"Mortify the narcissist and abandon him: confront, humiliate/reflect, then soothe. Soothing him creates internal mortification (he cannot cast you as the evil one and has to blame himself for his predicament)." I executed this statement verbatim with a narcissist and I shut him down with quickness after just 3.5 months of sadistic abuse. I am so glad I did this to him, maybe he will confront his scary reality... trying to lie about alcohol, benzo's, and crystal meth are not something I will ever support. He knew I lost my husband to an overdose, grieved for 2 years alone to feel the feels. He thought that using crystal meth and hiding it from me wouldn't be a traumatic ordeal. I cannot thank you enough for your brilliance and how it has confirmed I did the right thing.
I have been binging you all night. This content is answering all sorts of theoretical questions that have been searing holes in my mind that began in childhood. My jaw has been on the floor, really. I have never seen someone explain these personality disorders in such an in depth way before. You are truly amazing in your articulation and understanding of this topic. Thank you.
Omg, when you explained everything about the dynamics of love and shared fantasy, approximately around 35min mark, it FINALLY makes TOTAL sense to me. About why it's a fantasy and how fear means he can't love but needs it and THAT'S why he wants to merge and control. Etc etc. you talk about that so often. But you really articulated it perfectly in this video and the defense mechanism makes sense to me now entirely. Thank you
Thank you! I have been feeling guilty about unloading on him and calling him out, but after three discards and receiving a very lame apology text after 11 months of no contact, I just couldn’t take it anymore. Unfortunately, I had to communicate it all by text, because he is too cowardly to have a face to face. I was honest, truthful and called him out on everything and made reference to his age. He is very sensitive about that, because he lied about it on his dating profile and later to me in person. Hopefully, that got him where it hurts. He has a choice, continue on the same path, or seek REAL help. Either way we are done, two years down the drain with this nonsense. I know I got off lucky time wise, but the damage done to me is still incomprehensible even with therapy.
I’m hoping this is true. I exposed the ex suspected toxic narcissistic person I was with after finally ending it on a private fb page meant to protect women who are dating. I was entangled with this person for 2 years too long. After I ended it and posted him in that group I found out he had been cheating on me but also cheating on me with his most recent ex wife for a year and a half! Then I did a background check and found out he had a dv charge and a harassment charge. I have blocked him on everything and am moving to another state in a few months. I hope he never tries to Hoover me because he knows he’s been fully exposed.
@ 11 minutes Abandonment- show the narcissist who they really are, mirror their false sense of self and grandiosity, and Abandon them; @ 15 minutes Projection is the Inner Evil projected onto outer Objects/People ; @ 25 minutes Shared Space (Shared Psychotic Space); @ 33 minutes Shared Fantasy, Attachment Styles; @ 35 minutes any hint of reality is a threat; @ 45 minutes Self Destruction and the False Self ; @ 48 minutes the Horror Show at Rock Bottom; @ 56 minutes Self Love experienced through Grandiosity and Projecting a False Self to the World, by Lying to the World, which in the end is Self Defeating and Counterproductive- deep inside the narcisist knows it’s Confabulation ; @ 59 minutes to preserve inner integrity and sense of self worth, when these motivations become extreme, become Malignant, we have Narcissism; @ 1:00 Mortification of the Narcissist
It’s crazy what he says around minute 42. One time when we were drinking whiskey I actually heard my ex say she feels that she’s unloveable and then put her head down like she was going to sleep on the table. I can’t help but feel bad for people that went through whatever caused this condition.
At the time, I had no idea what narcissism was. I just knew something was really wrong and that I was being treated like sh**. When I left, I held a mirror to her face and showed her her true self. I didn’t know it then, but it seems I mortified her. I’m glad I did.
You're right Sam..I remember in the early part of my relationship with the narcissist after intimacy he would turn on his side with his back to me then I would spoon him and hug around his waist he's 6'3" and I'm 5'2" then he would immediately wrap his arm that's free around my arm which was around his waist and kept my arm pinned to his side after a while my arm started to get numbed or I needed to use the bathroom either way soon as he felt me removing my arm he would pin my arm down more forcefully and held it there cuz he didn't want me to take my arm from around his waist. That uses to be so strange to me.
From my experience this is quite tricky even if there’s no history of violence. They refuse to look in the mirror and throw it right back at you which keeps you in the game because of the trauma bonding
I agree. The will to mortify or humiliate someone is always weaker than a clear and stern boundary set to protect oneself. It can not be overcome. It is like a iron fist covered by a velvet glove. You do not need to use one angry word. You can just tell them how it is. " I love you - but you feel nothing at all for me. So you miss the most important part of it all, that is has to flow from both of us. It needs two. You are alone again, just like me. I wish you well, my dear. Do not answer me, there is no need to talk any more." EXIT.
Fascinating and sad. Was with one under a year. Traumatized. He’s 68. Married 4 times, of course one of the lies was it was 2. Chronic liar. I’m divorced, the perfect target for him. He wanted to be my hero. I was his oxygen. He tattooed my name on his chest after 3 monthes, it was his surprise. Much more but I’ll save it for my book. 😂
It seems to me what most people don’t understand is that narcissists aren’t even aware of their own behavior towards others/in other words, they’re victims of their own mentality.
On the contrary of your statement, narcissists are very aware, they just in denial of the consequences of their actions. Its like, you see something then saying "I'm not seeing this, Im not seeing it." While you are looking directly at what it is you are not "seeing" They just dont care until someone points it out blatantly. Then the rage and humiliation follows. However, just like other cluster b types, they are aware of their actions, they are somewhat unaware if how some feels by their actions. Very big difference bud
Your not getting it. If he is able to be kind and caring to others, then the nasty he shows you is a choice. Your mothering a spoilt brat if you make excuses
It strikes me, as you describe the mortification of the narcissist, that this is exactly why therapy is so pointless for these creatures most of the time. Except, perhaps, with someone who is an expert in cluster B and understands exactly what is going on, refusing to join the narcissist’s fantasy. Narcissists generally love going to therapy where they can piss and moan to an empathetic carer. They love the attention and the reinforcement. It makes them worse. My husband very much liked his therapy and learning the language of therapy helped him to add elements to his word salad, to self-justify and reinforce his habitual abusive behavior. Therapists who play this role with narcissists don’t help anyone. It would be lovely if more mental health practitioners learned to recognize cluster B and treat it appropriately, but I have a feeling that’s a tall order.
So, if I can’t mortify him because he has been physically abusive 8 years ago, how do I stop the hovering. I try to leave the father of my son 8 years ago but he kept on pushing and pushing me to stay and give it another try. Because we had a 6 year old son, I finally after months of a nightmare, I gave in and stayed. Now he has been having an affair and I left him again moving into another appartement. But he is still in his fantasy world trying to get back. I ignore him as much as I can. Don’t answer his calls al the time. Maybe one’s a day. I can feel that he is getting angrier every day, not getting his way. But because of his aggression happening back then when I wanted to leave him, I can’t mortify? I never want to go back, I’m so glad that I made this decision of leaving him….
Either you get the narcissist out of your mind, or you go out of your mind - love it! The Venn diagram- I felt that the shared space became larger and the circles moved closer and closer until eventually they were as one circle with no separate space. I was becoming him even in my separate physical space, doing saying and even thinking as he would have me do. On reflection he seemed to have seeped into my mind and taken over. Thankfully I have recovered most of it, I believe. Excellent video. I have a question. Do you think there is hope for a narcissist after mortification?
To LD Apologies for late reply. I didn't know how I could say anything to be of help to you. I can however tell you where I sit on my experience now. My ex "discarded" me suddenly abruptly cruelly out of the blue early on New Years morning. Literally pushing me out of bed and out into the cold. There was a lot of snow on ground and icy roads. I couldn't even get in to my car and went back to his door to ask for warm water to defrost the door. He slammed the door in my face. I don't know if he's a "narcissist" " "borderine" , " psychopath" or a stark raving lunatic but I do know from his behaviour and demeanour that he's not playing with a full deck of cards! He was with his words (which I'll spare you!) and actions conveying to me that I was nothing. And I felt it deeply that moment. I was nothing. I've gone through bewilderment hurt anger and shame , vengeful thoughts I never knew I could have. I had a constant lump in my throat and the sadness was physically painful. Moving on, self reflection. The truth of my part in how and why my self esteem was dependent on how this one person viewed me. I was amazing, attractive, sexy, intelligent, a poet, a singer, oh and did I mention intelligent. I had allowed myself to get so puffed up. When I met him I was getting out of a sexless marriage where I had not had attention for years and wow! I was all these things I knew I was and this gorgeous, clever younger man appreciated me! Yes I am fairly intelligent and enjoy learning and using my brain. I'm not specially unattractive. I love singing and writing songs and poetry. But with this man I allowed my vanity to be nurtured and my total self worth was sustained through him. I hope that makes sense. It is difficult to describe. Because this feeling of being special needed to be sustained I allowed things in the relationship to happen that I was uncomfortable with or even hated at times becauses I needed or wanted to stay. We had such good times together and when it was good it was great -shared interests humour etc etc. It is a bit like an addiction. But if it doesn't feel right in any way. Then it is not right and I have to take responsibility for allowing my life to get taken over. He did me a favour discarding me. I needed it! I am all the person I am and have the gifts I've been given. My intelligence or lack of it, creativity or lack of it, looks or lack of them are not things to brag about or be puffed up about. They are from God I believe, to be used to edify not destroy. I can only say as advice, look to your path. Your gifts and strengths are special to you for peace in your soul and the edifying of those around you. Noone can destroy them or you. I hope this is of some help.
None whatsoever. Its something that is out of their control this is why criticism for them is unforgivable because they cannot correct themselves. Its a piece of something that is missing in their brain i would suppose maybe even a chemical imbalance that started way too long ago that they cannot reverse
@@elizabethmurphy4971 Gosh this makes me feel more stupid because my ex did nothing of the sort for me neither showed interest or empathy towards me but only a raging jelousy and always would ask me if i would ever consider changing careers to either military or law enforcement of any kind depending on what she saw on tv that triggered her infatuations of men in uniform.
God, yes they do cry. It’s always ‘it hurts me to hear how I hurt you’. Yep - it’s never about caring they hurt you, only how hurting you affects them.
Wow; Professor Vaknin, this 'hits the nail on the head,' explains the problem/impossibility of intimacy w/a narcissist/borderline. I married two narcissists, but recently fell for a borderline. In your videos, you've helped me understand the draw, and my issues (codependent, narcissistic?). I wasn't sure how I would ever be able to move on, but this explanation provides so much hope. My fear/s is/are dissolving, thanks to your outstanding videos/teaching. Thank you.
Hello Dr Vakin, thanks for all this material. Could you please develop if not done yet some information regarding how to deal with vulnerable narcisists the perpetual false victims. I'd be very interested to underest how to deal with teir behaviour and put borders when they enter our lifes. Your work here is verry useful. Thanks again.
AMAZING AS USUAL, This really make me feel sorry for narcissists because they are victims for ever ,see how mortification confuses the narcissist because the mortification message is you know what I hate your false self, I will love you if you show me your true self and he knows that the true self is the saurce of his pain so what can he do to solve this unsolvable problem
I.agree...now.I.want him.to know that I.do love you, im.still here, I wont hurt u or abandon you, that's why I went thru all this hell.for you...I.saw the real you all along.....
Sam, my gf left me for three days after i said I could ‘see her’, following some poor treatment i had been getting from her. This was meant to her way of punishing me, during those three days i remained silent. She came back and said she was going to leave me for a further week at which point i dumped her for good. We had just moved into a new house and had only been in it for two weeks on the day i told her that her behaviour was unacceptable. She has since removed all her clothes and furniture and blocked me on social media. Did i mortify her? It sounds like i did because i dont think she will ever want to see me again. I think it is a tragedy and i am strong for doing what needed to be done.
Walking in on his secondary and the three of us realizing what is happening created a mortification I suppose. There was no more denying at that point.
As we don't live together anymore....every time i go to his house, it feels to me like i'm stepping into a fantasy fake world. I just told my therapist this last week. Everything there ,is not what it is in reality. In this fantasy world ,believe it or not ,there were times that i felt exelent, it was for me an escape...maybe had to do something with me being a did- person...I am trying to end this relationship but pffff just feels like i'm so badly adicted to this.
Ohno, you, too? Once he told me that if I got a TBI and was incapacitated that he would finish me off. I’m in a motel having fled him a few hours ago. He told my father on the phone, “she’s safe here. The only harm she’ll come to is the harm she’s threatening to do to herself”. I haven’t said anything about wanting to harm myself and I don’t. I wonder if he was setting me up.
Wonderful. Because the narcissist often is lying to himself by overdoing his 'strengths' (confidence), does this then cause him to be egodystonic much of the time? Or does the narcissism protect him from being aware of the lie?
Overdoing strength is a weakness. Weakness doesn’t always lead to ego dystony, even in healthy people. The narcissist idealizes himself in the process of co-idealization, so is very unlikely to admit to any weaknesses.
You ghost him Cut off his narcissistic supply... Don't feed his ego. Don't entertain the fantasy while also not attacking it. He will think he is still in control and actually reciprocate.. before he knows it he's given you the slip you've been waiting for!!
Videos and look into purchasing his books. I bought “narcissistic supply”‘ and “violent,vindictive...narcissist” (on Amazon) by Sam Vaknin. You must disengage, my ex spouse spews his venom at almost every exchange for visitation of our toddler. I don’t say a word or make eye contact, also carry mace with me.
Avoid, no contact. If that serious for violence, police or physically move somewhere for awhile. 2-3 months seems to be a good time frame for them to create new shared fantasy
They make the fantasy out of defense and get angry at positive reactions to the fake self. My ex became disgusted if I complimented anything besides his appearance... which he was obsessed with. Because their appearance is the only thing that isn’t fake?
@@samvaknin Thank you. I may have but I’ll go check. I’ve been listening to your videos since the lime green door videos. It was finding out the fantasy is out of defense in this video that was a little mind boggling.
Maladaptive daydreaming is not a recognized diagnosis. It has nothing to do with fantasy, which is a defense mechanism and is perceived by the narcissist as reality.
"You failed even to fake... you're such an abysmal loser, a nobody, that you can't even fake properly." 😆 I love it. Pretty sure I have thought those words about a narcissist near verbatim before.
In one of the previous videos you stated that only "the mother" type of woman can mortify and "the smart-gorgeous" type is discarded when the narc senses the mortification . Does this count as "mortification like" result ? Thank you
Professor Vaknin, can I please ask, would the mortification be as successful if done by email and does it matter if you mention Narcissism/NPD? Thank you in advance
@@samvaknin I can't (and wouldn't) do it publicly so I'm hoping "seeing" himself in "black & white" will still have the desired effect. Thank you for your prompt response.
Sam, THANK YOU for educating me...your lectures/teachings have literally made something CLICK in my brain. I finally feel free of grip my ex had on me. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
Sam, what is your take on “earned secure”. The label given to those with insecure attachment in childhood, but processing your childhood and making sense of the overall story into adulthood.
Attachment styles very rarely change after childhood. Earned secure simply means that someone with inadequate parents succeeds to develop secure attachment as a CHILD and uses it in his interpersonal relationships as an adult.
@Robert Smith In the states, ive heard you've got a pretty potent bull frog over there, that is life changing, not sure but i think it has DMT or some derivative, but dont quote me on that.
I followed your advice, Dr. Vaknin. I responded to a text my ex had sent me a week ago. Basically I over emphasized all the virtues she doesn’t have (or didn’t whenwe broke up). Then I suggested, as a friend, that she concentrated her efforts in finding a partner among guys 70yo or more, since younger guys tend to reject overweight women with cellullites.. plus, a 70yo is more likely to be rich and take over all of her expenses (which was something she was always complaining about me) leaving her with free time to do voluntary work (since she’s so pure and loyal etc. and never lies nor cheats). The message was so vicious that if she’s a border my days are numbered hahaha
I know this isn't exactly the same thing but this reminds me of the technique I've read that narcissist or other predatory types do called D.A.R.V.O, deflect, attack, reverse victim / oppressor. I think the difference is that when a narcissist does DARVO, it's not based on any reality other than what he/she wants you to believe. This mortification process sounds like a similar concept of turning the tables but it's based on the actuality of who the narcissist Really is. Also Sam, I think I remember hearing you mention that alot of people claiming to be victims of narcissist abuse are actually narcissist themselves who were out narc'd by a bigger narc. So if two narcs were in a dispute with each other... a narc can't use DARVO on another narc... So do more developed narcs use mortification on lower level narcs?
I deal with DARVO in my videos on victimhood. And there is no such thing as a "lower" narcissist. NPD is like pregnancy: either you have it or you don't. Narcissistic traits and narcissistic style are not the same as a narcissistic DISORDER or pathology.
I delivered consequence for his action.....it was his true self I loved all along now what? I dont want to re traumatize him and abandon him,...now I.want to.show him that I will not abandon him...he can trust me, ...Im still here....
"Mortify the narcissist and abandon him: confront, humiliate/reflect, then soothe. Soothing him creates internal mortification (he cannot cast you as the evil one and has to blame himself for his predicament)." I executed this statement verbatim with a narcissist and I shut him down with quickness after just 3.5 months of sadistic abuse. I am so glad I did this to him, maybe he will confront his scary reality... trying to lie about alcohol, benzo's, and crystal meth are not something I will ever support. He knew I lost my husband to an overdose, grieved for 2 years alone to feel the feels. He thought that using crystal meth and hiding it from me wouldn't be a traumatic ordeal. I cannot thank you enough for your brilliance and how it has confirmed I did the right thing.
That’s a great win! Gonna try this one a few in my life
I have been binging you all night. This content is answering all sorts of theoretical questions that have been searing holes in my mind that began in childhood. My jaw has been on the floor, really. I have never seen someone explain these personality disorders in such an in depth way before. You are truly amazing in your articulation and understanding of this topic. Thank you.
Omg, when you explained everything about the dynamics of love and shared fantasy, approximately around 35min mark, it FINALLY makes TOTAL sense to me.
About why it's a fantasy and how fear means he can't love but needs it and THAT'S why he wants to merge and control. Etc etc. you talk about that so often. But you really articulated it perfectly in this video and the defense mechanism makes sense to me now entirely. Thank you
Thank you! I have been feeling guilty about unloading on him and calling him out, but after three discards and receiving a very lame apology text after 11 months of no contact, I just couldn’t take it anymore. Unfortunately, I had to communicate it all by text, because he is too cowardly to have a face to face. I was honest, truthful and called him out on everything and made reference to his age. He is very sensitive about that, because he lied about it on his dating profile and later to me in person. Hopefully, that got him where it hurts. He has a choice, continue on the same path, or seek REAL help. Either way we are done, two years down the drain with this nonsense. I know I got off lucky time wise, but the damage done to me is still incomprehensible even with therapy.
You did that for two years? My goodness…
He didn’t come back or try a Hoover in that time ?
“Mortification is cruel, but it is the only effective technique in the long term”. I can testify on that.
I’m hoping this is true. I exposed the ex suspected toxic narcissistic person I was with after finally ending it on a private fb page meant to protect women who are dating. I was entangled with this person for 2 years too long. After I ended it and posted him in that group I found out he had been cheating on me but also cheating on me with his most recent ex wife for a year and a half! Then I did a background check and found out he had a dv charge and a harassment charge. I have blocked him on everything and am moving to another state in a few months. I hope he never tries to Hoover me because he knows he’s been fully exposed.
I doing it but the fear is great
"You're his enemy because of who he is"
@ 11 minutes Abandonment- show the narcissist who they really are, mirror their false sense of self and grandiosity, and Abandon them; @ 15 minutes Projection is the Inner Evil projected onto outer Objects/People ; @ 25 minutes Shared Space (Shared Psychotic Space); @ 33 minutes Shared Fantasy, Attachment Styles; @ 35 minutes any hint of reality is a threat; @ 45 minutes Self Destruction and the False Self ; @ 48 minutes the Horror Show at Rock Bottom; @ 56 minutes Self Love experienced through Grandiosity and Projecting a False Self to the World, by Lying to the World, which in the end is Self Defeating and Counterproductive- deep inside the narcisist knows it’s Confabulation ; @ 59 minutes to preserve inner integrity and sense of self worth, when these motivations become extreme, become Malignant, we have Narcissism; @ 1:00 Mortification of the Narcissist
It’s crazy what he says around minute 42. One time when we were drinking whiskey I actually heard my ex say she feels that she’s unloveable and then put her head down like she was going to sleep on the table. I can’t help but feel bad for people that went through whatever caused this condition.
Brilliant. You are a great professor. (Things go awry when I act different from my role as a figment of his imagination).
At the time, I had no idea what narcissism was. I just knew something was really wrong and that I was being treated like sh**. When I left, I held a mirror to her face and showed her her true self. I didn’t know it then, but it seems I mortified her. I’m glad I did.
Eric Fromm, 'The Art of Loving' is one of Fromm's brilliant books.
I'm 15 minutes in. You're a great educator. I need to make notes and get the most from these talks.
Your concept of the shared safe space vs. the fantasy is quite brilliant 👍🏻
You are my life saver
Thank you for your work
You're right Sam..I remember in the early part of my relationship with the narcissist after intimacy he would turn on his side with his back to me then I would spoon him and hug around his waist he's 6'3" and I'm 5'2" then he would immediately wrap his arm that's free around my arm which was around his waist and kept my arm pinned to his side after a while my arm started to get numbed or I needed to use the bathroom either way soon as he felt me removing my arm he would pin my arm down more forcefully and held it there cuz he didn't want me to take my arm from around his waist. That uses to be so strange to me.
From my experience this is quite tricky even if there’s no history of violence. They refuse to look in the mirror and throw it right back at you which keeps you in the game because of the trauma bonding
I agree. The will to mortify or humiliate someone is always weaker than a clear and stern boundary set to protect oneself. It can not be overcome. It is like a iron fist covered by a velvet glove. You do not need to use one angry word. You can just tell them how it is. " I love you - but you feel nothing at all for me. So you miss the most important part of it all, that is has to flow from both of us. It needs two. You are alone again, just like me. I wish you well, my dear. Do not answer me, there is no need to talk any more." EXIT.
The problem is not them throwing it back at you. The problem is you catching what they throw.
Fascinating and sad. Was with one under a year. Traumatized. He’s 68. Married 4 times, of course one of the lies was it was 2. Chronic liar. I’m divorced, the perfect target for him. He wanted to be my hero. I was his oxygen. He tattooed my name on his chest after 3 monthes, it was his surprise. Much more but I’ll save it for my book. 😂
Yes Sam we Women knew about our Brains compared to men's a long time ago but most men don't know thank God you are one of a few that does.
Thank you! Brillant information!
Thanks for your valuable information. You are opening the mind to many people in the world. Including me. I wish you much success.
It seems to me what most people don’t understand is that narcissists aren’t even aware of their own behavior towards others/in other words, they’re victims of their own mentality.
On the contrary of your statement, narcissists are very aware, they just in denial of the consequences of their actions.
Its like, you see something then saying "I'm not seeing this, Im not seeing it." While you are looking directly at what it is you are not "seeing"
They just dont care until someone points it out blatantly. Then the rage and humiliation follows. However, just like other cluster b types, they are aware of their actions, they are somewhat unaware if how some feels by their actions.
Very big difference bud
Your not getting it. If he is able to be kind and caring to others, then the nasty he shows you is a choice. Your mothering a spoilt brat if you make excuses
Yes they are, they’re nice in public
They aren’t aware that there could be any other way
It strikes me, as you describe the mortification of the narcissist, that this is exactly why therapy is so pointless for these creatures most of the time. Except, perhaps, with someone who is an expert in cluster B and understands exactly what is going on, refusing to join the narcissist’s fantasy. Narcissists generally love going to therapy where they can piss and moan to an empathetic carer. They love the attention and the reinforcement. It makes them worse. My husband very much liked his therapy and learning the language of therapy helped him to add elements to his word salad, to self-justify and reinforce his habitual abusive behavior. Therapists who play this role with narcissists don’t help anyone. It would be lovely if more mental health practitioners learned to recognize cluster B and treat it appropriately, but I have a feeling that’s a tall order.
So, if I can’t mortify him because he has been physically abusive 8 years ago, how do I stop the hovering. I try to leave the father of my son 8 years ago but he kept on pushing and pushing me to stay and give it another try. Because we had a 6 year old son, I finally after months of a nightmare, I gave in and stayed. Now he has been having an affair and I left him again moving into another appartement. But he is still in his fantasy world trying to get back. I ignore him as much as I can. Don’t answer his calls al the time. Maybe one’s a day. I can feel that he is getting angrier every day, not getting his way. But because of his aggression happening back then when I wanted to leave him, I can’t mortify? I never want to go back, I’m so glad that I made this decision of leaving him….
Your channel has been very helpful. Thank you…
Either you get the narcissist out of your mind, or you go out of your mind - love it!
The Venn diagram- I felt that the shared space became larger and the circles moved closer and closer until eventually they were as one circle with no separate space. I was becoming him even in my separate physical space, doing saying and even thinking as he would have me do.
On reflection he seemed to have seeped into my mind and taken over.
Thankfully I have recovered most of it, I believe.
Excellent video. I have a question. Do you think there is hope for a narcissist after mortification?
To LD
Apologies for late reply. I didn't know how I could say anything to be of help to you.
I can however tell you where I sit on my experience now.
My ex "discarded" me suddenly abruptly cruelly out of the blue early on New Years morning. Literally pushing me out of bed and out into the cold. There was a lot of snow on ground and icy roads. I couldn't even get in to my car and went back to his door to ask for warm water to defrost the door. He slammed the door in my face.
I don't know if he's a "narcissist" " "borderine" , " psychopath" or a stark raving lunatic but I do know from his behaviour and demeanour that he's not playing with a full deck of cards!
He was with his words (which I'll spare you!) and actions conveying to me that I was nothing. And I felt it deeply that moment. I was nothing.
I've gone through bewilderment hurt anger and shame , vengeful thoughts I never knew I could have. I had a constant lump in my throat and the sadness was physically painful.
Moving on, self reflection. The truth of my part in how and why my self esteem was dependent on how this one person viewed me. I was amazing, attractive, sexy, intelligent, a poet, a singer, oh and did I mention intelligent. I had allowed myself to get so puffed up. When I met him I was getting out of a sexless marriage where I had not had attention for years and wow! I was all these things I knew I was and this gorgeous, clever younger man appreciated me!
Yes I am fairly intelligent and enjoy learning and using my brain. I'm not specially unattractive. I love singing and writing songs and poetry. But with this man I allowed my vanity to be nurtured and my total self worth was sustained through him. I hope that makes sense. It is difficult to describe.
Because this feeling of being special needed to be sustained I allowed things in the relationship to happen that I was uncomfortable with or even hated at times becauses I needed or wanted to stay. We had such good times together and when it was good it was great -shared interests humour etc etc.
It is a bit like an addiction. But if it doesn't feel right in any way. Then it is not right and I have to take responsibility for allowing my life to get taken over.
He did me a favour discarding me. I needed it!
I am all the person I am and have the gifts I've been given. My intelligence or lack of it, creativity or lack of it, looks or lack of them are not things to brag about or be puffed up about.
They are from God I believe, to be used to edify not destroy.
I can only say as advice, look to your path. Your gifts and strengths are special to you for peace in your soul and the edifying of those around you.
Noone can destroy them or you.
I hope this is of some help.
@@elizabethmurphy4971 This will help alot. Ty.
None whatsoever. Its something that is out of their control this is why criticism for them is unforgivable because they cannot correct themselves. Its a piece of something that is missing in their brain i would suppose maybe even a chemical imbalance that started way too long ago that they cannot reverse
@@LD-ju7ge wait he took his life 15 minutes before your comment?
@@elizabethmurphy4971
Gosh this makes me feel more stupid because my ex did nothing of the sort for me neither showed interest or empathy towards me but only a raging jelousy and always would ask me if i would ever consider changing careers to either military or law enforcement of any kind depending on what she saw on tv that triggered her infatuations of men in uniform.
God, yes they do cry. It’s always ‘it hurts me to hear how I hurt you’. Yep - it’s never about caring they hurt you, only how hurting you affects them.
Not even how you effected them but someone who hurt them once.
Nail on the head, ugh!
@@deapgriths1893 wee
r e redstar err
Bang on the money.
Wow; Professor Vaknin, this 'hits the nail on the head,' explains the problem/impossibility of intimacy w/a narcissist/borderline. I married two narcissists, but recently fell for a borderline. In your videos, you've helped me understand the draw, and my issues (codependent, narcissistic?). I wasn't sure how I would ever be able to move on, but this explanation provides so much hope. My fear/s is/are dissolving, thanks to your outstanding videos/teaching. Thank you.
Hello Dr Vakin, thanks for all this material. Could you please develop if not done yet some information regarding how to deal with vulnerable narcisists the perpetual false victims. I'd be very interested to underest how to deal with teir behaviour and put borders when they enter our lifes. Your work here is verry useful. Thanks again.
@@white6505 Good point!
AMAZING AS USUAL, This really make me feel sorry for narcissists because they are victims for ever ,see how mortification confuses the narcissist because the mortification message is you know what I hate your false self, I will love you if you show me your true self and he knows that the true self is the saurce of his pain so what can he do to solve this unsolvable problem
Exactly.. worded perfectly
I.agree...now.I.want him.to know that I.do love you, im.still here, I wont hurt u or abandon you, that's why I went thru all this hell.for you...I.saw the real you all along.....
Sam, my gf left me for three days after i said I could ‘see her’, following some poor treatment i had been getting from her. This was meant to her way of punishing me, during those three days i remained silent. She came back and said she was going to leave me for a further week at which point i dumped her for good. We had just moved into a new house and had only been in it for two weeks on the day i told her that her behaviour was unacceptable. She has since removed all her clothes and furniture and blocked me on social media. Did i mortify her? It sounds like i did because i dont think she will ever want to see me again. I think it is a tragedy and i am strong for doing what needed to be done.
Well done. I did similar but gave it a 2nd chance. It didn't work. NC now for 4 months. Never going back.
Good job
"and this time mommy hates you" 😂😂😂
😂😂
😂😂😂
Brilliant as ever
Walking in on his secondary and the three of us realizing what is happening created a mortification I suppose. There was no more denying at that point.
As we don't live together anymore....every time i go to his house, it feels to me like i'm stepping into a fantasy fake world. I just told my therapist this last week. Everything there ,is not what it is in reality. In this fantasy world ,believe it or not ,there were times that i felt exelent, it was for me an escape...maybe had to do something with me being a did- person...I am trying to end this relationship but pffff just feels like i'm so badly adicted to this.
Is the narcissist making jokes about killing you sometimes also considered a threat or just really dark humor?
Always take it seriously. Better safe than dead.
@@samvaknin thank you for taking the time to answer. I will take this seriously.
Ohno, you, too? Once he told me that if I got a TBI and was incapacitated that he would finish me off. I’m in a motel having fled him a few hours ago. He told my father on the phone, “she’s safe here. The only harm she’ll come to is the harm she’s threatening to do to herself”. I haven’t said anything about wanting to harm myself and I don’t. I wonder if he was setting me up.
Superb 🎉 at last somebody is saying it
If the “reverse discard” has already occurred, how is the mortification to be accomplished?
Informative and Excellent.
Thank you .
What do you do when you have a young child together
What is the expected outcome of doing this to someone who does not have NPD?
So how do you deal with a Violent narcissist ?
Very interesting lecture! BTW, I am in the 2% of people that get your last name right, professor Vaknin!
Much appreciated.
Wonderful. Because the narcissist often is lying to himself by overdoing his 'strengths' (confidence), does this then cause him to be egodystonic much of the time? Or does the narcissism protect him from being aware of the lie?
Wow great wording, this is the only question still nagging me after realizing all of this truth...
Overdoing strength is a weakness. Weakness doesn’t always lead to ego dystony, even in healthy people. The narcissist idealizes himself in the process of co-idealization, so is very unlikely to admit to any weaknesses.
Thank you, Professor.
My ex seemed like they knew that they were a narcissist and still behaved that way. What then?
what do you do if you can’t mortify because the narcissist has a history of violence?
You watch my other videos.
You ghost him
Cut off his narcissistic supply...
Don't feed his ego. Don't entertain the fantasy while also not attacking it. He will think he is still in control and actually reciprocate.. before he knows it he's given you the slip you've been waiting for!!
Videos and look into purchasing his books. I bought “narcissistic supply”‘ and “violent,vindictive...narcissist” (on Amazon) by Sam Vaknin. You must disengage, my ex spouse spews his venom at almost every exchange for visitation of our toddler. I don’t say a word or make eye contact, also carry mace with me.
Avoid, no contact. If that serious for violence, police or physically move somewhere for awhile. 2-3 months seems to be a good time frame for them to create new shared fantasy
@@pjstasyna1 true or 2-3 days in some cases I’ve seen. They jump from one shared fantasy to another.
They make the fantasy out of defense and get angry at positive reactions to the fake self. My ex became disgusted if I complimented anything besides his appearance... which he was obsessed with. Because their appearance is the only thing that isn’t fake?
Watch the videos on the way the narcissist reacts to your empathy.
@@samvaknin Thank you. I may have but I’ll go check. I’ve been listening to your videos since the lime green door videos. It was finding out the fantasy is out of defense in this video that was a little mind boggling.
Has the global trend of aggressive competition caused cluster b personalities to thrive in positions of power & authority?
Yes.
Is there a difference between maladaptive daydreaming and magical thinking and fantasy in cluster B personalities?
Maladaptive daydreaming is not a recognized diagnosis. It has nothing to do with fantasy, which is a defense mechanism and is perceived by the narcissist as reality.
@@samvaknin thank you very much.
"You failed even to fake... you're such an abysmal loser, a nobody, that you can't even fake properly." 😆 I love it. Pretty sure I have thought those words about a narcissist near verbatim before.
So how do you mortify if there has been violence. How do you get rid for good in that situation...?
Thank God !! No more insanity ❤ mortified end ❤
In one of the previous videos you stated that only "the mother" type of woman can mortify and "the smart-gorgeous" type is discarded when the narc senses the mortification . Does this count as "mortification like" result ? Thank you
Watch the video about femme fatale.
Are schizoids almost immune or more at risk for mortification?
More at risk. Their core is really void, so they have little or no "immune" resistance to mortification.
@@samvaknin thank you.
Professor Vaknin, can I please ask, would the mortification be as successful if done by email and does it matter if you mention Narcissism/NPD? Thank you in advance
Mortification is a reaction to - usually public - shame and humiliation.
@@samvaknin I can't (and wouldn't) do it publicly so I'm hoping "seeing" himself in "black & white" will still have the desired effect. Thank you for your prompt response.
Sam, THANK YOU for educating me...your lectures/teachings have literally made something CLICK in my brain. I finally feel free of grip my ex had on me. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
Wow❤
Yes !
Sam, what is your take on “earned secure”. The label given to those with insecure attachment in childhood, but processing your childhood and making sense of the overall story into adulthood.
Attachment styles very rarely change after childhood. Earned secure simply means that someone with inadequate parents succeeds to develop secure attachment as a CHILD and uses it in his interpersonal relationships as an adult.
@@samvaknin thank you
What if u still love him, could it evoke a change in behavior...
every one should just have a good dose of DMT
@Robert Smith In the states, ive heard you've got a pretty potent bull frog over there, that is life changing, not sure but i think it has DMT or some derivative, but dont quote me on that.
I followed your advice, Dr. Vaknin. I responded to a text my ex had sent me a week ago. Basically I over emphasized all the virtues she doesn’t have (or didn’t whenwe broke up). Then I suggested, as a friend, that she concentrated her efforts in finding a partner among guys 70yo or more, since younger guys tend to reject overweight women with cellullites.. plus, a 70yo is more likely to be rich and take over all of her expenses (which was something she was always complaining about me) leaving her with free time to do voluntary work (since she’s so pure and loyal etc. and never lies nor cheats). The message was so vicious that if she’s a border my days are numbered hahaha
Of course the responsibility is all mine. You just told us to confront, mirror and leave some hope in the end, to help in her cure.
What about female narcissist (mothers and predatory females).
It's the same, only that with a mother you were born into it and way more entrenched.
Superb content as always. Wouldn't want to precipitate suicide through mortification but no doubt it is the best course as a last resort.
Suicide is unlikely. At most, suicidal IDEATION.
@@samvaknin Ah, yes, of course. Thank you, Dr. Vaknin.
I know this isn't exactly the same thing but this reminds me of the technique I've read that narcissist or other predatory types do called D.A.R.V.O, deflect, attack, reverse victim / oppressor. I think the difference is that when a narcissist does DARVO, it's not based on any reality other than what he/she wants you to believe. This mortification process sounds like a similar concept of turning the tables but it's based on the actuality of who the narcissist Really is. Also Sam, I think I remember hearing you mention that alot of people claiming to be victims of narcissist abuse are actually narcissist themselves who were out narc'd by a bigger narc. So if two narcs were in a dispute with each other... a narc can't use DARVO on another narc... So do more developed narcs use mortification on lower level narcs?
I deal with DARVO in my videos on victimhood. And there is no such thing as a "lower" narcissist. NPD is like pregnancy: either you have it or you don't. Narcissistic traits and narcissistic style are not the same as a narcissistic DISORDER or pathology.
😄 @ " it's profound because I said it "
I delivered consequence for his action.....it was his true self I loved all along now what? I dont want to re traumatize him and abandon him,...now I.want to.show him that I will not abandon him...he can trust me, ...Im still here....
Woah. Wait, did i accidentally put a friend through cold therapy? Haha....
So sick of people with weird superstitions. It seems the ignorance is on the rise and celebrated.
Everything you said might be true except Unicorns were NOT created by con artists. 😆