🔥What Does Arc Force (Dig) Actually Do?
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- Опубліковано 12 сер 2018
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Today we're talking about the advanced stick welding feature, arc force (or dig). This feature does exactly what is sounds like, it allows the arc to have a more powerful digging characteristic. This is good in some situations and bad in other. In this video we are going to show you what the feature does at its extremes and see what electrodes it works well with and which ones it doesn't.
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Finally someone that explains features the way I can understand and use it proper
I like the explanation of how arc force "feels" or affects the weld in practical terms. However it's also worth understanding what's actually happening - stick welding is meant to be a "constant current" process, but as you wind up the arc force, it allows the weld current to increase above the panel setting as the arc length shortens. So at full arc force, your 100A panel setting might allow up to , say, 120A as the stick gets right in there, whereas at zero arc force, it'll maybe max out at 105A. The ultimate "no arc force" is TIG, where 100A on the dial is exactly all that'll it'll deliver at the electrode.
Gaf thanks
Gaf Thanks for the explanation. It seems the welding "experts" were verbalising with not actually having a clue what it did.
So if you have Arc Force, what would you normally set it to?
I read somewhere that the Arc Force comensated for the shortening of the welding rod as it gets used.
Using a engine drive welder with the arc force control system (Lincoln gxt 250) where do you set the arc force for 7018 1/8 rods? Then where do you set the arc force for running a wire feeder (activ8 with 1/16 dual shield) thanks.
Wrong. The arc force or dig effects your voltage. Voltage is what creates the arc and sets your arc gap. When running 7018, you only need maybe 1/16 arc gap so you set your dig, or arc force, to a lower setting maybe 30%, when running 6010, you need more arc gap so the machine needs more voltage, therefore you adjust the dig, or arc force up to maybe 70%.
The machines are a constant current, they will attemp to maintain that current setting, the only variable is voltage, which controls your arc.
The reason I love this channel is because Mr. Bob remind me a lot of my first welding teacher. Down to earth and a bottomless well of information. He had a tool for every problem it seemed like. Whenever I had trouble figuring out a technique, he was always able to point me in a different direction to help me grasp what I was trying to do.
Cutting Bob loose is the makings for the best videos... Just let the video go, Bob's a good personality and you don't need to edit so much of it out.
Love this format. Even from the back, it was clear the difference in the Arc Force. I'ma going to have to be experimenting with that feature. Thanks for the lesson!
Bob I would love to see you and Jody over there at welding tips and tricks do a video one day.
Those are the two best youtube welding instructors period. Combine them any you can learn just about everything there is to know about welding.
Can I supper like this comment
Hell yeah! Be an awesome thing.
Something about welding instructors, man. Y'all are just so cool.
not all
I saw a definite bigger keyhole. It looked like it was about to get out of control but you moved up then down and put that root right in there! Awesome!
Thank you Bob! Good stuff to know, it's always funner when someone els plays with the arc force and I get to watch. 👍👍
Amazing! Great information ESAB appears to have one hell of a machine line up!
Great info to learn from.
Thanks Adam 👊
I needed this today thank you so much for the existence of this video! I learned from it. 👍🏽
I like the explanation. I will need to play with this setting on my everlast welder to see it for myself.
Cowley College is lucky to have you as an instructor Bob. great information
Thank you so much for this explanation!
Thank you. Looks like it’s more geared for roots or rough tacks. It’s a feature on my machine, and I appreciate more of an understanding. Don’t knock it till you tried it.
Thanks guys. I was wondering how and when to use different arc force settings. My old Hobart transformer never had such cool things. The new inverter is actually proving to be a joy to use.
Belive the or not a man Jim Allen taugt me welding backing in 1966 in Ashtabula Ohio !welders called a pee)hole now a key hole times changes .dont thay?!?!
As a beginner hobby welder, it definitely helps me tie in easier when I run lower amperage on thin metal. I'm forced to tie in often because thin metal forces me to weld short beads. As I restart the arc and back the rod over the end of the previous weld I often get too close and end up sticking my rod, with arc force I dont stick, it blows back the slag. Very useful
Arc force is best for welding dirty or corroded base metals. Also helps lower wandering arcs when welding in corners, such as angle iron fab. I’ll use more dig when I’m welding flat, but rarely use it on pipe.
Awesome video. Makes you remember Fowler arc force on the ole 200s . That's a pretty cool feature on that esab for off the shelf machine
Great video, I was wondering why my everlast was acting funny when running sticks and I just noticed the dig arc force knob must have been bumped by a glove way up high. Now I know, and it could be handy in some situations. Thanks guys!
Arc force relates to the amount of voltage in the puddle. The higher the arc force the lower the voltage, and vice versa. Voltage has several effects on the puddle, high voltage/low arc force results in a smoother more fluid and slower to solidify puddle with less penetration. This in my opinion makes a lower arc force setting more appealing for the cap pass/passes. I however prefer a high arc force/low voltage setting for the root and hot pass and fill. The high arc force will give a better hot start, more penetration where it matters on the walls of the pipe, the puddle will solidify faster allowing you to hold the walls and really let them fill up without undercutting drooping or falling out this makes flushing out a heavy wall pipe much faster with a flat profile when weaved. This is particularly helpful on the bottom of a 5g pipe. A high arc force also believe it or not gives in my experience less chance of blowing through the root pass due to the higher solidification rate, it will also really punch the previously deposited root in. High arcforce also helps ensure any wagon tracks are burnt out.The drawbacks to high arc-force are as mentioned lots of spatter, arc blow, a higher rougher bead profile when stringered.
Both voltage and amperage are also relative to arc length. A longer arc results in lower amperage and higher voltage in the puddle and a shorter arc length results in lower voltage and increased amperage. With a low arc force setting the machine will only allow a limited amount of amperage as per the manual amperage setting. With a high arc force setting the amperage control is quite literally in the hands of the welder. On a high arc force setting you can increase the amperage by shortening your arc length. The high setting will not allow the arc to be snuffed out so you can literally shove the rod into the puddle and it will just increase the amperage and thereby increasing burn off rate and weld deposition. A longer arc length will increase the voltage resulting in slower burn off and deposition rates a wetter puddle a smoother wider bead with a lower profile.
That is what good teaching looks like folks.
Mr. Bob ! All of you and the other welding info sites really take me back to my old days. These videos are relaxing as can be! When you work side by side with young and old skilled people it truly shows how age is a number.
"Stay current." I laughed.
Great info gentlemen!!
Thank you for your review. Very useful
Love the content ! New to channel but it's a keeper
Nice vid, you should do the same thing with the inductance setting on a CV machine.
I would like to see Bob go over the soft and stiff settings of a miller trailblazer 325 as far as I’m concerned is the best welding teacher I have ever ran across and I’ve been welding for a long time
JR Jonas I just bought one and it's awesome
Yes they are I have one to for about a year or year and half I think they are awesome machines
Please keep making video on this machine!!!
Thankyou so much for this video! I now know why my 2 last welds acted different.
Dig is like welding with an SA200, either 3rd gear and high, or 4th gear and low, both the same amperage, but a world of difference in how the rod behaves
from the esab warrior manual:
Arc force: the arc force is important to set the variation of the current compared to the arc length variation. a lower value give a more stable arc with less weld drops.
Hey Bob, would it be of any value to maybe do the same kind of settings exploring/explanation on the SA200?
a suggestion do a split screen comparaison when welding 10 % arc force VS 100% arc force
Very interesting, great vids as always.
I love your videos man , I really hope to start welding for money .
Will you get a chance to review this machine on a downhill pipe weld? I’m curious how it handles cellulose rods all the way out.
Would've been interesting to see if the slag covering the puddle during welding with 6013 can be pushed away from covering the puddle with increased arc force.
I saw the first pass was smoother and the second pass at 100% you were going up and down to keep the weld going.
thanks for sharing, i was asking myself what is "arc force" in stick welding.
Gotta love how Bob talks about welding. "Crank it in there n bust it thru diggin n snappin sounds kinda crispy" *makes fart noise with his mouth*
Holy crap, Bob, you might’ve solved my issue with open butt 3G today. My dig was set at 65 for a 6010 1/8” rod. I had to baby it, which caused me to have a much thicker root pass than usual.
Gabriel Schleder 6010 You should have arc force set high / 7018 you set it around 35%
Welding Junkie, even as a root for 3/8” open butt? I can see needing the 6010 high dig for hot and fill passes. I need the same dig for root on a standard open butt with 3/32” landings? I appreciate the help!
Gabriel Schleder 6010 is a cellulose Rod you don’t need arc force for it as people have been running 6010 for ever without it. It does help tho. Now dig is for deeper penetration dig is nice to have. Arc force just helps to get the rod lite and keep it going no matter what.
I also use pulse stick for overhead on my HTP Invertig 221. I use pulse for larger gap like root or butt Maybe someone with pipe welding can chime in. 6010 for hot and 7018 for fill and cap but as far as butt are you talking pipe or plate?
not to mention 6010 already has a stronger arc force.
completely out of control?
I noticed years ago on ships the arc-force setting is only really needed with very thick metal plate. Good video and illustration. I love your videos.
Thank you, greatly appreciate your video.
It's like an artificial/digital version of what fine current/OCV adjustment does on classic engine drives. Got a really good taste of that on a Hobart 222 a couple days ago. I wonder how much the resonance of the current (like frequency on AC tig) works the same way. There's just something about how pure DC smoothly slices into the metal in a way that processed and rectified current doesn't quite imitate.
Good show!
I dont know if anyone else has used the welder there but me personally I love that thing
Hey have been following your videos..... I appreciate there are so much hoping......
Can u do more on vertical up video please.....
I love running 7018 with the arc force turned down. It makes such a huge difference.
very well described
Thanks a lot
I always thought the Arc force helps compensate for arc length....so if you have trouble maintaining consistent arc lenth the arc force helps compensate for you. ie. Short arc length higher amperage, longer arc lenth lower amperage.
Need. Some pointers for 5x aluminum using a spool gun
Bob, You truly are the " Mr. Rogers" of welding.......... " Hi kids, let's all weld today" " Now ya'll gotta be careful on the 6010 root-pass" ......... LMBO!!!! Bob, I'm your age....... I learn so much from you and WELD.COM......... GBYAY!!! and Mr. Rogers was a GREAT guy.
Looked to me like Bob went into whip mode on the higher arc force, as an experienced welder would naturally do. He was able to drag more with the softer arc (low arc force).
Please bare with me and continue reading as I guarantee to provide a clear & easy explanation as below:
The arc force control, when provided on the power supply, is used to adjust the slope of the volt-ampere curve (). Each power source may have a different slope (or inclination degree) for the volt-ampere curve. Some machines are designed to enable some adjustment of the slope by the aid of an arc force control knob.
Thus, when you are actually adjusting the arc force control knob then you are adjusting the slope or inclination degree of the volt-ampere curve. Changing the slope of the curve will affect the for a . Arc voltage changes when you change your CTWD (which is the contact-tip-to work-distance or also called the arc length). Why is this arc force control useful!?
If you are welding a root pass with a uniform root gap and uniform root face on both sides in a butt joint then it is good to have little changes in the current you have already set before start. When you start welding and your arc length changes repeatedly then you will get a little change in your welding current and little effect over your penetration and less susceptible to a key hole in your root pass.
However, professional welders who has a butt joint to weld. They need to adjust the arc force control in order to flatter or lower the slope of the volt-ampere curve which will give the welder the chance to change the arc length whenever they need to have a change in the current to adapt to the changes of root gap or even root face. This will aid the welder to perform better on having a uniform penetration on the root pass rather than having a little to no penetration in the root pass or sometimes get a "key-hole in root or hot-pass"
:
Adjusting the arc force control to lower the slope of the volt-ampere curve will lead to a greater change in the range of welding current for a given change in arc voltage. Arc voltage changes as a result to a change in the contact-tip-to work-distance or also called the arc length. When you stick the electrode closer to the weld pool (arc length decrease) then the voltage drops and the current increase but when you stick out (arc length increase) then your voltage increase and consequently the current decrease.
In the volt-ampere curve, when the slope of the curve is steep, a range of voltage change between 22 - 32 is equivalent to a current range of 15 amps!
However, when the slop of the curve is flatter, a range of voltage change between 22 - 32 is equivalent to a current range of 40 amps!
Thus, manipulating the arc force control will let you get a change of 15 to 40 amps when you change the arc length.
Please feel free to propose w better summary to my explanation.
Link to the volt-ampere curve is: www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-7148090527236653056-Cmuz?
very nice welding machine ESAB..i wish i had one😊
I am from Kerala.. Good video's sir
Help full video.s... Thank you
High arc force is like a blowtorch.
Always wonderful manger👍👍👍👍👍
Hallo Bob, and thanks for the good video. May I ask you what do you mean by setting Arc force to 100%, do you mean 85A as the Welding current that you have set or , 100% of the Welding current capability of the machine (which must be I believe around 200A)? Thanks again Spiros
I have on my miller xmt 350 that the arc force or inductance you can turn it up and back off on the amps itll flatten out 7018 in all positions. I think it's a more useful tool with the xx10 rods
I think that works also good for 7018's
OK I've noticed this setting on my Everlast welder but never touched it. Now I think I actually understand what it can be used for.
My older everlast doesn't seem to change as much as other brands I have tried a couple everlast machines advertised to run 10's and don't work worth using. You have any luck?
Could you do the side to motion on this too?
Please make aluminium frame welding video tutorials using right machines and greatest
technique ... thank you very much
"Arc force" on the old Lincoln "Bullet " Deisel set was covered by the voltage control. As you probably know Mr Moffat You could run an old "Fleetweld 5" as softly as a 6013 or as agressively as a cutting electrode by simply adjusting this particular control.
Here I go hitting the like button again !
I'm strongly considering adding in the Arc Force modification in my SA200.
Erik Olsson Sa 200 already has arc force
Yeah
from 10% too 100% you can see the difference in the metal blowing away as well good demonstration
but they didn't tell which is better, probably 10%?
So medium to high arc force for 6010 and 6011
And low arc force for 7018.
I just bought the esab es150 g
And it's a beast. I like the machine, i just didn't know how to adjust the arc force on it ..
It does have an arc force setting but it's basic.
the arc force goes From 1 to 10
It's doesn't really say percentage. Just 1 through 10.
Now i can get setting right 👍
Thank you both
Would it be right to say that flux core usually has a higher arc force than mig? Definitely sounds crispy
Great video. I know welding boiler tubes, most of us are 0% arc force on the tig root and 30 to 40% arc force on the stick fill and cap. It's usually 8018 or 9018 on the stick, depends where you're at in the boiler.
Why do you turn it up?
@@enrique4737 to help limit porosity. To get a little hotter start.
If your not familiar with welding tubes in the boiler it's a little different. A lot of welds on boiler tubes you can't make by yourself. We buddy weld in the boiler. Just say if your partner starts the weld you will be waiting for them to bring the weld to you. As they get to the side you will stick your rod in and light up off their rod, they will pull out when your rod is lit. You continue around the tube if you are able to get all around your side they will pick you up on the side to finish out the weld. Reason being to limit start ups. The starts are where you most likely get any porosity. Hope this makes since. Also, most boilermaker welders run their machines hot when welding tubes. To be a good boiler tube welder it helps tremendously to have a good partner.
Mr. Moffatt what are you using to bevel the 3/8 plate? Joint preperation is so crucial on an uphill vertical stick root, maybe you could show us the steps for making a joint in our favor.
Thanks sir
it's awesome to tag along with this welder-to-welder instruction & discussion #missingmoffat #bringbobback
I noticed you didn't show yourself changing the setting for the rod you were using, was that edited out or not done?
So is it safe to say you can leave the dig/arc force at zero or 10% and still get proper penetration?. I suppose just going up a few degrees on amperage will help penetration anyway?
im curious if your running voltage was higher at 100%.
I never grind my roots “just hotpassing through”🤘🏽🤘🏽
Do you pass xray?
I wish I knew what they were talking about
ElNino BigDog same
Lol, what would you like someone to elaborate on?
The colder you weld the higher the Arc Force.
Stainless and 6010 turn it up
Bob I see you got that esab halo shield. How do you like it?
You were doing vertical up, is it normal to angle the rod down. At weld school I was taught to angle the rod up, am I doing it wrong.
Welders are in another world at times, 😃
We're in a dark hood all day every day. Of course we're in our own crazy ass world
@@Mikey-ym6ok Dark unless you got that ESAB Sentinel A50 lid.
Did you change the 6010 6011 vs all other rods parameter?
What brand rod are those e7018?
According to the EMP 285ic 1 PH, user manual:
"Arc force
: On stick welding increasing amps when the arc length is shortened to reduce or
eliminate the
freezing of the stick electrode in the weld puddle."
So the amperage increases when the stick is moved closer to the puddle. That means you are operating at more than the set 85 amps when you get close to the puddle.
Mye Flatley thanks fot the explanations may it fix my hot and sometimes fill pass problem 😄
Can you do a video of the best PPE
I wonder how to recognize difference between high amps versus dig; is it equal, can you get the same effect by cranking or reduce amperage( some inverter machines have dig built in but not adjustable setting)
I am a mathematician not a real welder, so whatever I write below may or may not have a real world relevance. All of the following is theoretical, from analysis of SOME of the voltage vs current characteristics of the inverters.
"Dig" gives the welder the ability to control current with just the gap length. Otherwise you would have to turn the knob on the machine. This explains the "punch through" ability of the "dig". As you shorten the gap, the current increases (the "dig" setting allows that) and the melt intensifies. But it is NOT "equal" to cranking amperage on the CC inverter. With "dig" you lose some of the arc stabilization which normally the CC inverter does for you. Oscillation of the arc can arise, this would explain the "jet engine noise" mentioned in the video. As the current can pulsate with "dig", molten metal can splatter around and things like that.
The percentage in the "dig" setting refers to the magnitude of allowable current variation. At "100%" you get the whatever magnitude the inverter designer deemed as maximal practical. At "0%" you get CC.
This ends the welding part of this post, whatever it's worth. But I have the following loose thought. "Dig" makes the otherwise perfect current stabilization of the inverter somewhat imperfect. So now it is up to the operator to use and control this imperfection, for the operator's purpose. With an "ideal" tool there is not much operator can do, as the machine will stubbornly stick to what it was told to do in it's settings. This is like with musical instruments. Real virtuoso will use, on purpose, imperfections of the instrument, to get sensible musical effects which would be impossible if the instrument was ideal.
Having an Lincoln that you can't set arc force this is great information what is your angle on this.
Leonard Gilbreath Pretty much straight in.
Should have shown the front of the machine at the different settings to see the amperage and voltage readout?
This mans rod just ran that entire root, how long was that fxxxing rod?
What's the gap and land in that first uphill weld? I drag my 6010s and my next task in school is vertical up open root
10-35% is good for 7018 you get good freezing etc 65-85% for 6010 works good as far as for me. Good video tho. Keep up the good work
For 6013 what is your suggestion on arc force ?
The old Lincoln "Bullet" DC generator had this facility.
Be a nice feature for Migs to adapt to in my opinion.
the more expensive miller mig welders _do_ have an arc force setting.
I'm running a lincoln gas or diesel welder, it sounds hot but beads are cold, is the machine trash now or what's wrong, my dig is at 50% and I'm at 117 for amps with 200+ feet of lead
Okay nice video but ive got some questions: I watched a pipeliner explain the arcforce setting and he basicly said its like ajusting the volt settings on the older maschines. So if u turn the volts up (arcforce down) the puddle gets more liquid and has less penetration and the same in reverse. Aditionaly he said, on machines that are older with fixed amp control u can take the higher amp setting and lower the volts (set the arcforce higher) than u can weld quicker. Now i would like to see a comparison of two welds run at 130 and 150 amps one with a low arcforce and the other with a higher arcforce and compare witch is faster (with a 1/8 7018 for example). If u think im totally wrong pls correct me, and as always keep up the great work!
I think you may have reversed it a bit. Higher voltage would result in higher temperature in the weld.
That man's talking about a feildres clip. Very informative. Very long winded but very good.
@@HolmbergarnSH high amperage low voltage it has alot of different characteristics, rod burns faster and puddle freezes faster. I've noticed the weld might not look as good or as smooth but posibily of porosity is way lower.
Yes exactly i saw the video of fieldres (check out his channel!!) and i finally understood the arcforce setting. Still havent played to much with it but managed to improve 6013 uphill welds with a higher arcforce ,a good test rod for that because of the liquid puddle, its way easier to go out of position with 7018
@@denniz122 i don't know if anybody really goes into detail about that on the tube like he dose. I'd found it to be useful to start at the lowest voltage the 7018 will handle, varies quite a bit on some machines, I know he can go all the way down to the carbon cutter setting on his vantage but no way I can on my old Hobart but tune it from there and work on that looking better because it certainly is a more sound weld.