Kojima is one crazy dude... in the best way possible. The things he's responsible for me thinking about is something else. What a guy. I hope this world makes more like him. I really wish I could thank him.
These breakdowns of MGS you've made are by far the best on UA-cam. You come off as educated not because of big words any forced narration, but because you genuinely know how to analyze a story and how to convey it. I wish you'd done the other games, or even uploaded anymore :/ If you ever do upload again, I expect a "kept you waiting" joke somewhere in there
I really miss deep involving storylines like this mgs was so thought provoking I always wished if Hideo Kojima and Hideaki Anno ( Evangelion) both worked together on something one day wherever it be a film or game it'd be one complete mindfuck! they are the masters of character driven narrative heavy stories
How about Hideo Kojima and Yoko Taro (creator of NieR Automata) made a game together. That'll be the most thought-provoking, philosophy-filled game ever.
+s0nnyburnett In the game, Raiden and Rose reference the in-game date being April 29th near the start of the Big Shell mission, and then April 30th at the end, the anniversary of them first meeting in New York. Solidus also talks about how the date is important to the Patriots (and him) because George Washington was inaugurated at Federal Hall (the location the games ends at), on April 30th 1789 which Solidus describes as the moment Freedom could have been born.
I am legitimately so excited for all these videos, thanks man! MGS2 has always been my favourite and while I know people have their reasons for disliking it from a variety of standpoints, I think it's one of the most brilliantly written and constructed stories ever featured in a video game and touches on some topics I think still tend to get ignored. I know it's kind of a joke at this point, but the idea of memes and how it also carries into Rising fascinates me a ton and I think it's integral to understanding Raiden's character and evolution. Such a good character, in my eyes, that gets overlooked because he starts off flawed and whiny, although I think that just gave them more room to work with vs. characters like Big Boss and Snake who definitely developd and were fascinating in their own right, but didn't have the opportunity to grow dramatically as Raiden did.
It's nice to see you've decided to take on another project. I still distinctly remember watching your videos a couple of years ago and finding them both deeply interesting and entertaining. This one's no different. Excited for the upcoming part(s)!
This is more than just a "game". It's a learning experience! Also both METAL GEAR SOLID 2 and EVANGELION are interesting works. I am a huge fan of both works and I love analysis videos on either work. These two have so much in common with one another so I'll list off a few similarities: 1) The Patriots are a group of 12 men operating a shadowy organization that control the world as are Seele. 2) Snake, Liquid and Solidus are clones of Big Boss. Rei Ayanmai is a clone of Yui. The Eva are clones of Adam and Lilith. 3) Both Evangelion and MGS2 were about deconstructing the genre they are classified in. (Action hero movies and Giant Robot genres) 4) Both have prominent use of the brainy tragic scientist types who are either deceived (Otacon, Ritsuko Akagi) or have ulterior motives (Gendo Ikari, Naomi Hunter) 5) The Eva are biped and humanoid in appearance as well as later Metal Gear models. 6) The ending of MGS 2 and The End of Evangelion were notorious for being the biggest mind screws. So much so that there was a fan backlash against both works. 7) Both series have a strong military presence in them. Eva has the Jssdf and the U.N. while in MGS2 there are U.S. marines, navy and seal teams along with Russian mercenaries. 8) Kaji plays the role of spy fooling many of his counterparts. Ocelot and Olga do the same. 9) Shinji hates Gendo, Snake and Liquid hate Big Boss showing a lack of familial bonding in father-son relationships. 10) Both series have AWESOME soundtracks 11) Both have similar tones, that is they both lean towards the cynical and hopeless side of human nature. The atmosphere is foreboding, tense, uneasy, and downright unsettling at times. 12) Raiden is named after a WW2 Japanese naval fighter. Most of the characters in Eva are also named after Japanese naval vessels. 13) Both series deceive the viewer into questioning reality. It is implied that Evangelion takes place in a dream and MGS2 is implied to take place in virtual reality. 14) Deception and half truths is also a core theme among the interactions between much of he cast. Kaji, Ritsuko and Gendo never telling Misato the real purpose for the Evangelion or the human Instrumentality Project. Raiden is deceived and told half truths by Snake, Olga, Rose, and the A.I. Colonel. 15) Hideaki Anno and Hideo Kojima knew fan expectations for MGS2 and Eva would result in fanboy worship and cliched expectations. As a result both directors deliberately deceived fans by delivering multi layered convoluted plots. One of the bigger questions is what are the fans willing to learn about their own deeper motivations? Human introspection is key. 16) Otacon supports Snake in field like the nerv staff (Hyuga, Maya and Aoba) support Rei, Asuka and Shinji in field during combat operations. 17) The geofront that houses Nerv is underground as Arsenal gear is underwater beneath the big shell. 18) One could argue that Seele's intentions aren't pure evil just like Solidus Snake's motivations. Neither Seele nor Solidus are angels (no EVA pun intended) seeing how they do awful things to other people. Yet Seele wants to see the end of the world so that all human souls will be merged into one, ending all pain in suffering. Solidus wants to see the end of the Patriots so that people have freedom and civil rights. Both sides go about it in the worst ways possible.
Videogames are not art, but this sure was the most artistic game of the entire franchise. I'm convinced the whole purpose of Raiden's ordeal was to give an anti-escapism message.
I don't think this was a Game about the Simulation Theory but in fact about the Sons of the Patriots Plan, because in MGS4 the Nanomachines can be forced into Glitching out, when Otacon talks about the Nanomachines in Raidens Brain that is evidence towards Raiden being an SOP Guinea Pig...
I'd like to stress this, if you look at the credits, Tomokazu Fukushima is credited for writing the Codec Script. And Fukushima left Metal Gear after MGS3, which we all know is when MGS started to decline.
Fukushima about MGS2: “While there were some parts that were edited by the both of us, but if I’ll be bold to say it, all the real-time cutscenes were written primarily by Mr. Kojima, as well as all the mandatory CODEC calls. I was assigned to writing all the optional CODEC." source: thearkhound.tumblr.com/post/621110980547641344/tomokazu-fukushimas-role-in-metal-gear-solid-1?is_related_post=1 He was never the main writer, except for Ghost Babel or the Snake Tales. I see the decline in quality only regarding 4. PW was ok, and V was fantastic (though it flew over people's heads).
If you go look at the old shadow Moses briefings they talk about Force 21 and Raiden was trained under same as foxhound because also the Colonel mentions some people did not show up
The AI at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 also likes to Raiden when they refer to Emma saying: "didn't I tell you that GW was incomplete, not anymore thanks to you" EMMA NEVER SAID THAT! I'VE CHECKED!!
Can't wait to play Death Stranding, how a man can be that creative? He always comes up with something new, too bad Konami didn't recognize him at his true value 🤷🏼♂️
Im still having trouble understanding the theme? Is it the first line in the game? That AI is like a nuke? Or reality being an illusion to manipulate? Or both? Or proving that this is the greatest game of all time? :)
Great job. I have 2 questions not necessarily based on this video that maybe you can answer. First, did Ocelot know what was going on the whole time or was he also a puppet? I didn't catch anything that would indicate he was a puppet along with the rest. Secondly, the interesting thing Vamp said about them possibly being the only sane ones, what came to your mind when you heard that? I was thinking he was on the same thought level of the AI because I could easily see them saying the same thing, but I always thought Vamp was a puppet so maybe he meant something else.
+Cloud Strife He still kind of was, again like I mentioned the Patriots seem to have kept the S3 plan's actual goals from him, he didn't know about Liquid in his arm or Liquid getting Snake to be at the Big Shell and like Snake says at the end he as likely given a bogus location for the Patriots I think Vamp is referring to himself as a member of the terrorists and is talking about their cause. When he says "we" he means Solidus/Dead Cell and that like Solidus later says they consider themselves the good guys because they're fighting for freedom in the face of The Patriots' tyranny, they just figured seizing arsenal gear to get the names from the computer system was their best bet to destroy them.
+LogosSteve Ok that makes sense with Vamp. As far as Ocelot, his story is so confusing with him being a triple agent and all that it's hard to see what his goal was from start to finish and whether it changed at all or not. What exactly were his intentions?
Well in MGS1 he was just a double agent for Solidus and pretended to be with the Foxhound terrorists, in MGS2 he's a triple agent for The Patriots pretending to be with Solidus who had him pretend to be with the Russians in The Tanker chapter. During the Plant chapter he was just pretending to be with Solidus when he was really with The Patriots. His intentions throughout still just seemed to be to do what The Patriots wanted as far as I can tell, kind of dull really. Kojima doesn't really give him a motivation behind his actions until MGS4 which retroactively tells us that after meeting Big Boss in MGS3 he admired him and wanted to help him and thus he ended up with The Patriots after Big Boss's "death" (and also of course this is why he helps you in MGSV).
+LogosSteve Ok you just put a lot of pieces together for me as far as MGS1 and 2. Now in MGS3 I'm guessing he had grown to like Big Boss because it sure didn't seem like it at all throughout that game. Also in MGS4, why would he ever side with the Patriots if Big Boss was against them? Yeah you're right about the dullness, it seems Kojima couldn't connect the story perfectly in its entirety.
I think it was during Ocelot's final confrontation with Big Boss in MGS3 that he started to like Big Boss. In the after credits sequence he refers to him as John which I take to mean he respects him. I'm probably misremembering MGS4 and confusing myself I'll have to replay it. Yeah Ocelot's motivation was added retroactively so it's never a perfect retcon.
Two things: Kojima was not the only writer for Sons of Liberty, Tomokazu Fukushi assisted him and say it with me KOH - JEE - MA. Also your assumption that Fatman knew Raiden was lied to is probably right, Fatman is an agent of the Patriots who only agreed to take part in the S3 plan on the Big Shell to surpass Stillman. So he would've most likely been aware of the his role in the Big Shell Incident at the least. Good video though, but it is worth nothing that these themes aren't exclusive to Sons of Liberty by any means especially since the Big Shell Incident is a direct parallel to the Shadow Moses Incident and Snake Eater has a huge theme of deception/lies.
+Matthew Etter Yes I'm aware he's not the only writer. And yes the series as a whole has a running theme of your superiors not giving you all the facts of your missions. But the theme clearly encompasses more than just that here as a lot of my examples show.
+Matthew Etter Also I know I've said this before but I took enough Japan in college that it's just my nature to pronounce Japanese names and words with Japanese pronunciation. Though I really don't want to argue about pronunciation regardless, I don't think anyone else when they speak in English has to use Japanese or English pronunciation for Japanese names and words, they can do whatever. If you think I'm still wrong that's fine but that's just how I do it.
LogosSteve Well considering the Big Shell Incident is a recreation of Shadow Moses, then I'd say lies is equally as important in the first one as Sons of Liberty. You can draw a parallel from your examples to the first one in most cases. I mean Campbell withholds information from Snake, Liquid lies about being Miller, Liquid believes the lie that he was the inferior clone, Naomi doesn't know the truth about her parents and Grey Fox, Snake lies to her about it, Ocelot deceived Liquid, Otacon believed that he was working on something to help humanity and not destroy it. The list goes on, my point being I don't think lies and deception is any more of a central theme to Sons of Liberty than the first one. The main themes in Sons of Liberty are more about social engineering, censorship and existentialism which all tie into the overall theme of MEME. I really liked your other videos where you deconstructed the Patriots' conversation with Raiden, that's actually my favorite video analysis of the game. This isn't a criticism as I did quite enjoy the video but I think there's more to analyzing the main theme which is MEME (Kojima even said this himself).
I did kind of explain in the beginning of my video that saying it's MEME really doesn't explain much and that's so vague compared to what the game actually says. There's still a massive distinction between MGS1 and MGS2's lies. In MGS1 no one tells anyone else they want to be lied to to feel better, minor characters don't lie about seemingly trivial details but in MGS2 they do (Stillman's leg, Emma's motivation, etc.), no one says anything like "Insane? We might be the only ones telling the truth," and we don't have triple reveals like the S3 plan, or even double reveals in MGS1, only single reveals like Miller, Ocelot, etc. And I still haven't even done part 2, there's a lot more bizarre lies to cover and the whole idea of Raiden's own senses deceiving him. Thanks for watching and appreciating my stuff.
LogosSteve Glad to see you're back doing videos! Do you think you'll do any for any of the other installments or just Sons of Liberty? And thinking back and rewatching the video you're right, Sons of Liberty definitely does have more emphasis on deceitful nature.
The credit to mgs2's genius is in tomokazu Fukushima's writing for the most part, and many talented staff in konami. Kojima is the one coming up with ideas like bisexual vampires, scatological humor, and devices to toy with the player, but he lacks the intellectual and creative capacity to spearhead something like mgs2.
I love that. He does get called like a god or something. Maybe that's why Konami pushed him away? He is brilliant, yes, but we can't forget the amazing team that pull this off together. It doesn't help that people doesn't give MGS2 a chance when it came out. So, something is different. Roll with it. Its not destructible(in here). And Iam not just saying that as a Raiden fan. Being a supporter means to appreciate every aspect of a person right? He's still growing here. And I too, acknoledge that not only one person can be good. Others too. Example, like Fukushima and the Konami staff. Not just Kojima.
I think this video would have been better if you just did a speed listing of all the lies then explained the purpose and meaning behind these lies and reason why these lies exist in the narrative.
I'm 14 minutes in, and I don't think I can continue. Not trying to be harsh, I always like reading / watching MGS2 breakdowns, but I don't see why it's absolutely necessary to show every single lie / deception in the game. It's extremely tedious, you could have just gave us a couple of examples or just made a written list of them, that would have been more than enough to establish that lies / deception is one of the main themes in the game. Sorry, maybe I'll watch the rest of this video another time.
I am looking for clues if Death Stranding is related to MGS. I'm 22mins in and I'm enjoying every detail you highlight. I'm in the midst of realizing Kojima's visions I think - thanks to your analysis of course. I like it
Thank you for sharing....very interesting.....food for thought...on the other hand, there is no matter without energy.....there is no form without frequency, we cannot be, thrive, exist, and evolve, if we do not believe in Allah. I did not fear death, because there is no death,vi do not fear time, because it's an illusion, just like the present......There is an infinity of creations, some of which we ignore the existence, and cannot perceive..... spirituality......faith I discovered, paying a painful agonising price, is a gift.....you do not choose your faith, bit you can try to quantum jump your reality, and change dimensions, it's the big paradox,....how ????? Pray for faith.......start there, then pray for guidance..... persevere, then pray for knowledge, and be grateful and share the gifts bestowed upon you....follow the true teachings of man kind.....the 10 commandments......I'm telling you ..Allah does respond and grant favours......we are all one.....we are all one collective .....your ego is not you....your true heart is spiritual....it's the holy spirit.... Allah Akbar.....peace be upon us....
English pronunciation would be different for the second syllable I admit but after taking Japanese classes I just want to use the Japanese pronunciation.
This whole video is kinda pointless in my opinion. Lies and deceit have always been a key part in story telling. Change is what drives stories. I mean you could easily put together a compilation of instances where Snake was lied to in MGS1, but the theme doesn't revolve around it.
IK this is two years old.... But its sooo heavenly based on lies... That this game fooled many of players into thinking they'd play as solid. Leaving ppl in a uproar saying this was the worst one in the series. Also another thing... Kojema likes to resonate with their fanbase and communicates through gameplay....
![Why Raiden Makes MGS2 A Masterpiece [METAL GEAR SOLID 2 RETROSPECTIVE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kgCwrIrBfmE/mqdefault.jpg)
Kojima is one crazy dude... in the best way possible. The things he's responsible for me thinking about is something else. What a guy. I hope this world makes more like him. I really wish I could thank him.
These breakdowns of MGS you've made are by far the best on UA-cam. You come off as educated not because of big words any forced narration, but because you genuinely know how to analyze a story and how to convey it. I wish you'd done the other games, or even uploaded anymore :/ If you ever do upload again, I expect a "kept you waiting" joke somewhere in there
They played us like a damned fiddle!!
Welcome to 2020, in relations to this in context, it seems we're in a Hideo Kojima scripted work of art
Welcome back, LS. Excited to watch this. :D
I really miss deep involving storylines like this mgs was so thought provoking I always wished if Hideo Kojima and Hideaki Anno ( Evangelion) both worked together on something one day wherever it be a film or game it'd be one complete mindfuck! they are the masters of character driven narrative heavy stories
+Masta of Unlockin' Interesting thought. Who knows, if they meet at some even in Japan it's not impossible to believe it could happen.
That would be amazing. Evangelion is my favorite anime of all time, and I notice that the fanbases of both Eva and MGS like the other.
How about this: Hideo Kojima makes an Evangelion game, and Hideaki Anno makes a Metal Gear anime.
Especially since both Raiden and Shinji are hated for the same reasons.
How about Hideo Kojima and Yoko Taro (creator of NieR Automata) made a game together. That'll be the most thought-provoking, philosophy-filled game ever.
This is a fucking masterpiece mate.
Well played with the release date. Well played indeed.
+FinlandjinM What's significant about 4/30?
+s0nnyburnett In the game, Raiden and Rose reference the in-game date being April 29th near the start of the Big Shell mission, and then April 30th at the end, the anniversary of them first meeting in New York. Solidus also talks about how the date is important to the Patriots (and him) because George Washington was inaugurated at Federal Hall (the location the games ends at), on April 30th 1789 which Solidus describes as the moment Freedom could have been born.
LogosSteve I ended the game last year the same day it ended in-game: April 30th. It was spooky as hell.
25:38 It's kinda nice that this even comes in the apparently "Non-Canon" Metal Gear Ghost Babel in which Snake is reffered to as the Legend
Just realized you posted this on April 30th and this whole time I was trying to remember “what’s so special about April 30th?” So clever
I am legitimately so excited for all these videos, thanks man! MGS2 has always been my favourite and while I know people have their reasons for disliking it from a variety of standpoints, I think it's one of the most brilliantly written and constructed stories ever featured in a video game and touches on some topics I think still tend to get ignored. I know it's kind of a joke at this point, but the idea of memes and how it also carries into Rising fascinates me a ton and I think it's integral to understanding Raiden's character and evolution. Such a good character, in my eyes, that gets overlooked because he starts off flawed and whiny, although I think that just gave them more room to work with vs. characters like Big Boss and Snake who definitely developd and were fascinating in their own right, but didn't have the opportunity to grow dramatically as Raiden did.
This is a damn good analysis. It should get way more views. Please make more videos like this.
It's nice to see you've decided to take on another project. I still distinctly remember watching your videos a couple of years ago and finding them both deeply interesting and entertaining. This one's no different. Excited for the upcoming part(s)!
Excellent Video! Can't wait for Pt. 2!
The La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo are gonna DMCA this pretty hard.
But remember... if they do, that confirms their existence.
Your videos are legend.
Hope you're here to stay
+Arkangel630 Flattery will get you everywhere.
+LogosSteve "Legends are nothing, but bad news" - Solid Snake
>brother of the year ladies and gentlemen
Yeah, it didn't sound like Otacon really *wanted* that relationship
Yeah I admit I wouldn't have added that in looking bad.
Sounds like a case of "Step-mon, what are you doing?"
I need more hit me more :P
Great strat really, can't get enough of MGS2 discussions! It never stop amazing me!
Welcome back Steve!
God I love that speech from Snake at the end of the game.
This is more than just a "game". It's a learning experience!
Also both METAL GEAR SOLID 2 and EVANGELION are interesting works. I am a huge fan of both works and I love analysis videos on either work. These two have so much in common with one another so I'll list off a few similarities:
1) The Patriots are a group of 12 men operating a shadowy organization that control the world as are Seele.
2) Snake, Liquid and Solidus are clones of Big Boss. Rei Ayanmai is a clone of Yui. The Eva are clones of Adam and Lilith.
3) Both Evangelion and MGS2 were about deconstructing the genre they are classified in. (Action hero movies and Giant Robot genres)
4) Both have prominent use of the brainy tragic scientist types who are either deceived (Otacon, Ritsuko Akagi) or have ulterior motives (Gendo Ikari, Naomi Hunter)
5) The Eva are biped and humanoid in appearance as well as later Metal Gear models.
6) The ending of MGS 2 and The End of Evangelion were notorious for being the biggest mind screws. So much so that there was a fan backlash against both works.
7) Both series have a strong military presence in them. Eva has the Jssdf and the U.N. while in MGS2 there are U.S. marines, navy and seal teams along with Russian mercenaries.
8) Kaji plays the role of spy fooling many of his counterparts. Ocelot and Olga do the same.
9) Shinji hates Gendo, Snake and Liquid hate Big Boss showing a lack of familial bonding in father-son relationships.
10) Both series have AWESOME soundtracks
11) Both have similar tones, that is they both lean towards the cynical and hopeless side of human nature. The atmosphere is foreboding, tense, uneasy, and downright unsettling at times.
12) Raiden is named after a WW2 Japanese naval fighter. Most of the characters in Eva are also named after Japanese naval vessels.
13) Both series deceive the viewer into questioning reality. It is implied that Evangelion takes place in a dream and MGS2 is implied to take place in virtual reality.
14) Deception and half truths is also a core theme among the interactions between much of he cast. Kaji, Ritsuko and Gendo never telling Misato the real purpose for the Evangelion or the human Instrumentality Project. Raiden is deceived and told half truths by Snake, Olga, Rose, and the A.I. Colonel.
15) Hideaki Anno and Hideo Kojima knew fan expectations for MGS2 and Eva would result in fanboy worship and cliched expectations. As a result both directors deliberately deceived fans by delivering multi layered convoluted plots. One of the bigger questions is what are the fans willing to learn about their own deeper motivations? Human introspection is key.
16) Otacon supports Snake in field like the nerv staff (Hyuga, Maya and Aoba) support Rei, Asuka and Shinji in field during combat operations.
17) The geofront that houses Nerv is underground as Arsenal gear is underwater beneath the big shell.
18) One could argue that Seele's intentions aren't pure evil just like Solidus Snake's motivations. Neither Seele nor Solidus are angels (no EVA pun intended) seeing how they do awful things to other people. Yet Seele wants to see the end of the world so that all human souls will be merged into one, ending all pain in suffering. Solidus wants to see the end of the Patriots so that people have freedom and civil rights. Both sides go about it in the worst ways possible.
Videogames are not art, but this sure was the most artistic game of the entire franchise. I'm convinced the whole purpose of Raiden's ordeal was to give an anti-escapism message.
I don't think this was a Game about the Simulation Theory but in fact about the Sons of the Patriots Plan, because in MGS4 the Nanomachines can be forced into Glitching out, when Otacon talks about the Nanomachines in Raidens Brain that is evidence towards Raiden being an SOP Guinea Pig...
Good Analysis..Professionally done
I'd like to stress this, if you look at the credits, Tomokazu Fukushima is credited for writing the Codec Script.
And Fukushima left Metal Gear after MGS3, which we all know is when MGS started to decline.
Oh right, and Tomokazu Fukushima is credited as being a main writer as well.
Fukushima about MGS2: “While there were some parts that were edited by the both of us, but if I’ll be bold to say it, all the real-time cutscenes were written primarily by Mr. Kojima, as well as all the mandatory CODEC calls. I was assigned to writing all the optional CODEC."
source: thearkhound.tumblr.com/post/621110980547641344/tomokazu-fukushimas-role-in-metal-gear-solid-1?is_related_post=1
He was never the main writer, except for Ghost Babel or the Snake Tales.
I see the decline in quality only regarding 4. PW was ok, and V was fantastic (though it flew over people's heads).
I remember when I first played mgs2 was 12 and even at that age this whole ai conversion really had me thinking about the world
this game had some of the best graphics for the ps2
If you go look at the old shadow Moses briefings they talk about Force 21 and Raiden was trained under same as foxhound because also the Colonel mentions some people did not show up
Very interesting, looking forward for the next part.
Great video!
Very interesting take on the plot for MGS.
Dude can't wait to see this.
The AI at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 also likes to Raiden when they refer to Emma saying: "didn't I tell you that GW was incomplete, not anymore thanks to you"
EMMA NEVER SAID THAT!
I'VE CHECKED!!
This is great, good job!
Cant wait for part 2
Uploaded on April 30th... Sneaky.
Interesting that Ocelot was giving out a strong point with certain Americans "Falling in love with the sound of their own voice to speak the truth."
More like, "Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of DECEPTION"
Mgs 2 is so deep its predicted future 10/10
It's about time :D
April 30 my birthday. Im a fucking legend.
I want a Hideo Kojima Lego.
Your very unobtrusive commentary is the best example of useful subtitles I've seen yet.
Can't wait to play Death Stranding, how a man can be that creative? He always comes up with something new, too bad Konami didn't recognize him at his true value 🤷🏼♂️
Man fuck xbox and call of duty, I've been missing on this series
So now that mgs1 has been wrapped up along with 2, ready for mgs3?
break down everything.
Why "Kòjima" tho?
Im still having trouble understanding the theme? Is it the first line in the game? That AI is like a nuke? Or reality being an illusion to manipulate? Or both? Or proving that this is the greatest game of all time? :)
ty. added.
only 2k views ??? wrf
Great job. I have 2 questions not necessarily based on this video that maybe you can answer. First, did Ocelot know what was going on the whole time or was he also a puppet? I didn't catch anything that would indicate he was a puppet along with the rest. Secondly, the interesting thing Vamp said about them possibly being the only sane ones, what came to your mind when you heard that? I was thinking he was on the same thought level of the AI because I could easily see them saying the same thing, but I always thought Vamp was a puppet so maybe he meant something else.
+Cloud Strife He still kind of was, again like I mentioned the Patriots seem to have kept the S3 plan's actual goals from him, he didn't know about Liquid in his arm or Liquid getting Snake to be at the Big Shell and like Snake says at the end he as likely given a bogus location for the Patriots
I think Vamp is referring to himself as a member of the terrorists and is talking about their cause. When he says "we" he means Solidus/Dead Cell and that like Solidus later says they consider themselves the good guys because they're fighting for freedom in the face of The Patriots' tyranny, they just figured seizing arsenal gear to get the names from the computer system was their best bet to destroy them.
+LogosSteve Ok that makes sense with Vamp. As far as Ocelot, his story is so confusing with him being a triple agent and all that it's hard to see what his goal was from start to finish and whether it changed at all or not. What exactly were his intentions?
Well in MGS1 he was just a double agent for Solidus and pretended to be with the Foxhound terrorists, in MGS2 he's a triple agent for The Patriots pretending to be with Solidus who had him pretend to be with the Russians in The Tanker chapter. During the Plant chapter he was just pretending to be with Solidus when he was really with The Patriots. His intentions throughout still just seemed to be to do what The Patriots wanted as far as I can tell, kind of dull really. Kojima doesn't really give him a motivation behind his actions until MGS4 which retroactively tells us that after meeting Big Boss in MGS3 he admired him and wanted to help him and thus he ended up with The Patriots after Big Boss's "death" (and also of course this is why he helps you in MGSV).
+LogosSteve Ok you just put a lot of pieces together for me as far as MGS1 and 2. Now in MGS3 I'm guessing he had grown to like Big Boss because it sure didn't seem like it at all throughout that game. Also in MGS4, why would he ever side with the Patriots if Big Boss was against them? Yeah you're right about the dullness, it seems Kojima couldn't connect the story perfectly in its entirety.
I think it was during Ocelot's final confrontation with Big Boss in MGS3 that he started to like Big Boss. In the after credits sequence he refers to him as John which I take to mean he respects him. I'm probably misremembering MGS4 and confusing myself I'll have to replay it. Yeah Ocelot's motivation was added retroactively so it's never a perfect retcon.
☮️
IS there a part 3 to this?
There will be.
WHen?
Two things:
Kojima was not the only writer for Sons of Liberty, Tomokazu Fukushi assisted him and say it with me KOH - JEE - MA.
Also your assumption that Fatman knew Raiden was lied to is probably right, Fatman is an agent of the Patriots who only agreed to take part in the S3 plan on the Big Shell to surpass Stillman. So he would've most likely been aware of the his role in the Big Shell Incident at the least.
Good video though, but it is worth nothing that these themes aren't exclusive to Sons of Liberty by any means especially since the Big Shell Incident is a direct parallel to the Shadow Moses Incident and Snake Eater has a huge theme of deception/lies.
+Matthew Etter Yes I'm aware he's not the only writer. And yes the series as a whole has a running theme of your superiors not giving you all the facts of your missions. But the theme clearly encompasses more than just that here as a lot of my examples show.
+Matthew Etter Also I know I've said this before but I took enough Japan in college that it's just my nature to pronounce Japanese names and words with Japanese pronunciation. Though I really don't want to argue about pronunciation regardless, I don't think anyone else when they speak in English has to use Japanese or English pronunciation for Japanese names and words, they can do whatever. If you think I'm still wrong that's fine but that's just how I do it.
LogosSteve Well considering the Big Shell Incident is a recreation of Shadow Moses, then I'd say lies is equally as important in the first one as Sons of Liberty. You can draw a parallel from your examples to the first one in most cases. I mean Campbell withholds information from Snake, Liquid lies about being Miller, Liquid believes the lie that he was the inferior clone, Naomi doesn't know the truth about her parents and Grey Fox, Snake lies to her about it, Ocelot deceived Liquid, Otacon believed that he was working on something to help humanity and not destroy it. The list goes on, my point being I don't think lies and deception is any more of a central theme to Sons of Liberty than the first one.
The main themes in Sons of Liberty are more about social engineering, censorship and existentialism which all tie into the overall theme of MEME. I really liked your other videos where you deconstructed the Patriots' conversation with Raiden, that's actually my favorite video analysis of the game. This isn't a criticism as I did quite enjoy the video but I think there's more to analyzing the main theme which is MEME (Kojima even said this himself).
I did kind of explain in the beginning of my video that saying it's MEME really doesn't explain much and that's so vague compared to what the game actually says. There's still a massive distinction between MGS1 and MGS2's lies. In MGS1 no one tells anyone else they want to be lied to to feel better, minor characters don't lie about seemingly trivial details but in MGS2 they do (Stillman's leg, Emma's motivation, etc.), no one says anything like "Insane? We might be the only ones telling the truth," and we don't have triple reveals like the S3 plan, or even double reveals in MGS1, only single reveals like Miller, Ocelot, etc. And I still haven't even done part 2, there's a lot more bizarre lies to cover and the whole idea of Raiden's own senses deceiving him.
Thanks for watching and appreciating my stuff.
LogosSteve Glad to see you're back doing videos! Do you think you'll do any for any of the other installments or just Sons of Liberty?
And thinking back and rewatching the video you're right, Sons of Liberty definitely does have more emphasis on deceitful nature.
So what did actually happen in MGS2?
+s0nnyburnett The Manhattan Tanker and Big Shell Incidents respectively.
My interpretation is that none of it was real.
CynReviews Well that is just flat out wrong, did you even play the game?
+Matthew Etter "There are no facts, only interpretations"
It was shown to be real in MGS4 though.
Jebaited x 30
5*
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The credit to mgs2's genius is in tomokazu Fukushima's writing for the most part, and many talented staff in konami.
Kojima is the one coming up with ideas like bisexual vampires, scatological humor, and devices to toy with the player, but he lacks the intellectual and creative capacity to spearhead something like mgs2.
FUCKING THIS
Kojima gets too much credit in reality mgs is only so good because if the team not kojima himself
I love that. He does get called like a god or something. Maybe that's why Konami pushed him away? He is brilliant, yes, but we can't forget the amazing team that pull this off together. It doesn't help that people doesn't give MGS2 a chance when it came out. So, something is different. Roll with it. Its not destructible(in here). And Iam not just saying that as a Raiden fan. Being a supporter means to appreciate every aspect of a person right? He's still growing here. And I too, acknoledge that not only one person can be good. Others too. Example, like Fukushima and the Konami staff. Not just Kojima.
Snake had such a crybaby face in this game.
I think this video would have been better if you just did a speed listing of all the lies then explained the purpose and meaning behind these lies and reason why these lies exist in the narrative.
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I'm 14 minutes in, and I don't think I can continue. Not trying to be harsh, I always like reading / watching MGS2 breakdowns, but I don't see why it's absolutely necessary to show every single lie / deception in the game. It's extremely tedious, you could have just gave us a couple of examples or just made a written list of them, that would have been more than enough to establish that lies / deception is one of the main themes in the game. Sorry, maybe I'll watch the rest of this video another time.
Your comment has really stuck with me. Going forward I think I will follow your advice and be more concise.
I am looking for clues if Death Stranding is related to MGS. I'm 22mins in and I'm enjoying every detail you highlight. I'm in the midst of realizing Kojima's visions I think - thanks to your analysis of course. I like it
Thank you for sharing....very interesting.....food for thought...on the other hand, there is no matter without energy.....there is no form without frequency, we cannot be, thrive, exist, and evolve, if we do not believe in Allah. I did not fear death, because there is no death,vi do not fear time, because it's an illusion, just like the present......There is an infinity of creations, some of which we ignore the existence, and cannot perceive..... spirituality......faith I discovered, paying a painful agonising price, is a gift.....you do not choose your faith, bit you can try to quantum jump your reality, and change dimensions, it's the big paradox,....how ????? Pray for faith.......start there, then pray for guidance..... persevere, then pray for knowledge, and be grateful and share the gifts bestowed upon you....follow the true teachings of man kind.....the 10 commandments......I'm telling you ..Allah does respond and grant favours......we are all one.....we are all one collective .....your ego is not you....your true heart is spiritual....it's the holy spirit.... Allah Akbar.....peace be upon us....
Huh?
I cringe every time you say "Kojema"
I'm glad someone else was hurt by this
English pronunciation would be different for the second syllable I admit but after taking Japanese classes I just want to use the Japanese pronunciation.
This whole video is kinda pointless in my opinion. Lies and deceit have always been a key part in story telling. Change is what drives stories. I mean you could easily put together a compilation of instances where Snake was lied to in MGS1, but the theme doesn't revolve around it.
IK this is two years old.... But its sooo heavenly based on lies... That this game fooled many of players into thinking they'd play as solid. Leaving ppl in a uproar saying this was the worst one in the series.
Also another thing... Kojema likes to resonate with their fanbase and communicates through gameplay....
1. MGS3
2. MGS1
3. MGS 4
4. MGS2
5. MGS5
agree or no?