The History of MOBAs.
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2024
- Special thanks to NoToneTyrone for letting me use his amazing rendition of the Outer Wilds music! Please go and check out their work!!
@NoToneTyrone
/ @notonetyrone
Thanks also to Conta & Joga for allowing the use of their Aeon Of Strife gameplay. They have the best version on the web!
@ContaJoga
/ @contajoga
Ever wonder about the full history of MOBAs? Or, at least of Dota 2 and League Of Legends? You already probably know about Aeon Of Strife, but who was Guinsoo, and what does Pokemon have to do with it?
Put on a good pair of headphones or plug in some nice speakers, and watch and listen to this audio-visual story, full of mystery and magic.
We have a long history together...
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/tzar_potato
Discord: discord.gg/sxMHGSm - Ігри
"We were born for cooperation, not competition" -stoic wisdom. Holy shit, that was the most wholesome thing ive watched in a long time, and the outer wilds soundtrack almost made cry not gonna lie, since i cried when i finished that game. But wow, as a person who played both games for years and is fed up with both comunities toxic behavior, it really warms the heart to see that people like you do exist, thank you for work, and may you achieve all your dreams friend!
Thank you so much for the kind words!
lmao this is like watching how the universe started from the big bang
GREAT!
Dota's "New frontiers" was the best update. This update helped a lot of dota content creators make videos about it and dota players started coming back to play dota again.
Miracle was the real reason people playing DOTA2
@@dendiRTZ-xg5wb No, it was Dendi first.
Thank you for the mention and high praise, will watch the video for sure!
Oh you're gonna love it! I used your music as if it was written for this video specifically!!
@@TZAR_POTATO oh I love it, amazing!
This is a hidden gem channel
Share my videos so it doesn't stay hidden
So glad for this video, setting the record straight with autobattlers, giving Pokemon Defense the credit it deserves.
...what record?
@@TZAR_POTATO
"Setting the record straight" is an idiom for "providing facts about something that people have a false understanding or idea about". Which what your video did to a great degree.
@@alrycaaeveahexendias1236 cool! Though, I meant to ask, what was the misconception?
@@TZAR_POTATOI think he meant people didn't knew Pokémon Defense started the auto-battlers.
Btw amazing vídeo man! It really is thought-provoquing!
I bet almost nobody remembers that game ... but I NEVER forgot it!! @@KitsuneFaroe
It always amazes me how the best game ideas have come from people working for free out of passion.
2:35 man, that made me remember playing dota and getting very excited when hearing new version that have new things.
"Hey, lets play dota."
"Alright...wait whats that loading screen? Thats different from what i play!"
"Its new version."
"OHH whats new, heroes? Items? I need to get that asap!"
Pokemon Defense!!!! Finally someone validates me in saying TFT and the autobattler genre stems from this game... Like I'm actually crying.
Isn't that OBVIOUS though?!?! Like... of COURSE it comes from pokemon defense!
@@TZAR_POTATO I dunno. A lot of my friends who still play League never played Warcraft 3 so they don't believe me. It's just like when I told them Eternal Return reminds me of Fate/Another Arena. This video really brought back good memories. It also brought back a memory of a MoBA called Bloodline Champions I think, the gimmick was everything was a skill shot. Like autos, abilities etc. so like a level 1 character could beat a level 6 if you were good at microing.
TIL about this game as I never played it (I was more onto ORPGs) but hey, the more you know !
2:40 holy fuck that picture contains so much memory
11:38 the moment i saw this shot it instantly clicked... i had no idea about this one
so many crazy memories with this game and 13 years ago i met my best friend in dota
"سرو شده"
thank you for this incredible trip down the memory lane
like the musical cue??
yeah they were so fitting man great job on this@@TZAR_POTATO
you forgot Neichus
Pendragon never forgive, never forget
But why? It was over a decade ago, and in video game terms that's a long time!
@@TZAR_POTATO Because i was there
You knew Pendragon? @@dargorwarrior
Fuck pendragon
This video needs to go viral
Help out if you wish!
i used to love both games ( and genre ) with a burning passion that faded with time, even wanted to try making a tiny version of my own but gave up, but this video was so wholesome and beautiful it made me shed tears and rekindled my love for both and the genre ( saying i love league again was not something i was expecting), i watch all ur videos i am glad u make content, thank you for firing up my passion again!
Thank you for being a fan!
Awesome to know about their origins, those Icefrog "leak" maps were something crazy so thanks for the memories (Weren't mentioned but my head did due to this trip)
And hey, haven't considered till now, but loving Techies might be one of the reasons why Ziggs is my main nowadays... guess all I want is to have a blast
May your coffee is always warm and your pillow comfy
One of the greatest story telling video I have ever watched. This video need to go viral for sure.
I thank you for the kind words!
This is a beautiful video history of MOBA games... I wish I have nostalgic memories of these, but I was kinda born late. Tho I still have great memories playing Dota 2 and will appreciate the first people that created the inspirations of these games.
really enjoy these videos about Dota and LoL
Finally, a video that highlights the best these games represent. Loved playing for had to go to league because my friends played it. Went back to dota and the again back to league. These games are part of my life and many friendships were made along the path. Amazing games.
I compare them to chess and checkers both games take lots of skill one might have more intricate ways to play it but neither takes less or more skill. Guys respect the player respect the game we all love the same thing❤
I play both Dota and League of Legends, and I've tried Dota Auto Chess and Teamfight Tactics (TFT). I love the universes of both games! Watching the video brought back memories and took me on a roller coaster ride of emotions. Thank you for creating such a nostalgic experience.
Thank you for enjoying it
Hello, im dota 2 Chen player (1000 matches around 55-58% winrate) since start of dota 2 and half year playing dota 1. Half year ago my friend showed me league and that it dosent have stereotypes that all haters talked about League. I think this game really fun and ii found unique mechanics in league what i dont have in dota 2. In my opinion if Riot and Valve gonna watch on every aspect and positive improvements that both games have and gonna add to games, this will be best games ever. Hope that this games gonna evolve and we gonna see big changes in games like when grapghics were evolve in League or Map was remade in DOta 2. Both games really good for skill micro improvement, for me as Chen player i livo dota micro group multitasking and league different aspects of skillshot combinations.Anyway i think this games not gonna die they gonna evolve or take new path for LoL 2 and Dota 3.
Combining both games are really good to evovle you to a level of smart player.
Thank you for videos Potato and making comunity better for both games.
Gonna learn very hard champions, stay hard!
damn u did add a great sound track , !!
That was a great videos with harmoic music, i didnt know there have a more different moba games genre but them failed and unsuccessful like Dota 2 & League Of Legends
I can still recall a certain dev who deleted most if not all dota files and shamelessly promoted LOL in a certain dota tournament
nice vid!
i always wondered if they make a collab dota vs lol kind of thing or any other moba.. that would be epic :)
really nostalgic.. i also remember the bleach vs one piece map at that time, it was fun.. along with many other custom maps..
i havent played dota or lol for a long while now, would be nice if they really make a collaboration..
only play pokemon unite nowadays XD
As a fan of MOBA game thank you for creating this vid my guy!!
As a fan of MOBA, thank YOU for watching my video!!
Remember that Pokemon has its own MOBA called Pokemon Unite. If they ever add an auto-chess mode but using the mechanics of the original version to make it its own, then what an event it will be.
Damn bro,your vidio makes me cryy😢😢😢 thanks for making this vidio
Tha k you for watching it!
Great Content. All goods.
Daaaang, I didn't know about the auto-chess origins, so cool! And didn't know about Pendragon's backstab either. Just read further about it, pretty awful.
This was awesome!
Thanks for the praise! Yeah, it's a cool history :)
Great video!
TY!
The outer wilds music 🔥🔥
yep!
I hope this includes all the fucked up bs riot was doing against the dota community back in the day, can't wait!
Only a small mention. I didn't want to have a negative focus for the video, but more of a focus of fraternity.
@@TZAR_POTATO b-but it's the hatred what keeps me alive!
@@Alowey1K ...bruh
Fuck Pendragon
true. there was already sparks in the community. nonetheless, everyone just kept silent and enjoyed both games.
but riot? oh man. riot bought a fuel tank, poured it then ignited a blazing flame.
till this day the flame burns and it sucks.
I enjoy league and dota. when I get tired of one, I try the other. but riot? oh man.. watching worlds is fun y as heck.
penalizing pro players for some BS.
but true tho, they still hold more active player count.
won't deny that.
WC3 i finish the story mode it is good and nostalgic
vainglory mentioned ❤
I think you forgot one detail at the start. That WC3 had a built-in DOTA mission, in the Campaign! I think at least, it has been so long.
It had a Tug Of War mission. No jungle, and only one lane. The objective was to collect Illadin's cage.
Unless you're talking about the final mission of the RPG campaign, but that had no enemy heroes to push against.
yup I feel Blaze Of Glory is more like an AoS inspired while Search for Illidan is DotA inspired
then there's Brothers in Arms in Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void, and then the Warfronts in World of Warcraft Battle for Azeroth@@TZAR_POTATO
I'm gonna says some words without context just to people who know understand: GUI, MUI, JASS, meory leaks, If Then Else, Triggers, Dummy Unit, Epic War, Terra of Gods Evolution...
Custom Script saves a lot of ram in computer with 512 ram hahahah
Not mentioning hiveworkshop with a endless content of models, spells, skins, icons, code, pack, sounds and tools free to add.
League's Arcane was released Nov 6, 2021 not 2022. And it took 6 years to finally release it so Arcane was starting to be made by around 2015. And looking at Dota's dragon's blood, it should only take 2 years maximum to be able to make it. Maybe when Riot announced/teased their animated series in 2019 i think thats the time dota started to make its own anime
Dam the didn't know how similar the heros and abilities were wtf...
I have videos highlighting that even more!
Smite 2 coming soon
Can you do Schmaragon? it could be the dota to predecessors league
I don't think that eul added the three lanes,
There were other DOTA games before, with three lane and you could upgrade the creeps.
But he did make DOTA Allstars, The allstars version is the one that catch.
Wrong on both. First off, he had nothing to do with dota allstars. Second, his is the FIRST dota map. Before that, it was Aeon Of Strife, which was 2-3-4 lanes depending on port. I did a lot of research for this video.
then there's Mobile Legends, the protestant to League (still traditional but adapted modern standards) and Dota (Orthodox, retained most traditions).
noice
Wait is that what guinsoo's rageblade got its name from or is it a coincidence?
Yes
Dino Nuggies
Hmm .. I don't see Future Cop : LAPD. I feel sad. :')
I kinda want to play HoN now. From what I know it had heroes of both lands so it would suits for both Dota and League players. Unfortunately, servers are no more...
sadness
I started Dota in War3 frozen throne, I have thousands and thousands of games of dota 1 + 2 and around 1000 on LoL. I played around 4000 games of HoN, and imho, it was the best moba ever created. Too bad it never reach a bigger audience and died in the end.
Project Kongor supports HoN , google it
Hi Tzar! I recently started playing Dota, I switched from League and wanted to make a video request. As you probably know, illusions in League (Neeko W, Wukong W, Shaco R) are not that problematic, you can either wait them out or act dependingly on the champion (Wukong is very predictable, Shaco is 50/50 unless you mark him somehow beforehand), it all boils down to the point that you don't have to itemise agaisnt them and it's all micro really. In Dota however, I have no idea what to do when 5 Naga Sirens or 7 Phantom Lancers attack me. I don't know how to itemise, how to spot the real ones etc. So I wanted to ask, would you make a video for us League players who have no idea how to deal with illusions?
That just sounds like a lack of item knowledge and not so much a comparison video. Don't know how I can make a video like that but I could just teach you some options. For tanks, shiva's guard and radiance. For adc, mjollnir or battlefury. For supports, any defensive item can work. Ghost scepter, force staff, glimmer cape
or you can just counterpick them and pick like lion,dazzle for those annoying illus
@@yy-ds does earthshaker work too? I feel like his R kinda counters illusions but I may be wrong
Yup, totally works, but it's inconsistent. One ultimate with a long cooldown vs abilities with short cooldowns. It's only good as an illusion counter in team fights. @@firek4306
Also keep in mind that 99% of illusions take a lot more damage than real heroes
1:49 so thats where the name "eul's scepter of divnity" come huh?
YUP!
hmm I wonder if those Warcraft 3 ORPGs like Sunken City, Twilight's Eve, The Kingdom of Kaliron, Gaias' Retaliation, etc. would get their influences (further) spilled over to DotA 2 (RIP Reincarnation RPG) and Valve approves of incorporating a more chill/casual game mode where you go on a PVE dungeon crawl with heroes with challenging boss raids; would Riot also copy it?
Shout out to battle tanks! The best wc3 moba
League and Dota aren't the only ones copying from one another. Supercell has an auto battler entry AND a top-down hero-based objective-oriented team battle game. I'm sure there are others.
I think sometimes we forget that game devs are usually gamers, too, and inspiration can come from the most unlikely places.
It would be nice if you could explain one more thing... the THIRD brother of MOBA, or the OTHER family: MOBILE MOBA.
So it began after Riot got acquired with Tencent. And they were like "Hey, Riot. Mobile is a hot new stuff and Vainglory is a pretty good game. Wanna go make LOL Mobile?"
And Riot was like, "Nah, bro. LOL too complicated for mobile!"
And Tencent was like, "Says the devs who said DOTA was too complicated! Fine! TiMi, c'mere and make me a mobile LOL-like game!"
And so Tencent and TiMi worked to create Honor of Kings, based on Chinese mythology AND history. With mobile being welcomed in China instead of being considered a spawn of Satan only consisting of gambling tools like gachas and microtransactions, Honor of Kings took mainland China by STORM.
They were considering to port it to outside China, but then they realized... "Wait a minute! Our HOK design is too overly Chinese, you think outside world would accept? Let's make an alternate, internationalized version and test the waters first." It's also around the time they acquired the assets of S2 Games, which means Heroes of Newerth assets.
And so, Arena of Valor was born, and released to the outside world. With their heroes taking their movesets based on Honor of Kings heroes, and some original ones. Their goal as brothers: Take over the mobile MOBA arena, defeating its current champion: Vainglory.
But wait, around the time, there's already a competition that's slowly taking a lot of Vainglory's attention. It's from a 'small indie company' named Shanghai Moonton. Their game: Mobile Legends (they'll add the 'Bang Bang' addendum later), a game dedicated to run even at the most potato phone you ever had. That game was SO full of shameless copycats that made League of Legends wince like when they copied Dota. Tons of accusations were thrown, but Moonton has tenacity. They continued to fine-tune their game in a slow and steady manner, but it was at that time that they discovered a gold mine before Tencent realized...
Southeast Asia.
You see, unlike the English-speaking region of the West, Southeast Asia is much more receptive to mobile, and the people's economy there... aren't that high. They appreciate free and engaging games, don't really care about moral arguments like 'copycat bad'. So, Moonton appeals to Southeast Asian countries, like Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, etc. And it became their greatest success, as with more attention to Southeast Asia, they get enough revenue and popularity to continue to fine-tune Mobile Legends, becoming one of the cornerstones of mobile MOBA.
Tencent doesn't want to stay that way. Arena of Valor was sent to intercept Mobile Legends, and it's battling quite a fierce battle. Thailand and Vietnam became Arena of Valor's greatest stronghold in Southeast Asia, with Indonesia a contested place as it's basically Mobile Legends' greatest stronghold. But then, looking at all these battles, Riot then got on their knees and... "We're sorry, Tencent! We were wrong! Mobile MOBA is viable! Can we please please please make a LOL mobile???"
And Tencent nodded. Arena of Valor's hold in Southeast Asia weakened, but they still held great in Thai and Viet. And so, Riot unleashed League of Legends: Wild Rift, and together with Arena of Valor, they fought together to compete with Mobile Legends for mobile MOBA dominance.
Well, at least in the meantime, Vainglory ended up blowing up and their remnants getting stomped during the clash between Tencent and Moonton. But Tencent decided perhaps it's time to take this to another level. They look back to Honor of Kings and decided that the time has come. Arena of Valor has familiarized the international world with their gameplay mechanics, and it's time to unleash Honor of Kings to the world after they practically became indomitable in China.. and no, rather than killing Arena of Valor right away, they decided that they will fight together as brothers.
Even without any betrayal incidents like Pendragon, the clash between the juggernaut Tencent and the underdog Moonton continues to shape the scene of mobile MOBA all while League and Dota (with occasional Smite interference) grow together in the PC MOBA.
Oh by the way, Valve was also asked to create a Mobile Dota. What's the answer of Gabe? "All right, go make us how to control Meepo in mobile. We'll wait."
Nobody dared to take the challenge. There's an attempt to emulate Dota into mobile named Auto Chess MOBA. That died in a year.
And in the meantime, following the struggle between HOK, AOV against ML, we get many many mobile MOBA like Marvel Super War, Heroes Evolved, Onmyoji Arena, Legend of Ace, and even one involving Shonen Jump: Jump Assemble. Some of them will eventually fall and die, just like the struggle in the PC region...
Mobile MOBA struggles is a class of its own.
It sounds like you already know what's going on, and I don't need to explain it. Thanks for that!
Is battleships crossfire a MOBA?
YUP! lanes with creeps that push, heroes that get levels and items, it qualifies 100%
Oh fuck when you mentioned the pokemon auto battle and ship moba, all the WC3 mods memories are coming in, including the anime mods one (I'm a old weeb, and also character pushing the game limit is so funny)
I played so many hours of Footman Frenzy, Hero Line Wars, Line Tower Wars, and Slide Ninja Slide!!
a 5:40 a biggest RITO lie they ever deploy..
where neichus?
Praise guinsoo, and icefrog may you be coated by the grace of God or 3 lanes, idk I lost what I was saying gotta go i have to get to diamond tonight
Classic!
Might be a nitpick, but the term "moba" actually came out very late in the whole history of the genre.
Riot literally coined the term in LoL's early days because everyone was basically calling the genre "dota-like games" up until around 2012-2013. (That, and along with their other attempts at sabotaging dota2 in its early days.)
The video is meant to cover the history of the genre, and not of the term. Sorry for the confusion.
I believe dota 2 preferred to use Action RTS or ARTS due to the small remaining semblances of the RTS such as being able to control more than your hero (courier, summons, etc.) which you can't do in league as it's just locked on your hero
Aeon of strife is rather an rpg game that inspired the true first foundation of moba concept than "the first moba ever"
Idk guys, it's just my personal opinion.
i have some question about league of legend items
question. Why there are NO MAGE mana regen items? only mana items
are hey afraid to put mana regen for mages?
adr have an item to refund mana well adc can use the same item if they want....
There is one mana regen item for mages, but that's mostly it. There used to be more but then the game loop started being so focused on recalling to buy items that mana is not really an issue after the first 5 minutes for a lot of champions.
There are a couple, plus you can get runes (like talents in WoW) that help you with that. But yeah after the first 15 minutes you start to have a big mana pool and the recalls to base are free so they are frequent
@@FR4NKYEtheIVyeah i know that.. but still adc item have a way to gain mana mid battle so why mages dont have one?
IF the adc item ( the use skill and hit) have some scaling on ap I WILL buy it no matter how scuff it is and my teammates say.
@@arczuha9209 mages have an item for constant mana gain called Seraph's Embrace, builts from tear of the goddess which is mini Seraph's starter item
Archangel's Staff is the unupgraded version (before hitting 360 stacks)
one thing i like about LoL is that they give players a lot of free rewards where in Dota it's very rare and most of the time u have to grind :(
I have over a thousand free skins in dota from playing, though i have been playing for a while.
@@TZAR_POTATO yes but u mostly get 1 good item per year , like last year candyworks was the jackpot
@@TZAR_POTATO would love to see more Dota vs LoL comparison videos i really enjoy them
@@whitedarkness97 I will keep them coming.
@@whitedarkness97 I win a Legion Arcana from random loot in end of game, not from event or chest.
Based
AFAIK back in the day, people were supportive of League of Legends, until the Allstars forums was taken down by Pendragon and destroyed.
Basically
@@TZAR_POTATO It's crazy how basically every LoL player and Dota 2 player know they hate each other but don't really know the reason. It's like a microcosm of generational hate being a learned behavior. Also, I love your videos btw, have a feww friends we're trying to intro to Dota 2 from League and your videos are extremely helpful.
@@ReplayableContentI'll coach you guys if you want to come to the discord!
@@TZAR_POTATO That owuld be so fun for them, especially since I'm terrible at coaching them because I know nothing about League to help them come over. I joined!
1.8k views then 200+ likes? C'mon guys we need to fix this!
Similar but different in many ways yes, I am a dota player myself but I still hope league fails even if having only one moba left might destroy dota since there would be no competition I’d still take it if it meant we would be the one who stood last. Unfortunately neither game is dying and league makes a good show just a bad game so I’ll just have to keep fighting the unifiers like yourself. But the video is very well made.
9:04 why not use dummies on dota as well?
Because dummies can't move, and it looks better with heroes.
Nah. I'd win
Btw in 2002 i was made moded map witzh JUNGLE... and share on avalon websites.. but not as benephicial aspect but as obstacle for all who are gone from fight on line and try pass by.. wood,, it originaly make them slow.. or k#led on that jungle by random pocket of creeps what he can enter.. not give em for any advantage.. but to give time a oposit laner.. understand he is not play fair and he choping down a tree.. in order to.. invade, pass trought etc.. concept of jungle in that time.. for me was only a obstacle.. goof frogyfrog make this obstacle a demanded, and depended change.. what i kinda dont like. it may be a 3V3 not 5V5.. specialy botom 2 players?? nah.. i dont like whar RIOT did to that mod.. V0,4b they steal part of my job.. they steal a whole idead.. and in the end.. they get that 3V3 and rotate it for 90deg.. and mke tresome walley.. i never get known, noticed, or just mentioned.. in any of this company each-other roberys.. eve trought i have much more to offer at that time's.. specialy with frozen trone dlc builder features.. it is sad and shame.. and in the same time.,. i am glad.. a milions of ppl play it.. and every time i return on each rift.. i feel proud..
You needed a narrator dude. There's no way I'm reading your 16 minute powerpoint presentation
Then this video is not for you. Thanks for coming though!
@@TZAR_POTATOhe has a point dude
@@corniel657 He doesn't really have a point. The video was fine and I watched from start to finish as I'm sure many others did.
A voiceover would ruin the feel of the video. Just because zoomers need to have 5 tabs and a game open and treat videos like audiobooks doesn't mean all videos need to appeal to you.
@@corniel657 Even you could say he has a POWER point :D
Zoomer moment
the word is Esports not E-sports nethier eSports
I'm a boomer, back in my day ...
The word is neither not nethier
Probably just a typo. @@yuseifudo5830
Honestly, Dota players are the only ones still shitting on League while League players couldn't care less about Dota. Like when you ask a Dota player about League they instantly throw out the insults, when you ask a League player about Dota they usually have positive things to say like "its good but too difficult/time consuming".
Both sides have bad apples, while I believe it is an expirience you had, I have seen opposite, there is a lot of toxicly defensive players on both sides.
And should we gripe over who is at fault, all will stay the same, returning back to how it all started. I would rather to see both audiences enjoy their games and them evolve in this competition.
a lot of resentment, and I like that, hate keeps us focused, buahahahaha😈😈😈😈😈😈, na I don't really care, I just like the beff😈😈
I played league from season 1. I still remember league players(including me) were shitting on dota because it's old now, dead game etc.
I think dota players wouldn't care about league if it wasn't for pendragon sabotaging dota, selling dota rights to riot games with guinsoo and stealing ideas on his way out.
@@Radiskull obligatory f*ck pendragon comment
edit: Seriously though, pendragon could have done better in trying to herd dota players to league instead of taking down the forums and replacing it with an ad. He just had to be a douche about it. As for stealing character ideas I guarantee people would let riot have them if they just asked, there was no need to nuke the entire hero concepts section and keep it hidden to this day.
name matches comment
you shouve put in narrioteionn, instead of just silence... couldæve been a super good movie, but it was just...yeah...mediorcre crap...
Thank you for watching! Though I narrate most of my videos, this was meant to be a musical experience. Sorry that you didn't like it as much as others did, but maybe you would like my other, narrated videos instead.
yes indeed
Cringe
Thanks for watching my video!
WC3 i finish the story mode it is good and nostalgic