Why the Fallout Show Works and Halo Doesn't
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- The world of video game adaptations is a messy place… so we deep dive into why the Fallout TV show works so well, and why the Halo show does not. Do you agree with our reasoning? Let us know why or why not in the comments!
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:42 Why the Halo Show fell short
03:10 Why the Fallout Show works
04:08 Why it's a fair comparison
05:08 What Halo could've done better
05:48 Halo's shortcomings
06:13 Conclusion
06:57 Outro
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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#fallout #halo - Розваги
My main problem is that the Halo show doesn't respect the source material in the slightest. The writers even bragged that they never played any of the games like wtf
Made on a woke TV channel what did you expect
the source material is expensive so they cant respect it...they would at least need a budget of 300 mill if they want to do justice for the halo ip as a tv show or they can always go to japan and make it for 15mil
So you want to watch cutscenes from the game that already exist in live action? Cool.
@@SuperJohn12354 Define woke. Like actually use a dictionary.
@@anxarts7424
Really?
Because somehow.
They did it with the budget they had for Halo 4: Forward Unto Dawn.
Because of shows like Halo, I entirely expected Fallout to be horrible. I was and continue to be thrilled that I was wrong.
I've never been so happy that I was 100% incorrect, lol.
I felt they had a good show because Johnathan Nolan was heading it up. Liked his work since Person of Interest where they slow boiled a sci-fi masterpiece right under CBS's nose.
@@CESmithnah he just played fallout 3 a lot
spot on
@youareverywrong yeah halo is overrated
Not too mention fallout doesn’t make a huge deal of a female lead….they just wrote a great story with a female lead, and didn’t make a big stink about it
I don't think anyone cares about the lead being female. Its the amount of liberties they took with the lore that annoys people
Exactly! She is a great lead who happenss to be female. Tough and smart without being cast as just another tough guy clone. Like you said, just got on with it.
@@cannack2239 yeah like it feels regressive to brag and overly point out a “female lead”….like it’s abnormal. Doing it like this or like Sigourney Weaver in Alien is the right why to do female leads….just badass role models for young women/girls and it’s totally normal.
When your characters can fail (and she does--repeatedly) it makes them more relatable. She always gets back up, though, and that makes her likable. You want to root for her. Mary and Gary never fail, and that's why they're boring.
She’s highly competent but still has to be saved multiple times by men, because she’s horribly naive.
Because fallout was made for the fans and Halo wasn't
Let's hope that doesn't change in futures seasons.
By making Fallout for the fans, they also made Fallout for new audiences, some who will now play the games and become fans. Halo on the other hand no
@@matthewk4912 This. I hate the 'no one would watch it if they made it for the fans' take. Like no, Halo became massively popular by being halo. It didn't need to become a poorly written, poorly acted, low budget mess to get a bigger audience.
Cut it. print it. send it
its more than just that...money plays a major factor in production
on one hand you have Fall out with typical wasteland setting which is easy to do and the story mainly focuses on the humans ...occasionally throwing cgi monsters and power armours in between no one can deny that its more production and budget friendly with most of the items being available in our modern times...
on the other hand we have Halo
an epic sage that takes place on a magical ring and many other planets and massive battles and shit tone of cgi shots and a cgi lady in our face all the time and a practical armour that is good but is hard to do action scenes in so also using chi for action scenes ...HALO is an expensive project...i know microsoft has money but no studio will invest a shit ton of money just to satisfy fans...at the end of the day for video games and tv media are part of a business model.
If halo had been a movie instead of a show it would have done much better.
Jonathan Nolan's signature non-linear storytelling really makes the show shine.
@youareverywronghe made poi lol
Im convinced with the Halo show, they had a crappy sci-fi original story, but the studio had ZERO interest/confidence in an original IP. So they said "eh all sci-fi is the same right?" and slapped a logo on it.
I don’t really, truly know the franchise well, (it was more my baby brother’s generation and style game), but, I had this exact same conclusion after watching the show. I think if they’d have just slapped another title on it, and removed the “masterchief” aesthetic element, using some other generic sci-fi space soldier costuming even… (and, maybe leaned into it with either more drama or more humour/tacky-cheesey b film type, maybe something akin to Peacemaker… hear me out… that’d have been a blast. I think Halo suffered bad writing, and came off as funny-hokey where it didn’t intend to maybe, but I kinda liked that essence to it. I didn’t like the annoying teenager arc, that whole ordeal around her character is exactly as unlikeable and off putting as the characters in that even more dreadful Resident Evil series. Oh dear… that was a true stinker of the highest caliber.
I completely agree, It 100% gives the vibe of them wanting to do a show about a super soldier dealing with PTSD and Being a symbol, Then they were only Approved IF, they slapped halo on the title
I just wish that they didn't include the Masterchief in it. If they wanted to make an original sci-fi story with Halo elements, then DON'T PUT ANY GAME CHARACTERS IN IT.
Just tell a story of some random USMC trooper turned hero, a scientist uncovering Forerunner secrets, or an ONI operative spy thriller. Good story telling, with game character cameos here and there, and everyone is happy.
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there was a leak or insider that confirmed that exact theory. I guess it’s a semi-common theme in Hollywood. They get cheaper screenwriting etc because they’re using bottom-of-the-barrel scripts and ideas and trying to recycle them by using familiar IPs. It’s the reason a lot of licensed content or shows don’t pan out well.
I've been saying from the intro of Kwan that they mixed in a rejected "Into The Badlands" script to pad out their first season with bullcrap. _Nothing_ about Kwan's story says 'Halo' to me, but it for damn sure looks like something from ITB. The burning fuel fields, the wasteland-like environment, the costuming... all of it fits ITB better than Halo.
I've also said that the vast majority of Hollywood writers can't resist taking someone else's IP and rubbing it all over their unwashed crotch so they can get their stink on it. Metaphorically speaking, of course.
Nothing sucks more than seeing other fanbases get to enjoy good adaptations, meanwhile we get treated like crap by having a show runner who’s openly hostile to the fans
Halo and Resident Evil fans are cying in the corner
And then there's the latest installment to our favorite franchise still being an incomplete imbalanced and micro transaction victim of Microsoft's greed and 343i's incompetence..
They turned Master Chief into Mister Cheetos
Master Cheeks
Jimmy Rings
Johnny Loop
Master Queef
Master Cheap
Don't you mean *MASSter CHEEKS?*
Master Cheeks
Bacause Fallout show people made a FALLOUT show
Halo people made a generic artificial action drama that happens to have "Halo" slapped on it
Anyway I'm waiting for another Doom film/show adaptation where Doomslayer becomes the mayor of animal crossing in hell by being nice and considerate
Gonna be thrilling
I think the Fallout universe/lore is just naturally more attractive and easy to get into for the average person, mainly because of its proximity to our own universe. We were genuinely inches close to a nuclear apocalypse, and pretty much everyone of us have at least imagined what it’d be like to live in a post nuclear apocalyptic world
@@dathunderman4 i dont think thats it. Halo also has a massive wealth of lore and there is a reason halo used to be so popular. Everyone adored the world and the characters. Halo could have been given the same treatment as fallout and would have been as succesful if not more
@youareverywrong fallout was good wdym? What issues did you have?
@youareverywrong what didn't you like about it?
And I must say, the Halo show is impressively generic. Making something so bland must have taken effort. It's not even bad, it's just not anything. It's air-flavoured bread.
The thing I liked most about fallout it only had 3 main characters and it put the focus on them and gave them each great character arcs, development and clear goals for the season. It didn’t focus on a bunch of characters no one cared about. Saying that all the side characters were great aswell
The ghouls are fascinating to me, like cooper in the series, set, raul, the doctors assistant from jacobstown, it was great how coopers story was told
Can you explain what the character arcs are? Because the only one who changed was Lucy as she was ready to make a hard decision to kill her dad. But even that was botched as her dad just flew away, so she never got to make a choice and finalize her character arc.
Maximus was dumb and constantly pretending to be someone else the entire show. The show then ends with him pretending to be the hero of the battle as he is back where he started in the brotherhood of steel.
The Ghoul was a sadistic jerk the entire movie and he was no different in the end.
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 arc probably wasn’t the best word to use for the ghouls story, but the pre bombs story with him was mainly what I was referring to, however Max throughout the season went from the brotherhood being everything to him and wanting to be a knight and being selfish AF to realising that the brotherhood isn’t everything and that there ways aren’t the best and there is more out there and a better way to live and becoming less selfish
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 "Can you explain what the character arcs are? "
It's pretty clear that Maximus goes from a nobody Squire in training to a Knight of the Brotherhood. Sure, they assume he killed the NCR leader and he didn't, but he did go from an incompetent newbie into someone capable of completing dangerous and hard missions.
As to the Ghoul, the start of his story is clearly the back story when he's a naive actor in Hollywood. At the start of the modern day story he's a callous mercenary only interested in collecting a bounty to supply his drugs, then by the end he's following the ex-Overseer to find out what happened to his family.
@@samuelcharlton8934 Maybe he realized that, but what really changed when now he's just back in the Brotherhood and probably doesn't like Lucy anymore? I mean she just left him
Fallout doesn't need particular characters from the games, Fallout is a universe so there can be any number of characters storylines. As long as you stick to the "rules" of the universe it "just works". Watching the show I could imagine myself walking in that same universe.
Heck, I already feel like playing Fallout 5.
"Though shall get sidetrack by bullshit every damn time"
"Though shall get sidetrack by bullshit every damn time"
What Todd said was basically the short answer. Which was their approach of "Wouldn't it be cool if we have a show?" Instead of "We should have a show."
The Halo adaptation was bad enough that it was possibly even damaging to the brand. Halo on the whole has been struggling to put out good games ever since Bungie left, and this just makes it all worse
It was damaging to adaptations in general in my mind, too. When I saw the Fallout announcement, I assumed Hollywood was going to kill another beloved series, because the Halo adaptation convinced me that 9 times out of 10, it just can't be done
Was it even possible to make a good Halo show? I having played any of the games since the original, but FPS of that era tended to not have any real story, sure Half-Life had already come out, but Halo wasn't one that I remember using a plot in any meaningful way. Which was perfectly fine, a game that was that heavily focused on death matches isn't going to benefit from having an elaborate plot anyways.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade There are dozens of novels set in the Halo universe that are canon to the games, some following Master Chief, many following other characters ranging from marines to civilians, and even various alien species. Halo 2 is essentially a bombastic action movie full of memorable lines and cinematic moments. Halo 3: ODST has a fantastic noir vibe as you slowly piece together the events of the Covenant's invasion of Earth in a dark occupied cityscape. Halo: Reach is the melancholic last stand of a squad of Spartans trying and ultimately failing to defend humanity's last stronghold before Earth, watching their teammates get picked off one by one as they try to make a difference in a war they won't see the end of.
There is no shortage of good Halo stories out there across games, books, and even a few short films/mini-series. There was 20+ years of material to take inspiration from. The Halo TV show ignores most of it and completely rewrites everything it does use. It was absolutely possible to make a good Halo show, but the one we got doesn't really respect anything that came before it. It's not just that it changes things, it's that it shows a lack of understanding for why people liked those things in the first place.
As much as we love to meme on Todd Howard, his inclusion as a producer on the show probably played a large part in the success of the show. It's not one of those situations where the property was handed off to some people who had to start reading about the material to even know what's going on. It's clearly being created as an integral chapter of the universe, has it's own specific place in the timeline, and is understood implicitly as such, with THE GUY who has been the creative director of 2 out of 3 of the modern fallout titles involved.
Lucy's whole story just FEELS like a fallout game I've never played
You mean vault dweller looking for family member in the wasteland ? Thats 2 out of 4 modern fallouts
@@ambustio9807 lmao fuck I briefly forgot 76 existed. But yes. If you're introducing an entire new audience it's a simple, easy plot to root for, and it's going to feel familiar to all the existing fans.
Lmao, the absolute state of Toddslop fanboys.
@@AnonymousAnonposter "SOMEONE DISAGREED WITH MY OPINION ABOUT A RANDOM VIDEO GAME PRODUCTION LEAD REEEEEE" -You, 2024
My comment wasn't even really in approval of Todd Howard, I just think it's probably a good thing for shows like this to include people who are heavily involved in the creative direction of the source material, and it probably paid off here. Fuckin weirdo.
@@TheGoIsWin21 why do you lie in your comment making it sound like its better than it is ?
"Lucys whole story FEELS like a fallout game I've never played" so you didnt play any fallout then ?
Also Emil the writer fot FO is a bad writer just compare NV to FO4
Another key thing IMO is the use of practical effects. That Master Chief melee against the Covenant guy looks lame af - there's no weight to it at all. Every time power armor is involved in Fallout, it feels like there's 3 tons of metal in the scene.
i felt the complete opposite. the power armor, imo, felt weightless and floaty.
Watch the scene where Maximus gets beat up outside of his power armor. He uses the armor to crush a guy's head, but when they're pushing him against the armor, the plating bends and folds and moves around like it's made of paper.
@@JonathanHayes-uz3ee Well it was just one scene, the thing is that even thorugh the amor is made of plastic they somehow were able to create the illusion that it has weight to it when bullets hit and bounce off.
@@Zibi21 Yup, the power armor looks like cosplay at times, but they gave it weight more often than not. MC's CGI motion is terrible, at least in movement/physics.
@@JonathanHayes-uz3ee yeah, hard to make plastic or foam look like its metal in 1080p. Look at the 1080p version of Robocop and you can just tell that Peter Weller is wearing plastic through the whole film.
Because Fallout has an adaptable and friendly lore for TV, unlike Halo, which is science fiction invented by amateurs.
You can feel the game in Fallout tv series, but not in Halo. Halo just feels like another sci fi series than Halo game.
It’s great how the Fallout show feels like a videogame. The characters feel like they have stats and were created in the S.P.E.C.I.A.L system. The action scenes feel like videogame action. I loved when Thaddeus fired like 6 rounds and missed everyone like he is a fallout 1 character with no skills in gun handling 😂
It genuinely feels like a videogame, a fallout game. That’s what’s so great about it imo.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 Meanwhile, the Spartans in Halo have literal Aim Assist, making it feel less like a Video Game. Guess they were playing on Easy mode or something XD
@@user-ro6ou5vo6b that show is an abomination on many levels. Jon Spartan sure is a character that exists
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 I was actually agreeing with your comment. you stated that missing shots felt like a video game, whereas in Halo they had aim assist, making it feel less like a video game
Goggins has more gravitational pull than an imploding star
Agreed. I do kind of hate how some people say he "steals the show". He was literally brought in to be one of the leads because of that bottomless well of charisma (even as an antihero), and the one with the most cache with a wide audience. Ella Purnell has done really well, but she was likely always second fiddle when it came to early hype with the show because she hasn't been acting for decades. You cheer for Lucy, but you're drawn to Cooper/The Ghoul.
To be fair, there isnt a weak link in either the mains or supporting cast, as Critical Drinker would say, its about good writing and character development, not "THE MESSAGE" !
Pretty simple. It's happened so many times. HALO, the show runners don't really care about the IP. They just want to use it to do their own Scifi epic and it's failing. However, with Fallout the showrunners namely Todd Howard are making sure the show is done justice. Same reason why One Piece was so good. The creator was involved. Not to say God Howard is the creator, but he is the daddy of the IP now after it was bought by BGS and clearly he cares.
He’s not really the writer, he’s more PR and the Director. Which is fine but a lot of people seem to miss that fact.
Jonathan Nolan is a fan of the source material, the head writer played the original pre-Bethesda fallout games back in the 90’s.
@@jokester3076 what what what isn't that illigal? i thought a fair share of writers had to hate/dislike the source material for balance sake or who knows :P
@@anub1s15 I'm sure it is a requirement in Hollywood that the creatives hate the material they are working with, and all pitch meetings involve them mocking the material and talking about the "problematic" things they must fix in order to adapt it for "modern audiences". From there, if any of the actors happen to be huge fans of the franchise, well, it's not gonna go well for them (lookin' at you, Witcher).
It's a continued fixation on an evermore nebulous version of the BoS, and misconstruing of NCR lore.
What I find interesting about Fallout is that the incorporation of 3 main characters gives you that feeling of playing with multiple factions in the game. I thought it fit very well with the story
It totally feels like 3 character builds (4, I count Norman too)
It also feels like game play. Especially the wastelands golden rule 😂 like its not linear, there's side quests, and side main quests. I personally loved how vault 32 felt like i was in the game walking into a new vault discovering the weird deaths.
People hating on the Fallout show are basically the fans of Jimmy Rings being mad that their show is most disliked.
Been a fan of Halo since Halo 2. Only got into Fallout around Fallout 4. Halo show is absolute garbage, Fallout show is a much-needed win
@@MikeInTheWoods I f*cking hate Jimmy Rings.
@youareverywrong uninspired? Tell that to the fanbase not me.
@youareverywrong you live up to your username
I feel like people who hate on the Fallout show don't realize that some people (Cough the Halo fans cough) have got it worse
I think for me the difference is that Fallout could easily have been the main storyline for Fallout 5--it has the same feel as the games, which is rare for a game-based series or movie. It's not just the sets and the costuming but the way every time you think you know what's going on there's another twist. And it had chickens.
Adapting a video game starts with nailing the tone and aesthetics of the world. If you can get that right, and stay true to any carryover characters, you have a strong foundation to build your own unique stories. If you cannot get the basics correct, anything unique you build will just collapse.
Facts
Ultimately Fallout had a director who was himself a fan, and that shows.
Practical example of character fuck up in the Halo series: Jacob and Miranda Keyes are NOTHING like in the games; they are originally honorable, great leaders, adventurous, with a lot of initiative and were often in the battlefield. In the series, Jacob is a pitty commander who keeps nagging Master Chief and never even picks up a gun, and Miranda is in the lab all the time.
Why using existing characters and make them into other characters?
And if they wanted racial inclusion, instead of making Jacob and Miranda black, they could have included Avery Johnson! And they didn't!
They also don't explain why the Covenant is attacking the humans instead of offering them to join the Covenant. That is something not even the games explain. Great opportunities missed.
I couldn't imagine what they do to Avery Johnson if they adapted _him_ into the show...
Add him to the list of things I'm glad they didn't touch, right after Noble Team and the Spartan-III's (because those people they called Spartan-III's were just downgraded and rebranded ODST's, who also seem to be absent).
The games and books actually do explain why the covenant decides to wipe out humanity instead of offering then to join. In the lore the elites want humanity to join the covenant because of their tenacity and fearlessness in battle, but the prophets realised that humanities existance proves that the covenants entire religion is a sham. Everyone in the covenant believed they were the decendants from the forunners and they worshipped the foruners and their technology. Humanity was found to be the actual descendants so the prophets decided that annihalation was the only way to keep the other species from finding out the truth. Im guessing that the show doesnt go over this
I don't want them to include Johnson. they'd ruin him, just like the ruined everyone else.
Easy. The actors and production crew CARE about the lore and the fans
What? No, lore in the show is completely retconned, I loved the show, but lore is yet again broken.
@@russianoverkill3715fr
@@russianoverkill3715 I didn't notice the "lore breaks", maybe minor conflicts, but nothing more.
I am, however, interesting on your opinion on what Fallout show "lore breaks", like genuinly, I want to know.
@@Taron_HaiTar yet again ghouls being retconned, now they require some chemicals to not turn into ferals, while that was not an issue in previous games, and the biggest one Shady Sands, it blew up in 2277, yet in New Vegas, which takes place in 2281, it is regarded as being existent.
@@russianoverkill3715 First, the ghoul's sanity keeper drug could coexist with prior methods - it's just another thing that anchors your sanity + it might be just a placebo drug. Secondly, the chalkboard says the "Fall of Shady Sands", NOT it's destruction, as the image of a nuke is AFTER the "Fall". In the lore of New Vegas, it's clearly stated that NCR gets shittier by the day - overextentions, polititians servicing themselfs and not the people, resources on the brink of starting dwindeling - all that can cause a decline of NCR cities, *including Shady Sands, especially Shady Sands!* I stounchly believe that "Fall of Shady Sands" is a HARD decline of it's state, because of the reasons stated above.
2 sample answers. Halo tv show writer was asked Which halo game is your favorite game or books? Answer, I ever read any books or play any if the game's.
They don't care about the fan's base and story line.
The Fallout show gave is BRILLANT.
I feel like it’s okay with good moments, the opening nuke scene in the series reminded me of how mediocre the prologue of Fallout 4 was.
@@AdrianFahrenheitTepes The whole thing felt like a Fallout game!
@@lakselv3768 Atmosphere sure. But more of a statement as to how the prologue of Fallout 4 could have been better. Definitely better than Halo, largely in part by setting up new characters in a setting that is after any game happens.
NPC
@@lakselv3768 The show felt like a Fallout game if the only Fallout games you've ever played were Fallout 4 and Fallout 76
Realistically if the Fallout show was made into a game, It would fit perfectly into the series.
The Halo show, would definetley not fit anywhere as a game and is kiterally uust a generic sci fi show, with the halo skin on it.
I used to play a game called Defiance, that actually had a great serilized show that was played alongside it. Great show, but the halo tv show reminds me ALOT of that show. Except that show was good and worked really well. The Halo show just feels like its trying to imitate that.
Defiance show was great, especially for sci-fi channel.
I had almost this exact conversation with some people yesterday.
Fallout actually had help from Bethesda meanwhile they didn’t even bother to get 343 to help with the halo tv show
What's the point of bringing 343, who never managed to make a good story in their games?
@@russianoverkill3715 They certainly can make MUCH a better story, than whole ""Halo"" show combined. + Infinite was simply a good story, not great, just good. And campaign is... incomplete, or feels like it.
@@Taron_HaiTar it's not reassurring if 343 stories are better than that, it's just less shittу
@@russianoverkill3715 Still MUCH better, than stuff made by people who *activly hate the source material and brag about how they've didn't even bother to get basic information about source material, with unholy furvor!* + I like Halo Infinite, so it's not as bad as many say it is. Also it's clear 343 is *trying* to fix their mistakes and make up to us, albeit with weirdly stable graphic of "Step forward, stumble with face hitting the mud, repeat".
@@russianoverkill3715343 can make good stories, Halo 4s was good, Their problem was trying to shove too much shit in 5, The Guardians, AI uprising, Blue team, Osiris team, Chiefs Rebellion, The warden, Etc.
I never played any of the games for either. I had to force myself to finish Halo. But I’m now watching Fallout for the second time in a week. I think that says a lot
Yes, so many Easter eggs and little details even for people who never played the games. It certainly demands a second or even 3rd viewing.
If you love the show that much, you will most likely love the games too..
@youareverywrong Yeah yeah toxic fan shitting on everything. News at 11.
don't let that shitty show be your opinion of halo, please play the original trilogy,the best in all of gaming
@@6ixman485 *Reach and ODST crying in the corner*
Bcuz fallout sticks to the basics while still being something of its own, the practicality of the fx, and bcuz its made for the fans not just a money grab
Respect of source material
If you think that the fallout show respects the source material, you are horribly mistaken.
@@archdornan8349 it's you who don't had respects both of it so keep crying about that
Fallout has good writers. Halo has shit writers. Its that simple.
Soren is the only good actor too.
Yeah people are making this way too complicated than it actually is and all this talk about "respecting the source material" suggests only one interpretation of the work is the "correct one". Look at Andor and see how its lack of campy themes common to SW as a genre makes it so much livelier, or the new Scott Pilgrim anime which intentionally diverted away from the comics plotline.
There's also the fact that (at least nowadays) franchises like Fallout and Halo have really shit writing now. I'm sorry but if you were to tell me that there's gonna be a Halo TV show and its gonna follow the games tit-for-tat, its gonna level off real fast after Halo 3 is adapted.
"Fallout has good writers" ehhh.... I wouldent say that, but they definitely have their good moments. Imo this show was one of those moments
@@kroanosm617 Soren was in the actual lore though, so does he count?
@@user-ro6ou5vo6b Not sure what you mean. I'm talking about the actor being good. Plus being in the lore doesn't mean much apparently since they ruined Master Chief.
One thing I will say right off the bat is that the thing about fallout is that you can essentially make your own character and your own choices. So there's room to Improvise when writing new characters, as where with Halo, there's more established character with specific traits and an overarching narrative. Fallout doesn't have one main storyline throughout the games. They're all different.
I've not played Fallout but found it utterly engaging. Agreed that the ODST ad looked far better than the entire Halo show, also to counterpoint an adaptation, I read the Wool (Silo) trilogy and the Apple TV of that was exceptional, for the same reason Fallout is, it added in some story elements not in the book, but the look and feel was entirely consistent with how, as a reader of Wool, I "expected" it to look and feel.
The funny thing about the Halo series is that one of the changes they made to Halsey (lying to the Spartans about their past and messing with their memories) is something the canon Halsey would call her an idiot over, making her do something her canon counterpart refused to do specifically because it would cause the very problems seen in the show.
The writers attempt to cause drama required making one of the most intelligent characters in the franchise into a short-sighted fool to work.
I love how writers in Halo, just like other writers who miserably failed adaptation, bragged that they have no idea about this game from the start. And why the hell are they getting invested millions of dollar if they did not do any homework?
they're the spoiled kids lol
because fallout glanced at the source material before writing a script
Halo imo should have been written like One Punch man, a lot of amazing side stories you can tell with ODST, sergeant Johnson, etc, then throw in Master Chief here and there like Satima when an over powered character is needed. His entrances will always be grand and spectacular while not heavily relying on the Chief for the entire story.
Have to agree with the title of the video. I’ve played halo but no fallout and halo I watched all of two or three episodes and never went back. Fallout even though I never played the game I binged all 8 episodes, even though I have no clue if it’s true to the game I felt immersed in the show, things felt genuine unlike halo’s generic feel. Sad because halo is another huge game title. Plus Walton plays one heck of a roughneck and kills his role.
I'm a fallout fan but trust me everything in the fallout show is almost exactly like the games I don't think I saw any flaws to it.
The Flashbacks in Fallout were used extremely well. They were leading to a revealing shocking truth. It also helped there was a clear break between what happened in the past, and what was happening in the future. Even the flashbacks that happen in the recent past in the future.
Respect. I feel like it’s really this simple. The team producing Halo doesn’t respect Halo.
Master Chief is a hard character to have as the central character. They should have created a character that interacts with Master Chief. MC is controlled by his armor and modifications, and thus he isn’t compelling to have as the central character because he doesn’t have emotions like a normal person. MC doesn’t have a heroes journey. He is more a product. A person who interacts with MC could have a heroes journey and be in awe of MC while enabling MC to be true to the character.
Did you ever watch Halo: Forward Unto Dawn?
@@gordonhowett7529 Yeah, or have they seen The Mandalorian? A low emotions, helmeted character can still be very likable. Master Chief isn't chatty, so just give those lines to supporting characters, but let 117 do what he's best at: lead a team and accomplish objectives. Sometimes he fails, or objectives change. But he's going to keep trying. You root for the persistence, not the emotional growth. It would be wrong to say he doesn't change as a character over the games, but it is mostly in subtle ways: learning to trust the Arbiter, sharing his failure with Echo-216. Just like how Mando learns to let others help him in his quest.
@@acgeewhizI root for the covenant
MC can be done just like Robocop, Judge Dredd or Din Djarin from season 1 of Mandalorian.
They kinda did create that character in the show. Or at least, in the earlier episodes. Kwan. It didn't work either.
Don’t forget that last of us that was implemented into a TV series. That series was SICK!!!
excellent point. I think as again, someone who hasnt played LoU or Fallout, the premise is accessible without having to know "the lore" and the fact that true fans of the games love both shows in a general sense even if they disagree on minor specific points means it bridges the gaps perfectly.
I think Fallout is even more challenging to write for. Remember the Fallout games are choice driven, there is no one ending and it could affect the TV series as it would force the story to a single timeline. For one in NV I remember House dies. If the TV show shows that he's still alive (one form or another) then it erases the House is dead timeline and all its repercussions.
Halo on the other hand is linear. They should have just followed that successful formula. But no, they want their own "spin" on it.
Halo essentially got licensed by a third party, while Fallout was made by the game studio but with smart showrunners, cast, and writing.
The halo show writers wanted to make their own show and dressed it in halos skin. The fallout show is clearly set in the fallout universe by people having so much fun with the core concepts of the games that they even make time to throw in Easter eggs for the fans.
LoL I can just imagine the one scene where the Squire Maximus waits for the Power Armor guy, to die and steal his armor, but just replacing them with the master chief and a Marine soldier
But that wouldn't work, a marine can't just take Mjolnir armor from a dead spartan. They wouldn't know how to get into it, they themselves also aren't super soldiers so even if they could the suit would immediately kill them.
or the Innie that survived and tagged along with MC
I am so Happy that my favourite game series ever has been succesfully adapted in live action. There is nothing quite like the Fallout Universe
Writing 👏 is 👏 KING 👏
Everything about a show can be shot in a technically sound way, but if it's boring or it's just plain bad writing, you can't get away with it.
The narrative and the writing are the spine of cinema.
Just waiting for The Mysterious Stranger to show up, kill something, and disappear.
Need this in s2 so badly
For video game adaptations it should be a requirement to be a fan of the source material and, if possible, have some of the devs involved.
In a behind the scenes video for the Fallout show someone said something along the lines of "we want to expand on the games, not change them", meanwhile with Halo we have the infamous quote of "We didn't look at the games".
major consensus in these comments and I have to agree. The writers and showrunners had respect for the lore and IP. The involvement of major Bethesda heads in the show kept the writing team in line with lore. The actors don't need to know the lore, just their character, lines, and good direction.
It helps that the TV team is much smaller than the bigger studios- Warner Bros, Paramount, Disney, Fox, they're all chasing profit margins even if it cuts into artistic choices. With a smaller studio to work with, Bethesda can have more weight on their end to keep the show feeling like fallout and not a generic post- apocalypse.
It's not just Bethesda's end though. The Tv team was clearly a very skilled crew in their craft. The cinemaphotography, the lighting, sets, effects, everything was a Chef's kiss out of ten. The directing, editing, scripting was all well done for the most part.
my opinion; Bethesda came into this with a clear goal and was not feeling pressured to milk their IP. The shopped around for and found a dedicated, small, skilled tv production team willing to let them have the reigns over it. Bethesda had enough respect for their own IP to go out of their way to do this (I doubt Microsoft cares much if at all that a Halo show is Halo consistent). And as production went on they worked out good compromises to make the show happen.
obviously I don't work in production so maybe this show is held together with duct tape and dreams but that's my opinion as of now.
I think the best aspect of the Fallout show is how they first plant the seeds of mystery beginning all the way in the first episode, and that mystery is only revealed at the last episode. That was a nice twist for sure!
And also every time Cooper Howard’s backstory is shown in contrast to his current state is just masterful, and I love how they use his backstory as a way to also show the history behind the nukes and the Great War and why the world is like this. It’s so much better than a bunch of exposition being dropped by him. I don’t think the man has mentioned a single thing about his past to anyone, and yet we know him pretty well because of what we’ve seen. That’s real storytelling
LOVE this format of video!! The Fallout show is so good😭😭
This is how I found your channel! Really well made video. I'd love to see more videos like this in the future
I always wanted a band of brother like show focusing on UNSC marines in the human covenant war, it would be able to make up characters and scenarios that feel familiar but aren’t direct copies of existing ones.
The Halo show is like the movie Braveheart. They both follow the original story so loosely that you could change the names of the people and places involved and nobody would be able to tell what it was based on.
Totally forgot how a lot got the main actors played the game to learn more about there roles
Source material... and how it's brought.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to more than just video game adaptations. This is a rule ANY adaptation should seek to follow.
The Fallout vibe is a good balance of dark humour, betrayal and heartbreaking tragedy. They nailed all 3 of those in perfect balance. The opening scene was like something out of a 90s block buster disaster movie.
Crazy that if you just stick to the source material you make a good show for both fans and newcomers.
Fallout doesn't bastardize the original plot/premise of the franchise and guiltlessly just use the preexisting fame to baselessly create a show that blatantly ISN'T based off the source material. Fallout also respects the fans instead of snubbing them at every opportunity whenever opinions are voiced about the show.
I feel like the only thing that the Fallout TV show was truly missing was some kind of appearance, narration, or cameo by Ron Perlman.
Fallout seems to have gone the route of "the House always wins" ending from FNV based on the last episode. NCR looks to have been stretched too thin. Putting so many of their forces into Nevada to fight Cesar's legions left them weak and read some people saying that the lore talks about a great famine at that time so NCR couldn't support the population and people just left. I'm just hoping they do an episode or two around the Old World Blues DLC at the big MT in a future season. Would love to see the dark humor of robots with human brains trying to imitate human behaviours as well as making appliances with AI so that you have situations like a toaster, light switch and jukebox getting into verbal arguments with each other.
Mass Effect is like Fallout, has nany possibilities for an independent yet parallel story.
Honestly I can't help but feel like fallout is an eye opener for what a good adaptation should be. But more so then that it gives us a compelling story that is well paced and gives us a satisfying conclusion while establishing the next season.
It helps that with Fallout there is no canonical main character except the player's character; and even then it's only for that particular game. So what people love about Fallout is the world itself rather than a particular character like the Master Chief.
Seriously, this show _feels_ like a Fallout 5; and I would not doubt for a second that mod makers are already hard at work making something that would let you either plays as these characters or recruit them as companions. Heck, they might even be working on a large-scale mod for Fallout 4 that would let you play through the TV show.
It should be noted that the Halo TV show suffered from a lot of executive meddling. Paramount essentially wanted a Game of Thrones-like show but IN SPACE which led to a lot of writers leaving the show due to creative differences.
That actually explains a lot. It takes an executive to produce something this impressively bland.
Respect of the IP and good writing simple as
Respect the IP? Do you people even understand what happened in the show.
Hahaha good joke.
@@RedStar441 fallout does a great job of being respectful to the IP what you on about, especially when compaired to the "halo" show
@@angelsideuk6197 no it doesn't it has nothing to do with the IP. Most of the important characters are pre-war and it's all new lore that doesn't connect in a satisfying way to previous events. it feels like a fallout fanfic
I was just thinking about this, the reason why I loved fallout was because it took most of the elements of the story and characters from the game!!! Even though I’m not totally into fallout I can tell that’s exactly what the writers did!!! Good video!!!
whats the background music playing during the Halo sections of the video?
Halo show retcons shit, and "alternate timelines" the lore. Fallout is a fun whacky story in the wasteland. It isnt fucking hard you lazy writers. Just use what was given to you!
But nooooo! They think they know "better", how to write the show over some video game. So they take the old lore, and dump it in the trash.
Fallout the TV show is how it is done.
Fallout show did exacly dump lore in the trash tho
The Fallout show functionally retconned the NCR and New Vegas. It's doing an alternate timeline!!!
Do you people even understand this before you type.
@@RedStar441 feels like people that praise this show turned their brains off.
like they all went "HaHA stempic did stempic thing" and just ignore the awful writing and dialogue.
and all of the lore breaking stuff, outside of rectons to new vegas they even fucked with the other lore and shit to.
like ghouls needing some magically drug now, and the BOS is now "super inclusive" with a fucking trans/nonbinary in their ranks (which literally goes again their whole belief system)
@@RedStar441The Nerds are reddit did the math, The show does not Retconn new Vegas whatsoever
Fallout series is pure genius..
Halo is BEYOND disappointing 🥲 my fav game franchise destroyed to become a generic space marine show. Just call it “John”
It's heartbreaking! Why is the universe unfair!! 😭
It's kinda funny. We've already had great Halo media. Halo Legends and Forward unto dawn.
So honestly I don't even see the Halo TV show as part of the franchise. So it doesn't bother me
"Helmet off chief cheeks"
Much better fitting title
🤣😂🤣😂
No, No, Halo should be called 'On the John'... 🙄🙄
remember to add in that Halo was in YEARS in the works on their tv shows with multiple reworks
I just imagine somewhere in Halo's production office, the producers and the writers arguing about everything. Because usually that's what happens, exects who dont understand the show wants it to be as generically eye-catching as possible and producers who want to present the story the right way fervently want to stick to source material. Whenever team source material wins, the show is good (the last of us, Fallout, Witcher Season 1, Arcane, edgerunners....), whenever team Exects win, we get the likes of Halo and Witcher season 2... everyone wants the series to succeed, everyones got their own ideas how.
War, war never changes
Witcher season 1 was still terrible adaptation wise as well, it was just the closest to the books compared to the other seasons so it should tell you how bad it is.
Overall Fallout is significantly less disappointing than Halo. Some things were a bit meh like Cold Fusion as a novel technology when it’s superficial considering portable fusion power is widespread and normal in Fallout, even within the series both before and after the war. It’s not as novel of a technology as teleporters in Fallout 4 or mass water purification in Fallout 3.
The NCR is stated in the games as gobbling up land and resources really hard and over extending itself. I did feel that the cancelled Van Buren breakup into separate states might have been a little better than just nuking their capital out of existence.
The opening scene and Walton Goggins Acting as the Ghoul were good parts of the series. And Lucy was kind of a joke character of a vault dweller that made me chuckle. It felt like they tried to hard at making Maximus wimpy, and I would have preferred more of a Luke Skywalker, “try until he succeeds” approach while still exerting himself. I still feel it’s much better in terms of entertainment on its own than Halo. Just my .05.
fallout the goty
Fallout has good writing teams, the pacing, the 3 protagonist arc and making them converged together in just a couple of episode while making it interesting and compelling is nuts, not to mention the Vault parts of it to keep it more engaging, the Fallout show did the impossible to be honest
4:28 Oh the writers wanted to do it so much, as they always do. But Bethesda had full creative control over the series. And that's why Fallout worked.
honestly knowing both halo and fallout are both owned by microsoft, i feel like halo basically became a sacrifical lamb to the land of tv adaptations in order for the fallout show to succeed (probably due to microsoft taking notes on what didnt work with halo, and using that when working on fallout)
The fallout show was in production way before MS acquisition of Bethesda.
They should rename it to Gaylo
Quote goes hard
I swear that quote came straight from a 2009 MW2 lobby filled with squeakers
@@SSgtJ0hns0nohh god the squeaker PTSD.
Well quite simply :
One studio really wanted to make a fallout show. And it shows!
And the other really didn't want to make a halo show....and it shows...
WHAT IS THE SONG PLAYING AT 4:19!!!??? I CANT FIND IT!
I enjoyed watching, but the show took too many liberties with the lore for me to 'like' it.
The main offender being the "somehow palpatine returned!" Moment with the BoS appearance, just doesnt sit right with me.
Um, the Brotherhood of Steel has always been one consistent faction in the series, so it would not be a "somehow Palpatine returned" moment.
@@ryanscheffer2302 it literally is BoS was gutted after the war with the NCR and later after the defeat after helios
But yeah I agree its not the BoS that somehow returned but the enclave
@ryanscheffer2302
15 years prior during the events of FNV they were dying out, most of their chapter defeated by the NCR, and the remainder left isolated living in few, scant bunkers. Unable to regrow their ranks via procreation because their gene pool was too small, and unwilling to recruit outsiders en masse due to the teachings of their codex.
Now they're just the dominant force again. Guys look at big airship n pls dont think about it!! 🤣
It doesn't make sense and it's simply not consistent for this chapter to have changed so radically, and grown so much in this little time.
@@ambustio9807 the Enclave too, absolutely.
I was just using the BoS as an example
@@archdornan8349To be fair, the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 had a mobile airship base and fought with power against The Institute. The Enclave coming back is more rediculous in terms of coming back because they got whipped in California, beat up in Washington D.C. , and that’s not even going into the virus plot to kill all mutants and ghouls that got thwarted twice. I know who the Enclave is by this point, and the small puny remnant in New Vegas was a good way to say goodbye to the Enclave.
And can you believe it? 2024, female lead protag AND black male protag.. BUT their dialog is not restrained to "I am a strong independent woman, woman can do stuff! Look how I crush patriarchy" and "I am a minority you will respect me look how I crush white boomers", holy fuck, they actually wrote meaningful characters and it works. A miracle!
It's amazing what hiring competent writers that are willing to tell a story and follow a established universe of lore can do, as opposed to getting some writers that have a story and want to shoehorn it into a universe of, just a game, can do .
Hum as much as the Star Wars sequels have many issues, Rey's gender and Finn's skin color have no impact whatsoever on the story. Actually, it has become the new norm to write genderblind and colorblind stories, whether people want to admit it or not. Rewatch 2000s cartoons in comparison to notice how things have changed.
Fallout was a love letter to it's fans, Halo took a shit on it's fans and catered to diversity... Pretty easy to figure out why one failed and one didn't.
Imagine a helljumpers show about ODSTs band of brothers style in a similar way as the halo 3 ODST promotional clips, would be very cool
Both destroyed previous lore
@zenniz1992 nah its canon, unfortunately.
@@archdornan8349who's zenniz?
@russianoverkill3715 He said the show wasn't canon. Deleted his comment I think
@@archdornan8349 huh, guess you can say Bethesda games aren't canon too
@russianoverkill3715 honestly, i wish they weren't 🤣
Because the average Fallout fan doesn't actually understand or know much about the Fallout universe versus the average Halo fan who has studied Halo extensively.
The Fallout show took far too many liberties in the lore for my liking but they got away with it because its a lesser known franchise in terms of lore availability and clarity. So people are more easily willing to roll with it or take it for gospel.
Easy explanation.
I think part of it is some people are above average intelligence and recognize things like how superficial Cold Fusion is in Fallout compared to teleportation or lifelike robots. They even had small cartridge type fusion power reactors in the series that powered whole vaults, that were not considered “Cold Fusion”
Some things in the Fallout series aren’t entirely out of left field though. I mean maybe the execution wasn’t great but NCR was having problems because they gobbled up land and resources left and right leading up to Fallout New Vegas, and possibly beyond that as well, depending on the ending, but the Lucky 38 neon sign not being lit and the vertibird wreckage near New Vegas leads me to think Vegas became mostly abandoned some point after the second battle of Hoover Dam. All in all, the show gives an epilogue to the West Coast and New Vegas, while the games will go on to explore new places like Texas, Michigan, etc.
lol no you’re wrong. It doesn’t take that many liberties that were harsh. At worst the writers made a brief mistake but are well intentioned. The showrunner and the main writer like fallout, the showrunner specifically said he played the original fallout games in college. Nolan played the newer games but still likes the universe. That is the main difference between the two. One is well intended the other is not.
No its more about the whole idea of bombing own citizen to make your product have a meaning like shelter, supplies, weapons, ammo, other survivial gear. How many wars usa started just to sell their own tanks and weapons. The show shows exacly that, we want to build expensive vaults for humans to survive...but whats the point of using so much money if there is no guarantee that atomic bomb would drop to give those vaults any meaning. Since we have wars and nuclear threats almost daily it kinda reflects on the idea, who would profit from pushing that red button. Personaly I would love to see some scenes of people rushing to the vaults..then the doors shut and we see the 219years later sign.
I wholeheartedly agree! The people who say this is a faithful adaptation don't know the lore
@@Zibi21 That doesn’t even prove they pulled the trigger. For all anyone knows there was just a knowledge of how bad the resource shortages and the economies were. If there’s a nuke threat that alone means close to nothing by itself. But if there is a genuine economic doom with no real prospects of getting out of the resource depletion, then society will not go forward without severe tragedy. The only reasons why nuke threats are as they are is because we in the general public don’t see a lot of what is actually happening. In Fallout, the threat was deemed credible because they weren’t finding a relief from depleted amounts of oil and precious metals, along with actual food supplies coming up short with no apparent solution in sight. Some of this information wouldn’t be known with clarity to the general public, but like insurance The Government and Defense Contractors like Vault Tec would know the possibility was overwhelming that a nuke would happen. The entire plot of New Vegas revolves around the nukes happening sooner than House expected so he was prevented from getting his platinum chip, hence the other events that followed.
Lucy and Maximus are the Rey and Finn that Star Wars never got.
nah maximus is an unlikable little shit throughout and Lucy was cool until the end where she just becomes another plot puppet with no agency and just excepts that the sadistic murderer Moldaver is right and betrays her dad in like the span of 1 minute for the sake of the plot.
To quote Tod Howard "it just works"
The Fallout show has turned the timeline into a convoluted clusterfuck like Kingdom Hearts that no one is able to figure out. Thanks a bunch Todd.
Both are mediocre.
One of the biggest problems in modern society is how mediocrity has not only become acceptable, but the norm.
You're going to see some people defend bad media more than they would defend their own family. See the Fallout's show atm. Or Star Wars Outlaws.
Fallout is above mediocre, its not a masterpiece but its pretty darn close, I wouldn't hold anything against people that consider it a masterpiece. There could have been a Fallout game with the main story just like Lucy had and the world does feel like a fallout world. The first episode is also superb in introducing people into the Fallout world, it just feels exactly right
Star Wars Outlaws is not even released so how could you know it's gonna be bad ?
And what you point out is actually older than you think. Look at how many people praise shitty movies from the 90s and 2000s just because they are nostalgic.
My wife was against watching the Fallout show because it was based on a video game and thought it would be dumb. Not only did we watch every episode together, she now started her first run in Fallout 4.
Thanks for the review. Despite not being a gamer, I enjoyed Fallout Season One but struggle to wade through Halo Season One. Having scriptwriters and showrunners who know and love the material is important.
Because Halo is woke trash
Some people were complaining that Fallout was woke for no reason before it gets released. That's the anti-woke grift: if a show/video game/movie is successful, then ofc it was never woke! Spider-Verse is the perfect example of this, Baldur's Gate 3 as well.