Still, this is one of the best soldering tutorial on UA-cam, for a beginner like me who has only soldered my dad's watchband buckle as a prank when I was stupid-14... A useful and super simple project, thanks!
the fact that I'm seeing so many more people actually start getting into audio is really making me happy. I started making videos almost 20 years ago about how to get decent sound in a car just using inexpensive components and I'm really glad that's really grown
ugh. Kit crossover circuits should be super simple to read. With a little work you can use a pencil and redraw the logical circuit into a physical one to get your head around it.
i'm sure it's been said, but for the jumper connections (and any other), a solid way i've found to mechanically join two leads is, to fold the exposed wire in half with the fold about 90 degrees or so, then join them by hooking onto each other like you would hook your index fingers together, fold each wire all the way back onto itself, and press with pliers. then solder. that way it'll likely still hold connection even if the solder joint fails. i don't know what the audio qualities of solder are, but i try to make sure all connections are metal-to-metal pretty solidly, so that the solder is just there to coat the connection and hopefully stave off corrosion for longer. also, lead-free solder and silver solder is garbage and not friendly to work with. standard .031", 63/37% solder is tried and true. don't make life harder on yourself just to have a false sense that you're helping the environment. there are better ways to do that.
LOL I just finished watching last night's live stream and this popped up. I now get why Danny Richie, from GR Research, prefers point-to-point contact versus PCB board style crossovers. With point-to-point connection you tend to get a better mechanical connection otherwise. Randy I think with some of those leads, it might have been advantageous to run a jumper with a mechanical connection versus just having them touching each other and soldering them together.
Hey Randall, nice video! Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction. On the back side of your crossover, you could use hot glue to affix the solder joints and jumpers to the back of the crossover board. Doing so might reduce the chance sympathetic vibration and reduce stress on the solder joints. The same could be done to the lead pass-through(s). If you ever need to remove the hot glue, use isopropyl alcohol. Holding the leads together you could use a alligator clip, then solder (also works as a heatsink) while soldering. Usually hot glue is a non-conductive adhesive.
DIY and factory crossover mods are the way to go. Great idea to show it to the people... 😁 I would use better cap on the tweeter, better resistors on the tweeter... Add 0.1uf high quality bypass on the tweeter cap. If you had more handy long nose pliers it would allow you to twist leads together with more pressision than I would use sharp mini electonics wire cutters to cut off excess leads and than solder right over where you have twisted them and cut off excess. Also if you have a speaker cables already and want to use them than use solder them direct to crossover... This way you can save and not use brass or metalic binding posts... it helps with better clarity .
Good advice. I'd also recommend detaching the x-o from mounting directly to the cabinet (to negate cabinet resonances from x-ferring to the x-o) and instead use a piece of foam under the x-o and secure it to the cabinet wall via eyescrews and zip ties or cord.
LOL, my first new car was a Chevy S10 pickup. She was my 4x4 baby...blue with blue interior, custom pin stripping. Put about 150k miles on that vehicle. Gave it to my dad, who ran it for at least another 250K miles.
When I first saw this it was like cool, a board that makes it easy. Then, having watched all the soldering, jumpers, etc., I appreciated the Danny Richie approach-tight mechanic connections, minimal soldering, no jumpers. I recently did the XLS encore kit with all the upgrades, and found it was very easy, especially after watching and snapping some photos of a completed crossover to make sure I had things in the proper order.
Yeah, I would add jumper wire where mechanical junctions are not possible point to point. My first soldering project was a crack. Sold it to a buddy who had practical engineer schooling and he re-soldered the whole thing. It sounded better. *shrug*. Bring your connection up to temp, then feed in solder. Solder should not hit the iron during the feed.
I have been very curious about these and how they compare to GR research bookshelf speakers... I am looking forward to your review on these. Use more Rosin and heat the wires up more before sticking your solder to the wire. Hope this helps in the future. You definitely made this look simple for people that don't know what to expect.
A circuit that looks good also works well! That´s a rule by thumb - and it´s true! So the first thing Randy should have done is: Straighten up all wires! And then, bend the wires so, that you achieve the shortest and cleanest way for the signal to go through! Always choose the right angle before any crude angle to make connections of two or more wires! And never forget: A good-looking circuit works better than a nasty-looking one! And, you will find failures quicker if the circuit is laid out properly and clean!
Just did new upgraded filters for my dls R60’s. Changed from the board to ptp wiring and replaced caps an resistors. Conductors were pretty good and air(no ferrit) and pretty thick wire so.... just did my last speaker yday late. Did some listening and today(now) I’m listening. Just 40$ and got more clean sound =)
Most impressed Cheapaudioman!! I overheard ur live set that you will also be doin a GR Research kit, definitely curious how the CSS kit with its IC inductors and SC resistors duke it out with GR's Air core inductos and mills resistors!
Well, it’s the engineering of the complete system that counts, and from experience building several XO’s designed by folks who know what they’re doing, there are times when blingy boutique audiophile approved components do not lift veils, etc, blah blah. 😉 That said, as pretty at it might look on the top, the mess of jumpers required on the rear certainly make an argument for a well laid out dual sided PCB with ground planes.
@@brenthawkins204 i cant seem to understand how even TOP SHELF brands insist on damn sandcast resistors! Baffles my brain, its only about a dollar or so savings, what the actual f**k!?!?
@@AllboroLCD seems it matters only on higher frequencies . Iron core on woofer only...but if the woofer is playing up to match the tweeter I think it matters
Not all that much to justify the 300% or more price increase of the x-over parts. The air core inductors make sense if the iron core inductors produce noticable distortions. That most likely won't happen with the signal level the CSS woofer receives - the woofer distortions will influence the sonic signature as they're much, much higher in magnitude. The advantage of iron core inductors is that their resistance is much lower than of air inductors - most of the time the resistance of the coils and spkrs wire in series with woofer should be less than 10-15% of the woofer's coil resistance, to keep woofer's Qts and Qes within limits. IMO it's drivers quality, crossover design, type of enclosure to a degree, and overall implemention that make good loudspeaker, not boutique parts. Every loudspeaker is compromise of some kind, as none of the parts are 'perfect', and laws of physics can't be beaten.
Good Job,, Just got mention that you want to avoid "cold" solder joints where in the wire doesn't get hot enough. What you want is to get the wires hot enough that the solder so the solder flows onto the wire. What you don't want is to drop solder on a insufficiently heated wire creating a cold solder joint. Just to be sure after the solder job is done, you can touch it to the iron and make sue the solder has flowed properly.
Ya i agree, i guarantee there was a couple cold joints in there. Especially on the stranded cable. Ive come to realize that many out there seem to think that just melting the solder onto the wires makes it a good connection. It ISN'T!
Use solid wire for your jumpers, then "twist" for the best "mechanical" connection. Also, your iron should be placed behind the connection and then touch the the front of the connection with the solder until it melts and is drawn towards & through to the other side. Same concept as soldering copper tubing in your house. Soldering wires running parallel to each other or butted up against, that are only touching is not a good mechanical connection. Thanks for the video though!
Suprised to see an Iron Core inductor on this. I'm assuming it's on the mid-bass section but seems like there's scope to upgrade some of the parts on this.
My OCD kicked in! All of the component lettering should be facing the same direction, both orientation and legibility. The zip ties should have been installed with the locking side under the board and a proper cutting tool to cut the excess should have been used to omit the sharp edges. I know no one will ever see it, but I'd know and it would drive me nuts.
Did I miss the why are you doing this and what speakers your applying this to ...part ? Ever use a heat shunt ? To prevent that few hundred degrees from traveling to the component core ?
It really is hard to take speaker cables seriously when one examines the component leads and jumpers within a crossover. Is high purity copper really that important when there is 70% tin in the solder that is in the same circuit path? I know that cable length plays a role but 12 and 14 gauge is a bit much when the component leads are 28 gage at best. I am not looking for answers. I am just pointing out why speaker cables is so controversial.
Danny and I discussed the same thing yesterday. A lot of the connectors are tin as well. Great point on all of it. Think I’m going to do a video about that for the patrons
EXACTLY. People spend $500 on speaker cables then the internal wiring of the speaker is cheap China zip cord. I'm surprised that this guys soldering slags didn't introduce distortion and take away the airy highs and muddy the midbass......😂😂😂
Its all about distance and resistance. The solder joint has very little distance and adds very little resistance. To go a step further you can pick the solder with the best conductivity. 50/ 50 solder is better than 60/40 for example and melts at slightly high temp as well. For audio use you can spend alittle more and get a blend with silver in it. This is as good as it gets for the solder joint. A solder joint is better than any spring loaded or push on blade connector.
@@ASSOpid Today's sponsor is "sith audios audiophile zip ties!" ...... OK... So, grab a cup of coffee, and talk about "sith audios audiophile zip ties!"...
Stop me if I'm wrong but didn't you miss connecting those two grounds on the lower left with the rest of the ground circuit? They're soldered together but not in series with the other wires marked "G".
Thoughts on testing out GR Research crossover upgrade on one of the Klipsch sets you have? Would be really interesting video. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I have the RP-260F but he hasn't had that or the RP-6000f (apparently same crossover) in to design one for me to test.
Ouch. Okay, even though you have "Rosin Core" solder, if you ever decide to do this again, put flux on all of your solder joints. I'd also turn your iron up at least another 50 degrees - hold the tip on the side opposite of where you're applying the solder and let it flow into the joint. Use some alligator clips to hold pieces together so they make firm contact. I'm NOT an expert by any stretch, but FLUX is a MUST! Try these suggestions and it should be much easier - with better results...
Hi Chris, the board is actually a glass fiber resin, not plastic, so it’s got a pretty high melting point in comparison. I’d takes a few seconds holding a soldering iron directly to it to cause it to start melting. The resistors are also already lifted off the board mostly. The value in the slot for the resistors is raised instead of recessed like the others to provide air around and some underneath.
@cheapaudioman I don't understand why through turrets aren't used for these connections. This all seems a bit sketch and I would hate to have to go back into a speaker if this deteriorates over time. Especially with lead free solder and all these exposed leads.
Very Glad !! Interested by these DYI !! Unfortunately, live in France so : VAT + Custom Duty + Shipping !! If you see Rob, please don’t forget Social Distancing and a Mask !! Rest assured, I am not a Party Pooper; however, worked 2 and 1/2 I tjs as an LD ! Bill, The Staten Island MD in France !! Life is weird !!
So the DIY option for a bookshelf with top of the line parts is just under $1000. Not to mention the cost of finishing the enclosure and my DIY lack of skill at both building speakers and painting them. Would they really sound much better than a random bookshelf like the RBH SV-61 bookshelf? It looks fun to build but not $1000 fun.
All of our crossovers are optimized for the drivers being used. Are you asking if this is the Superior crossover with upgraded parts? If so, this is the Standard crossover.
Well, hell. As the video started, installing the components on the beautiful 3D printed board, I was thinking “Oooooh! Fun! It’s like Legos!” My dreams were dashed when you started soldering. I felt my man card slip away. I now know that I need to at least learn to solder. It’s going to be tough, having 10 thumbs, but I’ll figure out something.
I’m fascinated with this concept of DIY speakers. Thanks for the video! I’ve been watching lots of your videos lately. Pretty good content and explanations. Is it a bad idea to add more jumpers between the connections to make the whole board look more organised? Will that affect the speaker sound? I used to do PCBs at Uni and we were taught to make the circuits very organised and tidy, like 90 degrees angles and such. My teacher wouldn’t like how this one looks :-). Thanks!
did you finish the ls x encores??? you would be the one to really give a great review comparing them to elacs etc.!!! are they better than the polks? we want to know, we demand to know
David Watson, I enjoy that you’re curious about a comparison to the Elacs. Me too. I got the unifi 2.0’s about a month ago. I absolutely love them. BUT... I’m still interested in a DIY project and wonder how they would stack up. This sure is a hobby that evolves / expands beyond reason, sometimes! LOL
@@chrisjordan6498 i found a sale on the tower reference elac! gonna pull the trigger. so close to doing the lsx but the price is too much for a small boookie. toss in a sub and stands and it just not gonna work for me
@@cheapaudioman Did you ever get that GR Research crossover video done? Hopefully it's better than the video on the GR Research channel. I couldn't make out what he was doing.
Question, I got the unified b52 Elac, on the 23rd we'd. According to you, your channel, you need to break these in for 3 days minimum. Some believe some don't, the break in process, as you know. I logically believe it. Moving parts need some time. Anyway, I also heard these Elacs, have amazing sound stage, imaging. Today is Friday and received speakers Wednesday, afternoon.Got about 12 hours play time on them. Not hearing imaging or sound stage. Sound a little thin right now. But seem to be coming around. Should I wait 4 days of continues playing before guessing sound stage, imaging? Have 8ohm amp, 140 -7 wpc, should I stay on 8 ohm, or switch to 6, which are the speakers ohms, bu52 unified 2.0. Again we have 2 camps on this , yes and no, Iam on the no side from alot of different sources. Sorry long winded! For these speakers 8 or 6? Your opinion. And thoughts on imaging and sound stage. Am I missing something. Going by your interview on these, which you say they have the best imaging ever. Along with a few others, Steve and Ron etc, Does this happen after break in? My speakers are 7 ft. Apart, on base buffers, rm. Size 10-14, 10 ft. Ceiling. 1 ft from side and back wall. Please, your thoughts. And please don't forget about me 😭,Your review is the reason I got these, Your words" try to beat these" !! Was playing Rock, now doing more Jazz, horns, drums, piano, bass. Please thoughts on this long Rant! ha ❤️🤘
Plasti dip rubber coating , (not the spray cans ) might be something to look into , instead of tape , I drank a lot of coffee watching your videos , what do you run for a stereo in your daily driver ?
Randy looks like you forgot to connect G to G on the left side lower board. The coil and resistor ground are not connecting to the other grounds. You have an open ground in your circuit.
Maybe to early to ask this but what the hell. Would love to see you build some of the GR Research bookshelf’s and do a Saturday shootout. Also WTF happened to the box of sticks?? Bad mojo, possibly to blame for the wiring mishap!?
You said to fill out a card in your link. But I don't see it. Would love to WI a set of speakers so my wife doesn't kill me for buying more LOL. Please help.
The only problem i find with this setup is there's no circuit board on the other side which would make soldering all of the components together easier.
Off topic, Continuing my question from last night... So you recommend the Marantz nr 5.2 receiver. It’s quite a bit more money than the Yamaha. Is it a sound quality thing, or does the Marantz have better functions. Could I be better served with spending comparable money on a different brand? Sorry for being annoying with my questions, I plan to have it for a long time. I’m building a set of gr research x-mtm encores and I’ve spent a lot of money of tools and stuff, and my wife is starting to look at me with a concerned look in her eye.
Lol. I don’t have any direct experience with the new yamahas and my receiver experience is limited to marantz. If you’re running encores I may consider something like a dedicated surround processor and separate amp for your speakers. Or at the very least a receiver that has preamp outputs for the front channels. Receivers are in short supply right now and I would see if you can wait for 6 months for the supply issues to get settled
because I showed the values of the components and GR Research wanted me to take it down. I've edited it so I may put it back up. CSS doesn't mind that the values are displayed
@@cheapaudioman why should that bother him... are standard value nothing particularly special about the crossover maybe that's the point he overcharge, crossover like that you can pick up for $30 already built. You're doing a service to anybody wanting to build putting it together very strong! And he's been asked by independent testers to have his speakers tested but refuses to do this wonder why! It's a Danish design anyway all of his speakers are. I remember them in the early 90s probably the same people who make the drivers, seas do the same kits lots of independent European mining from Scandinavian countries have a lot of speaker kits, I was always getting catalogues sent in the post. Probably tell you to take this comment down, I don't know he watched your channel lol. P.s. by the way you can buy iron-on real wood veneer strips for the ends of the plywood why they haven't got them I'm not sure
A PCB can be a lot more difficult for a novice to solder directly to. There is a greater chance of cold solder joints due to no real mechanical connection other than the solder if too little heat is applied. If too much heat is applied it can damage the board and cause other issues. Direct point to point is probably the easiest for someone with limited experience to get right.
For the record I dig your videos, brother. You care about sound. I care about ethics of sound assembly this is FAR FROM REALITY. Thank you for exposing this. I know it's not an expose video but for me it's eye openingly ludicrous assembly. Omfg smh
I really don't understand why this wouldn't be a PCB instead of a 3d printed board ? Safer, cheaper, easier, faster to make and better performance ? Why ?
It’s kinda expensive, but if you don’t want to use lead solder, I recommend silver solder. It’s conductivity is primo. A well known component supplier says solder does not make an electrical connection, so he says mechanical connection is a must. I disagree, especially if the solder is silver based.
2-3% silver, won't make whole a lot difference. But yes, first the mechanical connection of the components leads should be sound and tight, then the solder can make good mechanical and low resistance electrical connection. Decades ago WBT, Cardas sold tin/lead/3% silver solder especially for audio. Today since lead is banned and the solder is mostly made SMD, the solder is formulated differently. With lead free solder the temperature has to increased and care taken to cool down the joint. The old solder with lead needs lower temp and is more forgiving.
Glad to see your soldering is as much of a sh!t-show as mine. So...how do these giant gauge speaker wires we run match up with these tiny gauge crossover wires???
Never, Ever clean your solder iron tip on a cloth or sponge with Decaf!!!. A robust grind like Expresso is prefered. Caution Statement: Do not consume too much Expresso before or during your solder job, because the joints will introduce jitters into the signal.
Hold on stop the music..! Do these type of resistors have to be orientated in the correct way …? An in an out flow of electrical power so to speak. Respect KCB👍😁🇬🇧
Love your stuff, but this was slightly cringe worthy. Specifically the upper right corner Ground!! I know your the cheap audio man, but come on add a few mm of wire to avoid a solder butt joint. And to keep your wire in check, pull out the glue gun, give it a squirt and voila' With that said, the 3D printed breadboard is brilliant, so easy a 5 year old with one eye could build that X-over.
Some have commented that I didn't jumper all of the grounds together. I failed to jumper 2 grounds back to the mains. Good catch folks.
Still, this is one of the best soldering tutorial on UA-cam, for a beginner like me who has only soldered my dad's watchband buckle as a prank when I was stupid-14... A useful and super simple project, thanks!
the fact that I'm seeing so many more people actually start getting into audio is really making me happy. I started making videos almost 20 years ago about how to get decent sound in a car just using inexpensive components and I'm really glad that's really grown
The 3d board is a really nice touch. Even if you know what you're doing this makes it nice and neat. Good going CSS.
That crossover board is genius! Thanks for showing us how easy it is.
ugh. Kit crossover circuits should be super simple to read. With a little work you can use a pencil and redraw the logical circuit into a physical one to get your head around it.
I'd need that
Made it look easy. Now we need you to do a video opening up a harmony remote to change the rechargeable battery! You have excellent teaching skills.
i'm sure it's been said, but for the jumper connections (and any other), a solid way i've found to mechanically join two leads is, to fold the exposed wire in half with the fold about 90 degrees or so, then join them by hooking onto each other like you would hook your index fingers together, fold each wire all the way back onto itself, and press with pliers. then solder. that way it'll likely still hold connection even if the solder joint fails.
i don't know what the audio qualities of solder are, but i try to make sure all connections are metal-to-metal pretty solidly, so that the solder is just there to coat the connection and hopefully stave off corrosion for longer.
also, lead-free solder and silver solder is garbage and not friendly to work with. standard .031", 63/37% solder is tried and true. don't make life harder on yourself just to have a false sense that you're helping the environment. there are better ways to do that.
It looks like fun with DIY and trying something new is always a good thing.
LOL I just finished watching last night's live stream and this popped up.
I now get why Danny Richie, from GR Research, prefers point-to-point contact versus PCB board style crossovers. With point-to-point connection you tend to get a better mechanical connection otherwise.
Randy I think with some of those leads, it might have been advantageous to run a jumper with a mechanical connection versus just having them touching each other and soldering them together.
You can't tear away the solder pads, or break a trace if there aren't any.
Ahhh, memories! This reminds me of all those Heathkits that I built, many years ago.
Well done! Looking forward to hearing the speakers.
Hey Randall, nice video! Thank you again for pointing me in the right direction. On the back side of your crossover, you could use hot glue to affix the solder joints and jumpers to the back of the crossover board. Doing so might reduce the chance sympathetic vibration and reduce stress on the solder joints. The same could be done to the lead pass-through(s). If you ever need to remove the hot glue, use isopropyl alcohol. Holding the leads together you could use a alligator clip, then solder (also works as a heatsink) while soldering. Usually hot glue is a non-conductive adhesive.
DIY and factory crossover mods are the way to go. Great idea to show it to the people... 😁
I would use better cap on the tweeter, better resistors on the tweeter... Add 0.1uf high quality bypass on the tweeter cap.
If you had more handy long nose pliers it would allow you to twist leads together with more pressision than I would use sharp mini electonics wire cutters to cut off excess leads and than solder right over where you have twisted them and cut off excess.
Also if you have a speaker cables already and want to use them than use solder them direct to crossover... This way you can save and not use brass or metalic binding posts... it helps with better clarity .
Good advice. I'd also recommend detaching the x-o from mounting directly to the cabinet (to negate cabinet resonances from x-ferring to the x-o) and instead use a piece of foam under the x-o and secure it to the cabinet wall via eyescrews and zip ties or cord.
@@michaelmasztal7871 Now thats a awesome idea. ill be trying out on my next build! Thanks
Too much GR watching...
@@pliedtka 35 yrs of speaker modding experience 😉
Nice job, I really need to try one of these kits someday. I just hope Ron isn't watching, those sand cast resisters might trigger him lol.
LOL, my first new car was a Chevy S10 pickup. She was my 4x4 baby...blue with blue interior, custom pin stripping. Put about 150k miles on that vehicle. Gave it to my dad, who ran it for at least another 250K miles.
When I first saw this it was like cool, a board that makes it easy. Then, having watched all the soldering, jumpers, etc., I appreciated the Danny Richie approach-tight mechanic connections, minimal soldering, no jumpers. I recently did the XLS encore kit with all the upgrades, and found it was very easy, especially after watching and snapping some photos of a completed crossover to make sure I had things in the proper order.
Yeah, I would add jumper wire where mechanical junctions are not possible point to point. My first soldering project was a crack. Sold it to a buddy who had practical engineer schooling and he re-soldered the whole thing. It sounded better. *shrug*. Bring your connection up to temp, then feed in solder. Solder should not hit the iron during the feed.
I have been very curious about these and how they compare to GR research bookshelf speakers... I am looking forward to your review on these.
Use more Rosin and heat the wires up more before sticking your solder to the wire. Hope this helps in the future. You definitely made this look simple for people that don't know what to expect.
Great video and we all get the idea how easy they make it. You did miss a 'G' connection though. Keep up the good work!
A circuit that looks good also works well! That´s a rule by thumb - and it´s true!
So the first thing Randy should have done is: Straighten up all wires! And then, bend the wires so, that you achieve the shortest and cleanest way for the signal to go through! Always choose the right angle before any crude angle to make connections of two or more wires! And never forget: A good-looking circuit works better than a nasty-looking one! And, you will find failures quicker if the circuit is laid out properly and clean!
Just did new upgraded filters for my dls R60’s. Changed from the board to ptp wiring and replaced caps an resistors. Conductors were pretty good and air(no ferrit) and pretty thick wire so.... just did my last speaker yday late. Did some listening and today(now) I’m listening. Just 40$ and got more clean sound =)
Most impressed Cheapaudioman!! I overheard ur live set that you will also be doin a GR Research kit, definitely curious how the CSS kit with its IC inductors and SC resistors duke it out with GR's Air core inductos and mills resistors!
Well, it’s the engineering of the complete system that counts, and from experience building several XO’s designed by folks who know what they’re doing, there are times when blingy boutique audiophile approved components do not lift veils, etc, blah blah. 😉
That said, as pretty at it might look on the top, the mess of jumpers required on the rear certainly make an argument for a well laid out dual sided PCB with ground planes.
I cringe when I see sand cast resistors and iron core inductors. Danny has gotten into my head. We need to get danny on this right away. Lol
@@brenthawkins204 i cant seem to understand how even TOP SHELF brands insist on damn sandcast resistors! Baffles my brain, its only about a dollar or so savings, what the actual f**k!?!?
@@AllboroLCD seems it matters only on higher frequencies . Iron core on woofer only...but if the woofer is playing up to match the tweeter I think it matters
Not all that much to justify the 300% or more price increase of the x-over parts. The air core inductors make sense if the iron core inductors produce noticable distortions. That most likely won't happen with the signal level the CSS woofer receives - the woofer distortions will influence the sonic signature as they're much, much higher in magnitude. The advantage of iron core inductors is that their resistance is much lower than of air inductors - most of the time the resistance of the coils and spkrs wire in series with woofer should be less than 10-15% of the woofer's coil resistance, to keep woofer's Qts and Qes within limits.
IMO it's drivers quality, crossover design, type of enclosure to a degree, and overall implemention that make good loudspeaker, not boutique parts. Every loudspeaker is compromise of some kind, as none of the parts are 'perfect', and laws of physics can't be beaten.
I'd love to hear these to see why they sound so good
Randy because of you I bought the Sony speakers you like thanks
Good Job,, Just got mention that you want to avoid "cold" solder joints where in the wire doesn't get hot enough. What you want is to get the wires hot enough that the solder so the solder flows onto the wire. What you don't want is to drop solder on a insufficiently heated wire creating a cold solder joint. Just to be sure after the solder job is done, you can touch it to the iron and make sue the solder has flowed properly.
Exactly.
Ya i agree, i guarantee there was a couple cold joints in there. Especially on the stranded cable. Ive come to realize that many out there seem to think that just melting the solder onto the wires makes it a good connection. It ISN'T!
Soldering isn't difficult but there is a Right way and many wrong ways, and you're doing yourself and your project a disservice doing it wrong.
Its like color by numbers without the mess............or is it.........Awesome CSS & CAM!
Good demonstration. I would also get a small multimeter and just check for continuity through the joints. Easy to see if the circuit is functioning.
DIY speakers is the GOAT of hobbies. CSS, Meniscus, Troels Gravesen.
GOAT?
Greatest Of All Time
Use solid wire for your jumpers, then "twist" for the best "mechanical" connection. Also, your iron should be placed behind the connection and then touch the the front of the connection with the solder until it melts and is drawn towards & through to the other side. Same concept as soldering copper tubing in your house. Soldering wires running parallel to each other or butted up against, that are only touching is not a good mechanical connection. Thanks for the video though!
Suprised to see an Iron Core inductor on this. I'm assuming it's on the mid-bass section but seems like there's scope to upgrade some of the parts on this.
My OCD kicked in! All of the component lettering should be facing the same direction, both orientation and legibility.
The zip ties should have been installed with the locking side under the board and a proper cutting tool to cut the excess should have been used to omit the sharp edges.
I know no one will ever see it, but I'd know and it would drive me nuts.
Did I miss the why are you doing this and what speakers your applying this to ...part ?
Ever use a heat shunt ? To prevent that few hundred degrees from traveling to the component core ?
Can you do a vid showing how to get it through TSA?
I wish someone would review the Parts Express C-Note bookshelf speaker kit in the context of some other common commercially sold speakers.
It really is hard to take speaker cables seriously when one examines the component leads and jumpers within a crossover. Is high purity copper really that important when there is 70% tin in the solder that is in the same circuit path? I know that cable length plays a role but 12 and 14 gauge is a bit much when the component leads are 28 gage at best. I am not looking for answers. I am just pointing out why speaker cables is so controversial.
Danny and I discussed the same thing yesterday. A lot of the connectors are tin as well. Great point on all of it. Think I’m going to do a video about that for the patrons
EXACTLY. People spend $500 on speaker cables then the internal wiring of the speaker is cheap China zip cord. I'm surprised that this guys soldering slags didn't introduce distortion and take away the airy highs and muddy the midbass......😂😂😂
@@NeverTalkToCops1 Good grief....a typical snobby audiophile at work at making stupid comments like this!!!
Its all about distance and resistance. The solder joint has very little distance and adds very little resistance. To go a step further you can pick the solder with the best conductivity. 50/ 50 solder is better than 60/40 for example and melts at slightly high temp as well. For audio use you can spend alittle more and get a blend with silver in it. This is as good as it gets for the solder joint. A solder joint is better than any spring loaded or push on blade connector.
@@ASSOpid Today's sponsor is "sith audios audiophile zip ties!" ...... OK... So, grab a cup of coffee, and talk about "sith audios audiophile zip ties!"...
Stop me if I'm wrong but didn't you miss connecting those two grounds on the lower left with the rest of the ground circuit? They're soldered together but not in series with the other wires marked "G".
Thanks Randy, I know filming this close up is difficult.
I hope you're doing a follow-up installation video? It would be beneficial to see the complete build. Thanks.
That’s the plan
Thoughts on testing out GR Research crossover upgrade on one of the Klipsch sets you have? Would be really interesting video. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I have the RP-260F but he hasn't had that or the RP-6000f (apparently same crossover) in to design one for me to test.
Very nice sir I 'want meterial for woofer and tweeter crossover component.
I hope you were using Audiophile grade zip-ties made from platinum-impregnated anti-resonance polymers ;)
Waiting for the review and GR comparison !!! Thanx! Remember the Preventative Social Distancing Principles
Nice Job!! Looks interesting!
Ouch. Okay, even though you have "Rosin Core" solder, if you ever decide to do this again, put flux on all of your solder joints. I'd also turn your iron up at least another 50 degrees - hold the tip on the side opposite of where you're applying the solder and let it flow into the joint. Use some alligator clips to hold pieces together so they make firm contact. I'm NOT an expert by any stretch, but FLUX is a MUST! Try these suggestions and it should be much easier - with better results...
Thank you for the vid it helped a lot.
Thanks Randy, that was fun to watch.
I just have a question, should the two G in the lower left quadrant be connected to the other G’s as well?
I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be connected...
yeah they are. sorry. doing this last night at midnight and I've never done this with a camera and I'm not very good at soldering
@@cheapaudioman Looking forward to the rest of the build :)
I would suggest raising the resistors off the board a little. They can get a little warm and may deform the plastic.
Hi Chris, the board is actually a glass fiber resin, not plastic, so it’s got a pretty high melting point in comparison. I’d takes a few seconds holding a soldering iron directly to it to cause it to start melting. The resistors are also already lifted off the board mostly. The value in the slot for the resistors is raised instead of recessed like the others to provide air around and some underneath.
Ok, I wasn't sure if it was made with pla, etc. Sorry.
@cheapaudioman I don't understand why through turrets aren't used for these connections. This all seems a bit sketch and I would hate to have to go back into a speaker if this deteriorates over time. Especially with lead free solder and all these exposed leads.
Is this the superior crossover ?!? Does Danny know you’re mingling !! Thanx! Take Care
Danny wouldn't use cheap sand cast resistors.
I love DIY kits and these are both excellent kits. Different parts and different drivers both sound wonderful.
This is the standard crossover.
Cheap audio Man good stuff you could use a hot gun glue over those connectors so they don't really touch and stay in place
A great video, Randy! I'd love to see some more content like this! (Tho maybe a little shorter in length)
What about eventually using heat shrink bits to afford further insulation ?!?
Very Glad !! Interested by these DYI !! Unfortunately, live in France so : VAT + Custom Duty + Shipping !! If you see Rob, please don’t forget Social Distancing and a Mask !! Rest assured, I am not a Party Pooper; however, worked 2 and 1/2 I tjs as an LD ! Bill, The Staten Island MD in France !! Life is weird !!
So the DIY option for a bookshelf with top of the line parts is just under $1000. Not to mention the cost of finishing the enclosure and my DIY lack of skill at both building speakers and painting them. Would they really sound much better than a random bookshelf like the RBH SV-61 bookshelf? It looks fun to build but not $1000 fun.
use some clean flux and your soldering would be so much faster and done with more confidence on your connecntions
Thanx!! What will you amplify these with ?!? FYI : Triangle 40 Comète !! And
Do they make soldering irons that eject the solder from the tip like a hot glue gun does? This would seem like a much easier way of doing things.
FMI : is this the optimized CSS crossover ?!? Does Dan know you’re dealing with the competition ?!?
All of our crossovers are optimized for the drivers being used. Are you asking if this is the Superior crossover with upgraded parts? If so, this is the Standard crossover.
Well, hell. As the video started, installing the components on the beautiful 3D printed board, I was thinking “Oooooh! Fun! It’s like Legos!” My dreams were dashed when you started soldering. I felt my man card slip away. I now know that I need to at least learn to solder. It’s going to be tough, having 10 thumbs, but I’ll figure out something.
It just takes a little practice, and opens up a whole new world of possibilities. You'll be recapping motherboards in no time.
I’m fascinated with this concept of DIY speakers. Thanks for the video! I’ve been watching lots of your videos lately. Pretty good content and explanations.
Is it a bad idea to add more jumpers between the connections to make the whole board look more organised? Will that affect the speaker sound? I used to do PCBs at Uni and we were taught to make the circuits very organised and tidy, like 90 degrees angles and such. My teacher wouldn’t like how this one looks :-). Thanks!
does the kit include step by step instructions?
A circuit that looks good, also works good! That´s a rule by thumb - and it´s true!
did you finish the ls x encores??? you would be the one to really give a great review comparing them to elacs etc.!!! are they better than the polks? we want to know, we demand to know
Yes, I did finish the encores. Going to do their crossover today and video that one
I’m also looking at the LS x encores for a possible project. I’m a beginner so I’d be psyched to see how that crossover goes together.
David Watson, I enjoy that you’re curious about a comparison to the Elacs. Me too. I got the unifi 2.0’s about a month ago. I absolutely love them. BUT... I’m still interested in a DIY project and wonder how they would stack up. This sure is a hobby that evolves / expands beyond reason, sometimes! LOL
@@chrisjordan6498 i found a sale on the tower reference elac! gonna pull the trigger. so close to doing the lsx but the price is too much for a small boookie. toss in a sub and stands and it just not gonna work for me
@@cheapaudioman Did you ever get that GR Research crossover video done? Hopefully it's better than the video on the GR Research channel. I couldn't make out what he was doing.
You should build the Swan HIVI 3.1 speakers on Amazon.
I want to.
Know any good crossover designs that go BEFORE the amplifier?
You're supposed to use Sith Audio audiophile-grade solder and flux. Now those audiophile-grade speaker cables will be for naught.
Question, I got the unified b52 Elac, on the 23rd we'd. According to you, your channel, you need to break these in for 3 days minimum. Some believe some don't, the break in process, as you know. I logically believe it. Moving parts need some time. Anyway, I also heard these Elacs, have amazing sound stage, imaging. Today is Friday and received speakers Wednesday, afternoon.Got about 12 hours play time on them. Not hearing imaging or sound stage. Sound a little thin right now. But seem to be coming around. Should I wait 4 days of continues playing before guessing sound stage, imaging? Have 8ohm amp, 140 -7 wpc, should I stay on 8 ohm, or switch to 6, which are the speakers ohms, bu52 unified 2.0. Again we have 2 camps on this , yes and no, Iam on the no side from alot of different sources. Sorry long winded! For these speakers 8 or 6? Your opinion. And thoughts on imaging and sound stage. Am I missing something. Going by your interview on these, which you say they have the best imaging ever. Along with a few others, Steve and Ron etc, Does this happen after break in? My speakers are 7 ft. Apart, on base buffers, rm. Size 10-14, 10 ft. Ceiling. 1 ft from side and back wall. Please, your thoughts. And please don't forget about me 😭,Your review is the reason I got these, Your words" try to beat these" !! Was playing Rock, now doing more Jazz, horns, drums, piano, bass. Please thoughts on this long Rant! ha ❤️🤘
Plasti dip rubber coating , (not the spray cans ) might be something to look into , instead of tape , I drank a lot of coffee watching your videos , what do you run for a stereo in your daily driver ?
Did you think about isolating the different leads to avoid unintended con?!?
Please consider reviewing the Rega IO
What brand of solder are you using?
Thanks for the informative and detailed video.
Would buy the up grade
Very nice !!
You should have slid your wires under the zip ties where it could have been to help keep the wires closer to the board
Well right now building a deck will cost you thousands as treated wood is like gold.. and any audio is cheaper than a deck right now.
Randy looks like you forgot to connect G to G on the left side lower board. The coil and resistor ground are not connecting to the other grounds. You have an open ground in your circuit.
I was about to mention that
It's connected. Just a decent solder so it doesn't look connected
Maybe to early to ask this but what the hell. Would love to see you build some of the GR Research bookshelf’s
and do a Saturday shootout.
Also WTF happened to the box of sticks?? Bad mojo, possibly to blame for the wiring mishap!?
I moved the box of sticks but it’s still somewhere. Encores are already built. Few things in front of them though.
Could i just use minidsp as crossover(or avr in biamp mode etc) and 4 mono amps?
Awesome video man! How do those diy speakers sound?
I keep movin one of the leads around and it broke off 😩😩
Ah.. i’ve done my homework resistors have no polarity.🤪👍
I wonder why they don't use a PCB?
You said to fill out a card in your link. But I don't see it. Would love to WI a set of speakers so my wife doesn't kill me for buying more LOL. Please help.
The only problem i find with this setup is there's no circuit board on the other side which would make soldering all of the components together easier.
crossover schematic please.
Off topic, Continuing my question from last night... So you recommend the Marantz nr 5.2 receiver. It’s quite a bit more money than the Yamaha. Is it a sound quality thing, or does the Marantz have better functions. Could I be better served with spending comparable money on a different brand? Sorry for being annoying with my questions, I plan to have it for a long time. I’m building a set of gr research x-mtm encores and I’ve spent a lot of money of tools and stuff, and my wife is starting to look at me with a concerned look in her eye.
Lol. I don’t have any direct experience with the new yamahas and my receiver experience is limited to marantz. If you’re running encores I may consider something like a dedicated surround processor and separate amp for your speakers. Or at the very least a receiver that has preamp outputs for the front channels. Receivers are in short supply right now and I would see if you can wait for 6 months for the supply issues to get settled
You promised, no ads in the video..
I did say that. That was before I did a video that was nearly an your long and had to edit it. On "how to" videos I will have ads during the video.
It's well worth the price I paid for admission to the show.
Now do that twice! for the other speaker ! LOL
Just like watching paint dry, but with good way.
What's the reason you took the entire video down crossover kit for gr research can you explain why you did that!
because I showed the values of the components and GR Research wanted me to take it down. I've edited it so I may put it back up. CSS doesn't mind that the values are displayed
@@cheapaudioman why should that bother him... are standard value nothing particularly special about the crossover maybe that's the point he overcharge, crossover like that you can pick up for $30 already built. You're doing a service to anybody wanting to build putting it together very strong! And he's been asked by independent testers to have his speakers tested but refuses to do this wonder why!
It's a Danish design anyway all of his speakers are. I remember them in the early 90s probably the same people who make the drivers, seas do the same kits lots of independent European mining from Scandinavian countries have a lot of speaker kits, I was always getting catalogues sent in the post. Probably tell you to take this comment down, I don't know he watched your channel lol.
P.s. by the way you can buy iron-on real wood veneer strips for the ends of the plywood why they haven't got them I'm not sure
Maybe this is a dumb question? I am new to audio crossovers. Why do they 3d print this? Why don't they just include a PCB?
It’s to simplify the wiring and layout. The entire thing can be done without ever looking at a diagram.
A PCB can be a lot more difficult for a novice to solder directly to. There is a greater chance of cold solder joints due to no real mechanical connection other than the solder if too little heat is applied. If too much heat is applied it can damage the board and cause other issues. Direct point to point is probably the easiest for someone with limited experience to get right.
@@kerryarmes2786 gotcha. Makes sense.
danny say sand cast resisters and iron core inductors bad - hulk smash
well the good thing is that Danny doesn't make the rules.
For the record I dig your videos, brother. You care about sound. I care about ethics of sound assembly this is FAR FROM REALITY. Thank you for exposing this. I know it's not an expose video but for me it's eye openingly ludicrous assembly. Omfg smh
I really don't understand why this wouldn't be a PCB instead of a 3d printed board ? Safer, cheaper, easier, faster to make and better performance ? Why ?
Ask CSS, brother. I just do the reviews. I don’t design the kits.
Ds are touching. 😳
Shame we can't crimp the crossover to avoid solder
Are you sure your caps are correctly situated. . There are pos. And negative. On them
Capacitors used for crossovers do not have directionality.
It’s kinda expensive, but if you don’t want to use lead solder, I recommend silver solder. It’s conductivity is primo. A well known component supplier says solder does not make an electrical connection, so he says mechanical connection is a must. I disagree, especially if the solder is silver based.
2-3% silver, won't make whole a lot difference. But yes, first the mechanical connection of the components leads should be sound and tight, then the solder can make good mechanical and low resistance electrical connection. Decades ago WBT, Cardas sold tin/lead/3% silver solder especially for audio. Today since lead is banned and the solder is mostly made SMD, the solder is formulated differently. With lead free solder the temperature has to increased and care taken to cool down the joint. The old solder with lead needs lower temp and is more forgiving.
Glad to see your soldering is as much of a sh!t-show as mine. So...how do these giant gauge speaker wires we run match up with these tiny gauge crossover wires???
Mass hysteria
Never, Ever clean your solder iron tip on a cloth or sponge with Decaf!!!. A robust grind like Expresso is prefered. Caution Statement: Do not consume too much Expresso before or during your solder job, because the joints will introduce jitters into the signal.
You should have been a teacher!!
Hold on stop the music..!
Do these type of resistors have to be orientated in the correct way …?
An in an out flow of electrical power so to speak.
Respect
KCB👍😁🇬🇧
Love your stuff, but this was slightly cringe worthy. Specifically the upper right corner Ground!!
I know your the cheap audio man, but come on add a few mm of wire to avoid a solder butt joint. And to keep your wire in check, pull out the glue gun, give it a squirt and voila'
With that said, the 3D printed breadboard is brilliant, so easy a 5 year old with one eye could build that X-over.