The World’s Best Performance Road Bike. (And It’s Not Carbon…)
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- In this video:
Have you ever wanted to know what the world’s best road bike is? I know… 😉
This video sets out to prove what that bike is… but hurry if you want one because soon it won’t be available.
Link to my video on external cables:
• Internal VS External c...
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If I had to guess, this would be a sponsor match made in heaven!!🤣. You’ve single-handedly set the Ti industry off in a nice trajectory! I didn’t even know I needed one!
I wish I was sponsored by the Ti industry! That would be awesome! 😍Unfortunately Litespeed won’t even sell to dealers anymore, they do everything direct. That frame is my last one… 😢
Yes, sounds like a Litespeed sponsorship, especially when you forget to mention Lynskey Performance Ti frames. David Lynskey was the original founder of Litespeed and sold the company in 1999, then formed Lynskey Performance several years later. The Lynskey family has over 60 years experience in high end metal fabrication. Lynskey frames are just as good as Litespeed and usually are priced lower and come with a threaded BB shell as standard, which cost extra on Litespeed. However not sure about availability in the UK.
@@kennybinns6279 I showed both them and Moots in the video.
@@kennybinns6279 But then Lynskey charges you extra for the brushed finish, which Litespeed does not. When you get to the finished product, they're pretty close in price. Pick your favorite, I suppose. You'll get an awesome bicycle either way.
I enjoyed your video. Having been an avid cyclist for more than 30 years, I've owned more than 40 road, mountain, TT, and gravel bikes. The majority of my bikes have been made of carbon fiber. However, I've also owned several titanium bikes (1999 Litespeed Ultimate (favorite of all time), a 2004 Litespeed Vortex, a Lynskey Helix, and a Lynskey PRO GR gravel bike). Two years ago I purchased a Litespeed T1SL disc bike. I can say for certain that Litespeed is a first class operation. I live 4 hours from their facility in Chattanooga, TN. When my bike was finished, I went to their facility to pick it up. When I arrived, the bike was completed and sitting in their showroom. I was then given a detailed tour of the facility and was personally introduced to each person who made the frame and assembled the bike. The bike was "dialed" perfectly when I picked it up. No adjustments other than fit was needed. Flawless shifting. I personally believe titanium is second to none!
What a story! I wish I lived that close to their factory. 😁 Safe riding!
Hah - I have the same bike and had the same buying experience (live in Johnson City).
I've been riding with discs, on the road, for nearly 20 years. That said, I can't fathom the anti-rim brake movement. I understand why manufacturers are pushing it, but riders need to stop being led around by the nose. I have both systems, but they're used where their properties are best suited, and I'd like to see them both continue to be options for just that reason. This is another dumb move by 'Big Bike'.
I couldn’t agree more! Both technologies have their pros and cons. 👍🏻
Rim brakes are inferior technology. If they offered a significant advantage, they by professional riders who take earn their living by winning races.
Just stop. It’s not a conspiracy, Alex Jones. Disc brakes are better.
20 years?
@@the.communist Google '2003 Giant OCR Touring'.
I just can't buy a discbrakebike, wanted a lynskey helix ti frameset but it only comes with disc sorry not gonna but it, caliper brakes or no buy for me. I'm sure they'll make a return in the near future.
I bought a well used 2012 Trek Madone and used it for training and racing for about 3 years, logging about 35,000 kilometers over that period of time. I then sold the bike to a friend and it's still being ridden today. Contrary to many internet rumors carbon frames do not self destruct after a few years. I also have a titanium mountain bike and absolutely love it!
It’s true they don’t self destruct, but… they are more prone to damage due to a careless owner, less forgiving of silly mistakes and they do definitively get softer with age. Just the nature of the material wanting to revert to its original form. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 I'm no expert but that frame didn't seem soft to me even with untold miles on it, it seemed as stiff and nice as my new(er) Emonda I'm riding now.
@@reginaldscot165 there is no "definitely softer with age" on cf bikes.
@@S9999Frank They will all be landfill within 5 or 6 years.
I have now worn out seven carbon fiber bikes over the course of the last 20 years (three of them in the last nine years.) If you ride them a lot, like I do, they fail, full stop. I have never had one last more than 30,000 km, although the one I am currently riding (a 2020 S-Works Diverge) seems to be much more robust than the two Diverges I wore out before it. Back when carbon was a newer thing, some of those bikes only lasted one year (
The obvious question: if titanium is the best material, why is it not the most common in bikes sold today?
I already explained that.
Because it is not the best material, as it is too expensive for an item that is lunlikely to be maintained and serviced much more than 10 years, it is heavier than carbon, and not easily shaped into an aero shape. It is good only for people who love the feel of metal, just like steel bikes. Good enough for riding, but not cutting edge tech like carbon is.
@@S9999Frankyoure not very bright are you? Not likely to be maintained and serviced after 10 years? Are you really that stupid? titanium frames weighs almost exactly the same as a carbon of the same size.…. Get a clue fanboy
Arguably one of the best Bicycle Channels on UA-cam!
Wow, that’s very kind of you! ❤️
Bottom bracket stiffness and responsiveness is a key category that has been omitted.
Steel: -3
Alu: 0.5
CF: 1
Ti: not sure, but want to know!
Is it that simple? Surly it very much depends on thickness and design of the shell? 🙂
@@reginaldscot165of course. But, I suppose we are all after frames that weigh less than 1300g (as an absolute max).
@@StopTheRot Eh, perhaps, but unless you're doing the hard climbs, does a pound really matter ALL that much?? I easily stand to lose a pound or two (or three, or four, or ten) of body weight to make up that difference.
you're somewhat biased against carbon fiber, but ookay?
That’s very true! Happy to admit that. 😉 But it’s partly repeated bad experiences. 🤭
In 1982 I bought a bike from Performance catalogue - sight unseen. It was a steel framed touring bike with chosen components. I rode that bike from Miami to Seattle. THAT was my favorite bike of all time.
A 'titanium frame' is but a titanium/aluminum alloy - basically ...an aluminum tubing frame - a little stiffer, more corrosion resistant and MUCH pricier metal, but most of aluminum's characteristics. Titanium is but aluminum glorified...and a little stiffer.
So by your logic a steel frame is actually a carbon frame because steel “alloys” (yes steel is also an alloy) contains carbon?
Titanium frames have almost nothing in common with aluminium frames. They don’t suffer from micro-fractures with fatigue life. They don’t corrode. They are more compliant in general. (The opposite of stiffer) They can’t be hydro-formed. They are much more durable… In fact I’m struggling to think of one similarity between aluminium frames and titanium frames? They are both made of metal… they both contain some aluminium… that’s it. 😁
In fact in my personal experience a much better comparison can be made with steel and titanium. They are much more similar in ride quality and durability than aluminium. Except steel is about 2X the weight of titanium and can rust.
Riding up a lot in the mountains, rim brakes are “history”, this is out of question. Also in wet conditions you get big disadvantages compared to disk brakes which are easily balancing the higher system weight. If you ride only flat, rim brakes are still a good option. Titanium frames…as bigger the frames size you need, as more flexi the bottom bracket unfortunately gets. As a former Litespeed dealer I had several cracked Litespeed frames too, so they are not unbreakable. Cracks naturally occur or starting in the welding areas with titanium which is usually highly complicated to repair. Tripple butted titanium is more resistant than their aluminum double or tripple butted counterparts, that’s absolutely correct. In total, titanium is an amazing material with limited design capabilities. That’s the main reason why high end bikes are nowadays produced in carbon fibre. What 3D printing will soon bring us might change the industry again onto another path…let’s see…have fun riding ✌️
Some things here that I don’t agree with but it’s some good subjects for future videos so I appreciate the food for thought! 🙏🏻
Thank you for your input and all the best! 👍🏻🙂
Always the same marketing BS ever time someone criticizes the bike ballast. What you proclaim isn't true.
@@rosomak8244 Mhmmm…marketing BS? 🤔 interesting…
@@sa330jpuma Yes you a lying. Disc brakes don't perform better and they are far less reliable in esp. in the mountains. They don't perform any better in wet. The worst thing is that they fail almost instantly when they fail without any real notice. On the other side: they require finickle constant maintenance and they add unnecessary weight to the bike both directly as well as indirectly through increased requirements on the frame due to the inferior force application. They are a fanaberia for people who don't ride seriously and they where forced on the professionals.
@@rosomak8244 Hi, many thanks for your detailed reply. I am just wondering about your „vibes“, you must have had loads of problems with disc breaks causing lots of frustration on your side. I am sorry for you if this is or was the case. But you are also correct, disc breaks are generally in need of more maintenance compared to their rim brothers. Additionally, the first generations of roadbike disc brakes had loads of issues like stuck brake pistons and also fading when they got hot. Is it maybe possible, that you have one of these older series on your bike? Never the less, also with disc breaks you need to have a certain break „technic“ to get a certain system cool down in between heavy break events, same like with rim brakes. Maybe it is also an different „perspective“ you got? As former national team engineer I have obviously no big problems to vent and adjust disc breaks to the „point“. You might laugh, I still have a nice Cannondale SuperSix with rim breaks…I live in the Alps and sometimes when I take it for a ride here, down the 24% slopes, I scare my ass off that my modern carbon wheelset is not „melting“ away. And yes, you can imagine, I have specific brake pads for my rims, no worries 😉 I remember years ago on the same route getting into rain, I was partially not able to get the bike slowed down enough, able to safely get the needle turn downhill done. I guess we have many of colleagues with the same experience getting the rim flanges downhill dry enough able to get friction on them, especially using Carbon wheel sets. This never ever happened to me and all my colleagues anymore after switching over to disc breaks years ago. But if you only ride in flat or „hilly“ areas, you might not be able to feel the differences between the two break systems which is especially along the border zone of the doable more than only noticeable, especially for pro riders. Same like in the Formula One, it’s usually not the fastest car which will win, it is the one with the best break system or combination of, allowing them to break just a bit later than the competitors keeping the speed up. Newer roadbike disc break systems having also more distance from the break pads to the disc itself and the partially annoying scratch sounds are history now too. Wondering why all Mountainbikes have disc brakes if they are so badly performing 🤔 Yes, I also still know the times where we used the first hydraulic Magura rim brakes…and yes, we all were happy when that era was ending and we could turn to disc brakes. Never the less, I guess you are now on rim brakes riding, if not please approach a good service center and maybe evaluate to change break callipers to new generation ones if compatible. Greetings and I wish you always a safe and great relaxing ride ✌️🚵🏻♂️🚴♂️
Strong case and I absolutely agree. Great presentation
Thank you 🙏🏻 ❤️
I had a Ti road bike built by Jim Kish (Kish Fabrication) in 2012. It's absolute perfection. And with alu wheels, a mechanical SRAM Force groupset and full Chris King, nothing has gone wrong with it in all these years and still looks brand new since it's not painted. So glad I'm not a conformist.
What a wonderful comment! Good on you. And yes, never follow the flock! 🐑 🐑🐑🐑🐑 😂
I ride a lynsky and run disc brakes and carbon rims with 105 shimano drive train. I worked for zipp years ago doing tooling and the carbon wheels of the day, and I personally do not like the idea of calliper brakes on carbon or unmachined aluminium rims. I used to true up the carbon disc wheels and make tri spoke wheels. The combination I have just seems right on all levels feels like solid quality. The next little addition I want is a cane creek suspension head stem, possibly a seat tube to match. The bike has a specialised seat to replace a more expensive one that I could not stand. I have several nice bikes, and it is not always the first choice but a good thing.
If you have tried modern carbon rims with rim brakes its completely a different experience. I remember the old rims, in the wet you have zero friction. I was riding in the rain on my new rims and it was incredible breaking. ❤️
How much did Lightspeed pay you for this ad? "Devil dork discs", you lost a lot of credibility there. There are some advantages to discs, nothing wrong with both disc and rim being available. Again, there is not one answer, it depends on priorities.
I agree, disc for dirt rim for road. 🙂👍🏻 Nothing, I paid them.
I love the look of that beautiful titanium frame!❤
Unfortunately,I can't afford that!
I would have to go into the debt, to be able to afford even the cheapest Litespeed😢
My uncle sold me his old 1997 Faggin road steel bike! Columbus SL beauty,in titanium color! 1760 grams,in size 59' I'm 186cm tall,and I weigh 75kg! It is a pleasure to ride that frame! I put some used relatively light parts on it,and I decided that one speed is all I need on my daily commutes,and I do ride a lot, since I don't own a car! The bike weighs 8 kg atm...Genuine bicycle abuser here !😅
Greetings from Croatia from Kris 😎
Plenty of ways to make more money buddy. 🙂 I heard a 15 year old kid on UA-cam the other day made 50k drop shipping. I saw a young lad make 15k in 5 minutes on day trading. If you are commenting here you have the internet, if you cycle you are probably smarter than your average guy, I’m sure you can come up with a plan.
All the best and safe riding! ❤️
@@reginaldscot165 Thank you 😎
Almost done building a 2021 T1SL rim brake but with Ultegra Di2 12-speed. Bought it before watching this video and now I am even more excited to ride it!
Congratulations, excellent choice. 👍🏻🙂
Great commercial for Litespeed.😊
I think stiffness to weight are missing in your sheet.
Carbon fiber is a directional oriented material. While it is porous in one direction it is strong in the other.
A carbon frame has probably the best stiffness to Weight ratio.
Nice comment. 👍🏻🙂 Trust me, the T1SL is more than stiff enough. 😉
Love my Columbus Niva Chrome 20+yrs old. Raced, toured, still rides like new ❤
Lovely 🥰
I copied this from a spork manufacturer website
Titanium uses nearly 4 times the embodied carbon (CO2 emitted during the manufacture, transport and construction of materials), and more than 3 times the embodied energy of aluminum
Depends if you consider CO2 a problem and also depends how you get your energy I guess? Maybe Ti should be 0.5 for that. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 Logic error. Regardless of whether you see CO2 as a problem or not, nothing changes the different emissions.
Street cred is important. I will openly admit on a public forum that I buy carbon frames due to peer pressure. It sounds like I’m cutting edge and modern when I tell friends I have a carbon bike 🚲 👍
True, peer pressure is the main reason people choose carbon in Brunei. They don’t want to be the odd one out, it’s especially strong in Asia.
@@reginaldscot165 And here I am, still riding on aluminium after 11+ years of riding. I now have two aluminium road frames, one rim brake (already built a year ago at home) and one disc brake (only has its groupset, everything else isn't bought yet).
My Litespeed titanium bike frame cracked through no fault of my own. I never even rode over a curb, for example. Litespeed wouldn't give me the time of day. Said the lifetime warranty was warranted for normal wear and tear(?!?!?). The frame cracked due to normal wear and tear? AND it is not covered by the lifetime warranty??
That’s unfortunate and frustrating. What year was the bike made? I know when the company changed hands they stopped warranting some of the older frames.
😮
totally agree but i missed the boat. Had to settle for a used lynskey helix. The intricate tube shapes on litespeed frame tells alot on how the bike rides. This to me, is the Ti version of the lengendary supersix evo/caad12.
Great comment! Hope your new/used bike is awesome. 🙂👍🏻
TI is such a nice looking material, a bike built out of TI is just beautiful and stays like that forever
I hope so! 😁👍🏻
Non replaceable derailleur hanger on a titanium bike is a mistake. If it snaps you are s.o.l. until you can find a titanium welder.
Good thing the T1SL has a replacement hanger then. 🤭 it’s also made of titanium and fixed with 2 screws. 👍🏻
@reginaldscot165 ?titanium screws.. I would advise not so they shear.. but then I guess, you'd need a new derailleur!
@@timhull8664 Screws from titanium are fine. Aluminium is problematic.
@@reginaldscot165 it looks like one piece in the video sorry.
@@The2808erik no problem! It’s because it’s all the same material so it blends in. 🙂👍🏻
The carbon fiber test with the truck running over it is misleading. Carbon fiber is very strong depending upon the direction in which the pressure is applied. It was never intended to take stress in the lateral direction. Along the axis, however, it is quite strong.
Then how is the test misleading? 😂 It shows the truth that carbon tubes aren’t as strong as titanium if you crush them. That’s not “misleading” at all. 🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 Do people routinely have a need to crush their carbon bicycles? I would hope not. I suppose it proves that titanium holds up better if your bicycle gets run over something, but if that happens, you've got a while different set of problems to deal with, anyway.
I'm not arguing against titanium. Heck, I just ordered a Litespeed Arenberg yesterday! I'm 66, and I know that, barring some catastrophic event, it's the last bicycle I'll ever need to buy. Plus I just think titanium frames are cool. Everybody has carbon. Titanium is unusual. Not everybody has titanium. And I think it just looks awesome.
But I did not buy Litespeed because carbon frames were shattering out from under me. Carbon fiber frames are designed to take high stress in the directions in which riding the bicycle will present that stress. Why add the additional weight of making carbon fiber tubes crush resistant, which you could do (It's all in the layup), if that's never supposed to happen anyway? And if it does, like I said, survivability of the bicycle is likely to be the least of your worries.
I found my next frameset. Already have Dura Ace 9100 to put on it. The M2 Racer was a Litespeed Ghisallo.. Litespeed. Take my money!!
I just built one with the same Dura ace for a friend. 6.5kg 👍🏻🙂
A few weeks ago, I saw your video and was immediately inspired to look for this frame. I found a gently used one in my size right away and just today, I bought it! It was a great deal, and comes with an ENVE fork and a Cane Creek headset. I'm really excited to build it and take it for a ride!
You did a great job finding it! I’m sure you will love it! Very happy riding and be safe. ❤️🙂👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 thanks so much! 😀👍🏻
my titanium bike developed a crack in the downtube after 10 yr of hard riding
That’s sad. I know some riders who had them for 20+ years so far. If you live in the US there are a few people who can repair that. 👍🏻
I bought a T1 sl last year rim brake and it’s my favorite bike out of my three bikes hands down. Just a fluid ride , very comfortable, handles in a sharp manner and just feels solid . It’s stiff but not on par with the Carbon bikes I own . BMC slr01 three which is 2019 rim brake and a 2022 Time Scylon rim brake which is an absolute savage on the road . Love my bikes but the T 1sl gets ridden the most . Not much but is my general go to . Great review and congrats on in my opinion the best bike on the planet hands down !
Thank you! Sounds like an awesome bike you have. ❤️ All the best and safe riding! 🙂👍🏻
I would love to own a Time!
I have a T1SL disc that I picked up at the plant (I live in Tennessee). Great bike and they are very competitively priced compared with comparable high end carbon. Knowing it will essentially last forever is a nice bonus.
Excellent 👌🏻 🙂
Did I just get sold on purchasing a Titanium bike? I was spitting expletives at the title of this video and now I'm suddenly in the hunt for the right Titanium bike. I'm not sure whether to thank this guy or curse him out😂. Thanks for the video!
I’m glad I could help! I hope! 😂
Safe riding!
@@reginaldscot165 🙂👌
You caught my attention with "rim brake"!
Rim for road. ❤️
why the carbon fork? I see that many manufacturer sell frames with alu but carbon forks. Any logical reason for that? And when it comes to disc vs rim brakes: it's also a matter of the right quality of pads. best ones I think are swisstop - these are awesome. I tested these downhill in the alps at 80-90 km/h . But 30$ for two pairs.. the disk adds weight. is less responsive (or less forgiving) at high speeds, but is cheaper over time? Or not ?. Am I missing something? Thanks for your great channel and please keep up your honest and truthful speech!
Thank you very much. Simple answer is cost, carbon forks are cheap because they are mass produced. 🙂
I have Litespeed Saber and T1SL disc. Super good bikes!
Excellent! ❤️
I HAVE AN ARCHON T1 THE DOGS BOLLOCKS. But unfortunately you're wrong about Titanium being the BEST metal for a bike frame. Alluminium is better for many reasons.
Thanks, such as? 🙂
I’m sick of disposable bikes and I decided two years ago that I would never buy another one. The only reason I have a carbon bike currently is that it was a warranty replacement of the previous one and I wasn’t going to say no when Specialized gave me a $4500 frame after a dropout dropped out of my previous frame. That frame was on its way out anyway - - it was creaking at the bottom bracket, the headset, and the dropouts.
I have now worn out seven carbon fiber bikes over the course of the last 20 years (three of them in the last nine years.) If you ride them a lot, like I do, they fail, full stop. I have never had one last more than 30,000 km, although the one I am currently riding (a 2020 S-Works Diverge) seems to be much more robust than the two Diverges I wore out before it. Back when carbon was a newer thing, some of those bikes only lasted one year (
The weird tubes are there to improve performance. But you can get most Ti bike in more traditional cheap shapes, Moots are like that and yes they are expensive. But you can get custom build Ti from China for $900 USD now and there is also plenty floating around on the second hand market. 👍🏻🙂
@@reginaldscot165, like I said, i’m a bit embarrassed that I dislike these tube shapes. Bicycles should be about function, not fashion. It’s kind of like people who want their bicycles to have traditional thin tubes and double triangle construction. I just need to get over it.
I own both a 2019 T5 and a 2022 Watia; both are great bikes. For me not getting beat up by the ride is very important and these Ti frames have enough compliance not to feel numb or stiff through the ride. Durability is important for big downhills as I never have an existential crisis that a frame failure may occur on sketchy roads. Sure weight is a consideration, but that may be addressed through a better diet.
Great comment and weight can also be solved by equipment choices. 🙂👍🏻
Steel and aluminum corrode and Ti frets, meaning it doesn't like other metals against it. Aluminum bike frames actually have aeffective life span of just about three years and then they go dead, no spring in the frame, looses it's pop. Feels like riding a brick.
I couldn’t find any information on “titanium frets?” Other than guitar strings. 😁 It can suffer from galling, but no more than other materials, I haven’t found my titanium frames react to anything yet. 🙂
Man you basically have me convinced im up in the air between the litespeed toscano or the reilly reflex🤷
Wonderful! I’m sure any will be a bike you will love. ❤️🙂
I disagree, I had an aluminum cross frame, in the late 90s that was way more plush than any bike I have ever owned. Apparently, you have never ridden an aluminum Alan (they also built frames for many other manufacturers). Given they were not very durable, nor was it very efficient, but it was absolutely plush.
Ok so 1 examples doesn’t invalidate the point of the video. Also I said “i” have never ridden an alu frame I consider comfortable. In comparison with the titanium or steel frames I have ridden.
Also if it was a cross frame how big were your tyres? Are you comparing like for like or 35s with say a carbon bike on 23s?
@@reginaldscot165 But your premise was the best material for a frame and you knocked points off from aluminum for comfort. It CAN be comfortable that was my point, depends on the frame-builder. Finding the "best" material should take into consideration the 1 example (BTW not one they built thousands of them for at least themselves and 3 other manufacturers)
No it was that cross frame compared to other steel and aluminum frames (Ritchey, Redline and a custom AL frame) all running the same wheels and tires.
You did hit the nail on the head though, "frame comfort" is literally far less important than the seatpost, wheels and tires, so much so that I have a Canyon gravel bike that would be incredibly more jarring without the carbon post, which makes it feel very smooth.
A friend has a Bossi Strada Ozzie made Ti frame. Looks like a silver carbon frame. No round tubes! I have not seen anything similar in titanium.
Yes they look impressive, aero and stiff, i think they make the weld thick and then sand over them to make it smooth, they also use 3D printing I believe? But it makes for a heavier build and they are on the pricey side… but still, very pretty. 👍🏻🙂
Aluminium will accepted by scrap yards easier than titanium, most scrap yards don't deal with titanium due to lack of sellers. Scrap dealers will also take non carbon wheels, aluminium does take a lot of energy to make, I don't know if more than titanium. I would give aluminium a higher environmental
Good point 👍🏻
All carbon frames are just ONE crash away from total loss.
Sometimes yes. But i suppose to be fair most frames don’t like being crashed. 😁
LOL, talking about Moots. Dude, their construction techniques and tolerances are much better than LS- and they do double butt their tubes, the RCS model which I own and the CRD. Works of art. And look online for LS frame failures, plenty to chew on. Very few Moots. So it's far more than just weight, mate. If I cared about weight, I'd get carbon
I will agree that the moots welds do look lovely. But I’m getting better tube manipulation, lower weight and less cost. If you don’t care about weight then why not buy a steel bike? Looks the same as a moots? Or a Chinese frame, again they look same as moots because moots don’t bother with complexity in their designs. That reduces work and cost for them, but rather than charge accordingly they are some of the most expensive Ti bikes out there?
Yes, double not triple butted. About frame cracks. 1) LS have been doing this longer than anyone else so you would expect to see more of their bikes with cracks. 2) they are always pushing the boundaries of what is possible. For example the T1SL. When you push boundaries you sometimes find the limits of the material. Hopefully that’s what the lifetime warranty is for. 3) They have changed hands as a company and at 1 time they were owned by people who sort profit over quality. If you check the dates on the cracked frames online they are most common in that time frame. You can still see people on the LS Facebook page riding LS bikes that are 30+ years old. Moots are nice, but they are boring conservative bikes that cost way too much and are too heavy for the price. Why not use the amazing material of titanium to its fullest advantage? 🤷🏻♂️
All the best and ride safe! ❤️
Thanks Reginald just acquired a Litespeed Archon...great riding experience
Fantastic! ❤️
Love titanium and would love to own from T-Lab. However, a carbon bike from Time or Look is hard to beat.
Hard but not impossible. 😉
That's all wonderful until the frame cracks; turns out it's pretty common.
Stainless steel is sounding good.
Is it more or less common than carbon or aluminium cracking? Are there people still riding on 30 year old Ti bikes? (Yes 😉) Yes some of the older ones cracked in the early days when Ti was a new material and nobody knew how to weld it properly. But that was 38 years ago. Don’t forget, many Ti bike come with a 10 to 15 year warranty on the frame as well. So if anything is going to happen you would expect it in the first 10 years. 👍🏻
What I can't get my head round is, if Titanium is that great why use Carbon forks?
Some people do use titanium forks, but they are very expensive because titanium is hard to shape to that level… but 3D printing is getting better. 😁
@@reginaldscot165 Anecdotal I know. But I've seen more Titanium frame failures than any other material. Nearly always cracks near welds. And including ones manufactured by Litespeed.
My first ti bike was a litespeed build, broke it twice was fixed once was out of warranty the second time. Early 90's they didn't have lifetime warranties.
That sucks! I had a similar experience with a custom made carbon bike in the early 2000s. No warranty. 😭
I have owned litespeed frames in the past. One of them developed a crack at a welding joint. Several of my friends owned litespeed around 2003-2010. A few had cracks and got replaced under warranty. Ti frames are not bullet proof
“Ti frames are not bulletproof.” The video seems to show they are. 😅
What a nice video, very comprehensive and clear, I like hoe you compared the frame materials, very useful indeed…
Thank you very much, it was a difficult subject to explain but I tried to do it in an easily to understand way. 😁 I think it worked out ok. 😉
I have two Litespeed's. One is a 1994 Litespeed Classic which I just upgraded to 11 Speed. Yep, still riding it. Fits like a glove and will never give it up. The second is from 2020. Litespeed Ultimate with Disc brakes. With my weight Disc brakes are a savior. Have one carbon fiber frame that I just bought. Really love it for its comfort and speed. I also have a steel Pinarello from 1997. That is more a retired bike as the paint job is still in excellent condition. As the saying goes..."Steel is real!" I really can't argue with you on your assessment. I won't know for another year or so if the carbon fiber bike was a bad decision or not. That is about the only nitpick I have. Otherwise, great job.
Excellent comment! Thank you and you sound like you have a lovely collection of bikes! 🙂👍🏻
Been tried and raced using carbon frames available on the market but when i tried t1sl disc im impressed with the performance.. I tried t1, lynskey but t1sl disc far more better.. and i agree t1sl is the best titanium frame by far.. Worth the money. Performance speaks for the price itself
Wonderful! 😍
I am not currently looking for a new bike, but if i was, after watching this, i would certainly consider a titanium one. Few things, though, i must say, don't add up. Firstly , you choose a titanium seatpost over a carbon one for solidity, but at the same time you built your bike with carbon wheels, and i would say, that wheels are way more prone to damage from bumps etc. than seatposts are. Secondly, if titanium is more comfortable then carbon (and i can't say if it is or is'nt, i never rode on titanium bike) why do they put carbon forks on those ti frames?
I will gladly explain! 🙂
Because when working on the bike I clamp the seatpost, so it’s much better to have a titanium one. I also pick the bike up by the post and I clamp lights and bags to it, so having something that doesn’t mind having dirt rub against it for hours is a major advantage. 😁 Also it’s also more comfortable than a carbon seatpost in the same dynamiter. 👍🏻
As for the fork, many reasons, 1) to make a fork in titanium in that shape would be very Difficult and expensive, carbon is a cost saving material in this situation. 2) they can outsource production to other companies. 3) in a head on crash you are likely to damage the fork, so it’s cheaper to replace. 4) it’s possible to get lighter forks.
As 3D printing improves I’m sure a titanium one of quality and Low weight will become available. Then I will definitely buy one! 🤭
@@reginaldscot165 Ok, thanks for reply :) Bike looks like a beast with those wheels on, have to say :D very nice channel for cycling related stuff btw
It looks great but lightness is only one factor.Being heavier doesn't make a bike bad.
How about a breakdown of other Lightspeed frames. I am addicted to disc brakes. I am looking at Ultimate Gravel v1, v2 and Watia for more tire clearance. I have updated my ~2000 Moots YBB into 27.5 and tubeless and its like brand new after over 20 years of hard service.
Can do 👍🏻
Can do 👍🏻🙂
Well, we've got something better than the World's Best Bike. We've got Tom Sturdy Cycles.
That’s cool, what makes them better? 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 Check them out. 3D printed titanium.
Good on you for mentioning Lynskey! Absolute best value in titanium!! Litespeed had a pretty soiled history. I was in the industry when they started and they lost a lot of their employees to small manufacturers. Also their first lower cost bikes were garbage flexi noodles. ( early to late 90s)
That being said. I’m sure they are waaaaaaay better now. The industry is always changing sometimes not for the better.
That’s very true unfortunately. 👍🏻
Not all steels are created equal. Take XCR for example. Does not rust and because it has an incredibly high tensile strength it can be made to very very thin tubes and hence also light
True 👍🏻 I considered it for my steel bike but for the cost I decided against it. 🙂
@@reginaldscot165 i have a custom frame made of XCR. Highly recommended. Was hard to choose against ti by the builder said there are more tube shapes in xcr than in ti and hence it would have been easier for him to tune the ride quality. And the bike is indeed even better than I would have ever expected
I agree with you 100%!
Awesome! 😇 🙏🏻 Thank you! 😁
Does Carbon actually deteriorate over time? I know Alloy does, didn't realize Carbon does too
Ah, the polymers holding the carbon could deteriorate
The glue does yes.
Fun video with a clickbait title. Totally unscientific opinionfest. Don’t get me wrong - I love Ti as a frame material, having put ~100k miles into a Lynskey-era Litespeed over the last ~21 years. However, things as basic as tire width and proper fit have a greater effect on comfort than frame material. The Ti “magic carpet ride” is a myth - Ti rides like good steel - good, but nothing mystical.
Given that the rim-brake LS is limited to 25mm or 28mm tires, it’s already behind the curve, in terms of comfort and road holding, compared to disk bikes that can run 30-32mm tires. This isn’t s ding against rim brakes - they’re simply more limited than disks.
You need to see my latest video to educate yourself on the “myth of titanium” please stop saying that, nobody actually believes titanium has mythical properties. But yes it’s a fact they ride smooth. You yourself admit that, so why say it’s a myth? 🤔
If you want a gravel bike then buy a gravel bike, but 23s/25s are faster and rim brakes are better for racing (lighter, more aero, better feedback) this video is about a “performance road bike.” The best you can get. (Well you can’t anymore.) if you think the heavier carbon disc bikes are better name one? I dare you! 😉
Does Ti accept paint?
I always see them bare.
You can, but most people don’t because it’s kind of pointless to paint titanium.
I saw this video when it first came out however forgot to comment.
I previously owned a 2004 Litespeed Classic which unfortunately developed a crack on the drive side chain stay. I attribute this to the small circumference
I now ride a Moots Vamoots CR custom which to me seems stiffer and has much larger chainstays...
Yes there was a bad period to buy a Litespeed. But the T1 is on a different level. My friend just got one and he can’t believe how it rides, like nothing else. ❤️
The comfort of aluminum being 0 is so 20 years ago. Modern Quality frames ride as good if not better than mid tier carbon
The most modern aluminium frame I tried was the Bowman Palace R. So quite modern and it got 10/10 in cycling media. However, it’s far from comfortable. I also tried a Allez and many of the CAADs, 8/10/12, non are what I would describe as “comfortable” in comparison with steel and titanium.
Maybe they have gotten better, but this is a comparison of materials and in relative terms aluminium just doesn’t feel as good as steel or Ti.
Could you name some examples of a comfortable aluminium bike please? I’d do my best to borrow one and try it. 🙂
@reginaldscot165 I built my son an Ultegra dressed bike using a Scott frame 7005 aluminum. Obviously it doesn't ride like my Lynskey but it rides almost as well as the 4000 dollar Specialized I rode last year **I don't remember the model**.
However I am a large rider 6'4" 220 so my experience might differ from others.
Side note, have you tried a Lynskey Helix? It is a unique bike
You did mention briefly repairability, a key factor especially for a touring bike, you can find someone to weld it anywhere in the world
With titanium it’s not simple. But steel it’s definitely possible. 👍🏻🙂
Great video thanks! What are your thoughts/experience on the new Litespeed Spezia?
No experience, I think they should make a rim brake version because supposedly it’s the lightest disc bike they have ever made. So by that logic it’s lighter than the T1SL disc, therefore if it was made in rim it would be the New worlds lightest titanium bike frame. But they won’t and as far as I’m concerned buying a disc brake road bike is pointless. MTB yes, gravel yes, but not road. 🤷🏻♂️
After this video, he didn't realize he had 7 holes in his skin.
I’m not sure I follow? 🙃
@@reginaldscot165 : LOL! See the chainring?
Much progress has been made, all Motogp frame are built with aluminium in 2024 (and for KTM steel-tube) chassis, with carbon thought to be too stiff. But, like money, in racing more is good but is never enough. There was, however, one believer that carbon fibre, far superior to metal in strength-to-weight, could be made to work
You are talking motor bikes? That’s not my subject so I can’t comment. 🙂
There was, however, one believer that carbon fibre, far superior to metal in strength-to-weight, could be made to work. Ducati Corse’s first MotoGP engineer Filippo Preziosi’s innovative style saw him make a minimal carbon-fibre box that combined the function of airbox and main chassis spar. Isn’t carbon too stiff, we asked him? No, he insisted. " The material is not important in itself; it is how you use it. " Can you see Peak Torque & Preziosi have something in common ?
Well I guess that's settled, Reginald is the self proclaimed judge, jury & executioner! (of Al, steel and carbon) Best bike that ever was or ever will be!
Ha ha yes indeed. 😁
Rim brakes are fine if you don't ride big mountains but absolutely frightening if you're pushing it on long descents with carbon wheels!
Did it not long ago and it was fine, I think the rims got to about 40C, the main factor was my lack of skill to be honest. That and the hills were so steep that slowing down was causing the back end of the bike to lift! Any more power and I’d have flipped the bike. 😅
great, now i need a titanium bike... wait, I already have five of them😂 Litespeed builds great frames! Don't forget Morati, they also used to build parts for rockets and aerospace and had some victories in MTB world championships.
Titanium… it’s the thinking man’s bike material. 😉
A good thing about metals v carbon is recyclability, carbon is difficult to recycle.
Yes it’s almost impossible at the moment. Hopefully someone will work it out before we all drown in broken carbon frames! 😂
Hi Reginald, why would you prefer rim brake over disc brake?
The simple answer is because in my particular circumstances. (Riding on the road, fast, in a country that doesn’t get snow or ice.) it’s better.
But there is a stack of reasons why it’s better in road bikes in general… I’m planning to make a video on the subject soon.
I'm a rim brake aficionado. I have a TCR advance pro and a Ridley Noah SL.
Titanium is not able to sustain the interest long term unlike rim brakes which will always be present.
Declaring your Titanium Litespeed as the world's best performing bike is reaching it.
If u ask 100 pro cyclists, I doubt 1 would agree with your conjecture.
Have 100 pro cyclists ridden this bike? No.
So aren’t you reaching? 😅
You make 2 statements without justification or evidence. Not an argument. 🤷🏻♂️
Hi Reginald. Top video!, Which litespeed bike should I get if I just want to ride for exercise, fitness and just go for long rides? Do I go with the T5?
I think they do a city bike with a straight handle bar called the CHEROHALA CITY. It’s the cheapest option if you just want to ride. Unfortunately it’s disc only. If you want a proper road bike, light, with rim brakes, comfortable and fun to ride then yes, 100% get a T5. Really great bike. ❤️
@@reginaldscot165 thanks for the prompt response Reginald! Much appreciated! I will watch all of your content from now on :-)
@@reginaldscot165 I actually wanted a bike with drop bars so the T5 it is. Thanks!
That is quite heavy for such a tiny frame tbh. Your information is sketchy to say the least, it is not uncommon for litespeed titanium frames to crack around the weld.
Carbon fibre is the only frame material that doesn't have a fatigue life, therefore a well engineered and constructed frame will most definitely not wear out , to the contrary it will still be as good as the day it was made many, many years after steel, aluminium or even titanium (if the welds haven't cracked) are well and truly passed their best.
You must be trolling. Has to be the funniest comment of the week so far. 😂
@@reginaldscot165 nope not at all I was perusing your channel and found many inaccuracies tbh. If you do research you will find that my statements have factually sound engineering foundations.
If we look at the carbon fibre sheet itself then perhaps we can say it has a very long lifetime. But to build a frame, we need epoxy resin etc and they all have limited lifetime, like when exposed to UV ray, etc.
@@jojoanggono3229 Firstly many new epoxy resins have UV resistant properties regardless the top coat protects (paint or lacquer) the structure from UV rays, secondly the "limited" functional life of epoxy if it isn't over stressed is far beyond the life expectancy of a human. These are accepted engineering facts.
titanium doesn't degrade over time, could be same for plastics, but we don't praise them for being non degrading and living 1000 of years in a ground.
Steel by rust returns to nature as if it was never there before (nature will absorb it and nourish). Aluminum much less and even less titanium. a Ti frame will be found there 2000 years after... that is NOT A POSITIVE from environmental standpoint. (I love it by the way, just the argument is very bad)
Explain further? Plastic brakes down into tiny bits that we then consume via water and food. Titanium is inert and doesn’t brake down over time. So no need to bury it in the ground, it can be recycled and reused endlessly.
I don’t follow why this is a bad thing? 🙂
Titanium does corrode. Especially electric corrosion during contact with other metals. Also titanium alloys may have some aluminium, vanadium and other toxic metals.
My answer to that is if you do a Google search for dose titanium corrode: “Titanium has outstanding corrosion resistance.” And in all the years I have worked with titanium and serviced titanium bikes I have not seen any corroding on the titanium itself.
Second answer would be, if titanium is toxic as you insinuate then why do they make camping cups and cutlery 🍴 out of titanium? And why do they use it in both medical equipment and in implants. For example I have several titanium plates and screws in my skull.
@@reginaldscot165well it depends on used alloy for medical purposes i think, they are different
What model would you recommend for more of an endurance type Ti bike?
T5 or if you can them second hand T6
XCr / 953 stainless steel is the logical choice, all titanium benefits none of the drawbacks.
Eh? What drawbacks? 😳 I almost bought a Xcr frame, but they are really expensive and still way heavier than titanium? Stainless can also still rust in the right conditions.
But maybe I need education, please explain. 🙂👍🏻
It has to me made of 316 marine grade s/s of known origin (I. E aerospace grade)
@@reginaldscot165 top shelf stuff is usually expensive yes, but so is top shelf Ti. Litespeed is not top shelf Ti, no offence. Ti frames are very well known to crack. Ti used in other industried doesn't matter as those properties depend on specific application. With stainless you get no corrosion and no cracking.
@@cosinus_square My XCR Cinelli had corrosion and my cable stop broke off due to either corrosion or contaminated welds. No more XCR for me.
@@stephenang499
Hey I have a Cinelli XCr Magic Mirror. What should I be aware of mate, please share, I love my bike!
You cannot weld titanium in oxygen ritch iviroment , the welds will be contaminated.
You need a chamber with innert gas to proper weld titanium.
Partly correct. The way most people do it is fill the frame with inert gas and use a nozzle on the torch that emits a stream of gas called as gas shroud or gas shield. 🙂
I like my titanium bike..
Cool!
@reginaldscot165 BTW. Its made by Enigma, think the frames are imported.. but its super comfy..
Well done mate! You make a very solid argument for Titanium and Litespeed. My preference is steel rim. It’s what I’m talking to PBP. Arguably You would want your most comfortable bike on a 1200 km adventure. I know eventually I will also own a high end titanium bike 😊
Thank you, I’m really glad you enjoyed the video, this one is special to me, it’s one of those videos I wanted to make for a long time and is on a subject I feel is important. Hopefully it is beneficial to people to see frame material in a different perspective. 🙂🙏🏻
Oh dear….
Looks nice, yes. Having 4 Ti bikes myself, it pretty much goes without saying, I like Ti bikes, but they DO NOT preform as my CF bikes
This one does. Trust me. I have had all bike material types and this is like nothing else. I just built one for a friend who normally rides the TCR and he’s said it’s amazing, so good he doesn’t want to ride his TCR anymore. 😂 (was said to be in the top 10 of stiffest bikes by the professional reviewer!)
What do you think of the Dolan ADX Disc compared to the Litespeed Arenberg, for an enduro bike? I prefer the top tube being a bit more horizontal on the Dolan. Is its manufacture quite good?
No Idea, but Litespeed are the best in titanium technology.
@@reginaldscot165 I will definitely keep that in mind, sir. You may want to take a peek at the Dolan brand, as well. They get good reviews. If you're curious, that is. But thanks for the rapid response. It will no doubt serve as a strong influence on my decision. Keep up the good work, Mr. Scot.
Dolan frames are made in China and Dolan stick their decals on them.
manufacturers do inform consumers how not to damage carbon frame, and when They do get damaged, they usually blame the customers😂
All manufacturers blame customers. It’s step 1. 🙃
Except that Carbon wheels are poor for rim brake. If you have a carbon wheel rim brakes are not optimal
That’s definitely debatable. A subject for another video for sure. 😁👍🏻
@@reginaldscot165 Maybe I am using the wrong pads but all of my bikes have carbon wheels and rim brakes and they don't function as good as the alloy wheel with rim brakes
@@se7ensnakes I have got Campagnolo Bora wheel sets with the AC3 brake track finish and when used with the Campagnolo pads the braking is on par with alu rims... in dry conditions. In the wet it is a whole different story though, so when the weather forecast is shite I am on my disc brake bike :D.
Any reason why you choose a 3T fork over the factory standard and is that a 1" fork?
It’s lighter and I think a bit more comfortable. That’s all. 😁 the rake is about the same. 1 1/8 I believe
your table is a mess: some of the attributes you list on the environment category belong in fact elsewhere (longevity... which is quite the same with durability).
And some relevant omissions: carbon footprint for turning titanium to tubes and then welding those tubes?
Etc. etc....
If you make a point that a bike is the best performance bike, then some of your categories are irelevant.
Longevity is different from durability. Something can last a long time, but if used isn’t resilient. Durability relates to how something can resist damage whereas longevity relates to if a material naturally degrades over time.
I think all aspects are important when finding the best performance road bike. It is a performance road bike and the categories show why it’s a better choice than other performance road bikes. 🙂
OOPS,tablet trouble again.Having had 2 90s Litespeeds with the David Lynskey signature I wondered why they seemed to fade away for a while.
They were not cheap or the lightest back then but sure rode nicely.
The problem with the older ones was tyre clearance even a 23mm had just enough space to clear,if you went over fresh tarmac you could get a small stone jammed in there,would not take today's 28mm.
If I could find an older Litespeed frame would it be possible to fit 650b wheels to convert to a gravel bike ?
Would love a T1sl but no way to fund that at present.
Long live rim brakes and external cables on road bikes!
,
You will be surprised to hear I still use 23mm tyres. I haven’t found the need to go bigger on my T1SL yet and they fit really nicely on my carbon rims. 🙂
Thank you for the comment! Ride safe!
@@reginaldscot165 Have you ever tried wider tires?
I’m pretty sure that’s not 6.8kg. I had the same frame in the same size, with Dura Ace and Bora Ultra 50 wheels, and it was 7.4kg
It’s not 6.8kg it’s 6.4kg. 6.5kg on a non race day. (I use heavier tyres for training.) 😎
But your wheels are heavier than mine, your group set is heavier and probably you weren’t using TPU tubes? 🤔 🤷🏻♂️
❤ compared to archon T1. Which one is better
That I couldn’t say as I have never ridden that bike. But if you can pick one up second hand why not! 😁👍🏻
Carbon bikes are that fragile? I just bought a carbon mounting bike that is carbon. I am looking at gravel bikes. Was looking at a carbon Trek Checkpoint. Maybe I should go with a Lynskey instead?
The tubes getting crushed under the truck is not a valid test of the carbon. You can orient the carbon fibers in a direction that would be much stronger that the titanium tube. The tube in this video probably had the fibers all running axially to the tube.
Yes, my last carbon frame only lasted 6 months before it cracked. I have seen plenty of carbon MTBs snapped as well. Carbon doesn’t like impact.
The orientation of the weave won’t help you much, because it’s a crushing force and carbons strength is in tensile loads. The only way you could make a carbon tube as strong as that Ti tube in that test is to increase the wall thickness. It would need to be almost a solid tube with as little hole running down it as possible. And the grit rubbing on the tube would still significantly damage the tube surface. Also that carbon tube would end up being about 3 or 4 times heavier than the Ti tube by the time it was thick enough. That would make the point of using carbon totally redundant.
For example, space X tried making their rocket fuel tanks from carbon fibre. It didn’t work, they kept collapsing under the load and making them stronger would have required so much material they would have been too heavy. So they switched to stainless steel! The steel tanks ended up being not only stronger but lighter than the carbon. 🤷🏻♂️
@@reginaldscot165 Fortunately for carbon fiber the crushing load of a truck running over a tube is irrelevant to a bike frame. I just watched Ben Delaney review a litespeed gravel bike, and he showed how flexy it is compared to a CF bike. He did mention that you are robbed of power if you are putting down power. I also watched a touring the Lynskey factory, and I have to admit, I was a little disappointed. The fabrication did not look much more than made in garage level. The workers are talented I am sure they are nice high quality bikes though, and I really want to like them because they are made in USA. I am looking at the pro GR. I also just watched a video touring the Giant bikes factory in Taiwan, and it could not be further from the Lynskey factory. The infrastructure and tooling and technology used is amazing. You make it sound like CF bikes frames are a cheap easy to manufacture alternative. You could not be further from the truth. The machines and tooling probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Each bike frame mold cost like 150 grand each. The testing performed was amazing. You mention space X using stainless, and yes I am sure you found one cherry picked example where CF was not the ideal material. Tell me how many formula 1 cars, jumbo jets, fighter jets, supercars, tour de france race bikes are made from welded titanium tubes? How much technological innovation is created each year in titanium bike frames manufacturing and design? Carbon fiber design and manufacturing is evolving by the minute. If CF bike frames are so cheap and easy to make, they would be made in USA. Only frames made here are metal welded, because they are easy to make and the tooling is cheap, and there is no competition to innovate. Such a shame that we ceded CF fabrication to overseas companies. I don't mean to mean to argue, just telling you what's going through my head as I decide to get the Lynskey GR pro or Trek checkpoint SL, Giant Revolt Advanced. I do think the chance of damaging a CF frame over a long period of ownership is higher. But I don't think the performance is there. You can just do so much with CF in terms of engineering. Your video was very good, and your bike is beautiful.
@@reginaldscot165 I do think titanium could make a bike frame that performs as good as CF, but it would take the engineering innovation, and massive infrastructure and tooling similar to what CF uses. It would take hydroformed, fully 3D shaped sections that also have fully varying thickness. Metal stamping varying thickness sheet could also be used. 3D printing also offers to advantageous properties. The current fabrication technology of titanium bikes is probably close to 100 years old.
I have a Litespeed Ghisallo, claimed weight was 770 grams in medium. Is this lighter than yours?
770 for a frame? That is light! Yes definitely because mine is a size ML. 🙂
And the bottom bracket is great unlike carbon, also mine is lynskey and it’s good the gears suck ultra trash
Great 👍🏻 🙂
Lol @17:00 minutes! I guess next time I'm laying in a hospital bed after being run over by a truck I can be thankful that my titanium frame is still ok! 🙃
I do hope no such incident happened to you! And I certainly don’t think the frame would survive a truck, maybe parts of the frame, but the back triangle would probably be toast! 😅
Yeah I want one ☝️
Good choice 👍🏻
Scot as I was doing a hundred miles yesterday (161 Kilometers) I got a flat from the smallest steel sliver. I was thinking about what you said regarding the pro teams fixing their own problems on the road. If I get the much heralded Victoria Corsa pro graphene, It may be fast but would it be durable? What is the point of being fast but it won't hold up the smallest puncture-causing debris?
It’s a big question, nothing is 100% safe, even tubeless. Everything is about compromise to some extent. I think it’s possible to be light and have a good quality tyre that shrugs off most road debris but I will explain more in a video I’m working on now. 😁👍🏻
Under cost, id give titanium 0, its the same if not more expensive than carbon
I think you missed some of my examples of why it’s worth the cost. My top end titanium frame is 1 to 2 $1000 BND cheaper than a top S-Works tarmac frame for example. And I did list out why you are getting better value for money. 😁👍🏻
I wish people would get overcthis falacy that "titanium is a bike for life". I've broken three titanium frames, never crashed, all replaced under warranty before abandoning the material for carbon which I've never managed to break. Titanium degrades and breaks like ALL materials.
Your scoring system is laughable.
The young module of titanium is almost exactly the same as aluminium. Thus when having the same weight the two frames will most likely have very similar stiffness properties. However it is far more difficult to hydro-form titanium tubes compared to aluminium. Therefore the design of the frame can't be tuned as much as for titanium. When it comes to corrosion resistance aluminium and titanium are both mainly subject to galvanic corrosion only. But titanium is not a noble metal. It will corrode too. However there is one advantage to titanium over aluminium: it is less brittle than aluminium. However I personally think that it is just plain and simply not worth the money. And then there is no such a thing as a bike for life. After some time you get older (10years) and you will require a different geometry and bike setup. I have for example made well over 150k on a very plain and cheap aluminium frame for a road bike from decathlon. It wasn't pretty and the BB alignment left to wish for. However it was fitting me very well and that was the most important factor for me to stick to it. A steel frame in similar usage (long distance riding) wouldn't hold up. Sooner then later it will be eaten up by rust.
Titanium can crack, but it’s normally a problem with poor heat treatment of the welds rather than a flaw of the material. Perhaps you were unlucky, very unlucky! Because there are some very old Titanium bikes on the second hand market still in perfectly good condition. Also they do tend to have a lifetime warranty and it looks like that was respected with whoever you bought from So that’s good! 🙂
Also I bought a very expensive custom carbon bike that cracked on me in only 4 months of use! But I didn’t get a warranty refund and I never bought carbon again! 🙂
@Reginald Scot Well my point exactly, no material is perfect or perfectly constructed. Titanium is a difficult metal to work with and all manufacturers have problems with their frames. Titanium is not some wonder material that prevents that. Conversly any frame can last a lifetime if constructed annd treated well.
@@proh26 😂
First of all you are completely wrong on so , any things here that it's laughable...the simplest of which is Titanium does not corrode