But Did It "Really" Happen? | Alex O'Connor
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- Опубліковано 23 тра 2024
- Here is a clip from our most recent podcast with Alex O'Connor. In it, he and Dr. Peterson discuss the Bible through a historic and mythological lens, exploring how both are deeply intertwined.
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Alex: but did it actually happen?
Jordan: Yesn't
Lol
Maybe an example that is illuminating would be a psychological trip in psychedelics whereby a person sees a snake squishing a person and removing what is symbolic "dark energy", and then the person being free of addiction. Did that really happen? Yesn't. One doesn't need to say that in the everyday sense there was a snake who did that or provide scientific compatibility with literal snakes in our everyday sense, and yet it wasn't merely a symbolic representation of a nothingness, it was the symbolic representation of an actuality which as lived in and had "real" effects. It would be odd to say nothing happened(lack of reality), or that because the snake was not like the biological snakes that it either wasn't a snake, or it wasn't. If asked, the person would probably say it did happen but not in the sense you are asking. Peterson probably sees the burning bush in such a matter.
@Phantom_madman Hahaha😂
As a lobster what do you mean by 'jordan'?
😅😅😅
I live for the day when JP asks "what do you mean by "mean", EXACTLY?"
This was so damn good. I was blown away
lol
"It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is" - Bill Clinton
Technically?
He said it already in some interview
*THERE IS A HIERARCHY OF MEMES*
Was looking for this comment lol
Philosoraptor memes are S tier
The ones on the top are Cat Memes.
I think it's called a "Tierlist"
@someguy4405/// yes indeed.
3:55 “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
Exactly what I was thinking
"I have... things to do...." Puts hand in pocket.
@@Isabelle64449 can you explain that expression to my below 70 IQ brain
@@Frodo1000000 Peterson doesn't know Dawkins as much as he would like, but the little bit Peterson does know about Dawkins, Peterson (sort of) likes more than Dawkins deserves.
Not sure if that is what Peterson was trying to say there. I believe he's pointing out that he's more aware of Dawkins knowing things that he doesn't than the other way around. In other, blunter words, Dawkins could use some more humility.
@@MrD3000 Peterson knows about, how little he knows about Dawkins, more than how little Dawkins knows, how little he knows about Peterson. And so Dawkins assumes he knows everything about Peterson, while Peterson understands, he knows only a fraction of the underlying thought processes that Dawkins has, to accumulate his knowledge and worldviews. Which is not a good basis for an open conversation.
“Christians have a metaphysics that’s not Christian.” You can’t end the clip there!!
I agree. By far the most important utterance of the video...
In the full interview, that line of think doesn’t go any further. The point is merely that the Christians who are saying such things are not actually operating on Christian metaphysics when they do.
Don't worry, it didn't get any better.
He basically just throws Christians under the bus for a minute and then word salads back to lobster town.
Just for clarification, I think Peterson says: "Christians **who ask that** have a metaphysics that's not Christian." But yes....point still stands. You are correct.
Oh you mean bcs it is intrinsically of greco-roman origin? or avestan? or even vedic? or sumerian pagan? and on and on until we realize they all were just products of human imaginations.
This kid must be certified brilliant. 25 years old and he's the first one to get JP to give an answer on this?? Crazy.
He’s a great UA-camr
Nope. He's an artificially propped up atheist activist. No different than most "famous" people who push ideas most people dont buy
Uh, how so?..
He spews the same lazy technocratic, materialistic and fatalistic BS Dawkins and others do. He wants to be the next big smug atheist bullshitter that just says:
"No,"
"No"
"No" and
"No some more."
@@whynot1548 I was watching him before this
He’s one of the only ones who is genuinely willing to get JP to answer the question clearly and not mask it in the vague mystery that he has in the past
Appreciate Alex asking him this.
I'd appreciate it more if Jordan gave him a straight answer
@@sametheremuircroft5975
It doesn't matter what answer he gives. That atheist doesn't want to hear the answers to his questions.
"Professing to be wise they became fools."
@@romulus3345 but he hasn't really answered the question. As a Christian, I can at least tell people what I believe without resorting to semantics, did it happen or not?
@@sametheremuircroft5975why? why would you assume Peterson should answer the way you do?
why? its a dumb question
Ok, as a former evangelical I’m floored by JP saying “well I don’t think it really matters to people”. Excuse me? It definitely mattered to me. I really believed that all of the clearly non-symbolic stuff actually happened. And those beliefs had a huge impact on my life because I took it seriously.
I went into the ministry and later moved overseas to start a ministry because I believed the events in the Bible actually happened as described and it stoked my zeal to serve God. I sacrificed a lot, and I mean a lot, because I believed everything the Bible said actually happened. If I had believed that some of the most theologically pivotal events are symbolism, or archetypes, or what have you, I would have never ever done that.
But that’s the point, I used to believe while salvation is a free gift, being a real disciple of Christ is meant to cost a lot. You are supposed to pick up your cross, die to yourself every day, crucify the flesh, and be a servant (slave) to Christ. You have to love Jesus so much that you are ready to die for him. Why would anyone do that if they didn’t believe the events in the Bible actually happened? THAT is why it matters if it actually happened.
If you are just a Sunday Christian you have the luxury of this approach, but if you actually want to be the real deal and live like the early disciples, it demands everything of you. Again I speak from experience. People who've never been in the ministry just don't understand the load you carry.
When I was losing my faith I looked into this symbolic approach and progressive Christianity but it just seemed like more make believe than fundamentalism. Either shit or get off the pot. So I got off the pot. I had too much respect for that way of thinking to dull it down just because I wanted to cling to something I could no longer believe in.
Now I know that a lot of the church fathers interpreted lots of passages symbolically, but growing up as an evangelical it was drummed into me that unless it actually happened, it doesn’t really matter.
Anyways, people can believe what and how they want, but I guess still in my mind “real” Christianity actually means believing that when it says something happened, you believe it actually did. That’s why I find JP's saying "I don't think it matters to people" so staggering. Yes it matters a whole hell of a lot of people.
Myth became fact.
So you went from “im a sinner” to “im not a sinner”… i wonder why? It’s obvious why people deconstruct their faith, one is you never had the Holy Spirit and knew Jesus rose from the dead because if you did.. that doesnt change yesterday today and forever.
So it’s completely fair to say you never knew Jesus was risen 100% as a real believer. I hope you do..
@@jakeschwartz2514 It's certainly not fair to say that if you read what this man said, On the other hand, it's perfectly fair to say that you're just stuck in a delusion.
@@wildomegamusic Yes indeed. For as much as religious conservatives in the US talk about how much they love the Constitution and they love freedom, they often want to take away freedom from others because they can't stand other people "sinning".
@@paulbracken6216 Yes and it took me a long time to see that. I have a banger of a quote from Paul Tillich saved in my notes:
"Fundamentalism has demonic aspects, in that it splits the conscience of its thoughtful adherents and forces them to repress knowledge of which they are secretly aware. "
Alex is right. Dr.Peterson has a tendency to extrapolate to an extreme degree. When most people ask if he thinks something literally happened, they want to know if it really happened. If he doesn’t know, then just say I don’t know. Dr. Peterson is extrapolating to an extreme degree. It’s useful, and has opened me up religion long after I threw it out. Because he’s talking about it analogously and symbolically, it strikes a chord with me. But his intelligence is a barrier when being asked a simple question by simple people. He sort of answers, no one knows here, at least.
It's not so much "simple people" as it is people whom live regular lives and don't have time to set around and contemplating everything. These 2 have too much time on their hands.
@@CarportCarl maybe. Maybe that plus 30-45 iq points. They’re certainly using their time more wisely than me right now.
@@andrewwabik5125 Very possible, but as a 40 year Bible believing Christian you read the Bible as 100% literally until the text indicates a story or symbolism. This eliminates confusion. You also need to understand the Bible was written trying to reach people across all of time. There is a dispensation approach in scripture.
@andrewwabik5125 I literally just said this in another video in a way less articulate way. As much as I love JP he can sometimes seem to over think or analyze things, and there comes a time where things become black and white enough for "you" to make a choice about what you "believe" (put faith in) and "trust" to be true. At some point even the greatest minds, like JP, have glossed over information for ages and came to different conclusions...
Dr Peterson, have you had lunch today? "Well that depends on what you mean by lunch"
Me, the intellectual thinking for the first seconds of the video that they are discussing the culture of memes😅
They are. It’s just that the candified version is what is happening online and currently.
"Intellectual" is actually an insult, because they were despicable people. Reference "The Intellectuals" by Paul Johnson.
@@3vil3lvis who was despicable?
Me too.
me three.
Love that Jordan has found his favorite jacket for all of his religious chats. He's all in.
Yes it did really happen. -Paul
Citation needed
@@johnjameson6751
APA Style (4th ed.)
The Holy Bible: King James Version. 1995 (electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version.). Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Сору
Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand.
~ Margery Williams, "The Velveteen Rabbit"
the Velveteen Rabbit. Love it
Beautiful 🌿
good god that's profound for a childrens book
Real recognize real
Jesus said that unless you change and become like a child, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. I love how God hides the most beautiful gems in the small, unassuming places. As the saying goes, he uses fools and little children. 🌿🐇
I'm more aware of the things he knows that I don't know that he is of the things that I know that he doesn't know.-JP
a puzzle for the ages
I mean...it's not a puzzle...it's a tongue twister but makes perfect sense lol @MsElke11
What a sentence, my people... What a sentence...
As a lobster i demand adequate representation in this discussion!
s/that he is/than he is/
Finally Alex is the only person who challenged Peterson's question where he says "What do you mean if it happened?". It's a straight forward question that implies whether what Bible claims historycally to happen actually happened!
But did he get an answer?😂
@@reeb9016 Yes he said "No, I don't believe it was real".
No. Thats wasn't an answer because he was contradicting what is in the word as he doesn't see it as real.
He answered these questions many times. But you don't hear his answer you just want to trap him in his words. If you BELIEVE it's real but do the sins they did in your life, you don't believe it's real. If you take them as an example of what will happen to those who live ungodly and repent then you believe it and you will be blessed. Is it real? You have to answer that for yourself. Jordan knows who he is.
It's a dumb question
Like Norm Mcdonald said: "these stories may not be factual, but they are true"
Smart guy our Norm.
@@lonergraphics4087 R.I.P.
I would love to have seen a Norm Jordan conversation
@@alancooper5009 Norm has given Jordan Peterson a shoutout on Twitter. That's as far as I know of their interactions.
Oh this one is factual just do a little digging and you'll see.
The Word became flesh, and dwelt amount us. We got our metaphysics figured out just fine. It’s both and… really not as complicated a you want it to be, but at the same time completely mysterious to us and beyond our comprehension… miraculous. The relationship between God and man bridges the gap between the physical and the spiritual. It also transcends time and space. They are both true, and happen in concert with one another. You can’t have one without the other. Past, present and future.
yes, I Am became man, Hym- expressed outward. hallal u YaH and Ahmyn 💜
Bang on . Couldn't have said it better myself.
Someday dreez28, you might know yourself as the world having become flesh and dwelling amongst us.
@@askmeif Word
Exactly the problem with imprecise language. Anyone gets to create their own "correct" word salad
Please do a part 2, if you think it'd be productive and useful! I'm 26, and I've been watching Alex O'Connor's content since I was 16 and still in high school. You two clearly have synergy and rapport, despite your differing beliefs on religion. I think it'd be a great service for those of us who, in the words of your latest book, "wrestle with God." I never would've considered Catholicism or religious apologetics had it not been for the content that you both produce. Thank you both very much.
Really?
Alex O'Conner......that's ur guy? 😐
Now you know that you can be much more smart than the GREAT, the GOAT Jordan. Because YOU can feel and believe in Jesus and in your resurrection, and Jordan didn't believe yet. You are more smart than Jordan Peterson, what a beautiful life.
He seems to be very intelligent, polite, open to discussion.... if you're looking for a young person to admire, I can't think of anyone better than Alex.
@@edurodriguesigues if you can recognise that Jordan is really smart, why not stop to question WHY a smart man like him doesn't believe in the historicity of Jesus, or in the idea of resurrection?
I think Alex was patient in trying to get Jordan to talk about historical plausibility behind the exodus, and I think Jordan needed to realize he was asking that, not asking about how exodus story survived and can be related today. I think alex was very patient to try to get Jordan to talk about the history specifically.
The issue is anything occurring thousands of years ago can rarely be considered "true", at least not in the scientific concept of truth. JP obviously cannot say, "yes it definitely happened". It's kinda stupid to even ask the question and it's obviously a gotcha question.
@@johnsmithers8913 No, it is him trying to understand if Jordan Peterson sees the story as something that is helpful and meaningful or if he really believes that the exodus as described in the bible is a true historic event.
or maybe Peterson was patient with Alex’s dumbass pigeon-holing irrelevant question - and was politely trying to love the conversation back to the relevant points he IS making rather than feed into Alex’s distraction
@@Peterdeskater100But Peterson doesnt discuss things for that purpose - so isnt Alex being a bit of a jerk?
I'm getting increasingly frustrated listening to JP as time goes on. I imagine sitting in a room with him when we hear a loud crash in the kitchen. I'd ask him if a dish fell and broke. I imagine he'd go on at length about how it's a pointless question as he tries to deeply analyze my motivation for asking such a thing, eventually terminating in me having no real answer. Dammit, it's MY question. It's not pointless to me or I wouldn't be asking. Why doesn't he understand the question the way I'm asking it?
"Did X really happen?" is akin to "did a glass break on the floor just now?" He doesn't seem to process the question properly, a question a kid would understand immediately, which is frustrating. Alex isn't being a jerk. Quite the opposite: He's very patiently trying to illustrate this problem of JPs to him, to get him to answer what just about anyone else would immediately recognize as a very simple yes or no question. JP is just not getting it. It's the very thing Dawkins complains about too.
Geeze, JP, just tell me if a glass broke in the kitchen. A kid would instantly know what's really being asked there. Why doesn't JP? If instead you ask me what I mean by "glass" or "floor" or what I mean by "broke" and launch into a several minute long thing about anything other than what I'm asking instead, ugh... Next thing you know he'll be asking what I mean by "mean." It's frustrating.
Loved this....a good bridge between a skeptic and Dr Peterson's thinking and manner of speaking
Great discussion! Appreciate the distinction between memes and archetypes. Finally articulated what felt like it was missing. Also, the truth vs survival!
Why do I feel as if people who enjoy discussing whether there is truth in religion are wildly being taken over by those who are fanatically FOLLOWING their actual RELIGIONS!
What distinction? They were equivocated
Peterson has needed to be called to task on a few things. "Really happened" has definitely been one of those. Hehehe. I thought Fry might've done this when he was on, but I suspect he was being polite to his host. He would be another guest I would love to have back.
The layers and depth of assumed meaning that allows us to flow effortlessly through our daily lives is astounding. Which is why we need deep thinkers like Dr. Peterson and Mr. O’Connor to hit pause on assumptions and dive down to first principles. Would be too inefficient and exhausting to do all the time but worth examining still.
Diving down is the only way to be sure that what you are standing upon is unshakable. It must be done fervently, consistently, and openly. Otherwise you build upon shifting sand and could waste your life and the lives of those you lead from some future clarification that destroys all you strive for.
Mr. O'Connor is still a shallow thinker. He's a Left hemisphere powerhouse (which means analysis and then more analysis about details and then some more details!). That IS exhausting and at the end of the day futile. Kierkegaard had done the same but with the philosophical freedom (open mindedness) to arrive to his "leap of faith" conclusion. O'Connor just isn't comfortable with surrendering control. That's a psychopathology I'm quite familiar with.
I honestly knew this was Jordan’s position months ago, but he articulated it better than I could.
I appreciate his honesty and humility to say he doesn’t know but also challenge believers. I hope he finds a more conclusive someday soon.
Such an enjoyable watch. Thank you!
I so badly want J Peterson to listen to R.C. Sproul's "The Consequences of Ideas." Not for discussion, not for content but just for his own personal enjoyment. I really found Sproul's treatment of philosophy helpful for my own understanding of reality.
Alex and Petersen go very well together, Alex pushes back with proper vigour and doesn't let him get away with little oversteps, (as we all do) But it's just really great lines of thought well executed
I loved this episode so much more than I thought I would.
The world needs more conversations between these two.
Haven't seen much of his content but from this it would seem Alex is really well-spoken. He knows what to push and he knows how to listen.
Alex is the kind of interviewer who always brings out the best in the people that he interviews.
As an enjoyer of his content, I highly recommend you checking him out. He gives excellent views and perspectives on important issues, and he always probe the opposition to give precise answers without coming off as condescending or confrontational. On this topic, you should watch his old critique of JP, a very interesting watch!
I bet u think anyone with an accent is "well spoken."
@@whynot1548 "i BeT u" listen to yourself. Can't even take someone else getting a compliment.
There is much respect between these two and you can tell they are doing everything they can not to offend each other with their challenging questions.
Love this discussion
This is one of the most important questions to nail down with Dr. Peterson and Alex has done a fantastic job at it!
The reason a lot of Christians ask this question is because what they are trying to ask is, _"Is the Bible a verbatim account of past events?"_ Now, you might ask "Verbatim from whom?" You might say "verbatim from those who lived the events." You might say "verbatim from those to whom the events were recent history." But the "yes"es and "no"s to those questions are not what Christians are interested in.
They want to know _"Is it a verbatim account from God?"_ Is it "God's Word"?
This is also why people ask _"Do you believe in God?"_ or _"Does God exist?"_ Because it's a prerequisite assumption to the above questions. Now, you also might ask what people mean by "believe" or "exist." And what they are asking is "Do you believe that God is a person with whom you will be able to speak face to face some day, just as you and I are doing now?" Is He someone from whom there can be a verbatim account of His words? Because these are key tenets of Christian theology.
They want to know how closely you relate to them. Mostly because they love and admire you, and want for you to go to heaven. But also because they think these beliefs will enrich you in this life.
No. I would ask because I want to know what motivates his theology. If he's a believer, I am more likely to take his theological teachings seriously. Since he is not a believer, I take his theological teachings with a grain of salt.
Christians should just read Qur'an then
@@yesenia3816 I would want to know, because if he actually believes in the supernatural, I’d take his lectures about religious matters far less seriously, as I would with anyone who believes Zeus, fairies, Allah, etc..
I love conversations like this. Very fun.
It was a simple yes or no. Do you think this happened is a pretty simple question.
it's true.
It's always suprising how much disagreement simply stems from a difference in defining words. I would argue close to the majority of disagreements overall have to do simply with differing definitions of words.
This is one of the best conversations I've ever seen with peterson... This needs to happen more.
He actually gave a very clear answer it’s just he went into other things when finished. He fairly clearly said, “probably according to the historical evidence.”
Then why cant he just f*cking say that?
@@bkorodi1797 He literally said it, and he added important context. Wanting short answers to complex questions is shortsided.
Alex is the brightest person I’ve seen amongst all these communicators
The real GadSaadismyDaad?
In a parody version of this interview Alex would say “you’ve probably spent more time in Forrest Gump than anyone I’ve met in person”
This has nothing to do with current video. Your truth, your honesty, has caused me to love you. It's undeniable. Thank you for guiding me through so much. I love you as a comrad, as a father, and as a friend. Thank you for everything.
Hi Jordan
The thought process both of them are capable of, is amazing. I can see it in their eyes. They are way above my level.
You can reach their level if you put in the work
Same here.
@@HIMMBelljuvonot me lol. But I appreciate watching people like Alex. He has an amazing way of putting concepts across in a simple way for someone like me to understand!
@@DrenwickificationAnd that’s really dangerous. And treacherous. Read my friend, the most you can, then nobody (not me that’s a fact), will need you to explain you something for you to understand it. And you will need nobody in the same sense.
One of them is not that way above you, trust me. Peterson also had this “phase” and start to telling himself “shut the f up, that’s a lie” and he had to “burn” everything he believed it was true but knowing it wasn’t. 98% “of his thoughts”, he says. Not making this up.
great session
To Alex’s point, you have a guy like L.A. Marzulli (known as one of the Godfathers of his niche with ancient biblical history) who actually goes to ancient historical sites and/or megaliths where he SEEMS to collect actual evidence of some of these biblical stories being true/historical. For example, he personally owns multiple elongated human skulls that have been professionally analyzed. It lines up with the giants in the biblical stories. Then he also visits the people groups and learns about the ancient histories around ancient architecture that would SEEM to be far more advanced than an ancient civilization with almost no technology would put that much effort into building/ is even possible for them to do so. Some people groups, like the Aztecs, admit that they didn’t build a number of ancient structures, but they just came across them and chose to inhabit them. Now whereas this doesn’t automatically prove everything, the correlations are ASTONISHING! (In my opinion). So to back Alex’s point here, if Jordan Peterson looked more into this kind of evidence that Marzulli presents in his channel and conferences in particular (which are both here on UA-cam), he might be able to make up his mind on this question for once! Whatever his decision was at that point is his alone to make, but he would be making a much more informed decision on the topic
'Do you think it really happened?'
Yes.
Okay, but what do you mean by “yes”?
Thank you
@@lemasteraustin12 what kinda d*mb question is that?
in what manner?
Jesus died on the cross...? The bible is history regardless of what anyone thinks about it. I rather know the bible then anything because it's a endless story that we need to revisit it often.
This has been my one hang up with Dr Peterson for years, and I mostly ignore it bc so much of what he says is brilliant. I have to think either he deliberately doesn’t give a straight answer to this because he doesn’t believe it actually happened and that would eliminate part of his religious audience, or he does believe it actually happened and that would eliminate a portion of his non-religious audience. He probably feels that giving a straight answer to these questions is a lose-lose either way and would distract from his core messages. My gut feeling is that he doesn’t believe most of the biblical accounts are historically accurate and I highly doubt he believes in the supernatural aspects such as resurrection and virgin birth. The Pangburn talks with Sam Harris were basically 9 hours of Sam trying to get Jordan to answer these questions directly and he wouldn’t do it. Honestly I don’t think it really matters what his private views are but it is a bit frustrating.
He answers the question all the time, even just in this clip.
The problem seems to be that it doesn't fit people's binary resolution. It's not either this or that. It's probabilities. Also it depends on the which part of the text you're reffering to. He's just far beyond most people. Must be frustrating for him as well.
or maybe he wants to keep bringing a message or powerful Biblical meaning to a broad and wide audience of people who have abandoned seeing any value in it. And such shallow questions only exist to reduce his message and purpose. Why would he want to be pigeonholed as a Christian author or thinker when that is not his goal for his work? The expectation he should pin this down when it is irrelevant to the points hes making is stupid
@@user-kt7rs4wf6uyeah, you’re a genius. good lord
Agreed
Can't bring a powerful Biblical meaning to anything if he doesn't have a biblical belief.
This is the most helpful conversation in understanding Dr Peterson and as a matter of fact truth itself
I really like Jordan and watching him struggle with these important questions but I think this quote from one of Bonhoeffer’s books accurately depicts where Jordan is right now. At least what I can see from the outside.
“With an abstract idea, it is possible to enter into a relation of formal knowledge, to become enthusiastic about it, and perhaps even to put it into practice; but it can never be followed in personal obedience.
Christianity without the living Christ is inevitably christianity without discipleship, and Christianity without discipleship is always Christianity without Christ.
It remains an abstract idea, a myth which has a place for the fatherhood of God, but omits Christ as the living son.
And a Christianity of that kind is nothing more or less than the end of discipleship.
In such a religion there is trust in God, but no following of Christ.”
~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer
The Cost of Discipleship
For we walk by Faith and not by sight
Yeah These two needs literal miracle to believe that there is God
@@kumagretiredaxer2183 Because it will never happen but I guess that's not the point.
The reason this question matters for Christians is because Christians feel concern for the salvation of big celebrities. That’s “point blank” why the question matters to them.
And it’s not a bad desire, since it’s born out of desiring goodwill for the celebrity, but often I wish Christians could simply appreciate Jordan for this new branch of psychological theology that he has blessed us with. Peterson has single-handedly expanded our understanding of the Bible from angles we hadn’t noticed before.
As a Christian myself, Peterson’s work causes me to praise God even more; to me, it’s a visible synchronicity of God working across time, sort of like leaving His fingerprint on the Bible. And for non-believers it causes them to become very intrigued with the Bible.
And Peterson understands that he functions best when he stays in that lane, unpacking the psychological significance.
Whether Peterson will ever “believe”, Peterson has made it very clear that it is none of our business, because it detracts from what he’s meaning to tell us. Any orderly Christian should respect him by no longer annoying him with that question and simply pray for him privately.
Peterson is already aware of all the reasons to believe; he’s even surrounded by believers within his own immediate family. So, now just simply pray for him, Christians.
If Christians want the historical veracity of the Bible to be widely known, there are already many great Christian apologists and also Bible archaeologists. You can make them famous by watching and commenting on their content, and then the UA-cam algorithm will push their content more. But Peterson won’t be that person for you, at least that’s what it looks like to me.
most sane Peterson commenter
I would argue that the “did that really happen” question matters so much to people is because THESE STORIES ARE TOLD TO TINY LITTLE CHILDREN AS IF THEY WERE UNDENIABLE HISTORICAL FACT.
To pay the devil his due, the Christians concerned with his salvation are concerned because they already appreciate what he has brought to the table. It's why they pay attention to him at all.
People worship God for their own selfish reasons. Everybody wants to go to Heaven. Humans are selfish by nature. Self preservation is a natural trait in humans.
I love the "Forrest Gump" analogy. The clearest and most relevent example, to relate and describe, the diversity of overlaping genres in any literary work.
Christianity may be historic in some aspects, but it should focus more on symbolic, spiritual, and moral teachings. Otherwise, considering all content simply literal narrows down its original rich value. This is an argument that makes perfect sense.
I absolutely love that Dr. Peterson has chosen to "Wrestle with God". His study into the deep weeds of the text, has really helped me enjoy Christianity again. The world seems to be collapsing into dakness, and these types of talks, help me see that proverbial "Light at the end of the Tunnel"
Sam Harris said something like this to JBP: "I've been debating this with you for years now, and I *still* don't know what you actually believe..." And JBP still dodged on what he actually believes.
And I don't even mind that at all. Call it belief. *Don't* call it truth.
maybe you dont know what is meant by truth.
And yet JP has answered the question many times. Not understanding his answer doesn't give you ground to accuse him of not answering.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue I can tell you have some obscure esoteric elusive definition of truth.
@@thegrunbeld6876 how so?
@@MegaMerdeux Not directly he hasn't. And as we can see here, in his discussions with Harris, etc...he's almost delighting in not answering directly. He's being deliberately evasive. O'Connor does the best I've ever seen at not getting frustrated w JBP to the point of basically just giving up.
JBP is really coming across as a guy who's done way too much acid, experienced way too much different stuff, expanded his brain too much in ways that we mortals just can't understand, etc that it's hard to have a conversation with him. Substitute "acid" with "decades of internalized intellectual rabbit holing", and I think here's where he's ended up.
It's quite frustrating to try to follow him nowadays. He's not more brilliant. He doesn't have better insight. He just seemingly refuses to be direct on questions like these, insisting on stunning "so open minded your brain falls out" levels of open-mindedness. Except when he's being the exact opposite...incredibly direct and *closed*-minded. Climate change, Trudeau, and several other topics on which his mind is just made up and the venom is evidence of that. It's a really weird Jekyll and Hyde dichotomy. Too direct on some topics vs, whatever the polar opposite of direct is.
At 4:46. I agree with Terry Eagleton's assessment of Dawkins. At least Hitchens was taught early in life by Anglican priests. He knew something of the Old Testament, however limited as it was.
Thank you dr Peterson to present religion and faith in a less trivial way...I've always been very detached from those simple dicothomies "historically true" "false" that believers (and christians in this case) seems have.
Im sure JP had a blast talking to Alex. Hopefully the first of many talks 🙂
I certainly hope so. This is the first time I think I've ever seen Jordan so apprehensive and defensive. He clearly had 'shields up' during this. I didn't see that kind of respect for who he's being confronted by for anyone else that I can think of. Alex is a very clear, articulate and focused speaker. This was almost like watching a chess match.
O'Connor is still a very shallow thinker and I know his fatal flaw because it is exactly what I studied as a psychologist. It's the inability to surrender control so as to allow anything else besides his already shaped conclusions. It's an insurmountable confirmation bias which points to a very strong Left hemisphere in control. Just like Dawkins and Harris. They are both Left hemispheric dominant which makes them blind to the bigger picture (which Kierkegaard definitely nailed). Harris's case of Left hemispheric pathology is so profound that he stated that he'd preferred Biden over Trump even if the former had chopped children parts in his basement which is bonkers and got ridiculed for that absurd statement - as he should. It was ridiculous.
@@markd3250 Not sure I saw shields up, I genuinely feel like he had loads of fun. Just look at how many times he actually smilled and laughed during the conversation. He was being pushed, pushed to think deeper and explain more clearly, and that is hard, but I think he enjoys that. I felt zero combativeness between both, and Im pretty sure JP will speak to Alex many many times in the future. They will become good friends for sure.
@@silverfox8484 Combat? No. Competitiveness? Yes. It was like a tennis match between two very capable players. Jordan is always 'deep' thinking. What I saw was Alex trying to get him to prioritize meaning into one frame at a time instead of the whole movie. It was very entertaining to watch, and I hope they get together again.
The Atheist / religious debate is very repetitive.
I agree.
All debate subjects are repetitive past a certain point
LOVE THIS!
Would be amazing to see a podcast with Dr Peterson and George Farmer. Both are incredibly talented, please make it happen Jordan! Lots of love from 🇦🇺
The answer is no. Jordan does not believe the literal claims to the supernatural of the Bible. He only believes in their psychological significance, their usefulness to society and MAYBE he believes in God, but certainly not in the claim that Yahweh is literally that God and Jesus is literally his incarnation.
He might believe the kind of thing where God is the universe itself as such we are all "incarnations" or "avatars" of God seeing as we are made of the matter of the universe, Jesus included, he just happened to be a more enlightened incarnation of God more in tune with some specific aspect of an underlying greater will. Aspects that Jordan Peterson aligns with, greater good, certain morals and that type of jazz.
@@Cobbido Yes, I suspect Peterson is a Pantheist as well. Specifically, a Gnostic.
well, not so sure about the resurrection of Jesus, which is a supernatural event. He suspects that it is a historical event and that it literally was very possible to have happened, go and watch the whole video brother. Alex: "If there was a camera at the Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, would we see a man walk out? JP: I suspect yes" Start at Minute 25 in the interview.
The problem is that people are trying to understand spirituality through materialism because they don't actually know the difference. Supernatural does not mean magic and super powers. Those are Hollywood/materialist depictions of the supernatural.
It’s like Jordan doesn’t realise that Christian philosophers like William Lane Craig argue for the historicity of the events in the New Testament, and that the fact they occurred means we should believe in God and follow his commandments. He seems to find the idea people would actually believe these things happened quaint and eccentric.
Very interesting discussion .. thank you.
However, respectfully, Dr Peterson should really make an effort to come down to our level, the rank and file and communicate (give and receive understsnding) at that level.
Sometimes, simple questions require simple answers (no matter how complicated the subject may be) .. however onerous they may seem to them being asked to give a response.
I'm afraid that I'm starting to think that the problem isn't that he needs to "come down to our level" but that he is being deliberately cagey and refusing to be nailed down to any position, almost to the point of dishonesty. I'm afraid he wants to have his cake and eat it, too.
@@tammyschilling5362 This is my assessment as well as someone who has listened to him as well. I believe that he is a man who unwilling to truly take a hard stance on Christianity and truly come to Christ due to the implications (i.e., he can no longer idolize his intellect, he must give up control of his life, he may lose subscribers, etc.)
And then we have the issue where simplyfying the answer causes people to misunderstand. "Peterson declares God isnt real!" "Peterson admits he believes in Jesus!"
It solves nothing because then we have to get the clarification we removed in simplifying things.
I'm a Christian and some of the most brutal people are Christian, Peterson doesn't want to take any leap and I get it.
Maybe he just has realized that you aren’t “owed” the kind of simple “hard stance” explanation you seem to want from him, and that no one else is owed that either.
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
John 20:29
where can i get this suite
Way to go Mr. O'Connor. I like that you pushed Mr. Peterson to examine his beliefs.
What I would love to *finally* see is Peterson, along with other "New Atheist" rehashes like O'Connor, grapple with the centuries old established metaphysics of the church and deal with church intellectual greats like Aquinas. There is no "Christian metaphysics", there is sound metaphysics.
“Why do you think it matters to people”??? 🤦🏼♂️
Something either “actually happened in history” or it didn’t actually happen. There’s no middle ground. I’ve always been a fan of your work in Psychology, but this is just embarrassing for you JP. This is the type of postmodernists gibberish you so often rail against. I thought your conversation will Dillahunty made you look silly (God is real because some guy quit smoking) but this exchange in particular has really upped the ante. There’s no historical evidence outside of the Bible (which is the CLAIM) for the Jewish exodus. Props to Alex for trying to drag him back to clarity.
Ond of the tags for this video is "Jordan perterson" hahahah 😂😂❤️❤️
thank you 💯
if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins
Alex is dangerously Brilliant, i'm glad my generation has a mind like his.
He does seem to be quite an exception in being able to follow through on conversational prompts and queues. As well as following through on clarification.
Also fortunate to discover his talent very early on and refine his verbal skills.
Those chairs are very, very lovely.
When is Jordan going to interview with Ray Comfort?
Defining truth is important
Truth by Definition is not a fact. I can tell the truth and be incorrect at the same time. Truth is based on Understanding.
KJB is a book of good and evil, The Word of God etc, nowhere any time did someone say it was a fact.
Therefore, Truth shouldn't matter when it comes to the crunch... what's the fact of the matter..
Are there genres of truth? I believe truths are proved evident by fact.
Again, defining truth is important. If truth is a mountain we all have a different perspective and position.
The absolute truth is that truth is relative 😅 ☯️ a belief, a construct of mind and matter agreed upon by our infinite species of consciousness and stuff 😊
@@MFletch87 The only problem I have with that is it can devolve into relativism or the "my truth isn't your truth" kind of thing. We can see where that leads with some people's "truth" is 2 + 2 does not have to equal 4 because they claim there is no such thing as objective truth.
@@FarOutKiddthe rules of logic are unrelated to facts and yet are true
@@thetruthstrangerthanfictio954truth and fact can be separate things (and are) and still have zero to do with moral relativism.
Jesus himself taught truths with parables, which were not facts - they did not happen, they were fictional stories and not facts - but they were truths
My favorite part is when a man who can't even publicly state "I believe that Jesus is God" or "I believe in God" generally, then tells me as a Christian what is wrong with me asking a very straightforward question. If every single human conversation went as Jordan thinks it should in his mind, we'd all be standing there with our brains whirling like dial up modems trying to find the best way to ask if we're hungry or not until we all starve to death.
It doesn't NEED to be this complicated. Did the Jews historically leave Egypt? Yes. Did the bush Moses heard God's voice through actually appear on fire? Yes. How do I know? The Bible tells me this happened and I have no reason to believe that: 1. it's not historically possible (because it hasn't been proven to be impossible, at the least) and 2. it's not metaphysically possible, because if I believe that God came into the world as a man through a virgin birth, performed miracles, suffered, died, went to Hell, came back, and rose to Heaven, I sure as hell can accept a burning bush.
Like come on, man.
It needs to be complicated if you have any hopes of winning large numbers of new converts. JP’s psychological-evolutionary approach to Christianity is far more palatable to modern audiences than “It’s true because the Bible says so”.
@@thylabyrinth The only people who try to convince you of the truth of Christianity because "the Bible says so" alone are modern Protestant denominations. Catholicism is the fullness of the faith, intellectually rich, and the arguments for our faith abound. My point was I believe x simply because it's written, but in light of zero evidence to currently prove the contrary, having faith because the Bible says so - and I have ample reason to trust the Bible - is in fact good enough. What Jordan will bring is a bunch of converts to accept the abstract ideas of Christianity as "sort of" true, while rejecting them at the same time. Did the resurrection ACTUALLY happen, or "sort of" happen, for example? If we make everything into some abstract symbol that can be broken down into a "Jungian archetype" then we lose what God actually did for us behind some faux intellectual nonsense. God really and truly did die on the Cross and rise again for us. There needn't be more to it than that.
He is a public figure. He can't just say yes I believe, because he understands that everyone is out to get a soundbite from him with a gotcha question. Besides, his questioning of the word belief is a legitimate one, since belief requires proof. A statement like I have faith in God, or I know God exist is a better statement than I believe.
Jordan isnt being elusive he just has a clarity and precision most people cant grasp, so when people ask him a 'simple' question he looks at it from every possible angle and lens. Which is a credit to him and a burden, as it can be alienating and frustrating. So people should keep both sides of this in mind before dismissing him.
It's interesting that I actually agree with all that accept the last sentence. The job of a communicator is to clarify, not confuse. Alex is right here that JP must know what someone means when they ask the question. The bit about going back to that area, would one see a bunch of people in a pilgrimage to the promised land was perfect. The problem is it can be dismissed if the answer feels to dwell too much on the side of obfuscation. JBP is brilliant but when it comes to religion, that is where he lives unfortunately. Which sucks, because I like he was he treats them as stories and the memes and so on he pulls out of it
@@boxer12350 i completely agree with you bud, especially with the clarify not confuse. I think that is the burden part, he (Jordan) is tying himself up in knots overthinking things, and therefore making it incomprehensible and so pointless (if noone can get it except you what is the point of going on about it)
Big thanks to Alex for asking these hard questions in such a most clear way! And for really probbing where it needs to be probbed! Seriously!! Thank you! I've been waiting for someone to ask these questions!!
Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved!
Praise God! 🙏
Faith believes in the heart even when you dont have all the details! Then it confesses with the mouth regardless of the consequences! It keeps His ways and obeys His commandments! Faith is behaving as though God exists but it is also confessing with the mouth that Jesus is LORD and He is risen! Praise and glory to God! 🙏
I don't need to know it all. I can come to my Father like a child and trust Him with everything! His ways are higher than mine!
How much of history can we truly know if it happened or not? We are told that it happened. We are shown literature that says it has happened. In some cases we have pictures that show that it has happened. In some cases we have video that says that it has happened. In some cases we have audio recordings saying that it has happened. But how do we really know that it has happened?
We have archaeological evidence that corroborates historical accounts. But sure a lot of history, especially ancient history, is just scraps someone wrote down.
The difference is I don't base my life on whether or not the Battle of Actium really happened on 31B.C. I don't really care if there was a Richard III (even though I enjoy reading about his life) because he's been dead for 800 years. If it turned out to all be nonsense, oh well.
But people absolutely put the Bible and Jesus at the centre of their lives. Their lives revolve around it. The stakes are higher therefore it matters if it is real or not, and how good the supporting evidence is.
Then "they" have a much bigger problem than obfuscation of other people's reality, and that is they are bored out of their own wits.
the only difference is that most other history does not claim anything supernatural happening. we see history repeating itself all the time so we can assume that the things that are reported are plausible. but nobody has ever been dead for 3 days and was resurrected
@@ThePaull3d ... You put a lot of faith in that assumption. Do you know for a FACT that nobody has been dead for 3 days and was resurrected? Were you alive in those times and witnessed anything from that time period? How do you know that we as humans have not lost a lot of knowledge over the centuries and are now dumber today than they were back then? Hell the top engineers still cannot figure out how the pyramids were built yet they were because we see them as structures that were built by somebody. But who and how?
@@ThePaull3dShouldnt that make the other history even easier to prove though?
This made me an Alex O’Connor fan
As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns-the ones we don't know we don't know.
Sometimes it boggles my mind that people so intelligent and verbose can spend so much time talking in circles.
I'm at minute 13 and they've just arrived at the conclusion that truth can mean different things. I don't understand why Jordan can't just respond to questions about truth in the Bible like your typical everyday citizen would. He obviously knows what is meant by the question, but it's like he tries to be purposely obtuse.
Maybe he should just respond to these questions with a deep explanation, rather than going on a rant that confuses everyone.
He's making a very important and subtle distinction and then acting like it's the most obvious thing in the world. Dude. People are not going to pick up on that. That's why you're here to teach them.
Nice jacket, Sir!
I want that in a DRESS!!
@@MsElke11His name is Jordan Peterson. 🤦♂️
@@craighart9278
Nuh uh... it's Alex.
@@gismoogity haha
JBP has the most insane wardrobe
It can be hard to grasp why Jordan doesn't like questions like that, but I think he's right the way he responds.
Because the questions are too low in resolution.
the question is designed to pigeon-hole and diminish his discussion. He in not talking about its historicity. So its an irrelevant question. Hes not your pastor
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue The question is designed to learn whether or not JP thinks certain biblical events are literally true or not. That's all. Alex explained that. For some reason this type of question isn't allowed and never gets a simple, straight answer that's comprehensible to simpletons like me.
A question like "did Jesus literally come back to life?" shouldn't have to be phrased with any more careful precision than that for the question to be understood properly, and to get a quick, straight answer. That's a "yes" or "no" question when coming from Alex, Dawkins, or a zillion other atheists. Most Christians will also answer it immediately with a yes or no (or maybe an "I don't know"). This is what Alex was trying to explain to JP: JP appears to not understand what's really being asked when these kinds of questions come to him. I'm not the only one who finds it frustrating and off putting. Notice how Alex has to continuously rephrase his questions in more and more detail just to get JP to even understand what's being asked. These are questions any rando off the street would instantly recognize and be able to answer with one word. Not every question is deep or profound or has nuance requiring 15 minutes of analysis and disassembly.
"Was there a burglar in the hallway?" A simple yes or no will do, thanks. 🙄
If instead you ask what is meant by the question or what the "real question behind it all" really is, or you launch into a 15 minute lecture about what it means to be a burglar or what it means to be "in" a hallway, or otherwise require several minutes of clarification to make it clear what's even being asked there, there's a problem, and that problem isn't on the end of the person asking about the burglar.
@@toddwasson3355 but nothing in Peterson’s mission or message is about history or historicity of the Bible.
So the questions is really designed to be hostile, irrelevant and douchey.
There are plenty of reasons to question motivation.
1. Peterson isnt a pastor or teaching history or making any claim of historicity
2. his message is ALWAYS about meaning.
3. He freaking talks about meaning in Pinocchio. Is Alex gonna ask him if he thinks that’s real or not? of course not. Obviously the question is around Alex’s own obsession and mission to strawman the Bible and pigeonhole Christians than it has ANYTHING to do with any point Peterson HAS EVER MADE.
4. Petersons message is about bringing meaning back to the Bible in a low-thought unserious culture that has lost in moral underpinnings - the largest of those underpinnings: Biblical respect, knowledge and meaning.
5. He is not an evangelist and not trying to turn people into believers. He is trying to show the value and meaning of the Biblical text.
So what good is the question than to distract from all the things Peterson talks about!!!
He doesnt want to be an evangelist.
Or a pastor.
He doesnt want to be a Christian philosopher.
He wants to bring the value of the Bible to the whole culture, even non-Christians. As they too can grow up, mature, and learn a little from the Bible, even without belief in the historical events or even religious importance of it.
That Alex wants to be so reducing as to pigeonhole and diminish Petersons purpose by asking him the unrelated - is immaturity and maliciousness on Alexs part.
Dude went from mid to low end with this one.
And atheists create the largest problem.
THEY are the ones that turn any belief in the event actually occurring into “but-God-not-real-doh” or “you-cant-prove-dat-doh.” So why would Peterson want to do the Dillahunty dive into “where-dah-evidence-doh.”
Peterson doesnt address such things and never has. He is about MEANING.
It is the atheist who say: do you have any non-religious texts that confirm the resurrection.
But since they label any text that declares the resurrection happened as religious - they define away the possibility.
If anything labeled as “believing” can be disregarded and pigeonholed in such a way - why would Peterson discuss this when that is not his point, his message, his expertise, his goal????
Its just Alex’s goal to fallaciously disqualify him as a “believer.” So screw Alex.
Its a dumb question, its stupid concern, its irrelevant to Petersons discussions, and it was douchy to focus on.
Alex knows the cheap shot BS trap he was clumsily trying to lay. Which says a lot about the low-value fallacious audience Alex must cater to.
Alex gets an F
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue In other words, it's a question he won't answer. You said it yourself: Nobody is even allowed to ask the question unless they want to be an evangelist, a pastor, or a Christian philosopher. Look how defensive, hostile, and insulting (a low-value fallacious audience? Really?) your response to that was. The question itself is dumb, a stupid concern, and irrelevant. Alex wasn't being hostile. You are. You're actually angered by the question. 🤷♂
Pretty simple stuff, as your faith in Jesus strengthens, it becomes more difficult to deny that Exodus happened. But Dr. Peterson answers this perfectly. From a logical perspective, he mentioned that some parts are verifiable and others, not as much. But what most people tend to do is lean more on one side and completely disregard the other side. But he's clearly paying full attention to both sides, taking the texts for what it is and not forcing his beliefs on the texts. Definitely watching the full episode.
Peterson has previously spoken about how 'afraid' he is of his own belief and what it would mean to admit to himself that he believed. It seems to me after this conversation, that got very close, that Peterson feels he does believe in a deep and feeling sense but is afraid to embrace that in a propositional sense because both he is not sure what the ramifications of that are and he is not sure what it would mean for him as an agent in his own life (as opposed to being fully given over as a servant of the Creator).
In a sense there is the spirit of pride and fear operating. That's not unsurprising from a Christian perspective as this is expected in someone who has had an intellectual but not spiritual conversion and has not yet been "reborn in the Spirit". That he hasn't experienced that is also unsurprising as Peterson doesn't seem to give credence to 'the Spirit' as anything beyond the mythological with the exception of his own religious experience that seems to be fading in his memory but that he refused as 'not for him' (which comes from a deep root of perhaps a feeling of inadequacy, but he needs to explore more where that refusal came from).
His response to that might be that we shouldn't understate the significance of the mythological. That's quite right - and it has been understated - but to ignore the 'physical'/'real' in the sense of the realness of the physical resurrection *is* ignoring the very part of the Spirit that has the capacity to interact with and breathe life into *our* Spirits. This ultimately is the experience that will 'open the eyes of the blind' and bring the clarity he seems to seek through intellectual wisdom.
Did I eat ice-cream yesterday? Yes, that happend. Did I die and resurrected today? No, that didn't happend but it could happended metaforically speaking. Those too facts are easy to diferenciate. Come on Dr Peterson!
…your shallow understanding reflects on you not Peterson
That analogy doesn't work in the slightly
That analogy doesn't work in the slightest
Trying to get a straight answer from him is like trying to “grab” water with one hand.
I think he answered. He doesn`t know what historically happened and it actually doesn`t matter, it doesn`t decrease the value of the message.
The irony is that his answers are probably in the top 0.1% of the most straight answers, but people can't see it because they don't have his high level of resolution.
perhaps you’re demanding he hand you water when thats not the offer to begin with
@@Jordy_NL No they are not. Why can't to the question "Do you believe resurrection happened?" respond "I don't know but i still think that the bible is the right way to seek patterns to live your life" and instead starts questioning the definition of truth. He just doesn't want admit to the public that he doesn't believe because a lot of his audience is religious
@@chilldude5456 That souds like a fine answer to me if that would be your answer.
But dr. Peterson has his own answer.
The point was if his answers were straight forward, which in my opinion they are. Wheter you agree or not is a different question.
Anyone know where I can find the Boger center for the performing arts?
Some of us ask because we want to know his motivation. If he's a believer, I am more likely to take his theological teachings seriously because I am a believer and therefore have an eternal (spiritual) worldview. Since he is not a believer, I take his theological teachings with a grain of salt.
"They existed as a Pattern."
💯
The question is not mere curiosity about what Peterson believes. It is a method of determining "are you one of us or one of them?"
right. Alex was maliciously trying to reduce Petersons purpose and message. Shameful
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue the dude cannot give a straight answer on whether or not God exists it is absurd
@@S.D.323 Its absurd you think that its part of his message. Its absurd you think he owes you that, at the expense of his message - which is and always has been clearly stated: seeing meaning in the text. Why is that so hard to see?
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue eh its fine if he doesnt give a straight answer but it takes three seconds to say if God really exists
@@S.D.323 It's because Peterson disagrees with a lot of people about WHAT God is and HOW it exists. Saying "God exists" doesn't add anything meaningful to the conversation. By forcing him into this, you're ignoring his actual message and what he really thinks.
I think I would venture to say only this, that JP in all his unwillingness to answer and his disdain for the questions, does actually, for real, truly (at some point to be historically) believes in these ancient scriptures more than most casual Christians do. Now he might not like the way I phrased that, but hey, that's your problem JP;) The fact that he rightfully discerned and answered 'probably' to Alex's question of Jesus walking out of the tomb is enough for me to know JP has the foundation properly set. The rest is between him and God - and he is on the right path, I have no doubt.
I have faith God will reveal to him something as miraculous as 'the burning bush' so that if nothing else, God might get a chuckle out of JP's expression of wonderment that indeed, for a fact, truly, for real God is absolutely capable of expressing Himself as a Fireball which does not consume its subject. All the best to you JP, the Lord is using you in a greater capacity than most who claim you do not understand or believe. When persecution comes from within the church, you know the Holy Spirit is upon your life, perplexing and sad as that statement may be, and you know well that these were Jesus' most vicious testers. The fruit you are bearing resembles no less than the Spirit of God and His character, and that is an actual, measurable truth that can be witnessed in this present time. The Pharisees will ignore this with a passion, because it proves the productive hand of God on any individual's life.
Its not survivabiity of one’s self that drives natural selection or evolution: it is the survial of one’s progeny. A distinction to contemplate.
And yet people in developed countries are having less and less children....
Sometimes knowledge isn’t power
Too much knowledge is insanity
Ok sheep 🐑
1 Corinthians chapters 1+2
@@DJeMoexplain more?
I think the problem with people hyper analyzing the historicity of the Bible is that they don’t extend that same vigor to other historical accounts. They just accept whatever historians say as virtually undeniably true. Because this text contains the super natural, everything must have been exaggerated for the sake of allegory if those event even happened at all, but someone could have easily lied however many hundreds of years ago about some historical event and we take that more or less on its word
Yep
Well yeah, a book that's alleged to be the "infallible word of God" that has drastic consequences for the state of your eternal soul is obviously much higher stakes and is going to be held to a significantly higher standard than some random historical document that doesn't make extraordinary and bombastic claims to truth and has no bearing on your life or afterlife. The level of scrutiny is directly proportional to the dramatic and lofty claims it makes, I mean, come on now.
Positive claims require positive evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For example, we know (as well as anyone can) that Julius Caesar was assassinated on the floor of the Roman Senate in March 44 B.C. But we only know this from Suetonius and Tacitus, both of whom were writing about 100 years later. It's really not much to go on.
That's actually worse than the NT gospels, which were written about 25 to 65 years after the alleged events. So what gives? Why do I believe Julius Caesar was stabbed to death on the floor of the Senate, but I don't believe in the Resurrection?
The answer is simple; the latter is impossible.
People do not rise from the grave. Tyrannical leaders get assassinated all the time. I'm perfectly happy to just accept a historical account of a murder, because it's not weird. If you want me to believe that reality itself was violated via supernatural means, I need something more to go on.
The burden of evidence scales with the magnitude of the claim. You tell me you have a pet dog? I'll just believe you. You tell me you have a pet anaconda? I'd probably ask for a pic. If you tell me you have a pet dragon like the ones on Game of Thrones, I'm going to dismiss you as a lunatic unless it lands on my front lawn. One is common, the second is rare but not completely implausible, the third is completely absurd. The bigger the claim, the bigger the hurdle.
Oh, you can give the meta physics all the scrutiny that you want, but the Bible is treated as contemptible by a lot of atheists, and even lied about such as Dawkins saying that Jesus didn’t actually exist. It has a lot of historical worth. For a lot smaller settlements in the region, it’s one of the only textual sources we have of their record.
@@jagpro91But if taken as allegory it would still also be considered the infallible Word of God. So the hang up still get ls you nowhere if its still addressing meaning and truth either way.
3:54
One of the greatest Dr. Petersonisms of all time.
I literally burst out laughing when I first watched him say that 😂
I had a laugh . But no, then I rewached it and I laught even louder.
JBP met a sharper mind than his own. It was very enjoyable and interesting and also revealing
The dude who believes that free will doesn't exist and everything is predetermined I doubt he's sharper than a brick.
@@MegaMerdeuxoh irony
As much of a JP fan as I am, this was very frustrating when he got tangled in his own intellect. You know pretty well what someone means lol
The stories are the truth. That's it. That's everything
And that’s what they are.. just stories.. not facts
@@Erik-op2hy some of the stories in the bible are based on fact and historians & archaelogist agree that they did happen. While others are fabrication. The bible represents a spectrum and real to not.
Well the problem with that argument is that if they are just stories then there is no substance behind them. If it is just “stories” and not facts, then why should I take them more seriously than any other fiction. Without God and the facts that are presented than all of these stories are just theories and principles that some portion of society thinks is attractive. However, TRUTH is then subjective.
Yes , 100% perfect truth. Every letter , every jot , every tittle
The Whole Bible Is One Big Allegorical Metaphor.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Those Who Take Any Of The Stories Within Quite Literally Will Be Driven To The Edge Of Insanity.
Point In Case Most If Not All Bible Thumpers
Especially Those Under The Cult Of Christianity.