I'm pretty sure Dan Savage is my favorite person on earth at the moment! And as a 100% straight female, I think he is sexy as hell! Amazing speech! I've always thought of swinging as horrible and could never even imagine partaking in such an activity, but after watching that, it makes total sense! So smart!
I'm just going to say that, if one needs to sleep with others in order to keep their current marriage in tact, then their current marriage is doomed to begin with. An no, cheating 3 or 4 times doesn't make someone "good at monogamy". Just like striking a child only 3 or 4 times doesn't make someone good at parenting.
Humans are constantly evolving. Most of the world accepts the idea of monogamy today and if we continue to believe in this idea of suppressing out instincts be monogamous, in a million years it would be much easier to be monogamous. I think that's the reason why it's SO extremely hard to be monogamous. Our animalistic instincts are still too strong. Give it a million years and imagine a world where monogamy is easily achieved.
I don't think one can say humans are naturally promiscuous or monogamous, but I will say this: I hope that monogamy as the default dies off. At the beginning of any relationship it should be an open question, but there are still what seems like a majority of people who think it is the only way to go. If you want to be with one person for your entire life (or at least relationship), that's fine. But you shouldn't force or expect anyone else to live that way.
I think that humans have both within them actually contrasting as that sounds we instictively want one solid life partner and yet we want to spread our genes
*alchemist89* Darling, no one who's in a relationship is in the position of "forcing" or "expecting" anyone to be monogamous since that requirement is the very foundation of such kind of relationship, so much so that there is never even a discussion about it at any point of the relationship (unless one of the two is caught being unfaithful). On the other hand, if a person feels "forced" to be in a monogamous relationship, then it is he/she who is displaying a dysfunctional desire to cheat, or to be a promiscuous slut, or a sex addict, or a mentally or emotionally unstable person.
Answering your question... because, as I said, jealousy is natural. Pair bonding is also natural. Not pure monogamy. Monogamy would be natural if you were completely and naturally turned off towards other people when you're with someone, and that's not the case, in most cases.
@owlcu Exactly. I have no problem with polyamory or polygamy, as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. Why is it so difficult for some people.
I would even go a bit far and say that it's hard for an individual, male or female, to understand another one's sexual impulse, being that no two individuals are exactly the same. That's why honesty and communication are fundamental in a relationship. When things are taken for granted, failure will inevitably come.
I'm sorry Dan. I completely disagree. Is it true that we are not wired to be monogamous? perhaps. But at the end of the day people like to know they have someone who considers them special. I can have the desire to go sleep with a thousand guys, but at the end of the day I only choose to do it with the one I care about. Sex is sex true, but what value does the sex with my significant other have when all I do is go have sex with a thousand other men? None. It hurts to know that someone you love is seeking intimacy from someone else. It makes you feel like there is something you lack within yourself, when in fact this could be nothing further from the truth. Your advice may work for some, but for most people this is far fetched. Also do you really think polygamy is safe? we have so many STDs running in our community and its because of the very fact that people do this. Honestly Dan, there are many things I could forgive a partner for, but infidelity is NOT one of them.
Why a thousand? That's kind of absurd. I doubt anyone in this world even has the time to have sex with that many people. What if a couple has sex with 2 other partners for the duration of the relationship? Does that make the couple promiscuous? This is about swinging, which is something couples decide to do to whatever extent they want, together. Polyamory is not infidelity, and monogamy does NOT guarantee safety from STIs. You can be monogamous for years and still become infected by a careless encounter, whether the encounter happens with you or with someone else.
I think the thousand number was more to illustrate through exaggeration than anything. My view though, is that two is just as bad. Not that people can't agree on what kind of relationship they want to have. Mono, poly, swinging, whatever... But there's no way in hell that even one extramarital partner would be acceptable in my marriage. And it's not about STSs or pregnancy. Those can be avoided. I just get tired of being told that monogamy is "unnatural". It's insulting & incorrect. I don't think that there's any one specific wiring for everyone. Just like some people are gay, some are straight, some are bi, and more. Why is one natural, and the other one isn't?
@@MiaStar RE: _"monogamy does NOT guarantee safety from STIs. You can be monogamous for years and still become infected by a careless encounter, whether the encounter happens with you or with someone else."_ *You make no sense. To be **_monogamous_** means to have no sexual encounter whatsoever outside of a relationship or marriage. Therefore your statement is in full self-contradiction.* *Also, if a person is getting into a poly-amorous situation, he/she is more likely to have promiscuous sexual encounters with other partners outside the already warped 'threesome' relationship. The statistics are very clear on this subject.*
@@ctf3414 RE: _"Why is one natural, and the other one isn't?"_ Because this society has gotten sick to the point of telling us that if I believe to be a woman, then I _am_ a woman; and that others _must_ accept this fact even if what's found between my legs is a penis. You still refuse to sleep with me because you say I'm a _man?!_ Then you're _transphobic!_
Only a gay guy get's to be this honest; a hetereosexual male is too caught up in preserving this illusion that they are somehow different from most guys. This is often a selling point in courtship. I think monogamy makes more sense to those with less testosterone, but having never been a woman, I could be wrong.
I'm confused...I know he's somewhat recently said on Bill Maher that he's been married for almost 20 years, and yet here he only says he's in a non monogamous relationship with a boyfriend...what?
I do want to point out that I'm not hating, I love Dan Savage! haha, juuuuust wanted to be clear that it's a serious question and I'm truly just confused.
I know this video is older, but still if he's been married for 20 years, then it's still weird to hear him say he just "has a boyfriend" and they're "not monogamous". lol the language just confuses me I guess.
+evand2 I think he means he is not monogamous in the way that he occasionally has sexual experiences with other people but he comes home to his boyfriend and only has a true relationship with his boyfriend
wow dan savage is a psychopath for believing you've been faithful to your spouse if you've only cheated on him or her "only" 4 times!!! how anyone can take dan seriously is beyond me and he makes a living giving this idiotic advice.
I think each relationship is unique, as it is made up of unique individuals. When two personalities mix, mutual agreement is hardly the issue - compromise becomes the essential glue that cements them together. My belief is irrelevant to another relationship. Yes - Dan is certainly courageous.
it is NORMAL IT IS HUMAN to feel attracted to more than just one person and to feel like acting upon it (even when you choose not to) because that is in our DNA thats whats is really the very definition of attraction the desire to have sex with someone else doesnt make you abnormal it makes you human you are NOT mentally or emotionally unstable or abnormal because you feel attracted to someone else besides your spouse a survey has revealed that 74% of men and 68% of women would have sex with someone else if it were guaranteed that their spouse would not find out !!! it is normal, human to feel, to desire , to want connection, even when you dont , thats what makes us human to want connection emotionally, sexually or spiritually
I can’t agree with Dan but I respect his opinion. True, many are not made for monogamy and I would never judge another’s choices. But to “beg” a partner who wants to be monogamous is sad and selfish. Your decision needed to be made in the beginning of the relationship. I’m a gay man who actually wanted an open relationship but it broke my fiancés heart, so I decided to stay monogamous. Love should always come before sex.
I agree that this is the case, I was merely stating that monogamy, like poly, is not for everyone. There is also a strong correlation between vassopressin receptor mutation and polyamorous behaviour in humans, giving the indication that some people are biologically geared towards monogamy, some polygamy, and some polyamoury/swinging/open relationships. In short- do what works for you and find someone who wants to do it with you that way! :).
I strongly believe in monogamy - but it's not for everyone. Swinging, cheating (whatever) ultimately leads to feelings of inadequacy as the couple ages. Placing value only on the physical, is always a mistake. I have no problems being faithful to my partner, but if he were ever to cheat on me, I would certainly deal with it in a level-headed way.
YOU r nothing more than common beast. But, I am not. I am a conscious complex spiritual being & I plan on committing my heart, my mind, my body, my soul and my spirit to the person i want to spend the rest of my life with Our moment of coming together will be a sacred reminder of our special bond that no one on earth but us can share. Lovemaking will always be a physical representation of our deep feeling for one another & of the union we established at the alter before god & our loved ones.
Hello, I was trained in evolutionary biology at a US university. I'd like to address a few things that you were referring to as "normal." Monogamy is actually seen in nature. It is uncommon, but it is more common than homosexuality. This brings me to my next point. Homosexuals, individuals that have chosen to base their (potentially alienating) lives/lifestyles around their sexual beliefs, operate from unique biological angle. #1 They don't have reproductive bottlenecks, and 2# (continued...)
And this is where I and Dan Savage part company. From Edward Carpenter through Bertrand Russell et al the idea that open relationships can be of benefit to people has been shown to be a harmful lie. One or other person gets hurt and in a post AIDS world when this kind of sexual socialism was clearly a mitigating factor in its initial spread, I'm not sure whether this kind of advice is either useful or even relevant. The gay community learned a hard lesson in the 80's. We musn't do so again.
@Lilja124 According to human nature? What is human nature? That's a broad statement. In my opinion, human nature is anything that humans wants to do. So if someone wants to be in a monogamous relationship, that's human nature. If someone wants to be in an open relationship, that is human nature. Human nature comprises of ALL human behavior (in my opinion).
Commitment to monogamy for a lifetime doesn't have to mean being jailed, bored, etc. However, that assumes an uninhibited, spontaneous, open to experimentation partner: unfortunately, a rare find. The usual is the same sex sequence on the same day, at the same time, with the same practices, SHOOT ME.
some people then think boring not everyone though People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others and their told either not to feel like that or not to feel at all which leads to secret desires that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years or so , may be some people can who knows An insight into the mind of the gemini : I am a gemini and a gemini does not like feeling caged it doesn't mean you have any unfaithful intentions and you may like your life with your loving partner but as soon as a gemini even because of your attitude or by what is expected from him feels unfree he or she wants to be away from you if you don;t want someone to want be away from you and maybe like to be among anyone else you can of course lure that person in your direction make him want to be with you !!! that makes it his choice !!!!
People are very judgemental and unforgiving even in the case of an occasional one night stand people's mindset : if you really love me you would not have done such a thing many people would not even dream of saying or suggesting things out loud people might make you look immoral or untrustworthy and your partner may dump you so that leaves no room for openness and honesty because that has consequences : if you cheat even the once you are not to be trusted your yesterday's news we are finished or I want a divorce people are not willing to want to show or share that part of themselves that feels desire attraction to anyone else I think it was Oscar Wilde who said people can be honest with a mask on in other words other wise they don't show you their real intentions or personality , because you will be judged upon it you have to in public conform with the opinions of the masses and not stick your neck out whether it is about sex politics or religion people keep certain opinions to themselves in fear of public judgement or humiliation or ridicule and that is why people LIE
I'm in a poly relationship and let me say its an incredibly hurtful thing to agree to a monogamous relationship and then change the rules and want to open it. You CANNOT and SHOULD NOT expect your partner to be okay with that.
it's not that you can't or shouldn't. It's you accept if they aren't ok with it. People change. People make self realizations. Life and Time tend to do that. The sad reality is, if you dont want to throw away a long term relationship you have to be open with your partner about your needs and how they, and you, are changing. even if it hurts them to hear it. if its important enough to bring it up, if it's important enough that it could fracture the relationship. it must be addressed. either way. the relationship is gonna end, or continue.
@velocity246 I agree. I know from experience some people can't be monogamous, no matter how much they love you. But that doesn't mean monogamy is despair. For me, truly being in love means that there is no one else that I want, just that one person. I am not against monogamy though. Some people can find love that way, it's just not for me.
People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years for example may be some people can who knows but I think that deep down a lot of people are let's call it cheating curious but they don't want anyone to know that that is what they are really thinking they feel attracted to someone else and even when they have faithful intentions the person that they may fancy might still come on to them two people in one room alone together who feel strongly attracted to each other and one of them tries it on : oh dear, oh dear one of them may regret things the next day or so
I would be either monogamous or monogamish in a marriage read about the nature of the gemini on you tube (born during the evening) it is NORMAL IT IS HUMAN to feel attracted to more than just one person and to feel like acting upon it (even when you choose not to) because that is in our DNA thats whats is really the very definition of attraction the desire to have sex with someone else doesnt make you abnormal it makes you human you are NOT mentally or emotionally unstable or abnormal because you feel attracted to someone else besides your spouse a survey has revealed that 74% of men and 68% of women would have sex with someone else if it were guaranteed that their spouse would not find out !!! it is normal, human to feel, to desire , to want connection, even when you dont , thats what makes us human to want connection emotionally, sexually or spiritually
@philnoll That is an exelent discription of religion. Religion tends to look in books for answers, instead of looking at how the real world works. Dan's point that monogamy is really, really hard to accomplish is, I think, perfectly on target. We don't have to behave like animals and fuck around when we can, but we should be realistic and realize how we work, and use that to strengthen our relationships instead of letting it fall apart as soon as we make a slip...
Dan is brilliant. He is informed, thoughtful, intellectually creative, and, above all else compassionate. Anyone who would call him a "pseudo-intellectual" is plainly stupid.
Well, Dan basically said the same thing: if you know in the first place that you can't be monogamous with anyone, then you shouldn't commit to monogamy and you should open up a relationship before you go on and fuck around without telling your partner. I'm guessing that what offended you was Dan's proposition that a one-time-cheating-accident shouldn't outweigh years and years of a successful relationship (unless, as he specified, said person were to be a total asshole about it and yadida)
people are not open or honest from day one and even when they sometimes wish to stray which may actualy not have been their intention to start with they marry you because they love you. any occasional person they may like or fancy and want to sleep with one might also say people who lie to you CHOOSE YOU by lying to you because the other person is not important enough to admit to having slept with and they think they can wiggle out of it because people are afraid to admit anything some would say cowards
Do not push one agenda over another. I am not gay so I cannot really give any suggestions to impressionable minds. Fuck YOUR ideas on what we have evolved from. How funny that it is the woman to push pro-active hypergamy. As far as you being gay, I am indifferent.
"Swinging, cheating (whatever) ultimately leads to feelings of inadequacy as the couple ages." There are oh so many counterexamples in which this simply has not happened. And swinging does NOT mean placing value only on the physical. You speak about swinging like someone who doesn't know it.
I respectfully disagree. My step-brother posted one of your videos on his FB and I liked what you had to say. Now I browsed to this video and I must say, this is where we part ways. I would be heartbroken if my partner tried to "talk me into babysteps" toward swinging. I would call that nagging, manipulation and emotional abuse. Sex is the only part of my bf that is exclusively for me. I've known many people in these types of relationships and they only work for a while. I've seen very sad ends
I like Dan's point in many videos but I'm not sure about this one. I have no problem with people being non-monogamous. Monogamy is not for everyone and if people can recognize that, that's really great. But to compare monogamy with despair is not right. I know myself and I couldn't handle an open marriage. But that's me. But no need to hate on my preference for monogamy.
People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others and their told either not to feel like that or not to feel at all which leads to secret desires that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years or so , may be some people can who knows I think that is what he meant sometimes people say things strongly to make their point I am a gemini I should no about saying things and people getting the uncensored version my bark is worse than my bite I don't mean it as strongly as it may come over that may also be the case for Dan Savage
I can understand this in general, but: 1) STDs 2) if you're getting regular sex, what on earth do you have to be pissed about? Many people don't get any, and are functioning members of society. 3) Whatever your preference, you really need to lay out the mutually agreed upon rules of your relationship clearly. 4) Duh! Of course the other partner will feel insecure, they'll wonder how they're not satisfying the partner whom they love.
@samuelthestrong polyamory is the better term. polygamy is more closely defined as having multiple spouses, and usually it means a guy with multiple wives. He gets multiples, the wives just get him on occasion. Polyamory is more about each person being equal, and relationships being equal.
I find Dan's videos hilarious, even the ones I disagree with completely. I laughed about the 'people dying' comments while disagreeing with his content(in this case on cheating 3 or 4 times being a good monogamist, monogamy being unpleasant, etc). The best thing about Dan Savage is that he helps me understand a world that seems so very different from my own but is probably next door.
Sure, I might have thought about it. I could never do it in real life though. Sometimes I imagine killing people too when I'm frustrated, but I could never do that either.
I've always been a serial monogamist, and thought open relationships were a license to indulge in hedonism. However, after I conquered my pathological jealousy, my attitude completely changed. If my partner were to broach the subject of an open relationship, I would give it serious thought. Because it's not just about more sexual variety. Some people need a LOT of attention, and some folks have a LOT of love to give. Why can't that abundant love be shared?
@nevyn1 We have an evolutionary response towards jealousy though. Women value emotional commitment, men value physical commitment (women want to make sure men put their time and resources into raising their genetic payload, men want to make sure it's actually their genetic payload). On top of that, it's not physically possible to love two people at one time I think, raw deal for either old or new. The Coleridge effect means you probably transfer positive emotions to one's new partner:
So men will theoretically require 300-1000 mates before being "satisfied." So the idea that all humans should feel a natural desire to non-monogamous is false. Generally, only men have the desire to be consistently non-monogamous. However, the fact that a gay man is "preaching" the opposite comes as no surprise, because homosexuals are not bound by these same limitations. They cannot procreate, and are biologically dissimilar to heterosexuals.
The fact that monogamy isn't natural doesn't mean it's not good. That mindset (natural=good) is wrong. It isn't natural to save the weaker children from diseases, but we do it anyway, we understand it's the best way. I live a monogamous relationship and I'm completely faithful to my wife. I can (and many times I had to) control my urges, that doesn't I don't have them. I was actually criticizing the video, if you read my comment carefully again.
@velocity246 Does he really categorically compare monogamy with despair though? When he says "the despair of monogamy" he means for people who'd /like/ to see a second person naked sometime in the rest of their life. For THEM it is despair. If you asked him he'd probably say that monogamy works for some people and that of course for them there is no despair involved.
If monogamy isn't natural why do girls mourn over the lost of their virginity when their lovers cheat and move onto another girl? Monogamy IS natural to variety of species of animals & is genetic. Girls form bonds with their lovers and sex isn't a matter of giving into a impulse but connecting with someone you truly care for If you guys cannot control your urges like the common baboon, that's totally ok, but again don't impose it on others.There are people who are totally capable of commitment
What ever take you have on yourself is your business, but don't impose it on others. By science humans are the into living things on earth conscious, all the rest are pretty much blind and autopilot due to instincts, meaning we are the only ones capable to understand a god and a creator, making us not only intelligent and creative, but spiritual too.
I'm stunned that this type of advice is on University campuses and being applauded. Sex is not a snack. It's sacred. Treating the sacred as though it was cheap will cheapen your sense of worth. You are worth someone's life long commitment. Ask for it. Expect it. Give it in return.
Meme War Survivor well, he is not. And I am NOT enough for him. That's our biggest gift of love to each other. We have a beutiful relationship with each other, and others.
@@lindacf2379 If he's not enough for you and you're not enough for him, the two of you are not in love with one another. You have a sexual relationship without any deep bond, aka you can fuck other guys and neither you nor him will respectively feel any guilt or any hurt. Without love there is also a total absence of care, of unity, of belonging to one another. It's *SAD.*
The problem is when you fall in love the only person you want to have sex with is your partner, so you commit. A year or two goes by and the illusion of falling in love is vanishing little by little. You still love your partner but the sex is no longer as exciting and satisfying. So, are we not supposed to commit it all? Is monogamy really doomed from the very beginning?
@nevyn1 As in, old partner gets shafted if they love their new one more (or more often), new partner gets shafted if they go back to old partner at night. There's also the fact that unempathic people will do it whether their partners agree or not then shack up with their new partner: Charlie Brooker's stayed up at night crying at the beauty of his gf then she left him.Not saying it's not a solution for some couples, but even for them, love will take effort and compromise.
Ok, no problem. Women generally don't want to have sex with as many as possible, but that doesn't mean they're necessarely more prone to monogamy, only that their reasons to cheat are different. Cheers!
If it is easy for you, that doesn't mean that it is easy for everyone. I personally have absolutely no desire for other partners, so it would be easy for me to. But my partner can't do it. He hasn't had sex with other people yet, but to ask monogamy of him would be cruel imo.
One of the problems being a gay guy in college is you have to assume every hot guy you see is straight and off limits. So, yeah. No sex for me (yet) :(
Open relationships are for people who can't break up with the person they are dating/married to. If a person requires more people, that means that their current situation is not enough or good enough for them. People get emotionally attached when they connect with people physically and mentally, but we have in our DNA a way to protect our future by becoming jealous so that we can fight off any invader that might prevent creating offspring. Try to ignore it and you'll just be hurting someone in the long run, so hopefully you're ok with that.
I kinda want to agree with him on monogamy but i'm just not there yet...Not experienced enough...I see his point i'm just not there yet... Maybe i'll even see eye to eye with him a bit down the road..?!
i feel that people need to know what type of relationship they are getting into. if the person does not want to be in an open relationship then they shouldn't be guilted into it, pretty simple. but saying that i would do just what Dan said, let the partner who doesn't know have the leverage and control, if they don't like it then the other has to deal with it and move on. figure something out, such as role playing maybe or porn. what ever happened to just looking at porn?
many people would not even dream of saying or suggesting things out loud people might make you look immoral or untrustworthy people are not willing to want to show or share that part of themselves that feels desire attraction to anyone else I think it was Oscar Wilde who said people can be honest with a mask on in other words other wise they don't show you their real intentions or personality , because you will be judged upon it you have to in public conform with the opinions of the masses and not stick your neck out whether it is about sex politics or religion people keep certain opinions to themselves in fear of public judgement or humiliation or ridicule and that is why people LIE that is why people are not open or honest from day one and even when they sometimes wish to stray which may actualy not have been their intention to start with they marry you because they love you and not any occasional person they may like or fancy and want to sleep with one might also say people who lie to you choose you by lying to you because the other person is not important enough to admit to having slept with
There is a reason why the divorce rate is so high, and it has little to do with any gods, let me tell you. I know very, very few people who have long marriages and good sex lives. It's a sad thing to watch.
Why is a reproductive bottleneck significant? As mammals (or DNA based life), it is our objective to reproduce in the fastest, most effective fashion possible. Human females can reproduce a maximum of every 10 months. That only requires one mate to accomplish. Thus human females generally only desire one mate. Something similar is frequently seen in nature. Human males, on the other hand, can produce enough sperm dense ejaculate to theoretically reproduce 1-3 times per day (cont...)
Dan Savage is brilliant! Love his open honesty and witty charm! Amazing ability to address historically taboo subjects with humor and class.
The point is couples can decide for yourselves monogamy or not. Up to you. Open your minds.
I'm pretty sure Dan Savage is my favorite person on earth at the moment! And as a 100% straight female, I think he is sexy as hell! Amazing speech! I've always thought of swinging as horrible and could never even imagine partaking in such an activity, but after watching that, it makes total sense! So smart!
I love it when people talk about their parents as if they knew exactly what went on in their innermost feelings from before they were born.
I'm just going to say that, if one needs to sleep with others in order to keep their current marriage in tact, then their current marriage is doomed to begin with.
An no, cheating 3 or 4 times doesn't make someone "good at monogamy". Just like striking a child only 3 or 4 times doesn't make someone good at parenting.
Dan you have no idea how much I love you, and what you do.
It works with some but not for everyone.
It worked beautifully for us and having a little fun on the side has made our relationship stronger and kept us together
I'm so glad you have these videos now. I love your advice and you're not too shabby on the eyes either.
Dan always makes sense.
Dan Savage is an interesting guy.
LOVE how he explains things in a common sense honest manner! Also like how Cher describes her relationships as serial monogomy.
your criticism is precise and fabulous. Thanks for making a coherent and clear argument.
I had fun reading about all the people defending monogamy.
i love dan.
i saw him when he came to u of lethbridge in february.
awesome.
Humans are constantly evolving. Most of the world accepts the idea of monogamy today and if we continue to believe in this idea of suppressing out instincts be monogamous, in a million years it would be much easier to be monogamous.
I think that's the reason why it's SO extremely hard to be monogamous. Our animalistic instincts are still too strong. Give it a million years and imagine a world where monogamy is easily achieved.
Oh Dan. That sigh at the end just made my day. XD
I don't think one can say humans are naturally promiscuous or monogamous, but I will say this: I hope that monogamy as the default dies off. At the beginning of any relationship it should be an open question, but there are still what seems like a majority of people who think it is the only way to go. If you want to be with one person for your entire life (or at least relationship), that's fine. But you shouldn't force or expect anyone else to live that way.
+alchemist889 Hear Hear!
alchemist89 i
Right, because the nuclear two-parent family has been such a disaster for society. We should totally replace that with a sexual free-for-all.
I think that humans have both within them actually contrasting as that sounds we instictively want one solid life partner and yet we want to spread our genes
*alchemist89* Darling, no one who's in a relationship is in the position of "forcing" or "expecting" anyone to be monogamous since that requirement is the very foundation of such kind of relationship, so much so that there is never even a discussion about it at any point of the relationship (unless one of the two is caught being unfaithful).
On the other hand, if a person feels "forced" to be in a monogamous relationship, then it is he/she who is displaying a dysfunctional desire to cheat, or to be a promiscuous slut, or a sex addict, or a mentally or emotionally unstable person.
I thought this was a very positive (and funny) talk. Takin' it to the next level, Dan!
Answering your question... because, as I said, jealousy is natural. Pair bonding is also natural. Not pure monogamy.
Monogamy would be natural if you were completely and naturally turned off towards other people when you're with someone, and that's not the case, in most cases.
@owlcu Exactly. I have no problem with polyamory or polygamy, as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. Why is it so difficult for some people.
I would even go a bit far and say that it's hard for an individual, male or female, to understand another one's sexual impulse, being that no two individuals are exactly the same. That's why honesty and communication are fundamental in a relationship. When things are taken for granted, failure will inevitably come.
I'm sorry Dan. I completely disagree. Is it true that we are not wired to be monogamous? perhaps. But at the end of the day people like to know they have someone who considers them special. I can have the desire to go sleep with a thousand guys, but at the end of the day I only choose to do it with the one I care about. Sex is sex true, but what value does the sex with my significant other have when all I do is go have sex with a thousand other men? None. It hurts to know that someone you love is seeking intimacy from someone else. It makes you feel like there is something you lack within yourself, when in fact this could be nothing further from the truth. Your advice may work for some, but for most people this is far fetched. Also do you really think polygamy is safe? we have so many STDs running in our community and its because of the very fact that people do this. Honestly Dan, there are many things I could forgive a partner for, but infidelity is NOT one of them.
I feel Dan Savage is feeding into gay stereotypes☺
Why a thousand? That's kind of absurd. I doubt anyone in this world even has the time to have sex with that many people. What if a couple has sex with 2 other partners for the duration of the relationship? Does that make the couple promiscuous? This is about swinging, which is something couples decide to do to whatever extent they want, together. Polyamory is not infidelity, and monogamy does NOT guarantee safety from STIs. You can be monogamous for years and still become infected by a careless encounter, whether the encounter happens with you or with someone else.
I think the thousand number was more to illustrate through exaggeration than anything. My view though, is that two is just as bad. Not that people can't agree on what kind of relationship they want to have. Mono, poly, swinging, whatever... But there's no way in hell that even one extramarital partner would be acceptable in my marriage. And it's not about STSs or pregnancy. Those can be avoided.
I just get tired of being told that monogamy is "unnatural". It's insulting & incorrect. I don't think that there's any one specific wiring for everyone. Just like some people are gay, some are straight, some are bi, and more. Why is one natural, and the other one isn't?
@@MiaStar RE: _"monogamy does NOT guarantee safety from STIs. You can be monogamous for years and still become infected by a careless encounter, whether the encounter happens with you or with someone else."_
*You make no sense. To be **_monogamous_** means to have no sexual encounter whatsoever outside of a relationship or marriage. Therefore your statement is in full self-contradiction.*
*Also, if a person is getting into a poly-amorous situation, he/she is more likely to have promiscuous sexual encounters with other partners outside the already warped 'threesome' relationship. The statistics are very clear on this subject.*
@@ctf3414 RE: _"Why is one natural, and the other one isn't?"_
Because this society has gotten sick to the point of telling us that if I believe to be a woman, then I _am_ a woman; and that others _must_ accept this fact even if what's found between my legs is a penis.
You still refuse to sleep with me because you say I'm a _man?!_ Then you're _transphobic!_
Only a gay guy get's to be this honest; a hetereosexual male is too caught up in preserving this illusion that they are somehow different from most guys. This is often a selling point in courtship. I think monogamy makes more sense to those with less testosterone, but having never been a woman, I could be wrong.
I'm confused...I know he's somewhat recently said on Bill Maher that he's been married for almost 20 years, and yet here he only says he's in a non monogamous relationship with a boyfriend...what?
I do want to point out that I'm not hating, I love Dan Savage! haha, juuuuust wanted to be clear that it's a serious question and I'm truly just confused.
I know this video is older, but still if he's been married for 20 years, then it's still weird to hear him say he just "has a boyfriend" and they're "not monogamous". lol the language just confuses me I guess.
+evand2 I think he means he is not monogamous in the way that he occasionally has sexual experiences with other people but he comes home to his boyfriend and only has a true relationship with his boyfriend
Also the joke he's used was "married in Canada" boyfriends in the US before he was legally married here
wow dan savage is a psychopath for believing you've been faithful to your spouse if you've only cheated on him or her "only" 4 times!!! how anyone can take dan seriously is beyond me and he makes a living giving this idiotic advice.
I love this man.
I think each relationship is unique, as it is made up of unique individuals. When two personalities mix, mutual agreement is hardly the issue - compromise becomes the essential glue that cements them together. My belief is irrelevant to another relationship. Yes - Dan is certainly courageous.
it is NORMAL IT IS HUMAN to feel attracted to more than just one person and to feel like acting upon it (even when you choose not to) because that is in our DNA thats whats is really the very definition of attraction the desire to have sex with someone else doesnt make you abnormal it makes you human you are NOT mentally or emotionally unstable or abnormal because you feel attracted to someone else besides your spouse a survey has revealed that 74% of men and 68% of women would have sex with someone else if it were guaranteed that their spouse would not find out !!! it is normal, human to feel, to desire , to want connection, even when you dont , thats what makes us human to want connection emotionally, sexually or spiritually
I can’t agree with Dan but I respect his opinion.
True, many are not made for monogamy and I would never judge another’s choices.
But to “beg” a partner who wants to be monogamous is sad and selfish. Your decision needed to be made in the beginning of the relationship.
I’m a gay man who actually wanted an open relationship but it broke my fiancés heart, so I decided to stay monogamous.
Love should always come before sex.
I agree that this is the case, I was merely stating that monogamy, like poly, is not for everyone. There is also a strong correlation between vassopressin receptor mutation and polyamorous behaviour in humans, giving the indication that some people are biologically geared towards monogamy, some polygamy, and some polyamoury/swinging/open relationships. In short- do what works for you and find someone who wants to do it with you that way! :).
I strongly believe in monogamy - but it's not for everyone. Swinging, cheating (whatever) ultimately leads to feelings of inadequacy as the couple ages. Placing value only on the physical, is always a mistake. I have no problems being faithful to my partner, but if he were ever to cheat on me, I would certainly deal with it in a level-headed way.
YOU r nothing more than common beast. But, I am not.
I am a conscious complex spiritual being & I plan on committing my heart, my mind, my body, my soul and my spirit to the person i want to spend the rest of my life with
Our moment of coming together will be a sacred reminder of our special bond that no one on earth but us can share. Lovemaking will always be a physical representation of our deep feeling for one another & of the union we established at the alter before god & our loved ones.
I couldn't agree more with Dan.
Hello,
I was trained in evolutionary biology at a US university. I'd like to address a few things that you were referring to as "normal." Monogamy is actually seen in nature. It is uncommon, but it is more common than homosexuality. This brings me to my next point. Homosexuals, individuals that have chosen to base their (potentially alienating) lives/lifestyles around their sexual beliefs, operate from unique biological angle. #1 They don't have reproductive bottlenecks, and 2# (continued...)
And this is where I and Dan Savage part company. From Edward Carpenter through Bertrand Russell et al the idea that open relationships can be of benefit to people has been shown to be a harmful lie. One or other person gets hurt and in a post AIDS world when this kind of sexual socialism was clearly a mitigating factor in its initial spread, I'm not sure whether this kind of advice is either useful or even relevant.
The gay community learned a hard lesson in the 80's. We musn't do so again.
Well good thing we have things like Prep, hpv vaccine, condoms etc.
@@ramonanaya6236 You're an idiot. Ever heard of something called STDs?
@Lilja124 According to human nature? What is human nature? That's a broad statement. In my opinion, human nature is anything that humans wants to do. So if someone wants to be in a monogamous relationship, that's human nature. If someone wants to be in an open relationship, that is human nature. Human nature comprises of ALL human behavior (in my opinion).
Commitment to monogamy for a lifetime doesn't have to mean being jailed, bored, etc. However, that assumes an uninhibited, spontaneous, open to experimentation partner: unfortunately, a rare find. The usual is the same sex sequence on the same day, at the same time, with the same practices, SHOOT ME.
some people then think boring not everyone though People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others and their told either not to feel like that or not to feel at all which leads to secret desires that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years or so , may be some people can who knows
An insight into the mind of the gemini :
I am a gemini and a gemini does not like feeling caged it doesn't mean you have any unfaithful intentions and you may like your life with your loving partner but as soon as a gemini even because of your attitude or by what is expected from him feels unfree he or she wants to be away from you if you don;t want someone to want be away from you and maybe like to be among anyone else you can of course lure that person in your direction make him want to be with you !!! that makes it his choice !!!!
People are very judgemental and unforgiving even in the case of an occasional one night stand people's mindset :
if you really love me you would not have done such a thing many people would not even dream of saying or suggesting things out loud
people might make you look immoral or untrustworthy and your partner may dump you so that leaves no room for openness and honesty because that has consequences : if you cheat even the once you are not to be trusted your yesterday's news we are finished or I want a divorce people are not willing to want to show or share that part of themselves that feels desire attraction to anyone else I think it was Oscar Wilde who said people can be honest with a mask on in other words other wise they don't show you their real intentions or personality , because you will be judged upon it you have to in public conform with the opinions of the masses and not stick your neck out whether it is about sex politics or religion people keep certain opinions to themselves in fear of public judgement or humiliation or ridicule and that is why people LIE
I'm in a poly relationship and let me say its an incredibly hurtful thing to agree to a monogamous relationship and then change the rules and want to open it. You CANNOT and SHOULD NOT expect your partner to be okay with that.
it's not that you can't or shouldn't. It's you accept if they aren't ok with it. People change. People make self realizations. Life and Time tend to do that. The sad reality is, if you dont want to throw away a long term relationship you have to be open with your partner about your needs and how they, and you, are changing. even if it hurts them to hear it. if its important enough to bring it up, if it's important enough that it could fracture the relationship. it must be addressed. either way. the relationship is gonna end, or continue.
@@anibalybarrarojas
You can’t and you shouldn’t.
@velocity246 I agree. I know from experience some people can't be monogamous, no matter how much they love you. But that doesn't mean monogamy is despair. For me, truly being in love means that there is no one else that I want, just that one person.
I am not against monogamy though. Some people can find love that way, it's just not for me.
People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years for example may be some people can who knows but I think that deep down a lot of people are let's call it cheating curious but they don't want anyone to know that that is what they are really thinking they feel attracted to someone else and even when they have faithful intentions the person that they may fancy might still come on to them two people in one room alone together who feel strongly attracted to each other and one of them tries it on : oh dear, oh dear one of them may regret things the next day or so
I would be either monogamous or monogamish in a marriage read about the nature of the gemini on you tube (born during the evening)
it is NORMAL IT IS HUMAN to feel attracted to more than just one person and to feel like acting upon it (even when you choose not to) because that is in our DNA thats whats is really the very definition of attraction the desire to have sex with someone else doesnt make you abnormal it makes you human you are NOT mentally or emotionally unstable or abnormal because you feel attracted to someone else besides your spouse a survey has revealed that 74% of men and 68% of women would have sex with someone else if it were guaranteed that their spouse would not find out !!! it is normal, human to feel, to desire , to want connection, even when you dont , thats what makes us human to want connection emotionally, sexually or spiritually
@philnoll That is an exelent discription of religion. Religion tends to look in books for answers, instead of looking at how the real world works. Dan's point that monogamy is really, really hard to accomplish is, I think, perfectly on target. We don't have to behave like animals and fuck around when we can, but we should be realistic and realize how we work, and use that to strengthen our relationships instead of letting it fall apart as soon as we make a slip...
Dan is brilliant. He is informed, thoughtful, intellectually creative, and, above all else compassionate. Anyone who would call him a "pseudo-intellectual" is plainly stupid.
Anybody who takes advice from Dan is plainly stupid.
Well, Dan basically said the same thing: if you know in the first place that you can't be monogamous with anyone, then you shouldn't commit to monogamy and you should open up a relationship before you go on and fuck around without telling your partner. I'm guessing that what offended you was Dan's proposition that a one-time-cheating-accident shouldn't outweigh years and years of a successful relationship (unless, as he specified, said person were to be a total asshole about it and yadida)
Open relationships are asking for trouble-jealousy, insecurity, cheating, breakups, divorces...
@nevyn1 - you are 100% correct. Love and Sex are 2 different phenomena. If more people understood this, less suffering would occur.
people are not open or honest from day one and even when they sometimes wish to stray which may actualy not have been their intention to start with they marry you because they love you. any occasional person they may like or fancy and want to sleep with one might also say people who lie to you CHOOSE YOU by lying to you because the other person is not important enough to admit to having slept with and they think they can wiggle out of it because people are afraid to admit anything some would say cowards
Do not push one agenda over another. I am not gay so I cannot really give any suggestions to impressionable minds. Fuck YOUR ideas on what we have evolved from. How funny that it is the woman to push pro-active hypergamy. As far as you being gay, I am indifferent.
"Swinging, cheating (whatever) ultimately leads to feelings of inadequacy as the couple ages."
There are oh so many counterexamples in which this simply has not happened. And swinging does NOT mean placing value only on the physical. You speak about swinging like someone who doesn't know it.
I am 30 years old. Been with her for 14 years. And a few others. Her too. Works fine for us.
people are afraid
I respectfully disagree. My step-brother posted one of your videos on his FB and I liked what you had to say. Now I browsed to this video and I must say, this is where we part ways. I would be heartbroken if my partner tried to "talk me into babysteps" toward swinging. I would call that nagging, manipulation and emotional abuse. Sex is the only part of my bf that is exclusively for me. I've known many people in these types of relationships and they only work for a while. I've seen very sad ends
I like Dan's point in many videos but I'm not sure about this one.
I have no problem with people being non-monogamous. Monogamy is not for everyone and if people can recognize that, that's really great. But to compare monogamy with despair is not right.
I know myself and I couldn't handle an open marriage. But that's me. But no need to hate on my preference for monogamy.
People can feel sexually frustrated when it is expected from them to have sex with only that one person when actually they feel for some or many others and their told either not to feel like that or not to feel at all which leads to secret desires that's like a ticking time bomb situation that fuse at some point is going to blow you cannot keep that up for 40 years or so , may be some people can who knows I think that is what he meant sometimes people say things strongly to make their point I am a gemini I should no about saying things and people getting the uncensored version my bark is worse than my bite I don't mean it as strongly as it may come over that may also be the case for Dan Savage
I love this guy lol
Agree on all points.
It would've aided the "I'm not sure I can get behind this one" feelings a bit if he had elaborated more on when cracking the door open fails.
Yea, some people just can't do it. Actualy, a lot of people can't do it. And they sure don't want to watch it. If you can't, you can't.
though i must say because of the way we have been socialized our current insecurities may never be truly ousted but at least its a start.
PLEASE COME TO ENGLAND!!!
@ItsMoriashkiBitches "Sobriety" means "how drunk you are", basically.
I can understand this in general, but: 1) STDs 2) if you're getting regular sex, what on earth do you have to be pissed about? Many people don't get any, and are functioning members of society. 3) Whatever your preference, you really need to lay out the mutually agreed upon rules of your relationship clearly. 4) Duh! Of course the other partner will feel insecure, they'll wonder how they're not satisfying the partner whom they love.
people judge the other person and their entire relationship
@samuelthestrong polyamory is the better term. polygamy is more closely defined as having multiple spouses, and usually it means a guy with multiple wives. He gets multiples, the wives just get him on occasion. Polyamory is more about each person being equal, and relationships being equal.
Proverbs 2:16 "Wisdom will save you from the immoral woman, from the seductive words of the promiscuous woman."
The Living God what about immoral men....keep your witchcraft to yourself.
Haha, I loved this
"Where was I going with this? ... Oh! People died!!!"
I find Dan's videos hilarious, even the ones I disagree with completely. I laughed about the 'people dying' comments while disagreeing with his content(in this case on cheating 3 or 4 times being a good monogamist, monogamy being unpleasant, etc). The best thing about Dan Savage is that he helps me understand a world that seems so very different from my own but is probably next door.
Sure, I might have thought about it. I could never do it in real life though. Sometimes I imagine killing people too when I'm frustrated, but I could never do that either.
Dan Savage blows the "cover" of the homosexual community on "being just like everyone else." It was always a lie. Thank you Dan for admitting it.
I actually know more straight couples who are open than gay ones.
1:56
He’s just guessing. Good luck (on not ruining your monogamous relationship) to anyone who takes his “advice.”
Dan Savage 2012.
I've always been a serial monogamist, and thought open relationships were a license to indulge in hedonism.
However, after I conquered my pathological jealousy, my attitude completely changed. If my partner were to broach the subject of an open relationship, I would give it serious thought. Because it's not just about more sexual variety. Some people need a LOT of attention, and some folks have a LOT of love to give.
Why can't that abundant love be shared?
@nevyn1
We have an evolutionary response towards jealousy though. Women value emotional commitment, men value physical commitment (women want to make sure men put their time and resources into raising their genetic payload, men want to make sure it's actually their genetic payload). On top of that, it's not physically possible to love two people at one time I think, raw deal for either old or new. The Coleridge effect means you probably transfer positive emotions to one's new partner:
Ahhhh, you are the man. : )
So men will theoretically require 300-1000 mates before being "satisfied." So the idea that all humans should feel a natural desire to non-monogamous is false. Generally, only men have the desire to be consistently non-monogamous. However, the fact that a gay man is "preaching" the opposite comes as no surprise, because homosexuals are not bound by these same limitations. They cannot procreate, and are biologically dissimilar to heterosexuals.
I am 40 years old. Been with her for 14 years.
The fact that monogamy isn't natural doesn't mean it's not good. That mindset (natural=good) is wrong. It isn't natural to save the weaker children from diseases, but we do it anyway, we understand it's the best way.
I live a monogamous relationship and I'm completely faithful to my wife. I can (and many times I had to) control my urges, that doesn't I don't have them. I was actually criticizing the video, if you read my comment carefully again.
"I'm a deeply CONSERVATIVE person!" pffffffff XD suuuuuure.
@velocity246 Does he really categorically compare monogamy with despair though? When he says "the despair of monogamy" he means for people who'd /like/ to see a second person naked sometime in the rest of their life. For THEM it is despair. If you asked him he'd probably say that monogamy works for some people and that of course for them there is no despair involved.
And so the average IQ drops.
OH PEOPLE DIED!!!
If monogamy isn't natural why do girls mourn over the lost of their virginity when their lovers cheat and move onto another girl? Monogamy IS natural to variety of species of animals & is genetic. Girls form bonds with their lovers and sex isn't a matter of giving into a impulse but connecting with someone you truly care for
If you guys cannot control your urges like the common baboon, that's totally ok, but again don't impose it on others.There are people who are totally capable of commitment
Oh ok. I'm sorry, that was my mistake, I was mistaken what you were trying to say. hugs!
What ever take you have on yourself is your business, but don't impose it on others. By science humans are the into living things on earth conscious, all the rest are pretty much blind and autopilot due to instincts, meaning we are the only ones capable to understand a god and a creator, making us not only intelligent and creative, but spiritual too.
I'm against mindless spam.
We built a rocket and went to the moon ... natural? I think not. So try again.
Dude it so freakin' funny.
I'm stunned that this type of advice is on University campuses and being applauded. Sex is not a snack. It's sacred. Treating the sacred as though it was cheap will cheapen your sense of worth. You are worth someone's life long commitment. Ask for it. Expect it. Give it in return.
Dr. Emmanuel V. Parenteau lol
I agree. If you want an open relationship, you are telling your partner that they alone are not enough for you. It's not a good situation to be in.
Meme War Survivor well, he is not. And I am NOT enough for him. That's our biggest gift of love to each other. We have a beutiful relationship with each other, and others.
@@lindacf2379 If he's not enough for you and you're not enough for him, the two of you are not in love with one another. You have a sexual relationship without any deep bond, aka you can fuck other guys and neither you nor him will respectively feel any guilt or any hurt.
Without love there is also a total absence of care, of unity, of belonging to one another.
It's *SAD.*
The problem is when you fall in love the only person you want to have sex with is your partner, so you commit. A year or two goes by and the illusion of falling in love is vanishing little by little. You still love your partner but the sex is no longer as exciting and satisfying. So, are we not supposed to commit it all? Is monogamy really doomed from the very beginning?
Everyone here defending monogamy has never seem human testicles, apparently.
I have... And still prefer monagomy.
@nevyn1
As in, old partner gets shafted if they love their new one more (or more often), new partner gets shafted if they go back to old partner at night. There's also the fact that unempathic people will do it whether their partners agree or not then shack up with their new partner: Charlie Brooker's stayed up at night crying at the beauty of his gf then she left him.Not saying it's not a solution for some couples, but even for them, love will take effort and compromise.
Ok, no problem.
Women generally don't want to have sex with as many as possible, but that doesn't mean they're necessarely more prone to monogamy, only that their reasons to cheat are different.
Cheers!
If it is easy for you, that doesn't mean that it is easy for everyone.
I personally have absolutely no desire for other partners, so it would be easy for me to.
But my partner can't do it.
He hasn't had sex with other people yet, but to ask monogamy of him would be cruel imo.
what does sabriaty mean?
One of the problems being a gay guy in college is you have to assume every hot guy you see is straight and off limits. So, yeah. No sex for me (yet) :(
Open relationships are for people who can't break up with the person they are dating/married to. If a person requires more people, that means that their current situation is not enough or good enough for them. People get emotionally attached when they connect with people physically and mentally, but we have in our DNA a way to protect our future by becoming jealous so that we can fight off any invader that might prevent creating offspring. Try to ignore it and you'll just be hurting someone in the long run, so hopefully you're ok with that.
True dat.
I kinda want to agree with him on monogamy but i'm just not there yet...Not experienced enough...I see his point i'm just not there yet... Maybe i'll even see eye to eye with him a bit down the road..?!
Cheating hurts very much. The feeling of rejection is unbearable.
i feel that people need to know what type of relationship they are getting into. if the person does not want to be in an open relationship then they shouldn't be guilted into it, pretty simple. but saying that i would do just what Dan said, let the partner who doesn't know have the leverage and control, if they don't like it then the other has to deal with it and move on. figure something out, such as role playing maybe or porn. what ever happened to just looking at porn?
many people would not even dream of saying or suggesting things out loud
people might make you look immoral or untrustworthy people are not willing to want to show or share that part of themselves that feels desire attraction to anyone else I think it was Oscar Wilde who said people can be honest with a mask on in other words other wise they don't show you their real intentions or personality , because you will be judged upon it you have to in public conform with the opinions of the masses and not stick your neck out whether it is about sex politics or religion people keep certain opinions to themselves in fear of public judgement or humiliation or ridicule and that is why people LIE that is why people are not open or honest from day one and even when they sometimes wish to stray which may actualy not have been their intention to start with they marry you because they love you and not any occasional person they may like or fancy and want to sleep with one might also say people who lie to you choose you by lying to you because the other person is not important enough to admit to having slept with
@owlcu I'm a Right-Winger and I think Dan is awesome!
There is a reason why the divorce rate is so high, and it has little to do with any gods, let me tell you. I know very, very few people who have long marriages and good sex lives. It's a sad thing to watch.
Why is a reproductive bottleneck significant? As mammals (or DNA based life), it is our objective to reproduce in the fastest, most effective fashion possible. Human females can reproduce a maximum of every 10 months. That only requires one mate to accomplish. Thus human females generally only desire one mate. Something similar is frequently seen in nature. Human males, on the other hand, can produce enough sperm dense ejaculate to theoretically reproduce 1-3 times per day (cont...)