I mean... I like the sound of the 2002s. Those cymbals made a big role on the "Bonzo" sound (even though he'd used Giant Beats as well), the "Alex VH" sound... I mean, it's not thaaat bad for recording ou live. But I get the point
When you said “you will upgrade to better cymbals, and sooner than you think” so true I couldn’t bare the really cheap cymbals I had and saved up for a decent intermediate set and have added zildjian Ks over the years for a ride and crash and I’m way happier! -hoping to get some good hihats next bc I started with Pearl cx200 and they were barely playable…
Here are the different cymbal alloys, as you mentioned. The alloy is only half of the process. The rest is in the fabrication--where corners can be cut. Brass: 60% Copper, 40% Zinc. Same brass that is used to make bullet casings. Nickel-Silver: 80+% Copper, ~15% Nickel. You didn't mention this one; this alloy is not really used today, but it was the "budget" cymbal alloy before... B8 Bronze: 90+% Copper, up to 8% Tin. Paiste made this made this famous and, more or less, killed off Nickel-Silver. There were others messing with smaller % of Tin--5 or 6%. B10 to B15 Bronze: increasing amounts of Tin to find a budget/sound "sweet" spot. I think it's a marketing gimmick. B20 Bronze: 80/20 ideal mixture. Also called Bell Bronze, for obvious reasons. B25 Bronze: 75% Copper, 25% Tin. A "magical" (mythical) alloy, supposedly only found by chance in rare old K-Zildjians...or more hype. A few cymbal makers are playing with it today. Save your money and stick with B20. I also suggest 100% Handmade Turkish over whatever the "big 4" are doing; I find these to be surprisingly affordable as well--if you know where to look.
@@DimitarK You are welcome. I did manage to get the Nickel Silver mix wrong...it's 88/12 (bad memory). I got a 22" with my first drumset back in 1980. Very pingy. Still have it. My suggestion is to take a look at the smaller Turkish manufacturers doing B20 100% handmade. Literally all of these were founded by people who worked for Istanbul and went out on their own after Agop passed away. Both post-split Istanbuls make great cymbals, however, I find the pre-splits preferable. I own a handful. Some names/brands: Masterwork, Turkish (Mehmet's other brand, made in the same factory), Pergamon, Agean, Bosphorus (as spelled), Anatolian, etc. Take a look at soundsanatolian.com (no sound files) for a fuller listing or look up the individual websites (or YT) for sounds.
@@mikegarwood8680 these are great but they are hand hammered which can be a good thing but also means that the cymbals are not consistent. hand hammered cymbals from the big 4 are going to be at least double the price but they have better quality control. You will want to try them out before you buy because some of these are terribly hammered with imbalances that create non musical overtones or overtones suitable only for very specific genres. when you buy a midgrade pro cymbal like an A custom you get something that is going to sound in the same ball park every time. the Turkish cymbals are still a much better deal if you find the right one for your application. Although they share the same lineage I also want to make it clear that I would not include Istanbul agop or Mehmet in this category. they are more expensive than other turk cymbals and can be considered major manufacturers. they also sell machine hammered cymbals and have the same level of quality control or even better quality control than the big 4.
I have "S" Zildjian b12 mastersound hi-hats, they don't sound like b8 or b20 very much to me. Sometimes they are too harsh like some would say. Out of the big three, I haven't seen Sabian go into making b12 lately though.. On videos, I prefer the meinl b10 than Zildjian b12, until Zildjian just came out with a dark set, now it's a little competitive.
Great video! It's awesome to see you mixing in different videos and the overall growth and content of your channel since I've been a subscriber. You can thank Wyatt for that. You should consider shooting a "Day in the life of" video!
Thank you for you video! Really informative! But I have the AAX line ! Great sound overall but after 3 years of use( live, studio, rehearsal) the 18’’ is cracked twice! Which is really weird for a professional and expensive cymbals!! I didn’t throw of course, but it’s ugly, but still good! But how can such of high end cymbals can be fucked in just 3 years !! ( and I really keep care of my stuff like my baby’s)!
got a deal with Musicians Friends for the Meinl Classics customs, mixed of their metal series and regular ones and they are pretty good, thing is i got kicked out of my band like a month after i buy them🤣
At 52 I just started drumming and jumped into the deep end. Full K sweet set $2,000, full paiste2002 set $2300, full paiste signature set $2500 from the jump. I think I'm OK now.
Myself, I'd rather have two or three "high-end" cymbals. Rather, than a bunch of cheapies. Be patient. Save up, and buy the best. You won't regret it..😊
Paiste invents B8 in 1965 year with Paiste stambul. Other companies can't make cymbals with B8 and they use this for only cheap series. For marketing purposes, they said how is that for low and cymbals but that is not true. Look at paste giants/ big beats, 2002, alpha , RUDE.
I've got to bust an alloy myth here. The information in this video is mostly correct. Yes, brass cymbals are hot garbage. With bronze, it's about sheet bronze vs cast bronze. Higher tin content like B20 (bell bronze) are cast, lower tin content like B8 is sheet bronze. While it's true that usually B20 is more expensive and a higher tier of cymbal and B8 tends to be more affordable and less pro quality, that's not always the case. I'm a professional drum instructor. I play a very high end kit. It's a DW Collector's series 6 piece maple kit with a specialty satin oil finish (a cherry to black fade😉) and my cymbals are Paiste 2002's. They sound amazing and as I like to say, if they're good enough for John Bonham, they're good enough for anyone. Also, B8's they may be, but inexpensive they are not.
Paiste's Pst lines are the most comparable B8 lines in regard to other manufacturers. Sabian's B8 line used to be excellent, but somewhere along the way they lessened in quality. I'd argue that the Pst7 line is close to the 2002's. I have too many rides, but I regret letting go of my 24" 2002.
@@Lupine. Yeah, I started long ago with a set of Sabian B8's and I really liked them. Then the B8's fell off in quality and now they don't make them anymore, they only make B8 Pros which to my ears are just more expensive B8's and they don't sound as good. But we drummers are weird about cymbals. In general, we can appreciate drums from any manufacturer - Pearl, Ludwig, Gretsch, PDP, Yamaha, Tama, DW, what have you, but we're weird about cymbals. I'll admit. I'm weird, I don't like Meinl, I don't like most Zildjians (but I love the K Sweets) I love Paiste, but some odd their lines make me want to barf. Why are we like that?
@@manleybadger8311 I like some Meinls. They're really good at specialized designs for specific music (I have the Greb set of Sand cymbals). I only like the K Dark Custom line from Zildjian. I have 2 Paiste Dark Energy MK1 rides and don't care much for either. I do like the set of RUDEs I have. In all, I keep leaning towards Sabians for just great all-around sound. I think we see something pretty or sounds good in a video and then obsess over them. But yeah, the drums themselves are a matter of hardware and heads. Having a background in Metal, I drool over fancy pedals (But I have *some* restraint there).
Never throw away broken cymbals. Make stacks out of them.
Great idea! 🥁 ❤️
or you could just take a hole saw and cut out the cracks and sand over it
Or save them, dream cymbals gives you 2 dollars an inch for broken cymbals that you can put towards new dream cymbals l
Much appreciated for this video. Great overlook of cymbals.
Thanks, I'm new to drums. You helped me. Greetings from South America
You had the pronunciation of copper right the first time. COP-er.
I mean... I like the sound of the 2002s. Those cymbals made a big role on the "Bonzo" sound (even though he'd used Giant Beats as well), the "Alex VH" sound... I mean, it's not thaaat bad for recording ou live. But I get the point
Great. Thanks for the tips. Specially on metal density in relation to sound FIRST. But, eventually with Durability as well as Affordability too....
When you said “you will upgrade to better cymbals, and sooner than you think” so true I couldn’t bare the really cheap cymbals I had and saved up for a decent intermediate set and have added zildjian Ks over the years for a ride and crash and I’m way happier! -hoping to get some good hihats next bc I started with Pearl cx200 and they were barely playable…
Here are the different cymbal alloys, as you mentioned. The alloy is only half of the process. The rest is in the fabrication--where corners can be cut.
Brass: 60% Copper, 40% Zinc. Same brass that is used to make bullet casings.
Nickel-Silver: 80+% Copper, ~15% Nickel. You didn't mention this one; this alloy is not really used today, but it was the "budget" cymbal alloy before...
B8 Bronze: 90+% Copper, up to 8% Tin. Paiste made this made this famous and, more or less, killed off Nickel-Silver. There were others messing with smaller % of Tin--5 or 6%.
B10 to B15 Bronze: increasing amounts of Tin to find a budget/sound "sweet" spot. I think it's a marketing gimmick.
B20 Bronze: 80/20 ideal mixture. Also called Bell Bronze, for obvious reasons.
B25 Bronze: 75% Copper, 25% Tin. A "magical" (mythical) alloy, supposedly only found by chance in rare old K-Zildjians...or more hype. A few cymbal makers are playing with it today.
Save your money and stick with B20. I also suggest 100% Handmade Turkish over whatever the "big 4" are doing; I find these to be surprisingly affordable as well--if you know where to look.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this. You are 100% correct.
@@DimitarK You are welcome. I did manage to get the Nickel Silver mix wrong...it's 88/12 (bad memory). I got a 22" with my first drumset back in 1980. Very pingy. Still have it.
My suggestion is to take a look at the smaller Turkish manufacturers doing B20 100% handmade. Literally all of these were founded by people who worked for Istanbul and went out on their own after Agop passed away. Both post-split Istanbuls make great cymbals, however, I find the pre-splits preferable. I own a handful. Some names/brands: Masterwork, Turkish (Mehmet's other brand, made in the same factory), Pergamon, Agean, Bosphorus (as spelled), Anatolian, etc. Take a look at soundsanatolian.com (no sound files) for a fuller listing or look up the individual websites (or YT) for sounds.
@@mikegarwood8680 these are great but they are hand hammered which can be a good thing but also means that the cymbals are not consistent. hand hammered cymbals from the big 4 are going to be at least double the price but they have better quality control. You will want to try them out before you buy because some of these are terribly hammered with imbalances that create non musical overtones or overtones suitable only for very specific genres. when you buy a midgrade pro cymbal like an A custom you get something that is going to sound in the same ball park every time. the Turkish cymbals are still a much better deal if you find the right one for your application. Although they share the same lineage I also want to make it clear that I would not include Istanbul agop or Mehmet in this category. they are more expensive than other turk cymbals and can be considered major manufacturers. they also sell machine hammered cymbals and have the same level of quality control or even better quality control than the big 4.
I have "S" Zildjian b12 mastersound hi-hats, they don't sound like b8 or b20 very much to me. Sometimes they are too harsh like some would say. Out of the big three, I haven't seen Sabian go into making b12 lately though.. On videos, I prefer the meinl b10 than Zildjian b12, until Zildjian just came out with a dark set, now it's a little competitive.
Agree. My Istanbul Mehmet cymbals can stand toe to toe with the high-end Zildjian and Meinl cymbals with a fraction of the cost. 😅
Спасибо за видео
Great video! It's awesome to see you mixing in different videos and the overall growth and content of your channel since I've been a subscriber. You can thank Wyatt for that. You should consider shooting a "Day in the life of" video!
Thank you for you video! Really informative! But I have the AAX line ! Great sound overall but after 3 years of use( live, studio, rehearsal) the 18’’ is cracked twice! Which is really weird for a professional and expensive cymbals!! I didn’t throw of course, but it’s ugly, but still good! But how can such of high end cymbals can be fucked in just 3 years !! ( and I really keep care of my stuff like my baby’s)!
Honestly, is extremely overwhelming the options available. Im between the Paiste Rude or the Meinl Classic Custom dual. Can’t make up my mind.
What did you go for?
got a deal with Musicians Friends for the Meinl Classics customs, mixed of their metal series and regular ones and they are pretty good, thing is i got kicked out of my band like a month after i buy them🤣
At 52 I just started drumming and jumped into the deep end. Full K sweet set $2,000, full paiste2002 set $2300, full paiste signature set $2500 from the jump.
I think I'm OK now.
How are you liking the K Sweets? After months of research, I think I have settled on a K Sweet pack (15, 17, 19, 21).
Myself, I'd rather have two or three "high-end" cymbals. Rather, than a bunch of cheapies.
Be patient. Save up, and buy the best. You won't regret it..😊
Paiste invents B8 in 1965 year with Paiste stambul. Other companies can't make cymbals with B8 and they use this for only cheap series. For marketing purposes, they said how is that for low and cymbals but that is not true. Look at paste giants/ big beats, 2002, alpha
, RUDE.
That's true about Paiste. However, the sound is too bright and metallic for my taste :)
I've got to bust an alloy myth here. The information in this video is mostly correct. Yes, brass cymbals are hot garbage. With bronze, it's about sheet bronze vs cast bronze. Higher tin content like B20 (bell bronze) are cast, lower tin content like B8 is sheet bronze. While it's true that usually B20 is more expensive and a higher tier of cymbal and B8 tends to be more affordable and less pro quality, that's not always the case. I'm a professional drum instructor. I play a very high end kit. It's a DW Collector's series 6 piece maple kit with a specialty satin oil finish (a cherry to black fade😉) and my cymbals are Paiste 2002's. They sound amazing and as I like to say, if they're good enough for John Bonham, they're good enough for anyone. Also, B8's they may be, but inexpensive they are not.
Paiste's Pst lines are the most comparable B8 lines in regard to other manufacturers. Sabian's B8 line used to be excellent, but somewhere along the way they lessened in quality.
I'd argue that the Pst7 line is close to the 2002's.
I have too many rides, but I regret letting go of my 24" 2002.
@@Lupine. Yeah, I started long ago with a set of Sabian B8's and I really liked them. Then the B8's fell off in quality and now they don't make them anymore, they only make B8 Pros which to my ears are just more expensive B8's and they don't sound as good. But we drummers are weird about cymbals. In general, we can appreciate drums from any manufacturer - Pearl, Ludwig, Gretsch, PDP, Yamaha, Tama, DW, what have you, but we're weird about cymbals. I'll admit. I'm weird, I don't like Meinl, I don't like most Zildjians (but I love the K Sweets) I love Paiste, but some odd their lines make me want to barf. Why are we like that?
@@manleybadger8311 I like some Meinls. They're really good at specialized designs for specific music (I have the Greb set of Sand cymbals). I only like the K Dark Custom line from Zildjian. I have 2 Paiste Dark Energy MK1 rides and don't care much for either. I do like the set of RUDEs I have. In all, I keep leaning towards Sabians for just great all-around sound.
I think we see something pretty or sounds good in a video and then obsess over them. But yeah, the drums themselves are a matter of hardware and heads.
Having a background in Metal, I drool over fancy pedals (But I have *some* restraint there).
Sabian