Tolkien Changed The Hobbit TWICE : The Hobbit #1
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
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This week we begin our read through of The Hobbit--but we're focusing first on how Tolkien actually evolved the Hobbit from his first edition in 1937 to a revised edition that's more in line with The Lord of the Rings in 1951 to an abandoned rewrite in 1960.
We discuss:
* The History of The Hobbit -- based on his recollection, and how it differs from what his children remember.
* The style differences in the 3 versions.
* The story differences (particularly with Gollum)
* How Tolkien's creative processes and approach might have shifted in the 15 years between publishing the Hobbit and publishing The Lord of the Rings.
In our extended episode (available for our members -- theonering.com/members) we talk about:
* Parallels between The Hobbit and The King of Elfland
* Gollums entire personality changed in the 1951 rewrite
* Was Tolkien thinking about the themes and values he wanted in the hobbit when he was just telling it to his kids.
* Is it better to read The Hobbit 1st, or The Lord of the Rings 1st?
* Do you feel like less of a Tolkien fan if you just can't get into all the notes and details in books like The Histories of Middle-earth?
🎉 To get the extended episode, become a member at theonering.com/members ($4/mo and free for the 1st month) or at Patreon (theonering.com/patreon).
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🎬 Chapters 🎬
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00:00 Intro
06:04 Reading one chapter per week
09:26 Where'd the word "Hobbit" come from
14:52 Remembering how it started
22:57 Comparing the 1951 changes to 1937
35:32 Comparing the 1950 changes to 1951
43:33 Are the revisions worse?
In a hole in the ground , i threw my Rings Of Power Season 1 DvD.
I'm not super familiar with the different versions, so I'm glad you guys are devoting some time to it 😃
"You can't just change the story because you don't like it"
Rings of Power writers: "hold my beer"
There was also a revision in 1966:
Original version of The Hobbit:
"Though their magic was strong, even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West. There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves *(or Gnomes)* and the Sea-elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and invented their magic and their cunning craft, in the making of beautiful and marvellous things, before *they* came back into the Wide World. In the Wide World the Wood-elves *lingered in the twilight **_before the raising_** of the Sun and Moon; and afterwards they wandered in the forests that grew beneath the sunrise. They loved best the edges of* the woods..."
The Hobbit, Flies and Spiders
1966 revision:
"Though their magic was strong, even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise. For most of them (together with their scattered relations in the hills and mountains) were descended from the ancient tribes that never went to Faerie in the West. There the Light-elves and the Deep-elves and the Sea-elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned, and invented their magic and their cunning craft, in the making of beautiful and marvellous things, before *some* came back into the Wide World. In the Wide World the Wood-elves *lingered in the twilight **_of our_** Sun and Moon, but loved best the stars; and they wandered in the great forests that grew tall in lands that are now lost.They dwelt most often by* the edges of the wood..."
The Hobbit, Flies and Spiders
See The Annotaed Hobbit
Also, for example:
"In the third edition of 1966, Tolkien changed the tomatoes to pickles (see pp. 777 & 786) but let the tobacco stand..."
The History of the Hobbit
Thanks for the direct quote! That version was done--if I remember right--to assert copyright ownership. So Tolkien made a few minor-ish changes to make that happen.
@@TheOneRingcom For the '51 edition, Tolkien had sent in some proposed changes to A&U and they were just implemented (the big one being the the changes to Riddles in the Dark), without his consultation.(At least as I recall the events, as you are reading History of the Hobbit, Rateliff may address that, I don't properly recall off hand).
For the '66 edition the revisions were done at Tolkien's direction.
The Hobbit was deliberately revised to put it in line with the so-called 'Round World' version (the sun and moon being extant, rather than created from the Two Trees, and thus more in keeping with LotR, which also has the extant sun & moon).
So actually I have found an earlier version for the word Hobbit, it is in the list of the names of fairy folk in the Denham Tracts which is a series of pamphlets printed in 1895 just in time that it could've been one of the many fairy tale books that Tolkien read while he was a kid, then forgot until far later.
Love you guys!
Aw shucks... 🙂 ...
A while ago I asked myself where, specifically, Tolkien might have read a story about "the unexpected luck of widows' sons" -- a phase Bilbo uses in his first conversation with Gandalf. The answer turned out to be 'The Red Etin', a story in The Blue Fairy Book, the first of Andrew Lang's colour Fairy Books; which Tolkien mentions as boyhood reading in 'On Fairy Stories'. There are in fact three widow's sons in the story, together with some other parallels:
-- a knife which changes colour
-- a helpful raven
-- a riddle game, which the evil Etin knows it is bound by. It also has three heads
-- the rescue of a princess
Thematically, the hero wins through because like Bilbo he is at once generous, brave, and prudent. Thus prefiguring the theme of Providence favouring those who deserve it.
The story (though presented as traditional, and told in the Scots language) is in fact a nineteenth century pastiche by two other Scottish writers, Peter Buchan and Robert Chambers. It was suggested by an older story, The Red Etin of Ulster, of which only the name has been preserved. (Resembling in this regard The Black Bull of Norroway, another story in 'The Blue Fairy Book' which is Tolkien's central example of a Eucatastrophe.)
I don't say the The Red Etin is the primary inspiration of The Hobbit. However I do think it served as a foundation, perhaps assimilated and forgotten, for the moral element as well as a few details.
Thanks for the details! We'll definitely mention this when we talk about the first chapter!
Rabbits live in holes in the ground and were probably all over the area of England where Tolkien lived ………just a thought.
Tolkien did say this, though: “It might have been associated with Sinclair Lewis’s Babbitt. Certainly not rabbit, as some people think.” …but, yes, there is a certain resemblance in the word.
It annoys me that Tolkien changed and kept trying to change his best work
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