Doesn't it make more sense to compare the 1815 Chronograph with the other two (instead of the Datograph)? That would address the thickness and price concerns that you guys raised...
Ben is a master of diplomacy and portrayed all 3 watches in a good light whilst seemingly seen to be sitting on the garden fence on all 3. But deep down he loves the Lange the most; as watch lovers we get it😆 Even today Patek cannot produce a chronograph movement which is up to ALS standards.
Thank you gents, I found this immensely helpful when deciding on the 5170G (same dial). Just picked up mine couple days back from a reputed AD, new of course. There's a definitive click that you feel when activating the Chronograph function, and reset is just buttery smooth. This is one of those pieces that has to be worn to be appreciated really. Every angle, every play of light gives it so much substance that is lost, especially in static media. Kind Regards, Mike.
3 very beautiful watches. I like them all but I like the A. Lange & Söhne the most, because of the date function. Thank you Hodinkee for an awesome video :D
Lange is the one to have and to cherish imo. The other two are special, unquestionably but Lange is *the* reason that Patek has an in house chronograph movement and better finishing now. I am a big guy though with large wrists (19.75-19.8cm) so the larger case size isn't a big deal. Thickness is maybe more so but I 13ish mm is still cuffable for me and if I am being honest, I am a software engineer, the need for a dress shirt is confined to funerals and weddings.
Watch per watch the Dato wins to me. When talking value retention, obviousy the Patek it's a better purchase. Imho if the 5170 had at least one blue hand it'd look even more strinking. Maybe the chrono second hand. Also I remember when the Dato was 34K.
gulfmen86 More diversity of design in their model range (the artistic VC pieces are some of the most beautiful in all of horology along with Ulysse Nardin). In terms of engineering prowess, they currently set the bar in terms of the watch with the most complications, the Reference 57260. The finishing on most VC movements is marginally superior to that of Patek (though not quite to Lange standards). And, historically speaking, I think it's going to be extremely difficult for Patek to surpass VC. From Napoleon, the man who conquered most of the western world, to Harry Truman, the only man to order that an atomic weapon be used on another country, the VC owners list is just vastly superior (if you care about that sort of thing in the first place).
flyingphoenix113 I dont take fashion advice from Napoleon... you're free to do so though. End of the day, numbers dont lie. Pateks numbers are better than VC.
gulfmen86 Which numbers? Pateks usually have better resale value (especially the Nautilus vs. the Overseas and the Calatrava vs. the Patrimony). But, as I said alluded to before, in terms of who can successfully produce the most complications, that has been won by Vacheron (for now). I'm not sure which company produces more timepieces per year (assuming that to also be Patek), but, to a small degree, exclusivity is something I would value in a purchase like that. Also, I wouldn't hate on Napoleon too much. His fashion was nowhere near as good as the various Hapsburg families, but it was not that bad. If such things mattered to a person they would probably own a Vacheron because it was worn by POWERFUL people, individuals who altered the very course of human history. Whether or not they are FASHIONABLE people would probably be rather irrelevant.
The datograph is the one you want as an enthusiast. On the wrist, you’ll lean more towards the 5170. When you consider the price and how it will hold its value … the 5170 murders.
Considering Pateks are all over the place now, a VC that is sold much less, plus with a movement that may be sort of prototypic, the VC may very well retain or increase value better than the PP.
Great review I wouldn't expect anything less from hodinkee , the L&S is such a beautiful timepiece and I love mass as I am prone to 41 to 44mm as bigger guy.
Out of those 3, I'll take the Lange, of you have the money for a watch like that, chances are you have quite few more watches at home so the thickness of the Lange shouldn't be that much of a concern because you can have a Piaget to go with cuffs. Just My humble opinion.
When I watched this video 4 years ago I was for the datograph, yet this year i took delivery of the 5170P. How time changes our tastes and preferences.
The 5170 is the most conservative and financially wise purchase, the Datograph is certainly the most beautiful and has a history with the most gravitas, but the most technically (and aesthetically) interesting one would have to be the Harmony. The coaxial steel chrono wheel is creative and the hands are absolutely mesmerizing, as is whatever technique they used to apply the indices. They look almost hand painted.
I feel like the guard has changed. These represent the holy trinity (IMO). We should probably change it to the “big four” or “four horsemen” PP, VC, ALS, Breguet
And I have the Sea-gull 1963 column wheel chronograph. The 37mm with Sapphire chrystal on a Rios Russian brown leather strap. I bought it from Poljot 24 in Germany. I am poor and bought it as a timer watch for use in my photographic darkroom. Ideal because it has no lume to fog film. I love it and use it as my daily wearer. Sorry to lower the tone of this rarified video. I go.
I take the VC no questions asked also it is somehow a better value for money regedless of price range. They are the grandmasters of honorology so that makes the others only pupils. LS is like Porsche a german masterpiece that makes an excellent daily however falls short to be a sunday special that what VC would be for me.
Emil Jay I couldn't answer your question but if you ask ctj from the gentleman of leisure channel he's more clued up on watch history . Also if your on facebook check out the modern day watch enthusiasts group , you'll find a hive of knowledge there. Cheers
ryvr madduck I don't think they need to . Unless the movement is extremely well decorated or intricate it just comes across as a bit gimmicky which rolex doesn't need to do .
The fonts for the numbers spoil it for the VC and PP in my opinion. Kudos to Lange's datograph on using batons. But what do I know......way above my league. haha
@@dannycortes4159 You're right. Less than one tenth of one percent of watches are classified as investment potential...I'd rather invest my money in less speculative asset classes, but to each their own.
These are beautiful and admirable watches but, per many of the comments here, way beyond my price range. The closest I'm gonna get to these is a little Junghans chronograph that I'm in the process of restoring myself!!!
I think Jaeger-LeCoultre Duometre with dark dial would kick bootie of all of these three contenders in terms of pure beauty, aesthetics, and the masterpiece of a movement. It also looks incredible in action.
I think the only chronograph I am still interested in is the Seiko Spring Drive 55th Anniversary edition with the blue dial. Spring Drive makes for continuously smooth movement be forgoing escapement wheel altogether and using quartz regulator instead. They have two in NYC shop, one on display, and my face splat against the glass ogling. The only comfortable reason for me not to get is that it's a tad too large at 43.5mm. if it was like 41mm or less, I'd be jizzing my pants.
Andrew Piatek Ive seen a GS (hi beat model) in real and i was impressed with such a great polishing and details that i havent seen before (in that price range) plus that hi beat movement is also breath taking. Now i could only imagine how it looks in real a buttery smooth spring drive chrono hand. From what i see from that specific spring drive model, the main problems are chrono buttons, in my opinion they looks so big and uncomfortable. Its a big money, so i guess you made rite decision.
+Dursun Kara didn't answer my question, as you didn't address the LeMania movement that Patek, and Vacheron used forever......and why the in house movements are better. I know gold is more expensive then silver, but silver is better then gold for some applications
Technical question here...what is the frequency of those watches? It seems to me that at least regarding the chronograph the Lange and Vacheron are nowhere near the smoothness of Patek's second hand...Especially the Lange second hand seems a bit "jumpy" to me...
Jack is a baller. Most eloquent and well spoken editor at Hodinkee
Gosh that Patek is just smooooooooothe...just perfect in every aspect.
Was just watching this as I'm buying the exact same 5170G tomorrow xD
The Lange back is stunning.
Mike Howard
They always are-most gorgeous movements of any maker imo.
That Lange movement is beyond gorgeous, fucking unbelievable.
I'd go with the Lange. Lets be honest here, if you are spending $80k on a watch, you don't mind feeling it on your wrist vs. not even noticing it.
Doesn't it make more sense to compare the 1815 Chronograph with the other two (instead of the Datograph)? That would address the thickness and price concerns that you guys raised...
This is what I thought too.
All the way Lange. Especially the new 1815 Chronograph with black dial.
Ben is a master of diplomacy and portrayed all 3 watches in a good light whilst seemingly seen to be sitting on the garden fence on all 3. But deep down he loves the Lange the most; as watch lovers we get it😆 Even today Patek cannot produce a chronograph movement which is up to ALS standards.
Thank you gents, I found this immensely helpful when deciding on the 5170G (same dial). Just picked up mine couple days back from a reputed AD, new of course. There's a definitive click that you feel when activating the Chronograph function, and reset is just buttery smooth. This is one of those pieces that has to be worn to be appreciated really. Every angle, every play of light gives it so much substance that is lost, especially in static media. Kind Regards, Mike.
I'd say this is the NEW TRINITY of watches.
Lange has left AP into dust. AP is just Royal Oak nowadays, a one trick pony.
SpaghettiKillah it is
How dare you forget the legendary Code 11.59
Seriously. AP sucks.
3 very beautiful watches. I like them all but I like the A. Lange & Söhne the most, because of the date function. Thank you Hodinkee for an awesome video :D
Haha, "Relatively expensive"..
That's how you know that someone has completely lost touch with reality
Nathan Carter 😂😂😂😂
relatively expensive compared to a timex
I would choose the Lange even if it was in gold
And I fantasize about being able to get a Rolex 16610. Guess it's all relative.
I think lange is like 50 times better
Lange even without free sprung
really love the mood that is projected from all your videos. thanks for posting them.
Amazing review. Please keep it coming!!
Lange is the one to have and to cherish imo.
The other two are special, unquestionably but Lange is *the* reason that Patek has an in house chronograph movement and better finishing now. I am a big guy though with large wrists (19.75-19.8cm) so the larger case size isn't a big deal. Thickness is maybe more so but I 13ish mm is still cuffable for me and if I am being honest, I am a software engineer, the need for a dress shirt is confined to funerals and weddings.
It's really a no-contest, if it's good enough for Mr Dufour, then the choice is crystal clear.
Love these 3 on 3, please keep it up.
For my money I would go for the 39mm Dato in Platinum, or the 5170, I'll wait to see where the Harmony goes
Watch per watch the Dato wins to me. When talking value retention, obviousy the Patek it's a better purchase. Imho if the 5170 had at least one blue hand it'd look even more strinking. Maybe the chrono second hand. Also I remember when the Dato was 34K.
Lang > Patek > VC IMO.
Haha, that's funny. I've always seen it as VC>PP>Lange
flyingphoenix113 You're entitled to your opinion but why would you think VC is superior than Patek?
gulfmen86 More diversity of design in their model range (the artistic VC pieces are some of the most beautiful in all of horology along with Ulysse Nardin). In terms of engineering prowess, they currently set the bar in terms of the watch with the most complications, the Reference 57260. The finishing on most VC movements is marginally superior to that of Patek (though not quite to Lange standards). And, historically speaking, I think it's going to be extremely difficult for Patek to surpass VC. From Napoleon, the man who conquered most of the western world, to Harry Truman, the only man to order that an atomic weapon be used on another country, the VC owners list is just vastly superior (if you care about that sort of thing in the first place).
flyingphoenix113 I dont take fashion advice from Napoleon... you're free to do so though. End of the day, numbers dont lie. Pateks numbers are better than VC.
gulfmen86 Which numbers? Pateks usually have better resale value (especially the Nautilus vs. the Overseas and the Calatrava vs. the Patrimony). But, as I said alluded to before, in terms of who can successfully produce the most complications, that has been won by Vacheron (for now). I'm not sure which company produces more timepieces per year (assuming that to also be Patek), but, to a small degree, exclusivity is something I would value in a purchase like that.
Also, I wouldn't hate on Napoleon too much. His fashion was nowhere near as good as the various Hapsburg families, but it was not that bad. If such things mattered to a person they would probably own a Vacheron because it was worn by POWERFUL people, individuals who altered the very course of human history. Whether or not they are FASHIONABLE people would probably be rather irrelevant.
The Patek is perfect, elegant, wearable, collectible, will rise in value....just wonderful.
Those were some heavy hitters.......nice! I loved the look of the Lange movement!
Jack’s voice is buttery smooth.
The datograph is the one you want as an enthusiast. On the wrist, you’ll lean more towards the 5170. When you consider the price and how it will hold its value … the 5170 murders.
2 vids in a Row!!! This make me happy!!!!!
Considering Pateks are all over the place now, a VC that is sold much less, plus with a movement that may be sort of prototypic, the VC may very well retain or increase value better than the PP.
Love the bank vault door metaphor
Great review I wouldn't expect anything less from hodinkee , the L&S is such a beautiful timepiece and I love mass as I am prone to 41 to 44mm as bigger guy.
Dah-toh-graph us the clear winner!
My choice would be a Lange will be hopefully added one of these to my collection
I prefer the A Lange and Sohne watch.
Out of those 3, I'll take the Lange, of you have the money for a watch like that, chances are you have quite few more watches at home so the thickness of the Lange shouldn't be that much of a concern because you can have a Piaget to go with cuffs. Just My humble opinion.
All the comment majority here prefer Lange, it was the Ultimate watch!
When I watched this video 4 years ago I was for the datograph, yet this year i took delivery of the 5170P. How time changes our tastes and preferences.
I am completely the opposite 😃
There is something quietly elegant about most Vacheron designs and they are so comfortable on the wrist. I’m thinking of the Patrimony Tradit..
@hodinkee need to do more such videos and bring back 3 on 3
The 5170 is the most conservative and financially wise purchase, the Datograph is certainly the most beautiful and has a history with the most gravitas, but the most technically (and aesthetically) interesting one would have to be the Harmony. The coaxial steel chrono wheel is creative and the hands are absolutely mesmerizing, as is whatever technique they used to apply the indices. They look almost hand painted.
I like three on three so much!
the A lange retail price is more expensive than a BMW X5
That A. Lange is fucking gorgeous
I'm surprised ecodrive didn't make the list.😂
I cringed each time he called the Datograph a “dato."
I feel like the guard has changed. These represent the holy trinity (IMO). We should probably change it to the “big four” or “four horsemen” PP, VC, ALS, Breguet
More of this please.
I own a 5170j and wouldn’t trade it for either. I can buy a mint platinum datograph in the 40’s
And I have the Sea-gull 1963 column wheel chronograph.
The 37mm with Sapphire chrystal on a Rios Russian brown leather strap. I bought it from Poljot 24 in Germany.
I am poor and bought it as a timer watch for use in my photographic darkroom. Ideal because it has no lume to fog film.
I love it and use it as my daily wearer. Sorry to lower the tone of this rarified video. I go.
Congrats on an excellent video. Out of interest, where would you see the JLC Duometre Chronographe sitting in comparison to these three?
These are the best money can buy take your pick, amazing!
I take the VC no questions asked also it is somehow a better value for money regedless of price range. They are the grandmasters of honorology so that makes the others only pupils. LS is like Porsche a german masterpiece that makes an excellent daily however falls short to be a sunday special that what VC would be for me.
The 5170's pressers aren't nearly as buttery smooth as the datograph's...
The Lange is the most beautiful of the three.
That Patek is so beautiful. Too bad it costs as much as a condo.
I'll take any of those. Amazing pieces.
A. Lange & Soehne puts everyone else to shame. That's the difference between "watchmaking" and "making watches".
I don't know maybe I missed something but I'm still not sure which one he picked at the end??
So beautiful, I could wear Amy of them up side down just to look at the movement
+Simon Crane For days
+Simon Crane When do you think Rolex will go clear caseback?
Emil Jay I couldn't answer your question but if you ask ctj from the gentleman of leisure channel he's more clued up on watch history . Also if your on facebook check out the modern day watch enthusiasts group , you'll find a hive of knowledge there. Cheers
+Simon Crane poppin' up on ya :-D
ryvr madduck I don't think they need to . Unless the movement is extremely well decorated or intricate it just comes across as a bit gimmicky which rolex doesn't need to do .
Moissanite watch bezels instead of sapphire will be the next leap in watch-making
This part, I love VC
contraception @ 5:58?
so if i sell my 300 k house i can buy all these three watches? okay
VC Win~
The Lange is objectively the best watch. No question.
I love the Langhe and sohne but i could never wear anything that large.
Lange wins
I'll stick with the trusty Valjoux 7750 ;)
The fonts for the numbers spoil it for the VC and PP in my opinion. Kudos to Lange's datograph on using batons. But what do I know......way above my league. haha
Lange has taken that place from AP.
There is no AP without royal oak.
AP=royal oak
if you're buying a watch and worrying about value retention, then you probably are already in over your head. buy real estate or ETFs instead.
Some watches are investments, if you don't know
@@dannycortes4159 You're right. Less than one tenth of one percent of watches are classified as investment potential...I'd rather invest my money in less speculative asset classes, but to each their own.
It is kind of sad to see AP being silently replaced by A Lange and Sohne. AP really failed to keep up.
I’m a sucker for a good cushion case
These are beautiful and admirable watches but, per many of the comments here, way beyond my price range. The closest I'm gonna get to these is a little Junghans chronograph that I'm in the process of restoring myself!!!
I've noticed something. There is always a Vacheron Constantin. Hmmm
Vacheron is a bargain
I'd buy the alange
Beautiful!
Which watch did Ben Hodinkee choose?
I'd be elated with owning any of the three..
I think Jaeger-LeCoultre Duometre with dark dial would kick bootie of all of these three contenders in terms of pure beauty, aesthetics, and the masterpiece of a movement. It also looks incredible in action.
+Andrew Piatek I think the same, between these 3 and duometre, id choose JLC without thinking.
I think the only chronograph I am still interested in is the Seiko Spring Drive 55th Anniversary edition with the blue dial. Spring Drive makes for continuously smooth movement be forgoing escapement wheel altogether and using quartz regulator instead. They have two in NYC shop, one on display, and my face splat against the glass ogling. The only comfortable reason for me not to get is that it's a tad too large at 43.5mm. if it was like 41mm or less, I'd be jizzing my pants.
Andrew Piatek
Ive seen a GS (hi beat model) in real and i was impressed with such a great polishing and details that i havent seen before (in that price range) plus that hi beat movement is also breath taking. Now i could only imagine how it looks in real a buttery smooth spring drive chrono hand. From what i see from that specific spring drive model, the main problems are chrono buttons, in my opinion they looks so big and uncomfortable. Its a big money, so i guess you made rite decision.
I like big pushers, no problem. And I love what's on the dial.
What a heavy hitting episode
What’s the yearly income of people who usually buy these?
I adore that PP 😍
if someone could leave one of these on my doorstep I'd be very happy..thanks
are these "in-house" movements really better then the Lemania movements, if so, in what ways.....
+citygreek1 is gold really better than silver? Is a real diamond better than a synthetic one? If so in what ways...
+Dursun Kara didn't answer my question, as you didn't address the LeMania movement that Patek, and Vacheron used forever......and why the in house movements are better. I know gold is more expensive then silver, but silver is better then gold for some applications
One word, Lange...
Lemania, lemania.. isn't that breguet? So where is the breguet competitor.
Datograph All D Way. 😎
Vacheron in another level
make more of these.
Increible watches but you have to go with Patek just for the resale value...
Not sure the 5170 will ever pass the 5070s in price. I think they are just making many more of them these days.
liked before watching
Note to self, maybe for the audience this vid was made for these watches are just a drop in the bucket/relatively expensive. Just saying
Technical question here...what is the frequency of those watches? It seems to me that at least regarding the chronograph the Lange and Vacheron are nowhere near the smoothness of Patek's second hand...Especially the Lange second hand seems a bit "jumpy" to me...
Pp,is the most expensive but the movement not polish well
Id choose JLC duometre over any watch from the video
Lange is easily first with the Patek a very distant 2nd as it's only attribute is resale value. The hideous Vacheron is not even in the race.