I drive a 1997 Ford Mondeo, and after watching your videos on the problems with ecu's I think I am going to pull mine from the car and renew the electrolitics, after 25 years of being in there they may well be getting near to their end of life. I do all my own bodywork and mechanics on the car, so would hate to have the ecu die because of capacitor leakage damage. I have done a lot of electronic repair work in the past, so changing caps out is something that I am more than capable of doing. Great video, really got me thinking.
My wife had a 96 Mondeo, which she sold to one of our sons. He drove it for many years and sold it for a pretty decent price. It was really fun to drive.
@@Stoneforth This is true. Not mil-spec or NASA grade, but better than the junk in the average washing machine. I guess they have to be good enough to keep the EPA happy.
I really love the IC packages on 90s electronics. Like that big IC in the middle. They always look like serious business. Now its all boring, unreliable BGA :(
That code on the computer connector is called a "Catch Code", and as you guessed defines the software on the PCM. "EFI SD48B" is the actual PCM hardware revision. Theoretically you could pull the ROM out of that dead ECU and put it into any EFI SD48B hardware and it will work. The EEC-IVs also have a "fail safe" mechanism where if the CPU doesn't start, it will fire the injectors a fixed amount every single pulse from the distributor. Usually results in black smoke and horrific operation - just enough to get the truck off the road basically.
Yea man, do it before it's too late. This is the worst I've seen thus far. Was thinking about this 95 Bronco OJ special I was looking at but now I think I'd wanna have a crack at that ECU since he says it's misfiring miss firing and running rich.
i had here a customers 1992 toyota carina 1.6liters gasoline, and i pulled the ecu to check a no throttle response problem. it has bosch motronic injection and there were no electrolytic caps inside...all high quality polyester caps., really nothing to fail on that one
If you can completely destroy the damaged traces and either have a schematic or can reverse engineer the layout, you could do point-to-point jumper wiring between the pins whose connections were damaged. I've seen some old computers repaired that way.
In theory, yes. In practice, as a layman with just a basic workshop, it's next to impossible to reverse engineer one of these multi-layer boards. Doing so non-destructively requires expensive equipment like an X-ray machine in a proper laboratory setup to map the mid-layer traces. The only way it could be feasible for the layman to do so is if Ford released the schematics for these boards, which frankly is very unlikely to ever happen.
1st of all good luck getting a schematic.. 2nd even if you get a schematic good luck finding the other ends of the traces it is. I used to do reverse engineering engineering of competitor products for a living and it's not as easy as it looks even with double later boards let alone multilayer.
Interesting video and another reason why I’m glad I stick with pre smog era cars. Cars became so needlessly over complicated when they started putting computers and sensors all over that control everything. Something simple and easy to repla
That's already overcomplicated to you? I bet you like Tesla's... Several sq ft. of multilayer PCBs with tons of smart phone level comppnents, programmed MCUs... "Green" car and yet disposable, LOL.
It's literally a 30 year old truck that was still operating up until this point. Not sure what more you could want. You'd be lucky to get 10-15 years out of a pre-smog-era 1970s and earlier vehicle. Hence why so few of them are left.
I wouldn’t own a Tesla unless you gave it to me and if you did I’d sell it and buy a couple more old cars 😀. My comment about about cars being needlessly over complicated was directed mainly at todays cars,but the early 80’s is when all this stuff really kicked in and auto makers began flirting with nascent technologies that proved problematic. (Anyone remember Cadillacs 4-6-8 engine?) Now today’s cars are basically computers on wheels. You don’t even have a key for the ignition anymore. When things break,and they do,they are extremely expensive to repair. Im guess I’m an oddball.I drive late 50’s and 60’s cars. They are daily drivers and have been so for many decades now. No bi annual smog checks,no computer headaches. They are all as reliable as a hammer and if something needs to be serviced everything’s easy to get at under the hood and and I do it myself. What’s more I enjoy every drive I make. I have friends with modern cars and have seen some of the expensive headaches they’ve had to deal with. Someone I know had the computer and transmission fail on a new Jeep they bought within 40k miles of owning it. Another person with a Ford suv had to rage the passenger side front wheel,axle out and other parts out just to replace an alternator because of the stupid location the engineers put it in. That’s not a computer related problem though. Anyway,Kudos to Shango for helping people out like this who come into his shop. Looks like depending on bad those capacitors leak they can be repaired sometimes.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 Hi,Yes,31 years is a good run. Auto makers don’t plan on you keeping a car that long anyway. Some of the late 80’s and early 90’s vehicles are very reliable. My comment was directed moreso at today’s vehicles. I posted a previous reply,but it never got approved I guess but it never showed up. That happens often. Lots of pre smog era cars are extremely reliable. A lot aren’t around because the bodies rusted out or they were crushed during the time when nobody wanted them as well. Today’s oils and transmission fluids have come a long way since the 50’s-70’s. . I had a Dodge Dart with a slant six and automatic that ran like a fine watch. It had over 280k on it when . Things last a long time when they are maintained and driven carefully.
@@Suddenlyits1960 I think you need a certain level of complexity to make a car really reliable, late 80s to early 2000s cars were probably the longest lasting vehicles ever made that's why so many are still around compared to cars that age in previous eras. Not as cool as the models from the 40s 50s and 60s but few cars from that era are really renowned for their reliability. Merc. W110 and/8, VW Beetle and Volvo Amazon being some of them, but not many US model IIRC.
Capacitors have weight. So GLUE or SCREW them solid when in automotive (vibrating) use. Electrolytes biggest problem is the sealing of the leads, so when in vibration, these leads get the full weight of the cap flapping in the breeze, and work themselves open to leakage or they dry out through that leaking spot.
Man.. That makes me nervous, as I have a couple 2nd gen Rangers, so I better pop those ECU's open and recap them, even if they don't need it (which I'm sure they do). 👍
I had a 96 version of that ECU (that one looks to be a 92), that the capacitors had failed in - truck would crank no start, no fuel pump prime. Replaced capacitors and checked traces, but could never get that ECU to work again. Fortunately I had a parts truck - replaced the caps in it as a preventative measure - been working since.
I've not spotted any leaking caps in my 90s Mercedes yet - just failed ones, and a lot of failed solder joints. They didn't use Japanese caps, so perhaps that made the difference.
I have repaired boards worse than that one. Includes grinding away the GRP and back filling with epoxy. It’s a lot of work but kind of fun at the same time. I agree not worth your time unless it’s for fun.
When I get one of those over the phone sales calls, I tell them I am Mr Yousef. When they get around to asking my first name, I tell them it's GoPhak...😆
@@bandittwothree3765 wrapping wire (28gauge I think) with the insulation stripped off for short breaks or single traces. I’ll leave the insulation on if most of the track is unrecoverable (longer runs) or multiple close to each other
I can attest to that living in the midwest. Road salt is the bane of my existence being someone who owns older (pre 2000) vehicles including an 89 F150.
I pulled the ECU out of my 92 Buick Roadmaster after watching a few of these videos, I was happy to find that it had a complete lack of electrolytics inside it.
@@shango066 they last long but they're finicky, i assume they don't anticipate other problems like spikes in the circuit to take out the caps but last way longer when everything goes right. Still i'd rather put electrolytics every 7 years than have a potential short circuit mode as the tantalum caps do
I think if you leave your vehicle parked in the sun a lot, the heat is just hammering the crap out of those capacitors. 200 degrees F (93.3 C) would not be uncommon inside a closed vehicle.
Same exact problem with my 93 Explorer last year. Just recapped it and put some quality bodge wires in for the bad traces. Seems this is coming due for a lot of these old early 90s fords as of late. Trucks good as new now.
Capacitors have weight. So GLUE or SCREW them solid when in automotive (vibrating) use. Electrolytic's biggest problem is the sealing of the leads, so when in vibration, these leads get the full weight of the cap flapping in the breeze, and work themselves open to leakage or they dry out through that leak spot.
i wonder why no one leave the leads long on electrolytes then bag them so when they leak they just eat themself up... but i guess spending that extra penny during production cost too much
I think those striations you're looking at are corrugations in the PCB and not traces. There's not enough logic on that board to account for so many tiny traces. Also, the way that multiple lines appear to pass underneath a single leg of an IC certainly calls this into question.
My Saturn ION has just dealt with capacitor plague as well. Its a 2005 so even newer vehicles are starting this. Only in my case, the entire PCM is expoxied so component level repair isnt even possible.
Yep,things were simpler. Before fuel injection if your fuel pump went bad you could change it then and there by the side of the road and be back In action in 15 minutes. Two bolts,a line in,a line out. Easy! Then fuel injection came and the pumps were electric and in the tank. Most American manufacturers didn’t make them easily accessible either. You had to tow the car home,jack up the car,remove the heat shield,drop the tank,remove the multiple hoses going to different things and remove and replace the pump. It’s my understanding some of the newer cars such as the mustangs have started putting access panels now under the passenger seat to make replacing the fuel pump easier. I changed a fuel pump for a friend who had one of the “new edge” mustang convertibles,she bought it new and it only had 50k when the pump failed. I had to drop the tank,get a special “quick disconnect” tool to remove the lines and put it back together the new fuel pump was bad out of the box. (Chinese quality control). Second time was the charm. That car also had electrical issues and the ac compressor failed.
I live in Socal and I actually repair these computers, but mostly for Old/vintage Mercedes-Benz cars. They have a LOT of capacitor/computer issues, but nothing like ive seen in your videos!! I wanted to comment on the Mazda truck video, but the comments are off. I noticed when you hit the vertical-mounted ceramic substrate daughter board with the freeze spray and it went nuts, well those small boards seem to be a common failure item, and I dont believe they can be repaired.
I doubt they were cheap. Automotive environment is very adverse to most items operating in it. Electronics is most susceptible to heat and cold along with humidity, vibration, and electrical transients of several types. I think the reliability is amazing.
Nichicon has an excellent reputation. And these were rated for 105 degrees C. They gave good service in a difficult environment. It's been 30 years, and the owner got a decent rebuilt part. Hardly seems disposable.
Had 2 caps fail in a Mitsubishi ECU, fried something in the 5V rail, I could measure unregulated 12V on the microprocessor where 5V should be.....cpu is dead ......rubicons are even worse than nichicons....
I think it's more likely that 5V voltage regulator failed and that fried both cap and cpu. But regulator might have gone to osccillating due to failed cap and for that reason everything got fried.
I bought a 1995 truck thinking it would be easier to maintain and it hasn't been bad, but an airbag control module and now the ECU makes me think I should go even older.
That board definitely needs a root canal and a crown. Those multi layer boards are a tough repair unless you have a layer map. Did it work correctly with new caps?
My A9L went bad due to these caps leaking. I honestly got lucky I think because only one cap appeared to do minimal damage to the small square positive pad under it. The other 2 are bad too but not leaking onto the board. Still gotta send this off to someone who can do a professional job unfortunately. My skills are not up to par to repair a trace.
I have a '93 F-150 with the PCM (EEC-IV). My sister has a '94 Toyota Camary, which you did one of those. Time to get them both pulled and recapped, will do both. Hope they haven't leaked their precious juice all over. Now I am curious as a cat just to see what they look like.
Between this and your two Toyota ecu videos.. you're making me feel like I should pull the ECU out of my 2000 Solara and recap it before the inevitable happens..
Ive got a 97 Dodge truck and Im thinking of doing this for it. Is it sufficient to order solid polymer caps at the same voltage and uF rating as the old electrolytics or is it more complicated than that?
That's also a common problem with the late 80's through early 00's Suzuki Sidekick/ Geo Tracker ECU's. The fuel pump not running during startup is usually a sign. By the time it gets to that point there's usually significant board damage.
"Eeeek Four" Electronic Engine Control Generation 4. Working on a 1990 5.8 in an E-350 Runs terrible. Been through the basics. Beginning to suspect a few injectors with shorted windings. Not a sequential injected, rather two banks of four injectors. If the coils aren't the same resistance then the lower resistance soaks up the most current and the open time or dwell is uneven.
Ford on board diagnostics generation 1 was pretty ingenious. You could do it with a paper clip and the check engine light or a test light. Key on engine off for basic inputs and outputs. Continuously monitored or memory codes came after that. Then there was the Key On Engine Running test which was very sensitive. Some could them be made to invoke cylinder balance test and some of those could repeat 3times to 5 % contribution sensitivity. Then there is the output cycling test and wiggle test. If you know those 5v modes you could quickly uncover problems that the GM datastream guys were still staring at the Snap-on "Brick" Tech One or OTC 2000 scanners. But I always felt a little blind. I never owned a "BOB" break-out box. Just T pins.
My stepfather had one that wouldn't fire on all cylinders. Had bad solder at the connector on the board for the ECU under dash in the passenger footwell. You could play with the harness and get it to run right. He swapped it out fixed the problem.
Good PSA. No doubt the ECU in my 1994 Ford Ranger needs recapping. Yikes, the polymer caps look like the small cans that puke on computer mother boards, etc.
Shango... Why does this happen all the time? You have this problem very frequently while I don't recall seeing many caps physically leaking i.e. spilling their juice out, a few purple Matsushitas maybe but never that bad and not many broken traces. Alkaline batteries, different story... Is it a Commyfornia temperature/moisture dependent thing?
Do you live in a colder climate? Of course caps will last practically forever if the average temp is 50 degrees F. With the high humidity and heat in Florida, I find tons of bad caps in electronics of this vintage all the time. LA is a very similar climate.
@@foxyloon Yeah it's mostly 50-60 F in autumn and spring, in summer in can get quite hot with high humidity and lots of thunderstorms. But pretty benign conditions compared to CA or Florida I guess. Interesting how the weather can impact capacitor performance.
Obtain a schematic diagram. As for the electrolytic capacitors, I would upgrade the temperature rating and the voltage rating subject to the rail voltages present (obeying the tenth voltage rule to maintain the dielectric). Notice Motorola typecodes on the ic's /CMOS 4000 series though some differences exist between manufacturers.
I wonder if liquid capacitors can be replaced with solid polymer capacitors on an ECU? I am planning on replacing the old liquid capacitors on my 97 Dodge Ram 1500 ECU. Would the lower ESR cause problems?
@@shango066 mine is not potted, they have 2 different forms, mine is a flexible pcb adheared to an aluminum shell the bends open like a book, it has thin conformal coating but no potting
What a tiny world just last week I had to re cap the computer in my '94 F-350 with an even worse mpg engine good old 7.5 460 and last month I did a re cap on just about everything in my 91 Honda prelude... that car was as stable as Charles Manson now just another Japanese appliance on the road lol
I've got a 98 f150 that has problems that other parts haven't corrected....suspect the computer likewise. But for what it's worth....they make an aftermarket replacement ECU for these Fords, but I'm tired of dumping money in to it. That replacement ECU they claim does it all.....but who actually knows?
92 was the last year of the third gen Firebirds and Camaros. Supposedly that year GM used new seam sealing technology and the cars were sturdier and quieter. The fourth gen cars that came after were ugly.
Does anybody know where the tachometer gets its signal from? My transmission is not shifting well and the tachometer is dead both of those occurred at the same time I've already changed the distributor out and had my PCU checked
This comment got me thinking.. some Googling shows they did have a 75 μF polycarbonate cap fail in a radio filter on Voyager 2 six months before it launched. The research paper seems pretty extensive and beyond my expertise, but it does seem they had a failed cap and caught it. But however they fixed it, it's still working.
From a report I read, they used polycarbonate capacitors on Voyager 2, and they probably also were used on 1. That type of capacitor is no longer produced apparently.
The electronic in my 1994 Ford Escort also causes a few problems, somehow there is too much voltage on the board electronics, which causes the switching unit for the light to burn out (I have to take everything apart and overhaul at some point)
Nobody thought any of these vehicles would still be on the road 25-30 yrs. later. But with new trucks costing $80k.....
If it was in the Midwest it would have turned to rust long before the caps started to leak.
for sure making these older truck values go up and harder to find good prices when trying to buy one now ,
I drive a 1997 Ford Mondeo, and after watching your videos on the problems with ecu's I think I am going to pull mine from the car and renew the electrolitics, after 25 years of being in there they may well be getting near to their end of life. I do all my own bodywork and mechanics on the car, so would hate to have the ecu die because of capacitor leakage damage. I have done a lot of electronic repair work in the past, so changing caps out is something that I am more than capable of doing. Great video, really got me thinking.
Hopefully the old caps havn't caused much damage, worth the effort :-D
My wife had a 96 Mondeo, which she sold to one of our sons. He drove it for many years and sold it for a pretty decent price. It was really fun to drive.
It's amazing how reliable these old 90s computers are compared to most other consumer electronics
for sure !
@@Stoneforth This is true. Not mil-spec or NASA grade, but better than the junk in the average washing machine. I guess they have to be good enough to keep the EPA happy.
I really love the IC packages on 90s electronics. Like that big IC in the middle. They always look like serious business. Now its all boring, unreliable BGA :(
Yeah much more interesting to look at. That big chip btw is an Intel 8061
That code on the computer connector is called a "Catch Code", and as you guessed defines the software on the PCM. "EFI SD48B" is the actual PCM hardware revision. Theoretically you could pull the ROM out of that dead ECU and put it into any EFI SD48B hardware and it will work.
The EEC-IVs also have a "fail safe" mechanism where if the CPU doesn't start, it will fire the injectors a fixed amount every single pulse from the distributor. Usually results in black smoke and horrific operation - just enough to get the truck off the road basically.
Interesting. What else do you know about these and what exposed you to all of it? Just curious. Thanks
Story time!
First it was old radios and TV's that needed to be recapped. Now we have to recap our cars!
Makes me want to yank the ECU in my 94 toyota and take a look....
Same story. However, I've opened it before and everything is good. But still, I think about ordering new polymer caps and shotgunning the board.
Same thing in Toyota and Honda.
Yea man, do it before it's too late. This is the worst I've seen thus far. Was thinking about this 95 Bronco OJ special I was looking at but now I think I'd wanna have a crack at that ECU since he says it's misfiring miss firing and running rich.
i had here a customers 1992 toyota carina 1.6liters gasoline, and i pulled the ecu to check a no throttle response problem. it has bosch motronic injection and there were no electrolytic caps inside...all high quality polyester caps., really nothing to fail on that one
Should I take a look at my 95 Chevy S10 Ecu as well?
If you can completely destroy the damaged traces and either have a schematic or can reverse engineer the layout, you could do point-to-point jumper wiring between the pins whose connections were damaged. I've seen some old computers repaired that way.
In theory, yes. In practice, as a layman with just a basic workshop, it's next to impossible to reverse engineer one of these multi-layer boards. Doing so non-destructively requires expensive equipment like an X-ray machine in a proper laboratory setup to map the mid-layer traces.
The only way it could be feasible for the layman to do so is if Ford released the schematics for these boards, which frankly is very unlikely to ever happen.
1st of all good luck getting a schematic.. 2nd even if you get a schematic good luck finding the other ends of the traces it is. I used to do reverse engineering engineering of competitor products for a living and it's not as easy as it looks even with double later boards let alone multilayer.
@@waltschannel7465 Reverse engineering of competitor products? What's your educational background?
Thanks Shango066. This reminds me I should recap my 1998 F150. Runs fine now but...
Interesting video and another reason why I’m glad I stick with pre smog era cars. Cars became so needlessly over complicated when they started putting computers and sensors all over that control everything. Something simple and easy to repla
That's already overcomplicated to you? I bet you like Tesla's... Several sq ft. of multilayer PCBs with tons of smart phone level comppnents, programmed MCUs...
"Green" car and yet disposable, LOL.
It's literally a 30 year old truck that was still operating up until this point. Not sure what more you could want. You'd be lucky to get 10-15 years out of a pre-smog-era 1970s and earlier vehicle. Hence why so few of them are left.
I wouldn’t own a Tesla unless you gave it to me and if you did I’d sell it and buy a couple more old cars 😀. My comment about about cars being needlessly over complicated was directed mainly at todays cars,but the early 80’s is when all this stuff really kicked in and auto makers began flirting with nascent technologies that proved problematic. (Anyone remember Cadillacs 4-6-8 engine?) Now today’s cars are basically computers on wheels. You don’t even have a key for the ignition anymore. When things break,and they do,they are extremely expensive to repair.
Im guess I’m an oddball.I drive late 50’s and 60’s cars. They are daily drivers and have been so for many decades now. No bi annual smog checks,no computer headaches. They are all as reliable as a hammer and if something needs to be serviced everything’s easy to get at under the hood and and I do it myself. What’s more I enjoy every drive I make.
I have friends with modern cars and have seen some of the expensive headaches they’ve had to deal with. Someone I know had the computer and transmission fail on a new Jeep they bought within 40k miles of owning it. Another person with a Ford suv had to rage the passenger side front wheel,axle out and other parts out just to replace an alternator because of the stupid location the engineers put it in. That’s not a computer related problem though.
Anyway,Kudos to Shango for helping people out like this who come into his shop. Looks like depending on bad those capacitors leak they can be repaired sometimes.
@@AmericanLocomotive1 Hi,Yes,31 years is a good run. Auto makers don’t plan on you keeping a car that long anyway. Some of the late 80’s and early 90’s vehicles are very reliable. My comment was directed moreso at today’s vehicles. I posted a previous reply,but it never got approved I guess but it never showed up. That happens often.
Lots of pre smog era cars are extremely reliable. A lot aren’t around because the bodies rusted out or they were crushed during the time when nobody wanted them as well. Today’s oils and transmission fluids have come a long way since the 50’s-70’s. . I had a Dodge Dart with a slant six and automatic that ran like a fine watch. It had over 280k on it when . Things last a long time when they are maintained and driven carefully.
@@Suddenlyits1960
I think you need a certain level of complexity to make a car really reliable, late 80s to early 2000s cars were probably the longest lasting vehicles ever made that's why so many are still around compared to cars that age in previous eras.
Not as cool as the models from the 40s 50s and 60s but few cars from that era are really renowned for their reliability. Merc. W110 and/8, VW Beetle and Volvo Amazon being some of them, but not many US model IIRC.
Leaking caps like this have proven to be a real problem to late 80s and early 90s macs for this very reason.
I have my Mac Se/30 that I am getting ready to replace all the capacitors
Capacitors have weight. So GLUE or SCREW them solid when in automotive (vibrating) use. Electrolytes biggest problem is the sealing of the leads, so when in vibration, these leads get the full weight of the cap flapping in the breeze, and work themselves open to leakage or they dry out through that leaking spot.
@@erikdenhouter There are new capacitors that mouser sells that meets the rigid demands of use in cars
@@richardbrobeck2384 Yes, for automotive use. Probably much thicker rubber seals, maybe half of the cap's can.
Man.. That makes me nervous, as I have a couple 2nd gen Rangers, so I better pop those ECU's open and recap them, even if they don't need it (which I'm sure they do). 👍
Gray & white cat says Meoww from teh cat heaven :3
I miss the hell out of that old cat. 🐱
I had a 96 version of that ECU (that one looks to be a 92), that the capacitors had failed in - truck would crank no start, no fuel pump prime.
Replaced capacitors and checked traces, but could never get that ECU to work again.
Fortunately I had a parts truck - replaced the caps in it as a preventative measure - been working since.
I've not spotted any leaking caps in my 90s Mercedes yet - just failed ones, and a lot of failed solder joints. They didn't use Japanese caps, so perhaps that made the difference.
We called these eek 4's when we first began manufacturing them at Motorola in Schaumburg, IL in the 80's.
I have repaired boards worse than that one. Includes grinding away the GRP and back filling with epoxy. It’s a lot of work but kind of fun at the same time. I agree not worth your time unless it’s for fun.
Those low esr caps always leak. Polymer is a great replacement
When I get one of those over the phone sales calls, I tell them I am Mr Yousef. When they get around to asking my first name, I tell them it's GoPhak...😆
I work on a lot of ECU’s like this, repair the traces, clean up the damage and replace the caps. 1KZ series are bad for the cap damage
what do you replace the traces with? 30 awg magnet wire?
@@bandittwothree3765 wrapping wire (28gauge I think) with the insulation stripped off for short breaks or single traces. I’ll leave the insulation on if most of the track is unrecoverable (longer runs) or multiple close to each other
How much to send you mine?
If that F150 lived its life in the Midwest the whole truck would look like those traces.
I can attest to that living in the midwest. Road salt is the bane of my existence being someone who owns older (pre 2000) vehicles including an 89 F150.
I pulled the ECU out of my 92 Buick Roadmaster after watching a few of these videos, I was happy to find that it had a complete lack of electrolytics inside it.
They still fail more often than Ford but GM used all tantalum capacitors
@@shango066 they last long but they're finicky, i assume they don't anticipate other problems like spikes in the circuit to take out the caps but last way longer when everything goes right. Still i'd rather put electrolytics every 7 years than have a potential short circuit mode as the tantalum caps do
I think if you leave your vehicle parked in the sun a lot, the heat is just hammering the crap out of those capacitors. 200 degrees F (93.3 C) would not be uncommon inside a closed vehicle.
Same exact problem with my 93 Explorer last year. Just recapped it and put some quality bodge wires in for the bad traces. Seems this is coming due for a lot of these old early 90s fords as of late. Trucks good as new now.
Capacitors have weight. So GLUE or SCREW them solid when in automotive (vibrating) use. Electrolytic's biggest problem is the sealing of the leads, so when in vibration, these leads get the full weight of the cap flapping in the breeze, and work themselves open to leakage or they dry out through that leak spot.
i wonder why no one leave the leads long on electrolytes then bag them so when they leak they just eat themself up... but i guess spending that extra penny during production cost too much
Ford is/was notorious for that. I’ve done my fair share of caps on these eec computers.
Why do your videos often end short? You were showin what a rebuilt ecu looks like, then kaput!
Leads me to belive I've missed something.
👍👍
I think those striations you're looking at are corrugations in the PCB and not traces. There's not enough logic on that board to account for so many tiny traces. Also, the way that multiple lines appear to pass underneath a single leg of an IC certainly calls this into question.
My Saturn ION has just dealt with capacitor plague as well. Its a 2005 so even newer vehicles are starting this. Only in my case, the entire PCM is expoxied so component level repair isnt even possible.
At times, I long for the days when it only took something like 5 wires for a vehicle engine to function.............
Yep,things were simpler. Before fuel injection if your fuel pump went bad you could change it then and there by the side of the road and be back In action in 15 minutes. Two bolts,a line in,a line out. Easy! Then fuel injection came and the pumps were electric and in the tank. Most American manufacturers didn’t make them easily accessible either. You had to tow the car home,jack up the car,remove the heat shield,drop the tank,remove the multiple hoses going to different things and remove and replace the pump. It’s my understanding some of the newer cars such as the mustangs have started putting access panels now under the passenger seat to make replacing the fuel pump easier. I changed a fuel pump for a friend who had one of the “new edge” mustang convertibles,she bought it new and it only had 50k when the pump failed. I had to drop the tank,get a special “quick disconnect” tool to remove the lines and put it back together the new fuel pump was bad out of the box. (Chinese quality control). Second time was the charm. That car also had electrical issues and the ac compressor failed.
@@Suddenlyits1960 The Ford Escorts had an access plate under the rear seat since about 1998, maybe even earlier.
I live in Socal and I actually repair these computers, but mostly for Old/vintage Mercedes-Benz cars. They have a LOT of capacitor/computer issues, but nothing like ive seen in your videos!!
I wanted to comment on the Mazda truck video, but the comments are off. I noticed when you hit the vertical-mounted ceramic substrate daughter board with the freeze spray and it went nuts, well those small boards seem to be a common failure item, and I dont believe they can be repaired.
the engine failed and that truck when to recycle where it belongs. the owner didnt like to check the oil
Ford didn’t expect that disposable pick up to stick around so long, that’s why they used the cheapest bottom of the barrel electronic components.
I doubt they were cheap. Automotive environment is very adverse to most items operating in it. Electronics is most susceptible to heat and cold along with humidity, vibration, and electrical transients of several types. I think the reliability is amazing.
Nichicon is not cheap they are very good components I use them when I am repairing electronics devices
Nichicon has an excellent reputation. And these were rated for 105 degrees C. They gave good service in a difficult environment. It's been 30 years, and the owner got a decent rebuilt part. Hardly seems disposable.
Very helpful video. Thanks for making it
Sharp Dressed Man.
Had 2 caps fail in a Mitsubishi ECU, fried something in the 5V rail, I could measure unregulated 12V on the microprocessor where 5V should be.....cpu is dead ......rubicons are even worse than nichicons....
I think it's more likely that 5V voltage regulator failed and that fried both cap and cpu. But regulator might have gone to osccillating due to failed cap and for that reason everything got fried.
I bought a 1995 truck thinking it would be easier to maintain and it hasn't been bad, but an airbag control module and now the ECU makes me think I should go even older.
That board definitely needs a root canal and a crown. Those multi layer boards are a tough repair unless you have a layer map. Did it work correctly with new caps?
The radio in my 1992 Taurus died yesterday, with a strong fish oil odor. I suspect an aging capacitor blew.
Same thing with my f250 ... note , vin ends in 666 so i just use it for target practice now
I've got one in the fleet. It's the evil twin of the other truck. I think it's 6666. It hasn't been bad in awhile.
My A9L went bad due to these caps leaking. I honestly got lucky I think because only one cap appeared to do minimal damage to the small square positive pad under it. The other 2 are bad too but not leaking onto the board. Still gotta send this off to someone who can do a professional job unfortunately. My skills are not up to par to repair a trace.
I have a '93 F-150 with the PCM (EEC-IV). My sister has a '94 Toyota Camary, which you did one of those. Time to get them both pulled and recapped, will do both. Hope they haven't leaked their precious juice all over. Now I am curious as a cat just to see what they look like.
Between this and your two Toyota ecu videos.. you're making me feel like I should pull the ECU out of my 2000 Solara and recap it before the inevitable happens..
Ive got a 97 Dodge truck and Im thinking of doing this for it. Is it sufficient to order solid polymer caps at the same voltage and uF rating as the old electrolytics or is it more complicated than that?
“FORD OWNER” is today’s phrase that pays on 104.9, high power, low IQ FM.
That's also a common problem with the late 80's through early 00's Suzuki Sidekick/ Geo Tracker ECU's. The fuel pump not running during startup is usually a sign. By the time it gets to that point there's usually significant board damage.
"Eeeek Four" Electronic Engine Control Generation 4.
Working on a 1990 5.8 in an E-350 Runs terrible. Been through the basics. Beginning to suspect a few injectors with shorted windings. Not a sequential injected, rather two banks of four injectors. If the coils aren't the same resistance then the lower resistance soaks up the most current and the open time or dwell is uneven.
Ford on board diagnostics generation 1 was pretty ingenious. You could do it with a paper clip and the check engine light or a test light. Key on engine off for basic inputs and outputs. Continuously monitored or memory codes came after that. Then there was the Key On Engine Running test which was very sensitive. Some could them be made to invoke cylinder balance test and some of those could repeat 3times to 5 % contribution sensitivity. Then there is the output cycling test and wiggle test. If you know those 5v modes you could quickly uncover problems that the GM datastream guys were still staring at the Snap-on "Brick" Tech One or OTC 2000 scanners. But I always felt a little blind. I never owned a "BOB" break-out box. Just T pins.
My stepfather had one that wouldn't fire on all cylinders. Had bad solder at the connector on the board for the ECU under dash in the passenger footwell. You could play with the harness and get it to run right. He swapped it out fixed the problem.
Good PSA. No doubt the ECU in my 1994 Ford Ranger needs recapping. Yikes, the polymer caps look like the small cans that puke on computer mother boards, etc.
Shango... Why does this happen all the time? You have this problem very frequently while I don't recall seeing many caps physically leaking i.e. spilling their juice out, a few purple Matsushitas maybe but never that bad and not many broken traces.
Alkaline batteries, different story...
Is it a Commyfornia temperature/moisture dependent thing?
Please tell us more about this capacitor utopia where you live...
Do you live in a colder climate? Of course caps will last practically forever if the average temp is 50 degrees F.
With the high humidity and heat in Florida, I find tons of bad caps in electronics of this vintage all the time. LA is a very similar climate.
@@foxyloon
Yeah it's mostly 50-60 F in autumn and spring, in summer in can get quite hot with high humidity and lots of thunderstorms. But pretty benign conditions compared to CA or Florida I guess. Interesting how the weather can impact capacitor performance.
@@foxyloon You know where it's really hot? Under the hood of a car.
@@Milkmans_Son You know where most ECUs are installed in 90s cars? Under the dash.
Obtain a schematic diagram. As for the electrolytic capacitors, I would upgrade the temperature rating and the voltage rating subject to the rail voltages present (obeying the tenth voltage rule to maintain the dielectric). Notice Motorola typecodes on the ic's /CMOS 4000 series though some differences exist between manufacturers.
Do you have a link to the capacitors you're replacing these with?
If you want longevity you can't beat old fashioned points and condensers
Advanced Member level 5 You need a film cap. The lowest leakage film caps are Teflon PTFE or Polystyrene PS
Sorry, crying Dro to mail?
8:34 just do like people did at a computer repair shop I used to work at, write bad on it and stick it on a shelf.
You need to put some Crepe Erase on that board, to erase the rotten copper.
The ROHS compliant boards don't last as long as the old leaded ones did anyway.
I wonder if liquid capacitors can be replaced with solid polymer capacitors on an ECU? I am planning on replacing the old liquid capacitors on my 97 Dodge Ram 1500 ECU. Would the lower ESR cause problems?
Dodge ecus are usually potted.
@@shango066 mine is not potted, they have 2 different forms, mine is a flexible pcb adheared to an aluminum shell the bends open like a book, it has thin conformal coating but no potting
What a tiny world just last week I had to re cap the computer in my '94 F-350 with an even worse mpg engine good old 7.5 460 and last month I did a re cap on just about everything in my 91 Honda prelude... that car was as stable as Charles Manson now just another Japanese appliance on the road lol
did your f350 computer use the same value caps as the one in this video?
I've got a 98 f150 that has problems that other parts haven't corrected....suspect the computer likewise. But for what it's worth....they make an aftermarket replacement ECU for these Fords, but I'm tired of dumping money in to it. That replacement ECU they claim does it all.....but who actually knows?
Anyone know if GMs suffer this problem? I have a 95 Chev, I guess I should just check it but I hate to mess around with the ECU when it runs great.
I'm pretty sure the GM stuff from that Era is all surface mount, at least the ECU in my 92 firebird is.
@@maxpowerta3183 Nice, as mine is a Camaro.
92 was the last year of the third gen Firebirds and Camaros. Supposedly that year GM used new seam sealing technology and the cars were sturdier and quieter. The fourth gen cars that came after were ugly.
gm was all tantalum caps all the way back to 1980
@@Suddenlyits1960 This is true, the 92 convertible I have is actually much more solid than the rattle trap 89 Iroc I just picked up.
What a shame, dam electrolitics :-(
:-) complimenti
is it a common fault with capacitors leaking in other ecu on other cars
Does anybody know where the tachometer gets its signal from? My transmission is not shifting well and the tachometer is dead both of those occurred at the same time I've already changed the distributor out and had my PCU checked
When will humans reach a point of developing no-leaky capacitors!?
They have, the solid polymer electrolytics but they are more expensive.
Looking at that new board there.... yea... I would take that back and throw it at them.
this is fLux king rad.
aLL this shazzbott.. coulda been avoided w/ 10' more oF copper wiring. . . and the placement of this module in a more controlled envirnmump.
Sharp dressed man😊zz top
European gas prices are about $9/gallon. Just saying. Hope it makes you guys feel better over there.
Our fuel prices have doubled since brandon took over.
It won't. Europe has superior transportation infrastructure so your 9$ whilst more expensive isn't that costly on the average person.
@@carlmenger9145 right but what if you wanna go anywhere you want
I’m guessing there are no electrolytic capacitors on voyager 1 and voyager 2 spacecraft?
This comment got me thinking.. some Googling shows they did have a 75 μF polycarbonate cap fail in a radio filter on Voyager 2 six months before it launched. The research paper seems pretty extensive and beyond my expertise, but it does seem they had a failed cap and caught it. But however they fixed it, it's still working.
probably all tantalum
@@shango066 nah probably all polys, tantalums especially from that era would be all failed short by now
From a report I read, they used polycarbonate capacitors on Voyager 2, and they probably also were used on 1. That type of capacitor is no longer produced apparently.
Mmmm, I think I will pull my 2002 ranger ECM and check it.
👍
does anyone know if the caps would be the same in other obs fords like a 92 f250 7.5?
1:53 literally crapped the PCB bed!
nightmare.... lot of work to fix ... parts board...
I could repair this board, but it's an expensive process for sure
CIRCLED THE PROBLEM
Am I supposed to say "shango-oh-66" or "shango-zero-66"? I don't want to be saying wrong in my head you know. Thanks.
"Shango zero six six"
I always thought "Shango zero sixty six".
@@zarekpirkola7095 Probably a call sign from the Gulf war or something. Cool, thanks!
Camera died
The man 1yes
2no
EEC-4 ( IV )
Ah! hello shango boa tarde, vou começar a ver o seu vídeo
If you had the right tools.... a tire tool is not the one!!!
Of course, Ford runs interior board tracks right under those capacitors, if there is a shitty way to do something Ford will find it.
Hello from Hong Kong Pong Kung Fu Panda Jujitsu Karate kid the King Kong Ping Pong 🙂...I do live in UK Kent 🤫
Hello sir
@shango006 I need assistance in the direction of what kind place does this kind of work. I need my 3 replaced.
The electronic in my 1994 Ford Escort also causes a few problems, somehow there is too much voltage on the board electronics, which causes the switching unit for the light to burn out (I have to take everything apart and overhaul at some point)