it could have been done better...
The force them could've played the moment it was revealed.
Overall I really liked The Last Jedi but there was some musical decisions (which I unfortunately think were asked for by Rian Johnson) that seemed a little overwrought - something about the way Vader's theme played when Snoke mentioned him just seemed a little on the nose somehow
Totally agree. Especially since Sideways points out that the "Main Theme" is actually Luke's theme, wouldn't it be weird for the trailers/movies to focus on his theme when he's not the center of the story?
11:01 I don’t think it’s misleading. I think it’s representing the last thing representing the Empire in Anakin leaving him: his suit that he’s worn almost the whole time he’s been Darth Vader
... Or maybe John Williams just writes the same kinds of melodies over and over.
Just sayin'. The man is a genius but he definitely has his go-to sounds.
i know right? in a guitarist's perspective, i can say we all have our favorite go to licks that we pull out of the bag, just like our idols that's why we there are times we can recognize the guitarist due to their "signature sound" and i guess that kind of thinking applies to john williams. they make it that way to make it sound nostalgic, and to make it sound like it's star wars. it's not gonna have the same nostalgic effect if they're gonna put it music that won't be familiar to the ear.
Superphilipp But... That wont fit his head canon!!!!!!!!!!
I think it may be this. When I hear Rey's theme I always think of Harry Potter and not other star wars music.
John Williams has his go-to sounds when making certain kinds of films, and I've noticed that _STAR WARS_ is definitely designed so that everything sounds related. Like, the Rebellion is Reborn theme sounds very much related to Yoda's Theme and Anakin's Theme . But then, on the other hand, I've listened to Williams score for _Catch Me If You Can,_ _Schindler's List,_ _Lincoln,_ _Saving Private Ryan,_ _Memoirs of a Geisha,_ _The Book Thief,_ _Close Encounters of the Third Kind,_ and a bunch of other films, and multiple Olympic games, and when you look at his entire folio, he has a lot of variety. I can often tell when a good piece of music is _not_ by him (for example, _La La Land_ is good but definitely not _quite_ how he would compose something, except for perhaps Mia and Sebastian's Theme), but it's also clear from the complexity of his orchestrations that he knows exactly what he's doing when two pieces sound similar to each other, _especially_ when they're within the same ongoing story.
Sometimes, we get a bit too analytical. When looking too far in, we see blurry shapes we think are what we are looking for.
2:24 Fun fact! My mom watched the prequels with me kinda there when I was like 3.
I remember almost nothing from those sittings, but one thing I do remember is this one red shot, and I am 100% certain that it was because of the music
It does say The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme) on even the original Empire Strikes Back album.
"it doesn't represent Vader, it represents the Empire"
Literally the original soundtrack: it represents Vader
Long video but you tie it all together in the end... glad I stuck around for the whole thing...
I remember really, really loving the Han Solo and the Princess theme song during the trailer for the Force Awakens - at that time we had no idea of Kyle's heritage and it just was such a huge clue right in our faces. I remember saying to my twin ''Why are they using this theme?'' we were super confused but thinking back at it it was such a clever move.
9:30 "This is how I kept track"
sir i'm in literal tears
new video yes good finishing off the year just right 👏👏👏
Miles A López HELLO MILES
2020!!
Huh, I thought that Rey's origins in the 9th film came out of nowhere but it was really planned all along, that's super cool. And no one really seemed to have picked up on it apart from a few music experts!
I mean in 7 Rey uses a similar charging stance as Palpatine's lunge in the arrest scene in 3. She was also born extremely adept in the force but untrained. You can see how Kylo is of similar power while his grandfather too had a high midichlorian count from Anakin.
I think Rey's force powers are similar to Kylo's since Palpatine is the most powerful force user in history but Rey is untrained. Of course Anakin was the light side equal to that of Palpatine when combined with the much lesser power overall from the rest of the Jedi Order. I choose to think that the trained offspring of Anakin Skywalker can match the untrained offspring of Palpatine.
I drew this conclusion from the Voice Actor of Kanan Jarrus (I forget how to spell it) when he ranted on a podcast how balance in the force is essentially a numerical value in the light/dark battle of the universe.
I don’t think it was necessarily planned all along, considering there were 2 separate directors that had 2 different views on the story of the “sequel trilogy.”
A lot of people were not too fond of Rian Johnson’s The Last Jedi and when they brought back J.J. Abrams for Episode IX, Abrams had to essentially fix the problem with the story, but when writing the plot for IX, Abrams knew that Palpatine would have to make a return.
While George Lucas was still working on the original trilogy in the 80s, he stated that he had enough material for 3 earlier films and 3 later films, making a total of 9 films. In his outlined material for the saga, he wanted the Palpatine to make a return in the 9th episode.
Although Abrams didn’t initially know how he would implement the resurrection of Palpatine, he did, and he wanted the plot twist of making Rey, his grand-daughter.
9:58 By this point I had completely forgotten that this video was about Rey’s theme
13:20 Nostradamus has been real quiet since this dropped
6:43 ‘they play the force theme more times in the last Jedi than in any other Star Wars film’
Rise of Skywalker: hold my blue milk
13:56 That was a list of titles for John Williams that needs to be on his wiki / imdb page.
I would love to see a sequel to this episode after you have the possibility to see and dissect the music in episode 9 and how lord commander John Williams was able to mould Rey's theme as well as the score in general.
How to fix the minor issues in the PT (according to someone with no musical experience)
Have the Force Theme be Qui-Gon's theme, then when he dies have it then be Obi-Wan's theme, Qui-Gon passing the mantle *as* the Force Theme
Then when you get to the OT, it's Ob-Wan passing the Force Theme onto Luke, so it rhymes, like poetry
And remove Luke's theme in the few instances where it's used
About Disney using the Force theme in promotional pieces...you do know that TV spots, trailers, etc., are all handled by third parties, right?
Disney sends over clips of the film for use and the trailer company can do pretty much anything with it with regards to the trailer’s design. Why would they not jump on the chance to use the Force theme?
Julian Whiteway But it must fit his anti disney motives!!!!!!!
This is so good. Thank you for sharing your expertise and talents with the world on UA-cam! I cannot I have not found your channel in the past.
It’s funny how you refer to Disney or Lucas making a choice when you think it’s bad but Williams when you think it’s good
Well because Williams' can't decide Rey's parentage, Kylo and Reys' connection, etc. But Disney can. He can only be prepared to have those themes fit and make sense no matter what they pick. Which is pretty awesome.
I was thinking more specifically when he accuses Disney of overusing the force theme. Marketing aside, for all we know Williams decided to make the force theme big in the new trilogy, but because Sideways doesn't approve of that decision it's automatically cast as Disney, not 'genius composer John Williams'.
Additionally the evidence that there was no planning for future episodes is pretty scant, I mean it could be but the case isn't that compelling either way. This is a musical version of the too many fantheories problem which people seem to have, where based on pretty out there theories people were wedded to ideas about who Rey's parents are.
An alternative hypothesis might be a) Disney has a plan and williams knows about it b) he made Rey and Kylo's themes retrograde of each other to represent their yin yang relationship which is a big deal in the new movie, c) The match with the Imperial march was designed for Kylo who works as a new incarnation of the empire/vader, and this resulted in Rey's theme also fitting with the march.
He seems to be part of the RLM Hivemind of people that loathe Lucas AND loathe Disney but somehow claim to be fans of Star Wars* (*just New Hope and Empire Strikes Back of course, the other seven are awful!)
Yeah, I love how his bitching about the Force Theme is explained as if Disney doesn't understand the property, when in reality it's Williams who was the one that decided to use it that much.
This is the problem with any Star Wars film: Fans think they know *exactly* how the next one should go, and will tear apart the tiniest pieces that don't fit. They forget that Lucas was making it all up as he went along and treat the OT as if they're seamless(Disney might not have a fully mapped out plan, but at least we can safely assume we won't find out Finn and Rose are actually siblings and that their kiss at the end was creepy af).
And worst of all, Star Wars fans forget that Star Wars is a film series that needs to take into account general audience reaction. The main theme gets used so little not because Lucas and Disney don't know what they're doing, but because it's just easier to work The Force Theme into different scenes without distracting audiences. You can tone down the main theme, but everyone is still going to immediately associate it with the bombastic version that has accompanied every opening crawl in the series. It needs to be used sparingly because it is DISTRACTING, and requires a lot of rewriting to fit. The Force Theme fits into different scenes more easily, can represent more emotions, and is just as iconic.
You're full of shit. People hate the new Star Wars because the story wasnt executed well. It has nothing to do with the typical age old argument of accusing fans of not having their theories confirmed. Star Wars 8 could have been the most amazing movie of the series if a little more time and thought went into how the story they were trying to tell was written. I was fine with concepts that were introduced, I was fine with Lukes character PROVIDING that it was done in a way that was meaningful.
And here we are 2 years later: there was barely a second I wouldn't here the 'binary sunset theme' in Star Wars IX :/ Thanks for the awesome video
Rian Johanson was writing and directing episode 8 before esisode 7 came out. And I think Rey’s parents being nobodies was a great idea. But I agree there should be a bigger plan.
I don't get why a lot of people are pissed about a character who shows us you don't have to be pushed out of the right vagina to be an awesome hero. She reminds me of Kyle Katarn.
It was established for a long time that anyone could be born to have a special relationship with the Force. The Jedi, after all, apparently found children born with it all of the time. The key issue is mainly that the Skywalkers are canonically far more powerful than anyone else in the Galaxy because they have some sort of special destiny with the Force, and I don't quite understand how Rey is consistently more powerful than them without even trying. The theme of a person coming from nowhere from no parents of any reknown was already covered in Anakin, and it was already established that he was the Chosen One with a special destiny for balancing the Force (and by extension, I suppose, his progeny, according to statements by Lucas and Kennedy), so having Rey come from nowhere is a little redundant and kind of undercuts the narrative over seven episodes that the Skywalker family drama was really building up to something. The other reason why I don't quite like her being from nowhere is that, if you watch the saga as one film as Lucas often said was his intention for it, it would be pretty weird to suddenly replace all of the characters a third of the way through with someone unrelated to anything that happened previously within the story. That's generally not how stories are told.
Otherwise, I like the movie and will defend it against what critics have to say, because I don't have time for that kind of negativity. I'm also not too upset with the reveal of Rey's parents, because the story isn't over yet and it could easily be that Ben was wrong.
Rey most likely has parents. It's obvious she will and that Kylo was telling her she was nobody and her parents were nobodies to get her to lean on him and join him. John Boyega also said in an interview to please let the Obi wan theory go and that he has our backs as the parents will be pleasing to us.
I can understand why many see Rey having great powers especially comparative to that of the Skywalkers can be a bit odd, but keep in mind, we shouldn't be too surprised if the force acts much strangely in others despite what others may talk about it when it comes to prophecies or old lore, because the whole point of the force is that it is something unpredictable, unimaginable, and completely supernatural. So don't be surprised if new great lineages and familylines are born over the course of many years. Hell, look at others who came from stories outside of prophecies who were mega powerful in their force abilities. Look at Yoda, or Revan, or hell, even some of the most well-known and loved characters from the original EU that has seemed to inspire many parts of Canon, including Kyle Katarn, aka basically just another kid with family issues and separated from his father who decided to quit being a Stormtrooper, fight for the rebellion, become a student of Luke's, and eventually realize his true potential and all the powers he had to begin with, making him one of the most powerful and legendary Jedis ever. So good for Rey that she seems to be embodying what Kyle Katarn stood for in this new canon storyline, while at the same time writing her character so that she is actually unique in how she is self-obsessed, self-hating, can't accept her past, depressed, lonely, and at points cowardly, but instead through her struggles and tribulations and seeing how others such as Ren suffer the same fate as her, decides to use her issues to try and help others instead of just letting them suffer. Aka why some of my favorite scenes in Star Wars cinematic history are the interactions she has with Ren in The Last Jedi.
I'm still hoping for some indication as to what the Force Awakening actually means. As of right now, it's a Deus Ex Machina used to swipe aside old characters and replace them with new ones that are cooler without having to do much work for it (although I won't really call Rey a Mary Sue, since Mary Sues are poorly written and only endearing because the author tells you so, whereas Rey is genuinely someone you can sympathize with and root for). I'm okay with the Force being mysterious, but I also think that it should be consistent; it will finish anything that it sets out to start. That is, if there was a Chosen One, there has to be some narrative follow-up to that prophecy, since otherwise Anakin's destiny is still incomplete and the entire first six episodes of the saga are similar to the Canto Bight sequence, a giant narrative detour.
Although I will actually defend the Canto Bight sequence as well, oddly enough.
For the record, I never really liked the old EU canon and didn't like Revan. Yoda made sense, since he was incredibly old and wise and more trained than Anakin ever was, and also it was indicated that he was quantifiably the Jedi with the second-highest potential after Anakin (which I know, that's because of a discussion about midi-chlorians that ticks people off, but it's canon). As for Dark Lords seeming more powerful than the Skywalkers, it's usually indicated that a) they have access to secret knowledge, and b) the Dark Side _seems_ more powerful but in reality is only easier. So Sidious and Snoke made sense.
Perhaps Rey channels the dark far more than she imagines. The movie certainly indicates that, and if that's the case, I'd like to see that theme more fully addressed. Is that why she's able to master various Force abilities in one day, when it normally takes Jedi years?
In any case, I want to see definitive resolution to the Skywalkers' calling. If they're the Chosen Ones, and basically the great mediators for the Force, then at some point I want to see them fulfill a destiny related to this identity, because narratively, if you're watching the saga in a marathon, that's what makes sense.
Your star Wars videos are the best, I love coming back and watching this one and the rogue one video
Hey you were right!
This video towards the end aged like fine wine and you pointed out how the franchise was approaching the movies by the score itself. Good content, keep it up!
When I saw that you made this vid, I went to see The Last Jedi today just so I could see your vid without worrying about spoiler.
I won’t lie. I think this movie is getting WAY more hate than it deserves. I understand why fans are mad about what they did to Luke’s character but honestly I think it was about as good as episode 7.
I don't get it either. I honestly think a lot of people just have their heads so far up in their ass with fan theories and minutiae that they are unable to remember that these are movies first-and-foremost and that they won't necessarily go in the direction you want them to. Look at how annoyed this guy seemed about the Force theme supplanting the main theme, when it's more likely a result of practicality than Disney "not getting it." The Force Theme is equally iconic, can fit tons of different scenes more easily, and hasn't blared at the audience in full bombastic glory at the beginning of every Star Wars film. No matter how you rearrange it, if the main theme is recognizable it will be far more distracting than the Force Theme is unless you want to emphasize the action and adventure in the scene(and even then, it's SO iconic and bound up with the start of a Star Wars film it could be distracting).
I wasn't a huge fan of Luke's character in this episode either(especially towards the beginning), but it works and makes sense as one perfectly valid direction to take the character. Just because I wouldn't have chosen it doesn't mean it literally ruins the character and the film is stupid.
It makes no sense from a narrative point of view. I dont think anyone had a problem with Luke being the way he was portrayed, you simply have to have a good enough narrative that can explain that, and frankly what WAS presented was not executed very well. The man who was ready to sacrifice himself for a father he knew all of about 15 minutes, would never just kill his own nephew for having dark side problems .... at least, not without a very good reason. Thats the whole thing, people arent made about the result they are mad about the reasoning behind that result, and I think a lot of them just have trouble articulating it.
Max Acree
The issue here was that they didn't show just what it was that Luke saw in his vision regarding Ben Solo. If they had shown us and it had been super fucked up, I don't think people would have as many problems with it. I, for one, loved the movie, but I do see its flaws.
Cheezmonka I only noticed this the 3rd time I watched it, but when Luke senses dark in Kylo, there is sounds of screaming and death.
I think Force Awakens was better, but the Last Jedi was still really good, and definitely doesn’t deserve how much hate it’s getting
Wow! I think you nailed it! Although I'm not formally trained, I dabble in composition (and have scored my own short films), and I find your videos immensely helpful to that end, as well! Thanks!
Excellent video, but it seems as though the problem you point out with the new trilogy was just as true for the original trilogy: Williams didn’t know what was coming.
Williams composed the themes for ANH not knowing that Luke and Vader and Leia were related, that Vader would turn good, etc. You quote him saying he didn’t even know there would be a sequel, and you deduce that he had to repurpose Obi-Wan’s theme later.
So how was he in a worse spot when he had to compose for TFA? It would seem like a better spot, even, since from a business standpoint he knows it’s a trilogy, and from an artistic standpoint he probably got some hints, like you said, like “Rey and Kylo are connected.”
Relatedly, it's hard to take "Disney doesn't have a plan!" as some sign of incompetence or evil corporate apathy when we're talking about the same series whose most beloved installment involves a kiss and romantic tension between two characters we find out are siblings in a future film. As great as the OT is, Lucas had no real plan at all either, and made up a lot of it as he went along(and it shows a LOT, guaranteed far worse than the ST ever will).
Gwen C Yeah, despite Lucas’s claims, it’s clear that he didn’t have it all planned beforehand. He didn’t know who was related to whom, he didn’t know who was going to die, he didn’t know what Jabba looked like, until he needed to. (Which is great, because it means it’s possible to make a classic series one movie at a time.)
We can be eternally thankful that Irvin Kershner directed Empire Strikes Back. He was the one who pushed for more character development, better dialogues, and a more intricate story - basically redefining what *is* Star Wars: not just a simple archetype tale with groundbreaking design (thanks to Ralph McQuarrie's concepts and ILM). Some of it was planned by Lucas, but I really wonder how much of it made it on screen. It's the movie he had the least to do with. I'm pretty sure that Episode 5 defined the SW mythos more than A New Hope originally did.
5:29 Well the fisrt appearence is the beggining of the story, the second is the start of a battle that completely changes the situation of the story, and the third starts the OT
The Finn moment makes sense now because of the revelation that he has the force beyond than ordinary human species basically a Leia arch...
holy shit 1:50 the celebration from Phantom Menace being a sped up emperor's room theme blew my mind
Coming here after episode 9 👀
This video was absolutely amazing! I love how you really went in depth on these themes and how similar they really are! Great job
Man I wish there could be a video on Rise of Skywalker but I'm sure there isn't enough new content to talk about to justify a video.
No, the movie was just too fast for anyone to process the new content lol
@@colleencasey5327 I'm mostly just giving an excuse to myself so that I don't give my hopes up for a video on the movie, but I suppose you could say that.
Wow, very interesting points!
Rey's theme has become a new favorite of mine and I have a two-piece opinion, one half being more objective, the other a subjective impression.
So the objective part was formulated after watching your video and it's in fact in line with what my impression of the character has been so far. It's that she's had both the light and dark sides of the Force. In TLJ, both Rey and Kylo, for a large part of the story, were hanging in the balance somewhere between Light and Dark. There were even parts where the sides seemed turned: When Rey was explaining her dark cave experience to Kylo, she sounded kind of let down, someone who has lost her way while Kylo seemed to be patient, wise and comforting.
So my idea is that Rey's theme represents that premise, that dual potential. Because effectively, going to the Light side was Rey's conscious choice. She had only cared about her friends and the Resistance up to the pivotal point of the throne room fight. And there, when they were standing atop the corpses in the burning throne room, for a few brief moments, it seemed like Rey might just go over to join Kylo on the Dark side. But it was also entirely possible that Kylo would come over or they would somehow meet in the middle of the bridge and form something new, relying on both sides of the Force. It wasn't "burning down the past" what affected Rey, I think she was ready to accept the facts about her ancestry and looking to the future. I think it was the next sentences, when kylo said something about bringing new "order" to the galaxy, and "rule" together, that he finally stepped back towards the Dark side and pushed Rey back, her realizing that it wasn't the path she wanted to take and finally taking her place on the Light side. So up to that choice, Rey going either Light or Dark were both possibilities, and maybe that's what this duality in her theme represents.
The subjective part is more like a preference or an impression. Up to the end of TRJ, the six movies that had happened brought about heavy dramatic arcs but also a lot of baggage. War, politics, corruption and redemption, the passing of an entire era, and the almost complete demise of both Jedi and Sith sides. So when I first saw Rey scavenging in the ruins of the past, and heard her theme, it resonated with me because it kind of represented new begginings. It sounded like the chime-like sounds of a trickling mountain stream. And maybe that's what the Force was in TFA. Literally, what the title suggested - The Force awakening. But the Force might be like a mountain stream. During the events of the previous installments, drastic things happened throughout the galaxy. So if the Force is a stream, landslides and earthquakes closed up its source and buried its bed. But then, through the rubble and the ruins, the stream emerges. Somewhere else, from a new source, from somewhere unexpected, carving out a new bed for itself. Things change, but life goes on, new sapplings start to grow on the stream's banks, a new forest around a new mountain stream. The water finds its mysterious ways to the surface and continues to support life, changed but unhindered by the calamities of the past. The source, the riverbed, the course of the stream, everything changes - The fresh water itself and the continous flow however, is the same.
So that was my impression throughout TFA, Rey being that source of the new stream, trickling down the mountain slopes, appearing again where no one was expecting it.
Me after watching this is 2020 when you say "Maybe she is Luke's daughter and there will be another big reveal"
I WISH
I think this is your best video yet.
You’re my favorite UA-camr
I always found the “Luke theme” as you call it, more or less, serves as a theme for the heroes, so it’s more of a “hero or heroic theme” so when anyone does something heroic or the heroes show up that “Star Wars theme” comes up. Symbolizes Force, the good guys. And specifically used for Luke in the original movies, and in the prequels and new trilogy for the “heroes” and Luke.
Thank you, once again a superb exposition on John Williams' genius!
Disney has a hands-off policy with Lucasfilm, just like it does with Pixar and Marvel. I would be surprised if John Williams were not making the musical decisions in conjunction with the directors.
Beyond that, let's not forget that these film ideas were largely worked out in a writer's room, so no, these movies are not a surprise to Lucasfilm just because the audience was surprised.
First of all, HUGE fan of this channel. I'm a fellow neck beardy music lover and I'm sure you've heard this before, but I would LOVE to see an episode or even a series on the music I'm Game of Thrones! I haven't spent a ton of time really digging into it, but I think you could really dig into how they use the "Rains of Castamere" theme in conjunction with the Lannisters and the good/bad things that happen to them.
Watching this now in 2020......
oh boyyyy
Dude I can’t believe you called it, Disney definitely had no plan for the trilogy. I’m starting to discover your videos now and I absolutely love them
13:22
He can see things before they happen. It's a jedi trait.
"The Lord Commander" :D
Amazing video as always, keep up the good work!
I don’t get why Disney’s getting shit here. Why would John Williams be acclaimed for writting the music, but whenever the music doesn’t fit, Disney are the ones to blame. I really liked TLJ musically, although, I’d have eased on the Force theme. I think this new trilogy’s leitmotifs are great, the resistance march, the Kylo Ren theme, Rose’s theme etc. I’m pretty sure Rian Johnson/JJ Abrams/Disney aren’t dictating stuff to Williams, after all, he’s writting the music, he’s conducting.
Fans overanalysing stuff shouldn’t count when criticizing movies. Rey’s parents being nobodies is exactly what’s great about the Last Jedi. Restarting fresh, hope, and the past having to be buried are the biggest themes in here, so her coming from nowhere, having no « precious blood » (vs. Ren, who’s the last Skywalker) is exactly what’s cool about this new trilogy. (Even Ren wants to bury the past).
(Oh and Abrams gave his approval to Johnson about the script)
Anyway, great stuff as always, even though I don’t agree with your points about Disney’s decisions/involvment in the music, I really appreciate your videos and am looking forward to more videos in 2018!
Catherine H. a) I don’t see how me commenting that suggests that my mom fucks people for a living
b) where did I say that Ren « deserved » to be a Skywalker more than Rey?
c) Parentage doesn’t have to do with « merit », you don’t choose/deserve your parent
d) Rey being a Skywalker would have been the easiest narrative decision they’d have ever done. And it would have made no sense(eg: Is now Luke someone who would abandon a child? Some people already hate him being « isolated/sad/done with the force », if on top of that, he would have sold a kid...
e) her coming from nowhere is what’s interesting about this trilogy, how would there be an « awakening » if she would be a Skywalker
So anyway, i don’t expect you to underatand, if you were stupid enough to wish for Rey to be a Skywalker when watching TLJ, you’re pretty much too far gone. Have a good day.
It’s almost like Williams knew Disney had no idea what they were doing and covered every possible base he could. Although I did hear palpatines theme in Rey’s ostinato in the theater and thought (huh that’s weird, though I go have an undergrad in music with theory and composition emphasis).
Yeah, it did become more and more apparent as the sequel trilogy went on that Disney were making it by the seat of their pants, and didn't have a concrete plan they could stick with. Pretty neat how Williams managed to accommodate that.
My goodness, the stuff you are able to take from the musical themes, I'm completely blown away! Also I have so much more respect for JW now wow. I have no doubt that this is exactly what went down XD
5:47 I guess it could make sense by showing that Finn saves Poe in a Stormtrooper outfit similar to how Luke saves Leia in IV? Lmao I don't know
I like how Lord Commander John Williams basically used his own music to write his own FanFiction
OK, so I just saw the 9th movie (not gonna lie, enjoyed it,) but I recognized that they were making this up as they went along due to story beats and things I heard on the internet suddenly coming true. And now I'm watching this, and you were able to figure this out ahead of time. The more I watch your videos the more I realize that music, well utilized, is one of the greatest tools for storytelling, foreshadowing, and, conceivably, plot twists.
So, if ever by some crazy twist of fate I am able to put together a story production, I will want to dedicate a lot of my funds to a great composer. XD
I LOVED the titles you gave John Williams!
Emporer. 1:24
Found this video's typo, guys!
Emporer Palpatine
Did anyone else get chills? Seriously. I got choked up a bunch of times during this video. I love Star Wars music... It's magical to talk about which tunes go with which characters.
@7:32 Technically, it isn't even called "Obi-Wan Kenobi's Theme." In the original score sheets, the cue is titled "R3P2 (Reel 3, Part 2) NEW." i.e. John Williams never initially gave the cue a name. But over time, people ended up calling the cue Binary Sunset, then Obi-Wan Kenobi's Theme, and then The Force Theme. And here we are today. And that's my $0.02 cents. 😊
Out of curiosity, what's up with the chord in your profile pic? E 3/4 flat-G natural-C 3/4 sharp?
@Ｙｕｎｇ Ｖｕｌｐｉｘ
It's a quarter-tuned Italian Sixth chord. But really, I crafted it with aesthetics as a priority over tonal quality. 😊
Ohhhh! I've heard of quarter tone triads like neutral thirds, sub/super minor/major, etc and was really confused trying to figure it out as a triad when it's actually a wonky spelling of an augmented sixth. Thanks haha.
@Ｙｕｎｇ Ｖｕｌｐｉｘ
Anytime.
@Ｙｕｎｇ Ｖｕｌｐｉｘ
Hey, there. It's me again. I remembered our conversation, and I thought you might like this creation of mine. And if you do like it, spread the word. 😊
ua-cam.com/video/iqPDjjTXFWw/v-deo.html
It's cool how much this video talked about stuff I've been thinking about for months.
Rey’s theme containing the Imperial March actually makes more sense now in the context of it representing the Empire rather than Vader. The Empire WAS Palpatine, and Rey is his granddaughter.
Brooks Alderman It’s amazing how Williams constructed such a universal theme for Rey that ultimately was flexible enough for any path ROTS took
Funny how they didn't even realise this when making the films
Brooks Alderman yeah but that wasn’t planned when Force Awakens was made. Palpatine coming back was just a last minute thing due to the Last Jedi writing everyone into a corner. It would’ve made more sense for Rey to have Palpatine’s theme in hers, not Vader’s, though.
@@aguy1272 they did
@@ImThePerson0 it was planned from the beginning
Keep laying your sweet knowledge on me my man. Great video
“A thousand generations live in you now”
I think the reason they did that is bc that is one of the main ideas of the movie, that the force is not just something for the skywalkers, but for everyone! I think the idea was that Luke was passing down the force to a new generation through death. So it makes sense that they would play it to accentuate that theme and cement the idea in our heads musically.
I don't care what you say, Binary Sunset/the Force theme playing over Luke's death was brilliant.
This is super late, but I thought of it as worth adding.
In the GBA adaptation of Revenge Of The Sith, you can play two separate paths as Anakin and Obi-Wan. Anakin's levels open with a more adventurous version of "Across The Stars" and in the latter half, the Imperial March. Obi-Wan gets the Binary Sunset theme, HIS theme throughout the whole game.
i just wish the story of the final trilogy was just as good as the meaning behind the music
As someone else pointed out, the track and sheet music from “The Empire Strikes Back” (3 years before RotJ) is titled “The Imperial March (Darth Vader’s Theme).” Williams clearly intended it that way, as it shows up in ESB in the swamp cave on Dagobah, when Luke attacks “Darth Vader” and the mask pops off to reveal Luke’s own face. We hear this leitmotif, and it clearly does not represent “The Empire” there. It represents Vader.
In the original “Star Wars” sheet music book, released long before ESB, there is a setting of the “Force” theme and it is titled “May The Force Be With You,” and is subtitled “Obi-Wan’s theme” if I remember correctly. It’s a full setting, just like the recordings of “Leia’s Theme” include material that is not heard in the movie. So just as with “The Imperial March,” the idea that Williams *only* intended it to be Ben’s theme is not consistent with what was said at the time of the movie/composition.
I think you think the other movies were planned long before they were. I know Lucas likes to give the impression that the entire original trilogy was planned before “A New Hope” started shooting, but there is tons of evidence that this simply isn’t true. Adjustments had to be made in backstory and leitmotif. It’s how the creative process goes.
This is for me tha top one review of this hole sequel trilogy
John Williams is a badass with his music and a fucking genius. I already knew that, as most people do, but god damn it's just revealed so much here with how well he constructed Kylo and Rey's themes just to be prepared for anything that could've happened with the sequels.