I'm going to guess that Erik will hit 95+%. I think James Eagleman at Barbour Creek could shoot 100% on this challenge. I would put my money on him over ANYONE else on UA-cam for THIS challenge.
@@timjohnson2731 I'd give Pieter Malan from the Impact Shooting channel a pretty good chance. He has like 35 videos hunting a variety of game in South Africa (he lives there) with his precision rifles. He's done a bunch of headshots out to 350 yards and body shots much further than that. And he's a professional PRS shooter.
Honestly the other pro I think would do well is Mike Lilly from long range with the Lillies. He's an NRL hunter pro who thrives in field conditions with a precision rifle
As an experiment, I would love to see Erik shoot one of these challenges with a classic Western rifle like a T3x, with a vx3 or 5/vortex viper scope. It is by far the most relatable setup for most Western hunters. It would truly give many of us a more realistic expectation for performance. Everyone loves to talk about how it’s about the shooter, not the equipment, but I’ve never seen long range experts shoot anything much less than a competition/high end hunting setup. I believe Erik is one of the best shooters out there, but I’d be much more interested if this challenge was with an average rifle.
I agree, that 1st guy that ran the challenge with Jim was a perfect representation of the weekend warrior. Your idea would represent well the committed shooter who was willing to invest in the craft. Having Eric do the shooting takes the “shooter” out of the equation. It would be the perfect demonstration of why someone running a Ruger American and off the shelf CoreLok ammo should stay in their “inside 300 yards” lane. Too many folks fancy themselves an amazing marksman. This would give us all the ammo we need to show folks why it’s important to be realistic when hunting living animals. Good luck Eric! You’ll do great!!
That’s fair. I just would like to see a great shooter shoot with average equipment. It would really show what skill gets you vs equipment. Maybe a bonus with you shooting one of Jim’s review guns?? Looking forward to the challenge! Good luck Erik!
A 6.5CM Tikka CTR in factory configuration should be more than capable of getting this task done. If you wanted to try a light weight set up then a Razor LHT 4.5-22 would be a good option, but honestly a K318i wouldn't be impractical for this shoot. I definitely don't think either the 6x47 or 6br as setup would be "fair" for this test. If a 20lb rifle was to be used then why not game the whole thing and run a 300NM and just ignore all the wind calls.
Mils vs MOA for hunting it doesn't matter one bit. Use what you know and are comfortable with. Both of them are just angular measurements and both work the same way. Its like asking are centimeters or inches better? It depends on what you're used to and how your tools are marked. FFP has a disadvantage for close up woods hunting due to the tiny reticle. SFP is trickier to use the reticle for windage or elevation unless you're zoomed in all the way. Each has it's pros and cons so again I'd say use what you personally prefer. This challenge is going to be so awesome, I can't wait. I posted a thread about Jim's video over on Long Range Only and nobody volunteered to try it.
@@StuninRub I wouldn't say it's more accurate. It is a little bit finer adjustment, which may or may not make any difference at all on paper. 1 click on an MOA scope is about 1.57" at 600 yards while a Mil scope gives you 2.16". So it really depends where exactly you're trying to move your crosshair. Since we are talking about hunting at 600 yards in this video, a difference of a few tenths of an inch in scope adjustment will be overshadowed by the precision of your scope, the accuracy of your rifle, and your ability to shoot from a hunting position. So my original statement "it doesn't matter one bit" holds true.
Since this is basically to legitimize hunting over 600 yds. I think you should use a common rifle. If someone with your skill can’t do it with even a premium “hunting” rifle, most hunters don’t have a chance to do it consistently.
I hope that is exactly what hunters get from all this is that it’s about being a ethical hunter not some Ahole who likes taking pot shots at our precious game🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972 Thats the thing, I don't think many will get it, especially when Erik will likely do extremely well and it could actually be detrimental to the case of "ethical hunting" because most (well maybe not most but many) will likely not consider Erik's skills in wind reading and also will likely ignore the fact that he is also a very very good competitive long range / F-Class shooter both of which make the rifle aspect rather moot.
I like as much accuracy as I can get but will only use a traditional style hunting rifle. I do not really care to shoot past 300 yards on live game. Terminal ballistics count for live game. Need a bullet made for hunting for that.
Aero Solus fits the bill perfectly if you ask me! A production out of the box precision hunting rifle. You couldn’t ask for a more realistic situation than that!
I like your philosophy on long range hunting. Too many guys are shooting way beyond their capabilities and the animal pays for it. Thanks for being straight forward with hunters Eric. Be fun to see how you do on this challenge, it will be eye opening for all of us.
Erik, your "going to see what is in the safe" already blows 90% of us out of the water cuz you have the good stuff. Fan of the 6br but am used to a 16lb pack riding my mtn bike so no big. What's really cool is you outfitting a bare rifle for the challenge. Tons we can learn from your components and decisions made along the way.
It would be cool if Erik made videos along the way. How he mounts the scope, the level, and gets the reticle perfectly level. Any shooting he does to practice and learn the rifle. How he selects which ammo to use (or if he builds his own ammo, the steps in the process). Erik is a hero in my house.
I will assure you that Eric will look impressive in the event. Eric does things much different than a serious hunter would. hopefully we will be able to see the testing and process of the rifle being put together before the event. the world champ will impress !
Hope this lesson gets attention. Lots of folks think they are long range killers and need a taste of humble pie. 6.5 CM is fine for antelope out to 600 but how many people can make the shot in hunting conditions. I grew up in WY and I know what the wind does. Started out with a 30.06 at age 14 and now, at 71, use a .308. I would never attempt an elk beyond 350 with a .308. Energy drops below 1500 ft lbs very quickly beyond that. I don’t think I’ve ever taken a mule deer beyond 250 or an antelope beyond 300. Part of hunting is knowing how to get close enough for an ethical shot.
You do realize that a 6.5 with 147 eld box ammo has the same kinetic energy at 1400 as a 9mm at point blank... I still don't understand how people are out here thinking these bullets aren't lethal at extended range. If you genuinely believe that putting the barrel of a 9mm to the side of an elk won't kill them, then by all means, neither will your 308 at 500.
@@theironroad5502 Did you read my post, “6.5 is fine out to 600 for antelope”? Also, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on mule deer and elk to 350/375. Recommended energy to kill an elk is 1500 ft/lbs. 308 loses that just below 400. I grew up in WY, where the wind blows. From age 14 to when I left for the Army after college, age 22, I killed a bull elk and mule deer, every season. And yes, my dad killed more mule deer with his 30/30 than I ever will. So yes, smaller calibers do work when used at ethical ranges. Ethical range includes your ability to make accurate wind calls. I’m 71 now, but my favorite advice from my dad is still, “If you have to shoot at an animal beyond 250, you don’t know how to hunt.”
I’ve built a couple of long range hunting rifles, I started with second focal plane MOA Nightforce scopes. I now use first focal plane Nightforce scopes, but still MOA. My buddy uses MILS. Both work, you just need to be proficient and knowledgeable in whichever system you’re using. Looking forward to your build and challenge!
Hi Eric! I would love to see you shooting the same stock gun setup as the backfire troll, tikka t3x lite 300wm with real light weight hunting scope around 12 power and shooting of a backpack or shooting sticks We all know what you are capable of with a fancy equipment, we all want to see the limitations of professional shooter with a very simple and cheap gun , but elk capable power at 600yd Guys if you like my idea, please click "like" , otherwise Eric probably won't see this
I’d say as far as mils or moa it’s just what you’re proficient with but agree it should be ffp. No matter what rifle you choose, that aero precision rifle would make a great video.
About half way through this video I already had the comment written out saying “not custom tanks mate, you need a **hunting** rifle you would take on an actual hunt”. Great to see you getting a hunting rifle for the challenge!
@@ErikCortina I say, grab the last rifle you took hunting big game and go do the challenge. I reckon you always shoot better with a rifle you are familiar with so fitting out a new one puts you at a disadvantage.
Not all custom rifles are built for long range. My 2 most common hunting rifles are definitely custom rifles, neither of them are built for long range. The normal distance when I hunt is around 50 meters. My rifles are built to be easy to get on target quickly and take safe shots in such contexts. I have shot competition revolvers heavier than my 9.3x62! I have tried that rifle at 575 meters on steel. I think the deer can feel quite safe, even if you shoot at them at that distance with that equipment 😂
Eric, in 1983 I had Bill Wiseman build me a 264 Win Mag with a long throat and on a long action. It is a 1/4 MOA Rifle. It is about the same you are putting together. It made a fantastic Antelope and Mule Deer rifle. Scope is an excellent choice for Antelope. Maybe not for light unless you an illuminated reticle. Antelope is a small target at 600 yards and the wind will can be an issue. I have not had to a big game animal over 437. I would prefer to stalk.
Idaho has a 16 lb max rifle weight rule that would also disqualify the heavier rifles. Very helpful information listening to your thought process in choosing a rifle. I would love to hear what you would take on a combo mule deer / elk hunt especially caliber wise.
For caliber, a good balance of accuracy, distance, down range energy and RECOIL, the 7MM Remington Magnum is hard to beat. Especially if you hand load.
I’m glad to see you take a more practical approach to this challenge. Some states have restrictions on rifle weights, and you looking into small details makes this a good video. Can’t wait to see you try it! Post a video on how you attached the rail!!
The 13lb weight is totally fine for long range hunting. Heavy but not too much. I think mine is 13-13.5 if I remember correctly. Also looking forward to your review of the Aero action.
I’m older now and do not walk as much as I used to. So if I am in my favorite pastures, I only walk in a few miles to post up and let the rifle do the walking for me. I have a nice, lighter hunting rifle, but I find the long range rig is so nice to shoot that I take it as much as possible.
Erik, Your setup is to heavy for stalking, average hunter will go with a #2 contour weighting 7.8 to 9 pound scoped, aluminium Talley ring, 2x10x42mm to 3x15x42mm scope, second focal plane scope. Probably in the most popular 0.308 caliber with more drop and deflection. The challenge is to proof what a pro can do with a hunting set up. If you have 0.75 moa accuracy, it will be more in line with most of the good hunting rifle. If you cannot ... A lot of long range enthusiast will have to sober up. Please get out of your confort zone with 15 pound + rifle
I agree, dialing elevation is important but disagree with 1st focal plane. In hunting scenarios, I want to see a clear reticle when the scope is on it’s lowest power. Mil Dot is good and knowing average animal size- dimensions very important for Mil Dot ranging.
I think with optics for hunting, the most important thing is the hunter must know what they have and understand how to use it. They must be proficient in using the optics for the situation. Whether Mill/Mill or moa/moa, the hunter must understand and know how to apply it to the shot presented.
loved the video, lot of good take aways for the, under 200 yard hunter, who wants the ability to reach out, A. no one use a a level,1/2 a degree off level at 600 yard and you have missed, B.no one use the tripod for stability even when shooting from prone you are more stable, stable gun = a good shot. and then there is calling the wind and you are the master at that. the other thing I noticed was that all the shooters ( in the challange) came off the scop right away, a discipline your were teaching Ruger in a earlier Back fire video .... this is a lot of fun and very educational. I really appreciate all the knowledge you guys are bring to the table
I think the solus is the closest to being in the spirit of the challenge for sure, ideally an actual lightweight (sub 6.5lb rifle) scope etc. but I understand budget matters. I would love to see what a real comp rifle can do in those conditions too so shooting both would be very cool to illustrate the difference. I also think it’s very important to be shooting a HUNTING bullet actually appropriate for antelope if that’s what you’re going for. I don’t think factory or handload really matters, nor do I think components used in the handload matters price wise, just as long as that VV powder and lapua brass is paired with a hunting bullet designed for terminal effect and ethical kills
I started laughing about half way through and saying ,”God, I love you him!” when Eric said, “Some people will say that’s a target scope, not a hunting scope. Well animals are targets and we want to put the bullet where we want it.” True that! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@edwardabrams4972 that's not how antelope hunting works. which is why he's selecting the scope he's selecting. and why he asked backfire to specify an animal. I brought a 4-16 ffp on my antelope hunt and was very pleased.
Good Day Mr.Cortina, FFP is indeed the way to go in a HUNTING rifle scope with a graduated/stadiametric type reticle. However. MOA is far superior to MILS for Americans who understand inches, feet and yards. Both can work obviously, but the MATH using MOA is SOOO much easier. As a hunting example: Your deer is 600 yards out. Shooter up, Spotter ( your guide ) is up, you fire and the guide says you missed him by 15, 24 or 30 inches, using MOA the math become fast and easy, divide the range to target ( move the decimal to place to the left) and divide into the suggested miss. ( you have a 2.5, 4.0 or 5.0 MOA correction and BINGO, your second round smokes the deer) With MILS the math is much more difficult and takes a lot more time. I've yet to encounter a guide who calls the miss in centimeters, fractions of meters or meters.Keep up the great contributions to the shooting sports, you've done wonders for countless shooters. Good luck on the 100 shot challenge, that's going to be tough! We'll just have to disagree on the MIL/MOA debate. Respectfully Darrell Holland
Out in the field off hand 200yds I'm only good for 8"circle. None of my west coast elk were shot off bag,bipod or tree even. 5 seconds or less shots from ID to hammer drop. One step and they are gone,and your chance for a shot
Eric I really like your UA-cam channel and learned alot from you over the years on reloading and shooting techniques. I'm just a hunter and do not shot competitively, but I just bought a CZ America wood stock in 22 WMR and intend on signing up for the 22 shooting competitions held monthly at my gun club in the hunting class for fun and too improve my shooting skills. The reason for my post is I would like to commend you on your comment "statement " that know one should be ethically shotting at animals at that distance. Regardless of their claimed shooting capabilities. Thank you for that.
I was raised using MOA scopes so that's what I prefer and am use to. It would be to costly to switch every scope over at this point. If anyone knows what rifle to use it would be you for sure. Good luck on the challenge Erik!!
Eric, you are killing it with the content! Here's another series I cannot wait to watch. I am super curious to see how the Solus performs. I have been itching to get one of those variants for a while now. I am still kinda partial to the needs more with the prefit barrel.
Looking forward to this. Love all the vids and collaboration that have sprouted from the Rock Chuck series. I do a fair amount of field shooting and military biathlon; my personal preference is to take weight off of me rather than the rifle if I have to make a choice. Everything I've got is currently a chassis gun but I have to admit to being hugely "Foundation curious" so that's where my vote is going. Yer gonna crush it👍🏻
Erik, why not bring two rifles out to the challenge? The Aero Solus and your F-class 7PRCW world championship rifle? If the 7PRCW cannot do it 100%, then the challenge can be put to rest that it’s not achievable.
Realistically a one MOA rifle is about the most a hunter could expect. Yes you can pay $ for gun-smith or high end rifle, or get a lucky rifle. But most hunters don’t have that. Take the first rifle, we want to see what a great shooter can do with a 3/4 MOA gun. Because for most of us, that’s one of the better rifles we would ever own. Not to mention the advantages you would have with a competitive style scope. As my guess is most hunters have scopes that max out somewhere between 9 and 12 power. And the vast majority of them don’t have a rail system, or tripod.
@@ErikCortina Agreed... So to some extent I want to see you take a rifle and fail at 100% hits because it will show people they should not try it on game. None of us doubt your ability, and if they think they are better than you they are fools!
You guys are silly. This has been tested so many times. You can straight up drop them and they won’t lose zero. It’s called quality equipment. Old wives take when optics and rings sucked. Any decent $100+ set of rings and $650+ optic would be completely unphased.
A couple months ago at the range. I had my MK12 rifle with Arken scope resting on bipod on the bench. (Before people bash the Arken "cheap" junk scope, this says something). Mk12 with Magpul PRS lite stock, 6-24x50 scope and Atlas bipod, weighing 12.2 lbs. A guy walked by the bench and accidentally bumped the rifle, it fell from 42" bench, flipped as it fell and full impact was top of scope, on concrete. First thing another guy said was "I wouldn't have that rifle now". I commented, if it can't take a fall like that, I don't want it. The rifle didn't get a scratch, the scope took the full impact. The objective flip cap blew apart at the hinge, the elevation turret had a small scratch. I checked zero, still dead on. Ran the turrets out to 200, 300 & 400 shooting hanging golf balls, back to zero, still tracked perfect. Years ago, I may have had a stroke to see that rifle hit the concrete. Not the Arken scope because it wasn't expensive. But back in the day if that had been that rifle with a Nightforce or Vortex razor $3000+ scope, my heart may not have handled it, I look at things different now.
I took a Solus in a chassis to a 600 yard f-class match, in 6 CM, with a leupold mark 5, 5x25, Box Berger 105 hybrid ammo and shot 600 with 34 x's. It was cloudy, windy and on and off/on rainy. Those guns can shoot. I put a Phoenix bipod on it, and shot off carpet board, lol, if you know you know.
Eric this is a perfect excuse to build a rifle dont compromise. Spin you up a Brux for that Solus. Drop one of your barreled actions into that AG composites stock. Buy a HNT26 chassis. Carbon fiber barrel on your prs rig. So many good choices go crazy with it.
I agree with the folks who are suggesting use a rifle that is the most relatable, something you would see a lot of average hunters with. Otherwise go with the 6X47 and show that even qith the most dedicated long range gun that unrealistic for a hunter, its still next to impossible
When it comes to optics… I say use what you’re comfortable with. I’ve been an MOA guy most my life and you learn to adjust no matter which you use. FFP preferred as well at least for me.
Hello Mr. Cortina, thank you for saying something that should be said more, "animals are targets and the intention is to hit them where you intend". The BS spewed out for public consumption is so terrible for new hunters especially, that they have to sort through in order to have a rifle and ammunition that is adequate for harvesting game animals successfully. I also appreciate you mentioning that 600 yards is to far to be shooting a live animal except for very skilled and and knowledgeable people with the correct equipment. I will be watching for the upcoming video of the challenge and I have no doubts you will do exceptionally well.
Mil ffp is all we use for hunting. We tend to pick cartridges with lower wind drift for hunting open country. Helps minimize risks if wind call is off at all.
Totally agree on all counts. Personally, i do use MOA reticles because my brain has been calculating hold overs in minutes since before x-mas tree reticals were a thing. If i were not already stuck in this rut, I'd go with mil-radians. I dont think you need a $3k rifle and a $2k scope, but I'd definitely want something that was 1/2 moa or better, and I'd likely bed it into a chassis just for peace of mind. If i were starting from scratch, id likely go with an entry level bergara action and a prefit barrel with a diamond trigger. I'd look for a lightly used Vortex pst or Athlon Ares optic. For antelope, Id likely go with a 6br or 6x47 and work up some handloads. Realistically, i might be inclined to try the 6.5x47 and load it with Cavity Backs 105gr MKZ because they've been amazing in my 6.5 Grendel. Id imagine i could push them fast enough in a 6.5x47 that i wouldn't loos much on wind to the 130gr stuff.
For hunting, MOA vs MIL, mil dot vs VEPR vs Tree. . . None of that matters. If you are compitent with your equipment and you are confident with your range estimate or measurement, then any of the scope tech out there is suitable for the shot. As long as you are capable. As for me, it doesn't matter what equipment I have with me, I couldn't do much better than Military Mike did on Jim's channel. That's a tough challenge and there's no doubt in my mind it would beat any shooter.
@brianjazek7769 think so? When are you timed and forced to take a shot on an animal? When are you forced to shoot from a certain place or position? You ever tried to range a milk jug vs a deer elk or pronghorn? And how many hunts have you been on where you took 100 shots in a day?.. I've done plenty of prs matches and I can tell you this was setup like a competition
We never forced him to shoot any certain position. He could shoot any position he wanted. Just had one area where he had to get above the brush to see. Also, MOST hunts require shooters to move quickly and get a shot off before the animal is gone. That’s why we simulated that pressure with time.
@backfire your entire argument here was against "long range hunting".. ultimately the hunter is the one that decides when and if to pull the trigger. This is a disingenuous test. A hunter is never forced to shoot period. I have an email from Mike the marine that tells his side of the story.. maybe I should get his permission to post it.
Spirit of the challenge is hunting, thus the out of the box Aero Solus is definitely the right choice! Mil/MOA doesn't matter, what ever the shooter is comfortable with. Like Km/hr or MPH, the relative distance and speed is the same regardless of unit of measure.
I think you have one more option and it may be the more realistic to keep this in a hunting perspective. Having said that your factory (custom production) is close. Most hunters now who dont have 2-3k dollars to spend on a new rifle but want a custom, take their 700 Remington in x-caliber and have it tuned and rebarreled. So, take the 700 Rem in 6.5 "needsmor" put a carbon fiber wrap barrel of your choice after you tune the action. (Lug abutment, bolt lugs, bolt nose, bolt face, action face, .250" precision ground tapered lug). Then go with a lighter scope... Leupold VX-5 or 6, Manners or HS Precision stock. You end up with a 10-11 lb rifle and it will shoot lights out. I learned from one of Speedy's best students so i know you how to put a rifle together. POA Precision Rifles LLC
I think something that could make the task (perhaps) a little easier is cartridge selection, the amount of recoil vs performance of the cartridge can be a significant factor and every game animal (and distance) has a kind of "sweet spot" for cartridge selection. In my opinion, for antelope and for the ranges given, 6mm Creedmoor is almost the perfect cartridge, the 6.5Creed will certainly get the job done but you're adding either recoil or weight to the build either way. 6Creed's only downside is it has nowhere near the amount of factory ammo offerings or rifles available.
Rifle looks nice. My opinion, and it’s just me, I like SFP MOA scopes for hunting. I just can’t see enough of the reticle on FFP scopes on Low power to actually do anything with. As compared to a SFP scope on Low power being able to see and use the reticle. Just my opinion. Good luck
Seriously....please,please don't take a needsmore! If you hit every shot we'll never hear the end of it! Lol! Excited to see this happen! Glad you accepted the challenge!
As someone with a factory solus, 22” sendero in 6.5 manbun, if you have to load for it, somewhere around 43.6 of triple nickel with a 130OTM Berger should net you very acceptable groups. Can’t wait to see how this ends up.
6BR. The type of terrain you hunt will determine whether a SFP or FFP would be the right choice. Granted antelope is in open country so a FFP scope would be a great option but you will not find your reticle in a FFP scope in timbered areas. Good luck. Can't wait to see the results.
300 yards or less you don’t need a FFP scope having owned plenty of both over my 60+ years of hunting and collecting rifles FFP is only need for target shooting unless your hunting at unethical ranges🤔😳
1st focal plane scope is a must, imo. The ability to dial your elevation is also a must. I like moa reticles though. As far as I can see, the difference is metric vs imperial. Which do you prefer? There are systems for estimating range based on target size, but both have enough error that when you get out further, those systems are useless. You're using a calculator. If you already have to calculate it, then one number system is as good as another to me. The only reason I put moa over mil is because I like the hash marks more than dots.
Scopes would be a little complicated and too long of a discussion to debate. But FFP vs SFP for true hunting can get complicated in today's world. I use both, Depending on my needs. MOA vs Mils that's a how scope measures. Both can be used on FFP or SFP. But its very important ones application to make the right choice.
Measured the jam on my 308 rifle and it is 2.966" I know that through your videos. For jam I can barely seat the bullets in the brass at that length, but I have done it. Rounds won't fit into a magazine. Thanks for your videos, Erik. Good luck,and anything that makes a clean kill more likely, such as a mil dot ffp scope that the shooter is comfortable with, is warranted.
Eric brings up so many valid points and considerations regarding long range hunting and he is humble enough to say that even a world class shooter is unlikely to be 100 for 100. Excellent video. I hope people are listening to what you’re saying 👍🏼👍🏼
A 6.5 Creedmore is pushing the effective range of good bullet expansion at 600yrds depending on what you choose. I would like to see you use an actual hunting bullet for the challenge. As far as mil vs moa, shoot what you know. FFP is great for spotting your misses and making corrections but this is hunting, cold bore hits are required. Misses are wounded animals that die slowly and sometimes aren’t required. If it was me, I’d run a 6.5 PRC, 20” barrel heavy Palma, Suppressed in a light chassis (XLR 4.0 Mag) or a Carbon offering from Manners. 156 Berger EOL. Pierce Shadow or Defiance AnTi.
In my opinion 2nd focal plane scopes are a thing of the past. I will never own one again. My hunting scopes are in mil. I like a christmas tree type rectile. Must be able to dial, must have a level (send it level). It must be capable of sub moa or better. I'm with you on factory rifles. They just don't cut it. It's custom for me. Oh and I'm just an average person but I put in the extra work to have the money for something I want and not something that leaves me wanting more. I look forward to seeing the results in the next few episodes.
I agree with you 100% on using a FFP Mils scope for hunting. Since I shoot PRS a lot that’s what I use anyway, and having the exact same optic on my hunting rifle just makes sense and will be so much more efficient especially since the bullets I compete and hunt with are nearly identical in BC. Mils in my head also just happens to be so much faster which is also a huge benefit.
I'm so excited to see this collaboration and I'm really impressed that Eric is wanting to do it with a factory rifle. The reality is 100% is not realistic and this is going to really show people that there's alot that goes on in taking those types of shots and skill is not the be all end all.
I agree with Erik here, equipment matters when you're going out further. Not just due to how much more precise the rifle is, but how repeatable it will be in your hands.
Good luck Eric! The barrel heat build up is something I think will show up. Hunting your shot will be most likely cold bore. Here you have the timing and a hot barrel will be in use.
Given that it shoots well, The Aero rifle is the best choice. Its a peak off the shelf option and at a reasonable weight. However, if your goal is to prove to people that this shot cannot or should not be done, then using your most accurate option and still failing will prove your point better. On the ammo option, should you be using something like the Nosler ABLR, Hornady ELD-X, or Berger EOL. This is a hunting scenario so hunting bullets should probably be used ( I know the difference BC is going to make at this distance is minimal but what is the point in creating a scenario if you aren't going to make it real). If the bullets you have chosen have shown to perform well on game then go ahead and use them by all means. FFP is a must for this scenario. MOA or mil is whichever you are most comfortable with.
I do agree that 100% hit rate on 100 milk jug size targets out to 600 yards in a field situation is not realistic. Just dispersion will account for a few misses. Add wind and the human factor and 90% would be a very good outcome. For most, a cold bore shot at 600 yards is an automatic miss. Then, once the barrel heats up, dispersion will increase and you're gonna miss more. On the other hand, 100 consecutive targets in the field is not realistic either. I'd say that Jim's challenge should be 10 cold bore shots (say 30 minutes cooling between shots) at 600 yards to be realistic. Obviously there would be changes in wind during the course of fire which would be completely realistic. If you could make 10 out of 10 cold bore shots at 600, then I would say you're good to go for hunting at 600. I'm not a MILRAD guy so I go with MOA but, FFP adjustable turrets with high magnification scopes are the way to go for hunting. You don't need to use all 25x but you have it if you want it. If you don't want it, you can leave it on 5x all day long. An illuminated reticle is a plus for low light especially at low magnification in a FFP scope.
I manufactured Laser optics and I respect and admire your attention to detail. It is why you are so good at what you do. I know still little to ehh nothing in your field. I think if it is a target, live or paper up to 600 yds I would buckle up and learn the metric option in this case as well. Also 1st focal plane. To make everyone comfortable I would not be shooting in my case anything past 250/300 yds
It's funny. What a target shooter thinks is "light" and a western hunter thinks is "light" is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I think light weight starts at 8# and goes down from there. Average is 8.5-9.5#. A dedicated mountain hunter would think 14# is gastly heavy! For practical hunting situations sfp is the way to go. If I jump a buck or bull and he's standing at 40 yards I don't want to fish around for a cross hair.
Yes, I smiled at that too. My .30-06 and my 9.3x62 are both 8.2 pounds with 4x scopes. Obviously, I’m not taking 600 meter shots on game with them. But I can carry them all day up and down the little mountains we have in Virginia. On the other hand, my usual hunting rifle is an 11-pound .25-06 with a 2.5-8x scope. Despite the weight, it is well-balanced so I can carry it for a long time without getting too fatigued. If I were to attempt a challenge like this, that would be my hunting rifle of choice. But in the real world, it’s unlikely I will ever take a shot at more than 300 meters on game.
"MOA is better for hunting" is one of the silliest things I heard in a while. They only say that because most hunters who are not also precision shooters are still stuck in the MOA language because "that's what their daddy used".
The one possible exception to this challenge might be James Eagleman from the channel "Barbourcreek Long Range Shooting & Hunting School". Concerning the rifle choice, it would be better with a PRC cartridge for a long range shot. Also, I drilled and tapped a 10-32 thread into my Bergara B-14 HMR stock and attached a cheap arca rail that I bought from Amazon ($9) and it works great.
This is gonna be awesome to see. Really curious to see what kind of hit rate is realistic with a pro shooting it.
I'm going to guess that Erik will hit 95+%.
I think James Eagleman at Barbour Creek could shoot 100% on this challenge. I would put my money on him over ANYONE else on UA-cam for THIS challenge.
Eagleman would be very cool to see as well
@@timjohnson2731 I'd give Pieter Malan from the Impact Shooting channel a pretty good chance. He has like 35 videos hunting a variety of game in South Africa (he lives there) with his precision rifles. He's done a bunch of headshots out to 350 yards and body shots much further than that. And he's a professional PRS shooter.
@@timjohnson2731 AGREED. Eagleman is like some kind of machine and on a level above anyone else I've ever known.
Honestly the other pro I think would do well is Mike Lilly from long range with the Lillies. He's an NRL hunter pro who thrives in field conditions with a precision rifle
As an experiment, I would love to see Erik shoot one of these challenges with a classic Western rifle like a T3x, with a vx3 or 5/vortex viper scope. It is by far the most relatable setup for most Western hunters. It would truly give many of us a more realistic expectation for performance. Everyone loves to talk about how it’s about the shooter, not the equipment, but I’ve never seen long range experts shoot anything much less than a competition/high end hunting setup. I believe Erik is one of the best shooters out there, but I’d be much more interested if this challenge was with an average rifle.
I agree, that 1st guy that ran the challenge with Jim was a perfect representation of the weekend warrior.
Your idea would represent well the committed shooter who was willing to invest in the craft.
Having Eric do the shooting takes the “shooter” out of the equation. It would be the perfect demonstration of why someone running a Ruger American and off the shelf CoreLok ammo should stay in their “inside 300 yards” lane. Too many folks fancy themselves an amazing marksman. This would give us all the ammo we need to show folks why it’s important to be realistic when hunting living animals.
Good luck Eric! You’ll do great!!
Yeah, the first episode featured the average hunter that thinks they can shoot long range. I’m a long range shooter, so I’ll bring long range gear.
That’s fair. I just would like to see a great shooter shoot with average equipment. It would really show what skill gets you vs equipment. Maybe a bonus with you shooting one of Jim’s review guns?? Looking forward to the challenge! Good luck Erik!
He definitely was a Vortex fanboy 😂@@ErikCortina
A 6.5CM Tikka CTR in factory configuration should be more than capable of getting this task done.
If you wanted to try a light weight set up then a Razor LHT 4.5-22 would be a good option, but honestly a K318i wouldn't be impractical for this shoot.
I definitely don't think either the 6x47 or 6br as setup would be "fair" for this test.
If a 20lb rifle was to be used then why not game the whole thing and run a 300NM and just ignore all the wind calls.
I like MIL and FFP for hunting too. I pretty much never use MOA anymore
Do you measure distance in yards or meters? I find most people measure in yards so moa ffp makes more sense in my head.
Mils vs MOA for hunting it doesn't matter one bit. Use what you know and are comfortable with. Both of them are just angular measurements and both work the same way. Its like asking are centimeters or inches better? It depends on what you're used to and how your tools are marked. FFP has a disadvantage for close up woods hunting due to the tiny reticle. SFP is trickier to use the reticle for windage or elevation unless you're zoomed in all the way. Each has it's pros and cons so again I'd say use what you personally prefer. This challenge is going to be so awesome, I can't wait. I posted a thread about Jim's video over on Long Range Only and nobody volunteered to try it.
Nope, moa is more accurate.
Mil is easier to use without pulling out a calculator.
@@StuninRub I cant see how its more accurate, can you explain
@@StuninRub I wouldn't say it's more accurate. It is a little bit finer adjustment, which may or may not make any difference at all on paper. 1 click on an MOA scope is about 1.57" at 600 yards while a Mil scope gives you 2.16". So it really depends where exactly you're trying to move your crosshair. Since we are talking about hunting at 600 yards in this video, a difference of a few tenths of an inch in scope adjustment will be overshadowed by the precision of your scope, the accuracy of your rifle, and your ability to shoot from a hunting position. So my original statement "it doesn't matter one bit" holds true.
Came here to basically post this comment. Both are just angular measurements so you should use what you are most familiar with.
Since this is basically to legitimize hunting over 600 yds. I think you should use a common rifle. If someone with your skill can’t do it with even a premium “hunting” rifle, most hunters don’t have a chance to do it consistently.
I hope that is exactly what hunters get from all this is that it’s about being a ethical hunter not some Ahole who likes taking pot shots at our precious game🤔😳
That's what I suggested, Eric didn't like it.
@@edwardabrams4972 Thats the thing, I don't think many will get it, especially when Erik will likely do extremely well and it could actually be detrimental to the case of "ethical hunting" because most (well maybe not most but many) will likely not consider Erik's skills in wind reading and also will likely ignore the fact that he is also a very very good competitive long range / F-Class shooter both of which make the rifle aspect rather moot.
I like as much accuracy as I can get but will only use a traditional style hunting rifle. I do not really care to shoot past 300 yards on live game. Terminal ballistics count for live game. Need a bullet made for hunting for that.
Aero Solus fits the bill perfectly if you ask me! A production out of the box precision hunting rifle. You couldn’t ask for a more realistic situation than that!
Yup
I like your philosophy on long range hunting. Too many guys are shooting way beyond their capabilities and the animal pays for it. Thanks for being straight forward with hunters Eric. Be fun to see how you do on this challenge, it will be eye opening for all of us.
And this is ONE of the reasons Eric gets respect! Being ethical is so important because everyone is looking for an excuse to put down hunting 🤔😳
The one thing I would add to your comment is that it's not just the animals that pay for it, It gives hunters a BLACK EYE also!!
The real question is will you shoot from Jim’s back ?
😂
😂
I knew it was coming, TPH didn’t disappoint. 😂
Tph doesn't disappoint
No no no, we need jim to flex a bit more for the butt crack rifle stand... 😂
I have been checking Erik's channel and BackFire and have not been able to find it. Did this challenge ever happen? I would love to see this one.
Erik, your "going to see what is in the safe" already blows 90% of us out of the water cuz you have the good stuff. Fan of the 6br but am used to a 16lb pack riding my mtn bike so no big. What's really cool is you outfitting a bare rifle for the challenge. Tons we can learn from your components and decisions made along the way.
It would be cool if Erik made videos along the way. How he mounts the scope, the level, and gets the reticle perfectly level. Any shooting he does to practice and learn the rifle. How he selects which ammo to use (or if he builds his own ammo, the steps in the process). Erik is a hero in my house.
I will assure you that Eric will look impressive in the event. Eric does things much different than a serious hunter would. hopefully we will be able to see the testing and process of the rifle being put together before the event. the world champ will impress !
Hope this lesson gets attention. Lots of folks think they are long range killers and need a taste of humble pie. 6.5 CM is fine for antelope out to 600 but how many people can make the shot in hunting conditions. I grew up in WY and I know what the wind does. Started out with a 30.06 at age 14 and now, at 71, use a .308. I would never attempt an elk beyond 350 with a .308. Energy drops below 1500 ft lbs very quickly beyond that. I don’t think I’ve ever taken a mule deer beyond 250 or an antelope beyond 300. Part of hunting is knowing how to get close enough for an ethical shot.
You do realize that a 6.5 with 147 eld box ammo has the same kinetic energy at 1400 as a 9mm at point blank... I still don't understand how people are out here thinking these bullets aren't lethal at extended range. If you genuinely believe that putting the barrel of a 9mm to the side of an elk won't kill them, then by all means, neither will your 308 at 500.
@@theironroad5502 Did you read my post, “6.5 is fine out to 600 for antelope”? Also, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on mule deer and elk to 350/375. Recommended energy to kill an elk is 1500 ft/lbs. 308 loses that just below 400. I grew up in WY, where the wind blows. From age 14 to when I left for the Army after college, age 22, I killed a bull elk and mule deer, every season. And yes, my dad killed more mule deer with his 30/30 than I ever will. So yes, smaller calibers do work when used at ethical ranges. Ethical range includes your ability to make accurate wind calls. I’m 71 now, but my favorite advice from my dad is still, “If you have to shoot at an animal beyond 250, you don’t know how to hunt.”
I appreciate the experts being blunt about the limitations of long range hunting.
I’ve built a couple of long range hunting rifles, I started with second focal plane MOA Nightforce scopes. I now use first focal plane Nightforce scopes, but still MOA. My buddy uses MILS. Both work, you just need to be proficient and knowledgeable in whichever system you’re using. Looking forward to your build and challenge!
Hi Eric! I would love to see you shooting the same stock gun setup as the backfire troll, tikka t3x lite 300wm with real light weight hunting scope around 12 power and shooting of a backpack or shooting sticks
We all know what you are capable of with a fancy equipment, we all want to see the limitations of professional shooter with a very simple and cheap gun , but elk capable power at 600yd
Guys if you like my idea, please click "like" , otherwise Eric probably won't see this
I agree that would be much more interesting 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Yes, that way it would be more beneficial for the hunting community
Eric, just don't get scoped lol
I think you are going at this the right way and agree with you about the 600 yard shot on game.
I’d say as far as mils or moa it’s just what you’re proficient with but agree it should be ffp. No matter what rifle you choose, that aero precision rifle would make a great video.
I can't wait to see Eric do the challenge. If anyone can do it he'll be the one.
About half way through this video I already had the comment written out saying “not custom tanks mate, you need a **hunting** rifle you would take on an actual hunt”. Great to see you getting a hunting rifle for the challenge!
Technically, all rifles aes hunting rifles. 😉
@@ErikCortina I say, grab the last rifle you took hunting big game and go do the challenge. I reckon you always shoot better with a rifle you are familiar with so fitting out a new one puts you at a disadvantage.
Not all custom rifles are built for long range. My 2 most common hunting rifles are definitely custom rifles, neither of them are built for long range. The normal distance when I hunt is around 50 meters. My rifles are built to be easy to get on target quickly and take safe shots in such contexts. I have shot competition revolvers heavier than my 9.3x62! I have tried that rifle at 575 meters on steel. I think the deer can feel quite safe, even if you shoot at them at that distance with that equipment 😂
Eric, in 1983 I had Bill Wiseman build me a 264 Win Mag with a long throat and on a long action. It is a 1/4 MOA Rifle. It is about the same you are putting together. It made a fantastic Antelope and Mule Deer rifle. Scope is an excellent choice for Antelope. Maybe not for light unless you an illuminated reticle.
Antelope is a small target at 600 yards and the wind will can be an issue.
I have not had to a big game animal over 437. I would prefer to stalk.
Idaho has a 16 lb max rifle weight rule that would also disqualify the heavier rifles. Very helpful information listening to your thought process in choosing a rifle. I would love to hear what you would take on a combo mule deer / elk hunt especially caliber wise.
That is an absolutely wild rule. What’s the reasoning behind it?
I, too, would love to know the reasoning behind that rule.
@@albundy7459 it was a roundabout way for them to address guys supposedly using .50 BMG to kill elk.
@@jimothy-johnson What's wrong with that?
For caliber, a good balance of accuracy, distance, down range energy and RECOIL, the 7MM Remington Magnum is hard to beat. Especially if you hand load.
I’m glad to see you take a more practical approach to this challenge. Some states have restrictions on rifle weights, and you looking into small details makes this a good video. Can’t wait to see you try it!
Post a video on how you attached the rail!!
The 13lb weight is totally fine for long range hunting. Heavy but not too much. I think mine is 13-13.5 if I remember correctly. Also looking forward to your review of the Aero action.
My hunting rifle is a shade over 9lbs and I wouldn’t want to carry anything heavier. How much are you carrying that 13lb rifle?
I’m older now and do not walk as much as I used to. So if I am in my favorite pastures, I only walk in a few miles to post up and let the rifle do the walking for me. I have a nice, lighter hunting rifle, but I find the long range rig is so nice to shoot that I take it as much as possible.
Erik,
Your setup is to heavy for stalking, average hunter will go with a #2 contour weighting 7.8 to 9 pound scoped, aluminium Talley ring, 2x10x42mm to 3x15x42mm scope, second focal plane scope. Probably in the most popular 0.308 caliber with more drop and deflection. The challenge is to proof what a pro can do with a hunting set up. If you have 0.75 moa accuracy, it will be more in line with most of the good hunting rifle. If you cannot ... A lot of long range enthusiast will have to sober up. Please get out of your confort zone with 15 pound + rifle
Can't wait to see the challenge.
I agree, dialing elevation is important but disagree with 1st focal plane. In hunting scenarios, I want to see a clear reticle when the scope is on it’s lowest power. Mil Dot is good and knowing average animal size- dimensions very important for Mil Dot ranging.
Did you get the OK from Hornady to say your rifle is a sub-moa?😊
I think with optics for hunting, the most important thing is the hunter must know what they have and understand how to use it. They must be proficient in using the optics for the situation. Whether Mill/Mill or moa/moa, the hunter must understand and know how to apply it to the shot presented.
Whats going on with that challange Eric? We want to see how you do😁😁😁
loved the video, lot of good take aways for the, under 200 yard hunter, who wants the ability to reach out, A. no one use a a level,1/2 a degree off level at 600 yard and you have missed, B.no one use the tripod for stability even when shooting from prone you are more stable, stable gun = a good shot. and then there is calling the wind and you are the master at that. the other thing I noticed was that all the shooters ( in the challange) came off the scop right away, a discipline your were teaching Ruger in a earlier Back fire video .... this is a lot of fun and very educational. I really appreciate all the knowledge you guys are bring to the table
I follow both of you and can’t wait see this challenge . Gone be good one
I think the solus is the closest to being in the spirit of the challenge for sure, ideally an actual lightweight (sub 6.5lb rifle) scope etc. but I understand budget matters. I would love to see what a real comp rifle can do in those conditions too so shooting both would be very cool to illustrate the difference.
I also think it’s very important to be shooting a HUNTING bullet actually appropriate for antelope if that’s what you’re going for. I don’t think factory or handload really matters, nor do I think components used in the handload matters price wise, just as long as that VV powder and lapua brass is paired with a hunting bullet designed for terminal effect and ethical kills
I started laughing about half way through and saying ,”God, I love you him!” when Eric said, “Some people will say that’s a target scope, not a hunting scope. Well animals are targets and we want to put the bullet where we want it.”
True that! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
So true until you have a small buck jump out of the brush at 25 yards and the FFP crosshairs cover the whole body 🤔😳
@@edwardabrams4972 Hmmm the challenge is not at 25 yds though. I’ve never had the crosshairs cover an entire buck though.😀👍
@@edwardabrams4972 that's not how antelope hunting works. which is why he's selecting the scope he's selecting. and why he asked backfire to specify an animal. I brought a 4-16 ffp on my antelope hunt and was very pleased.
Good Day Mr.Cortina, FFP is indeed the way to go in a HUNTING rifle scope with a graduated/stadiametric type reticle. However. MOA is far superior to MILS for Americans who understand inches, feet and yards. Both can work obviously, but the MATH using MOA is SOOO much easier. As a hunting example: Your deer is 600 yards out. Shooter up, Spotter ( your guide ) is up, you fire and the guide says you missed him by 15, 24 or 30 inches, using MOA the math become fast and easy, divide the range to target ( move the decimal to place to the left) and divide into the suggested miss. ( you have a 2.5, 4.0 or 5.0 MOA correction and BINGO, your second round smokes the deer) With MILS the math is much more difficult and takes a lot more time. I've yet to encounter a guide who calls the miss in centimeters, fractions of meters or meters.Keep up the great contributions to the shooting sports, you've done wonders for countless shooters. Good luck on the 100 shot challenge, that's going to be tough! We'll just have to disagree on the MIL/MOA debate. Respectfully
Darrell Holland
I cannot remember a video that I have been more excited about seeing in a long time!
Same here
Here too.
Out in the field off hand 200yds I'm only good for 8"circle. None of my west coast elk were shot off bag,bipod or tree even. 5 seconds or less shots from ID to hammer drop. One step and they are gone,and your chance for a shot
What's the status of this challenge?
Did you back out?
Eric I really like your UA-cam channel and learned alot from you over the years on reloading and shooting techniques. I'm just a hunter and do not shot competitively, but I just bought a CZ America wood stock in 22 WMR and intend on signing up for the 22 shooting competitions held monthly at my gun club in the hunting class for fun and too improve my shooting skills. The reason for my post is I would like to commend you on your comment "statement " that know one should be ethically shotting at animals at that distance. Regardless of their claimed shooting capabilities. Thank you for that.
I was raised using MOA scopes so that's what I prefer and am use to. It would be to costly to switch every scope over at this point.
If anyone knows what rifle to use it would be you for sure. Good luck on the challenge Erik!!
Eric, you are killing it with the content! Here's another series I cannot wait to watch. I am super curious to see how the Solus performs. I have been itching to get one of those variants for a while now. I am still kinda partial to the needs more with the prefit barrel.
I like those oryx chassis. Pretty low budget
Looking forward to this.
Love all the vids and collaboration that have sprouted from the Rock Chuck series.
I do a fair amount of field shooting and military biathlon; my personal preference is to take weight off of me rather than the rifle if I have to make a choice.
Everything I've got is currently a chassis gun but I have to admit to being hugely "Foundation curious" so that's where my vote is going.
Yer gonna crush it👍🏻
Erik, why not bring two rifles out to the challenge? The Aero Solus and your F-class 7PRCW world championship rifle? If the 7PRCW cannot do it 100%, then the challenge can be put to rest that it’s not achievable.
Right on great ideas I knew there was a reason I liked you🤔😳😂
Realistically a one MOA rifle is about the most a hunter could expect. Yes you can pay $ for gun-smith or high end rifle, or get a lucky rifle. But most hunters don’t have that. Take the first rifle, we want to see what a great shooter can do with a 3/4 MOA gun. Because for most of us, that’s one of the better rifles we would ever own. Not to mention the advantages you would have with a competitive style scope. As my guess is most hunters have scopes that max out somewhere between 9 and 12 power. And the vast majority of them don’t have a rail system, or tripod.
That’s is the point. Most hunters have zero business taking 600 yard shots because they aren’t equipped for them.
@@ErikCortina Agreed... So to some extent I want to see you take a rifle and fail at 100% hits because it will show people they should not try it on game. None of us doubt your ability, and if they think they are better than you they are fools!
You bumped those rifles, my balloon knot just about sucked my entire chair right up into my stomach.
"Balloon Knot" 🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
Yeah i coulda made a diamond when that happened.
You guys are silly. This has been tested so many times. You can straight up drop them and they won’t lose zero. It’s called quality equipment. Old wives take when optics and rings sucked. Any decent $100+ set of rings and $650+ optic would be completely unphased.
A couple months ago at the range. I had my MK12 rifle with Arken scope resting on bipod on the bench. (Before people bash the Arken "cheap" junk scope, this says something). Mk12 with Magpul PRS lite stock, 6-24x50 scope and Atlas bipod, weighing 12.2 lbs. A guy walked by the bench and accidentally bumped the rifle, it fell from 42" bench, flipped as it fell and full impact was top of scope, on concrete. First thing another guy said was "I wouldn't have that rifle now". I commented, if it can't take a fall like that, I don't want it. The rifle didn't get a scratch, the scope took the full impact. The objective flip cap blew apart at the hinge, the elevation turret had a small scratch. I checked zero, still dead on. Ran the turrets out to 200, 300 & 400 shooting hanging golf balls, back to zero, still tracked perfect.
Years ago, I may have had a stroke to see that rifle hit the concrete. Not the Arken scope because it wasn't expensive. But back in the day if that had been that rifle with a Nightforce or Vortex razor $3000+ scope, my heart may not have handled it, I look at things different now.
I took a Solus in a chassis to a 600 yard f-class match, in 6 CM, with a leupold mark 5, 5x25, Box Berger 105 hybrid ammo and shot 600 with 34 x's. It was cloudy, windy and on and off/on rainy. Those guns can shoot. I put a Phoenix bipod on it, and shot off carpet board, lol, if you know you know.
Erik says, “I’m your huckleberry.” 😂
Eric this is a perfect excuse to build a rifle dont compromise. Spin you up a Brux for that Solus. Drop one of your barreled actions into that AG composites stock. Buy a HNT26 chassis. Carbon fiber barrel on your prs rig. So many good choices go crazy with it.
A hunting setup. I’d like to see a sub $1500 rifle. Impress me and choose a 308.
Lot of sub $1500 .308 out there.
Glad your doing the challenge. I like your approach to selecting your rifle.
Thank you.
NEEDSMOOR pick one!
I agree with the folks who are suggesting use a rifle that is the most relatable, something you would see a lot of average hunters with. Otherwise go with the 6X47 and show that even qith the most dedicated long range gun that unrealistic for a hunter, its still next to impossible
Soooooo when are you doing this?
When it comes to optics… I say use what you’re comfortable with. I’ve been an MOA guy most my life and you learn to adjust no matter which you use. FFP preferred as well at least for me.
So? did it happen yet? i can’t find it.
Hello Mr. Cortina, thank you for saying something that should be said more, "animals are targets and the intention is to hit them where you intend". The BS spewed out for public consumption is so terrible for new hunters especially, that they have to sort through in order to have a rifle and ammunition that is adequate for harvesting game animals successfully. I also appreciate you mentioning that 600 yards is to far to be shooting a live animal except for very skilled and and knowledgeable people with the correct equipment. I will be watching for the upcoming video of the challenge and I have no doubts you will do exceptionally well.
Aero Solus, the rest are all what I would consider to be target guns.
Animals are targets
@@Sparks00psn no, animals are food.
@@jonathanrogers9961 after they’re a target, yes. Kind of hard to eat a still running deer.
Mil ffp is all we use for hunting. We tend to pick cartridges with lower wind drift for hunting open country. Helps minimize risks if wind call is off at all.
Your 6×47 is the one you need for this challenge Erik
Totally agree on all counts. Personally, i do use MOA reticles because my brain has been calculating hold overs in minutes since before x-mas tree reticals were a thing. If i were not already stuck in this rut, I'd go with mil-radians. I dont think you need a $3k rifle and a $2k scope, but I'd definitely want something that was 1/2 moa or better, and I'd likely bed it into a chassis just for peace of mind. If i were starting from scratch, id likely go with an entry level bergara action and a prefit barrel with a diamond trigger. I'd look for a lightly used Vortex pst or Athlon Ares optic. For antelope, Id likely go with a 6br or 6x47 and work up some handloads. Realistically, i might be inclined to try the 6.5x47 and load it with Cavity Backs 105gr MKZ because they've been amazing in my 6.5 Grendel. Id imagine i could push them fast enough in a 6.5x47 that i wouldn't loos much on wind to the 130gr stuff.
The guy has a reputation to uphold ... he'll stack his deck accordingly.
😁
For hunting, MOA vs MIL, mil dot vs VEPR vs Tree. . . None of that matters. If you are compitent with your equipment and you are confident with your range estimate or measurement, then any of the scope tech out there is suitable for the shot.
As long as you are capable.
As for me, it doesn't matter what equipment I have with me, I couldn't do much better than Military Mike did on Jim's channel. That's a tough challenge and there's no doubt in my mind it would beat any shooter.
This will be entertaining.
Excellent video and advice. I shoot 1000 yards every week and would not advise on taking a 600 yard shot.
Backfire setup a prs match with timed and positional shooting.. far from "a hunting situation"..
Idk what you watched but the video I watched from backfire with the milk jugs was a great hunting practice test
@brianjazek7769 think so? When are you timed and forced to take a shot on an animal? When are you forced to shoot from a certain place or position? You ever tried to range a milk jug vs a deer elk or pronghorn? And how many hunts have you been on where you took 100 shots in a day?.. I've done plenty of prs matches and I can tell you this was setup like a competition
@@Rackpack-mb4mlcertain position, no. Less than ideal? All the time. I don’t think the test was perfect but I didn’t think it was that bad.
We never forced him to shoot any certain position. He could shoot any position he wanted. Just had one area where he had to get above the brush to see.
Also, MOST hunts require shooters to move quickly and get a shot off before the animal is gone. That’s why we simulated that pressure with time.
@backfire your entire argument here was against "long range hunting".. ultimately the hunter is the one that decides when and if to pull the trigger. This is a disingenuous test. A hunter is never forced to shoot period. I have an email from Mike the marine that tells his side of the story.. maybe I should get his permission to post it.
Spirit of the challenge is hunting, thus the out of the box Aero Solus is definitely the right choice! Mil/MOA doesn't matter, what ever the shooter is comfortable with. Like Km/hr or MPH, the relative distance and speed is the same regardless of unit of measure.
I think you have one more option and it may be the more realistic to keep this in a hunting perspective. Having said that your factory (custom production) is close. Most hunters now who dont have 2-3k dollars to spend on a new rifle but want a custom, take their 700 Remington in x-caliber and have it tuned and rebarreled. So, take the 700 Rem in 6.5 "needsmor" put a carbon fiber wrap barrel of your choice after you tune the action. (Lug abutment, bolt lugs, bolt nose, bolt face, action face, .250" precision ground tapered lug). Then go with a lighter scope... Leupold VX-5 or 6, Manners or HS Precision stock. You end up with a 10-11 lb rifle and it will shoot lights out. I learned from one of Speedy's best students so i know you how to put a rifle together.
POA Precision Rifles LLC
I think something that could make the task (perhaps) a little easier is cartridge selection, the amount of recoil vs performance of the cartridge can be a significant factor and every game animal (and distance) has a kind of "sweet spot" for cartridge selection. In my opinion, for antelope and for the ranges given, 6mm Creedmoor is almost the perfect cartridge, the 6.5Creed will certainly get the job done but you're adding either recoil or weight to the build either way. 6Creed's only downside is it has nowhere near the amount of factory ammo offerings or rifles available.
Its all about shoot placement. 1 MOA is good enough, Pronghorn antelope = 14"-15" killzone. Don't over think it and bring a laser rangefinder.
Rifle looks nice. My opinion, and it’s just me, I like SFP MOA scopes for hunting. I just can’t see enough of the reticle on FFP scopes on Low power to actually do anything with. As compared to a SFP scope on Low power being able to see and use the reticle. Just my opinion. Good luck
Seriously....please,please don't take a needsmore! If you hit every shot we'll never hear the end of it! Lol! Excited to see this happen! Glad you accepted the challenge!
As someone with a factory solus, 22” sendero in 6.5 manbun, if you have to load for it, somewhere around 43.6 of triple nickel with a 130OTM Berger should net you very acceptable groups. Can’t wait to see how this ends up.
will there be a follow up to this video?
6BR. The type of terrain you hunt will determine whether a SFP or FFP would be the right choice. Granted antelope is in open country so a FFP scope would be a great option but you will not find your reticle in a FFP scope in timbered areas. Good luck. Can't wait to see the results.
300 yards or less you don’t need a FFP scope having owned plenty of both over my 60+ years of hunting and collecting rifles FFP is only need for target shooting unless your hunting at unethical ranges🤔😳
1st focal plane scope is a must, imo. The ability to dial your elevation is also a must. I like moa reticles though. As far as I can see, the difference is metric vs imperial. Which do you prefer?
There are systems for estimating range based on target size, but both have enough error that when you get out further, those systems are useless. You're using a calculator. If you already have to calculate it, then one number system is as good as another to me.
The only reason I put moa over mil is because I like the hash marks more than dots.
Scopes would be a little complicated and too long of a discussion to debate. But FFP vs SFP for true hunting can get complicated in today's world. I use both, Depending on my needs. MOA vs Mils that's a how scope measures. Both can be used on FFP or SFP. But its very important ones application to make the right choice.
Measured the jam on my 308 rifle and it is 2.966" I know that through your videos. For jam I can barely seat the bullets in the brass at that length, but I have done it. Rounds won't fit into a magazine. Thanks for your videos, Erik. Good luck,and anything that makes a clean kill more likely, such as a mil dot ffp scope that the shooter is comfortable with, is warranted.
I picked you as someone to beat this challenge... Glad to see you take notice...
Eric brings up so many valid points and considerations regarding long range hunting and he is humble enough to say that even a world class shooter is unlikely to be 100 for 100.
Excellent video. I hope people are listening to what you’re saying 👍🏼👍🏼
When is this going to take place?
Make sure backfire actually does this with you. Dont let him chicken out.
A 6.5 Creedmore is pushing the effective range of good bullet expansion at 600yrds depending on what you choose. I would like to see you use an actual hunting bullet for the challenge. As far as mil vs moa, shoot what you know. FFP is great for spotting your misses and making corrections but this is hunting, cold bore hits are required. Misses are wounded animals that die slowly and sometimes aren’t required. If it was me, I’d run a 6.5 PRC, 20” barrel heavy Palma, Suppressed in a light chassis (XLR 4.0 Mag) or a Carbon offering from Manners. 156 Berger EOL. Pierce Shadow or Defiance AnTi.
In my opinion 2nd focal plane scopes are a thing of the past. I will never own one again. My hunting scopes are in mil. I like a christmas tree type rectile. Must be able to dial, must have a level (send it level). It must be capable of sub moa or better. I'm with you on factory rifles. They just don't cut it. It's custom for me. Oh and I'm just an average person but I put in the extra work to have the money for something I want and not something that leaves me wanting more.
I look forward to seeing the results in the next few episodes.
When is this going to go down? If it already has, when will it be aired?
New to the channel. I learned more in 20 minutes then the many hours of watching some of the other hunting channels I follow… thanks!!!
I agree with you 100% on using a FFP Mils scope for hunting. Since I shoot PRS a lot that’s what I use anyway, and having the exact same optic on my hunting rifle just makes sense and will be so much more efficient especially since the bullets I compete and hunt with are nearly identical in BC. Mils in my head also just happens to be so much faster which is also a huge benefit.
Do you measure distance in yards or meters for your shooting?
Good stuff. Looking forward to following. The best hunting optic I own (may be the best hunting optic ever) is the Kahles 3-18.
You have chosen wisely 😳🙌
I'm so excited to see this collaboration and I'm really impressed that Eric is wanting to do it with a factory rifle. The reality is 100% is not realistic and this is going to really show people that there's alot that goes on in taking those types of shots and skill is not the be all end all.
I can't wait, love this challenge and want more people to try it.
I agree with Erik here, equipment matters when you're going out further. Not just due to how much more precise the rifle is, but how repeatable it will be in your hands.
Hello, So. has there been a date set yet?
IMO to keep it fair choose a rifle you would hunt with .
Good luck Eric!
The barrel heat build up is something I think will show up. Hunting your shot will be most likely cold bore. Here you have the timing and a hot barrel will be in use.
Given that it shoots well, The Aero rifle is the best choice. Its a peak off the shelf option and at a reasonable weight. However, if your goal is to prove to people that this shot cannot or should not be done, then using your most accurate option and still failing will prove your point better. On the ammo option, should you be using something like the Nosler ABLR, Hornady ELD-X, or Berger EOL. This is a hunting scenario so hunting bullets should probably be used ( I know the difference BC is going to make at this distance is minimal but what is the point in creating a scenario if you aren't going to make it real). If the bullets you have chosen have shown to perform well on game then go ahead and use them by all means. FFP is a must for this scenario. MOA or mil is whichever you are most comfortable with.
I do agree that 100% hit rate on 100 milk jug size targets out to 600 yards in a field situation is not realistic. Just dispersion will account for a few misses. Add wind and the human factor and 90% would be a very good outcome. For most, a cold bore shot at 600 yards is an automatic miss. Then, once the barrel heats up, dispersion will increase and you're gonna miss more. On the other hand, 100 consecutive targets in the field is not realistic either. I'd say that Jim's challenge should be 10 cold bore shots (say 30 minutes cooling between shots) at 600 yards to be realistic. Obviously there would be changes in wind during the course of fire which would be completely realistic. If you could make 10 out of 10 cold bore shots at 600, then I would say you're good to go for hunting at 600.
I'm not a MILRAD guy so I go with MOA but, FFP adjustable turrets with high magnification scopes are the way to go for hunting. You don't need to use all 25x but you have it if you want it. If you don't want it, you can leave it on 5x all day long. An illuminated reticle is a plus for low light especially at low magnification in a FFP scope.
Did this not happen? haven't seen a follow up!
I manufactured Laser optics and I respect and admire your attention to detail. It is why you are so good at what you do. I know still little to ehh nothing in your field. I think if it is a target, live or paper up to 600 yds I would buckle up and learn the metric option in this case as well. Also 1st focal plane. To make everyone comfortable I would not be shooting in my case anything past 250/300 yds
Completely agree with ffp and mil scope. Less movement to make adjustments and no worries of wrong hold because of power settings
It's funny. What a target shooter thinks is "light" and a western hunter thinks is "light" is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I think light weight starts at 8# and goes down from there. Average is 8.5-9.5#. A dedicated mountain hunter would think 14# is gastly heavy!
For practical hunting situations sfp is the way to go. If I jump a buck or bull and he's standing at 40 yards I don't want to fish around for a cross hair.
Yes, I smiled at that too. My .30-06 and my 9.3x62 are both 8.2 pounds with 4x scopes. Obviously, I’m not taking 600 meter shots on game with them. But I can carry them all day up and down the little mountains we have in Virginia. On the other hand, my usual hunting rifle is an 11-pound .25-06 with a 2.5-8x scope. Despite the weight, it is well-balanced so I can carry it for a long time without getting too fatigued. If I were to attempt a challenge like this, that would be my hunting rifle of choice. But in the real world, it’s unlikely I will ever take a shot at more than 300 meters on game.
"MOA is better for hunting" is one of the silliest things I heard in a while. They only say that because most hunters who are not also precision shooters are still stuck in the MOA language because "that's what their daddy used".
The one possible exception to this challenge might be James Eagleman from the channel "Barbourcreek Long Range Shooting & Hunting School". Concerning the rifle choice, it would be better with a PRC cartridge for a long range shot. Also, I drilled and tapped a 10-32 thread into my Bergara B-14 HMR stock and attached a cheap arca rail that I bought from Amazon ($9) and it works great.