Narcissist FEARS YOUR LOVE, Intimacy: Perfectionism, Envy, Hate
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- Опубліковано 10 лис 2024
- Perfectionism has several psychodynamic components: grandiose infallibility, fear of failure, procrastination-avoidance, passive-aggressive sadism, people-pleasing (I can be loved only if and when I am perfect).
Narcissist can idealize only internal objects - hence snapshotting. Why? Because his grandiosity requires that he idealizes only himself and internalizing an external objects makes it a part of himself, his extension. This is co-idealization.
The idealized internal objects must be perfect - hence perfectionism. Others, out of envy, spite, malice, or self-interested ulterior motives conspire to render the internal objects less than perfect (aggression) or expose their imperfections (passive-aggression).
The snapshots must also be perfect, so they are photoshopped.
But perfectionism sets the narcissist up for failure. It is self-defeating and ego dystonic. How come? It is intended to prevent destructive envy.
The narcissist has no core, so he experiences his internal objects as ego-alien. He is like a hive, ant colony, coalition, alliance, not unitary. His internal environment is regulated exclusively with negative emotions/affects such as shame, guilt, envy, anger, and hate. Narcissist not only hates himself, he is angry at himself, ashamed of himself - and envies himself!!!
Melanie Klein's three positions (baby's psychological progression)
1. Split bad (frustrating) object out there, good (gratifying) object in me
2. Depressive realization: everyone has both good and bad sides
3. Internalization of bad object and reparation: integration of both objects - good and bad - in single ego.
Sam Vaknin's three positions:
Normal, healthy progression
1. Split good object out there, bad object in me (mommy can’t be bad, it is too threatening)
2. Depressive position
3. Internalization of good object and reparation, single ego
Narcissist's maladaptive, disorganized, dysfunctional progression
Stage 3: instead of reparation, regression to paranoid-schizoid position (back to stage 1) and loop stages 1-2.
Jung was closest when he described pathological narcissism as failure of narcissistic investment in introversion.
The narcissist must deny the existence of any good outside himself.
The narcissist defends himself against raging, all consuming envy - by solipsistically claiming to be the only good object in the world.
This is an object that cannot be had by anyone, except the narcissist and, therefore, is immune to the narcissist's threatening, annihilating envy.
In order to refrain from being "owned" by anyone (and, thus, avoid self-destruction in the hands of his own envy), the narcissist reduces others to "non-entities" (the narcissistic solution), or completely avoids all meaningful contact with them (the schizoid solution).
The suppression of envy is at the core of the narcissist's being. If he fails to convince his self that he is the only good object in the universe, he is bound to be exposed to his own murderous envy. If there are others out there who are better than him, he envies them, he lashes out at them ferociously, uncontrollably, madly, hatefully and spitefully, he tries to eliminate them.
If someone tries to get emotionally intimate with the narcissist, she threatens the grandiose belief that no one but the narcissist can possess the good object (that is the narcissist himself).
Only the narcissist can own himself, have access to himself, possess himself. This is the only way to avoid seething envy and certain self-annihilation. Perhaps it is clearer now why narcissists react as raving madmen to anything, however minute, however remote that seems to threaten their grandiose fantasies, the only protective barrier between themselves and their lethal, seething envy.
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Have you tried to offend a narcissist and you feel like they don’t even react to the extent a ‘normal’ person would react! It’s like throwing an object at a wall but there’s nothing there and it just go’s into this emptiness! And doesn’t actually hit any walls or objects! I don’t know how I came to the ‘knowing’ or using my intuition a person was a narcissist but here’s my tips:
1. They tell you to change, constantly you are not perfect so it’s you that needs to make a change so you do and it’s still not good enough!
2. You feel emotionally and spiritually drained being around them,
3. They project all their shortcomings onto you and you start to believe you are their shortcomings ( There’s no real person it’s just excessive projections)
4. There’s no self awareness, and if you get an apology it’s fake and feels fake because the truth is a ‘normal’ person can see and hear you
5. Which brings me to my next point , they don’t see or hear you, you are constantly walking on eggshells because you are terrified of their reactions not in a way they would abuse you but in a way that they will slam the door on your face!
6. There is no intimacy like nothing and they can’t engage in any type of intimacy, they’re also good takers but not givers (In the beginning they give yeah)
7. The whole interaction feels false, it’s not based on intimacy and a real authentic connection! What is intimacy? “ I- See- Into - Me” but with narcissists you see into them!
8. There’s no you as a person, individual with their own needs! I remember wearing a different tradition clothes and I showed the narcissist and the response was “it’s not my type of clothes” you are literally there to serve them and their image. Blank point period.
9. You also realise they never learn and they do things repetitively to either hurt you deliberately or don’t see how they need to change ( they honestly can’t bring about the changes and when you make a request it’s just temporary and they go back to what they did to you before)
10. Maybe this is an overlap with psychopathy but they love causing you pain and their eyes glimmer with life when they see you crying and in pain seeing they caused it
There’s plenty more but that’s all for now.
Even when you serve them it's never enough...
TV
Great list ✍🏼
Wow si true!
You nailed it👏 After 21 months of the ex dragging out the divorce/settlement, we had mediation on Friday. Nearly there🥳 & everything you have to go through to get rid of them is all WORTH IT 👌
This amazes me: The fact that they prefer to frustrate themselves in order to avoid contentment of others. I used to say to my ex when we broke up: "I really wish you the best in life, to be very happy and find what you need". He replied: "I don't want to be happy if that is what you want for me. If it makes you happy that I'm happy, then I won't be happy. I don't want to be happy because of you". Extremely shocking their perverse way of thinking!!!
Haha 😂😅 - I can’t believe I what I just read. This can not be made up. These narcs are mad.xx
@@user-of9bx1uk3u They are ..........
Oh my God
Omg that’s such sick thinking! I can totally understand after being in a relationship with one though! I was much younger, so not as wise about the world unfortunately. But when you finally do break free from them they want nothing to do with you or literally anything that would remind them of you. They cut you with precision, and want you to know anything you are, they are the opposite. It’s so confusing for anyone who hasn’t experienced it.
@@fooled_twice4668 🤣🤣🤣
I could never understand these weird cycles in my marriage. It was surreal, like "how/why are we back HERE again?!" Our toxic relationship just kept cycling, never growing or developing. I was too young to know and youtube didn't exist back then ;)
Exactly how mine was. 13 years and I finally just got an apartment for my kids and myself and filling divorce.
It's like being haunted by a sense of evil in your life that they feel for you and unceasingly turn the tables of sanity and peace.
No U tube back then. I was in the beginning of a rough divorce.
Picked up Sam's book $47.
I was completely devastated, triggered, out of my mind, finding out that I was living a LIE, groomed by my Narc Family of Origin.
The Lord brought me out of it, only to now see the entire Country and World run by Narcissists.
We don't have much time left.
Repent and know God before it's too late. ✝️🙏❤️
Thank god for you tube now!
Ambivalent emotionally divorced people
So the narcissists is ok with pretending they love you, but once they know they truly love you, that makes you good and by default they are now bad. This causes them to envy you, because there can only be one good person, and since they now feel bad cause there's a mutual love, they have to destroy you so they can become good again in their minds. Wow, this is so erroneous I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't in love with a narcissists for 4 years. (Ended horribly)
They never love You
Well said
No wonder I was so confused for so many years. I thought the more I loved him that our relationship would improve. I was so wrong. It's so hard for a normal person to understand this crap.
Your comment really sums up the whole deal of being around this type of person.
@@gaiaswildchildtarot yes! I have deteriorated my life, my attitude my looks I can't eat. I can't stand going to bed or waking up. I am falling behind at school. Everything is being literally stripped and all stays the same for him. He is PERFECT.
The man I loved, my husband, always told me he hated me. You are spot on. My divorce is spot on too, nearly completed.
Good for you Jane! I have such a sister, went no contact about 3 years ago...peace at last! I understand the hatred completely. All the best.
You poor dear. No wife should ever hear such words from her husband! 💔😭💔
He loved you that is because he said he hated you. To get it all clear in his own head. He envied you to protect his inner self.
@@KhassiaKyes, it is awful and sad😢😢.
The envy he had for me was unbelievable... and it really ramped up the more I gave love to him and control to him. I am out of this horror now, however, I am still healing and your explanations have helped me more than anyone! THANK YOU SIR!
@@Roberta_Esposito My husband actually told me he wanted to be me and then later said he just made that up.
I thought, there is no way anyone could make that up.
@@Roberta_EspositoI respect your bravery in telling the truth about what you did and also in realizing how it effected your wife.
I will pray for you and your wife. God is able to redeem all of us.
Congratulations. The strength you've gained will be your reward.
Isnt't it sad, the more love and control you give them the more they withdraw any emotion from you, so sad, I am with a covert
I’ve never heard another lecturer who has expanded my mind with the use of language that is so poetic, metaphorical and philosophical as you Sam! I relate so much to what you share, as I have many narc/borderline traits. It really helps me to understand myself and my subconscious actions/avoidances. Your lectures also empower me bc you stress the fact that the narcissist was created, it’s not their fault that their behaviors are deeply rooted defense mechanisms that exist to protect their fragile, damaged ego.
Very deep and interesting study of narcissism. I've known a few of them in my lifetime and I can definitely agree that envy is a strong factor in their existence. They can love you and hate you at the same time however they only really love themselves.
We don't love ourselves, we don't even really know what love is. I equate love with familiarity, and even then my outlook on the world and people is completely transactional.
I always thought it was weird that my GF would constantly tell me how much she loves me, but the next minute saying how much she hates how nonchalant I am. Just because I'm always chill and calm, and she worries about every little thing.
@@ST-yc7ujYou are right on! And in the mean time they twist you up mentally bad. It males you suspicious of everyone in life. I have serious trust issues. However, I pray for a keen spirit of discernment and I'm learning to spot them right away and deal with them only if neccessary.
@@patrickfyall3536 Hi Patrica. Your ability to stay chill and calm in this crazy world is trully a gift. Cherish it and don't let anyone take that from you. A narcissistic will see that, hate that in you and alternately steal that from you. Part company with them ASAP. Be blessed..
@@powermovement247 🙏🏿. Preciate the kind words.
Omg you are so right. My ex Narc lived his life in a continuous loop. Constantly creating the same bad experiences from one person to the next. Once I realized the pattern he became quite predictable. Any attempt to get them off the loop and you are met with anger and violence and narcissistic rage.
Very late to this but it’s so helpful to read and really digest along the healing process. “Once I realized the pattern… any attempt to get them off the loop” just goes to show that they are living life without growth in mind- be it personal or spiritual or within their relationships with others. They don’t have a desire to grow or heal and no matter how much I might want to or try to, I can’t inspire that within them. Truly the best thing to do is to detach and grow in my own direction.
@@PotterPeople7yes, that is true what you are saying, they do not want to change, my covert told me, he is like he is and wants to stay like that 😢 not giving me validation, no compliments, thinking of leaving him
Yes, they waste our time big time. One wasted 3 years. I was very anxiius tired and very depressed. Awful experience and awful creature. Good riddance.
Yes basically their behavior is “the devil they know” so they’d rather self destruct than risk opening up to anyone or anything. When they are alone between supply sources, I have noticed, they have an emptiness that knows no bounds and they feel it is unfair deprivation making them hate the world. At one point their true child developing self was rejected not only through abuse but more so neglect coupled with usually spoiling the child done by a single parent or parents that are poor or just burnt out substance users also can be left with or repeatedly molested by a caregiver or older children. This can cause the appearance of the same behavior as parental abuse / neglect because an outside abuser (happens too often ) tells child abuse is their fault and thus alienate them from their parents essentially destroying parent ability to nurture child as they are not aware.
He had me at the Narcissist hates your guts! 😖
😂
Me too
As a narc. This is on the ball. It's terrifying hearing this... and I truly wish this wasn't the case but it is true. The part where he states "when you say I love you to a narcissist it's understood as I'm about to possess you".... I've never quite understood it as that but that kind of closeness would bring dread. I'd become intimacy advoidant? All of a sudden you were too close? And it wasn't that I didn't love you or care for you but that desire to maintain or keep myself would kick in? I felt like it was like a losing of something? To love you as you love me was to lose myself and I could not lose myself?
I once explained this to my partner and he commented that that is what it means to love someone? You become vunerable? But for me it was like becoming vunerable was losing? It would make me anxious... I thought it was because I struggled to accept/believe that I could be loved unconditionally... oh gosh.
Yes, that is how I also understand Prof. Vaknin, terrifying to me, what then can we do, I love my covert and have to hold back my own emotions and truth in oder for him not to envy me and he can stay whole 😢
what a breathing, walking cancer😂
disgusting
I hope you heal up and learn to be a good partner I believe it's possible. And I believe you deserve a beautiful life. It takes too much energy to be a narcissist just chill and let everything flow It's going to be okay. ❤
Yes ! Check out psychopaths by Alan Harrington Excellent book
Dear Sam, Reading and listening to your lectures is not only profoundly informative and illuminative ~ its life altering. Your work is a complete gift of emancipation for those who would receive it, and also deeply chilling. I was aware that there was/is trauma and deep emotional pain, however your masterful and embodied examination, study and articulation of the internal world, environment, conditions, ways of functioning and experience of those with this kind of wounding (and those in their lives) is utterly heart breaking. Thank you for the work you do for all those involved and the fierce commitment you have toward other's deep learning and healing. You are an incredible example on a number of levels.
@@Roberta_Esposito looks like you should take professional help so as possible
I feel grateful and saddened; thankfulness & the chill you expressed when I listen this (& other) teaching(s) that Sam V. gives. I need the info., but it comes at a high price, & I have to take small bites...
Hhh
Hhh
Hhhhh
This is so true. story of my life with the sick narcissist I used to date. 100% true and extremely traumatizing. The envy part was so weird it felt like hate, pure hate. I believe narcissists are also psychopats, just another kind of psycho.
Yeah I think so. Also they are possessed my demons. I felt hate also and resentment till I escaped the situation
I was married to a man who was diagnosed with NPD. The best I could describe it was being with someone, an actual physical person, who fit the definition of a “residual haunting.”
Yes
And from a spiritual perspective, an NPC, non playable character, and/or energy vampire.
@@divinegalacticcolorsIt’s tempting to call them demonic, because sabotaging good times is their hallmark. It’s impossible to empathize with a shark or a “demon.”
@@brettforman1937 they're definitely posessed by something, kinda sad to watch. I had physical encounters with snakes as warnings and also dreamt of wrestling with a snake.
@@divinegalacticcolors Yes totally an energy vampire
Envy was at the core of the malignant narcissist I divorced.
Always sabotaging and destroying his targets of his never ending envy .
This is the first time that I realized that the Narcissist considers himself an "object," "The Good Object." I listened to this video several times and it wouldn't hurt to listen a few more times. May I call you a PERFECT teacher?
Envy is indeed the defining aspect of narcissism. The narcissist’s insecurities no know bounds. And as they get older, they get exponentially worse as the narcissist tries so hard to deny the humbling effects of age….I am still having an increasingly hard time understanding how they are all carbon copies of themselves….
If all behaviors are learned, and yet so similar, where are they learning these behaviors from? Why are the symptoms so identical across cultures, genders, and nationalities? No one is born with a personality disorder and no two people are abused identically yet the behavior and personality profiles of these narcissists are nearly identical. Their behavior is comprised of symptoms, not traits. That doesn’t really make sense but the pattern is there.
They are all similar across cultures because it’s a demonic spirit that is in their vessel. It’s been around for thousands of years. All this is backed up by the Holy Bible Satan was the first narcissist and very prideful. There are narcissist groups to study about the Jezebel spirit that guides them to abuse people. These spirits from Satan’s kingdom need bodies to do their dirty work. If you were born into an unsaved in Jesus name family they gave the Jezebel that familiar spirit will look for a mate with similar spirit 😢. The Bible says in Jesus name to rebuke them get deliverance. These kind of wicked spirits only come out if the person wills it out God can not deliver the person if the person is in agreement with the demon. There are many facets to the operation of this evil spirit . It studies you😮.
Jesus said, these types only come out with prayer & fasting. Amen, it is so ❤
She often talked about envy, kinda obsessed at some times. Protect from envy, feeling everybody is envious (me asking inside: envious of what?)
Seeking perfection but messing it all up.
Obsessed with beauty, talking about surgeries, while not listening to my very intelligent nutrition tips.
Well here we are now, I had to end this relationship as all hope left.
All that is left to do is pray. She kinda lost her marbles so I had to block.
All this envy & hate directed outwards, all energy was lost in that, and the possibility of building something together was obliterated in that.
@@dominus6695Yeah it’s awful. Be glad you got out and stay strong ❤
They certaily never needed to go to the hell, because they already live in there, during their lives.
The tragedy is that they constantly do the projection, so the victims have to do experience what the narcissist feeling inside.😢
Exactly....some of them ARE Hell and, the most pure EVIL on this planet...
Creatures we sure have to run away from - very far away 😱
Yes
Mine passed 7 months ago. Brain tumor which I was unaware of illness. He humiliated me until the end while he knew he was dying!
@@Jetmab04God yes being with him was like being in hell They project all their insecurities and bs onto u it’s awful
@@lisaz4411 Absolutely! I divorced mine 35 years ago, left the country 25 years ago and, he and his wife + other former family members, STILL abuse and steal from my identity - blessed by the authorities over there - sad, sad little old Colonial.. 😰
Thankfully there are other and, better places but, very far from the point here... Some countries and their people clearly never developed... and, as my friends here tell me "be happy you got out of there" which I am but, there are still people there I love to bits but may have to accept as lost forever... A harsh punishment for being alive but.... 😰
Sam, I am watching a show called Intervention for drug addicts. I think there totally needs to be a show about intervention into families of narcasists! (I'm former BPD)
I agree.
I'm the family scapegoat and working on bpd and your videos have been a complete game changer in learning my faults and behaviors as well as recognizing ng patterns. I am so grateful.
It’s literally insanity. Pure and simple insanity.
Some people were damaged early on in a really bad way
O
Look
Completely agree, it’s painful to be the victim ... it’s impossible to get out
Precisely. Insanity. 🎯
INSANITY all the way, pure & simple, very charismatic, when you meet them,
they would destroy you if you allow them to do it. Very sad individuals, NO CONTACT FOREVER
Narcissists are never remorseful
That's because they are not able to distinguish right and wrong, and absence of empathy care and compassion blocking feelings of guilt, regret, remorse. The only goal they have is protect their ego and image, even if it will cost somebody's life. Thank you for comment!
In stage three they fail. This is a kinda sad reality to accept. They are a broken record. They repeat this cycle over & over again. They are stuck. It would be magical if we could take them by the hand & give them the trust to believe that they are worthy the way they are, then they could give up the envy & embrace & share the good with us. Wishful thinking
More like a nightmare... Narcs want your soul cause they DON'T HAVE ONE...they inject hatred into everyone, that's all they bring to the table, if all narcs were orange, we could see 'em coming...
@@dianematlock7922 amen and amen
@@dianematlock7922 Every one has a soul, just that narcs are not in touch with theirs
@@sdelperdange7375 Not my problem...Iam not the reason their life sucks...it started before they met me....these are grown males, that have addiction problems, and rejection infection...and their joy is giving me their anger...life is an inside job... I love my life without them in it... I treat them like I did BEFORE I MET THEM...NOT AT ALL..
@@sdelperdange7375 true that's my son
The puzzle comes together…after being dismissed from our relationship, it was difficult for me to understand what was happening. It was revealed to me spiritually, most of what is shared in this video. I was easy prey for the predator, as I was grieving the death of my husband and loss of over 40 years of a satisfying marriage. I could see the dysfunctional game playing of this charming suitor only when looking back, and it was truly a blessing of
rescue to be free from the emotional pain of loving a sexually frustrated narcissist. Thank you for all your videos. I only wish I had seen them a couple of years before.
Me too, met my covert when I was grieving the death of my husband of 33 yrs, a good marriage, I fell for a covert, still with him, he only Sees himself, no compliments, says he loves me though
Get out! Run for your Life!
The only way to really live a narcissist is to let him keep his perfect object and exit the insane asylum.. this explains everything he loved me and had complete contempt for me at the same time.. its such a sad reality for them... but bears are cute you just dont want to cuddle them because they will eat you.. same thing as a relationship with a narcissist
Absolutely. It's incredibly sad. I love my Narcissist very much. It breaks my heart and I still haven't left. I used to think it wasn't completely Narcissism. There was more to him. He is so talented and charming. Then there is the devil side i can't stay with. He kicks me out every time we fight so now, I just leave on my own. Even packing and taking items home. I'll be completely out soon, and when I am... I'm never going back. No contact. Ever again. 😪
Tiffany Tisby I know I’m in it to....
My narc couldn’t feel. He violently rejected affection. I tried so hard to show him that I was a safe place. It was draining. It was exhausting. It was stressful. It was useless. I gave up on him mentally before I left physically. He stole so much of my life with his lies & his nasty behaviors. I realized it was never love. I was supply. It was control.
@@ImDemanding I am living in it now
@@donnahrodgers5025 If you’re here then you’re healing & growing smarter & stronger. It’s only a matter of time before you leave. I wish you well. Stay sane. Stay alert. xo
Self defeating, self denial, self destructive! 32:13 they deny other people happiness! Envy is the driving force! The good people are the good objects?! It can only be own by the narcissist and no one else! Or you are a threat! Narcissist always shutdown during intimacy! You are soooooooo right! Wow!
Dang. Months of sex denial, kisses vanished or became even more mechanical & forced. Discarded and hoovered in again time after time. Sad thing to go through. Switching to being grateful for all of the experience.
This lecture is a godsend. This weekend, I broke up with my narc during his final rage at the apartment we've shared. I'm shellshocked but your videos are helping me better understand how he operates, the hell our relationship became and how I can put myself back together. Thank you Dr. Vaknin!
Big big hug, Erica 💝
Look up HG Tudor UA-cam, one of best like Dr Vaknin. Mind blowing
Dr. Vaknin,
Relating with someone with a personality disorder is always a " catch-22." Want good feeling? In them ariss resentment or some type of needed supply to take away energy. Want collaboration to feel together/united? Some lotus of control arises to demolish the bond. Want a feeling of communion with others? Grooms to then triangulate others into the scenario.
As you mention NO-CONTACT is best! Additionally, any movement otherwise I truly believe puts one in touch with deep seeded unconscious child like behavior to be abused/rejected by the maternal/paternal figure as we seek out approval. Thank you for all you do brother.
They may as well be considered terminally ill… it seems there’s little to no hope for them to ever heal. They leave a path of destruction…it’s actually quite sad when you’re away from it or not emotionally invested.
The loop explanation is spot on. Also the envy.. I remember recognizing that- and it shocked me!
Makes me realize how vitally important it is to be a healthy parent …
I know the men I’ve dated whom I’ve suspected to have narcissism ALL had really inappropriate, unhealthy relationship’s w their mothers. It’s so weird.
How is this ever to be fixed?
What she said…. Do we need to look at mothers? If you remove them form the mother is the damage already done?
@@Kaligod3
The removing/separating from the toxic caregiver ( be it mother/father) would have had to happen at a very early age (2-3) BEFORE the symbiosis occurred.
That typically doesn’t happen because the family system is usually corrupt from the head on down. Someone from the inside would have had to understand the dynamics make proper adjustments.
Sad affair. That’s why we need to educate our children ourselves. Folks can only do better when they know better.
After starting my journey through narcissistic abuse I have been enlightened and helped greatly by your lectures on narcissism by understanding the constant battle of thoughts inside the mind of an afflicted narcissistic person. It has also helped me see and open my mind to my own patterns of co-dependency because I wish to find a way to be at peace with myself as well. I wish there could be an understanding of confusing thoughts in a narcissist that could allow an acceptance of being and in turn have them relate to people and themselves in a healthy way. Anyway, I thank you and look forward to listening to many more videos.
The ambivalence is imminent. Interesting way how you take us through the maze. They detest our guts & still want to profit of it. Their contemptment makes them trip & their selffestruct button bursts out. They believe they r not loved & will be abandoned if they fail. The empath kinda fears in a similar way; they think they need to earn love, to invest to receive, love is conditional & if they do not perform right they will be abondoned. We are similar in various ways & still different in the outcome. Ty for your input!
OMG, all of this is SO true! I remember the exact moment my ex-narc started to show "jealously" towards me....and it was when other women complimented me on something. I almost couldn't believe it the first time I saw the change in his demeanor. In hindsight, it was deep within the devaluing/discarding stage but I had NO CLUE what was going on. I COULD NOT WRAP MY MIND AROUND IT.....or anything from that point forward. Until I did figure it out. It's so gross, I hate thinking about it! As much as I think I will never get sucked back up into a narcissist's game, I find myself HERE with Professor Sam Vaknin, hanging on his every word :) You can't help but love him!!! Am I wrong ladies?!?! Seriously?! Thank you Prof. Vaknin for all your insight! It has helped me tremendously🙏 and now I have a UA-cam crush☺
Yes professor is comical and witty and obviously genius
"Could not wrap my mind...."
Yeah... I had never experienced the feeling of being so surprised and confused yet I couldn't understand what was happening even if it was logically explained.
I hope you are feeling better.
*hugs*
Yes, very smart and very charming. Totally. But knowing what I know now, I’m not sure my suspiciousness of any highly charming person will ever allow me to lower my guard again. I’m like “what’s he got there up his sleeve? Why is he doing this? It can’t be altruism”
Dear Prof, you are deep, insightful, generous in the way that you share your knowledge with us; and painfully, so very painfully honest. I am binge-listening to your uploads and my respect grows with each one. Thank you.
Me too… can’t stop watching the professor!
I'm only about 16 mins into this video. I recently had a break-up with a CN and have also experienced narcissism in my family. The CN I just broke up with: he absolutely idealised me as very much perfect and angelic on falling in love with me. He definitely internalised me and made me this part of him that was 'privileged' to be a part of him. I felt very drained by the relationship, but also fell in love anyway (talked to him a lot, over lockdown). I didn't understand why I felt tired and drained and in love at the same time. Anyway. - Yes, he suffers from suicidal ideation any of the time he is not in a relationship. As he started to see that I'm human and not 'perfect' and that he would have to make efforts to express his feelings with me/have healthy communication after his love-bombing, his suicidal ideation crept in again and he discarded me in a very cruel way. I see that I guess he suddenly got to this weird point of ambivalence, as if out of nowhere. I still cared about him greatly and was open to communicating, but he just shut off as if his feelings had gone or he wanted them to go (because he wouldn't/couldn't actually open up). And yes, he has no sense of self. I guess he takes what little sense of self he has from people around him. - And I apparently wasn't enough to fill in what he lacked anymore because I stood up for myself.
The triggers that lead to disengagement are the amazing qualities that we have. I started to refuse to walk on eggshells and I wished to only share my thoughts and be intimate with my partner that has narcissism. Admitting our own feelings to them like love, sadness, or something that shows our humanity and not being perfect, and as we admit to that which is normal, is met with anger and disgust and we are trash to them. So FU’d up!
I hope you are doing well. I broke up with mine about a month ago. I was ALWAYS exhausted. My mistake was going into it trying to be what I wasn't, or perhaps that's what saved me. Since I now feel like I didn't ever love him, I never knew him. I got to know myself more to through him so in a way I used him as well. I know that's weird but I was raised by a narcissistic mother and have long since left most of my family in search of a place I can be myself. I was practicing being more feminine and submissive which he absolutely loved, but I discovered I still struggled with codependency. However I still wanted intimacy, like you. So mine also saw he had to make more effort and began discarding me. I picked up on it at the end and on the final attempt to hoover me I mirrored back to him all his imperfections, on purpose of course because I had had enough and I was done with my mask as well, funny right? I didn't realize he was a narcissist until a few days after I blocked him on everything and actually its helped me in a way because the whole relationship I couldn't understand why I had felt bad, like something wasn't right... and that I felt alone, like there was no intimacy. I didn't trust my gut since the beginning of the relationship and I'm kicking myself for it. Many times, all the time it screamed for me to leave and I did break up with him MULTIPLE times where he immediately convinced me to go back and slightly changed in some ways. But ultimately he could not go very deep, he would drown . Also funny enough I love robots and I always would say that I wanted a robot boyfriend. well I got him, he was not human. I learned about the concept of uncanny valley through these videos. Look it up, its weird but applies to the narc. Prof. Vaknin does not sugar coat anything and I'm doing the same. Its opened my eyes wider but I don't feel distrusting of people I just know to be myself and trust my gut, its never failed me. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your experience.
@@hunbundoe7627 you sound like me, right down to mom.
@hunbundoe7627 I didn't trust my gut either...there were so many flags, but I ignored them.
He made me feel so special.
How are you these days? I hope you have moved on and are doing much better.
*hugs*
Your presentations are an art form, so poetic and well structured. Thank you for sharing this immense knowledge ❤
These videos have been so enlightening as far as the "mother" wound. My ex idealized his mother so much. Put her on a pedastal and called her a "saint" because she put up with abuse from his father for 50 years and never left. He told me how he hated his father as a child and held a knife to him at 12 years old because he hit his mom. He grew up to be just as abusive as his father and expected me to be the "saint" that his mother was! Of course I fell from the pedastal when I refused. I realized that deep down he was very angry at his mom for tolerating the abuse for so many years. He actually had no respect for her at all. When I told him this one day (during an argument about why I wasn't a good woman like his mom) he went into a rage so bad, I feared for my life! This happened a few years later when I brought up how abusive his dad was to him in his childhood. He could never come to terms with the good/bad aspects of either of his parents. It was so crazy and sad.
I wondered why I was always not enough, feeling dirty or strange and weird in some way. I always knew that the people around me were not right but I couldn't put together the two to make sense of why I felt so ineffective when inside I also didnt. Not many people stand up to these bullies because they might look charming or shiny on the outside so the victims dont feel strong enough and there is something wrong with them. The ugly truth!!
I told him off the other day. Very sick individual. Draws in and hoovers and then says later, “but it’s not you I have my heart set on.” I’m like, “Then LEAVE ME ALONE! This is all you! It is wrong to tell me you love me and then discard me and tell me it’s not me.” He responds with “I want peace.” Disgusting.
RUN RUN RUN
My husband would cause trouble then say he wanted peace? Twisted said all I did was make problems when he created the problem!!
Lol we’re you and I dating the same guy 😮😅 jk bc he said the same damn words
25:13 Sam is 100% correct about the baby viewing mother as an all good object and not as an all bad object. The baby would traumatize itself if it viewed the mother as the all bad object because of how dependent it is on her, and it instinctually realizes this.
and this kinda plays out later in life as well through sexual relationships because they have a tendency to project that all goodness upon the other until they end up projecting their all bad upon them
Ja, I regognized one day when my boyfriend at my place, he said he wanted some juice and I said-its in the fridge! He exclaimed "I don`t know how to open the fridge?" And just starring at me like defenceless boy/todller. This is only one example. That is why I understood something is wrong with this person.
Damn yeah ! I wanna coffee . He said . So go and make it . I don’t know how . Once I made it and didn’t put the milk on yet because our daughter started to cry so I told him to just put a milk himself . He got angry . He dropped that coffee into the sink and left the house . After silent treatment and all I said stop acting like a baby ffs . Damn ! I wish to know who I was dealing with before . All I feel sorry for our little baby girl but I won’t let him destroy Her
I have just discovered these videos. So enlightening. Even though I’ve been in therapy now for two years after having two back to back narcissistic relationships, I still have so many questions as to why they are the way they are. Therapy has definitely helped me understand why I allowed myself to be used over and over again, but these videos help me better understand overall.
Wow! This all makes sense now! Thank you for explaining it. It’s really helpful but it’s so sad.
It’s been 16 months now and I’m still trying to heal!
He simply broke my heart so many times…
Everyone thinks he’s wonderful and he told everyone that he loves me and wants to be with me…
Yet no one knows about the secrets lies and deceit!
I’m keeping it all to myself as it’s easier! I’ve used too much energy and numerous sleepless nights over him someone that I loved dearly and thought I’d be with for the rest of my life…!
I feel rather sad to think he’s never had a bond with his mother and he was left on his own crying his eyes out! Sad! All I wanted to do was to love him and wanted him to feel my love for him.
He very secretive, lies and deceived me! He simply broke my heart time and time again. The intimacy between us was unusual very seldom 5/6 weeks even tho I only used to see him a two half days a week!
I hope this makes people work on themselves and be kinder to the people who truly love you rather than destroy them!
I was married to a psychiatrist who was given enemas until 2nd grade. His mother was pretty sick. As soon as I became pregnant he hated my guts. He ultimately had me "banished" I had just owned a portrait studio. I was so afraid of him I believed I could go to prison for his constant lies and criminal filings. I had to leave town for 2 years. He destroyed me. Nobody really gets what forced, involuntary, unconstitutional exile does to a person because it never happens!
Take back your life, my dear! Don't let the narc control any aspect of your life. An attorney could help with a gag order or slander charge.
@@KhassiaKthank you!
It happens more than you know. I'm so sorry. It happens to me everywhere I go. And not just from intimate relationships/flying monkeys blah blah. Community. Narc stalker lil biyaches. Everywhere. Co-intel-pro. Spiritual warfare on pop rocks and steroids...brainwashed dummies that never took the time to become free so they are slaves to that psychological dominion. To their own nightmare for which No dreams may come. They're the zombies that Amazon references in their contract clause listed in their privacy policy or some shit. Blaze the light. The light will prevail!!
You really should get with Hollywood and make a movie out of this mess. I going and growing through this divorcing the narc the worst ten years of my life.
FREEDOM IS CALLING, Dear❣️
How enlightening. Thank you, Prof. Sam Vaknin. Your depth of this subject is greatly appreciated and is a service to those seeking understanding.
Agreed, we are living in a narcissistic landscape
I have a family member who exibits these behaviors and it's devastating to be on the receiving end of the rage, when logic and rational thinking, give and take doesn't exist. Instead you are punished severely and the next day they act as if nothing happened and heaven help you if you challenge them on their behavior because they did not do anything wrong. And sometimes this rage appears to me like a toddler having an illogical tantrum but it's terrifying when the behavior is exibited by an adult, who was seemingly sane but is now someone else and your feelings mean nothing and you are crushed under them like some insignificant insect with no identity or rights.
555
There is usually a pattern of behaviour, learn to recognise it and enforce boundaries (e.g retract your energy) before it escalates. They have to know that you won't tolerate the shouting. You may have to be selective about how and what you communicate to them. You also have to release them all the time and expand yourself so there is nothing for them to think they need to control...they despise weakness. You cannot be close to a narcisstic person without severely harming yourself. It's thier agenda and thier needs first, always. They never make mistakes and will turn any conversation to be right....They will rewrite everything because they are good and if you don't agree it is because you just dont understand.
Nailed it
It is definitely Groundhog Day, exactly like the movie. Add a hamster wheel in there and that about sums it up. It’s also like watching someone repeatedly bag their head off a wall and constantly complain of a headache.
The neglectful or abusive behaviors of narcissists reawaken old wounds that a parent inflicted on a person (anywhere from 1-9 years of age as Sam states) because of how similar their patterns in behavior are. The subconscious mind is seeking to recreate the main traumatic event that the child had with its parent THROUGH the narcissist. So this is why many people become overly attached, obsessed or glued to certain narcissistic people but it all has to do with resolving a core trauma issue.
So how do you get through it so you don't have to recreate the trauma again? Any advice?
Well said, James. And Narcissists are keen observers of only those people who still have unresolved childhood wounds. In Narc-speak, the Narcissist can then anoint themselves as Godlike healers.
@@angiethor Through reprogramming yourself. Recognizing and changing your own patterns.
Now when i reflect on some many things he said, it's often related to power and possession. things he usually said to me "remember, I'm always mine" "I'm not gonna do this to satisfy you and give you power", "I really don't like you drinking wine out of my glass, it's like you're marking your territory"...
This is why he didn't need me around. He had internalized me.
I would ask mine, why, while on his two three month long trips, he would not check in on my every day, if he missed me, he said he didn't because he and I were one. .. now, it makes sense. he internalized me.
This is extremely disturbing, its like knowing theres a clone out there of you, made without your knowledge with a full life of its own. So insanely creepy I feel disgust.
My last partner told me that after surpassing 6-8 months of dating there will be no more choice for me to get out of relationship. I said there is always an option to leave. She disagreed and said at that point for her she becomes so attached that she can't let go and views her partner as her object (literally told me this). She said she will do anything to keep or get back her object and told me she had destroyed what previous partners love most after they had left her for someone else, in one example a prized antique vehicle. I coincidentally also have an antique vehicle, i broke it off, but every time i heard wind i was looking out my window to see if she was out front destroying. She hasn't but i believe that's only bc i found out she was maintaining multiple relationships and cheating and she doesn't want me to tell her previous partner about it (who i thought was her most recent ex). She said she would destroy my things if i did, i believe he gives her money as he's rich and lives out of state. So i walked away, he can have her (or think he does)
Waw! What a phenomenal lecture.
Unbelievably accurate 100%
Fascinating.
Thank you!
OMGosh this is my mom, and dad!
No-one explains it the way you do, you have taught me so much, thank you!!
I can’t believe how accurately this matches my experience. He self destructed.
Thank you so so so much for taking your time to share this information with others !
this was very enlightening. i agree, i think its the opposite of melanie klein. makes more sense to me because I have this very deep feeling of being "bad" and I always have. i struggle to paint my mom out as bad, even though she was completely neglectful and abusive. thanks for sharing your wisdom as always, Sam. you are truly a gem. don't care what anyone says. I see you and I admire your drive and your passion for psychology. take care
It’s not desirable to look at this (these) behavior(s). It takes a certain mindset to try to understand this.
Because there are so many Ns (& CNs), this MUST be dealt with. Because there are so many empathic people, this MUST be dealt with (because ‘no contact’ & ‘gray rock’ are needed).
So I am glad Sam V. speaks so much on these topics...
This hits so close to home. When I speak to this person I can see in his face how he has no respect for what I’m saying. I can him picking me a part. There is no love or understanding in his eyes. This morning, he showed me something on his phone and the very girl he cheated with multiple times popped up. It’s happened over and over. I just immediately broke down. Its happened so many times. It just hit me all at once that this would never end. His response was “you aren’t doing anything for me anyway”. He was so angry that I was upset and used the most random stuff to argue that I shouldn’t be upset. He even said that I was ungrateful for the food he bought. He said I should be grateful 🥲 I never even accused him of anything, I just sat there with my mind racing trying to process how this is my fault. He said that I didn’t have anything to offer him so he blocked my number and broke things off.
This makes SO MUCH SENSE!!! THANK YOU.
I completely believe the child bad/mommy good example because I witnessed an older narcissist ex always defended his mother who only gave conditional love. It was so sad to see a grown man who was truly still a child on the inside and having to walk away to save myself from them. Love these videos!
i agree. seeing grown men behave like children not as a joke, but it being their natural state is sad. sad that there's so many of them now. what are these types going to teach the next generation? to become like them?
The problem is not actually that the love was conditional. All love is, strictly speaking, conditional. Altruism and unconditionality are self-defeating paradoxes. The problem is perfectionism as a defence against ambivalence, just like Vaknin says on the video.
So funny! I love the humor that accompanies this lecture! Thank you!
Another brilliant, highly insightful video. Thank you, Sam, this is by far the best, deepest and most useful content I've found on narcissism and other mental illnesses.
"The envy is stronger than the sexual drift !" , he allways quoted.
I see Now why he loved/liked that quote So much.
Some serious talk here. Now I understand and connect the puzzle of my past relations.
This perspective is profound. So basically the Narc does not believe he/she is worthy of love and when he/she does start to feel like they “love you” they destroy it.. Self destruction is within their nature… Sad story.
Can a narcissist ever really come to terms with and acknowledge that their childhood/mum was bad? I think the most difficult thing I have experienced is that you cannot really establish which parts of the narcissist are real and which are not..
My narc mom is 70yo and she adores/idolizes her parents (deceased long time ago). My narc golden boy brother is 44yo and adores my mother though he has realized something is wrong about her. My brothers is the most damaged of the 3 adult children.
Yes, they can. I know one who is totally aware of his own disorder and how his mother caused it. But definitely don't count on most narcissists being aware. The denial is huge on multiple levels.
@@mudskippa8958 As Dr. Vaknin himself is aware.
Mine said her mom treated her like shit. She was the ugly duckling so to speak.
WOW! Thanx for the reality check! Yes, open the secret doors! You're helping me so much, and I'm sure others too......
As a borderline, your videos are giving me a sense to live. People like you are gold for a borderline coal soul.
Thank you so so much for this words of wisdom and knowledge.
Working on it and your videos have really cracked open all the answers to my whole entire life! Thank you.
When he said people have claimed to feel non existent anymore when loving, living etc with a narcissist. That’s how I’ve start feeling after 3 years of being with my Now ex bf. Started feeling like who am I anymore.
I am listening to the first 7 minutes now and I resonate so much with that. I have borderline, but sometimes there are things like this that is so much me. Am I a covert narc? I do have empathy, mostly a lot of it, and sometimes I do know I am a bit egoistic or when I demanded love from previous partners that was narcisisistic I see now. And after all of "healing" / working on/ developing/etc. I still feel those things, I am not acting outrageous anymore, I am kind and loving towards others even if it hurts me to see someone go. It is killing me inside tho, thinking that I need to perfect myself to urn love, to dare to try something carreerwise. And always keep on seeing the result of "not being good enough" I can tell myself 10000x that it is just my ego, that I am in fact good enough, that my time will come, etc.. but then I feel triggered by someone ignoring my text for a week and in moments I am crying out loud uncontrollable.. till I am calm again
And try the next day to be kind to myself again. Sometimes I wonder if it is stupid from me to still belief I will ever heal and have a normal functioning stable life and relationship. But then, that is the only thing I dream of, I have no other choice then to belief it is possible because it is the thing that keeps me alive.
that was very brave of you 👏
Thank you for your message. That is correct, I needed to accept my flaws and imperfections and that it didn't mean that I was unloveable.. but is was me who needed to be telling myself that I will love me trough tick and thin. I tried before so much but now with the right mentors I am that far. It is a wise decision that you take, to not date untill you embrace the teaching.
Have you found someone to guide you?
Now we are more than a year later, and a lot have changed. I have been going to therapy and did a healingcourse that I invested in. Wich allowed me to love myself more and learn to feel emotions and speak about them. I do not see me as all bad or not good enough anymore, I learned to be vulnerable and speak about my triggers when that pain comes up, it is not tied to my identity but simply a residu from the past traumas. Now I have a steady job and a steady loverelationship. I notice I do still have this fear of failure and I envy that what I love in others at the same time. Here is still work to do, to not close my heart but to keep it open and learn. To dare to fail in order to grow and develop talents, to learn to stay consistent. I am also able to accept the good and the bad in others and notice most times the bad characteristics come when people are in stress. I am able to forgive after conflict. In the middle of conflict I do raise my voice and think I am right, later when we are calm I can see both perspectives.. no one is fully right. We all have what is important for us individually. I learn everyday, I practice when it comes to autonomy of myself and others. We all have our ways to do certain things and non of it is perfect. Also I fell in love with my partner when he said " I am not perfect" I love the fact that he owns it and dares to be vulnreable. I admire him so much and learn from him everyday.
I agree with you regarding the child internalizing the bad mother and externalizing the good. That makes more sense in my humble opinion. Thank you for your posts. Very eye opening.
Wow, thank you, 40 years old , text book narcissist alkaholic, ruined my fiance, sleeping in a car, that all just hit me... wow, thank you
I was the "best" friend (as he called me and kept calling me) of a narcissist. I think he somehow idealized me because since I have traits of Asperger, I guess I came across as a "cold" lacking of empathy character. He thought in these black and white coded values, I was either with him and an extension of himself or against him. When he met people and made me get to know them, he would immediately antagonized them or whispered gossip about them.
53:42 Bottom line is he is insaine! So sad to me. I was told i was the only woman he could not control. I feel like J low in the movie THE CELL she tried to save the mentaly ill criminal by going into his mind and save the little boy he was but could not. Its so sad he was so abused but as much as i loved the illusion and always will he is gone to me. I tried to save him but could not. Thank you for giving me this information this will give me the closure i still needed. 😢50:20 50:21
My narc hated his mom until she died. But, now I find him more at peace yet not completely. He is still explosive if things don’t go his way. He never talks about her and moves away when she is mentioned. Doesn’t go to her grave.
"my narc".. As if hes a puppy. Why dont you heal your own codependency and start a healthy relationship with a healthy individual? You cant love someone who is no existent. A ghost..
@@FSMusic86how brutal of u man these are people too, imagine ur partner has cancer and u just leave them for a healthy person
@@thwooop9994 Bad comparison. A normal partner is capable of love and empathy. If my partner has cancer, I will stand by her side because I know she loves me and I love her too. And she would do the same vice versa. But how can you love someone who doesnt love you, has no empathy and doesnt care about you. If YOU are the one who has cancer, they are gone. People who say "my narc" and "I love them" live in fantasy
This is fascinating...thank you.
And that's exactly what she meant when she told me "you have wiped me from the inside" the morning after her first narcissistic injury acting out, only weeks into the relationship. I have somehow gained access to the good object inside her and she just couldn't stand it.
Thanks again for the mind saving insights, prof. Vaknin.
Thank u.
I was crying after feeling so rejected from my ex and I understand so much more now . Also I can relate to some of these issues within myself !
What made you relate to some inner issues? Abd what are these? I am with a covert and I cry a lot because of unknown inner issues which he triggers I guess. He is kind to me.
I think it’s very tiring to be a narc…just listening to how they are on the inside gives me a headache…wow
They have such twisted minds 😅! One gets mentally sick just from trying to understand them.
The narcissist in my life told me he thought 'everyone around him were simulations he had invented in his mind! That he had created everything he saw and that we're all in an alternate reality. i thought it just seemed like 'A Black Mirror' concept, but now I know it's part of internalizing the external objects. Others were just extensions of his creations!
It's like this : I get no attention when I insult the person like crazy I get positive attention . Surprises me. The reason I insult is not because I want to. But I get driven to a point of madness from his mindgames it's a bit like borderline narcissism where I'm the borderliner .. the worse I behave I don't know how it's possible the better reactions I get. The better I behave the worse reactions I get..never understood this...
So true. I ended up with the “can’t beat em join em” mentality and after being 1000% faithful and honest started to do as she was doing me. Cheating and lying. After getting caught several times, the aftermath was always the best and happiest times of our relationship. For short periods of time of course, then back to normal. Point is when I was good to her she did me dirty and when I was like her she was the best to me. Pure insanity.
@@JohnWick-ug6wx so how are things between both of you now
It is very easy to understand, you give him fuel whether positive or negative, you supply him to fill his 😢 void
Thank you for the most academic research truth about narcissists. Amazing 🙏Thank you 🙏
Like you , actually. I have listened to your videos and talks...when I studied Psychology at UB I found my professors unapproachable as I was so young. I didn't graduate with a BA in Psych, but it is an everlasting pleasure and passion I will have evermore
Thank you for your interesting talks.
5:37
So when he realizes there is another good object outside of himself, then does he realize he’s not perfect?
The narcissist I know said he wants to die at age 55. We are in our 30’s. I asked him if he was afraid of looking like his older self. He looked shocked I said that. Oh and now he calls me old. Go figure lol. His ego can’t handle growing older. He’s soo abusive and puts me down constantly. I met him in school. I graduated and he didn’t so I think he literally hates me now. Sad part is I love him. It’s the dumbest love I’ve ever had. Now, he literally devalued the hell out of me, called me selfish because I’m taking care of my health, and then discarded me with no warning. Hopefully I can continue to build myself and when he returns I have the strength to not respond.
Minute 43:00 is exactly what I felt and told the narcissistic partner I had. I wasn’t allowed to be anything. Those were my words to him.
this man is an angel for the help he has given me
Now I understand why she never wanted to hold hands. I was the only one to say I love you. Now I understand why she started to hate me when I concentrated on building myself up. Why everything I tried to build got destroyed in dramahell. Envy, wipe me off.
What a mind-blowing lecture! So beautifully deconstructed.
I greatly appreciate your teachings when delivered directly, to the point! (straight- jacket).
"The narcissist hates your guts. He hates your guts, vehemently."
It doesn't get any clearer than that!!
This type of administration leaves no opportunity for me to explain the truth away.
It SMASHES my rose colored glasses.
Thank You, Sir!!!
I agree with Vaknin's explanations more than the one from Klein. It makes more sense considering the current cultural zeitgeist.
I inadvertently opened the door, but now I'm on my way out of the maze.
Blessed s/he who believeth.
The one I know wanted me to teach him how to love, By that time I learned and knew better to share anything with him
Thanks so much for your lecture dear Prof. Vaknin ❤, I am terrified now, I felt a bonding from my covert, but then again he withdraws emotionally, not leaving me, no, just being not as close as I wished. Now I understand that he is fighting against his own love for me projecting envy on me and maybe on himself, yesterday I asked him to valuate me more, show me, tell me that he does and he said : ich bin wie ich bin und ich bleibe so ..... I do love him deeply and he knows that, but emotionally after listening to you, I have gotten sad now, how can he ever give me what I need emotionally? He is quite nice to me and very reliable, also discusses matters .. hello from Germany, he is from Slovenia, how can this dilemma be resolved?
This is crazy you are so intelligent
A disturbing thing they do is "set you up for failure". I have been in situations in the past where someone seems to have either offered to or been assigned to do something that included me. Some things that have resulted is : I told him he must of forgot to show up. He knew were were expecting him (not at all) why wasn't he ready? Oh, I didn't know he was out of town and scheduled ( a very) important meeting thinking he would be here. And the list goes on. They even will try to "insert" themselves into others relationships, friendships etc. pretending to be "oh so helpful" but instead setting things up for "near misses", embarrassments, missed opportunities etc. It seems like a cult since some phrases seem to be common like "right under nose" "You will never get back what we took from you" "we made you look like a complete a-hole" "We made it look like your fault". These are many times one or 2 narcissists that get together and have "fun" playing with the lives of other people.
@Roy
It’s the truth, they are insane and DANGEROUS
This is how gangstalking works but on a much larger scale.
Also sounds like they feel very competitive with you and they know you are better than they are in some (or many) ways, and are trying to make you appear less than what you really are.
Thank you for the content you're providing
The funniest thing I found about my ex was she absolutely believed she loved "unconditionally". She gave me an example of how she attended her dad who was dying of cancer. Background story is - her dad was her idol and she has all her issues originating from their past history.
She didn't quite understand that she only did the things that she wanted to do in life and unconditional love requires you to put aside your own needs in order to accommodate the needs of others. To her, outside of the people she was DIRECTLY related to, everyone else was a transaction. Everything she did for me was what she wanted to change in me. But she convinced herself that she was PERFECT when it came to loving.
The only thing I could actually count on 100% from the narc was when I specifically asked NOT to do something, he would as soon as I tuned or left the house. I would make lists for grocery or projects with detailed instructions, he would get only half the lists or never even not read. 4 yrs later... countless requests asking many things, nothing is completely finished. Occasionally he would take action and make effort after fights. It was only to justify he works hard demanding praise for actions. However none of the actions had any care, thought or intention behind them it was always done sloppily, lazy and wrong. The most idiotic ways, literally applying things backwards costing 2 to 5x costs & work. Never following detailed lists or instructions. He would act stupid when confronted I would be frustrated. Then he victimized himself for not getting credit approval and me being bad. I felt he was doing it purposely to spite me then realize the patterns for the next 4 years in our house... nothing I've asked him to do or fixed completely yet.