I really struggle with self sacrifice vs self care. I hate injustice and pain in the world but I barely take care of my own body. Thank you tor this discussion
This was eye opening. I'd been primarily exposed to mahayana practice and find it very helpful to balance my understanding with early buddhism. I used to try and help others with disregard for my own health. Now I've taken more of a hermetic self cultivation approach. But I only presume this is the cyclic nature of coming in and out of the world -- of going up the mountain and back down.
Thank you for the recent link to this video Doug. I like the ideas around what you term the Bodhisattva Ideal. Much of it does feel more comfortable somehow! I will definitely look up more about this. 🙏
Useful video in showing that all emotions can have very negative impacts in extremes, and how to keep oneself safe in meditation and practice in the world. Appreciated as always
Thanks for illuminating me on this subject. I am from a Christian background and could not get the idea of meditation on compassion instead of doing actions like helping the poor, visiting the sick, donating money, etc. The bodhisattva ideal is exactly what J-C did, great suffering for all humanity, although is once for all eternity, not in various rebirths. It is hard to understand the concept of sacrificing oneself for the benefit of others in our modern day society. I am reading on Atisa and taking an advanced study course on Buddhism, so your lecture really helps. Thanks. For me, living in countries where people live in misery and poverty opened my eyes and got me to take action for social causes, supporting kids around the world and going to teach in needy villages. Seeing their situation first hand is what I would advise anybody to do. Some people have never gone out of North America and are so ignorant of the people's situation elsewhere. Going to those places would be my first requirement.
Great video! These comparisons are helpful to get a broader view of things. I'm an instructor, and still have empathy burnout on occasion so I can understand the difficulties with this. I tried to switch to an earlier view, focusing on positive feelings in the face of suffering in hopes it would energize me to help, and it did pretty well. The later idea of becoming a kind of HEPA filter for suffering is pretty interesting, because it isn't just about empathizing, but empathizing, feeling the suffering, then feeling that early positivity arise from that suffering. I think practicing the early, to understand the positive feeling, then moving on to transferring from empathy to positivity, could help to better understand while still avoiding bogging yourself down. If you can build a muscle memory of empathizing, understanding the pain, then moving to positivity, maybe you can also better understand a path that could help move them from suffering to positivity. Definitely feels dangerous if you focus on just the "inhaling suffering" without that skill of "exhaling joy". Step one really does seem to start by learning to be positive in the face of it, but the later tradition is something I might practice once I'm more comfortable with that.
By the way, I like when you compare early Buddhism to Mahayana the way you did in this video. I would like to see more of that in future videos. It's very interesting.
I'd just like to add that I have a slightly different take on the Bodhisattva ideal. My understanding is that a bodhisattva is already enlightened, and then makes the choice to remain in samsara, in order to aid humankind along the path. The first time I heard this, I was completely blown away... I find samsara so completely unendurable that I would give nearly anything to escape it. And yet, the enlightened being is so magnanimous that choosing to stay and help is a no-brainer. (Wow!) That does create a contradiction when taking the Bodhisattva Vow while still an unenlightened creature. I think of it as a kind of a koan: I haven't got a clue how to lead all sentient beings to enlightenment, so I'll work on myself and see what happens. Though I don't have any trouble in setting the intention to help bootstrap everyone else. Karma is about intention, after all.
Interesting thoughts, thanks Tricia. The problem with claiming that bodhisattvas must be awakened is that the idea and the word originated from what the Buddha called himself *before* he became awakened: he was a bodhisattva, which is generally understood to mean something like a being bound towards awakening. In later times bodhisattva-hood was supposed to be something we all could take on insofar as we put ourselves into Gotama’s shoes and aspired towards becoming Buddhas ourselves. If we were already awakened this wouldn’t make much sense, particularly since usually the term ‘bodhisattva’ is applied to laypeople and monastics who are pretty clearly not awakened yet. In that sense it is really something of an aspiration.
Ah, yes... I knew I was missing something. I remember listening to Joseph Goldstein refer to "The Bodhisattva" as if there was only ever one, though it was clear from the context that he meant Siddhartha Gautama. In Mahayana literature there are ZILLIONS of Bodhisattvas! :-)
Well right! 🙂 Indeed in early or Theravāda Buddhism there are also many bodhisattvas, depending on how one understands the term. If it just is taken to mean a being bound towards awakening, then everyone on the path is a bodhisattva. If however it is taken exclusively to mean a being bound towards buddhahood, then it is a term used mostly in Mahāyāna. (Although a few Theravādins also do follow a bodhisattva path like this, it is not one found in the early tradition).
Seems like that in the case of compassion, we help others without harming ourselves. Empathy carries the risk of putting ourselves down, becoming in a worse condition toward ourselves and the others. Do you agree?
Yes I think this is the danger: that by pursuing empathy we get burned out and therefore are less able to help. That said, empathy can be very useful. It's just that it involves certain drawbacks we should be aware of.
One teacher said to me , that love at it s most basic ( and highest ) pratice is merely the wish for us all to be happy . Compassion is the wish for us all to be free from suffering . Also , I wonder if the word Karuna has some linguistic connection with the word Care .
My understanding is that Gautama made a wish in a former life to become a Buddha in order to liberate others. His compassion did not arise after becoming enlightened. (08:20 ) His Jataka stories consistently illustrate his compassion. Gautama was implored by the gods to teach the dharma after enlightenment and postpone the ecstasy of Nirvana. There are 3 types of buddhas: 1) Samyak Sambuddha ; 2) Pratyek Buddha; 3) Arahant 1) Gautama Buddha was Samyak Sambuddha. A Samyak Sambuddha discovers the universal path of Dharma after striving for 4 infinity and 100,000 kappas without a guru; he himself discovers the path of liberation and then teaches it to other beings. 2) Pratyek Buddha (Silent Buddha) also has no guru + achieves the liberation by striving for 2 infinity and 100,000 kappas. However he can't teach this path to others like Samyak Sambuddha. 3) An arahant is a person who is a liberated from rebirth after hearing the dharma. They lack the karma to show others to Nirvana.
Hi sinbin365, thought I answered this one but it seems to have disappeared down the UA-cam hole. Anyhow I believe Anālayo's interpretation, and mine as well, is that the Jātaka tales arose mostly after the Buddha's lifetime. The texts we are relying on are the early ones, and the later Jātakas might well have been intended to fill in issues such as these. As for arahants, they are capable of teaching others the way to nibbāna. The only issue for them is that traditionally they do not discover the dhamma for themselves, instead they are taught by Buddhas.
While I don't completely believe in enlightenment, I definitely agree with the early texts more than I agree with the later texts. I understand concept of the later texts, but I would like to become awakened as soon as possible. I feel like I would be more helpful to society if I were awakened.
Yes, I think so too Afanasi. If one believes in rebirth then it may make sense to remain in samsara to help other beings. But if one sets rebirth to the side, it would be better simply to overcome greed and hatred.
Very interesting Doug, Did Buddha teach Compassion practice so that people would behave better towards one another or did he teach it primarily to monks to give power to their meditation?
Great question Aron, and the short answer is that I’m not sure how lovingkindness fits into the story. Lovingkindness practice is different from compassion practice since they are different emotional states, although related: compassion is directed in particular at those in distress. I think compassion practice became more important as time went on since the Buddha said he taught out of compassion rather than lovingkindness. Guanyin is the bodhisattva of compassion, after all.
I don't know how to answer your question, but you might be interested in learning more about the connection between metta and karuna as two of the four brahma viharas and how these are practiced within the Buddhist context.. Analyo has written a book which might be of interest called "Compassion and Emptiness in Early Buddhist Meditation" in which he talks about how metta and karuna intersect.
Seems to me like quite a strawman of mahayana. Bodhisattva is one who strives towards enlightenment as quickly as possible for the benefit of all sentient beings. Compassion is also the desire for beings to be free from suffering and its causes. Both of these are repeated in pre-meditation prayers by Tibetan Buddhists. Definitions and semantics matters with compassion because how it's defined in the scientific literature is different than in buddhism. There is quite a lot of research showing how compassion boosts resilience etc., but the key is in the operational definition. "Empathy has an effect on the body that is depleting. It lights up the “pain” regions of the brain, as if we were experiencing the pain ourselves. Compassion has an effect on the body that is nourishing. It lights up the “love” regions of the brain. It causes a release of oxytocin, which then causes a release of dopamine (lighting up the reward center of the brain), and serotonin (which reduces anxiety). Many front-line aid workers, first-responders, and care-givers experience what has been termed “compassion fatigue” but should more accurately be called “empathy fatigue”. The repeated witnessing of pain and distress overloads the nervous system and depletes our internal resources. Science is now showing that Compassion practice can offset the depleting effects of empathy, helping people who witness suffering remain empathetic and healthy. When we learn to use empathy to connect with others, and then learn to switch to Compassion - wishing for an end to the suffering of others - we boost our own resilience." From: facebook.com/communitymindfulnessproject/photos/a.945538792187333/2672022776205584/?type=3&theater
Agree. There was an experiment done with the French Buddhist monk in the Tibetan tradition, M Ricard, and he was instructed to develop empathy and stay in that state and later to change to compassion, and he said he experienced the changing to compassion as a great relief.
The Bodhisatva aims for Budhahood. It is necessary to be a Buddha to have the best chances to help others. The idea of remaining in samsara is just an hyperbole, a dramatic way to express how great the compassion of the Bodhisatvas can be, so that they could even do that to help sentient beings. It is not supposed to be applied in a literal way.
Thanks for that Alicia. I do think many people who follow the bodhisattva path do believe they will remain in samsara until all are awakened. That is at least one interpretation of the Bodhisattva Vows.
@@DougsDharma The Bodhisatva vow include not entering "solitary peace" or individual liberation but it means the Bodhisatvas aim to attain Budhahood, no matter how long it takes, but trying to do as fast as possible to have the best abilities, upaya, to help all kind of sentient beings. Alexander Berzin archives website explains Bodhisatva vows in detail in the Tibetan tradition. Chinese and Japanese Mahayana schools have their own set of Bodhisatva vows, although the essential meaning should be the same.
The vows I'm familiar with are from the Zen tradition. They don't include any rejection of another path, but the first one is often translated something like, "Beings are numberless, I vow to save them." Now, this can be interpreted in many ways, and each person will have their own idea of what it might mean. But one thing that people do understand by it is that we are to remain in samsara helping to bring others to awakening until all "numberless" beings are awakened.
@@DougsDharma Because the path to full Budhahood implies you need more time to complete the paramis or paramitas than the path to become an Arhat or a Solitary Buddha. The generosity or patience should be stronger, for example.
@@DougsDharma This "numberless" is an example of how it is a hyperbolic expression, very Zen-like paradoxical way of saying things, not to be understood literally.
I can't speak to your point in particular, but generally Buddhism like any system of belief and practice must adapt itself to each culture. So what we see in Buddhism worldwide is at least in large part cultural rather than specific to Buddhism.
I really struggle with self sacrifice vs self care. I hate injustice and pain in the world but I barely take care of my own body. Thank you tor this discussion
This was eye opening. I'd been primarily exposed to mahayana practice and find it very helpful to balance my understanding with early buddhism. I used to try and help others with disregard for my own health. Now I've taken more of a hermetic self cultivation approach. But I only presume this is the cyclic nature of coming in and out of the world -- of going up the mountain and back down.
Yes I think we all have to work with a "middle path" where we don't burn ourselves out.
Thank you for the recent link to this video Doug. I like the ideas around what you term the Bodhisattva Ideal. Much of it does feel more comfortable somehow! I will definitely look up more about this. 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
Useful video in showing that all emotions can have very negative impacts in extremes, and how to keep oneself safe in meditation and practice in the world. Appreciated as always
Thanks for illuminating me on this subject. I am from a Christian background and could not get the idea of meditation on compassion instead of doing actions like helping the poor, visiting the sick, donating money, etc. The bodhisattva ideal is exactly what J-C did, great suffering for all humanity, although is once for all eternity, not in various rebirths. It is hard to understand the concept of sacrificing oneself for the benefit of others in our modern day society. I am reading on Atisa and taking an advanced study course on Buddhism, so your lecture really helps. Thanks. For me, living in countries where people live in misery and poverty opened my eyes and got me to take action for social causes, supporting kids around the world and going to teach in needy villages. Seeing their situation first hand is what I would advise anybody to do. Some people have never gone out of North America and are so ignorant of the people's situation elsewhere. Going to those places would be my first requirement.
Thank you Pascale, yes there is a lot to learn about suffering. 🙏
Thank you, Doug! I think I will start with compassion practice in the early tradition as I tend to feel things deeply.
Great, yes that can be a very beneficial practice.
Great video! These comparisons are helpful to get a broader view of things. I'm an instructor, and still have empathy burnout on occasion so I can understand the difficulties with this. I tried to switch to an earlier view, focusing on positive feelings in the face of suffering in hopes it would energize me to help, and it did pretty well. The later idea of becoming a kind of HEPA filter for suffering is pretty interesting, because it isn't just about empathizing, but empathizing, feeling the suffering, then feeling that early positivity arise from that suffering. I think practicing the early, to understand the positive feeling, then moving on to transferring from empathy to positivity, could help to better understand while still avoiding bogging yourself down. If you can build a muscle memory of empathizing, understanding the pain, then moving to positivity, maybe you can also better understand a path that could help move them from suffering to positivity.
Definitely feels dangerous if you focus on just the "inhaling suffering" without that skill of "exhaling joy". Step one really does seem to start by learning to be positive in the face of it, but the later tradition is something I might practice once I'm more comfortable with that.
Yes, good points! 🙏
By the way, I like when you compare early Buddhism to Mahayana the way you did in this video. I would like to see more of that in future videos. It's very interesting.
Thanks Afanasi, indeed I will have more of a discussion of the differences and historical developments coming up in the next few months. 🙂
I'd just like to add that I have a slightly different take on the Bodhisattva ideal. My understanding is that a bodhisattva is already enlightened, and then makes the choice to remain in samsara, in order to aid humankind along the path. The first time I heard this, I was completely blown away... I find samsara so completely unendurable that I would give nearly anything to escape it. And yet, the enlightened being is so magnanimous that choosing to stay and help is a no-brainer. (Wow!)
That does create a contradiction when taking the Bodhisattva Vow while still an unenlightened creature. I think of it as a kind of a koan: I haven't got a clue how to lead all sentient beings to enlightenment, so I'll work on myself and see what happens. Though I don't have any trouble in setting the intention to help bootstrap everyone else. Karma is about intention, after all.
Interesting thoughts, thanks Tricia. The problem with claiming that bodhisattvas must be awakened is that the idea and the word originated from what the Buddha called himself *before* he became awakened: he was a bodhisattva, which is generally understood to mean something like a being bound towards awakening. In later times bodhisattva-hood was supposed to be something we all could take on insofar as we put ourselves into Gotama’s shoes and aspired towards becoming Buddhas ourselves. If we were already awakened this wouldn’t make much sense, particularly since usually the term ‘bodhisattva’ is applied to laypeople and monastics who are pretty clearly not awakened yet. In that sense it is really something of an aspiration.
Ah, yes... I knew I was missing something. I remember listening to Joseph Goldstein refer to "The Bodhisattva" as if there was only ever one, though it was clear from the context that he meant Siddhartha Gautama. In Mahayana literature there are ZILLIONS of Bodhisattvas! :-)
Well right! 🙂 Indeed in early or Theravāda Buddhism there are also many bodhisattvas, depending on how one understands the term. If it just is taken to mean a being bound towards awakening, then everyone on the path is a bodhisattva. If however it is taken exclusively to mean a being bound towards buddhahood, then it is a term used mostly in Mahāyāna. (Although a few Theravādins also do follow a bodhisattva path like this, it is not one found in the early tradition).
Seems like that in the case of compassion, we help others without harming ourselves. Empathy carries the risk of putting ourselves down, becoming in a worse condition toward ourselves and the others.
Do you agree?
Yes I think this is the danger: that by pursuing empathy we get burned out and therefore are less able to help. That said, empathy can be very useful. It's just that it involves certain drawbacks we should be aware of.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. Lead by example. Lead from the front, not the back.
thats compassion and empathy
Wonderful video! Profound and informative as always. I've never heard of the Tonglen practice before. Makes some sense to me. Gonna try it... 😁🙏🏻
Thanks for the comment xiao mao, I hope you find the practice useful!
@@DougsDharma
Thanks, so far it feels a bit artificial/contrived, but let's see how things will evolve... 😁
I'm seeking the wisdom of compassion
🙏
One teacher said to me , that love at it s most basic ( and highest ) pratice is merely the wish for us all to be happy . Compassion is the wish for us all to be free from suffering . Also , I wonder if the word Karuna has some linguistic connection with the word Care .
Good question, Aidan! And I think your teacher was right. 🙏
My understanding is that Gautama made a wish in a former life to become a Buddha in order to liberate others. His compassion did not arise after becoming enlightened. (08:20 ) His Jataka stories consistently illustrate his compassion. Gautama was implored by the gods to teach the dharma after enlightenment and postpone the ecstasy of Nirvana.
There are 3 types of buddhas:
1) Samyak Sambuddha
; 2) Pratyek Buddha; 3) Arahant
1) Gautama Buddha was Samyak Sambuddha. A Samyak Sambuddha discovers the universal path of Dharma after striving for 4 infinity and 100,000 kappas without a guru; he himself discovers the path of liberation and then teaches it to other beings.
2) Pratyek Buddha (Silent Buddha) also has no guru + achieves the liberation by striving for 2 infinity and 100,000 kappas. However he can't teach this path to others like Samyak Sambuddha.
3) An arahant is a person who is a liberated from rebirth after hearing the dharma. They lack the karma to show others to Nirvana.
Hi sinbin365, thought I answered this one but it seems to have disappeared down the UA-cam hole. Anyhow I believe Anālayo's interpretation, and mine as well, is that the Jātaka tales arose mostly after the Buddha's lifetime. The texts we are relying on are the early ones, and the later Jātakas might well have been intended to fill in issues such as these. As for arahants, they are capable of teaching others the way to nibbāna. The only issue for them is that traditionally they do not discover the dhamma for themselves, instead they are taught by Buddhas.
While I don't completely believe in enlightenment, I definitely agree with the early texts more than I agree with the later texts. I understand concept of the later texts, but I would like to become awakened as soon as possible. I feel like I would be more helpful to society if I were awakened.
Yes, I think so too Afanasi. If one believes in rebirth then it may make sense to remain in samsara to help other beings. But if one sets rebirth to the side, it would be better simply to overcome greed and hatred.
Very interesting Doug, Did Buddha teach Compassion practice so that people would behave better towards one another or did he teach it primarily to monks to give power to their meditation?
Wow, not sure how to answer that question, John. I'd say, "both"!
Doug, where does loving-kindness meditation fit into this history? Is it different than compassion practice?
Great question Aron, and the short answer is that I’m not sure how lovingkindness fits into the story. Lovingkindness practice is different from compassion practice since they are different emotional states, although related: compassion is directed in particular at those in distress. I think compassion practice became more important as time went on since the Buddha said he taught out of compassion rather than lovingkindness. Guanyin is the bodhisattva of compassion, after all.
I'm reminded of the Karaniya Metta Sutta.
Right, the Metta Sutta is directed towards all without exception, not only towards those in distress.
I don't know how to answer your question, but you might be interested in learning more about the connection between metta and karuna as two of the four brahma viharas and how these are practiced within the Buddhist context.. Analyo has written a book which might be of interest called "Compassion and Emptiness in Early Buddhist Meditation" in which he talks about how metta and karuna intersect.
Seems to me like quite a strawman of mahayana.
Bodhisattva is one who strives towards enlightenment as quickly as possible for the benefit of all sentient beings.
Compassion is also the desire for beings to be free from suffering and its causes.
Both of these are repeated in pre-meditation prayers by Tibetan Buddhists.
Definitions and semantics matters with compassion because how it's defined in the scientific literature is different than in buddhism. There is quite a lot of research showing how compassion boosts resilience etc., but the key is in the operational definition.
"Empathy has an effect on the body that is depleting. It lights up the “pain” regions of the brain, as if we were experiencing the pain ourselves.
Compassion has an effect on the body that is nourishing. It lights up the “love” regions of the brain. It causes a release of oxytocin, which then causes a release of dopamine (lighting up the reward center of the brain), and serotonin (which reduces anxiety).
Many front-line aid workers, first-responders, and care-givers experience what has been termed “compassion fatigue” but should more accurately be called “empathy fatigue”. The repeated witnessing of pain and distress overloads the nervous system and depletes our internal resources. Science is now showing that Compassion practice can offset the depleting effects of empathy, helping people who witness suffering remain empathetic and healthy.
When we learn to use empathy to connect with others, and then learn to switch to Compassion - wishing for an end to the suffering of others - we boost our own resilience."
From: facebook.com/communitymindfulnessproject/photos/a.945538792187333/2672022776205584/?type=3&theater
Thanks for that David. 🙏
Agree. There was an experiment done with the French Buddhist monk in the Tibetan tradition, M Ricard, and he was instructed to develop empathy and stay in that state and later to change to compassion, and he said he experienced the changing to compassion as a great relief.
IM SCHIZPHRENIC ENOUGH FOR ME`, BUT I STILL CARE OF PEOPLE MORE THAT HEALTHY ONES..
i want to be a bodishtava for 300 lives
The Bodhisatva aims for Budhahood. It is necessary to be a Buddha to have the best chances to help others. The idea of remaining in samsara is just an hyperbole, a dramatic way to express how great the compassion of the Bodhisatvas can be, so that they could even do that to help sentient beings. It is not supposed to be applied in a literal way.
Thanks for that Alicia. I do think many people who follow the bodhisattva path do believe they will remain in samsara until all are awakened. That is at least one interpretation of the Bodhisattva Vows.
@@DougsDharma The Bodhisatva vow include not entering "solitary peace" or individual liberation but it means the Bodhisatvas aim to attain Budhahood, no matter how long it takes, but trying to do as fast as possible to have the best abilities, upaya, to help all kind of sentient beings. Alexander Berzin archives website explains Bodhisatva vows in detail in the Tibetan tradition. Chinese and Japanese Mahayana schools have their own set of Bodhisatva vows, although the essential meaning should be the same.
The vows I'm familiar with are from the Zen tradition. They don't include any rejection of another path, but the first one is often translated something like, "Beings are numberless, I vow to save them." Now, this can be interpreted in many ways, and each person will have their own idea of what it might mean. But one thing that people do understand by it is that we are to remain in samsara helping to bring others to awakening until all "numberless" beings are awakened.
@@DougsDharma Because the path to full Budhahood implies you need more time to complete the paramis or paramitas than the path to become an Arhat or a Solitary Buddha. The generosity or patience should be stronger, for example.
@@DougsDharma This "numberless" is an example of how it is a hyperbolic expression, very Zen-like paradoxical way of saying things, not to be understood literally.
So what I'm wondering is if Buddhism is compassion and wisdom why is Thailand which is primarily Buddhist so cruel to animals
I can't speak to your point in particular, but generally Buddhism like any system of belief and practice must adapt itself to each culture. So what we see in Buddhism worldwide is at least in large part cultural rather than specific to Buddhism.