Sajam Reads Domination 101 Pt. 1 | "You Can Lead a Scrub to Water, But You Can't Make 'Em Think"
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- streamed June 18, 2020
Featured article: shoryuken.com/2...
You can find links to all the Domination 101 articles on the Rising Thunder Wiki: risingthunder....)
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Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste:
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#FGC
Seth Killian being able to shorted to "S.KilLL" feels like his parents knew he was gonna train in fighting games
I just realized it.
S-kill from divekick is meant to be seth killian.
@@detectivehermes1013 Yeah, indeed S-Kill makes the hand pose he uses to use his stick
the S in S.KILL stands for Savage
@@detectivehermes1013 he also has his hands crossed over each other because that's how he uses a traditional layout stick.
@@letmeshowumypkmn it's his tier
This is Seth Killian at his most powerful, possessed by the Satsui No Hado.
dude Seth has no chill lmfao
It’s amazing Seth was so important to this game series he had a character named after him
he worked in the making of SF4.
It did get me asking "where's Cain"!? (note: Seth was also Cain and Abel's brother, but Seth doesn't do anything in that plot.)
@kmden Rt What do you mean?
@@panicdp5606 the world may never know
@@panicdp5606 what did he say?
I don't know who hurt him, but he replied with a rocket launcher.
That's why the daigo parry and similar moments are so unbelievable. You could get down the inputs for it in like 3 hours, but the ability to block all the noise in your head and in your hands caused by the environment and actually perform it is inhuman
Especially before anyone was even thinking about the game in that way. That's what sends me, few people was seriously parrying until #37, and Daigo just pulled this clutch shit out of his ass like he was Goku in a DBZ movie.
Moment 37 got a lot of people into Third Strike. Recently I watched the 2019 UNIST top 8 and it makes me tempted to play Seth even though I’m still working on motion inputs. It’s because Oushuu-Hittou did crazy mix ups where he darted around the screen canceling specials into specials into specials.
It was weird because I kinda just saw his darting around as “just Seth things” then the analyst commented on what Oushuu-Hittou was doing and I was amazed because I remembered the inputs for the moves being done.
The armchair DP is the strongest of all DPs
I like self insert in the reverse. “Holy shit, I wouldn’t have hit that” communicates his awe rlly well
The League of Legends community needs this article so badly
You forgot they can't read
@@perilousloki4712 But they sure can type.
It has come to the point where I'd mute any toxic people immediately, even those on my own team. I'm there to enjoy myself, and I'm not gonna let some Donnie Downer ruin my leisure.
I doubt a game with 50x the playerbase of the current FGC gives a shit about a few unbathed autists, and pseudo elitists playing smash and street fighter in some janitorial closet every weekend.
And lookout cupcake. In a year or two Riots community will BE 98% of the FGC
It doesn't since 99,9% of them think ranked is a competitive environment.
I was running weekly tournaments for CIS scene in first 2 seasons, every time there were 1 or 2 teams for whom it was a first experience and most of them didn't make a 2nd try because they were slammed to dirt.
"Why didn't they just BLANK" commentary is my least favorite thing to hear.
In the specific Scrub tone of voice, or also if voiced as a question? 'Cause sometimes I don't understand the hidden details of the FGC mindgames, so I ask to try and figure it out.
If it's another proven player? I don't mind so much, as long as it's not constant. If it's just a random scrub commentating? It's very annoying.
On the flip side, I quite like variations of "I got hit", where they recognise that playing is tough, and the people on stage were either impressive for not getting hit, or perfectly normal for getting hit.
"I don't understand why both players didn't play perfectly 100% of the time"
This just further explains why Daigo’s EVO moment is that much more impressive. Everything on the line, tournament jitters, and he pulls out the sickest fucking parry combo kill ever. It’s not that what he did is hard, it’s that he did it in tournament during grand finals with everything on the line.
Coming from an arm chair DP, it’s crazy impressive.
It wasnt grands but i agree
It's really not that crazy, to him it's just a game. He doesn't think anything special. That's so egomaniacal to think they have all of that in mind in every game.
someone send this article to LTG
This is one of the most serious takes on a non serious topic I've ever read.
Depends on the person.
Forums were a different breed
@@bogeyt15games55 so true. It was a brutal era...and it was beautiful
I was in the finals of some small dbfz tournament held in my city, it really wasn't anything big but I was playing against my best friend in finals who at the time I usually beat 4/5 times when we played. I had tien in my team and like an idiot because I wanted to win so bad and I was so nervous I used up all my bar with Tien's level 3 extension to kill his point character, sacrificing almost all my tien's health in the final match of the set and it lost me the tournament. I know it wasn't anything big like Evo top 8 but I think I felt a glimpse of those nerves in that moment.
Tournament play is a whole different beast, forreal. Street Fighter? I've been to enough tournaments to play at like 70% of my full potential while nervous. I can do okay. But last year when I picked up Mortal Kombat for the first time? Man... even those little PS4 Online Tournaments they hold(Challenger League I think?) had me SHAKING! Its a different ball game entirely.
Those tournament nerves are brutal. First tournament, first game, Problem X on stream infront of all the top EU players, with some top international players for good measure.
Felt like my heart was going to explode until the match started.
It's the Dunning Krueger effect for fighting games
Dunning-Krueger effect is one of the most overlooked concepts that would improve humanity if people would just take 5 minutes a day to consider that maybe they’re not as smart or talented as others because they haven’t even put in 1/10th the work
@@2000Doriyas I think for fighting games, it comes from a place of insecurity or a bullied past. They don't want people to consider them bad in the slightest because they've seen REALLY bad players that don't even know lingo, or a basic set up. It takes a different effect because fighting games are niche. So, those that are capable and have potential think higher of themselves for their achievements. In some cases it keeps people going and for others to wither away like dandelions in a tornado. Of course, I'm talking more for intermediate players.
@@2000Doriyas word
Every time i hear someone mention the doning kruger effect a braincell inside of me dies
You guys are like the weed that keeps on popping up no matter how many you pull out
Seriously u guys are worse than any scrub
Went to EVO once and made it out the first day on winners side in Xrd and I immediately stormed up to my room to perform combos I had dropped all day--not to practice, but to somehow prove to myself that the monitors or controller adapters had lag or something.
Savage Killian, in the fgc golden days even someone as mild as him had to adapt to the environment.
Talking about tournament pressure and how serious it is makes you be more impressed with Arslan Ash during his Evo Japan 2019 run. Dude is bonkers going through all that.
This. Tekken performance in general is completely insane given how strong so much of the competition is, especially Korea and now the UAE. Seeing that kind of work done in those tournies is awesome.
Digishade everybody’s different though, that might’ve lit such a fire in him that nerves weren’t a factor. Who knows though 🤷🏼♂️ it’s a case by case basis
Hah, people get so upset about these articles. I first read these back in 2010 shortly after i found the competitive scene for sf4 and was A: An awful player and B: A total scrub, who spent all my in game time mashing, and all my between games going 'waaah, whatever i lost to is not fair' and absolutely none of my time reflecting on my own mistakes or actively trying to improve.
I read his articles and it was a complete watershed in how i thought. "They can do everything i can do, if i lost that's on my lack of execution, my lack of thought, my lack of preparation, my lack of knowledge". I really doubt i would have taken on board what he was saying if he tried to hold my hand and be all nice about it. The derision with which he showed me to be sabotaging my own improvement with my own flawed thought process hit home in a way nothing else would have. It may not have that effect for everyone but i'm sure it works for a lot of people.
Also... this was 2002... on internet message boards, a harsh and hyper critical place.... in the FGC, at the time one of the harshest and hyper critical communities. The games tell someone "you're a loser" every 60 seconds or so. If you asked how to do something in game people laughed at you so they could keep beating you. People shook arcade cabinets to make people drop combos. Hell top players didn't even speak to you until they thought you were good.
The modern FGC is much different, and i'm glad for that, the 'help each other get good' stuff is great. Just don't try apply modern sensibilities to articles that are old enough to buy a drink in most countries...
jesus the 02 fgc community sounds like shitland
Back in the arcade days there were real life fist fights over throws. There were even “house rules” like if you threw your opponent gets a full combo on you.
I found an easy way to play at tournament is to identify the killers in your bracket and the no name players. Then just go absolute ape on the scrubs until proven otherwise. Treat it like a match with a friend. Cuts down on the stress and lets you get that high execution stuff off a lot easier than being in focus mode 100% of the time. Or just playing a couple friendlies beforehand works wonders as well.
I feel like the moral of nearly every Sajam video is keep it simple and prioritise mindful neutral over long combos.
Brian F made a video titled ''why I don't optimize my combos'' it's pretty much sums up the concept of not wasting resources and bars for the flashy combo that doesn't kill anyway.
This is the greatest article in the FGC I’ve ever read.
0:25 People to this day would cry like litle babys if you zone them, they would call you a bitch, tell you that you spam, and discredit any acomplishment a players has if he plays a zoner, cause zoning dosent take "skill". The zoning hating scrub is the most anoying prebalent scrub in any fighter with a projectile.
I Agree people need to adapt, but it is interesting to note that the zoner archetype is design to induce anger. like the grappler is designed to induce fear. So I can see why people generally hate dealing with zoning.
@@blackmaej3623 Yeah zonners prey on the oponents inpantience, but that dosent mean you have to be a shit in real life. I hated getting zoned out too, me main gets zoned out pritty badly be a certain character, so i have pocket for that match up.
Injustice and Injustice 2 would like to have a word with this thread.
Here from the future to let people know Seth is now director of the games division at Netflix. What a ride.
No wonder he was such a great character in DiveKick.
Around me it's completely opposite. I want to sell my friends on FGs, they watch me play or a interesting match, they're just like: too hard for me, I can't do shit, nope.
2D games: Try demoing a match with only jump-in, sweeps and throws.
3D games: Give them a "top ten moves" video for a character they're looking at.
But if they still aren't convinced well, it's a mentality problem. Some people are just the bad kind of competitive. "I don't feel like playing unless I'm already good."
Or, in the case of my one friend: "the game is broken!" Now I don't doubt that games mechanics can be poorly-made, but when these complaints only- and I do mean only- come out when he is losing (which is when I finally get wise to his tricks and change my play-style accordingly), it doesn't sound believable. I still haven't forgiven him making me buying DBFZ on release day (against my best judgement) and dropping it a week later because he could no longer wipe the floor with me. The moment I began to even the score, suddenly, there were a million problems with the game that magically weren't there when he was winning. He was done entirely when I began to pull ahead. Same with Smash bros. Ultimate, only I told him not to get it because I knew what the outcome would be, and he did anyway. Same exact outcome. His tricks don't work, so he loses most matches, and that means the game is broken. Not a peep out of him when he does win though.
I think that’s most of us 😆
We all have friends that can’t put CoD down and won’t even try a fg
@@noboty4168 my cousin is not a big fan of fighting games, but he does like NRS games a lot (so do I. injustice 1 is one of my favourite fighting games of all time) So he got Mortal Kombat 11 and played it for almost a year. Last year i had the opportunity to play with him and i don't really like Mortal Kombat, but I have been trying to get him to play other fighting games with me like skullgirls, TFH, DBFZ and even Injustice 2 (which is a game that he likes). So now he has a fighting game that he's actually passionate about, i thought, i am not gonna lose this opportunity to play with my cousin just because I don't really like Mortal Kombat.
So we get into the game and i pick subzero, because that's who I played in MK9. I learned that his back 2 was pretty strong and I learned a single combo for him, A combo that was just: jump in, string, iceball, jump in, same string, slide. Then we go play i get absolutely beat up. i got beat 1-40 on the first day. i lost 40 matches straight, i beat him once and i was like "that's it for today I'm done". The next day i decide that i didn't like subzero very much and i wanna find a different character. i tested out a few characters but eventually I landed on Jackie Briggs. i practiced a combo with her for like 10 minutes and went to play. i got beat up again, but this time i didn't win a single match. On the third day i practiced on my own for a while, i discovered a few things with Jackie, like her back 3 4 string which starts with a low and is plus on block. Keep in mind that i still don't know any of the system mechanics of MK11. Since I never did the tutorial. i don't even know how meter works in that game. On this day we played again but this time i beat him 20-2. I had practiced and it had payed off, i finally beat him. On the fourth day i asked him to play again and he didn't want to. I asked him what was wrong and he said that he didn't like playing against me because Jackie Briggs was broken and he would just get beat up. This absolutely blew my mind. he really liked MK11 and i learned how to play the game just so i could play with him, i spent a ton of time practicing just so i could make the matches interesting for him and i wouldn't get beaten up everytime. So when I finally got good enough to start enjoying the game and start putting up an actual fight, he quits. It immediately became clear to me that the reason he didn't want to play FGs with me was because I was better than him. he didn't want to try and learn a game when I was already better than him. So when I started leaning this new game that i had never played before and he had a 1 year headstart on me he was having fun, but only while he could wipe the floor with me. When I got good enough to be able to beat him he stopped having fun and just quit playing.
I was watching some online match between Xiaohai and some other guy in KOF 2002 and Xiaohai did a crossup HK and then just sat there in block and punished his opponent's DP and that just blew my mind as something I would never think of doing
These articles are legendary. I remember quoting some in a class presentation I did way back in the day
Amazing. I understood the pressure thing immediately. I'm learning SFV from a position of not only mechanically starting over on keyboard with a HitBox layout, but actually getting into FGC details with this as my first game in it & preparing for SF6. I've done a bunch of combo trials, BUT IMMEDIATELY in Easy Survival, I couldn't remember to pull of shit with the smallest amount of variables lobbed at me. It's this game that after decades, has caused me to seriously think of quitting caffeine. All it's done is increase anxiety & the possibility I'll get angry, & it's slowly been cornered out of my life & only while at home.
I think it's funny 'cause I'm nowhere near being even an average player. For real, I'm bad. I'm new to FGs and all that jazz. But watching footage of top players has only humbled me, 'cause I when I try to do what I see, even when I know the commands, I'm nowhere near as consistent or as insightful. And I always try to be really aware of the build up, the little things. Is like watching boxing. The knockout punch wouldn't be there if it weren't for the foot play, and these small interactions are so much more fascinating. One of the biggest selling points on playing FGs imo is being forced to confront your own shortcomings and owning up your mistakes. If you feel you're better than the top players you're watching, then why the hell are you wasting your time watching them for? You go, girl, win yourself some evos.
I really feel you on the boxing analogy. I'm constantly backing up watching the footwork and distancing over and over again.
7:26 I agree with the self insert stuff but I think it's about the way you word it. Something such as "why didn't he do x" comes across quite differently than "If x had taken place y would have happened" one is more of a self insert one is good analysis showing less skilled or knowledgeable viewers how the outcome could have been changed. Although I can understand how sometimes in the heat of the moment while commentating this gets accidentally lost. I think this distinction and other small ones like it can make or break a good commentator.
This is why I prefer to discuss matches with my brother and cant stand some commentary. You have a situation where guy wakeup dp’s, opponent hits cr.mk too soon so it whiffs under, first guy tries to punish with long poke, second guy jumps over poke, first guy doesnt anti air and gets hit. I say omg that scramble was nutty first guy needs to regain composure after that one. Commentators “HOW DID HE NOT ANTI AIR?!” Ugh.
My first torunament was Evo 2013. My first match in MvC3 was Mine (2012 Top 8) on stage. Peak brain-dead nerve overload in that match. Fortunately UltraChen were gentle to me on commentary.
What do you mean your first tournament was evo2013 but your first match was a year earlier at a tournament where you got top 8?
@@K-R-T One year late - but they were merely mentioning that their first opponent in evo 2013 was a guy who made it to the top 8 in 2012
The first thing I thought about, Sajam. Was when you tell viewers how to practice and how not to lose to things. You literally show how to whiff pubish and frame trap and ppl still are lost. hence the title.
Naruto Storm Community in a nutshell
The tournament nerves are incredibly severe especially for first time. I remember when I went to Hypespotting in the SF4 days my Juri was looking so clean in the casual matches prior to the event kicking off and first match the dude I was against immediately locked in Juri and it mind fucked me so hard I played Cody for the rest of my pool 😂
Should do some more of these, this was enlightening
I went to my first major, ECT 2019 for bbtag. I was used to playing BOOM,Antiquarian,Diaphone etc often. All the way up until top 8 on stage I felt good, calm. I was used to playing brackets etc. But this was my first time on a STAGE. With a lot of people watching..... I was so absolutely nervous I was surprised I even won my first game on stage. Then ooooh god. I got put against boom next for 5th place slot and boy oh boy I was like ok. I may not win I may but this is someone I play ALL THE TIME. I shouldn't as nervous.. But by the time I sat down... I was nothing but. Lmao. It was a great experience. I was super excited to go to my next one but yeah covid happened lol. Plus 2.0 tag kind of lost a good chunk of us anyway.
I think, on commentary side, there's some merit to discussing strategic decisions that a player is or isn't making. Like "it feels odd that they're going with X when they have a Y that's a much better matchup. I wonder if they're not warmed up with them?"
that said, all dropped combos are actually attempted resets. at least when i'm on the mic
When you say it like that, it does have strategic/learning value. I think I've actually heard commentators on some match videos go "*I* would've blocked/DP that" and similar things which (like the article says) don't teach anyone anything.
I like "wow, I would've gotten hit by that" because what probably just happened was some sick crossup/reset that I should rewind a bit to see it again--and that the defender blocking it in a tournament setting was amazing for having pulled it off.
@@malcovich_games the only time i go personal on commentary is saying stuff like "i would've gotten hit by that" cuz that kind of commentary gives more credit to the player
Have you looked at Playing to Win? I know Sirlin's rep is not as high as Seth's, but the articles are really good and also come from the perspective of a time when people didn't really understand competitive gaming.
Much more pleasant to read as well.
I keep forgetting that Sirlin and Seth Killian aren’t the same person “Rising Thunder : Domination 101” “Fantasy Strike : Playing to Win”
Fuck, I almost mixed up the respective articles names while typing that out
As someone trying to learn to play fighting games, you go in thinking you're daigo. You know the combos,know the lingo and you gonna dominate; then you lose to a guy that just uses fireball fullscreen. It's a shitty realization tbh xD
he right, that hindsight DP is 100% unblockable
0:29 literally had someone crying to me about fireballs on mortal Kombat 11 today. The scrubs
GOD DAMNNNED this is Good....
"No investigation, no right to speak."
He has a PHD in Philosophy. He has to let all his evil out somehow when not Zen.
Hi
I feel like a little bit of me was absolutely bodied, murdered and thrown into the river after watching this video
To be fair, SF4 combos were exceptionally harder than SF5. It's the difference between requiring 100's of hours to learn a new character vs 10's of hours in SF5.
Sf5 is my first fighting game and not my last
I've made a lot of improvements recently after probably a year or 2 enabled by karin and losing to ken's
As soon as I started analysing my gameplay and pros I started to realise my mistakes and understand the inner workings I didn't realise
I'm now silver rank and wish I took it more seriously before now
This article is gold.
It's kind of funny because I love these articles but generally don't enjoy Seth's commentary at all.
>Dada read me a bedtime story ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
>This ಠ_ಠ
I remember reading those articles so long ago, why am i still a scrub =(
People remember the flashy moves' rather than the simple
Rising thunder link in the description is broken. Missing a ) at the end.
I just found this video now that shoryuken is dead the links to the article is dead as well :(
Anybody know if these were archived somewhere?
Use wayback machine. Just Google it
People should be forced to read this (maybe at gunpoint) before they get a license for Twitch chat.
Question: am I a scrub if I Hindsight DP MYSELF. Like, I watch a replay of my match where this guy keeps jumping at me and I just don't anti-air the guy, and when I try it, he blows me up, so I go full (how did he say it?) "Merle" on myself.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the article is about criticizing others unfairly
It's good to know he's not talking about yourself. I take pride in sucking at fighting games.
It's a good article even though I am not usually comfortable with reading distasteful text with harsh wording in it
I probably couldnt win even if I knew every move the opponent is going to make in advance lol
Fighting Game historian Sajam to read us some good night stories ❤️
Wow, Seth can be this savage...
Shin Killian
Can someone explain hindsight dp? It’s very interesting concept but I want to make sure my speculation of what I think it is is right.
Its the idea that in a lot of situations, like when the opponent swings on you waking up trying to meaty you, you “SHOULD” use an invincible dragon punch if your character has it. The problem is while you were waking up you had no idea whether or not your opponent was swinging, or if they planned on baiting out the dp. So a lot of scrubs will call out every time a dp could have worked or doesnt work, without acknowledging the player was working with incomplete information, playing a 50/50 mixup. Its the equivalent of calling heads in heads or tails, flipping the coin, landing tails, and then having some dummy say “should have called tails”
Hindsight is 20/20
Seth K with the bolo tie 👍
3:07 Did Sajam just make the Roblox oof sound?
Great article
In my first bb tournament I lost 1-2 set 1 against a guy that played multiple fighters competitively. He switched from playing high tier (jin) to top tier (koko) and I was salty af after lol BUT we played again after the tournament and I had my comeback
I feel personally attacked.
I'm confused. Is he talking to Merle? Or to Cletus?
aw man, the articles seem to be gone :(
Fucking brutal.
Some of these quotes are so based. This is such a hateful tone lol but it's honestly sick lmao.
glad he got therapy I guess?
Someone please tell me these articles were archived somewhere
Is this still available anywhere?
What does "you can lead a scrub to water but you can't make them think" mean?
basically the point of the article is people are getting handed preme tournament footage but they dont do anything with it and just use it to prove a point or something like that
original quote went something like: “you can lead a man to water but you cant make him drink”
this article explains almost every interaction ive ever had with a smash fan.
People don't play fighting games.
Only a few minutes into that article and I can only think how learning ACTUAL FIGHTING has taught me to watch competition matches at least twice- once to see what people are doing and figure that out, but also to figure out WHY they did what they did at that particular moment in time. And if I couldn't figure that out, maybe I should ask. Scrubs really can't figure out that's the real point of watching these things?
I feel kinda guilty since for this type of videos I just read the article and close the youtube tab.
You don't watch the vid so he can read it for you, you watch it so you see his take / overview on the article wile reading key statements.
(this is what I understood after reading your comment)
Now if you don't care about that by all means just read the article lol.
Nothing wrong with that!
lol i was that scrub at 16
The FGC would be better without the "nothing is cheap, if it's in the game it's fine" mentality. Especially since it developed in a time when serious issues with games often went unpatched.
That article seemed unnecessarily hostile, more a ventpost than anything else.
Who hurt this man?
Though in all honesty I'm not sure who this article would even be for a bit. I mean it seems like it wants to be for those looking to learn. But I don't think those looking to learn want to be well quite literally talked down to as the writer boasts about how much more knowledgeable they are.
He’s tapping into the excuse-making scrub deep down in each of us.
Yes, you too, scrub.
Even willing to learn, somtimes we just have those "I could've DP'd that" thoughts.
It's definitely not for those who want to learn. This is to get into the skin of those scrubs who are too proud to realize how inadequate they really are. They'll get mad, insulted, and either they'll tune it out entirely and continue to be a scrub, or let those "hurtful words" absorb a bit, and maybe some of that razor-tainted knowledge will seep in and plant a seed that just might sprout into a moment of clarification. And maybe it'll be watered and bloom into realization and bare the fruit of wisdom.
Cite me when you quote this. :)
Back in the arcade days, he might of actually gotten assaulted by a scrub. Its was rough back then
My favorite commentator comment is when the announcer says "yeah I got hit by that"