Dan Savage & Esther Perel | Love, Marriage & Monogamy | Talks at Google
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Googler Logan Ury talks to author and sex advice columnist Dan Savage, as well as "Mating In Captivity" author Esther Perel, in the fifth of our Modern Romance talks. They discuss infidelity, new models for marriage, abstinence-only sex education, and monogamy.
Check out www.savagelovec... and estherperel.com.
"in the US sex is the risk factor. In Europe, irresponsibility is the risk factor" - Esther Perel. She's an amazingly knowledgeable speaker! She shares so many facts and statistics and shares such interesting observations.
facts
33:00
Who needs a moderator with these two? So much honesty... We need more of this
I thought the moderator facilitated the talk really well though. Thought provoking interesting questions.
I do agree, respect that both of them gave very honest answers. We do need more of these.
Two very different speakers - Esther Perel is a gem and a class act, not to mention brilliant, sensitive and thought provoking. Agree or disagree with her perspective, she simply speaks with intelligence and grace, not vulgarity, and with the perfect amount of humor. Such respect for this woman
+Lois Lyons jesus. really? are you twelve??? "someone said something 'vulgar' so their point is void." grow up.
She didn't say Savage's vulgarity voids his point(s). Grow up yourself. I also prefer Perel on balance, but Savage is insightful, too, and offers useful analogies. It was a great discussion; wish there'd been shorter and more questions at the end.
Vro
OH NO BAD WORDS
It's not a matter of bad words, but when someone is invited to speak in public and half of his rather limited vocabulary revolves around the verb "to fuck", it just makes you question this person's expertise in any given field.
Both of these were great, but Esther was a revelation. I'd never heard her speak before, and I came away from this completely awed by her clarity and perception.Amazing talk, folks.
+Nathan Jennings
Thanks for that, mate. ;-) I've been tracking down other talks and interviews of Esther's, but I hadn't thought of going to TED yet.
One of the best talks on marriage and monogamy. Marriage should be like a business contract. You should be able to renew the contract or not renew the contract every two years. Because, you will treat you partner if there was a chance that they didn't want to renew the contract.
Esther Perel is a brilliant and amazing human. Her perspectives and insights are relevant in a way that embraces the dilemmas of our evolving sexuality. She understands the beauty of love and its ideals and the continued striving to achieve it. I adore her and she inspires me to be a better version of myself. I am in love with her body of work. She is a woman I embrace as part of my tribe!!
I found it surprising that both Dan Savage & Esther Perel suggested shutting down Google for a day... yet this is how I came to this talk in the first place. I searched and found.
Instead of trying to hide in the safe cocoon of the past, sexual educators should evolve and find ways to be relevant in the digital age.
Dan Savage was very much on point. I agree with @Joshua Giddy. The fact that we are so taken by sexual words just serves to underscore the fact that we are still very traditional in our approach to sexual matters and relationships.
Wow. I came to listen to Dan Savage, and he was great, but Esther Perel was amazingly insightful as well.
this Esther should rule the world ..Gosh she speaks so much fucking sence ....
@@localasbestosremoval8392 aa
Rss434s44see
@@localasbestosremoval8392 11
I would love to hear more about how 'equality topples after having children' and what we can do to maintain equality of power in a marriage/long term relationship after the introduction of children.
Dan's articles are great. He gives insightful advice. The things that I have found most useful from Dan is that, in a relationship between two people, you have to communicate what you want, you can't assume the other person wants the same things as you, or that you know what they want, or that the other person can read your mind about what you want. We all have to learn to communicate. It's when we don't talk and don't try to really listen and understand each other and find ways that can work for both partners, that's when we become unsatisfied. Also a good point is that some times what you both want might be very different, and if those difference are big enough and so important for the each of you, then maybe you won't work well together.
He's also honest about sex and sexuality, our desire for others doesn't always go away when you are with someone or in love with someone. To have desire is to have a natural human reaction. But as an adult human, you can decide what you would like to do with that feeling. You don't have to act on it and you don't have to give yourself an unhealthy guilt trip which doesn't help the situation.
He's also saying, we're human, we're imperfect, and sometimes we fuck up, and sometimes even when we fuck up people can still work things out between each other. Also people can cheat for lots of reasons, and when you can understand what the reason is, then maybe you can work it out, if you want to.
I always think Dan is often saying, each to their own. What you want and what you can work out between two people, (or more if there are more involved) can be amazing. And we are all allowed to do that. There is no one rule book. Get to know yourself and get to know your partner.
Esther is also great :)
Esther Perel: "the home is where we bring leftovers" that hit a nerve! So true. Countless times I saw my ex give her best to others - often complete strangers and when she got home we copped the "leftovers" comprising her tiredness, irritability, and disagreeableness.
I love how people are complaining about Dan Savage's "vulgarity." Yes he uses fuck and cock a couple times. The reason is to punch through to people. There are many people who disagree with him and who will largely ignore what he has to say. Both speakers are worth listening to.
It's off-putting for such a complex topic in a serious setting ...we're not watching a stand-up act in a club. Just my opinion.
Grow up. Just my opinion.
not at all, he talks like most normal human beings who dont have a stick up their clacker.
In Europe, fuck and cock are not really swear words.
More than just a couple of times. I like his perspectives but even I think that his message would be better received without the language. He can say sex and we all know he is talking about people fucking. I think Esthers language is just fine and I get the message just as well.
59:21 Perel: If for you, you say, "I like one person," ...because passion is generally monogamous. Passion doesn't share well. When you're passionate, you love singled-minded; you're very focused on one person. When you've had lots of insecurity in your life and massive trauma in your life, sometimes it makes you want to just have somebody that is there for you, that is reliable, stable, secure, and you do not want to have to deal with the unknown of multiples. The goal is not for you to try to see, " How can I be non-monogamous?" If your sensibility is one that is more single, stay like this if you like it if it works for you. If one day you change, then go accordingly to that. Don't align yourself with ideology.
Dear Haters. Just because someone swears does not mean they are unintelligent. If you can't look past that towards the meaning of what someones is actually saying it seems to be more reflective of a complex within yourself :) inb4 you're perfect and how could i dare imply that you have unresolved emotional/mental truama or repression
Boris Bee here here ✌🏼
just makes them crass and vulgar
These comments tell a lot about the commenters and often less about the speakers. you can hear fear, outrage, judgment and limiting thoughts throughout. Very interesting. I love Esther. Her wisdom is exquisite.
Ms. Shura mm. word. Hit the nail.
I enjoyed very much...its opposite views...street vs. Edumacated...esther so eloquent ...dan, brutally frank...(hardley brutal tho) I remember the buttplug questions...his column was hoot !! it was those questions that attracted me to his column back in the dayday...the sunday pink section in the s.f. Cronicles I think ...hes a cutey...and she a beauty...
P.s. my theory on manogomy...im pretty sure we werent meant to be monogamous...religion invented that...and men were meant to spread their seed...its in their DNA to do so , its how we survive as a species and women would go around to different tribes trading sex for stuff they could use. Sounds good to me, and that women use to be in charge. Matriarchy not Patriarchy.. I read it in this book called Love Monogamy and Marriage or to that effect and was actually looking for the book itself or the author but must have title wrong..and I wound up here. Just cruizin round...learnin new chit for chat...im definantlly a seeker of truth and the best way to go about love...being a monogamous, jealous freak from hell triple scorpio myself aaaaand a sometimes selfappointed sex therapist...I must remain somewhat open to other views and opinions andd sort of saw what you saw in the comments...judgy,holier than thou whatnots wasting prescious space critiquing the messenger and perhaps not really hearing the message...and perhaps im wrong....aaanyway...we all just want to be loved...
Expect nothing
Want nothing
Need nothing
And you shall recieve every thing...
Is my motto of the year....well see how that works out...
Halllafrikkenlujah
Im done!
Peace every one
your comment just revealed that you're full of yourself lol
This was a great discussion. Esther really is great at explaining female psychology as it pertains to sex.
You mean the part from 36:56 I found that surprisingly thorough and clear..and accurate.
I love both of these speakers! They both make very valid points and I have become a better communicator because of them! Thank you so much guys! 🤗😘😇🐙
I think conscious relationship models is the "new conversation" as Esther likes to say. I imagine it as an all-you-can-eat buffet - a little of this, a little of that. What each couple puts on their plate is different according to their needs/desires. Also it's the realization you can return for multiple servings and put a different combination of food on the plate as well as discarding the stuff you tried but didn't really like. Traditional marriage is like going to McDonald's, there's no menu, they hand you a bag and then close the restaurant. Half of us end up not being able to eat what's inside and then go hungry....
+Mike Bouck Whenever you use metaphors, it becomes very easy to completely bypass logical discussion.
Wow what blast . Brilliant all three of you 🎉
The producers chose two people already in "violent agreement", where Esther represents the academic side, and Dan the real-world experience with the extremely important cultural impact. I have a hard time finding where they disagree. And yet so many are pointing out that Esther is "classy" and "a brilliant researcher", while Dan is "vulgar" and a "nobody". Instead of actually taking a dig at what he is saying, people are taking a dig at his lack of MDs, DPhils, Psy.Ds. I call it BS, and an ad-hominem attack. It's because what they are BOTH saying is controversial (don't choose monogamy by default, but consciously, if you do choose it), that people are comparing the speakers not on content, but on style. Vulgar Dan, has the temerity to utter the f-word, in front of poor Esther! People don't even actively agree with Esther - merely call her "classy" and "eloquent"! Seriously this glorification of a research degree, and utter willingness to dismiss a talker based on how he says something, and his background, rather than what he says, bothers me.
Also, I've heard Esther say 'fuck' many times on various videos/ podcasts.
I absolutely love her. I don't see why the comments are so divided.
It’s almost as if these critics have another kind of problem with him 🧐
Dan savage is the only person who can talk about cheating without making me feel super anxious haha
The key word "alive" - I think that is the key here. People look for that in so many ways. I have admired both Dan Savage and Esther Perel for a long time. Excellent presentation.
Boredom/excitement = One of the same reasons people shop-lift.
www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/1236/shoplifting-an-important-and-neglected-clinical-issue
I would say it also matches quite a few other reasons on that list that I have heard therapists use over the years. I marked 5 with yes:
1. Anger-to try to take back, to make life fair [YES]
2. Grief-to fill the void due to a loss
3. Depression-to distract from sadness, to get a lift [YES]
4. Anxiety-to calm fears, to comfort
5. Acceptance/Competition-to fit in
6. Power and Control-to counteract feeling lost or powerless [YES]
7. Boredom/Excitement-to live life on the edge [YES]
8. Shame/Low Self-Esteem-to create a reason to feel bad, or to feel competent at something, even if it's a bad act
9. Entitlement/Reward-to compensate oneself for overgiving [YES]
10. Rebellion/Initiation-to locate one's identity [YES]
What can we learn? there are lots of reasons why people do things like cheat, steal, or anything for that matter, yet all reasons seem to fit well among a clinically ill, over-expecting/stimulated, and spouse-focused society.
23:00 "The redefinition of monogamy as a primary emotional commitment - that may or may not be including sexual exclusiveness - is one of the most important things straight couples can learn from gay couples" wise words
This woman is brilliant.
Bravo! A frank and honest discourse about one of the most silenced, but most human activities- our own sexuality and how it interacts within societal super structures.
The only thing I'm surprised about - is how are they not discussing Attachment Theory and Trauma/ Addiction. Considering the contemporary amount of both in western life - they are equally wrapped up in desire. If you need something to " feel alive" be it sex, a drug, a purchase, a new car - the issue goes way beyond needing to " feel alive". Most people probably cross that line because it seems " safer" than shooting heroin but it's no different to the human brain. It surprises me that neither delve into the treasure trove of current research on addiction, desire, and cheating. After all, why not at least tell your partner " I'm not feeling alive" versus causing such harm?
Really great points.
A very educational and sensitive talk! Thanks Google. :)
i enjoyed the interviewer more than other interviewers for dan. the sitting arrangement could have been better. so grateful for the post and info.
I disagree with the 'bringing home leftovers' comment. To my experience, it's more about not having to wear the masks society demands of us, when we're at home with our partner. I also disagree with the 'dressing up' part. Sure it's nice to dress-up once in a while and go out on a date, but I find my partner much more attractive in pj's and fuzzy slippers than I do in sparkly evening wear lol. Another thing I want to comment on would be the different 'faces' that we all have and the people we show them to. I am aware that my partner acts differently around different people and gets some emotional fulfillment this way. I enjoy watching these interactions when I can, because it's another aspect of my partner's personality to explore and one of the reasons I fell in love with them. You shouldn't be in a relationship if you aren't happy with your partner when they're in home-body mode and ideally, by the time you've entered into a relationship that involves any level of commitment, you will have already seen most of your partners different faces and be comfortable with them. All in all, it was a great presentation and I do think that monogamy is unrealistic for most people, so don't make that promise if you can't keep it. Talk honestly about sex and infidelity with your potential partner before starting a 'serious' relationship. Understand what each of you need and expect and decide then whether to keep going. Even if you've been in a relationship for a while and then start to feel the need for some change, discuss it with your partner and work something out, or leave. Don't start cheating. One of the worst the worst things you can do in life is live a lie.
Esther insights are really good.
Esther Perel predicts the 2020/21 pandemic @44:48 😱 This Lady is wise Beyond belief! @estherperel
Very interesting conversation. One thing that I felt was an elephant in the room that they were both passing over was in saying that hetero couples could take a page from homosexual couples and be more open to non-monogamy. Its a very different conversation among the two groups because pregnancy is a non-issue for homosexual couples. Birth control and condoms don't always work and abortion goes against the values of some heterosexual couples, therefore it's a much more complex issue.
JoJo Correct, but birth control be condoms typically do work, when used properly, and especially if both are being used (that's no fun, but neither is an unwanted pregnancy). My point is, while you have a valid point, one must be careful not to overemphasize it, as the likelihood of running into that issue when responsibility using condoms and/or birth control is very slim. Also, I think it's safe to say that most couples who would be engaging in extramarital, be it together or apart, sexual relationships likely hold values such that if an unwanted pregnancy was to occur, abortion would be on the table. I mean, probably not many conservatives and/or religious folks are engaging in these kind of things, so abortion isn't likely to be an issue. Sure, some liberal people take issue with abortion too, but my point is we're talking a very unlikely situation, once again. Like I said, you make a completely valid point, but I think that circumstance is on the fringes of what's likely to be a serious problem. Cheers ✌🏼
Nikola, that's an interesting and valid point about abortion/values lining up. And yes, condoms and birth control work the majority of the time. Despite that, I know of many couples who had "oops" babies while using contraception. I, myself, was the only planned baby out of four children. All this to say, even if it works most of the time, those times that it does not are an 18 year major life adjustment (and of course, a lifetime but legally speaking 18 is required) or at minimum the length of a pregnancy (for those that would do adoption). However, perhaps this is an issue of not doubling up? I don't know if both forms of birth control were used in each case. I would say though not everyone can do both forms. For example, I have a girlfriend that birth control gave her migraines so she had to discontinue use but of course that's rarer. Putting birth control to the side, I personally know and love five ladies in my life who had abortions three of whom painfully regretted it later (of course not to say the majority of all women regret later but to say some do). The point being, it's a much more complex issue for hetero couples than for homosexual ones. Lastly, I'd like to say thank you for bringing your points and in the manner in which you did. Your well thought out and considerate dialogue-ing is very much appreciated : ) All the best to you
JoJo Word, dude. Thanks for the reply. As I said before, everything you said is valid, and yeah, even if that "danger" of unwanted pregnancy with no abortion on the table, is a low likelihood, the severity of the situation is still so extreme that even an unlikely scenario definitely has to be taken incredibly seriously. I'm gay, and sometimes I wish the threat of pregnancy (I've had sex with a couple women, just very little, and most was before I came out the closet) was an element I had to worry about, if only for the fact that it makes one slightly more responsible (hopefully). Unfortunately, STD/STI risk has not been enough of a risk for many of my friends and I, to have safe sex, and I'm lucky I haven't gotten HIV. In some sense, call me crazy, I see the pregnancy risk as a kind of good thing. It helps keep sex safe, as boring as that can be... ✌🏼
I see what you mean by the pregnancy risk as a good thing to aid in safe sex - makes sense. It definitely puts a serious check mark in the column for reasons to practice safe sex. Sorry to hear that about your friends and your struggle with practicing safe sex. Why do you think that is? . . if you don't mind me asking (hope that's not rude to ask) . . best wishes
Not if the woman involved can no longer get pregnant. Not if you open up to emotional involvement which doesn’t have to include sex or at least p in v sex
They do agree on some fundamentals, but I think they diverge when it comes to monogamy. Dan made it clear right away that he does not believe in monogamy, that monogamy has failed us. He didn’t specify, but it sounds like he differentiates between romantic monogamy and sexual monogamy. In that area, from everything I have read and heard from Esther Perel, she disagrees to some extent. She tries to help couples quell those curiosities and to revamp their desires within their monogamous relationships.
I loved the mention of people getting into monogamous marriages and divorcing several times, but judging others who stay in one marriage that happens to be non-monogamous. They're committed to monogamy rather than to their partners.
Savage promotes open, consensual relationships where the "fling" is just that- a fling. He & his husband have worked it out & recognized what they require to keep their own partnership happy. He uses very well-known statistics which bear this out. Perel, is the relationship-as-most-know-it voice which is fine if it works. I find Savage's arguments to be valid & based on undeniable fact, not bias. I think that a lot of folks only want to see their definition of what a good relationship looks like-- and nothing BUT theirs. They, themselves, have linked "love = sex" & can't understand sex without a full-on love commitment. Well, if it isn't for you, then by all means, don't partake. But don't resent the rest of the world who believe & think differently.
You should direct your speech to Dan Savage then; he bashes monogamy, he says that monogamists are "immature" and he ignores that jealousy has been proven to be a natural, animal thing. I respect other people's lifestyles if they respect mine; cheaters don't, and neither does Dan Savage. There's only a word to describe this new generation of smoke salesmen who fabricate excuses for cheating, conveniently ignoring how betrayal destroys a person emotionally: Bigot.
You must have missed the word, "consensual" here...Again, consensual adults are free to determine what works for them. Savage specified he did not think there was anything wrong with monogamy, other than how it's set up to essentially fail (as statistics bear out). Our current form of "monogamy" is a social construct. And if you're going to go to the "animals experience jealousy", then don't leave out how many animals are very NOT monogamous. Careful of cherry-picking.
I'm not the one pretending that promiscuity isn't natural, he's the one pretending jealousy isn't. And not knowing that forced copulation and violent post copulatory guarding are natural, while putting rapists and abusers into a jail is a human custom. Face it: He's the cherrypicker
Dan Savage's logic: Cheaters exists, so monogamy is destined to fail. Then jails, laws and police will never prevent the birth of new criminals; Does it mean they are set up to fail and we should get rid of them?Also, they already tried to introduce the free love model in the '70s; does it look like it worked to you?
What makes me laugh about this spectacular hypocrite is the impression that he believes his model will prevent cheaters from breaking the rules of the open relationship and betray him; keep dreaming dude.
I love Dan Savage. Brutal honesty should not be confused with vulgarity.
+Zach Tomney vulgarity is as noble as brutal honesty. let's not play the high horse game here.
+VroomBat X One would think if they are the same thing? High horse not needed.
They're not mutually exclusive.
As a straight heterosexual older single male, this was a very wonderful discussion, I totally agree with…thank you!
We know you agree
@@cristinanavarrete200 really, what’s that suppose to mean ?
Esther is always entertaining and thought provoking.
I might add that the focus on Sex has a big part to do with the desire. Sex is a constant influence in our life and not easy to resist.
Where the focus is on sports, business or other interests women seem more frequently able to lose desire for sexual contentment in exchange for activities and events that may not include a spouse. To the degree that appreciation for sex is no longer a common interest in the marriage.
Im sorry but Dan I totally disagree as a gay man. He wants to have his cake and eat it too, you'd have to have two really freaky people for a relationship to with stand "fucking other people". Not all gay men think the way Dan details here and to me it is a total turn off. There is always one partner that wants to step outside the relationship more. also there is the issue of stepping outside your relationship and getting an STI or HIV and giving it to your partner. That is Dans belief system and not every same sex, gay person thinks that way. I'm all for faithful, healthy monogamy, true love is scared and if you really love someone why would you want to share that with the whole world. just saying I totally disagree.
this is mind shifting! thought provoking. I love when she said that the mother vs the sexy woman shifts the hormones accordingly.. so true.
Dan Savage is the most eloquent speaker and thinker on this subject. Excellent Video!!
Love the expression of the Google Bot's face at the 45:00 mark when the speakers ask Google to shut down for an instant. Her face says, "This is not on brand - what do I do?!"
In the US, "if you don't have sports most men would never be touched." Bravo.
Give a women her car and show her true nature!
Love Esther!!
And that 'car', as Ester mentions briefly later is emancipation and birth control.
It’s so weird that people are arguing in the comments about the two speakers, because after watching this in full, i clearly see that the two speakers are saying the same thing. This isn’t a debate, it’s a “talk.” A bunch of you in the comment section are jaded off the minor differences or off the personal bias you hold on the topic, but it’s pretty clear that for the most part these two speakers are saying the exact same thing. Their perspectives are about as different as I’d expect them to be given that they come from different backgrounds, countries, as well as having sexual preferences.
TL;DR: monogamy, in relation to its contemporary definition, is trash, but if two people want to commit to obeying traditional practices, that’s their choice.
STL;SDR: Open your mind, think for yourself.
lee android this.
Happy
I have never been monogamous minded even when I was deeply in love and I accpted that without shame as part of my nature as a human being but then I am a gemini a free spirit who does not have the imposed morality or opinions of the masses on anything , a sigma male you could say, I have my own moral compass, my own ideas , I listen to others whether they think like ME, or if they may have a point
Savage talks about love & commitment, but not about intimacy. I don't believe you can have an "open relationship" and still be intimate - intimacy is with one person only. I love listening to Esther Perel. She is so observant and everything she says is wrong with this country is so true!
Absolutely wrong. Intimacy can absolutely be multiple
@@mstamper77 That's not intimacy, it's just selfish fucking
@@mstamper77 physical not emotional
I would highly suggest looking at this at a more objective view, because what you consider “intimacy” isn’t the same for everyone else. You absolutely can have physical AND emotional intimacy with multiple people. It may not be possible for you specifically, but it is for others. In a non-monogamous relationship, you’re creating intimacy of various levels. There are poly/ENM/open relationships where sex or physical intimacy isn’t even a factor. All it depends on the ppl involved.
So to say they can’t experience genuine emotional intimacy within their relationships is rather insulting. If non-monogamy isn’t for you, that’s perfectly fine. But I don’t think it’s fair to try & diminish the intimacy of non-monogamous relationships just because you can’t relate.
This is amazing. Both Dan and Esther are so insightful.
What a great talk
Both were articulate with their thoughts
"there is not the one, I'm treating you like the one"
I love Ester's delivery!!!
rough draft of points id like to make/have people touch on...what yall think of the following?:
-Cheating: it seems that one person in the relationship often likes the idea of polyamory for themselves, but does not want their partner to be with anyone else, so instead of an agreement on a polyamorous relationship and open communication, trust is broken and cheating occurs
-With all of the things filling up our schedules, it seems hard enough to have a strong relationship with just one partner - to make time emotionally and physically for them. How is it possible to balance 2+ partners and still have your “base” partner solidified?
-How do you keep track of diseases and infections
-What happens if the person who is not your base partner gets pregnant? (obviously this is for a straight or bi couple)
Interesting talk, thanks, if I can give an advice I m a girl and my mom gave me the kama sutra (all original book, not only the position part) to read when I was around ten, I must say I always thanked her for this in myself because it gave me already an idea of existence of different views of
sex and relationships, still making me able to maintain my point of view and not finding it akward.
25:22 I love this point! Very mind blowing 🤯 😌
I find very interesting the shier AMOUNT of hate Dan Savage gets for his stance on monogamy and his stance on sex-ed. And how many people say "But Esther Perel isn't like that". Also how americans drag politics and stamp the label of political view on everyone's core self. "Dan Savage is a left-wing communist that is why he has these views."
But Esther Perel has mostly the same views. Very few differences and where differences appear they are in fact things of nuance rather than principle. Esther just has a different way of presenting her views, a more elegant approach. But I guess it just goes to show you that humans are in no way rational, analytical individuals.
Incredibly thought provoking. Thank you.
But why audio is so low :P?
Thank you for everyone’s advise and knowledge.Dan can you slow your speech down it’s difficult to understand when your speaking so fast.Thank you.
Dan talks about fucking ( which is totally animal thing)which doesn't need expertise because animal do it , he is not brining anything new to the table, and actually is not helping . On the other hand Esther talks about relationships . I do not think these two people should be in one scale, she's way more developed, and experienced in her field, and could actually change lives for the better.
Dan has saved hundreds of homosexual men and women from social ostracization and suicide. He is a well respected journalist, political activist and unaccredited psychologist with years of experience in his fields. Your lack of respect for his work says more about your character and ignorance than his. Maybe think and do a little research before typing a response next time.
Dan has saved hundreds of homosexual men and women from social ostracization and suicide. He is a well respected journalist, political activist and unaccredited psychologist with years of experience in his fields. Your lack of respect for his work says more about your character and ignorance than his. Maybe think and do a little research before typing a response next time.
So since he saved hundreds of men from suicide, now he's free to give a cherrypicked excuse to thousands of cheating spouses to bring their victims into major depression/suicide, and calling said victims immature because they have natural emotions?Also: Journalist, political activist, unaccredited psychologist, aka a person who deals with opinions, not scientific facts. Maybe you should stop spamming bullshit, moron.
Why the hostility? There's a spectrum, people have different backgrounds and adult tastes. Personally, I value Esther Perel very highly; I'm European by choice, share her perspectives (and your distaste for vulgarity, though not as strong). Wish I'd come across her earlier in life.
Dan Savage's mistake may be that his assertions are sometimes too sweeping. I did enjoy his comment about monogamy being one of the few conditions that, conventionally, requires 100% compliance -- as opposed to falling off your bike and still being a champion bike rider and winning the Tour de France.
I totally agree. This is a bad match to interview together.
Really don't know why everyone is bashing Dan on here.
Cardinal Visions I have many ideas as to why, but ultimately it depends on the person. He's a divisive figure, always has been (not to me, though, I don't agree with him on everything), so it's not shocking to see all the vitriol against him. That said, this comment section is clearly more biased against him than what I'm used to seeing on UA-cam. It's grating, but he's got a lot of enemies on the right and the left, pretty much all of them humorless. In my opinion people are threatened by him, that's the primary cause of all the negativity. Maybe I'm wrong, but anyway, I digress.
Nikola Demitri It seems to me that respondents on this video are just reacting and haven't actually watched the video and what he actually said.
hangarflying Agreed. I meant to imply that with my comment, but perhaps I wasn't doing a good job. Part of my point in saying he's got many enemies, was to convey that these folks just don't like him anyway, as opposed to not liking what he's saying here. The reasons for religious/conservative folks not liking him are obvious. There are a lot of nasty, false memes about Dan (that he's transphobic, biphobic, a bully, etc.) that are rehashed again and again, and I think those are the primary reasons liberal or leftist folks hate him. Either way, it's a bunch of people with preconceived notions that judge him based on those notions, rather than the content of what he has to say. I think that's likely why there are many comments against him here. Cheers ✌🏼
2:58 he says monogamy is a fking trap oh I wonder why people are shitting on him so much because he a fking creap
easier to blame the audience than to accept that dan's delivery flat out sucks. if he wants to get his message across, he should package his message more appropriately for the general audience. i can't speak to the validity of his statements, but he needs to work on his communication. not everyone likes it _rough_ and that is a valid consideration
Dan savage is wearing white socks hahahaha
great talk!!
They make some good points, like a decreasingly degenerative society over the last few decades/century, like serial-monogamy Western world, and a decline in everything that once had meaning while being substituted for anything that provides pleasure, which paves the way for more negative trends in the future--and if you cant beat em, join em they suggest.
Also, like any other commentator, they simply define how they think the world accommodate this trend, but not in any objective way, but rather via their own worldview (if I cheat, or know lots of people that do, then everyone else should), oftentimes resorting to using hyper-liberal/degraded Europe as the role-model, simply citing stats to support their viewpoints.
Doesn't hurt that shes an eloquent, deep-thinking, likable, wealthy, Torrey criticizing America. Where are the videos from couples that have been married 80 years that show couples can last happily for lifetimes without all the modern garbage?
The worst part is that by making a comment, I am causing this video to appear higher/more often in youtube search results--so thereby, controversial ideas, which are generally either very lib or conserv, are going to get more exposure; but esp so on the lib or "trendy" side. This way we can guarantee that even youtube will always push the envelope, as any PR, is good PR.
I could create a completely opposite viewpoint to their video myself. Give me the most votes on this and I will create it myself (maybe just audio?).
Was also disappointing to see yet another repeated bashing of opposing viewpoints. Anyone surprised that america is heading towards Civil War #2? Pew and newspapers agree.
www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/06/12/7-things-to-know-about-polarization-in-america/
www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/opinion/the-american-civil-war-part-ii.html
I'm happy to find one sane person in this place👏👏👏
They talk about freedom - which comes with the need for knowledge and responsibility for your decisions.
I agree with you in the point that there is a need for another discussion around (educating) values.
Monogamy in itself is not a value, but trust, confidence and commitment are. That's exactly what Esther and Dan are advocating.
They just say: be honest and then you're happier and you have fidelity (in the true meaning).
It's cheating only if you're not open about it. If you watch porn videos without your wife knowing about it. If you fantasize about having sex with another person without telling your partner. If you are a hypocrite - maybe due to lack of power and social pressure.
Don't let you guide by priests who praise virginity and clandestinely fuck children.
I agree about .64 concept, but I value monogamy. I want that in my life, but not just for monogamy's sake. I value my partner and only want that person sexually, and only trust her sexually, and I don't think I'd feel excited or fulfilled by someone else if I were to go there.
Dan Savage basically advocates his point of view on every subject--his way is the correct way and everyone else is wrong. I also totally disagree with him on his views on sex education for children. While I do think it should be taught in schools, I think that Dan's preferred curriculum of teaching kids the options of masturbating together (if they're younger), all the options open to them, such as anal sex, fellatio, etc. is really crossing the line and not at all appropriate.
Thanks sooo much 🤗
Dan 20 minutes in is brilliant - redefining marriage and writing our own rules
i wish i could have seen this in 2004, maybe then i wouldnt have been so hung up on the idea of a monogamy and the one i couldve woked out the wonderful relationship i had in my 20s with the person i loved the most in my life
I am a little bit confused about something, women in heterosexual realationship tend to cheat as often as guys.
Yet lesbian relationships are the most monogamist ones. How is that ?
Because then you have even 2 women - which in my experience tend to be more jealous (jail-ish) and proprietorial than men :-) .
The charm differential between these two is staggering.
He's a "know-it-all" while she's an "illuminator".
Great insight about modern life!
Great insight about hypocrites justifying themselves
The real trouble is so many are all about themselves while loathing themselves and this is projected from stagnated individuals. Rebuke, be compassionate, honest, and accountable. Without taking the position of a victim there's no assailant.
I really like esther's sensible and physchology explanations... she seems to put pieces together to create a big picture of where we are at today and how we have evolved.. I wonder if she is an INFJ... I also do appreciate Dan's take and perspective.. I may not agree 100% on everything he says.. I do however feel he is a well spoken on this matter and has a interesting perspective and can understand where he is coming from and find plenty to learn from him as well.
I don't get why they didn't say any good word about monogamy. I love being monogamous and invest in my relationship in long term, also I see marriage as a stabilizing institution, as a process of development in itself, ritual of marriage is spiritual in itself, it's a beautiful thing, symbolic process and it goes much deeper. They just simply ignored this side. Very sad how you can just spit on it by looking at it as a restriction.
Love to listening to Esther, so graceful and great in explaining female mind, psychology. Could listen to her for hours.
🦄 Dolt by John Rickel 🦄
Why this presumption toward longer relationships? Maybe the most common response to a changing society will be shorter relationships? Aren't they both defensively presuming that what should survive is marriage-like relationships even if monogamy must be sacrificed for that goal?? Isn't the reality that more and shorter relationships will better meet people's needs?
What I wonder is why is it that we need marriage? Let me clarify what I mean. What is it that we specifically need to keep about marriage? If you think about that for a little while, what is marriage really. It is a celebrational ceremony tradition to a varied degree, it is a public and formal declaration of would-be commitment, it is the presumption that the two now married people will have family usually.
But what do we need marriage for?
For one a celebrational tradition is really an excuse to throw a lavish party with your loved ones, family, friends and relatives. What makes it different from a birthday party other than the theme, connotation and emotional attachment? Nothing. I mean it certainly does nothing for the relationship so it is clearly not about that. It is fun and who doesn't love a party, but why then and not a week later? What is stopping you?
What about the formality? Will a formal piece of paper change your relationship? In some countries you get tax benefits which is preferable treatment and that may be compelling, but I doubt that is why people marry per say. And even more than that though this formality or these preferable treatment policies do nothing to maintain the relationship.
Commitment? Well wouldn't you already say that you were pretty committed to your partner and your relationship a day before the marriage ceremony. Certainly marriage is a formality of what your relationship already is. It won't make it better, it won't make it worse, everything coming with or without was always already there; maybe just not actively present. But whatever wonderful and terrible things you discover in your partner was always already there, marriage didn't do that, our lives circumstances did.
So what do you need marriage for?
Jenkkimie well I am getting married, I am doing it for the party.
Then I am doing because I want there to be a ritual/ceremony/celebration to mark the active choice we are making our commitment, I don't want the relationship as something that happens to us passively.
However, that is not the model for everyone, I can see that it is a dying institution and not relevant for a lot of people.
27:45 - 36:45 Adstinence education very dangerous
39:54 - "What turns her on is to be the turn on, and that's the big secret of female sexuality is that it is massively narcissistic. It's the opposite of the caring for others, of feeling responsible for others. If she can think about herself, then she can be into it. And in order to think about herself, she then needs to like herself. Hence, she can't be in a critical voice. That's the perfection piece. If she starts to think about everything about her that is not good enough, that she doesn't like, she will shut herself off. Before you ask a woman if she will make love to a man or to another woman, ask a woman if she would make love to herself. If she doesn't want to make love to herself, she won't let anybody else do it either, and that's where the perfection piece comes in. That voice is harder for her to extinguish because it is more self-reflexive than it is for him." - Esther Perel
47:41 Conversation and talk about it
49:20 Adult sexualized people different from family
So Dan, just an FYI, there are people for whom monogamy is natural and feels just as right as you're assumption that everyone has a predilection to cheat. The fault I find in all your arguments is that you assume everyone is like you and they're not. There are studies that show people have inclinations either way and they simply should seek partners that are like minded. Thus you can just have open relationships or closed ones based on what is satisfying and healthy for the couple.
Jealousy is an emotion, how can you prove that in a non-human animal? Plus, how jealousy disproves non-monogamy?
You'll find Dan has spoken about this, that some are more happily monogamous than others. The point he's making is that monogamy is hard, that's it.
Sandra Prusaka Sorry. Hard for him, not everyone. But he often as I said speaks as if his experience is universal. It isn't. And as I said, I do not care what he does as long as he does not presume to speak for me.
He specifically addresses this at the start of the talk at 3:44. All he's advocating is that we shouldn't consider the lack of sexual contact with other people as the only way to be loyal to a partner, or that relationships shouldn't be destroyed when there's sexual 'infidelity'. He is also right to point out that wanting sexual contact with people other than your partner doesn't mean you're out of love. He isn't speaking for you, he's addressing social phenomena.
It's pointed out in the talk that 26-75% of people in monogamous relationships cheat, so I think it's safe to say that monogamy is hard. Maybe not for you, but nobody's speaking about you specifically.
Vague statistics are still vague. He can advocate all he wants. He still speaks as if he speaks for all gay men. He does it every chance he gets. I also have said he can do what he wants. The dead horse you keep beating surely enjoys it apparently. He advocates the exact opposite of monogamy as being able to be monogamous. If you cannot keep your word in regards to something you erode trust. If you're not capable of or do not want monogamy, do not claim you can. I disagree with Dan. He does not speak for me and acts like he does. I don't know why you're defending him or trying to convince me to like him. Our opinions differ and mine is not changed. Good day.
Dan works with the penis and Esther works with the mind. In my opinion it is harder to work with the mind. As a gay man, I don’t see any use in having another gay man with visceral advice talking about relationships.
I think this video changed my life.
I love Dan Savage... and the fact that he wears long socks and cuffs his jeans like it’s still the 80’s. 😂
This only mean he's a trend setter for the fashion to come 😀. No seriously, if you obey to the oftentimes ridiculous fashion rules instead of following your own taste, you end up to also obey to other repressive rules without thinking for yourself first.
Very insightful and thought provoking. It was pleasure to listen to them.
It's not that much about being monogamous but about being honest with your partner. So, there's someone on your radar and you tell this to your spouse and he lets you fuck that person? Well, bravo. But, rare are those who would be okay with it and then you are left with lies and secrecy and that hurts more than just being damn honest about your needs. If you are up for open relationship I think your partner should be aware of that, too. Other than that this is cheating and not simply acting vulnerable to your desires.
"The romantic ideal, that we are very much participants (in), is that I am going to be the 'chosen' one. And I am it, and I am irreplaceable, and I am indispensable, and I am the one. And when I'm the one it means that you don't think about or want or look at anyone else again. Hence, if you have everything you want with me there is no need to look elsewhere. Hence, if you go looking elsewhere that means there is something wrong with me, wrong with you, or wrong with us. And this is the current model of infidelity, that it is a deficiency model. It only happens because there's something missing. But I say that millions of people can not all be pathological after all. To turn it into a disease or a disorder when it is a phenomenon… combined with The secret truth that is beginning to come out which is that women get bored with monogamy much sooner than men."
Esther Perel @ 11:26
This is such a powerful and freeing statement for me. I have always admired and been in awe of almost every woman I meet. Not necessarily sexual attraction, but I very much admire and am attracted to most women. So it has been a bit anguishing to grow up in a hyper religious setting where I feel like I am on the edge of gross immorality continually because I admire women and am naturally so affectionate. The last thing I want to do is destroy people's lives, so I have spent most of my life simply shutting down any and all sexual desire. I am now choosing to explore healing in a big way, which means bravely looking at desire and choosing vulnerability.
This was great, I love both Esther and Dan plus the host was quite lovely.
Is it me or is the volume recorded on low? I have my settings at max and it's still super low volume and I can't hear. help...
I am sure this must have been covered but is there a reason why this host and his guests have to wear huge headsets and microphone stalks as if they have just jumped out of helicopter. It does not seem to result in good sound quality in the guest and potentially distracts . Anything wrong with a discreet top quality lapel mic? Oh and by the way, not complaining keep up with the great show and guests. Respect
Divorce rates are so high I am avoiding marriage and in many cases relationships. Only ones I'll hold up are of family and friends at this rate.
To be sexy, one has to love life, whether one is male or female. Is that accurate? If a person does not like living, being alive, or sex, they can't be particularly sexy. Being physically beautiful is solely a question of genetics, however sexiness is another question all together.
Mark Maysky Confidence is sexy. I think that's ultimately what you're getting at, no? If one "loves life/them self", they are likely to feel confident, thus, the sexiness. As far as the difference between sexiness and attraction, I think you're on to something l, though, I don't agree 100%. Physical attractiveness is largely genetic, yes, though physique can be sculpted by proper diet and exercise. The confidence certainly makes the difference between being a ten, or not (to some extent). A person can be attractive and built well, and be sexy, but lack that confidence, which definitely hurts their sex appeal. Ultimately, for the unattractive person, though, be it bad genes, bad body, or both, that confidence is key, and can absolutely make one very sexy, even if their body and face aren't beautiful. So, I think you are correct, but I think the visual aspects of looks still matter for what people find sexy, or not. Cheers ✌🏼🌈
Therefore? And did Esther have less to share or address in the last half hour or more? Hmmm….. Overall, excellent presentation! I plan to watch it again…..
I wonder if influencers realize how voicing personal political views can completely turn someone off.
Or even care.
Apparently I’m not mature enough to look past the fact that even tho someone is indoctrinated with main stream misinformation politically that they can still be conveying useful , intelligent knowledge in their field of expertise.
I have learned that if 1 buys into an illusion in one area & spreads that like the gospel then they gravitate to the bubble & never go down the rabbit hole which is where the real truth in politicians & their motives lies.
Sux for me .
I enjoyed some of Dans views.
He won’t miss 1 student.
Learning allot from Esther still
Good luck to US all on our adventures.
If you can have sex with others people, then you don't want to have sex with our partner as often, and sex is one of the most important part in the relationship, it's not a relationship anymore, it's more of a friendship that you have with your partner.
1. Yet some people say your soul mate should be your confidant, support, best friend (and every other thing etc).
2. By your own admission it is one of the most important parts, is it truly more important than everything else taken together?
3. The truth is a couple's sexual lives with each other decline naturally over time to reach a trough. What then?
4. Friendship is a kind of relationship. As is the relationship between a parent and child, or multiple children for that matter. It's important to realize that there is more there than the physicality of it.
Logan"s hair is beautiful.
Dan you have a good message, but some of the word choice limits what many will hear. Public forms of communication and speech should be considerate to all potential populations. It’s kinda like you lost me at the first hello, if you know what I mean. Just a suggestion so all of your audience might benefit from your message.
They deserved a better interviewer. Still great information.
So misogyny isn’t really misogyny it’s just normal and they were right
Those you can just have open relationships or closed ones based on what is satisfying and healthy for the couple.
Never get Married in the first place. Government involvement destroys lives. A spiritual declaration if you feel a life long bond with someone is more realistic. You agree on terms.