Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts on these speakers. I have been struggling with the decision between LRS vs .7 vs 1.7 and I think it’s just going to come down to room size for me but hearing the discussion helps me to think through the problem. Thanks again!
I went from the older MMG to the 1.7. Honestly even the older MMG’s were damned good even up against the 1.7s. I would like to get the 0.7 but for some reason $1400 seems overpriced even though I bought the $3K 1.7’s as well. Personally all my money is in the amplifiers... Parasound HINT (240wpc 4ohms) and Mark Levinson (200wpc 4ohms to 400wpc 2ohms).
@@epi2045 hey man! I always see you on these forums. Lol. Hows the Levinson in comparison to the Parasound sound? I'm very close to accepting the 1.7i with gr research open baffle subs. I really wish I can hear the GR extremes before purchasing the Maggie's. They are close in price and i am under the impression they the extremes create the same magic as the Maggie's with actual weight. If this is the case, that would be the best speaker for me at any price. I'm debating on power. I am believing the JC 2 pre and A21+ would be the best set up. I am sold on the A21+ will more than likely be "the " amp but the pre is where I'm kind of torn. I wonder how it compares to the p6 ? Suttle difference isnt worth $1000s more but obvious "wow " difference does. I'm buying used. Maggie or Extreme. I was looking at the Bryson amps but apparently it's a bit "sterile" than the A21+ and more $$. I also looked at Anthen str and a few arcam models. I can say I heard an upper line Arcam in best buy and it was really much better to me than the McIntosh and flagship Marantz but it was like $5 grand. Lol. Thoughts?
Mr flimflam fremdippity danyet Hey I guess I’m famous by one person noticing my comments. Just kidding. I was thinking the same about the open baffle GR subs. Having owned retail and DIY equipment, the DIY GR open baffle subs are really tempting with the “textured / fast bass”. That seems to be a good match for Maggies. I have had so many subs in my life trying to match them to several pairs of Maggies I’ve owned. Keep me in the loop if you match the above configuration. As for amplifiers go... I’m all about solid state with a lot of mass for strong bass control and tube pre-amp front end for spatial essence. I’ve tried solid state pre-amp with tube power, tube preamp with tube power, and I’m convinced solid state amp with tube front end is the best if you have wide music taste (ie Beethoven, Patsy Cline, Rolling Stones, Diana Krall, Eagles, Pink Floyd, Beastie Boys, AC/DC, Guns and Roses, Post Malone, Alina Baraz, to Tame Impala in one listening session). I have owned several modern amps from Class D, H, and T topologies and they are all short cuts to power and low noise floor BUT they all are terrible playing at low volumes - they are dead sounding to me unless driven at high volumes. I do like playing my system loud at times but I prefer moderate volumes which I find the most difficult level to sound good. Anything that Parasound creates (less the rack style class D stuff) will always get my thumbs up. The A21+ are beautiful and have good mass and value. I talk about mass a lot but big hairy chested amps sound great at moderate volumes and killer at big volumes. I fell in love with ML and Parasound equipment because of the sound, craftsmanship, and customer service. Your choice of equipment to me is very good and has a lot of thought in sound quality and value. As for your JC 2 pre-amp... you may want to experiment... it’s a stellar pre-amp from what I have read BUT don’t be afraid to use a tube front end preamp. The A21+ I have heard many times and it’s awesome. Quick mention about Bryson amps - I agree they sound sterile but I have only listened to the old 15-20+ old models. Not sure if they have changed their sound in recent models.
Nostalgic mention of ProAc super tablettes there..they were the first speakers I actually bought when I was 18... Roksan Xerxes, Rega RB300 re wired with Van den hul,Audio Techica ATF5, Arcam Delta 90 on Sound organisation ZO21 stand, Naim naca5 and my ProAc on Target HJ24t stands... That was 1988, ten years after having interest in my grandfathers system..... ... The interest has never left me.. and will always be a link to my grandad.
Just did an A - B test of the LRS V .7 and its not even close. The .7 is a much bigger sound with more bass & power. My .7 image better than 99% of other speakers with a very well defined soundstage. It is real and I don’t know what kind of physics he’s talking about. Anyway, I-took the .7s home and they are outstanding.
You can close your eyes and point to the singers head on my Maggie 1.7i's. You know exactly where the drummer is. It takes lots of time to find the exact location and toe in. Unlike as you say the laws of physics which would only allow your ears to locate an inch high horizontal strip for location. Clamps down the horizontal axis. And so many speakers stagger the tweeter and mid making group delay to each ear even worse.
I am surprised by their statement that Maggies don't image at all. I run my .7 using the PS Audio BHK250 amp. With speakers about 5 feet from the front wall, the sound is presented in a very holographic and transparent way - it comes from behind the speakers with a wide and tall sound stage as if the performance is taking place right in front of me, and I can easily pinpoint instruments between the speakers and even outside of them in some cases. Example being the "Train Song" by Holle Cole where a minute or so into the track the sound from a triangle can be heard coming from the left of center then moving to the right. So, you can argue how well Maggies image, but not imaging "at all" is pretty extreme based on my personal experience. The comparison is good otherwise.
I owned a pair of Innersound Kaya electrostatics and they did sound stage and imaged like no other speaker I’ve heard. I had a Ayre SACD player and a VPI Turntable with and Aesthetics preamp, and a Manley Steelhead phono preamp, with a Benchmark DAC. I was in heaven
There's a lot of nonsense out there folks. Yes, the Maggie's are best with high power amps, but my 1.6QRs could sound pretty amazing with a Outlaw receiver. Now of course they sounded even better with my Stratus mono blocks, but within reason you can play .7 and LRS with modest power. "Good sound" is pretty darn subjective. I'm listening to expensive little Revel 126be monitors now, but you can get amazing music quality out of 500 dollar paradigms. Getting back to the Maggie's, the LRS have some advantages as they are easier to drive and may work better in certain rooms. And anyone who says Magnepan's don't image well, doesn't know how to set them up. My 1.6 pair could not image as well as my 3X more expensive Merlins, but they were still very good.
Really well done!!!! Thank you!!! Concert for George...The Inner Light performed by Anoushka Shankar and Jeff Lynne( and others)... is over the top... on You Tube... and if Anoushka's beauty is stuck in your head for the next week... well...You're Welcome...
I have to laugh. I have a pair of Spica TC-50's that I modified in the early 80's. I was introduced to them when I worked as an electronic tech at a place in Pittsburgh called OPUS one. To this day they are still one of the best imaging speakers I have ever heard.
Adrian, if you haven't already, listen to Sarah Morrau's cover of Both Sides Now. I never knew Joni Mitchell wrote it until you mentioned it recently along with how much you like Joni's recent version.
Very interesting and informative guys . Being a Quad 989 electrostatic user for many years i am now sorely tempted to give Magnepans a try. However before i do can you please define for me in length , width and height what you consider a small , medium and large room is ? Thanks !
Have have heard mixed reviews for the magnepan LRS and power requirements. Would the mcintosh mc302 and the mc 402 be enough to drive these speakers well?
I like the purity of single ended triode amplifiers which put out too little power for Magnepans. But I also prefer the speed and purity of planar speakers with their consistent impedance at all audio frequencies and the freedom from box sound. I have owned 0.7's for more than a year and my solution is to use my 45 triode amplifier pair to drive 833-A radio station transmitter tubes by transformer from 45 to grids of the 833-A's. The 833-A uses about 1000 Volts. I get the best of both.
Hi, I was wondering what is your opinion in the difference between Magnapan .7is and 1.7is ? i have the space for them both and have decided to use a Hagel 390 to drive the speakers. Where i live, it is impossible for me to be able to try both speakers before making a decision to buy one of the Magnapan speakers
True soundstage imaging does not seem possible unless you have all nonamplified instruments scattered around a stage and the only recording microphones are a single stereo pair.
The most important thing to consider over technical achievements is the connection you get with the emotion. A speaker can sound better in some aspects compare to another one but do not deliver the emotion. Connection with the human brain. No way to evaluate this in a scientific way.
Wow - I had nearly totally forgotten about Ring; blast from the past! I went there infrequently when I lived in Toronto; I spent more time at Bay-Bloor because it was very close to where I lived at Spadina & Bloor.
"Point source" localization is ARTIFICIAL. It unnecessarily adds the room acoustics to the original music. The solid/cohesive waves from maggies couple the original music to our ears as though we are holding a pair of high quality monitors at arm's length.
I'm thinking the statement of Magnepans not being able to image is a possible misunderstanding of the tech. Were it one big panel, he would probably be right. But it's not. It's strips, and the tweeter is a long vertical strip on one side that is 1/8th of an inch wide. While it's not a point, it's more of a line. So I imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) that the imaging would be anisotropic... meaning, very good on the horizontal axis and terrible on the vertical axis. You can also place the tweeters on the inside or the outside resulting in a wider sound stage and better imaging.
In defense of the LRS I heard the Maggie mini which are desktop speakers even smaller. I was shocked at the accuracy and clarity along with the Maggie sub. I have the .7 and love them. Never heard the LRS before but I’d imagine it’s a fast speaker.
Interesting observation about panels not being able to image. My apogee Centaurs created a pinpoint image that was an almost palpable image. If only I could audition a pair of LRS in Adelaide Australia.
Thanks for this video guys I've been looking over the magnepan lrs / 0.7. I'm hoping I can find a local hifi place to geek out at - or road trip to Canada some day ;) My biggest concern is amp ;) I'm building an m2x . The toroid is like 650kva. Knowing they have an option to test out in home makes me much much less nervous!
First great video and comparison. Second, holy cow, this is the first time I'm hearing from anyone about the fact that Magnapan's don't image like box speakers. I've been watching reviews after reviews talking about Magnapan's and how incredible they are , but if one's preference is pin-point imaging along with soundstage , like me, then these speakers would not be a good candidate therefore $700 or $2000 would not have been well spent. Thanks for shedding incredible light into this conversation. Haven't heard any in person so hope to experience them at one day regardless..
That is only one person's opinion and is the first time I have ever heard ANYONE claim that Magnepans don't image well. Listen to them yourself and ask yourself why this person would care to say publicly that Magnepans don't image well. I for one do not agree with him. Trust YOUR ears.
@@darylloth3237 I agree that it makes perfect sense for one/me to experience these speakers in person. I still intend to do so and make my own conclusion. I do however want to say that in this particular case, its not just the opinion of one person, but the opinion of three different people who clearly have their own taste for music and speakers. Additionally they are not just any 3 random people, they are three who come across all types of speakers and are also sellers of Magnapans so they wouldn't just throw an opinion such as that knowing it would deter some from going for these speakers. I think it brings into focus the reality that nothing beat first hand experience, even reviews from individuals with relatively greater experience.
It’s notable to suggest moving the speakers out from the wall when listening in a small room, but it ignores the fact that in a small room you don’t always have 5-6 feet to move away from the wall without them sitting in your lap. How will they sound when they’re 5 feet from the front wall but 3 feet away from your head? Not being smart but asking a legitimate question.
I just ordered the LRS+ (6 month wait) and because of my room size the lady I ordered from (I ordered directly from Magnepan) said she wouldn't recommend anything bigger for my room which is 10×18×10 depthxwidthxheight.
I believe my vintage 1095 Rotel 5.1 surround sound dedicated amp, which is rated conservatively by Rotel, at 200w per channel would do a fine job in powering either the both the LRSs or the .7s just fine. Any thoughts??
Space requirement of the Magnepan are a deal breaker for most I would assume. I was very intrigued by your various reviews of the Magnepan speakers but there is nowhere in my home where we have 4 feet from the wall as a starting point for the speaker. Only those with huge rooms need apply. *the amplifier you are discussing is another matter, as I would assume this is within the buying options of many and usable for most (a good call out and I might get one myself) I am still stuck on the positioning requirements of the Magnepan and how it doesn't really matter how nice they are or the price point if you have nowhere to set them up it seems a wasted exercise. How about a review of the better speaker options for those could swing ownership of a Hegel or Naim but with speaker placement (need to value every square foot) thx
i've had a pair for about 2 months now, and i have recently discovered that i prefer the sound closer to the wall than what is recommended. the top (tilted back) is about 18" out and i actually feel like it is more detailed, the very top end is less rolled off than when i pull them out further into the room - though i sit roughly 9' away as i don't have the space to move my couch further back. i wasn't sure i liked them at first, but after a few weeks, they became much less fatiguing and now they are by far the most detailed sounding things i've heard - almost like wearing headphones. the way they can reproduce the harmonics and overtones of complex chords - piano, brass, strings, guitar - blows my mind
Well now you got the LRS + mostly a newer stand which can help with sound, not sure what the other refinements are.. Wendell tends to hold back on what was specifically done to them. I had the 1.7i which where excellent but a tad too large.
Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but from what I can gather so far, it seems more important to allow Magnepan speakers to have adequate space away from BACK walls, but it’s not as critical to have space away from SIDE walls, since the speakers send sound to the back and front of the panels and not the sides? Also, what if at most I have 18-24” away from the BACK wall, but 36” is kind of pushing it? Can I still get good performance?
I have to blame the LS35?A for starting me down this obsession w/ audio. The real gateway drug. I just got a used pair of LRS with the intent of replacing crossover w/ outboard version from GR-Research. Huge Maggie fan Had the 2c back in the 80's and loved 'em. Gotta get one of my Odyssey Stratos monos repaired while I do the speaker mod. I accidentally shorted outputs on one of them. User error.....not fault of product. Modest wattage, but big current. Great amp for these speakers and relatively affordable.
of course you know that maggies require a high current amplifier which usually is ss. that usually means that the power increases significantly at 4 ohms over the 8 ohm rating. and it isn't necessary to go to high priced items like hegel. hopefully, you will provide a path for your customers to not overspend. with my MMGs, i use the venerable ADCOM 555II which has never faltered for me using ANY speakers in my realm. i too read all the mags back in the 70s and 80s. SR, HF, and my favorite AUDIO which is the one with the October Directory Issue, fondly called the Bible for us faithful readers. there were some very humorous listings of the fictional I. LIRPA products with outlandish specs. Trinity Sessions is a fantastic disc for soundstaging and deep bass as you hear it in large rooms like that (a church). wish you were here, is my all-time PF album was a revelation in rock-solid sounds that plumbed the depths in the lows and so hard-hitting in structural impact. my first listen left my jaw on the floor. imaging vs soundstaging...i will reserve my final opinion on that for the maggies. at the 2015 THE SHOW Newport, i heard a huge pair of Sound Labs ESLs playing a solo guitarist that i expected to extend from floor to the 6' top of the panel. instead, it gave us back a normal sized human and instrument. AMAZING. one item you didn't touch on was whether to place the tweeter on the maggies inside or out. i have always found that inside placement usually results in no diffraction from the baffle, thus better specificity. i have found that to be true and got started doing so since following the advice of Irving M. Fried, owner of IMF and Fried Products. try it. and pinpoint imaging came so very nicel from Quad 57s, provided that you listened from dead center with the tweeters aimed right at you. that may have been the best imaging and the most transparent presentation i have heard from a speaker. this was at Jona Miller Sound in the late 8s where i heard the incomparable Robers LS2/5a which i eventually ended up buying used a few months later from an individual. thank you for the great comparison of these maggies, i would very much like to have a pair of LRS but i suspect that may never happen. i have three sets of speakers here that i am not motivated to change any further. ...hifitommy
I have a vintage Rotel 1095 5.1 amplifier. It is rated conservatively at 200 watts per channel. I think this amp will drive the LRS's quite well. Any thoughts?
Can anyone advise if they think this system would sound good? I have a Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp and an Anthem MCA-225 for my amplification options. I would buy the LRS + and my listening space is a 22x30 detached insulated and drywalled garage in Chicago. There is furniture, carpets, rugs, artwork on the walls and plenty of curtains hanging on all interior walls minus the 8 foot party door and the 16 foot over head door on the opposite wall. Ceiling height is 8 feet. When in use, I could pull the speakers easily 4 feet into the room and have them as much as 4 feet from any side walls. My couch is on wheels and I can position it wherever needed. Probably 8 feet from the panels to my head and the speakers 7 feet apart. My source is 100 percent cd format of basically 1975 to 1990 classic rock. I enjoy casual listening at about 88db but like an occasional blast in the 97db region for short times. Would I absolutely need a couple of sub woofers? I'm not particularly a "bass head" but I do need some. I really like detailed midrange because to me, that's where the emotion and communication lies more. Please offer me some suggestions or advice. Thank you all!
Stereo Review, High Fidelity, and Audio never regarded sensitivity as an indicator of quality. The speakers they most praised were low efficiency such as the AR3 and KLH6. They DID measure transient response, bass frequency response and HARMONIC DISTORTION. Ported designs do not do well on this test which is why reviewers no longer perform it. (apart from laziness and low budget.)
I really miss those old magazine reviewers. They were mostly schooled electronic engineers, and were analytical, concentrated more on white and pink noise and distortion levels of speakers in various outputs, especially the way they took their readings off their electronic testing equipment. The graphs were insightful and squared with the auditions and reviews, more times than not and where there were sound anomalies, they seemed to be able to trace the cause and would give praise to accuracy and tonal timbre and balance. The developers of speakers back then concentrated more on sound realism and accuracy and less on sound staging and imaging. The sounds were less bright and more neutral and less fatiguing but they had a lot of their limitations as well, in comparison to speakers today.. Good review.
@@gregorytrane7828 I agree 100%. Today's "subjective" reviewers are hopelessly unsystematic and praise everything to the skies then add at the end "Of course I'm not saying it's better than MORE EXPENSIVE stuff I like!!" Audio has become a circle-jerk for artsy fartsies with trust funds.
The price delta between the LRS and 0.7 is too big. $650 vs $1,400 USD. Having owned the older MMG and larger 1.6/7, I would buy the 0.7 in a heartbeat if it was $1,000.
iM Nguyen iM Nguyen I bought the 1.7 then returned it and kept my 1.6. However my 1.6’s entire crossover was replaced by the Ninja XO with Cardas connectors. The upgrade made it sound better than both the standard 1.6 and 1.7. The upgrade cost was a little bit over $1K. In hindsight I would have just stayed with the 1.6 without the upgrade. The incremental difference between my modified 1.6 and 1.7 were so slight. If you have the 1.6, I think the 0.7 or 1.7 aren’t “worth it” upgrades. I would recommend saving up for the 3.6R which sound so much better... used prices are on par with the 1.7.
Doan Trinh I modded/upgraded the crossovers as well but could not get them to sound as good as the showroom. I guess I either didn’t have the listening space nor the amp to drive them properly and so gave up on them.
I am attracted to the LRS but seems every review spends way too much time on the amplifier and how it takes 2, 3, 4 tries to get it right. Not only getting it right but also expensive amps. I am getting the impression my Emotive rig would would sound bad. So far too finicky and I do not want a speaker that causes me to question and then buy a new amp.
@@54tristin What emotiva model? Drooling over the P6 because it has a high pass filter for the mains. I run a 2.1 audio only system. Highs Elac unifi UB5s and search on youtube on the copper box that rocks for the sub.
As an owner of the older MMG and larger 1.6/1.7... there’s a reason why they spend a lot of time on amplifiers. I went through 3 different amplifiers to sort out what I liked with the Maggies. I started out with a HK receiver, then a Parasound HINT, and finally a Mark Levinson power amp with custom tube pre-amp. Magnepans sound decent with modest amplifiers like the HK however they can sound amazing with great amplifiers. My Mark Levinson amp is “only” 100wpc @ 8ohms but it’s also factory rated at 200wpc @ 4ohms and 400wpc @ 2ohms. Interestingly both the HK (120wpc @ 8ohms) and Parasound (160wpc @ 8ohms) amps were higher wattage at 8ohms... they sounded thin.
scottyo64 superb amp recommendation. Much more heartening to hear than the Hegel stuff and it’s european price that keeps getting mentioned here. Question - why not try emotiva’s three way speakers too?
You guys are awesome and helped me tremendously with my LRS's. My question is this. I m at 8 months right now with my LRS's. I am contemplating doing the upgrade but want to make sure it is worth it. If I upgrade, I want to upgrade to the BEST Magnepan has to offer that I can afford, which would be the 1.7i's. So....... Should I just be happy and stick with the LRS or upgrade to the 1.7i? Is it worth it?
Good description about sound-stage verses imaging. It made me think 2 things, 1 is I've noticed upon some equipment upgrades that a better or truer, deeper & tighter(?) bass-response gives me a better sense of an orchestra's or band's hall size & 2, when i put in a true-mono m.c. cartridge, for up-to late 60's good mono recordings, (e.g. Decca, HMV, EMI & some gr8 unknown 2me labels) i get a much improved sense of a wide & deep... (compered to a stereo cart' playing Mono) ...& lifelike "Sound-stage" but no imagining & lack of imaging is, ive come to notice, what i care much less about. If all my 1000'ish L.P.s magically turnred into good qualith mono recordings like from those labels mentioned, i'd be a happier person as far as my L.P.s are concerned. Carts would be all-round better designes if they only had to deal with mono's purely horizontal modulations. Stereo is sometimes nothing but a gimmick & I've heard D.S.O.T.M. on t.o.t.r. late 70's Quadrphonic Q.S., S.Q. & CD-4 equipment & it's a gimmicky mess. The biggest thing you notice is that the bells go around the speakers ...whoopdi-doo, grrr8, while all else is the same with odd sounds coming from S.Q. & Q.S.'s mono rear channels CD-4 was discreet but still gimmick just 1 small step beyond stereo & for it's detriment. Mono was & is King, long live the King
bang-on topic again, these speakers sound wonderful from what i hear you all saying about them, I would love to sample a pair of these Maggie LRS at home but there's nobody in u.k. who does that, or even sells you the LRS's without asking a little over one-£ for every one-$ of their U.S. price, they can't be that heavy & big to cross the pond without some hi-if dealer on a disproportionately high profit-margin for serving you LRS's. After watching this vid i've realised my Jungson JA-99C power-amp will not cut it with these maggies, & you've convinced me before now from all your descriptions of it's sound signature that a Hagel is what i need before else, sadly that'll take longer
just curious, all those details that you guys mentioned you never heard from the music on your playlist before. are you saying you never heard them on your infinite more expensive systems?
:) yeah its weird , it is not a thing because the played it one the LRS or any other speaker. you can here those on other decent speakers to. by the looks they just never noticed. its to bad they dont know..... about the technique either
Very interesting comment about Maggies not imaging. My first high-end speaker was a pair of Magnepan 1.5 in about 1998. They sounded fantastic in the showroom, but I could never get them to work in my room. After about 2 years, I sold them and purchased a pair of Signet SL260s (bookshelf) which could disappear and image very well. From those I moved on to Proac 2.5s. Seeing all the hoopla about the LRS has me wondering if it was poor placement of the Maggies, or are they simply incapable of imaging? Maggie owners, can they image?
I had the exact same experience with the 1.6s in the showrooms as I could not get them to image worth a darn in my listening space. It was just like listening to a wall of sound with everything clumped together . Maybe the smaller LRS would be easier to setup.
The Hegel H90 drove both Magnepans? Now I am confused. I had always heard that Maggies were power hungry beasts and yet that particular Hegel is on 60w into 8ohms???
@Jason Reyes I'll have to look but, do amp manufacturers publish current ratings as part of the specs? If so, how do you determine what (exactly) a "high current" for an amp is?
redstarwraith It's not about the watts it's the current. The relationship between watts and current in amplifiers is similar to the relationship between horsepower and torque in an engine.
The LRS measures .... well random (i had one pair tweeters where different and i suspect the way they are tied down differently) , no bass. and falls off at 60-70 hz, just my 2 cents , and you can check the videos /measurements . things like you hear this cmpared to others etc. might be just because the FR is completely out of wack. if i make a speaker with +6 dB above 5Khz, you can say its real revealing i hear them even breath... bla bla bla. true but incorrect
Thanks guys! I was debating between the two and now going with the .7’s:) I still don’t know how a 60w (granted Maggies are 2-4ohm draw) Hegel can drive them sufficiently? I am figuring perhaps having to go with a Crown XLS to really drive these hard.
@@orwhat24 I actually went with a pair of Nord Acoustics NC500 mkii monoblocks (UK) with the Sonic Imagery option and really like them. Power to spare and very detailed. I am using a 6SN7 line stage/pre with them.
Francisco Alatorre it seems that they genuinely like and care about each other and that’s sometimes how good friends treat each other, especially when there is an older brother vs younger brother dynamic. I didn’t notice anything mean spirited about the jesting.
Magnepan speakers are a novelty at best. They draw so much power they destroy amplifiers, and the people that work there are not informed about the products enough to be answer questions about compatibility. Also, the sound is directional and don't film the room well. Buy SVS instead and save yourself the headache. These aren't "great," speakers by any measurement.
Andy B Most class D amplifiers don’t push enough current. Maggies are very low in their efficiency and and an amplifier that has large capacitors that can store a bunch of “juice” to be released on demand tend to work better. I own a pair of LRS and was using a Parasound HCA-1000 to drive them - HCA stands for high-current amplifier - and it sounded good, but I picked up a used Adcom GFA-585 and the difference is mind blowing! The sound stage is seriously more three-dimensional and the low end signals are tighter and more pronounced. This change is not subtle at all. I was expecting an improvement but was truly surprised at just how much of a difference it makes. The Parasound and Adcom amps have very similar specs -BUT - the Adcom is more than twice the physical size and has a way that it can move that high current that the Parasound doesn’t. I also think that the precision of the electronics is important. We acknowledge and locate sound with just our two little eardrums, so timing is really important. I feel that many higher quality amplifiers have the timing down better between the two channels - especially when moving through the frequency spectrum. I think a delay of just few couple milliseconds on one side or the other can be enough to collapse what would otherwise be a holographic soundstage.
How about a Emotive Basx A150, AB amp, 75 watts into 8 ohms and 150 into 4 but with restricted bandwidth. Maybe a A-300, 150 into 8, 300 into 4 but again restricted bandwidth maybe even higher distortion figures into 4 on both. The likleyhood of these living up to their potential seems low with the average say mid fi system. Thoughts?
@@briansimmons5363 I actually have a BasX 300 and it really sounds great to me on typical mid-fi dynamic driver speakers and vintage 70s monitors. I suppose it would drive LRS reasonably well, but I was really wondering how well something like a Crown XLS amp would work with LRS, or .7, or even bigger Magnepan speakers. I'm just speculating on how cheaply someone could assemble a fantastic "high precision" system, albeit without a whole lot of deep bass.
2-B.O.S.S Woofers per LRS , a crossover, momoblock......Now give her a shout. WOW PRETTY DARN GOOD RIGHT !!!! Why you putting your $20k speakers away now ??? THINK OUSIDE THE BOX. ALSO) with this setup keep your LRS at a 90 angel from the floor....NOT LEANING BACK.
@@JohnLee-db9zt Hence the reason for the comment. Sound is only as good as the source, the amplification, and the reproduction. Away back in the 70s the KEF motto used to be "If you can't hear the difference, don't pay the difference." In the end it's all about what you hear, with your ears.
this is hilarious and ridiculous. 2000+ dollars minimum for an amp for magnepans?! ha! what a joke these hifi snobs are! maybe that holds true for the dumb overpriced high end amps they're used to. when you have overpriced underpowered junk then a thousand bucks doesn't buy you much, sure. but in the modern chi-fi / budget hifi world of chinese manufacturing, and audio forums, extensive measurements and objective facts and reality, this is BOGUS! nothing wrong with class a/b, it has it's place, but we're in the age of class D, which offers SERIOUS affordable power that can easily drive magnepans to their max. there's many options, both DIY and finished products, that can easily do this job for 500 or less. just look at the higher powered amps on connexelectronic.com, such as: (class D, options from 200 to 700 w/ch into 4 ohms) connexelectronic.com/product/irs2092-stereo-amplifier/, their excellent class t (tripath) ta3020 based amp which I own and love (~200w/ch into 4ohms) connexelectronic.com/product/ta3020-audio-amplifier-v3d/, or for 2-4x the power the ta0105 based amp connexelectronic.com/product/ta3020-audio-amplifier-v3d/ or their incredible class a/b amp that can do 200w/ch into 4ohms at .001% THD: connexelectronic.com/product/aem6000-audio-amplifier-with-heatsink/ The above class D and T options are bridgeable so you can easily double or triple your output power by using one amp per speaker, and then you've got a dual monoblock setup if you're into that. The class D and T amps perform 100% equally well with an SMPS, so you can get a 2000w SMPS for 200, or a 3000 or 4000w smps for 300. This is if you want to do a LITTLE bit of DIY work, so easy anyone could do it, take you part of a day tops and that's if you take your sweet time. They also sell a fully complete package of many of their amps, including the previously mentioned class d with a power supply enabling it to do 600w, for $270 dollars!!!!!! connexelectronic.com/product/irs2600smps/ just put it in a case and you're done! These are audiophile quality amps if you're not too stuck up to actually be open minded and try them out, and have some understanding and appreciation and BELIEF in OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS! The products I listed above are literally their most expensive options period! The ta3020 package is 265 dollars for 400w/ch into 4 ohms, or if you bridge it and use one per speaker it can do 1340w! (that's 400w/ch single ended at .1% thd, it's ~200w/ch @ .02% or less [.005-.01 from about 1w to 100-150w]! I've owned one of their ta3020 amps for like 7 years, i leave it on 99% of the time all the time, and it's still going strong. all of the qualities they seek for driving the magnepans, the "grip" on the bass, this amp has in spades. these amps have an extremely high damping factor and tons of capacitance, they will grip any woofer or other type of speaker and literally murder it with bass, never letting go. the bass hits HARD and FAST AF, with tons of detail and texture. they're not warm and super natural/organic sounding, they're very neutral and analytical aka accurate, for good or bad depending on the recording. if a synth sound has a sharp edge to it, it's there and the immediacy and intensity is astounding. but softer recordings sound smooth and round as intended, and even edgier ones have very little inherent harshness in the treble. they can be a bit clinical (the ta3020, I honestly don't know if the ta0105 or class D options are the same or better or what), but hey if you prefer smoothness and warmth over pure analytical detail and accuracy, then get the class a/b amp that still has plenty of power, about equal to my ta3020. these amps can also be configured to be balanced with an 18 dollar module if you need that. The reason i have specific thd and power numbers is because these amps are well documented, you can look at a pdf that goes into great detail about the amps components and design. Bet you can't find this much info on these overpriced amps! Every critical component choice and value is explained and justified, like what mosfets and why, what caps, resistors, and inductors (output filters). No secrets, you could build it yourself with the info. That's how you know it's a good proper design and implementation of a given chipset/technology. There was a very similar ta3020 based amp from an overpriced hifi brand several years back that cost a couple grand, you can have it for 3 to 4 hundred bucks, maybe 500 tops all-in with a really high quality case and stuff! I don't even have a volume control on my amp because i control volume digitally with my DAC (I've also used a preamp but normally don't, but i plan on getting a THX headphone amp which doubles as a preamp, and it's endgame level good), and this amp is super quiet! I have 97db+ efficient speakers so if the hiss is this low for me, it'd work for anyone even when it's cranked, and i have mine set up for relatively high sensitivity and run a high supply voltage. You have to put your ear to the speakers to hear the faint hiss, and that's with horn mids! the point is, saying you need to spend 2 or 3 grand minimum for an amp just because you have a difficult to drive speaker is utterly ridiculous. there's many other great options besides the ones above. Topping, SMSL, Dayton, Crown, they all have audiophile grade amps that have the true 4ohm power ratings and high damping factor needed to drive these speakers to their full potential. A good class D/T implementation that has had the output filter designed correctly (which connex amps do!) will not sound harsh in the high end, it will roll off naturally where it should at the end of the audio bandwidth, with immeasurable distortion or aliasing or intermodulation distortion, etc. We're talking .02% on the high end at full power, and realistically much lower than that. These are amps so detailed that they will completely show you every change you make in the front end, from high end dacs and preamps or whatever. I use a Khadas Tone Board, and i've tried Modi 2 and an HRT music streamer ii, and the differences are clear [btw the khadas is by far the best, look it up... it's a 100 dollar dac, no case just the board, and it measures and sounds as good as any 1000+ dollar dac out there almost]. My amp is currently gripping the ever loving heck out of some JBL 2225H's and throwing them around with extreme precision like they're nothing, although granted they could handle more than 100-200w (they're 8 ohms).
Artcore103 you have a point but you also have to remember that these people are “hi-fi” sellers. They have to sell some products that they are selling. 😂 i personally wouldnt buy anything that expensive but still just listen to some of their opinions.
So that little Hegel was up to the task? Very interesting to me, since I've got a pair of .7s, and while they sound pretty darn good powered by excellent tube amps, I'm wondering what the speakers might sound like powered by a beefy SS amp or two. Gotta try a proper loaner to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks for another great video guys.
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
just curious, all those details that you guys mentioned you never heard from the music on your playlist before. are you saying you never heard them on your infinite more expensive systems?
Agree about the warmer tonality of the LRS+ vs. .7s. I got rid of my .7s and kept the LRS+. Always surprised by the LRS's for what they are.
Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts on these speakers. I have been struggling with the decision between LRS vs .7 vs 1.7 and I think it’s just going to come down to room size for me but hearing the discussion helps me to think through the problem. Thanks again!
I went from the older MMG to the 1.7. Honestly even the older MMG’s were damned good even up against the 1.7s. I would like to get the 0.7 but for some reason $1400 seems overpriced even though I bought the $3K 1.7’s as well. Personally all my money is in the amplifiers... Parasound HINT (240wpc 4ohms) and Mark Levinson (200wpc 4ohms to 400wpc 2ohms).
@@epi2045 hey man! I always see you on these forums. Lol. Hows the Levinson in comparison to the Parasound sound? I'm very close to accepting the 1.7i with gr research open baffle subs. I really wish I can hear the GR extremes before purchasing the Maggie's. They are close in price and i am under the impression they the extremes create the same magic as the Maggie's with actual weight. If this is the case, that would be the best speaker for me at any price. I'm debating on power. I am believing the JC 2 pre and A21+ would be the best set up. I am sold on the A21+ will more than likely be "the " amp but the pre is where I'm kind of torn. I wonder how it compares to the p6 ? Suttle difference isnt worth $1000s more but obvious "wow " difference does. I'm buying used. Maggie or Extreme. I was looking at the Bryson amps but apparently it's a bit "sterile" than the A21+ and more $$. I also looked at Anthen str and a few arcam models. I can say I heard an upper line Arcam in best buy and it was really much better to me than the McIntosh and flagship Marantz but it was like $5 grand. Lol. Thoughts?
Mr flimflam fremdippity danyet Hey I guess I’m famous by one person noticing my comments. Just kidding. I was thinking the same about the open baffle GR subs. Having owned retail and DIY equipment, the DIY GR open baffle subs are really tempting with the “textured / fast bass”. That seems to be a good match for Maggies. I have had so many subs in my life trying to match them to several pairs of Maggies I’ve owned. Keep me in the loop if you match the above configuration. As for amplifiers go... I’m all about solid state with a lot of mass for strong bass control and tube pre-amp front end for spatial essence. I’ve tried solid state pre-amp with tube power, tube preamp with tube power, and I’m convinced solid state amp with tube front end is the best if you have wide music taste (ie Beethoven, Patsy Cline, Rolling Stones, Diana Krall, Eagles, Pink Floyd, Beastie Boys, AC/DC, Guns and Roses, Post Malone, Alina Baraz, to Tame Impala in one listening session). I have owned several modern amps from Class D, H, and T topologies and they are all short cuts to power and low noise floor BUT they all are terrible playing at low volumes - they are dead sounding to me unless driven at high volumes. I do like playing my system loud at times but I prefer moderate volumes which I find the most difficult level to sound good. Anything that Parasound creates (less the rack style class D stuff) will always get my thumbs up. The A21+ are beautiful and have good mass and value. I talk about mass a lot but big hairy chested amps sound great at moderate volumes and killer at big volumes. I fell in love with ML and Parasound equipment because of the sound, craftsmanship, and customer service. Your choice of equipment to me is very good and has a lot of thought in sound quality and value. As for your JC 2 pre-amp... you may want to experiment... it’s a stellar pre-amp from what I have read BUT don’t be afraid to use a tube front end preamp. The A21+ I have heard many times and it’s awesome. Quick mention about Bryson amps - I agree they sound sterile but I have only listened to the old 15-20+ old models. Not sure if they have changed their sound in recent models.
I enjoy this channel very much.
Nostalgic mention of ProAc super tablettes there..they were the first speakers I actually bought when I was 18...
Roksan Xerxes, Rega RB300 re wired with Van den hul,Audio Techica ATF5, Arcam Delta 90 on Sound organisation ZO21 stand, Naim naca5 and my ProAc on Target HJ24t stands... That was 1988, ten years after having interest in my grandfathers system.....
... The interest has never left me.. and will always be a link to my grandad.
Just did an A - B test of the LRS V .7 and its not even close. The .7 is a much bigger sound with more bass & power. My .7 image better than 99% of other speakers with a very well defined soundstage. It is real and I don’t know what kind of physics he’s talking about. Anyway, I-took the .7s home and they are outstanding.
You can close your eyes and point to the singers head on my Maggie 1.7i's. You know exactly where the drummer is. It takes lots of time to find the exact location and toe in. Unlike as you say the laws of physics which would only allow your ears to locate an inch high horizontal strip for location. Clamps down the horizontal axis. And so many speakers stagger the tweeter and mid making group delay to each ear even worse.
The LS35/A and Spica TC-50s were important milestones in my audio journey. A rare couple of older speakers that are still excellent today.
I loved my Spica TC-50s. Amazing imaging, was able to integrate with subwoofer. Wish they were still in business...
I recently reaquired a pair of sl6si, I know what you mean.
I am surprised by their statement that Maggies don't image at all. I run my .7 using the PS Audio BHK250 amp. With speakers about 5 feet from the front wall, the sound is presented in a very holographic and transparent way - it comes from behind the speakers with a wide and tall sound stage as if the performance is taking place right in front of me, and I can easily pinpoint instruments between the speakers and even outside of them in some cases. Example being the "Train Song" by Holle Cole where a minute or so into the track the sound from a triangle can be heard coming from the left of center then moving to the right. So, you can argue how well Maggies image, but not imaging "at all" is pretty extreme based on my personal experience. The comparison is good otherwise.
5 feet away from the wall is almost the opposite wall in many downtown apartments. That makes these a non-starter.. 😅
I've found them to soundstage and image extraordinarily well - all the way back to my first pair, the MG-IIB.
I owned a pair of Innersound Kaya electrostatics and they did sound stage and imaged like no other speaker I’ve heard.
I had a Ayre SACD player and a VPI Turntable with and Aesthetics preamp, and a Manley Steelhead phono preamp, with a Benchmark DAC.
I was in heaven
There's a lot of nonsense out there folks. Yes, the Maggie's are best with high power amps, but my 1.6QRs could sound pretty amazing with a Outlaw receiver. Now of course they sounded even better with my Stratus mono blocks, but within reason you can play .7 and LRS with modest power. "Good sound" is pretty darn subjective. I'm listening to expensive little Revel 126be monitors now, but you can get amazing music quality out of 500 dollar paradigms. Getting back to the Maggie's, the LRS have some advantages as they are easier to drive and may work better in certain rooms. And anyone who says Magnepan's don't image well, doesn't know how to set them up. My 1.6 pair could not image as well as my 3X more expensive Merlins, but they were still very good.
This video is very organic
Really well done!!!! Thank you!!! Concert for George...The Inner Light performed by Anoushka Shankar and Jeff Lynne( and others)... is over the top... on You Tube... and if Anoushka's beauty is stuck in your head for the next week... well...You're Welcome...
Not sure I agree that panel speakers can't image because they aren't point sources. Neither is a multi-driver box.
It is always a pleasure listening to you guys - always on point!
32 mins of banter sounds “on point”? :)
Really enjoy listening to the host speak. Knowledgeable and we'll spoken.
I have to laugh. I have a pair of Spica TC-50's that I modified in the early 80's. I was introduced to them when I worked as an electronic tech at a place in Pittsburgh called OPUS one. To this day they are still one of the best imaging speakers I have ever heard.
you can laugh but the LRS blows the SPICA out of the water
@@mrgiggles7840 🙄
Adrian, if you haven't already, listen to Sarah Morrau's cover of Both Sides Now. I never knew Joni Mitchell wrote it until you mentioned it recently along with how much you like Joni's recent version.
Very interesting and informative guys . Being a Quad 989 electrostatic user for many years i am now sorely tempted to give Magnepans a try. However before i do can you please define for me in length , width and height what you consider a small , medium and large room is ? Thanks !
Years ago I had the Magnepan IIIa speakers so I suspect the NEW version to be better in some ways. I enjoyed the IIIa's overall.
Have have heard mixed reviews for the magnepan LRS and power requirements. Would the mcintosh mc302 and the mc 402 be enough to drive these speakers well?
I like the purity of single ended triode amplifiers which put out too little power for Magnepans. But I also prefer the speed and purity of planar speakers with their consistent impedance at all audio frequencies and the freedom from box sound. I have owned 0.7's for more than a year and my solution is to use my 45 triode amplifier pair to drive 833-A radio station transmitter tubes by transformer from 45 to grids of the 833-A's. The 833-A uses about 1000 Volts. I get the best of both.
Hi, I was wondering what is your opinion in the difference between Magnapan .7is and 1.7is ?
i have the space for them both and have decided to use a Hagel 390 to drive the speakers. Where i live, it is impossible for me to be able to try both speakers before making a decision to buy one of the Magnapan speakers
True soundstage imaging does not seem possible unless you have all nonamplified instruments scattered around a stage and the only recording microphones are a single stereo pair.
The most important thing to consider over technical achievements is the connection you get with the emotion. A speaker can sound better in some aspects compare to another one but do not deliver the emotion. Connection with the human brain. No way to evaluate this in a scientific way.
Wow - I had nearly totally forgotten about Ring; blast from the past! I went there infrequently when I lived in Toronto; I spent more time at Bay-Bloor because it was very close to where I lived at Spadina & Bloor.
"Point source" localization is ARTIFICIAL. It unnecessarily adds the room acoustics to the original music. The solid/cohesive waves from maggies couple the original music to our ears as though we are holding a pair of high quality monitors at arm's length.
go headphones then :) or a true line source. LRS is not one of them by far
Gateway drug? I love it!
I'm thinking the statement of Magnepans not being able to image is a possible misunderstanding of the tech. Were it one big panel, he would probably be right. But it's not. It's strips, and the tweeter is a long vertical strip on one side that is 1/8th of an inch wide. While it's not a point, it's more of a line. So I imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) that the imaging would be anisotropic... meaning, very good on the horizontal axis and terrible on the vertical axis. You can also place the tweeters on the inside or the outside resulting in a wider sound stage and better imaging.
You know what they say about assuming
I have the LRS Plus I like them a lot but it took a lot to set them up to get the best sound.Both amp and placement.
In defense of the LRS I heard the Maggie mini which are desktop speakers even smaller. I was shocked at the accuracy and clarity along with the Maggie sub. I have the .7 and love them. Never heard the LRS before but I’d imagine it’s a fast speaker.
Interesting observation about panels not being able to image. My apogee Centaurs created a pinpoint image that was an almost palpable image. If only I could audition a pair of LRS in Adelaide Australia.
Thanks for this video guys I've been looking over the magnepan lrs / 0.7. I'm hoping I can find a local hifi place to geek out at - or road trip to Canada some day ;)
My biggest concern is amp ;) I'm building an m2x . The toroid is like 650kva. Knowing they have an option to test out in home makes me much much less nervous!
Get a Jeff Rowland 125 and call it a day.
First great video and comparison. Second, holy cow, this is the first time I'm hearing from anyone about the fact that Magnapan's don't image like box speakers. I've been watching reviews after reviews talking about Magnapan's and how incredible they are , but if one's preference is pin-point imaging along with soundstage , like me, then these speakers would not be a good candidate therefore $700 or $2000 would not have been well spent. Thanks for shedding incredible light into this conversation. Haven't heard any in person so hope to experience them at one day regardless..
I am really shocked I've never heard I don't image well I thought that was the whole fuss about them wow
That is only one person's opinion and is the first time I have ever heard ANYONE claim that Magnepans don't image well. Listen to them yourself and ask yourself why this person would care to say publicly that Magnepans don't image well. I for one do not agree with him. Trust YOUR ears.
@@stephencosta6814 It's strange. My humble MMGs image extremely well.
@@darylloth3237 I agree that it makes perfect sense for one/me to experience these speakers in person. I still intend to do so and make my own conclusion. I do however want to say that in this particular case, its not just the opinion of one person, but the opinion of three different people who clearly have their own taste for music and speakers. Additionally they are not just any 3 random people, they are three who come across all types of speakers and are also sellers of Magnapans so they wouldn't just throw an opinion such as that knowing it would deter some from going for these speakers. I think it brings into focus the reality that nothing beat first hand experience, even reviews from individuals with relatively greater experience.
Vibrato is a way varying the pitch higher and lower around the main frequency. It can be broad or narrow or fast or slow or anything in between.
It’s notable to suggest moving the speakers out from the wall when listening in a small room, but it ignores the fact that in a small room you don’t always have 5-6 feet to move away from the wall without them sitting in your lap. How will they sound when they’re 5 feet from the front wall but 3 feet away from your head? Not being smart but asking a legitimate question.
Why not just jump to a 1.7i?
Big step up sound wise for not much more money
I just ordered the LRS+ (6 month wait) and because of my room size the lady I ordered from (I ordered directly from Magnepan) said she wouldn't recommend anything bigger for my room which is 10×18×10 depthxwidthxheight.
I believe my vintage
1095 Rotel 5.1 surround sound dedicated amp, which is rated conservatively by Rotel, at 200w per channel would do a fine job in powering either the both the LRSs or the .7s just fine.
Any thoughts??
Space requirement of the Magnepan are a deal breaker for most I would assume. I was very intrigued by your various reviews of the Magnepan speakers but there is nowhere in my home where we have 4 feet from the wall as a starting point for the speaker. Only those with huge rooms need apply. *the amplifier you are discussing is another matter, as I would assume this is within the buying options of many and usable for most (a good call out and I might get one myself) I am still stuck on the positioning requirements of the Magnepan and how it doesn't really matter how nice they are or the price point if you have nowhere to set them up it seems a wasted exercise. How about a review of the better speaker options for those could swing ownership of a Hegel or Naim but with speaker placement (need to value every square foot) thx
You only have to pull them out into the room for more critical listening.
i've had a pair for about 2 months now, and i have recently discovered that i prefer the sound closer to the wall than what is recommended. the top (tilted back) is about 18" out and i actually feel like it is more detailed, the very top end is less rolled off than when i pull them out further into the room - though i sit roughly 9' away as i don't have the space to move my couch further back. i wasn't sure i liked them at first, but after a few weeks, they became much less fatiguing and now they are by far the most detailed sounding things i've heard - almost like wearing headphones. the way they can reproduce the harmonics and overtones of complex chords - piano, brass, strings, guitar - blows my mind
i am trying to decide between the LRS+ and .7 ....i will be powering them with a Bryston 3B....or two Brystons if necessary.
Well now you got the LRS + mostly a newer stand which can help with sound, not sure what the other refinements are.. Wendell tends to hold back on what was specifically done to them. I had the 1.7i which where excellent but a tad too large.
Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but from what I can gather so far, it seems more important to allow Magnepan speakers to have adequate space away from BACK walls, but it’s not as critical to have space away from SIDE walls, since the speakers send sound to the back and front of the panels and not the sides? Also, what if at most I have 18-24” away from the BACK wall, but 36” is kind of pushing it? Can I still get good performance?
Kick the wife out and use the master as a listening room! Jk. Maggies will, in my book always sound better than traditional box speakers.
I have to blame the LS35?A for starting me down this obsession w/ audio. The real gateway drug. I just got a used pair of LRS with the intent of replacing crossover w/ outboard version from GR-Research. Huge Maggie fan Had the 2c back in the 80's and loved 'em. Gotta get one of my Odyssey Stratos monos repaired while I do the speaker mod. I accidentally shorted outputs on one of them. User error.....not fault of product. Modest wattage, but big current. Great amp for these speakers and relatively affordable.
I miss my small Apogee Centaur Minors and am considering the LRS. Difficult to get an audition in Australia anywhere. So I'm hesitant.
of course you know that maggies require a high current amplifier which usually is ss. that usually means that the power increases significantly at 4 ohms over the 8 ohm rating. and it isn't necessary to go to high priced items like hegel. hopefully, you will provide a path for your customers to not overspend.
with my MMGs, i use the venerable ADCOM 555II which has never faltered for me using ANY speakers in my realm.
i too read all the mags back in the 70s and 80s. SR, HF, and my favorite AUDIO which is the one with the October Directory Issue, fondly called the Bible for us faithful readers. there were some very humorous listings of the fictional I. LIRPA products with outlandish specs.
Trinity Sessions is a fantastic disc for soundstaging and deep bass as you hear it in large rooms like that (a church).
wish you were here, is my all-time PF album was a revelation in rock-solid sounds that plumbed the depths in the lows and so hard-hitting in structural impact. my first listen left my jaw on the floor.
imaging vs soundstaging...i will reserve my final opinion on that for the maggies. at the 2015 THE SHOW Newport, i heard a huge pair of Sound Labs ESLs playing a solo guitarist that i expected to extend from floor to the 6' top of the panel. instead, it gave us back a normal sized human and instrument. AMAZING.
one item you didn't touch on was whether to place the tweeter on the maggies inside or out. i have always found that inside placement usually results in no diffraction from the baffle, thus better specificity. i have found that to be true and got started doing so since following the advice of Irving M. Fried, owner of IMF and Fried Products. try it.
and pinpoint imaging came so very nicel from Quad 57s, provided that you listened from dead center with the tweeters aimed right at you. that may have been the best imaging and the most transparent presentation i have heard from a speaker. this was at Jona Miller Sound in the late 8s where i heard the incomparable Robers LS2/5a which i eventually ended up buying used a few months later from an individual.
thank you for the great comparison of these maggies, i would very much like to have a pair of LRS but i suspect that may never happen. i have three sets of speakers here that i am not motivated to change any further.
...hifitommy
I have a vintage Rotel 1095 5.1 amplifier. It is rated conservatively at
200 watts per channel.
I think this amp will drive the LRS's quite well.
Any thoughts?
Can anyone advise if they think this system would sound good? I have a Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp and an Anthem MCA-225 for my amplification options. I would buy the LRS + and my listening space is a 22x30 detached insulated and drywalled garage in Chicago. There is furniture, carpets, rugs, artwork on the walls and plenty of curtains hanging on all interior walls minus the 8 foot party door and the 16 foot over head door on the opposite wall. Ceiling height is 8 feet. When in use, I could pull the speakers easily 4 feet into the room and have them as much as 4 feet from any side walls. My couch is on wheels and I can position it wherever needed. Probably 8 feet from the panels to my head and the speakers 7 feet apart. My source is 100 percent cd format of basically 1975 to 1990 classic rock. I enjoy casual listening at about 88db but like an occasional blast in the 97db region for short times. Would I absolutely need a couple of sub woofers? I'm not particularly a "bass head" but I do need some. I really like detailed midrange because to me, that's where the emotion and communication lies more. Please offer me some suggestions or advice. Thank you all!
Audio is also slightly out of sync
Stereo Review, High Fidelity, and Audio never regarded sensitivity as an indicator of quality. The speakers they most praised were low efficiency such as the AR3 and KLH6. They DID measure transient response, bass frequency response and HARMONIC DISTORTION. Ported designs do not do well on this test which is why reviewers no longer perform it. (apart from laziness and low budget.)
I really miss those old magazine reviewers. They were mostly schooled electronic engineers, and were analytical, concentrated more on white and pink noise and distortion levels of speakers in various outputs, especially the way they took their readings off their electronic testing equipment. The graphs were insightful and squared with the auditions and reviews, more times than not and where there were sound anomalies, they seemed to be able to trace the cause and would give praise to accuracy and tonal timbre and balance. The developers of speakers back then concentrated more on sound realism and accuracy and less on sound staging and imaging. The sounds were less bright and more neutral and less fatiguing but they had a lot of their limitations as well, in comparison to speakers today.. Good review.
@@gregorytrane7828 I agree 100%. Today's "subjective" reviewers are hopelessly unsystematic and praise everything to the skies then add at the end "Of course I'm not saying it's better than MORE EXPENSIVE stuff I like!!" Audio has become a circle-jerk for artsy fartsies with trust funds.
The price delta between the LRS and 0.7 is too big. $650 vs $1,400 USD. Having owned the older MMG and larger 1.6/7, I would buy the 0.7 in a heartbeat if it was $1,000.
Doan Trinh is there much to gain going from the 1.6s to a .7 or 1.7? I’ve not heard the newer models but I it’s a lateral upgrade.
iM Nguyen iM Nguyen I bought the 1.7 then returned it and kept my 1.6. However my 1.6’s entire crossover was replaced by the Ninja XO with Cardas connectors. The upgrade made it sound better than both the standard 1.6 and 1.7. The upgrade cost was a little bit over $1K. In hindsight I would have just stayed with the 1.6 without the upgrade. The incremental difference between my modified 1.6 and 1.7 were so slight. If you have the 1.6, I think the 0.7 or 1.7 aren’t “worth it” upgrades. I would recommend saving up for the 3.6R which sound so much better... used prices are on par with the 1.7.
Doan Trinh I modded/upgraded the crossovers as well but could not get them to sound as good as the showroom. I guess I either didn’t have the listening space nor the amp to drive them properly and so gave up on them.
I am attracted to the LRS but seems every review spends way too much time on the amplifier and how it takes 2, 3, 4 tries to get it right. Not only getting it right but also expensive amps. I am getting the impression my Emotive rig would would sound bad. So far too finicky and I do not want a speaker that causes me to question and then buy a new amp.
Brian Simmons I have a pair of .7 they sound great with my Emotiva 200 watt/channel being driven by a parasound P6!
@@54tristin What emotiva model? Drooling over the P6 because it has a high pass filter for the mains. I run a 2.1 audio only system. Highs Elac unifi UB5s and search on youtube on the copper box that rocks for the sub.
@@briansimmons5363
I run my LRSs with an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3 and it works very well.
As an owner of the older MMG and larger 1.6/1.7... there’s a reason why they spend a lot of time on amplifiers. I went through 3 different amplifiers to sort out what I liked with the Maggies. I started out with a HK receiver, then a Parasound HINT, and finally a Mark Levinson power amp with custom tube pre-amp. Magnepans sound decent with modest amplifiers like the HK however they can sound amazing with great amplifiers. My Mark Levinson amp is “only” 100wpc @ 8ohms but it’s also factory rated at 200wpc @ 4ohms and 400wpc @ 2ohms.
Interestingly both the HK (120wpc @ 8ohms) and Parasound (160wpc @ 8ohms) amps were higher wattage at 8ohms... they sounded thin.
scottyo64 superb amp recommendation. Much more heartening to hear than the Hegel stuff and it’s european price that keeps getting mentioned here. Question - why not try emotiva’s three way speakers too?
How about the LRS + ? Does that have a place in that list?
You guys are awesome and helped me tremendously with my LRS's. My question is this. I m at 8 months right now with my LRS's. I am contemplating doing the upgrade but want to make sure it is worth it. If I upgrade, I want to upgrade to the BEST Magnepan has to offer that I can afford, which would be the 1.7i's. So....... Should I just be happy and stick with the LRS or upgrade to the 1.7i? Is it worth it?
yes!, the 1.7i's are worth it - I had MMG's for 19 years - great speakers, but the 1.7i's are an improvement
Great explanation in the caveats of the soundstage and the lack of imaging with the Magnepan speakers.
Good description about sound-stage verses imaging. It made me think 2 things, 1 is I've noticed upon some equipment upgrades that a better or truer, deeper & tighter(?) bass-response gives me a better sense of an orchestra's or band's hall size & 2, when i put in a true-mono m.c. cartridge, for up-to late 60's good mono recordings, (e.g. Decca, HMV, EMI & some gr8 unknown 2me labels) i get a much improved sense of a wide & deep... (compered to a stereo cart' playing Mono) ...& lifelike "Sound-stage" but no imagining & lack of imaging is, ive come to notice, what i care much less about. If all my 1000'ish L.P.s magically turnred into good qualith mono recordings like from those labels mentioned, i'd be a happier person as far as my L.P.s are concerned. Carts would be all-round better designes if they only had to deal with mono's purely horizontal modulations. Stereo is sometimes nothing but a gimmick & I've heard D.S.O.T.M. on t.o.t.r. late 70's Quadrphonic Q.S., S.Q. & CD-4 equipment & it's a gimmicky mess. The biggest thing you notice is that the bells go around the speakers ...whoopdi-doo, grrr8, while all else is the same with odd sounds coming from S.Q. & Q.S.'s mono rear channels CD-4 was discreet but still gimmick just 1 small step beyond stereo & for it's detriment. Mono was & is King, long live the King
Got the lrs's ordered. 5 month wait.
Hi , I wonder you get my email. I sent around Sunday but still no reply
bang-on topic again, these speakers sound wonderful from what i hear you all saying about them, I would love to sample a pair of these Maggie LRS at home but there's nobody in u.k. who does that, or even sells you the LRS's without asking a little over one-£ for every one-$ of their U.S. price, they can't be that heavy & big to cross the pond without some hi-if dealer on a disproportionately high profit-margin for serving you LRS's. After watching this vid i've realised my Jungson JA-99C power-amp will not cut it with these maggies, & you've convinced me before now from all your descriptions of it's sound signature that a Hagel is what i need before else, sadly that'll take longer
just curious, all those details that you guys mentioned you never heard from the music on your playlist before. are you saying you never heard them on your infinite more expensive systems?
:) yeah its weird , it is not a thing because the played it one the LRS or any other speaker. you can here those on other decent speakers to. by the looks they just never noticed. its to bad they dont know..... about the technique either
Steve Guttenberg feels the same, a great moment in audiophile life.
Do you think 0.7 sounds good with Mcintosh MC 302?
I'm glad that room size was mentioned. Don't you think that each speaker should be measured by their appropriate room size?
Very interesting comment about Maggies not imaging. My first high-end speaker was a pair of Magnepan 1.5 in about 1998. They sounded fantastic in the showroom, but I could never get them to work in my room. After about 2 years, I sold them and purchased a pair of Signet SL260s (bookshelf) which could disappear and image very well. From those I moved on to Proac 2.5s. Seeing all the hoopla about the LRS has me wondering if it was poor placement of the Maggies, or are they simply incapable of imaging? Maggie owners, can they image?
Yes they can and do so well. I don't know what these guys are talking about not imaging. Maybe we hear imaging differently?
I had the exact same experience with the 1.6s in the showrooms as I could not get them to image worth a darn in my listening space. It was just like listening to a wall of sound with everything clumped together . Maybe the smaller LRS would be easier to setup.
Can a Krell KHA300 power the .7i speakers.
Just watched this and Jay looks like he hates this! LMAOROTF.
The Hegel H90 drove both Magnepans? Now I am confused. I had always heard that Maggies were power hungry beasts and yet that particular Hegel is on 60w into 8ohms???
Ah...Okay, Maggies are 4ohm speakers... I see that now.
@@redstarwraith I currently power MG 1.7s with a 60wpc tube amp just fine. it all depends on your room and listening habits.
@Jason Reyes I'll have to look but, do amp manufacturers publish current ratings as part of the specs? If so, how do you determine what (exactly) a "high current" for an amp is?
redstarwraith It's not about the watts it's the current. The relationship between watts and current in amplifiers is similar to the relationship between horsepower and torque in an engine.
@@hitechburg that may be the single most helpful analogy anyone has ever given to me on this issue. Thank you!
LRS is extremely finicky with placement and amplification AND without a doubt it needs a subwoofer.
Just to be clear, there is no “0.7i” - .7 is the model number.
The LRS measures .... well random (i had one pair tweeters where different and i suspect the way they are tied down differently) , no bass. and falls off at 60-70 hz, just my 2 cents , and you can check the videos /measurements . things like you hear this cmpared to others etc. might be just because the FR is completely out of wack. if i make a speaker with +6 dB above 5Khz, you can say its real revealing i hear them even breath... bla bla bla. true but incorrect
Thanks guys! I was debating between the two and now going with the .7’s:) I still don’t know how a 60w (granted Maggies are 2-4ohm
draw) Hegel can drive them sufficiently? I am figuring perhaps having to go with a Crown XLS to really drive these hard.
Can you report back on that amp choice?
@@orwhat24 I actually went with a pair of Nord Acoustics NC500 mkii monoblocks (UK)
with the Sonic Imagery option and really like them. Power to spare and very detailed. I am using a 6SN7 line stage/pre with them.
Do you guys think an original Nait 5i would work to drive an LRS or perhaps even .7 ?
I like the channel but It's very uncomfortable to watch how the person in the middle is always bullying Jay and thinks he's funny.
Francisco Alatorre it seems that they genuinely like and care about each other and that’s sometimes how good friends treat each other, especially when there is an older brother vs younger brother dynamic. I didn’t notice anything mean spirited about the jesting.
@@CaptainCrunch823 Exactly!
Lol , I did the same ! 13:02
Large deep diffusers wil solve your .7 problem
Magnepan speakers are a novelty at best. They draw so much power they destroy amplifiers, and the people that work there are not informed about the products enough to be answer questions about compatibility. Also, the sound is directional and don't film the room well. Buy SVS instead and save yourself the headache. These aren't "great," speakers by any measurement.
Would a high quality class D amp possibly be a reasonable match for the smaller Magnepan speakers?
Andy B
Most class D amplifiers don’t push enough current. Maggies are very low in their efficiency and and an amplifier that has large capacitors that can store a bunch of “juice” to be released on demand tend to work better.
I own a pair of LRS and was using a Parasound HCA-1000 to drive them - HCA stands for high-current amplifier - and it sounded good, but I picked up a used Adcom GFA-585 and the difference is mind blowing! The sound stage is seriously more three-dimensional and the low end signals are tighter and more pronounced. This change is not subtle at all. I was expecting an improvement but was truly surprised at just how much of a difference it makes. The Parasound and Adcom amps have very similar specs -BUT - the Adcom is more than twice the physical size and has a way that it can move that high current that the Parasound doesn’t.
I also think that the precision of the electronics is important. We acknowledge and locate sound with just our two little eardrums, so timing is really important. I feel that many higher quality amplifiers have the timing down better between the two channels - especially when moving through the frequency spectrum. I think a delay of just few couple milliseconds on one side or the other can be enough to collapse what would otherwise be a holographic soundstage.
How about a Emotive Basx A150, AB amp, 75 watts into 8 ohms and 150 into 4 but with restricted bandwidth. Maybe a A-300, 150 into 8, 300 into 4 but again restricted bandwidth maybe even higher distortion figures into 4 on both. The likleyhood of these living up to their potential seems low with the average say mid fi system. Thoughts?
@@briansimmons5363 I actually have a BasX 300 and it really sounds great to me on typical mid-fi dynamic driver speakers and vintage 70s monitors. I suppose it would drive LRS reasonably well, but I was really wondering how well something like a Crown XLS amp would work with LRS, or .7, or even bigger Magnepan speakers. I'm just speculating on how cheaply someone could assemble a fantastic "high precision" system, albeit without a whole lot of deep bass.
I may be wrong, but I believe Hegel amps are class D.
@@larryhoffman7471 hegel amps are class A/B
2-B.O.S.S Woofers per LRS , a crossover, momoblock......Now give her a shout. WOW PRETTY DARN GOOD RIGHT !!!! Why you putting your $20k speakers away now ??? THINK OUSIDE THE BOX. ALSO) with this setup keep your LRS at a 90 angel from the floor....NOT LEANING BACK.
These guys are reviewing and commenting on high end audio equipment, yet the sound quality of their UA-cam audio is pathetic.
You do realized it’s UA-cam compressed low res audio that they have no control over? Blame UA-cam.
@@JohnLee-db9zt Hence the reason for the comment. Sound is only as good as the source, the amplification, and the reproduction. Away back in the 70s the KEF motto used to be "If you can't hear the difference, don't pay the difference." In the end it's all about what you hear, with your ears.
Pathetic? It sounds like Jay's microphone wasn't working so they used another mic source. Chill out dude it was early!
this is hilarious and ridiculous. 2000+ dollars minimum for an amp for magnepans?! ha! what a joke these hifi snobs are!
maybe that holds true for the dumb overpriced high end amps they're used to. when you have overpriced underpowered junk then a thousand bucks doesn't buy you much, sure.
but in the modern chi-fi / budget hifi world of chinese manufacturing, and audio forums, extensive measurements and objective facts and reality, this is BOGUS! nothing wrong with class a/b, it has it's place, but we're in the age of class D, which offers SERIOUS affordable power that can easily drive magnepans to their max.
there's many options, both DIY and finished products, that can easily do this job for 500 or less. just look at the higher powered amps on connexelectronic.com, such as: (class D, options from 200 to 700 w/ch into 4 ohms) connexelectronic.com/product/irs2092-stereo-amplifier/, their excellent class t (tripath) ta3020 based amp which I own and love (~200w/ch into 4ohms) connexelectronic.com/product/ta3020-audio-amplifier-v3d/, or for 2-4x the power the ta0105 based amp connexelectronic.com/product/ta3020-audio-amplifier-v3d/
or their incredible class a/b amp that can do 200w/ch into 4ohms at .001% THD: connexelectronic.com/product/aem6000-audio-amplifier-with-heatsink/
The above class D and T options are bridgeable so you can easily double or triple your output power by using one amp per speaker, and then you've got a dual monoblock setup if you're into that. The class D and T amps perform 100% equally well with an SMPS, so you can get a 2000w SMPS for 200, or a 3000 or 4000w smps for 300. This is if you want to do a LITTLE bit of DIY work, so easy anyone could do it, take you part of a day tops and that's if you take your sweet time.
They also sell a fully complete package of many of their amps, including the previously mentioned class d with a power supply enabling it to do 600w, for $270 dollars!!!!!! connexelectronic.com/product/irs2600smps/
just put it in a case and you're done!
These are audiophile quality amps if you're not too stuck up to actually be open minded and try them out, and have some understanding and appreciation and BELIEF in OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS! The products I listed above are literally their most expensive options period! The ta3020 package is 265 dollars for 400w/ch into 4 ohms, or if you bridge it and use one per speaker it can do 1340w! (that's 400w/ch single ended at .1% thd, it's ~200w/ch @ .02% or less [.005-.01 from about 1w to 100-150w]! I've owned one of their ta3020 amps for like 7 years, i leave it on 99% of the time all the time, and it's still going strong. all of the qualities they seek for driving the magnepans, the "grip" on the bass, this amp has in spades. these amps have an extremely high damping factor and tons of capacitance, they will grip any woofer or other type of speaker and literally murder it with bass, never letting go. the bass hits HARD and FAST AF, with tons of detail and texture. they're not warm and super natural/organic sounding, they're very neutral and analytical aka accurate, for good or bad depending on the recording. if a synth sound has a sharp edge to it, it's there and the immediacy and intensity is astounding. but softer recordings sound smooth and round as intended, and even edgier ones have very little inherent harshness in the treble. they can be a bit clinical (the ta3020, I honestly don't know if the ta0105 or class D options are the same or better or what), but hey if you prefer smoothness and warmth over pure analytical detail and accuracy, then get the class a/b amp that still has plenty of power, about equal to my ta3020.
these amps can also be configured to be balanced with an 18 dollar module if you need that.
The reason i have specific thd and power numbers is because these amps are well documented, you can look at a pdf that goes into great detail about the amps components and design. Bet you can't find this much info on these overpriced amps! Every critical component choice and value is explained and justified, like what mosfets and why, what caps, resistors, and inductors (output filters). No secrets, you could build it yourself with the info. That's how you know it's a good proper design and implementation of a given chipset/technology. There was a very similar ta3020 based amp from an overpriced hifi brand several years back that cost a couple grand, you can have it for 3 to 4 hundred bucks, maybe 500 tops all-in with a really high quality case and stuff! I don't even have a volume control on my amp because i control volume digitally with my DAC (I've also used a preamp but normally don't, but i plan on getting a THX headphone amp which doubles as a preamp, and it's endgame level good), and this amp is super quiet! I have 97db+ efficient speakers so if the hiss is this low for me, it'd work for anyone even when it's cranked, and i have mine set up for relatively high sensitivity and run a high supply voltage. You have to put your ear to the speakers to hear the faint hiss, and that's with horn mids!
the point is, saying you need to spend 2 or 3 grand minimum for an amp just because you have a difficult to drive speaker is utterly ridiculous. there's many other great options besides the ones above. Topping, SMSL, Dayton, Crown, they all have audiophile grade amps that have the true 4ohm power ratings and high damping factor needed to drive these speakers to their full potential. A good class D/T implementation that has had the output filter designed correctly (which connex amps do!) will not sound harsh in the high end, it will roll off naturally where it should at the end of the audio bandwidth, with immeasurable distortion or aliasing or intermodulation distortion, etc. We're talking .02% on the high end at full power, and realistically much lower than that. These are amps so detailed that they will completely show you every change you make in the front end, from high end dacs and preamps or whatever. I use a Khadas Tone Board, and i've tried Modi 2 and an HRT music streamer ii, and the differences are clear [btw the khadas is by far the best, look it up... it's a 100 dollar dac, no case just the board, and it measures and sounds as good as any 1000+ dollar dac out there almost]. My amp is currently gripping the ever loving heck out of some JBL 2225H's and throwing them around with extreme precision like they're nothing, although granted they could handle more than 100-200w (they're 8 ohms).
Artcore103 you have a point but you also have to remember that these people are “hi-fi” sellers. They have to sell some products that they are selling. 😂 i personally wouldnt buy anything that expensive but still just listen to some of their opinions.
Errrrrrr. I hate when this video pops up. How many time can I thumbs down. Gees
Big boy in the middle could loose a few pounds
So that little Hegel was up to the task? Very interesting to me, since I've got a pair of .7s, and while they sound pretty darn good powered by excellent tube amps, I'm wondering what the speakers might sound like powered by a beefy SS amp or two. Gotta try a proper loaner to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks for another great video guys.
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
just curious, all those details that you guys mentioned you never heard from the music on your playlist before. are you saying you never heard them on your infinite more expensive systems?