0:00 Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize. Download the Conscious Spending Plan so you can use your money GUILT-FREE: iwt.com/csp-youtube
I’m fascinated with the work you have done with folks and getting them to understand how money works and how to understand the effects. The realization of them getting it or even admit there’s an issue and they make the progress to a richer life. I need that help, we need that help.
I respect Mindy and the FIRE community, my understanding of FIRE is being efficient and frugal and not necessarily being cheap. I don’t like that you’re kind of shaming them for not being wasteful. I only spend money on things that brings me joy and not just spending because I have it. I search for best value and don’t pay more I should in time and money, I call it being efficient.
They don't seems to carve out any time for leisure. They could set aside an account for leisure and that would take their insuritites away. I can Identify but they have to shift their mind set from frugal to cautious spenders on experiences.
@Ramit im wondering if maybe you missed something really important at 47.25 min, Carl is telling that his friends told him he should do it. So I thought maybe because his friends agree with it and approve this money spending, he doesn't feel bad about it
This weirdly reminds me of purity culture in the sense that evangelical kids are taught anything remotely sexual is BAD, but once they're married they're expected to immediately embrace their sexuality. Seems like there's a similar gap in FIRE where people need to learn how to enjoy and get comfortable with spending, rather than saving up all this money to do nothing more than protect it, like a jealous dragon crouching over it's hoard. Props to Mindy and Carl for their willingness to share this vulnerable topic with all of us!
Oh my goodness! Terrible correlation… am a product of purity culture, didn’t kiss my husband until the wedding day. But had no issues in the bedroom at all from our first night to today 19 years later! Haha!!! Purity culture is far less harmful than free for all sex! Nothing to do at all with money!
@@cagr9334 you being a product of purity culture doesn't invalidate the experiences of others. some people do FIRE movement and don't struggle with their transition away from 'saver mode'. It's a great analogy.
When my aunt died about 6 years ago she was living in abject poverty in a house with no central heating and threadbare furniture. After her will was read and her assets were drawn together it turned out she was worth a fortune, but she had been too scared to spend the money, because 'what if.....' It was her fear of spending money that eventually killed her. You can't take it with you when you go, and you should enjoy some it on experiences that enhance your life and bring you together with your friends and family. Surely that's why it was saved, so that you could enjoy those years, not spend it still living in fear of where every penny goes.
@@AstorSkywalker I totally agree, and I can understand why people might decide to keep the money in the bank rather than living at least a basic standard of living. But there's a balance. I mean, having a ton of money in the bank and living without central heating or enough food to live on isn't a fair trade when the whole point of the money is for it to look after you when you can't work. It's getting the balance right whilst also planning for the future. It's tricky.
Did she grow up in poverty by any chance? I've noticed this behavior in people that grow up poor and start to amass wealth, of course, it doesn't apply to everyone that grew up that way. Honestly, it's really heartbreaking that she died that way, i'm sorry.
I don't know how to explain it, but this was the episode that really 'clicked' for me what a Rich Life truly is. I've been following Ramit and IWT since I was a teenager. As a twentysomething now, I really felt that my life was on pause until I would finally hit the amount of income that would cover all of my Rich Life expenses- until I realized that my Rich Life was never about dream trips or fancy clothes or hiring a personal trainer. Am I valuing experiences and relationships and health now? Is my money going towards those values now, or what I think I *should* be doing? My idea of a Rich Life isn't a set of experiences/material items I want and then I have to guess what that means in terms of 'what I value'. I need to determine what I value first and then put money/time into those values at my current income. I know it's silly, but I thought that 'travel' was a value. I now realize that my values when I was dreaming up these trips were 'relationships', 'continuous learning and exploring', 'rest', and 'good food'. I can still put money and time into these values even if I can't afford a three month trip around Europe yet. And while I save for that goal, I won't oscillate between feast and famine. This is what it means to live a Rich Life at any income. Great episode. Thank you Ramit, Mindy, and Carl!
Great point, we can live our values without blowing a bunch of money on luxury. Some of Ramit's interviews with wealthy people seem to be about getting then to spend more on luxury goods and services. But for some of us, we don't have an excess money problem (yet), and it's more about living well with what we have.
That’s a great point about traveling. People act like I’m crazy when I say I don’t like traveling. I know how to get those experiences and still sleep in my own bed at night.
The idea Ramit said that “there’s some waste in every system” has stuck with me. I repeat this to myself often when it comes to purchases that aren’t super efficient, like I could probably find this cheaper on Amazon, but I’m holding this in the store so I’ll just get it now. It helps me not optimize everything.
When I discovered entropy in my studies (I’m not a brainiac but I like to read) I never forgot this concept. I see it everywhere. Now latriy I know what opportunity cost is and I see it in dating, art, job choice and of course it’s origin; financial choices
Can we please have more episodes like this one with Mindy and Carl? People who know what they’re doing (like what a Roth is for) but still have interesting mindset challenges around money? They are more relatable for those of us who already have our stuff together :) Ramit, I read your book 8 years ago before launching my career. I want to see more advanced case studies :)
I can relate to this. I turned 50 few months back. Our net worth is 6.5M. I used to drive a 2007 Honda civic, so my wife gifted me a Tesla model X which is about $110k. I was honestly horrified and upset with my wife for such a frivolous purchase. It also came as a surprise because she also is quite frugal. I still have my civic which i use as my primary car and take the Model X occasionally. It’s been over 8 months and I still feel guilty driving it. I am an immigrant raised in the slums of India. I got my phd in US, started a company and sold it when I was 45. I am still working not just because I enjoy it but because of my mindset. I have a constant fear that I may lose everything. My sister who is a physician, also has a similar networth and has a very similar mindset as me. It’s a real struggle for us to spend money!
Try random acts of kindness, like paying for a strangers meal at a restaurant. Think of the cost of the Tesla as “a good day in the market” and train yourself to enjoy it some days and it’s ok to feel guilty about it on the others just like how the market goes up one day and down the next. 110k swing daily is probably common in your investments I’d say…
@@weswest8666 the daily fluctuations in the market are closer to 35-40k, because almost 50% of my portfolio is invested in real estate. But I see your point. It is actually easier for me to spend money on other people. For example the first thing I bought when I had some money was a house for my parents. It was my moms dream to have running water in the house! I also helped pay for my sisters education till she got her residency. I instituted a scholarship in my grandfathers name at my school that helps pay for the education for the top 5 kids from the school. Problem is when we want to enjoy our money. We have never flown business class. Our clothes and most of the other stuff is from Target. My oldest son who is in HS wanted $400 Air Jordans, which I refused because I thought it was ridiculous! At the same time I have over $150k in each of my sons 529. It’s a real problem for me to splurge on something. That’s why I could instantly relate to this couple.
Maybe you can deduct 2 million (as a margin of safety) from your networth, then calculate the annual spending you can have at 4% and force yourself to spend it on whatever nonsense? If you cant spend all of it that year, you will need to spend the accumulated unspent money next year or you will get some negative consequence? That is 15k a month. Please please please buy your son the air Jordan. If you keep rejecting a teenager material goods they dying to have, they will end up becoming a hyper-spending adults. You can explicitly tell him it’s just a one time splurge to manage his future expectation. I also recommend you to read the book “die with zero” which I read recently. It’s mind blowing. Although I am only in the wealth accumulation stage, it already striked me way more than I expected and changed how I looked at wealth accumulation.
It must have been difficult for your frugal wife to spend so extravagantly on you! Excellent work on her part! One aspect of thanking her is actually using and enjoying the gift and letting her enjoy your joy in it.
This resonates with me. We got out of debt a few years ago and have been saving ever since. With a comfortable amount saved, its hard to loosen the reins a bit and learn how to spend. I recently got a promotion and my husband and I sat down to talk about where the extra money could go. We decided to put money aside each month to eat out and to take a small trip and do something fun with our kids. Feels good to be able to enjoy life and not stress about every dollar. Ramit has changed my thinking about how money is handled in our home. ❤
I can TOTALLY relate. My husband and I live in expensive CA. We are still working in our early 60's because even with $4M+ it never feels like enough. We have investment properties, a Dollar General Grocery Store, a vacation home, our main residence, and about $1M in our retirement accounts. With the economy, and fluctuating stocks, we never feel, ever, like we have enough. We both still work, and do our own home improvement/gardening, much of the time. Sometimes we hire things out because we are too busy working, or we are just too old to feel good doing it anymore. We have a 26 yo son who owns his own home and is doing well, but is always to busy to spend any vacation with us - kind of like the Jim Croche song. Makes me wish I could have seen the forest through the trees while he still was young, so we could have taken some time to make experiences and memories with him. Now it all just seems too late.
I loved hearing Carl report back and listening to all the wonderful experiences he is going to have with his family. Well done Mindy and Carl, enjoy the money you have clearly worked hard to accumulate. Life is too short!
I think the fact that most common people have to be that concerned over $20 these days in order to secure their financial future is an indication of the overall failures of our governments to build economic systems that actually work for the working class. We should be frugal, yes, but the level of frugality that is required is severe for a lot of people and it really shouldn’t be that way.
That's why it is crucial to have a budget that has plenty of wiggle room. I don't really ever eat out, maybe one beer with friends and one date (I pay). So I have $125 in my Restaurant category. There is no fear over $10 difference in meal, I can leave a sizeable tip, and it's purely guilt-free - I spent the money on what I wanted to spend the money on. Financial Independence is about enabling you to spend money without working a traditional job. It should be spending-focused, just very deliberate about where your money goes.
I want to hear from Mindy and Carl on the regular! Their Bigger Pockets podcast was all about accumulating the bigger pockets, but now that they have bigger pockets, I want to hear from them about how they LIVE with bigger pockets. I want to hear THOSE struggles and challenges TOO!
I have huge respect for Carl and Mindy. Actually, I started my Fi journey after seeing Carl’s interview with ChooseFi. I congratulate them for being courageous for showing up at the interview. Thanks Ramit
As someone who hosts cycling trips, I've found that the people who focus the most on price get the least from the experience. But those who bring enthusiasm and understand that lasting memories are often intentionally cultivated take away the most. It sounds like Mindy and Carl are starting to understand the opportunity cost of optimizing.
I'm here because of BiggerPockets Money and Mile High FI podcasts. Glad I checked it out. I can't believe how tough these questions were and how vulnerable the two of you were. Hats off.
This was my favorite episode! I’ve been going through the podcasts for the last few months…when I saw Mindy, I knew this was going to be good! I love Bigger Pockets! Ramit really showcased his skill in this episode. He is gentle, but straight to the point with money psychology! Way to go!
It’s hard to explain…when you’ve been in the habit of saving , saving , saving and you’ve been doing it for so long , it’s not the number . My condo and car are paid off , I have zero debt and high six figures in the bank . I can’t bring myself to buy a case a coke ! It’s seems so wasteful to me ! There’s a pair of sneakers I REALLY want but I can’t bring myself to spend 200 dollars for them . It’s so ridiculous, I won’t even run my AC in condo unless my dog is panting . I know , I know . Crazy I grew up very poor and was homeless as a teenager . It’s just hard . It’s easy to relate to this couple, even though some people think it’s crazy .
If spending is hard for them, can you imagine how hard it is for spenders to become frugals? They have it easy, just need to add a categorie for guilty free spending in their budget and that's it. We need to understand how hard could be to change your mindset. Thanks Mindy and Carl for opening yourselves like that. Following Money Bigger Pockets since episode 1. Totally love what u do. Awesome episode.
Bottom line, it's really hard to switch gears from saving and being frugal, to being comfortable with spending large sums of money with no qualms. I can relate. I'm certainly not at financial independence, but I know I would be in the same boat. It is a lifetime habit and I'm not sure I even want to break it. However, I have learned to look at my finances a little differently and see that I do have enough to spend a little more on experiences now.
This episode seems odd. Don't they know their yearly budget? I guess they having trouble spending it, I don't understand. I guess they will figure it out.
What a full circle moment. I remember when Ramit was on the biggerpockets money podcast and Mindy was very vulnerable about her attitude to money. Not listened to this episode yet but I hope they've gone on that awesome cycling trip Mindy vividly described.
Honestly, as a member of the FIRE community, how others spend their money really wouldn't get them kicked out of the community. I don't think of the FIRE as necessarily even frugal. We like to be *intentional*. Spend the money that will bring you joy and value into your life. That is decision only the individual can make and thus, how much they choose to spend for a vacation or for wardrobe or for a meal while on vacation doesn't at all impact how serious they are about being part of the community. I obviously am not everyone in FIRE, but mostly, I think the community just doesn't care what others are doing/spending and they are much more interested in making the best decisions for themselves.
This was an awesome episode. I LOVE that they hired someone to hang those DAMN DOORS! And, I know it takes so much bravery to come on a show like this when you’re well known in an industry such as Fi. I also appreciate how Ramit helps us learn to live now, while we are accumulating wealth. You can make smart choices with money and still live fully now. They are not independent of each other. The video follow ups were cool!
Ramit, I'd like to see you talk to couples who have a lot of money and spend it well. I'd be interested to see how high earners can spend meaningfully on things they love.
Final comment 😂 Ramit I love your approach, you’re not only beast mode with money but also you have an understanding for human psychology. You sound just like a psychotherapist (and that’s a compliment) which is what I think most people need to be able to utilize their resources for a wealthy future. “Spending money meaningfully” is the key. That was wonderfully said Ramit! ❤
Wow, I started listening to BP in 2017 and this is so great to see Mindy and her husband here on IWT. The BP Money episode was great, but I think this will go into even greater depths within their spending “troubles”.
God that last little comment from Mindy said "I still want to go on the bike ride" right before the cut to the follow-ups was just raw emotion. I am so hopeful for them. They have worked hard and have earned a life of fulfillment.
I fell into the FIRE trap about 10 years ago - I even remember Mindy's blog! FIRE suited my money style: my parents were Depression kids, I had times as an adult where I had to live very, very cheaply (almost went on welfare) ... the FIRE dream of financial independence excited me. Then I got a very good job, good income, fun work (for me) with a great team and fantastic boss - suddenly I didn't want to retire. And the cracks in FIRE began to show. I redefined FIRE to "Live as frugally as possible, so you can save and invest enough to retire ... and continue to live as frugally as possible." For the past few years I have been spending more. I'm not financially independent, I love my job so I'm happy to work as long as I can. I *can* spend a lot more than my frugal "normal", so I'm training myself to do that. I'm not up to extensive travel, but last time I flew across the country to visit family, I bought domestic first class ticket. No points, no 3 layover redeyes. It was the first time I enjoyed flying in decades.
I understand their mindset, I grew up very poor and I have had a relatively successful life. Spending is hard for me but I am learning to enjoy having money and spending it on things to make myself and my husband have a great time. For his 40th birthday we rented his dream car, Morgan 2-seater and toured Wales. It was amazing and 6 years later we still talk about that trip. Another trip I want to plan is a driving tour of Basque France and Spain in a Citroen DS, I have started my research and I bet it will be amazing. Someone asked me about the trip and the cost and honestly I had to go look as the cost was erased from my mind. The amazing Jaipur mushroom dish and crashing an Indian wedding in Malvern and dancing all night? That I will never forget!
This is one of the most fascinating episodes. Mindy and Carl, don't be hard on yourselves! It sounds like you just want to be comfortable with splurging on something once in a while that you love and feel okay with it because it will enrich your life. But you have great values and Mindy I love your podcast and have even more respect for you for sharing on this one.
This is such an impactful episode! Thank you Mindy and Carl for sharing from the heart. I believe I know how emotional this was for you to share with us. I love BP Money!
I think $99 is a lot for breakfast but I don’t have their net worth either. That said, it’s hard for them to enjoy it, relax and have fun and that’s a tough lesson. I do admire this couple they are very honest with their feelings, and how they feel it and even that’s hard to do. I really enjoyed Mindy.
That breakfast would have to have gold sprinkled on it that's alot for breakfast but on the other hand they can afford it sounds once in a while so enjoy good listening
Hi Ramit. When you have couples that are well off or have become wealthy but are struggling to find happiness, can you also have a discussion with them on how they built their wealth? It would help a lot of us.
Look up the FIRE movement. There are a bunch of helpful podcasts and blogs out there. The main tenants are put in hard work up front and save 50% or more of your income. Some of the subtenants to do this are to be frugal (cut back on material things and minimize/optimize fixed costs), invest (usually in low cost, total market ETFs/funds), and increase your pay (through promotions, side hustles, passive income, investment properties, etc). It's pretty solid as it puts time on your side to build wealth, but some (not all) in the FIRE movement forget to live during the accumulation phase and struggle once they have hit their goal, especially if frugality is their main vehicle to that savings rate.
I yelled at my phone when she said, "well, I'm a grandchild of the depression." Honey, almost everyone your age born in this country is a grandchild of the depression. That's just an excuse to keep you from changing. My grandparents who were raised in the depression would be rolling their eyes at you.
And being two generations removed, it's a pretty extreme case to make about your money habits. At what point are you no longer a product of something that happened nearly 100 years ago?
@@factorfitness3713Both good and bad events change a person’s DNA. Those changes are then passed onto their children potentially. There’s actually a whole field of genetics dedicated to determining what can and cannot be passed on. In fact, we are discovering that genetics plays a bigger role than we ever thought. So when events like the depression change our DNA, it very much does pass onto the following generation.
This episode has created so much discussion in our house. There are many points that match up from Mindy and Carl's situation to our own lives. How do we make the switch from a saving focus to a spending focus? The math part is pretty simple, it's just math. It is the gut check emotion and life long habits that are the tough part. We are now both retired as of this month and really working hard to live our rich life. Even when we both agree on the big parts it is a challenge to find our way through the small parts. We have made some quick changes after watching this episode and there are more to come. "What would Ramit say" is now a phrase we use. Great episode!
I started following Carl's blog about 10 years ago and they really inpired me to live a bit more frugally and I've been introduced to several other bloggers which have helped me change my habits and introduced me to a different way of thinking. I actually didn't know she was the Mindy from Bigger Pockets. I absolutely loved this podcast episode and am so glad they did a deep dive into their hearts. It was really great interview, Ramit. I'm so glad they chose to start having experiences like going to Hawaii and that Alaskan cruise, I was like yes!!! Do it!
What a way to self reflect for both of them! Loads of difficult questions and opening yourselves up like that for the rest of us to hear is incredible 👏! Thank you both.
My husband retired 6 months ago. I'm so happy to have him home everyday. We haven't even thought about spending any of our money. We're just happy having time together. I know we will spend some money on ourselves sometime in the upcoming near future but, flipping the switch from saving to spending still seems unreal.
I love the perspective in this episode. So so valueable these conversations, especially for people who are also well on their way on their path to FIRE
I would love to see you do a podcast that takes this idea, but moves it to the context of old couples who are trying to decide whether or how to spend limited savings (say 500K) in light up the unknowns of paying for their old age care (nursing home / assisted living).
Agreed, this would be an excellent show idea ! Many people may be ‘saving’ for unexpected health surprises. Our society is not the healthiest and it’s reasonable to expect a terminal diagnosis could upset the Apple cart . A 50 year old friend of ours was recently diagnosed with cancer . Living in CA , with a non working spouse could Mount a lot of stress on the already Ill person on , ‘how can I afford treatment without going bankrupt. ‘ Along with money , “health brings a freedom , few people realize , until they no longer have it “ Health and financial fitness are both important to equip our children with .
You are 100% correct that more money does not change the way you view money. One of the main reasons I watch is because I get to listen people who have similar stories to myself. I grew up lower middle class, paycheck-to-paycheck, and my husband middle class with frugal parents. However, we pursued education and opportunities, leaving our home country for a while, and both became high earners. My husband is now a very high earner (mid-7 figures) and we also had a huge liquidity event this year. I can relate to a lot of your guests who have difficulty making the mental leap to buying back their time. There is a lot of guilt in hiring people to do things you are perfectly capable of doing yourself (and arguably have the time to do). It feels wasteful and almost humiliating, even though buying back time is easily the best use of money. I also relate to choosing to live a smaller life than I have to. Why do we do this? Lots to think about. I am reading your book so hoping for some more a-ha moments like this. So far the podcast has been immensely helpful. Thank you!
I'm happy they realized the true meaning of life. It's not about the money it's about what the money can give you. I must say the couple are looking more relieved and relaxed. i.e. less stressed 😊
I see myself in Mindy and Carl. I lost my inheritance money. Went back from scratch but through hard work, discipline, and perseverance I get back the money I lost. My problem now is how to loosen up the belt a little bit without worrying about going back to zero again. This is so insightful 🥺 I'm still having a hard time after watching this video but I'll keep trying.
What are you optimizing for? As a fellow person who achieved FI and a life long optimizer, a friend changed my life with this simple reframing. Nothing wrong with being an optimizer, but reframe what you're optimizing for. We no longer need to optimize for saving and efficiency, but can optimize for living a rich life... This simple shift has been lifechanging for me... Enjoyed the video!
These guys honestly i understand when you’ve been in that mindset so long how hard it is to change. I think Ramit asking what’s the why was so important for them to realise what not changing was taking away from them. You have all the money but what about the time, experience and fun memories. You guys are lucky that you have the wealth and can have both ❤ great episode 😊
I like that Carl held his ground . Clearly they have changes to make but clearly also not a failure . There’s a lot of ground between being rich but not maximizing your enjoyment and being a failure .
Hahaha this whole episode I was like an old man shouting at the TV going HIRE SOMEONE TO HANG THE DAMN DOORS!!!!!!!!!! I was so relieved when Mindy revealed at the end that they did get someone to do it.
Great episode. It hits home for me - my wife and I are planning an anniversary trip for later this year, and for the first time ever, we splurged on first class plane tickets and a suite at the hotel. I definitely hesitated (and hesitated again) before clicking the button to confirm the purchase. We can develop some really terrific saving muscles. But we also need to develop some spending and giving muscles as well.
This is a real issue in their situation, where investments have grown beyond what they need to achieve FI. It must be hard to switch to a mindset of financial abundance. But let's not pretend that their frugality was a mistake. They saved aggressively and spent lavishly on buying their financial Freedom. And buying your freedom is my definition of a "rich life."
I agree that buying freedom is th ultimate luxury, much better than a $99 breakfast out or a brand new car. Their frugality and work habits got them to an incredible position.
This is a thought provoking episode. I’m 76 but about their age financially. With the exception of groceries I rarely consider “cost” when making a purchase. I bought a bike recently- I got the most bike of the least weight at what appeared to be a fair price. I ride it. I love it. I think I have all the money I will ever need. The boat I bought last year. I wanted the smallest, newest, fastest, easiest-to-maintain that fit on my lift that I could purchase easily. I found it. I bought it. I love it.
Thanks for listening. This podcast is for couples, but I'd invite you to join iwt.com/moneycoaching, where I do Q&A each month (often with single people).
I am 42 and my hubby is 40, this episode has made me realize maybe I will never be rich because we do save some money and we have no debt but I really really care about being beautiful and as you get older it just gets more and more expensive to look beautiful and young and I don’t think I can give that up. Oh wow their kids are each two years younger then our two kids
For me, it's your best episode that made me hold a mirror up to myself. I've been following Carl's blog while he was on the 1500 days hunt which tracked my plan as well. Like them, when the dashboard lit up with achieving the FI goal, nothing changed in my habits, we continued to save and invest. I like how you peeled back the layers and zoned in on helping them realize that creating experiences with the family will help the transition to allocating their assets to experiences and creating memories. I'd like to see a few more episodes that pull this thread. Your interviewing skills are exceptional and help deliver the payload of behavioral changes. Thanks.
It’s very important how FIRE was achieved. If it was done via frugality, then you won’t be able to enjoy it just like this couple. Definitely need to work towards FIRE while living your desired standard of living. Although mathematically improbable, the fear of running out of money is very real.
I’m happy for mindy and Carl and I would love to follow their progress! Mindy and bigger pockets has made an enormous difference in our lives. Good luck Mindy and Carl!! 🩷🩷
This was terrific. It must have been difficult for them, as they’re somewhat public, advising and hearing from others. Nice work, I commend your bravery.
As with other episodes, the second half is inspiring! I was worried when I heard about the chagrin over a $20 breakfast... but the Hawaii trip convinced me that these two are starting to focus on what matters (creating lasting memories with their teens). Those times don't last forever, and how special to reframe their focus on appreciating the present with family.
Loved one of your episodes on her podcast and it's so awesome you got her to come on your show with her husband! Thank you so much for another great episode. This is my favorite episode by far. Absolutely amazing to see them wrestle with changing such a fundamental belief they've had for decades. It was particularly interesting when they talked about turning 80 and how they would have no way to spend all their money. My father is 80 and can barely walk, all the money in the world won't help him do what he wishes he could do. Also so glad they got help hanging doors in their house, at age 50 they are still hanging doors?!
Unfortunately there seems more money made in pushing frugality/FIRE than in using money to help you create a meaningful life for yourself and others. One of the reasons why Ramit is successful is because he has a unique perspective which I wish was more common!
Well played, Ramit! A counterargument to toxic frugality I've heard elsewhere is that if you hold onto your money too long, you'll be frail, or in a nursing home, or absent of too many faculties to ever enjoy it--and possibly all of those things. Even healthy nest eggs have an expiration date. That said, getting the save/spend balance right is an art that often takes a lifetime to master.
I’ve been following FI content for years. I usually listen to the podcast, when I heard Mindy’s voice I switched to video. Thank you, Mindy and Carl, for being vulnerable enough to come onto this show. It was a really great discussion. Ramit has definitely made me look harder at some FI ideas through this podcast. Keep up the great work.
I recently went from making $25,000 a year to $60,000. My numbers are much lower than this couple, but I see some of my self in the relationship they have with their money. This was a really helpful discussion for me to hear.
It’s got me to thinking of how I should be spending my money. I’m not at the level. They are not at all, but I do fairly decently, so I think my thoughts is how to be kinder to myself in those waves that are may be more self-care.
I came to see the video follow up as suggested. It is awesome seeing the person sharing their thoughts. I want to watch on here occasionally too! I enjoy these conversations so much. Thank you for opening our minds-whether we’re in debt or financially wealthy. 🎉so fun!
I loved this one. Priceless opportunity to learn from the experience of Carl and Mindy. They have done the most difficult part already and yet they are modest and willing to be vulnerable in order to improve. Respect!
Honestly a game changer of an episode. The challenge of moving from accumulation to spending is real, especially with those in the FIRE mindset. Ramit was very intense with this couple….hopefully it was helpful to move them into the action/spend phase
This one sat differently with me. My parents worked so hard their entire lives to build up a sizable nest egg. After having four daughters and working till retirement, they were both excited to spend some of their life savings traveling, which is something they never did prior due to work schedules and prioritizing their children first. Once retired, their parents got sick and they postponed travel to take care of them. Then my dad passed suddenly and my mom developed Lewy Body Dementia one year later. Now, as my sisters and I take care of our ailing mom, we are spending their savings that they worked so hard for on the best care that we can possibly find for her. Such an eye-opening process to work hard, but also know how to live your rich life before it’s too late.
The end where Ramit talks about how he first spent money was really true. He wanted an outcome and experience that he could afford in the long run. Thats so interesting.
@ 1:00:30 “how do I give her more of these experiences ?” You spend money to travel 😍 Credit card churn for airline miles /free flights if it makes you more comfortable . “Travel is the only thing you can buy that will make you richer." Chef Erick Snover
I’m kind of the same way, luckily my wife is slightly more reasonable. I get a reminder every once in a while to not to just keep squirreling everything away for the distant future. Neither of us are perfect with money but together we are more balanced.
i am also very frugal trying to achieve financial freedom and realized its an issue...i have started to spend more but felt i still need to improve focusing on what brings value and joy....and not focusing on the dollar. i think being balanced is the best
0:00 Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
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I’m fascinated with the work you have done with folks and getting them to understand how money works and how to understand the effects. The realization of them getting it or even admit there’s an issue and they make the progress to a richer life. I need that help, we need that help.
Congratulations on achieving your goals and looking at what is important/ worth spending money to experience! Thanks for sharing!
I respect Mindy and the FIRE community, my understanding of FIRE is being efficient and frugal and not necessarily being cheap. I don’t like that you’re kind of shaming them for not being wasteful. I only spend money on things that brings me joy and not just spending because I have it. I search for best value and don’t pay more I should in time and money, I call it being efficient.
They don't seems to carve out any time for leisure. They could set aside an account for leisure and that would take their insuritites away. I can Identify but they have to shift their mind set from frugal to cautious spenders on experiences.
@Ramit im wondering if maybe you missed something really important at 47.25 min, Carl is telling that his friends told him he should do it. So I thought maybe because his friends agree with it and approve this money spending, he doesn't feel bad about it
This weirdly reminds me of purity culture in the sense that evangelical kids are taught anything remotely sexual is BAD, but once they're married they're expected to immediately embrace their sexuality. Seems like there's a similar gap in FIRE where people need to learn how to enjoy and get comfortable with spending, rather than saving up all this money to do nothing more than protect it, like a jealous dragon crouching over it's hoard. Props to Mindy and Carl for their willingness to share this vulnerable topic with all of us!
Extremely insightful comment. Thank you
cool / interesting analogy
Very interesting! I like that analogy.
Oh my goodness! Terrible correlation… am a product of purity culture, didn’t kiss my husband until the wedding day. But had no issues in the bedroom at all from our first night to today 19 years later! Haha!!! Purity culture is far less harmful than free for all sex! Nothing to do at all with money!
@@cagr9334 you being a product of purity culture doesn't invalidate the experiences of others. some people do FIRE movement and don't struggle with their transition away from 'saver mode'. It's a great analogy.
When my aunt died about 6 years ago she was living in abject poverty in a house with no central heating and threadbare furniture. After her will was read and her assets were drawn together it turned out she was worth a fortune, but she had been too scared to spend the money, because 'what if.....' It was her fear of spending money that eventually killed her. You can't take it with you when you go, and you should enjoy some it on experiences that enhance your life and bring you together with your friends and family. Surely that's why it was saved, so that you could enjoy those years, not spend it still living in fear of where every penny goes.
We had an uncle like that too.
I think it's scary to think that you might be without money in your old age when you cannot work as when you were young
@@AstorSkywalker I totally agree, and I can understand why people might decide to keep the money in the bank rather than living at least a basic standard of living. But there's a balance. I mean, having a ton of money in the bank and living without central heating or enough food to live on isn't a fair trade when the whole point of the money is for it to look after you when you can't work. It's getting the balance right whilst also planning for the future. It's tricky.
😮 wow, how sad 😖
Did she grow up in poverty by any chance? I've noticed this behavior in people that grow up poor and start to amass wealth, of course, it doesn't apply to everyone that grew up that way. Honestly, it's really heartbreaking that she died that way, i'm sorry.
I don't know how to explain it, but this was the episode that really 'clicked' for me what a Rich Life truly is. I've been following Ramit and IWT since I was a teenager. As a twentysomething now, I really felt that my life was on pause until I would finally hit the amount of income that would cover all of my Rich Life expenses- until I realized that my Rich Life was never about dream trips or fancy clothes or hiring a personal trainer. Am I valuing experiences and relationships and health now? Is my money going towards those values now, or what I think I *should* be doing? My idea of a Rich Life isn't a set of experiences/material items I want and then I have to guess what that means in terms of 'what I value'. I need to determine what I value first and then put money/time into those values at my current income.
I know it's silly, but I thought that 'travel' was a value. I now realize that my values when I was dreaming up these trips were 'relationships', 'continuous learning and exploring', 'rest', and 'good food'. I can still put money and time into these values even if I can't afford a three month trip around Europe yet. And while I save for that goal, I won't oscillate between feast and famine. This is what it means to live a Rich Life at any income.
Great episode. Thank you Ramit, Mindy, and Carl!
Yes! Good point about the values. Very interesting. Glad you shared.
Great point, we can live our values without blowing a bunch of money on luxury. Some of Ramit's interviews with wealthy people seem to be about getting then to spend more on luxury goods and services. But for some of us, we don't have an excess money problem (yet), and it's more about living well with what we have.
That’s a great point about traveling. People act like I’m crazy when I say I don’t like traveling. I know how to get those experiences and still sleep in my own bed at night.
Love this!
Wow! great insight.
The idea Ramit said that “there’s some waste in every system” has stuck with me. I repeat this to myself often when it comes to purchases that aren’t super efficient, like I could probably find this cheaper on Amazon, but I’m holding this in the store so I’ll just get it now. It helps me not optimize everything.
Completly agree. Also, your time is valuable.
When I discovered entropy in my studies (I’m not a brainiac but I like to read) I never forgot this concept. I see it everywhere. Now latriy I know what opportunity cost is and I see it in dating, art, job choice and of course it’s origin; financial choices
Can we please have more episodes like this one with Mindy and Carl? People who know what they’re doing (like what a Roth is for) but still have interesting mindset challenges around money?
They are more relatable for those of us who already have our stuff together :)
Ramit, I read your book 8 years ago before launching my career. I want to see more advanced case studies :)
"The more money I have, the more meaning I get to create in adventurous ways". Ramit, that is so powerful. Thank you.
I can relate to this. I turned 50 few months back. Our net worth is 6.5M. I used to drive a 2007 Honda civic, so my wife gifted me a Tesla model X which is about $110k. I was honestly horrified and upset with my wife for such a frivolous purchase. It also came as a surprise because she also is quite frugal. I still have my civic which i use as my primary car and take the Model X occasionally. It’s been over 8 months and I still feel guilty driving it. I am an immigrant raised in the slums of India. I got my phd in US, started a company and sold it when I was 45. I am still working not just because I enjoy it but because of my mindset. I have a constant fear that I may lose everything. My sister who is a physician, also has a similar networth and has a very similar mindset as me. It’s a real struggle for us to spend money!
Try random acts of kindness, like paying for a strangers meal at a restaurant. Think of the cost of the Tesla as “a good day in the market” and train yourself to enjoy it some days and it’s ok to feel guilty about it on the others just like how the market goes up one day and down the next. 110k swing daily is probably common in your investments I’d say…
@@weswest8666 the daily fluctuations in the market are closer to 35-40k, because almost 50% of my portfolio is invested in real estate. But I see your point. It is actually easier for me to spend money on other people. For example the first thing I bought when I had some money was a house for my parents. It was my moms dream to have running water in the house! I also helped pay for my sisters education till she got her residency. I instituted a scholarship in my grandfathers name at my school that helps pay for the education for the top 5 kids from the school. Problem is when we want to enjoy our money. We have never flown business class. Our clothes and most of the other stuff is from Target. My oldest son who is in HS wanted $400 Air Jordans, which I refused because I thought it was ridiculous! At the same time I have over $150k in each of my sons 529. It’s a real problem for me to splurge on something. That’s why I could instantly relate to this couple.
I understand your fear of losing everything. I have the same fear.
Maybe you can deduct 2 million (as a margin of safety) from your networth, then calculate the annual spending you can have at 4% and force yourself to spend it on whatever nonsense? If you cant spend all of it that year, you will need to spend the accumulated unspent money next year or you will get some negative consequence?
That is 15k a month. Please please please buy your son the air Jordan. If you keep rejecting a teenager material goods they dying to have, they will end up becoming a hyper-spending adults. You can explicitly tell him it’s just a one time splurge to manage his future expectation.
I also recommend you to read the book “die with zero” which I read recently. It’s mind blowing. Although I am only in the wealth accumulation stage, it already striked me way more than I expected and changed how I looked at wealth accumulation.
It must have been difficult for your frugal wife to spend so extravagantly on you! Excellent work on her part! One aspect of thanking her is actually using and enjoying the gift and letting her enjoy your joy in it.
This resonates with me. We got out of debt a few years ago and have been saving ever since. With a comfortable amount saved, its hard to loosen the reins a bit and learn how to spend. I recently got a promotion and my husband and I sat down to talk about where the extra money could go. We decided to put money aside each month to eat out and to take a small trip and do something fun with our kids. Feels good to be able to enjoy life and not stress about every dollar. Ramit has changed my thinking about how money is handled in our home. ❤
Omg! Ramit asks amazing questions honestly. You're like a money therapist 🤔
He’s a genius lol
I can TOTALLY relate. My husband and I live in expensive CA. We are still working in our early 60's because even with $4M+ it never feels like enough. We have investment properties, a Dollar General Grocery Store, a vacation home, our main residence, and about $1M in our retirement accounts. With the economy, and fluctuating stocks, we never feel, ever, like we have enough. We both still work, and do our own home improvement/gardening, much of the time. Sometimes we hire things out because we are too busy working, or we are just too old to feel good doing it anymore. We have a 26 yo son who owns his own home and is doing well, but is always to busy to spend any vacation with us - kind of like the Jim Croche song. Makes me wish I could have seen the forest through the trees while he still was young, so we could have taken some time to make experiences and memories with him. Now it all just seems too late.
It’s not too late, but you need to stop worrying and have some fun. The money is being wasted.
I think in ten years you would think the same thing about yourself right now, that you wish you enjoyed life now.
I loved hearing Carl report back and listening to all the wonderful experiences he is going to have with his family. Well done Mindy and Carl, enjoy the money you have clearly worked hard to accumulate. Life is too short!
Me, too! Loved this so much!
I feel like since FIRE has become a thing, people are getting financial anorexia. 20 bucks badly spent haunt me for days now.
I think the fact that most common people have to be that concerned over $20 these days in order to secure their financial future is an indication of the overall failures of our governments to build economic systems that actually work for the working class.
We should be frugal, yes, but the level of frugality that is required is severe for a lot of people and it really shouldn’t be that way.
That's why it is crucial to have a budget that has plenty of wiggle room. I don't really ever eat out, maybe one beer with friends and one date (I pay). So I have $125 in my Restaurant category.
There is no fear over $10 difference in meal, I can leave a sizeable tip, and it's purely guilt-free - I spent the money on what I wanted to spend the money on.
Financial Independence is about enabling you to spend money without working a traditional job. It should be spending-focused, just very deliberate about where your money goes.
'financial anorexia' well-said 👏
$4.3 mil not be relatable to most people - but the episode has so many pearls. Love your philosophy on spending money on your rich life. Thanks Ramit!
Money psychology is the most fascinating type of psychology 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
It really isn’t if you know other psychology. If you know that it’s just habit formation. It’s the same as quitting smoking. Boring.
I want to hear from Mindy and Carl on the regular! Their Bigger Pockets podcast was all about accumulating the bigger pockets, but now that they have bigger pockets, I want to hear from them about how they LIVE with bigger pockets. I want to hear THOSE struggles and challenges TOO!
I knew I recognized her immediately! Wow
I have huge respect for Carl and Mindy. Actually, I started my Fi journey after seeing Carl’s interview with ChooseFi. I congratulate them for being courageous for showing up at the interview.
Thanks Ramit
So proud of them for reaching fi now they get to live the dream life.
@@MikeHawk143 They don't even know what the dream life is. It was a sad interview.
@@old_ladyhustler727 Remit puts in quite a dramatic show. I wished they spoke of a yearly budget to spend.
As someone who hosts cycling trips, I've found that the people who focus the most on price get the least from the experience. But those who bring enthusiasm and understand that lasting memories are often intentionally cultivated take away the most. It sounds like Mindy and Carl are starting to understand the opportunity cost of optimizing.
Exactly this. Money is only as good as what you get out of it. Spend it well and you won't need regret.
I'm here because of BiggerPockets Money and Mile High FI podcasts. Glad I checked it out. I can't believe how tough these questions were and how vulnerable the two of you were. Hats off.
This was my favorite episode! I’ve been going through the podcasts for the last few months…when I saw Mindy, I knew this was going to be good! I love Bigger Pockets! Ramit really showcased his skill in this episode. He is gentle, but straight to the point with money psychology! Way to go!
It’s hard to explain…when you’ve been in the habit of saving , saving , saving and you’ve been doing it for so long , it’s not the number .
My condo and car are paid off , I have zero debt and high six figures in the bank .
I can’t bring myself to buy a case a coke ! It’s seems so wasteful to me ! There’s a pair of sneakers I REALLY want but I can’t bring myself to spend 200 dollars for them . It’s so ridiculous, I won’t even run my AC in condo unless my dog is panting . I know , I know . Crazy
I grew up very poor and was homeless as a teenager . It’s just hard .
It’s easy to relate to this couple, even though some people think it’s crazy .
If spending is hard for them, can you imagine how hard it is for spenders to become frugals? They have it easy, just need to add a categorie for guilty free spending in their budget and that's it. We need to understand how hard could be to change your mindset. Thanks Mindy and Carl for opening yourselves like that. Following Money Bigger Pockets since episode 1. Totally love what u do. Awesome episode.
You’d be surprised. Even with a “guilt free” category, I can’t help but think “I’m going to try to not spend it all to save what remains”
@@Erepk yeah, the joy comes from maximizing savings. Like getting a high score in a game.
It seems easy from our perspective but it's never easy to completely rewire your brain to break habits that you've had for so long.
@@Erepk I ended up moving Guilt Free spending up above Savings and renamed it Random Splurges.
Bottom line, it's really hard to switch gears from saving and being frugal, to being comfortable with spending large sums of money with no qualms. I can relate. I'm certainly not at financial independence, but I know I would be in the same boat. It is a lifetime habit and I'm not sure I even want to break it. However, I have learned to look at my finances a little differently and see that I do have enough to spend a little more on experiences now.
My heart goes out to Mindy! to be so vulnerable here when she"s the expert in the FIRE community.
This episode seems odd. Don't they know their yearly budget? I guess they having trouble spending it, I don't understand. I guess they will figure it out.
@@MikeHawk143 When someone or a couple has an unlimited budget and a scarcity mindset, they almost never do.
No they certainly do, the both semi famous FI, real estate podcast hosts.
What a full circle moment. I remember when Ramit was on the biggerpockets money podcast and Mindy was very vulnerable about her attitude to money.
Not listened to this episode yet but I hope they've gone on that awesome cycling trip Mindy vividly described.
I remember that episode too 😅
Same. wanted to even make this comment.@@mauriciosueros599
Retired last year.
52 years old.
Learning to spend is weird. Not easy.
This is probably the best episode you've done. Really enjoyed all 3 of you in this ep.
Honestly, as a member of the FIRE community, how others spend their money really wouldn't get them kicked out of the community. I don't think of the FIRE as necessarily even frugal. We like to be *intentional*. Spend the money that will bring you joy and value into your life. That is decision only the individual can make and thus, how much they choose to spend for a vacation or for wardrobe or for a meal while on vacation doesn't at all impact how serious they are about being part of the community. I obviously am not everyone in FIRE, but mostly, I think the community just doesn't care what others are doing/spending and they are much more interested in making the best decisions for themselves.
This was an awesome episode. I LOVE that they hired someone to hang those DAMN DOORS! And, I know it takes so much bravery to come on a show like this when you’re well known in an industry such as Fi. I also appreciate how Ramit helps us learn to live now, while we are accumulating wealth. You can make smart choices with money and still live fully now. They are not independent of each other. The video follow ups were cool!
Ramit, I'd like to see you talk to couples who have a lot of money and spend it well. I'd be interested to see how high earners can spend meaningfully on things they love.
Final comment 😂
Ramit I love your approach, you’re not only beast mode with money but also you have an understanding for human psychology. You sound just like a psychotherapist (and that’s a compliment) which is what I think most people need to be able to utilize their resources for a wealthy future.
“Spending money meaningfully” is the key. That was wonderfully said Ramit! ❤
Wow, I started listening to BP in 2017 and this is so great to see Mindy and her husband here on IWT. The BP Money episode was great, but I think this will go into even greater depths within their spending “troubles”.
"spending troubles", I like that phrase.
Thanks! I didn’t want to use the term bad spending habits. I think that explains their situation well.
Have a great day!
I love how they’ve applied the coaching and are finding joy in changing and sharing their wealth!
God that last little comment from Mindy said "I still want to go on the bike ride" right before the cut to the follow-ups was just raw emotion. I am so hopeful for them. They have worked hard and have earned a life of fulfillment.
Probably one of the most powerful episodes. Like I'm learning so much about partnership, synergy and learning how to live a balanced rich life
I fell into the FIRE trap about 10 years ago - I even remember Mindy's blog! FIRE suited my money style: my parents were Depression kids, I had times as an adult where I had to live very, very cheaply (almost went on welfare) ... the FIRE dream of financial independence excited me.
Then I got a very good job, good income, fun work (for me) with a great team and fantastic boss - suddenly I didn't want to retire. And the cracks in FIRE began to show. I redefined FIRE to "Live as frugally as possible, so you can save and invest enough to retire ... and continue to live as frugally as possible."
For the past few years I have been spending more. I'm not financially independent, I love my job so I'm happy to work as long as I can. I *can* spend a lot more than my frugal "normal", so I'm training myself to do that. I'm not up to extensive travel, but last time I flew across the country to visit family, I bought domestic first class ticket. No points, no 3 layover redeyes. It was the first time I enjoyed flying in decades.
I have no words to say what this episode has meant to me Ramit.Thanks from the bottom of my heart.
I understand their mindset, I grew up very poor and I have had a relatively successful life. Spending is hard for me but I am learning to enjoy having money and spending it on things to make myself and my husband have a great time. For his 40th birthday we rented his dream car, Morgan 2-seater and toured Wales. It was amazing and 6 years later we still talk about that trip. Another trip I want to plan is a driving tour of Basque France and Spain in a Citroen DS, I have started my research and I bet it will be amazing. Someone asked me about the trip and the cost and honestly I had to go look as the cost was erased from my mind. The amazing Jaipur mushroom dish and crashing an Indian wedding in Malvern and dancing all night? That I will never forget!
This is one of the most fascinating episodes. Mindy and Carl, don't be hard on yourselves! It sounds like you just want to be comfortable with splurging on something once in a while that you love and feel okay with it because it will enrich your life. But you have great values and Mindy I love your podcast and have even more respect for you for sharing on this one.
That's why I love a budget. If my budget reflects my values, vision, and plans, then it tells me what I can safely spend...so spend it!
Exactly
💯
This is such an impactful episode! Thank you Mindy and Carl for sharing from the heart. I believe I know how emotional this was for you to share with us. I love BP Money!
I think $99 is a lot for breakfast but I don’t have their net worth either.
That said, it’s hard for them to enjoy it, relax and have fun and that’s a tough lesson.
I do admire this couple they are very honest with their feelings, and how they feel it and even that’s hard to do. I really enjoyed Mindy.
$99 is a lot for breakfast for the majority of people on planet earth, including me.
I don’t see myself paying $99 for breakfast even if I had the money.
@@julistar9099$ after tip for 2 teens and 2 adults is a lot but if a nice breakfast place and everyone got drinks it's not that unusual
That breakfast would have to have gold sprinkled on it that's alot for breakfast but on the other hand they can afford it sounds once in a while so enjoy good listening
$99 is a lot for breakfast anywhere in the world for anyone
Hi Ramit. When you have couples that are well off or have become wealthy but are struggling to find happiness, can you also have a discussion with them on how they built their wealth? It would help a lot of us.
Look up the FIRE movement. There are a bunch of helpful podcasts and blogs out there. The main tenants are put in hard work up front and save 50% or more of your income.
Some of the subtenants to do this are to be frugal (cut back on material things and minimize/optimize fixed costs), invest (usually in low cost, total market ETFs/funds), and increase your pay (through promotions, side hustles, passive income, investment properties, etc).
It's pretty solid as it puts time on your side to build wealth, but some (not all) in the FIRE movement forget to live during the accumulation phase and struggle once they have hit their goal, especially if frugality is their main vehicle to that savings rate.
Mindy Jensen has her own podcast. Google her. She’s well-know in this FIRE community.
@@rafaelw8115 Why the f do you care? Mind your own godamn business. I didnt ask for your silly opinion or view.
I yelled at my phone when she said, "well, I'm a grandchild of the depression." Honey, almost everyone your age born in this country is a grandchild of the depression. That's just an excuse to keep you from changing. My grandparents who were raised in the depression would be rolling their eyes at you.
And being two generations removed, it's a pretty extreme case to make about your money habits. At what point are you no longer a product of something that happened nearly 100 years ago?
@@factorfitness3713Both good and bad events change a person’s DNA. Those changes are then passed onto their children potentially. There’s actually a whole field of genetics dedicated to determining what can and cannot be passed on. In fact, we are discovering that genetics plays a bigger role than we ever thought. So when events like the depression change our DNA, it very much does pass onto the following generation.
I love this episode. I’ve watched Mindy for a while and I love how vulnerable and real she’s being
This episode has created so much discussion in our house. There are many points that match up from Mindy and Carl's situation to our own lives. How do we make the switch from a saving focus to a spending focus? The math part is pretty simple, it's just math. It is the gut check emotion and life long habits that are the tough part. We are now both retired as of this month and really working hard to live our rich life. Even when we both agree on the big parts it is a challenge to find our way through the small parts. We have made some quick changes after watching this episode and there are more to come. "What would Ramit say" is now a phrase we use. Great episode!
I started following Carl's blog about 10 years ago and they really inpired me to live a bit more frugally and I've been introduced to several other bloggers which have helped me change my habits and introduced me to a different way of thinking. I actually didn't know she was the Mindy from Bigger Pockets. I absolutely loved this podcast episode and am so glad they did a deep dive into their hearts. It was really great interview, Ramit. I'm so glad they chose to start having experiences like going to Hawaii and that Alaskan cruise, I was like yes!!! Do it!
What a way to self reflect for both of them! Loads of difficult questions and opening yourselves up like that for the rest of us to hear is incredible 👏!
Thank you both.
My husband retired 6 months ago. I'm so happy to have him home everyday. We haven't even thought about spending any of our money. We're just happy having time together. I know we will spend some money on ourselves sometime in the upcoming near future but, flipping the switch from saving to spending still seems unreal.
I am overwhelmed by how well they changed and took action after one phone call. Truly well done and inspiring for others!
I love the perspective in this episode. So so valueable these conversations, especially for people who are also well on their way on their path to FIRE
So glad to see they got some help and they're going on a cruise! Sounds like some real progress!
I would love to see you do a podcast that takes this idea, but moves it to the context of old couples who are trying to decide whether or how to spend limited savings (say 500K) in light up the unknowns of paying for their old age care (nursing home / assisted living).
Agreed, this would be an excellent show idea ! Many people may be ‘saving’ for unexpected health surprises. Our society is not the healthiest and it’s reasonable to expect a terminal diagnosis could upset the Apple cart . A 50 year old friend of ours was recently diagnosed with cancer . Living in CA , with a non working spouse could Mount a lot of stress on the already Ill person on , ‘how can I afford treatment without going bankrupt. ‘
Along with money , “health brings a freedom , few people realize , until they no longer have it “
Health and financial fitness are both important to equip our children with .
Yeah remit needs to address old age. People can prepay for old age care and prob a smart idea to prevent unknown stress for self and family.
You are 100% correct that more money does not change the way you view money.
One of the main reasons I watch is because I get to listen people who have similar stories to myself. I grew up lower middle class, paycheck-to-paycheck, and my husband middle class with frugal parents. However, we pursued education and opportunities, leaving our home country for a while, and both became high earners. My husband is now a very high earner (mid-7 figures) and we also had a huge liquidity event this year.
I can relate to a lot of your guests who have difficulty making the mental leap to buying back their time. There is a lot of guilt in hiring people to do things you are perfectly capable of doing yourself (and arguably have the time to do). It feels wasteful and almost humiliating, even though buying back time is easily the best use of money.
I also relate to choosing to live a smaller life than I have to. Why do we do this? Lots to think about. I am reading your book so hoping for some more a-ha moments like this. So far the podcast has been immensely helpful. Thank you!
I'm happy they realized the true meaning of life. It's not about the money it's about what the money can give you.
I must say the couple are looking more relieved and relaxed. i.e. less stressed 😊
I see myself in Mindy and Carl. I lost my inheritance money. Went back from scratch but through hard work, discipline, and perseverance I get back the money I lost. My problem now is how to loosen up the belt a little bit without worrying about going back to zero again. This is so insightful 🥺 I'm still having a hard time after watching this video but I'll keep trying.
What are you optimizing for? As a fellow person who achieved FI and a life long optimizer, a friend changed my life with this simple reframing. Nothing wrong with being an optimizer, but reframe what you're optimizing for. We no longer need to optimize for saving and efficiency, but can optimize for living a rich life... This simple shift has been lifechanging for me... Enjoyed the video!
What an awesome episode. Even when we have enough money it’s hard to let go of it.
These guys honestly i understand when you’ve been in that mindset so long how hard it is to change. I think Ramit asking what’s the why was so important for them to realise what not changing was taking away from them. You have all the money but what about the time, experience and fun memories. You guys are lucky that you have the wealth and can have both ❤ great episode 😊
I like that Carl held his ground . Clearly they have changes to make but clearly also not a failure . There’s a lot of ground between being rich but not maximizing your enjoyment and being a failure .
Been recently going through these episodes and this is my favorite ever. So much lessons and thoughts from this conversation
Hahaha this whole episode I was like an old man shouting at the TV going HIRE SOMEONE TO HANG THE DAMN DOORS!!!!!!!!!! I was so relieved when Mindy revealed at the end that they did get someone to do it.
I was doing the same thing!!
Great episode. It hits home for me - my wife and I are planning an anniversary trip for later this year, and for the first time ever, we splurged on first class plane tickets and a suite at the hotel. I definitely hesitated (and hesitated again) before clicking the button to confirm the purchase.
We can develop some really terrific saving muscles. But we also need to develop some spending and giving muscles as well.
This is a real issue in their situation, where investments have grown beyond what they need to achieve FI. It must be hard to switch to a mindset of financial abundance. But let's not pretend that their frugality was a mistake. They saved aggressively and spent lavishly on buying their financial Freedom. And buying your freedom is my definition of a "rich life."
I agree that buying freedom is th ultimate luxury, much better than a $99 breakfast out or a brand new car. Their frugality and work habits got them to an incredible position.
When you spoke about your daughter's experience in Germany and what she came away with, I got all choked up.
This is a thought provoking episode. I’m 76 but about their age financially. With the exception of groceries I rarely consider “cost” when making a purchase. I bought a bike recently- I got the most bike of the least weight at what appeared to be a fair price. I ride it. I love it.
I think I have all the money I will ever need.
The boat I bought last year. I wanted the smallest, newest, fastest, easiest-to-maintain that fit on my lift that I could purchase easily. I found it. I bought it. I love it.
Hey, Ramit! it would be so nice to have these types of talks but for single people! Money talks are also within individuals :P
These same talks can apply to your relationship with money yourself!
@@alexisballard1459 yes, a lot! I still would love to see how he handles the questions with single people
Thanks for listening. This podcast is for couples, but I'd invite you to join iwt.com/moneycoaching, where I do Q&A each month (often with single people).
The single and building wealth is a marginalized group in the personal finance community.
I am 42 and my hubby is 40, this episode has made me realize maybe I will never be rich because we do save some money and we have no debt but I really really care about being beautiful and as you get older it just gets more and more expensive to look beautiful and young and I don’t think I can give that up. Oh wow their kids are each two years younger then our two kids
For me, it's your best episode that made me hold a mirror up to myself. I've been following Carl's blog while he was on the 1500 days hunt which tracked my plan as well. Like them, when the dashboard lit up with achieving the FI goal, nothing changed in my habits, we continued to save and invest. I like how you peeled back the layers and zoned in on helping them realize that creating experiences with the family will help the transition to allocating their assets to experiences and creating memories. I'd like to see a few more episodes that pull this thread.
Your interviewing skills are exceptional and help deliver the payload of behavioral changes.
Thanks.
Wow I remember the bigger pockets episode! I’m so proud of Mindy and Carl
It’s very important how FIRE was achieved. If it was done via frugality, then you won’t be able to enjoy it just like this couple.
Definitely need to work towards FIRE while living your desired standard of living. Although mathematically improbable, the fear of running out of money is very real.
How beautiful that they can take their whole family on a cruise! That is amazing!
I’m happy for mindy and Carl and I would love to follow their progress! Mindy and bigger pockets has made an enormous difference in our lives. Good luck Mindy and Carl!! 🩷🩷
The joylessness of it all is astounding.
This was terrific. It must have been difficult for them, as they’re somewhat public, advising and hearing from others. Nice work, I commend your bravery.
As with other episodes, the second half is inspiring! I was worried when I heard about the chagrin over a $20 breakfast... but the Hawaii trip convinced me that these two are starting to focus on what matters (creating lasting memories with their teens). Those times don't last forever, and how special to reframe their focus on appreciating the present with family.
Loved one of your episodes on her podcast and it's so awesome you got her to come on your show with her husband!
Thank you so much for another great episode. This is my favorite episode by far. Absolutely amazing to see them wrestle with changing such a fundamental belief they've had for decades. It was particularly interesting when they talked about turning 80 and how they would have no way to spend all their money. My father is 80 and can barely walk, all the money in the world won't help him do what he wishes he could do. Also so glad they got help hanging doors in their house, at age 50 they are still hanging doors?!
Unfortunately there seems more money made in pushing frugality/FIRE than in using money to help you create a meaningful life for yourself and others. One of the reasons why Ramit is successful is because he has a unique perspective which I wish was more common!
For some reason, this episode is so profound; it made me think about many things. Appreciate the host and the guests to share their experience!
This is so good, thank you for your vulnerability Mindy and Carl. thank you Ramit.
Well played, Ramit! A counterargument to toxic frugality I've heard elsewhere is that if you hold onto your money too long, you'll be frail, or in a nursing home, or absent of too many faculties to ever enjoy it--and possibly all of those things. Even healthy nest eggs have an expiration date. That said, getting the save/spend balance right is an art that often takes a lifetime to master.
I’ve been following FI content for years. I usually listen to the podcast, when I heard Mindy’s voice I switched to video. Thank you, Mindy and Carl, for being vulnerable enough to come onto this show. It was a really great discussion.
Ramit has definitely made me look harder at some FI ideas through this podcast. Keep up the great work.
I recently went from making $25,000 a year to $60,000. My numbers are much lower than this couple, but I see some of my self in the relationship they have with their money. This was a really helpful discussion for me to hear.
This episode was so inspiring. One day I will be able to live my rich life !
It’s got me to thinking of how I should be spending my money. I’m not at the level. They are not at all, but I do fairly decently, so I think my thoughts is how to be kinder to myself in those waves that are may be more self-care.
Great episode. I’d love to see new episodes with people from the working class.
Woohoo!!! Great update Carl!!! You all are going to never forget that cruise to Alaska!!! It will be amazing! That was a great update 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I came to see the video follow up as suggested. It is awesome seeing the person sharing their thoughts. I want to watch on here occasionally too! I enjoy these conversations so much. Thank you for opening our minds-whether we’re in debt or financially wealthy. 🎉so fun!
Wow Mindy is from bigger pockets. I am amazed to see her in this show. Thanks Mindy for being open and share this side of your lives.
They need to enjoy their money because tomorrow isn’t guaranteed. There has to be a balance between saving and spending
I loved this one. Priceless opportunity to learn from the experience of Carl and Mindy. They have done the most difficult part already and yet they are modest and willing to be vulnerable in order to improve. Respect!
Honestly a game changer of an episode. The challenge of moving from accumulation to spending is real, especially with those in the FIRE mindset. Ramit was very intense with this couple….hopefully it was helpful to move them into the action/spend phase
They accomplished a great feat and I hope they enjoy their life and family.
This one sat differently with me. My parents worked so hard their entire lives to build up a sizable nest egg. After having four daughters and working till retirement, they were both excited to spend some of their life savings traveling, which is something they never did prior due to work schedules and prioritizing their children first.
Once retired, their parents got sick and they postponed travel to take care of them. Then my dad passed suddenly and my mom developed Lewy Body Dementia one year later. Now, as my sisters and I take care of our ailing mom, we are spending their savings that they worked so hard for on the best care that we can possibly find for her. Such an eye-opening process to work hard, but also know how to live your rich life before it’s too late.
The end where Ramit talks about how he first spent money was really true. He wanted an outcome and experience that he could afford in the long run. Thats so interesting.
I follow Mindy on her podcast. I didn't even realize this was the crossover episode😂😂❤ I enjoyed this
@ 1:00:30 “how do I give her more of these experiences ?” You spend money to travel 😍
Credit card churn for airline miles /free flights if it makes you more comfortable .
“Travel is the only thing you can buy that will make you richer." Chef Erick Snover
I love this episode!!! Thank you for it!
I’m kind of the same way, luckily my wife is slightly more reasonable. I get a reminder every once in a while to not to just keep squirreling everything away for the distant future. Neither of us are perfect with money but together we are more balanced.
i am also very frugal trying to achieve financial freedom and realized its an issue...i have started to spend more but felt i still need to improve focusing on what brings value and joy....and not focusing on the dollar. i think being balanced is the best