You Should Try Underwater Combat (In Monster Hunter)
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Underwater combat is probably monster hunter's most divisive mechanic. Some love it and others hate it - but after revisiting the third generation recently, I really think you should go back and give it a Tri.
Article source:
Creating a Dense Open World: a lecture from Yuya Tokuda, the director for Monster Hunter: World: www.invengloba...
Growing up Plesioth was always my least favorite monster. Everytime that dumb fish lizard jumped into the pool I'd want to throw my PSP.
So when Tri came out with the mechanic of swimming, I actually reveled in it. I recall frequently saying "Come back here you piece of shit" out loud whenever a monster retreated underwater.
Chasing the monster to a place where it had an advantage just because you wanted to kill it that badly was both reckless and empowering, which is exactly the fantasy I am after when I play Monster Hunter.
Plesioth is actually a genuinely good fight underwater and it's probably the only monster that makes me feel relieved when it jumps back in to the sea.
Fr . I timed out several times because the Plesioth decided to go swimming instead of fight me. Having a monster try to peace out and being able to chase them into there own domain is chiefs kiss good. I love the insect glaive specifically because I can chase down a flying monster
I loved it. Underwater fighting was so terrifying. Lagiacrus in the deep ocean. The gobul in dark swampy waters. It was epic. I hope they try to reincorporate it.
After Tri, any game Lagiacrus is in, he feels like a total wimp unfortunately. I remember waiting and trying to bait it out of the water for so long in my first playthrough, haha.
Hey fellow Hunter have you seen the recent Monster Hunter Wilds Trailer Fingers crossed 🤞 hopefully I'll see you in the ocean my Fellow 3rd Fleet Hunter
@@evansstevenson1516 seriously!! We might have to add each other when it comes out.
@@JackboMack see you in 2025 my Fellow Hunter
Fighting underwater feels clunky because that is how it would feel to fight in water. It is something that the hunter should learn to adapt like anything else in the game. Besides, like the video shows, water combat show the true power of monsters like gobul or lagiacrus who are adapted the sea. When these monsters are on land, they are also clunky like the hunter in water because they are out of the element. Plus, there is nothing more fun than become a torpedo when using the charge attack with the lance on water. Great video and it is also great to see people who appreciate the uniqueness of the water combat in 3U.
It also creates some additional depth to combat and creates a dynamic relationship between Hunter and monster. The push and pull of combat evolving as you transition between water and land, each giving the advantage to either you or the monster.
I think amother thing I miss about Tri was how dark, gloomy, and gritty it could be. The villages were clearly impoverished and felt a little desolate. There was no steampunk or machinery. You were WEAK, and the jungle was dark. I think the maps themselves, lacking many human structures, also felt a bit alien, like you were not meant to be there. The rivers in Flooded Forest specifically especially evoke this feeling of being trapped with the monster.
I loved how that cave area in the Tundra was so dark it heavily incentivized actually grabbing the torch to light the other torches in the area so you could see anything. The torch in 3U was a joke, just creating an orange circle at your feet without even reflecting off the walls, must've been because of limitations from the 3DS version.
This is SO TRUE. I love the newer games, though. But this feeling of desolation and danger, both in visuals and gameplay...I don't think we will meet it again. Monster Hunter seems to go in another direction.
Underwater combat definitely had an intensity to it that was very memorable, and Monster Hunter 3 was already an intense game!
YES! To any newcomers to the series, I started with World and recently began playing through 3U. My first fight with Lagi in GU was extremely underwhelming, but after two carts and 47 minutes of hunting, he's become my favorite monster. When third fleeters say he was a different monster back then, they aren't kidding. Go play Tri/3U, emulation isn't all that hard!
Underwater adds a level of depth and mystique to the world of MH and its creatures that has yet to be replicated, only being brought down by old world control schemes. I think with a light touchup and proper weapon design, underwater will return to great success in MH6 as it would open up the world like nothing else can, and add a new frontier from which to spawn incredible marine animal designs. A recent interview showed that while Lagi is still causing problems for the team due to body composition and grounded contact points, they really want to bring him in very soon. Ryozo even stated that he was always meant to have the underwater component, acknowledging that while an effort was made, GU's version just isn't the same. Here's hoping for the return of underwater, and the true rival to the series flagship in MH6!
people like you i always wonder why did you start in world and not prior. personally world was my least played and least appealing so its odd how majority of players now came from that
@@lecommenter8528...maybe because World was many times more popular, and I'm a fairly new gamer? I don't mean to be rude, but this feels like a question with fairly obvious answers. I didn't have access to consoles when I was young, so free online games are what I grew up with, MHTri wasn't even in the ballpark of my mind as a kid.
I'll also say that beyond accessibility, World is still my favorite game in the MH series (and of all time). I think the ecological focus is absolutely unmatched, the combat is more grounded than Rise, GU or Frontier but still more fluid than in 4U, FU or 3U, Alatreon and Fatalis are my favorite fights in the series, etc etc. In spite of your misgivings, the game still appeals to other people.
@@prawn1717 i grew up sharing a happy meal with my mom and brother, 3 people eating one happy meal, at 16 i got a job and bought what i wanted then. Yes i played older mh games due to the funding of my fathers bday presents. But since you mentioned tri, tri came out in 2009, likewise you're atleast early 20s so assuming you decided to work (which growing up poor you would), it just didn't appeal to you for almost 10 years
@@lecommenter8528 Dude what?? I didn't ask for your life story lmao I legitimately DID NOT KNOW what Monster Hunter was until World.
@@lecommenter8528 Personally I didn't really play Nintendo consoles all that much even when I had them. They were just weaker systems to me(and in many ways still are) with silly gimmicks. So the for the majority of my time gaming, I didn't have the right system.
That being said, seeing the gameplay of previous games and now Rise, World is still definitely the best for me. Along with many other people. The gameplay is at it's most fluid with the least hitbox issues(yes even compared to Rise), the monsters feel the most alive and the world/atmosphere is it's best.
It was my favorite part of MH3U
I liked the underwater combat, the daunting feel of it with things like the lagiacrus and Gobul was awesome. And liking underwater combat or not, hearing the moga village theme gave me such nostalgia as Monster Hunter Tri was my first MH game, and I sunk many many hours I should have been doing homework into it.
I definitely agree with you that Rise pushes the balance too far in the hunter's favor. I doubt that wirebugs will return as they currently are in Rise, as they necessitate the creation of maps and monsters in a very specific way, so I'm not too worried about them coming back.
It's also important to try and see what World was attempting, in that it tried really hard to be a revival of the original design philosophy of MH1, which is that the game's about HUNTING. You gotta track the monster, use the environment to your advantage, deal with unexpected invasive species, etc. The very first World reveal really shows off what they had in mind, and it kind of felt like an in game replication of the 4U cinematics. In that regard I think World is a much bigger success than Rise
I definitely think underwater combat will make a return, it's just too cool of an idea to pass up, and all it needs is some minor tweaks. I think if you added wirebug movement to underwater sections, it'd be fantastic and fun to use. Imagine just dashing in any direction that you need to at the push of a button with some cooldowns or whatever.
Bruh, the reason mh rise is not as popular as world is because its on a switch.
And also rise is more like mhgu and both are good.
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 thats not entirely correct. A game can still sell extremely well on one console. If BOTW, Mario Odyssey and pokemon sword and shield can sell 20 million+ units on the switch alone, then rise could've sold that much if it really maintained that same level of hype.
Now, I'm not denying the fact that multiplatform games don't have an inherent advantage, but if a game released on one platform and the sales figures were low, clearly there wasn't as much interest or hype around it, especially in the case of the switch, which at this point has probably sold just as much as the ps4 or Xbox 1
@@WisdomAkpan211 but nintendo has a big audience in their own game console. But most of the mh community are from world.
I can only imagine the potential ambience of diving deep underwater in a game like world would be, i do have a bias for underwater themed content tho.
I was thinking about wirebugs underwater too. They could make underwater combat more dynamic, being helpless underwater by swimming slowly, you can use wirebugs to propell your self around as your primary form of avoiding damage, but with a cool down you aren't able to spam wirebug attacks or you'll be stuck in the water.
For being the first iteration I think they did a hell of a good job, I love it, since it was ny first game I thought all the games had underwater combat 😅, but I just had to adapt to the monster environment and for me it meant that it was their turn to have the advantage, the first MH game was clunky too but it kept evolving to where we are now, hopefully they can do the same for underwater combat and make it part of the franchise.
Great video, I left another comment that I still subscribe to, but you went in a different direction than I expected. While I fully advocate for MH6 to build on the foundations set by World, I do think that the extremely slow pace of Tri's underwater sections will still hold merit for me in spite of a smooth update in the new world. I think the sense of being out of your element will still carry over, but maybe not to the same extent. Then again, the old games are always there for me to play, so I won't lament World's design decisions as the new direction's ecological focus has me firmly in its grasp.
Nice pun in the description btw!
I never really disliked underwater combat. I felt it was just a necessity to the hunt. Going underwater to go after the monster is just part and parcel for the job of a Hunter. I mean, it won’t do to stop if you can’t pursue or drown.
Not to mention hunters hunting underwater has been a part of lore since the 2nd gen. The shipwright in MH Dos would sail around with a group of hunters, exclusively hunting underwater monsters. So it’s already a part of the world.
Besides, the potential for unique underwater biomes and monsters makes it worth it on their own.
MH tri was my first MH game. I loved the contrast between land and underwater combat. I had to learn both at the same time, compared to people that had played the series years back. So I guess in that sense it was better for me. I must have thought that's how the game played always. There's never been a change in gameplay has big as underwater combat in my opinion. Some battles shine underwater, while on land it's lackluster (Lagiacrus, for example).
I really hope it comes back someday.
I genuinely never had a problem with underwater combat. I started with mh3u and used gunlance. I did feel slow movement in the water but I just let that up to the fact that water makes you slow in every game. The combat always felt right to me because brain said "me land mammal fighting fish why would I have the advantage." I haven't played mh until rise and I still miss the water. I wish to panic underwater in a fight because I'm drowning next to big zap lizard again
"why do i need to pay attention to the monster when i can counter everything they do?" i dont think you understand how counters actually work m8
Dang, seeing that Plesi brings back memories of 15 year old me raging at the psp yelling what the fuck is hipcheck shit. Good times.
I got 3U a while back, and I must say, the underwater combat felt a lot smoother than I expected, aside from some jankiness from not having a circle pad pro. Would love to see an updated and refined version of it.
Agreed very much. I also take this perspective/approach/framework to "seemingly unfair" situations in games. It's there for the roleplay elements. It's there to make you feel powerless. It's there not as something to be engaged with in a "fair experience".
It's as your analogy shows: if you face a crocodile on land, you may sneer at it in condescension, and playfully place your foot on top of its snout- but as soon as you enter the water with it, you are no longer in your domain as a human; you have entered the domain of the crocodile; and if you do not absolutely know how to deal with that, then you should be filled with terror as it nabs your arm and rolls it out of its socket, skin tearing, and blood gushing. You thought you were the predator, but you were in over your head (in this case, underwater).
Also, I JUST WANT TO SEE MY LAGIACRUS, damnit. Please Capcom, Please. Lagiacrus.
I wouldn't even put the majority of the blame on Wii U and 3DS for the controls of Underwater Combat. It was simply mimicking the control style as we knew it of Old Style Hunting Pre World and Rise. Had it been modernized up along with those game's changes to the gameplay, things would be different. Just like if Underwater Combat debuted in MH1 with its further outdated controls rather than Tri. I think if they brought it back, they would improve what worked, and revamp what didn't.
Water combat should come back and I hope it is still clunky. Throw a punch underwater, Even in real life it is clunky. Mike tyson on land can knock my ass out. Under water his punch just wouldnt be the same
Maybe I’m weird but I just started playing Tri a couple days ago, and I actually love the underwater combat. Yes it’s clunky, but I’m having tons of fun. Something about watching my hunter swim and attack underwater makes me excited
I would love if they added water combat to Monster Hunter 6 (if they don't plan on adding it in an update in Sunbreak) to have the best of both worlds in terms of power fantasy and slow terror. I've never played the older slower games, as I started with world, but I feel that it could be really good to have the less powerful feeling combat underwater alongside the "fighting with reckless abandon" type combat that the newer games have. At least I can get the same feeling of being nearly carted because I get too greedy with sword form swaxe....
Underwater map with all kinds of biomes, intractable endemic creatures, monsters and choice of playable race i hope they throw in seafolk for underwater breathing but dehydration stats. If we can finally see tetradon bioluminescence glow. Namielle vs abyss lagiacrus . ceadeus vs nakarkos ecology interaction based on crown size since it hunts baby ceadeus
I really hope they will bring back underwater combat. Just because it wasn't perfect in the old game people act like it will never be good.
We have so much better hardware and engines now and contorls are already way smoother than in previous games. They could easily pull it off nowadays and make it feel and look great.
My only problem with underwater is the dogshit dodge. If they made the dodge still act like land dodging I’d love it.
Why You Shouldn't Try Underwater Combat:
-it's bad
Great video, but quick question: What are you using to emulate the game and how are you making it look so good?
The water combat was amazing
My first Monster Hunter game was Tri. The underwater combat is partially why I started to use the Lance, which I have continued to main to this day.
The thing is, in Tri, there were no Hunting Horns, Gunlances, dual swords, or bows. Insect Glaive and Charge Blade also would not be introduced until to 4.
So that left players with S&S, GS, Hammer, Lance, Bowguns, SA, and LS.
And the thing is, you could not gain access to Switch Axe or Long Sword until 3 star quests and 5 star quests respectively. So by that time, players have probably already found a weapon type they enjoyed using, and aren't as likely to switch. Also should mention that I didn't say light bowgun or heavy bow gun, because Tri had a really weird system where you had to build bowguns piece by piece, and they didn't necessarily have a guaranteed weight, and imo, it was really not easy to learn for newcomers, not helping that Bowguns before World required players to wear different armors that were half as defensive as melee armors, and also had a very unconventional control scheme.
So basically that left new players with S&S, GS, Hammer, and Lance.
And of those 4, Lance had by far the easiest moveset that translated to underwater fights, because as was said in the video, underwater fights in Monster Hunter are inherently more defensive, and the lance is easily the most defensive Monster Hunter weapon.
i loved the idea of modularity they tried with bowguns in tri though
it was really cool, i stil wonder why they left it die in only one game
@@robertomacetti7069 I think that
A. It was probably a nightmare to balance those
And B. The more customization means more time potentially between hunts.
Like I don't think those are necessarily a problem for the Players as a whole, but I definitely could see devs finding it was too much hassle and scrapped it.
I find that happens a lot in games, one game in a series will introduce a slightly complicated yet underdeveloped mechanic. It's not that it was bad or poorly received, but it can just be that feature creep sets in, and a side mechanic becomes too in depth for the game.
I'm trying to think of specific examples but the best I can think of right now is why the Ice Climbers were cut from Smash 4. They weren't the most popular characters, and they kept giving the devs issues on the 3ds version.
Edit: sorry for the length, I once worked on an indie game that ended up never being released, so from my own experience and from others I've heard, this is often why features get cut.
@@CrocvsGator yes, that absolutely makes sense
is a shame though
especially now that we have layered armor/weapons it would be great i believe
Tri was actually my first Monster Hunter experience. Back as a 12 year old Lagiacrus (which is my fave monster in the franchise) scared the absolute shit outta me seeing it for the first time in the ocean off the coast of the Deserted Isle. If they brought it back, it could work really well, especially with skills that would make it easier to hunt underwater (in the form of deco skills or even food skills). I think if they were to do it that way, it could make the experience a lot more manageable and then customizable and interesting for each player, if they decided upon how to approach their skillset and each underwater fight.
I think underwater combat is so rad. I def want to see it brought back but....how would they do it? Like....how would you play insect glaive for instance? Really curious to see if they could pull it off.
Probably the same way Bowguns are handled. The insect would have less range, but would overall handle pretty similarly.
Obviously your range of movement would be greatly effected, unless the glaive could somehow propel you underwater.
Another chad video essayist, let’s go
Every Tribabby always says shit like this without thinking about how game development works. Why do you think underwater never returned? Because it's a huge resource sink in terms of development. They are essentially developing two games at the same time, but with one having a much bigger role than the other (land combat being much much more important than water combat), so in the end, why bother? Tri had a miniscule monster and weapon roster, and 3U had a lot less monsters compared to what came after (and it didn't completely fail in this regard just because they also used the monsters made by the portable team). Stop trying to convince people that this shit is feasable, especially with how long dev cycles have become.
Wow, I haven’t seen “Tribaby” since Tri *released* lmao. Did you just arrive from 2010?
Just relax, at the end of the day it’s up to the devs anyway. Us discussing it is just that - discussing it.
Apparently underwater combat was actually planned to come back in World but ended up not being included due to the workload, so clearly the devs see the value in it. Either way, there’s no reason to be so upset about it.
Tbh I never understood why Underwater combat was so hated, monsters like Lagiacrus, plesioth, and Gobul were made for underwater combat, don't get me wrong, hell even royal ludroth had more moves in the water than on land, Lagia is still fun in Gen and GU but it doesn't feel the same as when I fought him in Mh3u. Underwater combat showed its true power, Lagiacrus is a legit sea monster adapted to living and surviving in oceanic and river environments, when you fight Lagiacrus in Mh3u, you are forced to adapt to a change in combat, you are out of your element here where the water based monsters were at their strongest. Underwater combat also allowed for unique monsters like Cedaeus, Gobul, and Dire Miralis to make their first appearances and it showed off the true power of monsters like Lagiacrus adding intensity to the fights.
3dlet. their brain cannot wrap throught 3d movement
My favorite feeling of all time after playing Freedom Unite for so long when going to tri was finally being able to follow after those damn Plesioth and kill them in their home environment instead of waiting to use frogs.
Plesioth was only introduced in 3U, but totally agree with the energy / feeling 💪
@@maximillionpegasus5160 to help you get further in life, when people mention the base game they're generally referring to all of it even the grank part. a lot of people saying world referring to iceborne
yessir, thank you for the video, I enjoy your monster hunter videos and am hoping to see more in the future
Fascinating that underwater combat almost made it into World...honestly, I kind of feel like they could adapt the wirebugs of Rise into a new version of underwater combat. They feel way TOO empowering on land, but underwater, a grappling hook or water jet system might be just the thing to add a bit more mobility into combat without necessarily compromising the feeling of being, well, underwater. I hope they take another crack at it either way - there's too much cool potential underneath the waves.
I never hated the underwater combat in 3/3G. It was varied, the underwater monsters utilize their environments realistically, and fights like gobul or ceadus are unlike anything else
I started with 3 Ultimate and It was such a legendary game to me every time I listen to OST I shed a tear
clicked the video and immediately went "damn I love your videos'' its been FOREVERRR since a YT channel made me feel like this. editing sound , pacing top notch and always fresh intertesting topics
Im in the camp of people who hate it. I recently quit 3U completely today, the 3DS controls dont help the clunkiness (even on the new 3DS XL), if it were to come to switch i would give it another go because the controls alone would be more comfortable
The community of the mainline games simply does not like a good challenge, ask them to play Frontier and their immediate counterpoint is “Every monster one-shots you in the endgame, thats no fun” without looking at what the game offers you aside from that challenge, which is one of the most fun MH combat to date, two new weapons, extremely varied roster of monsters and variations and no doubt the best music in the entire franchise.
Started out with monster hunter Tri. Got to say, favorite soundtrack out of all of them. At first, underwater combat felt slow, unfair even. But you know what? It made me try new weapons/skills. Evading every attack was out of the question, and suddenly the importance of having a shield became evident. It's no wonder so many people gravitated towards the lance in this game. Never a lance person myself but I totally see why.
Underwater fighting was one of my favorite parts of Tri and 3U. And with the introductions of things like clutch claws and wirebugs, insect glaive thrusters, etc. mobility can easily be addressed.
You are the greatest content creator I've come across in quite sometime, played monster hunter as a kid on my psp but it was your analysis on mhgu and its last boss that brought me back to it, not to mention I've started mh3u as well because of the passion you pour into these videos and the points you effortlessly make. If it wasn't for the perspective you utilize whilst looking at old renditions of different media I don't think I'd have even gotten back into what I consider one of my favorite game series. Please keep being goated and consider a freedom unite retrospective I feel that game is the most immersive of them all.
Seems like one of the more interesting gimmicks. Was it intended to be a gimmick though? Or was it meant to be a permanent addition to the series?
The games didn’t really do one off gimmicks back then. So it was probably meant to be permanent.
For example, 4U’s “gimmick” was mounting and overhauled climbing/traversal. 2nd gen’s “gimmick” was Palicos. All of which stayed in the series permanently.
@@CaptainEffort hopefully they don’t get rid of wirebugs next gen
@@andreworders7305 Eh, I’d be okay with it. I want to feel like a hunter, not Spider-Man, you know? But I understand where you’re coming from.
I just wanna explore and fight in underwater area's again. The feeling was magical for me back in Tri. Sure adapting to the challenge was tough, but by the time I was consistently defeating Lagiacrus, I felt like a sea-serpent slaying badass.
Tri was my entry into the series and without the fun hybrid hunts like Lagiacrus and Gobul I don't think I'd have gotten as into the series if it wasn't there. The omni-directional movement, huge breath gauge and complete change to how you tackle monsters during the underwater sections made it super appealing to me as a new player.
It was especially amazing when I got to the Caedeus fight I was left speechless. Then I got 3U and finally got to play multiplayer which just sold me on the franchise as a whole. I need to play FU at some point and am currently going through GenU. World is my favourite mechanically with all the QoL changes it brought and how it just throws you into the hunting without a tier and a half of boring mandatory gathering/small monster quests.
The one thing that I don't like is how most people just chase metas and build WE, Attack, Crit Eye ASAP sucking a lot of the hunting element out of the game as they blend each monster into puree within 4 minutes every hunt. I can enjoy hunting more methodically in solo play, but since World and Rise have simply fused the two that becomes harder to engage with as friends always badger me to play with them.
I wonder if having a scooter monster like the palamute could work, like imagine latching onto a Ludroth
On a completely different note, I would like to share a random fun fact regarding the lore that I find so d*mn hilarious: Normally, issued quests are up for taking for any hunter qualified for it. But when a quest specifically mentions a threat underwater, the only eligible and requested hunters are only those from Moga. (Which is the village feature in Tri and MH3U) If you can't tell, they are the only ones capable of taking on threats underwater due to obvious reasons. 🤣
Just found your channel, all of your videos are awesome. Personally I loved underwater combat but only in specific parts. That is, I liked Lagiacrus, and all of the fights in the swamp area. While I love Ceadeus's design I didn't enjoy the fight much. Too much time spent swimming around desperately chasing the monster. In the swamp, the areas are small enough that it isn't as much of a problem, and with Lagiacrus he'll come to fight you.
Bruh I’ve only played MH3U on 3ds AND I main the HH ,underwater is pretty ez not gunna lie , movement is lacking but that’s too be expected underwater
I've played nearly every Monster Hunter to the end; or a minimum of 2/3 before slowly distancing. Yet which Monster Hunter have I returned to even more than emulated 1 for lols or World on my heavily preferred, more valuable than my car, PC setup? 3U, I keep my 3Ds XL & joystick accessory with me after all these years with Monster Hunter 3U almost always in it. Only to be swapped for occasional retro desires. Underwater combat is easily my most desired mechanic to return in Monster Hunter.
I enjoyed the verticallity in Rise and World but also enjoyed the water combat from Tri it was different and enjoyable change from land combat. I do want it to come back and maybe bring back some combat in a different way.
i've been playing mh3u with sns only recently (it's my favorite weapon but it's very hard to stick with when everyone including you says it UW lol), and i'm realizng that while it loses like, half it's combo, what it gains is a lot of vertical mobility mid combo. at any point in a combo you can hold down and A/X+A and send yourself downward, possibly avoiding attacks or repositioning for your next combo. you can also send yourself up with the finisher after the shield bash (which actually combos into the downward finisher, which is neat)
4:50 It's called Monster _Hunter,_ not monster fighter.
You're not only fighting monsters, you're hunting them.
they considered underwater combat in MHW? never heard that, i knew they tried lagiacrus but not that they wanted to give that whole system another go. i agree that 3rd gen underwater combat is clunky but MHW made everything more fluid anyway so i can't wait for them to try it again with that level of improvement. there is just so much for inspiration to make semi or fully aquatic monsters based on sea creatures of our own world. there were even 2 unused ideas in lore/concept art, or maybe 3, for deep sea monsters. the 2 i know of are that gobuls you fight in MH3 are babies of the species while the adults are massive maybe siege fight sized monsters in the deep sea. the other was a concept art for a massive snake shaped piscine wyvern. games of old did have shit movement and sub par level design for underwater segments but games as early as the classic trio of Ratchet & Clank games of that time could have great underwater movement controls but it had no combat underwater. you can't 1 to 1 those controls but it's proof of devs getting the movement right as early as 2002, 2 years before MH1. i expect and hope that the 6th gen will be more like MHW than Rise but also think they will change relatively little. this is do to the tendency is for odd gens to take risks while even numbered ones just build on what worked for the last risk. 4th gen ditchied underwater entirely because it devided the player base. before discovering this pattern, i had hoped that 6th gen (double 3rd) would revisit underwater combat but now i'm not so sure it's likely do to this trend. 7th gen is very likely for it though, if they already wanted it in MHW. i love the idea that camera angle influenced attacks' direction so any attack can have alternate angles to hit a monster based on the camera. it was a cool idea, just make it more fluid and i'll love it. there is a balance, many felt that Rise was too fast paced, preferring MHW's balance of it. i still enjoy Rise but i do prefer MHW's flow and see the argument of people saying SB is a Monster Hunter/DMC love child.
I didn't know about the fact underwater combat was so close to coming to world. Damn, imagine if they put all that work in underwater combat instead of Zorah, that would of been a year for them. That being said I was still of the mind they were going to add in MH6 for one sole reason.
The devs stated they were not going to add Lagi to Sunbreak/Rise specifically because they don't think his potential is really being met in a game without it. Now Lagi is one of the most popular monsters in the series, they know this. So that means one of two things.
Either they are shelfing one of their most popular assets for the foreseeable future. Or they are saving him and the hype he'll bring for the return of underwater combat, that statement being a hint it's coming back for sure.
Now I'm going to go against my nature and be optimistic and say that means we're very likely to get it in 6. I just don't see them harming their money making in anyway over something they don't plan on doing anything about for an unknown amount of time. And you stating that they already tried putting the system in world, only solidifies my prediction that it will be in MH6.
Would be fun to use cabinsect underwater like we use them on mh rise
I wish i could play mh3u again just to play underwater again to see if it really was that bad but sadly my Wii u and by extension my copy of mh3u was lost in a flood.
I love all the mh games but man i wish the next big one is gonna be like world mixed with a Little bit of Rise/Sunbreak and older games
never complain bout water combat in 3u
if they ever make underwater combat a thing again i would hope its the same as tri if its not its a failure in my eyes
Nah I enjoy not having cramps
To this day I hope that it makes a return
I'll try to get 3U if I can.
Love the videos - keep up the work boss
Implementing underwater combat in MH with the Scale of the world is like making 2 games.. People are underestimating how difficult it is to make underwater combat work in a game development stand-point and player interaction pov..
Hence you will not see any games that have such robust under-water combat...
We’ll see. Apparently underwater combat was going to be in world, but due to the massive workload of having to rebuild every monster they ended up not going through with it.
But that means that the devs still see the value in it and want to include it.
Wait im at the start of the video someone tell me! Which games had underwater combat? I only played world and plan on getting rise and hell i was a kid with no money to buy the old games
Only the 3rd generation, Tri and 3 Ultimate on the Wii and Wii U, minus Portable 3rd on the PSP.
I only played MH Tri on the Wii, and since I didn't have a controller, I exclusively used the motion controls. This put underwater combat on a level of difficulty that could be straight up painful. However, it changed my mindset on the outcome of a hunt. Instead of being fairly confident that I would succeed, victory wasn't always guaranteed. Underwater battles felt like I was fighting for my life against a powerful leviathan, and I loved that. In all my MH experiences, the hunts where I fought tooth and nail with a vicious beast and barely won were always the most memorable for me. I hope that it returns eventually with smoother and more developed controls.
disclaimer: third fleeter here, started with tri, i'm 500% bias
yep, i miss underwater combat, 3u is my favorite game still today (even though i don't consider it the best at all for a long list of reason)
i really had a good time with underwater combat, and i didn't feel that limited in my moves, sure, you may lack some attacks depending on the weapon, but you gain upward and downward movement
suddently breaking that pesky back is a cake walk, with a bit of practice you can easily still go to town on every part of the monster, also, third gen leviathans introduced in tri are clearly designed with their underwater phase in mind, look at poor royal ludroth, stranded on hearth is as dangerous as a bag of potatoes, i swear in back tri he was scary af the first 2/3 times, as soon as it touches the water he become like twice as fast, and cannot run out of stamina (since its "stamina" is how wet the sponge is)
i also swear he was bigger, going from qurupeco and great jaggi to him was like "how the heck i'm supposed to kill that thing"
underwater combat was an amazing experience, despite the clunky controls, i recommend everyone who can to give it a try
also, the ceadeus, quite a lackluster fight actually, but goddamn, i can hunt 20 ot those guys in a raw before getting bored, what a spectacle it is... and it also got my favorite ost so that totally helps
Ceadeus will forever remain my favourite elder dragon of the Monster Hunter series and one of my favourite bosses in video games as a whole specifically because it emphasizes the underwater combat aspect of the game to generate a very tangible sense that you aren't in your element here - you are in Ceadeus' domain. In a very literal reversal of the fish-out-of-water scenario, you're locked underwater, in a vulnerable, disempowered state, treading into the metaphorical throne room of a creature who's name translates directly to "Sea God". The immensity of its being, coupled with the narrative and thematic framing of the situation, pits you against an oceanic colossus in a last-ditch effort to drive it away (not even slay it) from a village about to be swallowed by the sea, with this near-unfathomable entity as its cause. The swelling music, its deep booming roars and your guarded, desperate efforts to vanquish the beast whilst submerged hundreds of feet under the waves within the ruins of a civilization that also sunk into the abyss in the ancient past impose a tangible, heavy atmosphere of dread and excitement in equal measure that, for me, has never been matched since.
If Capcom one day brings back underwater combat and, as a reference to Tri, recreates the Ceadeus fight and Moonquake starts to play, I might actually cry. I can only hope to see it again.
maybe, and I hope the playstyle will change in rise sunbreak with the harder difficulity.
Tri was 3rd MH, and honestly I only found out years later that people didn’t like underwater combat. Never had an issue with it and always found it really alluring that we could explore all of the maps
I am somewhat in the middle in my enjoyment of the 3rd gen's underwater combat. In my own opinion two things need to be done to fix underwater combat.
1. Better evasion. Evading was badly limited underwater and for me a G-rank Lagiacrus was a nightmare for which I had to take a Lance when going against just because of one move it has underwater: its double hip check/body slam. Fighting the smaller Leviathans and Plesioth underwater was fun for me.
We had the Slinger and we now have Wirebugs so if in a future title if underwater combat returns we should get some sort of device that uses air to propel our character in the water to aid in evading. It would be invaluable in fighting aquatic monsters as large or bigger than a Lagiacrus and would be great in escaping smaller monsters in an emergency situation like having low health and putting distance between you and it. It would also be limited resource and you would need to fill it up with air by either returning to surface or making use bubbles.
Though I can imagine Insect Glaive users could make use some special aquatic Kinsects to help propel the hunter in the water.
2. Ranged weapons attacks were also not that good underwater. Water is denser than air but they don't really need to nerf their range that much. They should give ranged weapons special ammunitions that can be used underwater that can at least be used at a respectable distance without too much drop off. For example maybe bows could fire harpoon like spears
I will always appreciate the water combat in 3U for one major reason.
It is the reason I decided to learn lance and now it's one of my favorite weapons in the series. Having to adapt to the very different feel of water helped me open up my weapon library.
I started with mh Tri, so yeah I have some experience with it and it was pretty cool, especially with the lance which was extremely powerful underwater. The sns however, was terrible underwater. Balance was not so great back then haha
I genuinely love the idea of fighting in water, I wish I'd started with 3u, but it's next on my list after gu. I'm genuinely hoping that it makes a return in the future with some serious polish put behind it this time
I played mostly lance and Hammer in Tri so I had some funny mobility options under water with the spin and charge. If they let weapons incorporate their movesets into the game like that then I know it would be well received.
Hi
i have to agree at least partly with you. I recently went back and did all of the village quests and had a lot more fun than i thought i would as i had a lot of bad memories about underwater combat but it turned out to be not that bad.
Gosh, I love Gobul
I started at Tri, so I have a soft spot for the underwater mechanics.
I’m currently playing through 3U for the first time on the 3ds. I feel like my experience with underwater combat would be better if I could move my character and the camera (aside from the lock on camera) at the same time. If I had a Wii U and had access to a second analog stick it’d probably be more enjoyable, but I also don’t want to buy a new system for one game.
Get 3U on Cemu Emulator on your PC and play the game at 1080p 60fps with a ps4 controller. It's also not hard to setup :)
Every time i hear someone complain about the underwater combat all i hear is "Im bad at the game and instead of learning and adapting to the game shift ill just complain and say that it sucks" lol
what in the world are you talking about, you actual goddamn troglodyte
if someone points out the obvious flaws of questionable game design choices then that must mean they're just bad at the game!!! you monster hunter fans have the most brainless takes to the point it makes souls fans look normal gtfo
@@fa_peacock That's how you look at it but I don't. Yes it was clunky and the camera wasn't the best. But Monster Hunter is a clunky game but those that gave it a chance saw the potential in it. Or are you gonna tell me that MH 1 was a smooth and not at all clunky game.
The underwater combat has problems we all know that. But it wasn't as bad as people made out to be and im tired of people saying otherwise because they saw that it was a bit harder to hit the monster
i knew i wasnt crazy when i felt like i was way too strong compared to the monsters in Rise, basically breezed through the low rank storyline in a couple of days, hopefully High Rank is different
That water combat looks so atmospheric and cool holy hell
Going out of the water and into the lagiacrus lair was a truly cinematic moment
Personally rise looks like it would be fun for an hour or so but then I’d want to put it down. I really like the way world feels like I’m invading their natural habitat and how the creatures don’t attack me unless I initiate a fight. Great vid
I think totally the same as most of your opinion.
I want hunter action to be smooth, but not too flexible. In rise you basically can do every action. flying into the air, getting hit and get up immediately. it makes most of the attacks harmless, which is very boring.
World team already had such a battle-tested game production experience, I truly believe they will make a better Water combat experience hahaha.
There's still a lot of time till 2024, when MH6 is so likely to be released on PS5. I think they can polish the game very well. So it won't be that unpolished and uncompleted like Rise
i really agree with rise being too easy as a entry for monster hunter entry. even world and iceborne still gave me some challenge. it feels like the hunter too overpowered and so little of exploration needed to the point it becomes boring to me. i know that rise probably made to be compact monster hunter so you can play it on the go, but still, there's no challenge. that's the only reason I skip sunbreak.
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