Good video! When I started riding, in the late 70s, the "old timers" would tell you to never slip your foot off the kicker until the engine was running. If, as you said, the bike is tuned correctly, you will very rarely, if ever, get a kick back. If your bike wants to kick back, you probably have the ignition advance too far. The other thing I see people doing is twisting the throttle as they kick. That usually doesn't make a difference when the engine is warm, but doing so when it's cold with the choke on is a good way to flood it. Because on most carbs there is an accelerator pump that sprays a nice stream of fuel into the carb every time you twist the wick, whether you do it slow or fast. On my old 72' XLCH the sequence is as you said, with the addition of 1 throttle twist before the primer kicks. This gets a good charge of fuel in the cylinders for the kick with ignition on. If you find yourself twisting when you kick, hold the bar next to the throttle. Of course the normal disclaimers apply, some bikes want 3 primer kicks, some 4. The thing that I worry about more than a kickback is when the ratchet slips and as you bring your wait down the is no resistance at all. That has caused me more pain than any kick back ever. The way to avoid it is to make sure all your weight doesn't come off the kicker when you're winding up for a brisk kick. You don't want to be jumping on the kicker. I never had a bike with that new fangled electric leg until this year when I picked up a 2000 Heritage. I gotta say, it is kinda nice to just push a button and go. But even with that, there is a sequence that seems to work best. Jeez, didn't mean to write a book. Thanks New sub
Some seriously awesome info in here brotha thank you for sharing this! Lot of people could benefit from reading this 🙏🏼 Really glad you found the channel. How did you end up coming across it?
I live so far away from the community and having a new to me 71xlch without the original owner to teach me or any mentors around, has SUCKED. This video helps me out a lot.
Too old to have my ankle broken off "seen it" electric start is nice. Alot of compression on 80c evo. Go electric start, your ankle, leg and knee will love you
I had a 76 XLCH and the cold sequence was fuel on key off, 3 twists of the throttle and 1 kick then bring engine around to compression key on crack throttle slightly and kick it through. I did not have a choke and the mikuni did not have an enricher. Warm start was skipping the prime cycle and kick it over with the throttle cracked open.
I put my left knee on the seat is Stables the bike and then kick through with the right. Been using the same process you talked about sense 1967 when I bought my first pan and still today on my shovel . Good information ! Yes I'm old 76 this year
From a 40 year rider of only kickstart motorcycles. Good habit is whenever motor is shut off, turn off gas. First and foremost feel kicker and make sure kick ratchet is engaged and once it is keep some pressure on it, hard to describe but lift your body up without releasing pressure completely from pedal and then come down on it. This is much easier from the right side as your body weight will come straight down instead of at an angle. No matter what model if it is high compression you can stand on kicker slightly for a bit to let compression bleed off a little before coming down on it. Again, mainly make sure ratchet is engaged and stays engaged when lifting your weight to come down on it. Way more knees have been injured by kicker slipping out of engagement than by backfire, especially on XLs. But in the end the best way is the way that works for you.
Good advice young man for someone that's only been using a Harley Kickstarter two years. I've been doing it for 54 .years now. I'm almost 70, still riding my 1949 EL Panhead. My right leg is bigger than the left. The only thing different you might want to do at @6:02 if you try to start it and you flood it and it coughs, open the throttle all the way and kick it through... when it coughs and fires.... immediately close the throttle and she'll stay running. Then don't have to pull the plugs.
A good video, that made me wonder about the purposes of priming. To be honest, I never considered it to be to "loosen" up the engine so to speak. Instead, I always considered it to be aiding the compression of gas vapors when you do give it the fire up kick. Mind you, both bikes I kickstart regularly (my ironhead and my 72 Norton Combat with Amals, require flooding the cylinders with gas via ticklers (albeit two different ways- 1 flooding the carb via overflow, the other by squirting gas direct into intake). Also, on both for me, I've found that, esp with the ironhead, that you do not want to fully extend the knee on an all out follow through kick- instead you want to stop the kick, at about 5 oclock and hold it firmly there and release after the start. On a hot start- ie getting gas and taking right off- with those iron heads it heats up quick and basically dries out things out, and if you give it any gas you flood it, and the only solution is to give it 6,7.8 fast kicks in a row key on, and then it starts right up.
This is great info man! It’s nice to hear this type of feedback for other motors. Only so much I can show with just my one motorcycle so this might end up helping somebody with one of those. I feel like there’s a lot of schools of thought on holding the kick extension. I kick all the way through but I don’t hold it down there at the bottom for 3-4 seconds like I see some people do. As soon as I hear the bike start I slide my foot forward off the pedal and out of danger. Ya never know what could happen haha
I don't know if its as important for me to hold it briefly after a start, as it is to stop my forward motion of my foot/knee. When they talk about "sportster knee" they aren't talking kickback (although that happens) but hyperextending the knee. Not sure what is happening when this occurs- kicker slipping a tad on end? missed a compression stroke? Gremlins? Its not like it does it every time or once in a 100- but when it does, you learn. So briefly holding it there is part of that stopping action. Interestingly, the Norton manual states to hold clutch in and give it a few kicks with key off to loosen clutches before starting. I never do, but my wife does as she thinks it starts better for her that way.
Man, another great video for everyone that’s coming over to kick starters. You’re helping a lot of riders with your info. All my bikes are kick starts and there is nothing cooler or easier in my opinion and I run mags so no magic button option for me. Great channel. Subscribed…
@@greasesgarage Initial set-up can be a little tricky, but once it’s set they are righteous. Morris is tried and true, but they aren’t cheap. About $1,800-2,000 bucks these days. Have a great holiday and keep the rubber on the pavement…
Great video as always, since watching your vids it has made life easier in the HD world, thx. I am new too the the kick start and HD world (owned a 1985 Yamaha V-Max since 1988 she finally gave up) I purchased a basket case 1981 Shovelhead FXS Lowrider in a box, literally. Buddy took apart and had no idea how to put back together. 97 stroker 4 5/8 with S&S heads, rockers and intake with Mikuni NRS 45 carb. I have it all together and had it running with electric start but replaced the primary with a BDL 3" kick only.. Buddy had a BDL 3" open on it with a started ring but the basket did not seat properly on the output shaft was wobbling almost a 1/4" ( basket was for different HD model) I do not like the S&S HI-4N Motorcycle Ignition want to put points in it because it starts when it feels like it and points are easier all around. Any input would be appreciated as to parts and install if you are able too assist me.
That’s awesome, congrats on getting it together! As for the points I’ve got all the info you need right here Harley Evo Big Twin Points Ignition Conversion (Timing, Gapping and Complete Install) ua-cam.com/video/cUXwXI8wbM4/v-deo.html You’re dealing with a Shovelhead though so your timing mark isn’t going to match mine. You’ll have to look up what your advance mark is on the flywheel and use YOUR advance mark but the same procedure you see me doing. My condenser is blue streak my points are mid USA but you can get blue streak points as well I just don’t like the way they hook up quite as much but they run great too
On another channel, talking about how to kick start your Harley, they followed the same basic procedure. The primary difference is they said get the FRONT cylinder on the compression stroke and kick it like you mean it! The logic is; because the front cylinder is on compression, the rear cylinder is coming up on compression, so you give yourself a better chance for it to light off. This is a theory I've never tried on my '84. I do kick it from time to time, even though I have a button. Over the years, the process I developed is basically the same as yours - warm and cold. Now, once I get it back together again, I'm going to try this front cylinder theory...
You're talking to me for sure. My first Harley is a 76 fxe basket case that I've got to put together. Decently modified from the late 80s and early 90s. 93 stroker, S&S carb, same pipes you have, dual tanks from a FHL and +3 Wide Glide front forks. I've never kick-started anything bigger than a dirt bike. I'm only 160 lb so this should be fun.
The 93 striker should def be an interesting kicker! Let me know how it goes man, points will help with easy kickstarting and preventing kickback. You got this 💪🏼🤘🏼
Wish I watched this before getting rid of my 74 Ironhead. Man that thing would drive me nuts. Never usually a problem cold but warm was another story. Had a super B switched to a super E.
The super E is definitely the better choice of those two carbs for an ironhead. And it’s funny you mention that, I agree warm tends to cause more hiccups than cold starts but all the comments here who dislike this video keep accusing me of pre-warming the bike before filming 😂
Just subscribed. I like your bike. I'm curious what all you had to do to make the 4 speed bolt up in the frame. I got a 97 Heritage Softail that I want to put my Baker 6 into 4 transmission in. I heard you can get an adapter plate for it... does it involve any welding or fabrication. Thanks!
Thanks man! Great question. The good news for you is that your application is easier. You can indeed get an adapter plate for that transmission. All you need to do is determine what the hole pattern is on that baker. What I mean by that is that I would assume a 6 into 4 would have traditional 4 speed mounting holes. But I can’t say for sure. If it does though, you’d want a 4 into 5 adapter plate because your evo has a five speed plate mount and your baker is likely a 4
@@greasesgarage you are right... on the outside, the Baker 6 into 4 is identical to the 4 speed and has the same bolt holes. Do you know if the adapter plate is simply a bolt in or is some welding or further fabrication required? Would you happen to have a link to the type of adapter plate you are talking about? Thanks man
Great content and presentation as usual - I've hit an issue on my Evo kicker with the plugs arcing from the vintage terminals to the motor and making it run rough, I'm hoping a plug swap to non-resistor copper-core will solve the problem?
Update - swapped out the NGK Iridium BPR5EIX (with resistor) to Champion N12YC (non-resistor) and voila no more arcing. Kicks over easier too. Hope this helps someone else in the same predicament. Keep 'em coming Grease! 👍 @@greasesgarage
The spring adjusts how quickly it returns to 12 o clock after you let off the kicker but you can adjust the tension of the kicker arm onto the kicker shaft as I’ve noticed mine loosens up every few weeks and needs to be re torqued, even with a beefy nylock nut on it
For the best chance of not getting kicked back yes. Or at the very least, if you’re going to advance through that opposite stroke with the key ON, kick hard like you’re going to start the bike. It’s most likely to kick if you’re just gently cycling through it
I do not, I find that the prime kicks suck a serious amount of fuel into the carb just through the compression so I don’t think it’s necessary on my bike i always end up flooding it
I never felt the need to hang out down there. If you kick all the way through and just move your foot off the pedal you’re off it and away from it. You can watch the process happen five times in a row, but to each their own. Just don’t kick halfway. Every kickback video you’ll see on UA-cam involves someone leaving their foot on the pedal for way too long
I had a 1971 Shovelhead and a 1958 Panhead , both were kicker only. I always ran it to the bottom and held it down : I never had an issue with that, bro. You got a copy on that there ???! Oh yeah !!!!
I’ve followed your tutorial to a T and I still can’t get my shovel started. What would some other issues that’s causing it to not start? I changed the spark plugs and that worked but only for one start
Get Your Motorcycle Running Again ua-cam.com/video/7aJtCMwFMDk/v-deo.html This video here might be of help to you, goes over a few more things you can check to see what might be causing your non-starting issues. Let me know if you get it!
I had to discover this procedure on my own back in 1990. The electric starter on my '84 Softail was fine, but the relays and starter buttons were pure crap. Once I discovered the proper sequence and procedure, I had no problem getting her running. My '84 is sportin' a 3" open primary, points ignition, and is kicker only. I see that you opted not to use the "calf slapper" kicker arm.😎
That’s awesome! I love to see other people running the points and loving them. It really makes it so simple and easy to get it kicking effortlessly. Funny you mention the relays I’ve always had bad luck with those too, Harley AND Metric
@@greasesgarage I recently watched a garage video about diagnosing a won't start problem on a very late model Harley "Road Couch." The techician mentioned that it took hours of diagnostics using very expensive computer gear to discover a series of bad sensors. It took more hours of laber to replace the sensors and then retune the onboard computers to read the new sensors. I can diagnose my points ignition and carburetor systems in minutes and and repair all but the most extreme problems on a roadside with parts and tools in my road kit. And I didn't have to mortgage my house to buy my scooter or pay someone to tow it in and have someone else wrench my ride. Wrench. Ride. Repeat. As an aside, a video about a roadside flat fix would be cool. I have heard that a tool exists that uses pellet gun CO2 cartridges to air up a roadside flat tire, but I haven't seen one.
Pushing it through a couple kicks not only pulls some gas into the combustion chamber, helping it start a little easier 'cold', but the pistons simply smears a little oil up & down the cylinder walls making it easier to kick.
I knew it had to be something like that, because it really does become so much easier to kick through after those initial primer kicks. Thanks for the info!
these new carbs are a little different to start than a linkert&bendx thats what i have worked with good job all but the release of kicker way to quick its a bad habbit i find the 3 rd temp when engine isn t cold or hot theres a in betwen temp for me that takes 3 kicks ing. off throttle closed than ing. on throttle cracked alittle been doing this 50 yrs HAPPY TRAILS
I used to have a '76 Super Glide that I could kick over easily as long as my sequence was right. I now have a '95 Bad Boy that I put a kicker on just for nostalgia sake, it is extremely difficult to kick. I have been told that it's because it has a 5 speed instead of the 4 so it has to be kicked much harder. Do you think that is what it is or is it the electronic ignition?
VERY likely that it’s the electronic ignition. Not all of them work well with a kicker. I know this from experience because before I started the channel I had a five speed in this bike with a kicker kit and the OEM electronic ignition. It never worked well and I almost took it off but when I put the points in it worked beautifully. Then I swapped to the four speed which also worked like you see it working here.
I have a 1984 FXST that was, basically, an old Big-Twin FXWG but with a different oil bag, a different swing-arm and an EVO motor. In other words, the drivetrain, behind the motor, is the same as the old Shovel-Head Big Twins. I bought it used in 1988 and learned real quick how to kick it, 'cuz the starter solenoid was messed up. The first mods I did to it were: 'M' style Cycle Shack exhaust pipes, S&S cam, S&S Super E carb, and a Dyna-2000(?) single fire ignition kit. The first thing that I noticed, was that it was SO much easier to kick over... Over the years, I have replaced: the Dyna ignition system with a Crane HI-4, that has a DIP switch to select electric or kick-starting; the OEM 4spd for a Baker 6into4, Paughco Shotgun drag pipes (I HAD 2.25" drag pipes on it, but had to replace them when I installed the Baker, to clear the kicker lever, and a Woods W6 cam. I have an 83in 'big bore' kit, with 10:1 pistons, and high-flow S&S EVO heads that I'm going to be installing soon. The point being: EVERY one of those changes can have an affect on the procedure to start her! In her current trim - sans big bore kit: IF I can get her to start by the 2nd FOR REAL kick, we're good to go; otherwise, I just mash the button (I also swapped the OEM Hitachi starter motor with an ALL-Balls starter motor)! Once she's warm, she'll light on the first kick!
Some of the tips are good but every bike is different. You can have two of the exact same engines with kickstarts and the they’ll both have different starting methods. Basically no two engines are the same
I don’t understand why everyone kick starts the engine while standing on the right side. Wouldn’t it be much easier while straddling the motorcycle? It actually looks awkward. Had many dirt bikes and we always started them while sitting on the bike…… stand up, start it, sit down and go. Not criticizing, just seems weird to me.
I don't know about installing a kicker on a sporty, but to convert an XLCH to electric start your looking at a couple grand for new parts. The starter, starter adapter, oil tank, battery box, and battery, sprocket cover, clutch basket, rear exhaut pipe, primary cover if yours doesn't have the boss drilled for the starter support bearing, and of course starter relay and start and kill switches. I'm sure I left something out. Cheaper and less hassle to find a wrecked XLH that they're still good on and either fix it, or part it out for what you need.
I can't help but notice it's running a points and condenser. Evo uses electronic ignition . Why would you go backwards in tech? I have upgraded both my pan and shovel to electronic years ago. Both are kick only and easy to start.
Learn your bike........ Every bike is different. Air temperature, altitude, humidity, etc all play a role. What works one day may not work another day. It"s all about the feel. If you know your bike you can feel it.
Unless you like changing kicker covers or at least a lot of kicker cover bushings , straddle the bike so all your body weight is on your left leg .Otherwise it's on the kick pedal and the bushings wear out quickly and you start seeing oil leaking out of the kicker shaft . Just my humble opinion from 51 years of kicking them bitches over .Thanks for your videos .
You know there is a reason why HD went to an electric start and put suspension on their bikes. I guess people forgot or weren't told by their fathers how much it sucked riding a ridig frame and kick-starting a bike. But hey, they'll figure it out in 10 or 20 years.
I don’t think you know how to time your shovels and pans. They’re incredibly easy to kick. But make a video of it and you’ll hear ironhead owners saying “I don’t think you’ve ever owned an ironhead” It’s ALWAYS something 😂
I dunno...been riding over 50 years (from 1967) and had never seen a right side kick...let alone a left foot right side kick until UA-cam....everyone I know straddles their bike and kicks with the right foot....
Only a newbie lets his kicker fly back from the bottom of the kick. Usually someone who is skeered of that kicker.... ....RooDog.... PS: I've been doing this shit since 1967...
I only see one bike in all your videos. Is that the only one you have experience kicking? Come over and kick my '69 103 ci shovelhead with SU carb. It will shake your confidence real quick kiddo
It’s so funny to see these types of comments flood in. People bragging about having their timing set poorly or having hard to kick bikes. Weird flex but ok 👍🏼
Shameless plug; in this video you can see what happens when the manual advance is advanced too much - kick back. ua-cam.com/video/LfcGzAv2Wdg/v-deo.html Great vid! A couple of critiques. Because sometimes it seems the transfer of knowledge is lacking, or gets watered down. And then the next thing you know people are doing things without knowing why. 1. Kicking with the choke closed is drawing a fuel-air mixture into the cylinders. For a cold start this is crucial. So it's not about "loosening things up." The intention is to "prime" the cylinders. Where did this come from? Probably long before this, but in the 1930s Harley Davidson Rider's Handbook for 74" and 80" bikes it states: "Kick down the starter once or twice to prime the cylinders." In your video you use the word 'prime' but do not fully explain it. Comments here indicate some folks already get it. Probably because they have been kicking their machines for a while. So this is more for the newbies. Primer kicks with the fuel on draws fuel-air into the cylinders. Test it. Leave the fuel valve closed and 'prime' your machine. Then try to start it. Most of the time, it will not start on the first kick. It might if you have fuel in the carburetor - you'd be lucky. If you're like me and drain your carburetor at the end of the riding day, when done like this, it will never start on the first kick. As you point out, open the fuel valve first. Almost useless knowledge: some model years of the VL have primer ports on top of the cylinders. To use them the rider would draw some fuel into a syringe, open the priming port and shoot the fuel into each of the cylinders. Close the port and start the machine. The problem with these is they were notorious for coming loose and falling off the bike, leaving a hole in the top of the cylinder. Bad things happened. So Harley stopped putting priming ports on cylinder heads. 2. I drain the carburetor at the end of the riding day by closing the fuel valve and letting the machine burn the gas in the carburetor. It doesn't drain all of the fuel but enough so that I'm confident it won't leak out. The old carbs just leak, ooze more like it. 3. If you accidentally flood the cylinders, like forget to the turn on the ignition. You're kicking and kicking and nothing is happening. You look down. The key is in the off position - I've never ever done this! Crap! What do I do? DO NOT PANIC! With the fuel valve open and key off you've flooded the carburetor. Terminology break, because I know a guy who was telling people the opposite of what advanced and retarded spark meant, not you Grease, this is for newbies - choke closed means the choke butterfly valve is blocking the carburetor throat. Choke open/off means the choke butterfly valve is not blocking the carburetor throat. Choke close and the suction from the cylinders caused by kicking the engine over draws more fuel than air into the cylinder - because the butterfly valve blocks the throat and partially (not airtight) blocks the flow of air. So for a flooded carb - 1. Turn on the ignition, open the choke or turn off the enrichener. 2. Roll the throttle all the way open and hold it open (to draw the maximum amount of air possible). 3. Kick with a purpose! 95% of the time it will start right up. Beware of high revs on a cold engine, immediately return the throttle to closed and adjust choke for proper warmup. This also works on a warm engine with a flooded carburetor.
What a fantastic comment. Thank you for sharing this wisdom with me and with the community as a whole. I really enjoyed reading it. Specifically about the process for “deflooding” the bike. I had a friend tell me that process once about leaving the throttle wide open but as we were leaving a restaurant he didn’t get into the whole “why” behind it, just told me to get it running so we could leave haha. Really appreciate the insight, hope to see more of these comments on the channel 🙏🏼 God Bless
STEP #1...is Always have your Ignition Timing set Perfect. Everything else is easy. With the carburetor idle mixture set properly, and idle adjusted...prime the engine with 2 or 3 squirts of fuel using the accelerator pump by twisting the throttle. Then Before turning on the Ignition, kick the bike over 2 or 3 times (which draws the Fuel mixture into Both cylinders). The last kick pump the kicker pedal so it's up high (on Compression stroke) Turn on the Ignition...kick Firmly All the way through...the bike should fire right up. Withe Blue Streak points & condensor, with the Ignition Timing set perfect...point gap equal on Both point cam lobes...I start my Shovel by Hand (and it has 9.5 to 1 compression) Hope this helps You!
If you’d like to purchase a shirt, hoodie or hat to support the channel you can find it all here Greasesgarage.bigcartel.com
I appreciate the way you teach and do things for everybody and the great breakdowns, and excellent filming Well done sir
Thank you very much, I appreciate you checking out the channel! Please share it with someone who is learning and needs a hand 🙏🏼
@@greasesgarageand here I am! Thanks for the help!
@@Beyondthebark1🤘🏼🙏🏼🤘🏼
Good video!
When I started riding, in the late 70s, the "old timers" would tell you to never slip your foot off the kicker until the engine was running.
If, as you said, the bike is tuned correctly, you will very rarely, if ever, get a kick back. If your bike wants to kick back, you probably have the ignition advance too far.
The other thing I see people doing is twisting the throttle as they kick. That usually doesn't make a difference when the engine is warm, but doing so when it's cold with the choke on is a good way to flood it. Because on most carbs there is an accelerator pump that sprays a nice stream of fuel into the carb every time you twist the wick, whether you do it slow or fast.
On my old 72' XLCH the sequence is as you said, with the addition of 1 throttle twist before the primer kicks. This gets a good charge of fuel in the cylinders for the kick with ignition on. If you find yourself twisting when you kick, hold the bar next to the throttle.
Of course the normal disclaimers apply, some bikes want 3 primer kicks, some 4.
The thing that I worry about more than a kickback is when the ratchet slips and as you bring your wait down the is no resistance at all. That has caused me more pain than any kick back ever. The way to avoid it is to make sure all your weight doesn't come off the kicker when you're winding up for a brisk kick. You don't want to be jumping on the kicker.
I never had a bike with that new fangled electric leg until this year when I picked up a 2000 Heritage.
I gotta say, it is kinda nice to just push a button and go. But even with that, there is a sequence that seems to work best.
Jeez, didn't mean to write a book.
Thanks
New sub
Some seriously awesome info in here brotha thank you for sharing this! Lot of people could benefit from reading this 🙏🏼
Really glad you found the channel. How did you end up coming across it?
@@greasesgarage
I watch some other bike channels, so the algorithm must have came up cherries.
Ride safe.
Yeah sportster knee sucks!
@@Johnny-df4di agreed
Got an 06 Softail fuel injected. Thing starts basically without a sequence. If the ignigion is on and you push the button, it's starting.
Best instructional video ever. Many, many thanks, bro.
Happy to help
I live so far away from the community and having a new to me 71xlch without the original owner to teach me or any mentors around, has SUCKED. This video helps me out a lot.
@@theferalhousewife I know that struggle and I can empathize with you man, I’m glad to hear this video is helping to bridge the gap
Too old to have my ankle broken off "seen it" electric start is nice. Alot of compression on 80c evo. Go electric start, your ankle, leg and knee will love you
I had a 76 XLCH and the cold sequence was fuel on key off, 3 twists of the throttle and 1 kick then bring engine around to compression key on crack throttle slightly and kick it through. I did not have a choke and the mikuni did not have an enricher. Warm start was skipping the prime cycle and kick it over with the throttle cracked open.
Very nice, sounds like you had it dialed in. Interesting about no choke or enricher on it
I put my left knee on the seat is Stables the bike and then kick through with the right. Been using the same process you talked about sense 1967 when I bought my first pan and still today on my shovel . Good information ! Yes I'm old 76 this year
That’s awesome to hear! Good on you for still kicking the shovel to this day, very impressive
From a 40 year rider of only kickstart motorcycles. Good habit is whenever motor is shut off, turn off gas. First and foremost feel kicker and make sure kick ratchet is engaged and once it is keep some pressure on it, hard to describe but lift your body up without releasing pressure completely from pedal and then come down on it. This is much easier from the right side as your body weight will come straight down instead of at an angle. No matter what model if it is high compression you can stand on kicker slightly for a bit to let compression bleed off a little before coming down on it. Again, mainly make sure ratchet is engaged and stays engaged when lifting your weight to come down on it. Way more knees have been injured by kicker slipping out of engagement than by backfire, especially on XLs. But in the end the best way is the way that works for you.
Excellent info! Thank you 🙏🏼
U R a smart Kid. Love your videos. Keep 'em coming
Thank you for the kind words and for checking out the channel 🙏🏼
Great presentation
Thank you 🙏🏼
Good advice young man for someone that's only been using a Harley Kickstarter two years. I've been doing it for 54 .years now. I'm almost 70, still riding my 1949 EL Panhead. My right leg is bigger than the left. The only thing different you might want to do at @6:02 if you try to start it and you flood it and it coughs, open the throttle all the way and kick it through... when it coughs and fires.... immediately close the throttle and she'll stay running. Then don't have to pull the plugs.
Love it, thank you for sharing this! Always something to be learned from those who have been doing it longer than myself.
@@greasesgarage I meant to say do that when it's hot, hopefully you never have to.
Man thank you, 75 shovel starred 1st kick. My first HD at 56.
That’s awesome! Glad this video helped
A good video, that made me wonder about the purposes of priming. To be honest, I never considered it to be to "loosen" up the engine so to speak. Instead, I always considered it to be aiding the compression of gas vapors when you do give it the fire up kick. Mind you, both bikes I kickstart regularly (my ironhead and my 72 Norton Combat with Amals, require flooding the cylinders with gas via ticklers (albeit two different ways- 1 flooding the carb via overflow, the other by squirting gas direct into intake). Also, on both for me, I've found that, esp with the ironhead, that you do not want to fully extend the knee on an all out follow through kick- instead you want to stop the kick, at about 5 oclock and hold it firmly there and release after the start. On a hot start- ie getting gas and taking right off- with those iron heads it heats up quick and basically dries out things out, and if you give it any gas you flood it, and the only solution is to give it 6,7.8 fast kicks in a row key on, and then it starts right up.
This is great info man! It’s nice to hear this type of feedback for other motors. Only so much I can show with just my one motorcycle so this might end up helping somebody with one of those.
I feel like there’s a lot of schools of thought on holding the kick extension. I kick all the way through but I don’t hold it down there at the bottom for 3-4 seconds like I see some people do. As soon as I hear the bike start I slide my foot forward off the pedal and out of danger. Ya never know what could happen haha
I don't know if its as important for me to hold it briefly after a start, as it is to stop my forward motion of my foot/knee. When they talk about "sportster knee" they aren't talking kickback (although that happens) but hyperextending the knee. Not sure what is happening when this occurs- kicker slipping a tad on end? missed a compression stroke? Gremlins? Its not like it does it every time or once in a 100- but when it does, you learn. So briefly holding it there is part of that stopping action. Interestingly, the Norton manual states to hold clutch in and give it a few kicks with key off to loosen clutches before starting. I never do, but my wife does as she thinks it starts better for her that way.
Now do one on starting a kick start Magneto bike (Panhead to be specific!)... Great info thanks.
If I could get my hands on a magneto I would LOVE to shoot that video
Easy. Ditch that mag. Go electronic. My 61 pan is kick only with electronic ignition.
Man, another great video for everyone that’s coming over to kick starters. You’re helping a lot of riders with your info. All my bikes are kick starts and there is nothing cooler or easier in my opinion and I run mags so no magic button option for me. Great channel. Subscribed…
Thank you for the kind words man! I would LOVE to get a mag on this bad boy, would make for a great video too
@@greasesgarage
Initial set-up can be a little tricky, but once it’s set they are righteous. Morris is tried and true, but they aren’t cheap. About $1,800-2,000 bucks these days. Have a great holiday and keep the rubber on the pavement…
@murphtahoe1 you too brotha merry Christmas!
Timing is everything from the ignition to the coil and the motor
Do you have any recommendations for a 2004 88 twin cam EFI ? I fitted a kit to mine and wow that bloody thing is hard to kick, no success yet !
I have a shovelhead stroker and each one has its own system . It is easy and don't half a$$ the kick.
Great video as always, since watching your vids it has made life easier in the HD world, thx. I am new too the the kick start and HD world (owned a 1985 Yamaha V-Max since 1988 she finally gave up) I purchased a basket case 1981 Shovelhead FXS Lowrider in a box, literally. Buddy took apart and had no idea how to put back together. 97 stroker 4 5/8 with S&S heads, rockers and intake with Mikuni NRS 45 carb. I have it all together and had it running with electric start but replaced the primary with a BDL 3" kick only.. Buddy had a BDL 3" open on it with a started ring but the basket did not seat properly on the output shaft was wobbling almost a 1/4" ( basket was for different HD model) I do not like the S&S HI-4N Motorcycle Ignition want to put points in it because it starts when it feels like it and points are easier all around. Any input would be appreciated as to parts and install if you are able too assist me.
That’s awesome, congrats on getting it together! As for the points I’ve got all the info you need right here
Harley Evo Big Twin Points Ignition Conversion (Timing, Gapping and Complete Install)
ua-cam.com/video/cUXwXI8wbM4/v-deo.html
You’re dealing with a Shovelhead though so your timing mark isn’t going to match mine. You’ll have to look up what your advance mark is on the flywheel and use YOUR advance mark but the same procedure you see me doing.
My condenser is blue streak my points are mid USA but you can get blue streak points as well I just don’t like the way they hook up quite as much but they run great too
On another channel, talking about how to kick start your Harley, they followed the same basic procedure. The primary difference is they said get the FRONT cylinder on the compression stroke and kick it like you mean it! The logic is; because the front cylinder is on compression, the rear cylinder is coming up on compression, so you give yourself a better chance for it to light off.
This is a theory I've never tried on my '84. I do kick it from time to time, even though I have a button. Over the years, the process I developed is basically the same as yours - warm and cold. Now, once I get it back together again, I'm going to try this front cylinder theory...
do you still your bike
You're talking to me for sure. My first Harley is a 76 fxe basket case that I've got to put together. Decently modified from the late 80s and early 90s. 93 stroker, S&S carb, same pipes you have, dual tanks from a FHL and +3 Wide Glide front forks.
I've never kick-started anything bigger than a dirt bike. I'm only 160 lb so this should be fun.
The 93 striker should def be an interesting kicker! Let me know how it goes man, points will help with easy kickstarting and preventing kickback. You got this 💪🏼🤘🏼
Wish I watched this before getting rid of my 74 Ironhead. Man that thing would drive me nuts. Never usually a problem cold but warm was another story. Had a super B switched to a super E.
The super E is definitely the better choice of those two carbs for an ironhead.
And it’s funny you mention that, I agree warm tends to cause more hiccups than cold starts but all the comments here who dislike this video keep accusing me of pre-warming the bike before filming 😂
Just subscribed. I like your bike. I'm curious what all you had to do to make the 4 speed bolt up in the frame. I got a 97 Heritage Softail that I want to put my Baker 6 into 4 transmission in. I heard you can get an adapter plate for it... does it involve any welding or fabrication. Thanks!
Thanks man! Great question. The good news for you is that your application is easier. You can indeed get an adapter plate for that transmission. All you need to do is determine what the hole pattern is on that baker.
What I mean by that is that I would assume a 6 into 4 would have traditional 4 speed mounting holes. But I can’t say for sure. If it does though, you’d want a 4 into 5 adapter plate because your evo has a five speed plate mount and your baker is likely a 4
@@greasesgarage you are right... on the outside, the Baker 6 into 4 is identical to the 4 speed and has the same bolt holes. Do you know if the adapter plate is simply a bolt in or is some welding or further fabrication required? Would you happen to have a link to the type of adapter plate you are talking about? Thanks man
Great content and presentation as usual - I've hit an issue on my Evo kicker with the plugs arcing from the vintage terminals to the motor and making it run rough, I'm hoping a plug swap to non-resistor copper-core will solve the problem?
It can’t hurt but I’ve not seen that happen with these vintage terminals
Update - swapped out the NGK Iridium BPR5EIX (with resistor) to Champion N12YC (non-resistor) and voila no more arcing. Kicks over easier too. Hope this helps someone else in the same predicament. Keep 'em coming Grease! 👍 @@greasesgarage
@@Lanesplitter THANK YOU for the update man this is great to know!
Yo brother love the channel thanks for some clues for my kickstart iron Head 1200 it slips also can I tighten the kick pedal spring from the outside
The spring adjusts how quickly it returns to 12 o clock after you let off the kicker but you can adjust the tension of the kicker arm onto the kicker shaft as I’ve noticed mine loosens up every few weeks and needs to be re torqued, even with a beefy nylock nut on it
Thank you much appreciated
TY for the video. How many CI is your motor?
80”
@@greasesgarage I have a 93" shovel and she's a bear to kick start.
Dumb question but how long after it starts do you turn off the choke?
@@jordanbyrd4422 I usually kick it, get on the bike, then take off and I turn the choke off as soon as I start moving
What an amazing video ,thanks for the info.
Happy to help Frank 🤘🏼
I just push the button on mine.
Me too, not a fan of kickback taking my ankle off, which does happen
So, if you kick it on the compression stroke and it doesn't start, do you turn your key off again while you're cycling through the strokes?
For the best chance of not getting kicked back yes. Or at the very least, if you’re going to advance through that opposite stroke with the key ON, kick hard like you’re going to start the bike. It’s most likely to kick if you’re just gently cycling through it
if you kick it all the way through, can you keep your foot on the kick start lever? or will it kick back?
You can but I never really understood why people do
Great video thanks for the info!!
Thanks for checking it out 🤘🏼
I see on a cold start you don’t twist the throttle a time or two after you do some prime kicks and find the compression stroke?
I do not, I find that the prime kicks suck a serious amount of fuel into the carb just through the compression so I don’t think it’s necessary on my bike i always end up flooding it
Hold that kicker pedal to the bottom bro. , all the way through.
I never felt the need to hang out down there. If you kick all the way through and just move your foot off the pedal you’re off it and away from it. You can watch the process happen five times in a row, but to each their own. Just don’t kick halfway.
Every kickback video you’ll see on UA-cam involves someone leaving their foot on the pedal for way too long
Wrong...
Big twin kicker pedals disengage at the bottom of the stroke, it can't kick back when it's disengaged...@@greasesgarage
I had a 1971 Shovelhead and a 1958 Panhead , both were kicker only. I always ran it to the bottom and held it down : I never had an issue with that, bro. You got a copy on that there ???! Oh yeah !!!!
@@HJG1964
Been kicking my shovelhead 33 years.Never had a kickback.
I’ve followed your tutorial to a T and I still can’t get my shovel started. What would some other issues that’s causing it to not start? I changed the spark plugs and that worked but only for one start
Get Your Motorcycle Running Again
ua-cam.com/video/7aJtCMwFMDk/v-deo.html
This video here might be of help to you, goes over a few more things you can check to see what might be causing your non-starting issues. Let me know if you get it!
I had to discover this procedure on my own back in 1990. The electric starter on my '84 Softail was fine, but the relays and starter buttons were pure crap. Once I discovered the proper sequence and procedure, I had no problem getting her running. My '84 is sportin' a 3" open primary, points ignition, and is kicker only.
I see that you opted not to use the "calf slapper" kicker arm.😎
That’s awesome! I love to see other people running the points and loving them. It really makes it so simple and easy to get it kicking effortlessly.
Funny you mention the relays I’ve always had bad luck with those too, Harley AND Metric
@@greasesgarage I recently watched a garage video about diagnosing a won't start problem on a very late model Harley "Road Couch." The techician mentioned that it took hours of diagnostics using very expensive computer gear to discover a series of bad sensors. It took more hours of laber to replace the sensors and then retune the onboard computers to read the new sensors.
I can diagnose my points ignition and carburetor systems in minutes and and repair all but the most extreme problems on a roadside with parts and tools in my road kit. And I didn't have to mortgage my house to buy my scooter or pay someone to tow it in and have someone else wrench my ride.
Wrench. Ride. Repeat.
As an aside, a video about a roadside flat fix would be cool. I have heard that a tool exists that uses pellet gun CO2 cartridges to air up a roadside flat tire, but I haven't seen one.
Im trying to figure out if i can dlete my starter but still have electric start. I love kickstarting my bike but i want a back up if im on a hill
If you delete the starter you wouldn’t still have electric start
Pushing it through a couple kicks not only pulls some gas into the combustion chamber, helping it start a little easier 'cold', but the pistons simply smears a little oil up & down the cylinder walls making it easier to kick.
I knew it had to be something like that, because it really does become so much easier to kick through after those initial primer kicks. Thanks for the info!
these new carbs are a little different to start than a linkert&bendx thats what i have worked with good job all but the release of kicker way to quick its a bad habbit i find the 3 rd temp when engine isn t cold or hot theres a in betwen temp for me that takes 3 kicks ing. off throttle closed than ing. on throttle cracked alittle been doing this 50 yrs HAPPY TRAILS
I used to have a '76 Super Glide that I could kick over easily as long as my sequence was right.
I now have a '95 Bad Boy that I put a kicker on just for nostalgia sake, it is extremely difficult to kick. I have been told that it's because it has a 5 speed instead of the 4 so it has to be kicked much harder.
Do you think that is what it is or is it the electronic ignition?
VERY likely that it’s the electronic ignition. Not all of them work well with a kicker.
I know this from experience because before I started the channel I had a five speed in this bike with a kicker kit and the OEM electronic ignition.
It never worked well and I almost took it off but when I put the points in it worked beautifully. Then I swapped to the four speed which also worked like you see it working here.
I have a 1984 FXST that was, basically, an old Big-Twin FXWG but with a different oil bag, a different swing-arm and an EVO motor. In other words, the drivetrain, behind the motor, is the same as the old Shovel-Head Big Twins. I bought it used in 1988 and learned real quick how to kick it, 'cuz the starter solenoid was messed up. The first mods I did to it were: 'M' style Cycle Shack exhaust pipes, S&S cam, S&S Super E carb, and a Dyna-2000(?) single fire ignition kit. The first thing that I noticed, was that it was SO much easier to kick over... Over the years, I have replaced: the Dyna ignition system with a Crane HI-4, that has a DIP switch to select electric or kick-starting; the OEM 4spd for a Baker 6into4, Paughco Shotgun drag pipes (I HAD 2.25" drag pipes on it, but had to replace them when I installed the Baker, to clear the kicker lever, and a Woods W6 cam. I have an 83in 'big bore' kit, with 10:1 pistons, and high-flow S&S EVO heads that I'm going to be installing soon. The point being: EVERY one of those changes can have an affect on the procedure to start her! In her current trim - sans big bore kit: IF I can get her to start by the 2nd FOR REAL kick, we're good to go; otherwise, I just mash the button (I also swapped the OEM Hitachi starter motor with an ALL-Balls starter motor)! Once she's warm, she'll light on the first kick!
@@daveshack298 that’s a killer bike man, what a great setup! Been thinking about a cam on this one
Same grease from the old podcast?
Yes sir!
watching for when I get a kicker on my Evo sportster
I thought you were kidding and then I googled kickers for evo sporties. Looks cool.
My dream is to just have my bike idle as clean as yours, my 74 Shovel is so finicky, still figuring it out
Shovel manifold is a little tricky to align, the evo design is a little simpler so it’s easy to cut out the air leaks. You will get it 👍🏼
Perfect vid!
Thanks Tom 🙏🏼
Help i cant get a compression stroke
I’m sure you’re getting one it just might not have much compression
Some of the tips are good but every bike is different. You can have two of the exact same engines with kickstarts and the they’ll both have different starting methods. Basically no two engines are the same
I understand that, but I’d rather make a video to give people a starting point than to make nothing and say good luck
Hey brother where are you located state wise? Any interest in collaborations?
I’m in NH, open to it yes. You can email me at greasesgarage@gmail.com
Nice.....👍
Must be a low compression engine. Saw a video where rider should engage the kick lever at the 9:00 position
Those two things have nothing to do with each other lol
I don’t understand why everyone kick starts the engine while standing on the right side. Wouldn’t it be much easier while straddling the motorcycle? It actually looks awkward. Had many dirt bikes and we always started them while sitting on the bike…… stand up, start it, sit down and go. Not criticizing, just seems weird to me.
Easier to get your weight behind it
OK, sure...@@greasesgarage
The new generation wannabes... you can tell the real enthusiasts from the beta boys...
Ok buddy. Go ride by yourself. Nobody wants your opinion here. The video has value, and if you don’t like it, nobody asked for your opinion.
@@HJG1964and yet here you are watching my videos 😂
Now I just need to save up and buy kicker kits for my sporties 😁
They’re so damn expensive for the sporty it’s tough
I don't know about installing a kicker on a sporty, but to convert an XLCH to electric start your looking at a couple grand for new parts. The starter, starter adapter, oil tank, battery box, and battery, sprocket cover, clutch basket, rear exhaut pipe, primary cover if yours doesn't have the boss drilled for the starter support bearing, and of course starter relay and start and kill switches.
I'm sure I left something out. Cheaper and less hassle to find a wrecked XLH that they're still good on and either fix it, or part it out for what you need.
I can't help but notice it's running a points and condenser. Evo uses electronic ignition . Why would you go backwards in tech? I have upgraded both my pan and shovel to electronic years ago. Both are kick only and easy to start.
Hahah I have a whole video answering exactly that question ua-cam.com/video/cUXwXI8wbM4/v-deo.html
Learn your bike........ Every bike is different. Air temperature, altitude, humidity, etc all play a role. What works one day may not work another day. It"s all about the feel. If you know your bike you can feel it.
Shouldn’t freeing the clutch be part of the process?
What?
Unless you like changing kicker covers or at least a lot of kicker cover bushings , straddle the bike so all your body weight is on your left leg .Otherwise it's on the kick pedal and the bushings wear out quickly and you start seeing oil leaking out of the kicker shaft . Just my humble opinion from 51 years of kicking them bitches over .Thanks for your videos .
Thanks for the tip! I appreciate it
at least no one will ever steal it
Some of the chopper shows here in texas do kick-start contests. Always good for some laughs when the guy hosting is talking shit to the contestants.
Haha love it
If you keep starting the bike many times in a row your going to burn up your starter or drain the battery:)
Skip to @1:30 where the actual intro is. Not sure what's the need for repeating "do not worry about kick starting" in different sentences
Kicking a putt over “ sidesaddle!” Yeah, it’s all I need to know!
It was in the thumbnail and you still clicked on the video lol
I prefer the kickstarter
You and me both 💪🏼
You know there is a reason why HD went to an electric start and put suspension on their bikes. I guess people forgot or weren't told by their fathers how much it sucked riding a ridig frame and kick-starting a bike. But hey, they'll figure it out in 10 or 20 years.
I dont think you've ever owned a shovel or pan
I don’t think you know how to time your shovels and pans. They’re incredibly easy to kick. But make a video of it and you’ll hear ironhead owners saying “I don’t think you’ve ever owned an ironhead”
It’s ALWAYS something 😂
My shovel ain't got a key lol
I'll go rhythm
my dad broke his leg trying to kickstart his harley. hasn’t rode it since
Sorry to hear this 🙏🏼
4:14 What if you’re a fat guy? 😊
Hahah gotta go high compression on the pistons
Not hard find top dead center first. If not suck start it.
Why are you looking for TDC
Did you know that harleys have air cooled engines
I dunno...been riding over 50 years (from 1967) and had never seen a right side kick...let alone a left foot right side kick until UA-cam....everyone I know straddles their bike and kicks with the right foot....
You know my right foot is on my right side right? I’m not kicking with my left foot 😂
My 65 would bite you. Stay cool.
Need to time it
Only a newbie lets his kicker fly back from the bottom of the kick. Usually someone who is skeered of that kicker....
....RooDog....
PS: I've been doing this shit since 1967...
I’ve never had any issues with it but I’ve gotten a lot of comments saying how it looks like I should 😂
Lol you didn't even go too having three quarts of oil on the bottom end and trying to kick that after the bike been sitting for three mouths LOL
What
Okay, cold and hot engine kickstart covered in 11 minutes. Now for the three hour video about attempting to kickstart a lukewarm engine ...
But you’re still watching 👀
big twins are easier than a sportster
I’ve always found them to be the same
im talking gear ratio@@greasesgarage
I only see one bike in all your videos. Is that the only one you have experience kicking? Come over and kick my '69 103 ci shovelhead with SU carb. It will shake your confidence real quick kiddo
It’s so funny to see these types of comments flood in. People bragging about having their timing set poorly or having hard to kick bikes. Weird flex but ok 👍🏼
😎🫵🏼👍🏼🫡👊🏼✌🏼🇳🇱
🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
I dont ride with any one dont go on rides with groups
Shameless plug; in this video you can see what happens when the manual advance is advanced too much - kick back. ua-cam.com/video/LfcGzAv2Wdg/v-deo.html Great vid! A couple of critiques. Because sometimes it seems the transfer of knowledge is lacking, or gets watered down. And then the next thing you know people are doing things without knowing why. 1. Kicking with the choke closed is drawing a fuel-air mixture into the cylinders. For a cold start this is crucial. So it's not about "loosening things up." The intention is to "prime" the cylinders. Where did this come from? Probably long before this, but in the 1930s Harley Davidson Rider's Handbook for 74" and 80" bikes it states: "Kick down the starter once or twice to prime the cylinders." In your video you use the word 'prime' but do not fully explain it. Comments here indicate some folks already get it. Probably because they have been kicking their machines for a while. So this is more for the newbies. Primer kicks with the fuel on draws fuel-air into the cylinders. Test it. Leave the fuel valve closed and 'prime' your machine. Then try to start it. Most of the time, it will not start on the first kick. It might if you have fuel in the carburetor - you'd be lucky. If you're like me and drain your carburetor at the end of the riding day, when done like this, it will never start on the first kick. As you point out, open the fuel valve first. Almost useless knowledge: some model years of the VL have primer ports on top of the cylinders. To use them the rider would draw some fuel into a syringe, open the priming port and shoot the fuel into each of the cylinders. Close the port and start the machine. The problem with these is they were notorious for coming loose and falling off the bike, leaving a hole in the top of the cylinder. Bad things happened. So Harley stopped putting priming ports on cylinder heads. 2. I drain the carburetor at the end of the riding day by closing the fuel valve and letting the machine burn the gas in the carburetor. It doesn't drain all of the fuel but enough so that I'm confident it won't leak out. The old carbs just leak, ooze more like it. 3. If you accidentally flood the cylinders, like forget to the turn on the ignition. You're kicking and kicking and nothing is happening. You look down. The key is in the off position - I've never ever done this! Crap! What do I do? DO NOT PANIC! With the fuel valve open and key off you've flooded the carburetor. Terminology break, because I know a guy who was telling people the opposite of what advanced and retarded spark meant, not you Grease, this is for newbies - choke closed means the choke butterfly valve is blocking the carburetor throat. Choke open/off means the choke butterfly valve is not blocking the carburetor throat. Choke close and the suction from the cylinders caused by kicking the engine over draws more fuel than air into the cylinder - because the butterfly valve blocks the throat and partially (not airtight) blocks the flow of air. So for a flooded carb - 1. Turn on the ignition, open the choke or turn off the enrichener. 2. Roll the throttle all the way open and hold it open (to draw the maximum amount of air possible). 3. Kick with a purpose! 95% of the time it will start right up. Beware of high revs on a cold engine, immediately return the throttle to closed and adjust choke for proper warmup. This also works on a warm engine with a flooded carburetor.
What a fantastic comment. Thank you for sharing this wisdom with me and with the community as a whole. I really enjoyed reading it. Specifically about the process for “deflooding” the bike. I had a friend tell me that process once about leaving the throttle wide open but as we were leaving a restaurant he didn’t get into the whole “why” behind it, just told me to get it running so we could leave haha.
Really appreciate the insight, hope to see more of these comments on the channel 🙏🏼 God Bless
Fuckin A
Just another side kicker...
I’m not coordinated enough for the standing in the middle kick lol
How to sissy kick a bike😂😂😂
If you gotta be told how to kick a harley uyou should buy a honda 😂😂😂
It’s amazing how some people think they just woke up one day knowing everything they know now
@@greasesgarage ive been around Harleys since i was 13 carry on 😂😂😂😂
12 year old you should’ve bought a Honda 🤷♂️
@@greasesgarage your dad should have wore a condom 😂😂😂😂
STEP #1...is Always have your Ignition Timing set Perfect. Everything else is easy. With the carburetor idle mixture set properly, and idle adjusted...prime the engine with 2 or 3 squirts of fuel using the accelerator pump by twisting the throttle. Then Before turning on the Ignition, kick the bike over 2 or 3 times (which draws the Fuel mixture into Both cylinders). The last kick pump the kicker pedal so it's up high (on Compression stroke) Turn on the Ignition...kick Firmly All the way through...the bike should fire right up. Withe Blue Streak points & condensor, with the Ignition Timing set perfect...point gap equal on Both point cam lobes...I start my Shovel by Hand (and it has 9.5 to 1 compression) Hope this helps You!