Great stuff, Rick. It's both sobering and helpful to realize that very often the audience has preconceptions about magic and magicians that need to first be overcome before they are receptive enough to experience the trick. It's like having to first remove the brick wall blocking their view before they're even able to watch a performance. Glad you're around to bring these topics up!
Couldn't agree more! I see that you have a few guitars on your wall, so you understand the difference between music theory and actual performance. I learned by ear and began playing straight off, and not until playing for about twenty years did I start to grasp the basics of music theory. To me this is natural... or normal. We learn to speak by ear, by imitation at first, and when we can already speak fluently we go to school and learn to read and write, and to understand some of the basics of grammar. So practice comes naturally before theory, which serves only to tidy up areas of confusion, or enables us to refer back to the "rules" when we get stuck, or if our inner sense fails us; then we can do the " paint by numbers" approach to work out tricky harmonies... but only if we had not at first heard in our mind's ear ,so to speak, what exactly we should do. Performing music in public for a few days teaches yourself more than six months of woodshedding on scales and arpeggios. This is because music is received by the audience in a moment of time through their ears, not presented to them on a sheet of paper with squiggles on it. The sound comes before some analysis of the skeletal form is written down. I'm glad you recommend performing instead of wasting time arming yourself with knowledge that has no part of the cultural event that is the perception and reception of actual sound. In our age we try to refuce everything to a scholarly set of data which we forget is not music, or magic, it's just a representation of a particular perception of art. Having said all this, I have, since the age of five or six absolutely loved consuming magic but never have I been able to bring myself to perform it personally,( you'd think that nervous tension would prevent me from performing music as well, and I almost couldn't do that either, but three myself into it anyway, because I just had to; I wish somehow I could push myself to get more active in magic, but I'm literally too terrified even to try... but then I pick music, which is also impossibly nerve-wracking, and I do it anyway... struggling for thirty ir forty years til finally I understood how to overcome my stage fright. It has something to do with.. it's not about me or my fears, it's about doing something nice for someone else. When I got that little bit of understanding, my nerves all but went away... now if only I could start doing that with magic before I die of old age!) Love your videos Ric, but I'm still dreaming and studying double lifts etc while being deathly afraid of performing. Thanks for this talk; it's given me a lot to consider... duh! Why couldn't I figure this out sooner, since I get it where music is concerned, mind you most people don't really hear music as we musicians do, so there is some mystery to hide behind, but magic is a bit too real for me.. superior art form to music, and second to live comedy as the most advanced form of art.( sorry fir the rant but you had me thinking- which is a dangerous thing!!!)😊
Thanks for your thoughtful reply! You get it! You should start showing people your magic. You will be surprised how powerful a control to the top, a double lift to show the wrong card, then a wave of the hand to transform to the right card. People simply freak out with that!
wow thats is so great i was just getting out of the idea of ''magic is a sacred art '' and '' tell them its the most important moment of their life'' while doing a double lift
Agree on your points. It's like a rock band that starts out. First, unless they are utter geniuses, they start w cover songs and gradually develop and incorporate their own material, which may include variations of the cover songs they started out with.
Thanks for the video! This was very helpful to me as an amateur. I've been stuck in a loop of reading "theory" books and convincing myself I'm not ready to perform until I've absorbed all of the knowledge within them. I also appreciate being called out on mindlessly collecting books before really diving into what I already have. I needed to hear that. Excellent video!
I thoroughly enjoyed your discussion. I think you raise many valid points. I would probably contest the idea that magic is "meaningless" or that is significance is confined to entertainment. It's up to the performer to give meaning and for the spectator - to find it. Symbols, archetypes, stories and myths can assist in the delivery of meaning to our magic - as our teachers remind us. Not all theories are created equal. Looking at one of Latta's routine recently, it struck me that embedded within the sequence of sleights were implicit traces of "false solutions" . I absolutely agree with your point about having a foundation before going for theory.
Your definition of 'theory' is a bit vague though, possibly including inexpert opinion, conventional wisdom, and the high theory of Tamariz or Ascanio. Theory should be introduced in stages at the right time: i.e. the right level and the right kind. Structured programs of tuition should do his. Mentoring can suggest what is suitable or helpful in terms of offering what the student can understand and soon be able to apply. Take a step forward with theory; then perform. You are right that hobbies are widely regarded as nerdy and perhaps even weird. (Stamp collecting, model aeroplanes, growing orchids?) What pastimes instead have glamour? Sports and active pastimes (rock-climbing, parachuting) are, but they are not viewed as 'hobbies'. By the way, wallowing in magic theory can itself be an interesting hobby!
Magic "theory" is presented as vague on purpose. There is the psychology behind a performance, the script and the specific words chosen, then the choreography itself sometimes. By keeping it vague it remains elusive and mysterious. A carrot on a string so to speak. I can "sell" you this vague idea and it will make you a better magician. There are many poser gurus in magic that are really just grifters. The best mentor is performance and self analysis. If you're incapable of that, it is best to find a mentor. But, can you really trust that person's advice? That's why I mention imitation. You can practice what is proven to work, analyze it and slowly adjust it by injecting your own personality and ideas.
That click bait title got me. I disagree completely. theory is important. Should a 12 year old struggling with his double lift worry about Ascaino ? nope but it will become important soon enough. Just pick up enough theory to not narrate your tricks
My main points are: 1. Be careful who you are getting your theory from 2. Theory won't make you a good magician, being well-practiced and smooth will take you much further.
Rick, you are absolutely right. It's absolutely important to first think about how I want to look on stage, what I want to present. Don't buy everything new right away, but really think about it, this effect suits me and what I want to show. This is one of the best videos I have seen in a long time and I would highly recommend the content to any new magician or pro.
My thoughts on this video are way too varied to be encapsulated in a short UA-cam comment, but I really resonate with your musings here, and would love to be able to speak to you in more depth about these concepts. Very well said, as even magicians whom I greatly admire and have learned a lot from often seem to feel the need to tread into areas where they cannot possibly be competently knowledgeable, and it bothers me. Thanks very much for broaching this topic Rick.
Hi Rick Humm, this goes against the advice I give to people starting 😉 I always recommend to start studying theory from the beginning. Theory is a massive topic and it take time to study, so the sooner we start the better. It’s a big step to go from zero to studying the works of Juan Tamariz or Dani DaOrtiz. We need to gradually build the knowledge. And it doesn’t need to be expensive. I always recommend to start with Maskelyne’s “Our Magic” because it’s cheap and has the key information to start with. And it’s an easy read. I believe that Gary Kurtz' “Leading With Your Head” is the starting point to study misdirection. And that’s topic that takes a long time to incorporate in our mind and making it natural/intuitive. I think as well that theory is essential to building a show. It’s easy to learn tricks and show to family and friends. But it’s a big step to go from hobby into build a show and start performing. We also need to build knowledge gradually to be able to take that step.
Theory is necessary, you're right. But the beginner is better off, in the beginning, to get the mechanics of sleight of hand smooth. It is also easy to be distracted by many styles and many props in the beginning, that's why I emphasize focus. You can add simple concepts of misdirection and motivated action as you learn beginner sleights. It's the deeper theory and ideas of psychology and meaning that I urge beginners to be careful with. Those things will bring much more benefit later on when they have polished material to apply it to. Thank you so much for your insights on this!
@@RickHolcombe Yes, it also takes time to build the muscle memory in the beginning. And it depends on how people learn. I guess it all comes down to what is our source of inspiration, being mentors or magicians we look up to. My mentor always talked about theory. Looking back, I don’t know if it was his focus or if he noticed my interest and responded. Maybe a bit of both :P I also started learning from Tommy Wonder and Tom Stone. I guess that steered me in that direction. Eugene Burger had monthly theory assays in his webpage and they were doc files we could download. This was the beginnings of the internet, way before blogs were a thing ;)
Rick, thanks for this video. Coin magic is a new hobby for me and it sort of came out of nowhere. I didn't really need a new hobby but it fits well with my limited free time. I definitely went down the rabbit hole a few months ago and got sucked into thinking I needed to learn as much as possible in order to "progress." Turns out, working on a handful of sleights and inching toward mastering them has been much more enjoyable. - On a side note - Last night I "bent a quarter" for my cousin. We're both old men now so I thought he'd just laugh and roll his eyes, but he really thought I had managed to bend the quarter. I didn't expect the ethical dilemma this caused. I tried telling him it was a trick but he didn't really believe me at first. I know this probably sounds odd but the last thing I want is for someone to really think a trick is supernatural in any way. I had to laugh about it afterwards but the subtlety of showing an unbent quarter in your hand while the bent quarter is palmed is the setup for an extremely powerful visual. I'm not sure my cousin trusts me now and that's sort of your fault for freely teaching such a cool trick. Hah.
Agree with you, Rick. I think theory has become a branch of magic in itself or at least it seems that way at times. The points you started to make from the 17min mark made me smile. I see where you're going and 100% agree. You read my mind :)
Thanks for your perspective on this topic. I'm also a guitar player like you, and a lot of this applies to any endeavor, especially in the arts. Have you read any of Kenny Werner's work?
I was surprised to hear you say magic is seen in a bad light, I've rarely seen that perception lol. And yeah, I naturally get into magic simply by emulating who I look up to do real world work!
I'm not a magician, but I have worked as a stagehand for a professional magician once and that was extremely enlightening as to what magic really is - I thought you had excellent advice for developing magicians. I think there is a much deeper conversation there about how magic plays on something in how the brain works or processes information that allows it to be well...hacked for lack of a better word. Great video. 👍
I agree with a lot of things. I think that arrived to a point Of the journey, a magician needs to put words on what he already does : what is a misdirection, what Can a spectator brain absorb... To achieve some technics, i also think that you need to learn some theory. For exemple, I needed that to succeed a top change or a classic force without being caught. (Thanks the spanish school). In a lot of his materials, Daortiz justifies what he is doing. It helps me today to improve the routines i already do. I am so agree with you about Magic shop. I was at one and waiting the seller. (Just wanted to buy cards). He was showing tricks to teenagers with gaffed decks, but gaffed decks wich Can only achieve 1 or 2 routines with. At the Price Of 12 normal decks . I was very obsessed Of that. But they need to make money 🤷🏻♂️ Sorry for my Bad english, i am french.
Great thoughts, Rick! As Ford Kross was fond of saying, "The most expensive tricks are the ones you do not use!" I have a lot of those!
I'm glad to see the knowledge I need.
Great stuff, Rick. It's both sobering and helpful to realize that very often the audience has preconceptions about magic and magicians that need to first be overcome before they are receptive enough to experience the trick. It's like having to first remove the brick wall blocking their view before they're even able to watch a performance. Glad you're around to bring these topics up!
Thanks Scott! I've got some other topics too!
Couldn't agree more! I see that you have a few guitars on your wall, so you understand the difference between music theory and actual performance. I learned by ear and began playing straight off, and not until playing for about twenty years did I start to grasp the basics of music theory. To me this is natural... or normal. We learn to speak by ear, by imitation at first, and when we can already speak fluently we go to school and learn to read and write, and to understand some of the basics of grammar. So practice comes naturally before theory, which serves only to tidy up areas of confusion, or enables us to refer back to the "rules" when we get stuck, or if our inner sense fails us; then we can do the " paint by numbers" approach to work out tricky harmonies... but only if we had not at first heard in our mind's ear ,so to speak, what exactly we should do. Performing music in public for a few days teaches yourself more than six months of woodshedding on scales and arpeggios. This is because music is received by the audience in a moment of time through their ears, not presented to them on a sheet of paper with squiggles on it. The sound comes before some analysis of the skeletal form is written down. I'm glad you recommend performing instead of wasting time arming yourself with knowledge that has no part of the cultural event that is the perception and reception of actual sound. In our age we try to refuce everything to a scholarly set of data which we forget is not music, or magic, it's just a representation of a particular perception of art. Having said all this, I have, since the age of five or six absolutely loved consuming magic but never have I been able to bring myself to perform it personally,( you'd think that nervous tension would prevent me from performing music as well, and I almost couldn't do that either, but three myself into it anyway, because I just had to; I wish somehow I could push myself to get more active in magic, but I'm literally too terrified even to try... but then I pick music, which is also impossibly nerve-wracking, and I do it anyway... struggling for thirty ir forty years til finally I understood how to overcome my stage fright. It has something to do with.. it's not about me or my fears, it's about doing something nice for someone else. When I got that little bit of understanding, my nerves all but went away... now if only I could start doing that with magic before I die of old age!) Love your videos Ric, but I'm still dreaming and studying double lifts etc while being deathly afraid of performing. Thanks for this talk; it's given me a lot to consider... duh! Why couldn't I figure this out sooner, since I get it where music is concerned, mind you most people don't really hear music as we musicians do, so there is some mystery to hide behind, but magic is a bit too real for me.. superior art form to music, and second to live comedy as the most advanced form of art.( sorry fir the rant but you had me thinking- which is a dangerous thing!!!)😊
Thanks for your thoughtful reply! You get it! You should start showing people your magic. You will be surprised how powerful a control to the top, a double lift to show the wrong card, then a wave of the hand to transform to the right card. People simply freak out with that!
wow thats is so great i was just getting out of the idea of ''magic is a sacred art '' and '' tell them its the most important moment of their life'' while doing a double lift
Agree on your points. It's like a rock band that starts out. First, unless they are utter geniuses, they start w cover songs and gradually develop and incorporate their own material, which may include variations of the cover songs they started out with.
That's an excellent analogy, thank you.
Thanks for the video! This was very helpful to me as an amateur. I've been stuck in a loop of reading "theory" books and convincing myself I'm not ready to perform until I've absorbed all of the knowledge within them. I also appreciate being called out on mindlessly collecting books before really diving into what I already have. I needed to hear that. Excellent video!
We all do it my friend. You'll be amazed how much just seems to sink in if you are performing a lot.
In a word - brilliant. Nail, Head. Hit.
Thanks Joe!
Great video. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!!!
I thoroughly enjoyed your discussion. I think you raise many valid points. I would probably contest the idea that magic is "meaningless" or that is significance is confined to entertainment. It's up to the performer to give meaning and for the spectator - to find it. Symbols, archetypes, stories and myths can assist in the delivery of meaning to our magic - as our teachers remind us. Not all theories are created equal. Looking at one of Latta's routine recently, it struck me that embedded within the sequence of sleights were implicit traces of "false solutions" . I absolutely agree with your point about having a foundation before going for theory.
Your definition of 'theory' is a bit vague though, possibly including inexpert opinion, conventional wisdom, and the high theory of Tamariz or Ascanio. Theory should be introduced in stages at the right time: i.e. the right level and the right kind. Structured programs of tuition should do his. Mentoring can suggest what is suitable or helpful in terms of offering what the student can understand and soon be able to apply. Take a step forward with theory; then perform. You are right that hobbies are widely regarded as nerdy and perhaps even weird. (Stamp collecting, model aeroplanes, growing orchids?) What pastimes instead have glamour? Sports and active pastimes (rock-climbing, parachuting) are, but they are not viewed as 'hobbies'. By the way, wallowing in magic theory can itself be an interesting hobby!
Magic "theory" is presented as vague on purpose. There is the psychology behind a performance, the script and the specific words chosen, then the choreography itself sometimes.
By keeping it vague it remains elusive and mysterious. A carrot on a string so to speak.
I can "sell" you this vague idea and it will make you a better magician.
There are many poser gurus in magic that are really just grifters.
The best mentor is performance and self analysis. If you're incapable of that, it is best to find a mentor. But, can you really trust that person's advice?
That's why I mention imitation. You can practice what is proven to work, analyze it and slowly adjust it by injecting your own personality and ideas.
That click bait title got me.
I disagree completely.
theory is important.
Should a 12 year old struggling with his double lift worry about Ascaino ? nope but it will become important soon enough.
Just pick up enough theory to not narrate your tricks
My main points are:
1. Be careful who you are getting your theory from
2. Theory won't make you a good magician, being well-practiced and smooth will take you much further.
@@RickHolcombe I agree with that 100%
Rick, you are absolutely right. It's absolutely important to first think about how I want to look on stage, what I want to present. Don't buy everything new right away, but really think about it, this effect suits me and what I want to show. This is one of the best videos I have seen in a long time and I would highly recommend the content to any new magician or pro.
One word, GOLD. Your 100% right on all points.
Thank you Mr. Andrews
My thoughts on this video are way too varied to be encapsulated in a short UA-cam comment, but I really resonate with your musings here, and would love to be able to speak to you in more depth about these concepts. Very well said, as even magicians whom I greatly admire and have learned a lot from often seem to feel the need to tread into areas where they cannot possibly be competently knowledgeable, and it bothers me. Thanks very much for broaching this topic Rick.
Thanks Matt!
Hi Rick
Humm, this goes against the advice I give to people starting 😉
I always recommend to start studying theory from the beginning.
Theory is a massive topic and it take time to study, so the sooner we start the better.
It’s a big step to go from zero to studying the works of Juan Tamariz or Dani DaOrtiz. We need to gradually build the knowledge.
And it doesn’t need to be expensive.
I always recommend to start with Maskelyne’s “Our Magic” because it’s cheap and has the key information to start with. And it’s an easy read.
I believe that Gary Kurtz' “Leading With Your Head” is the starting point to study misdirection. And that’s topic that takes a long time to incorporate in our mind and making it natural/intuitive.
I think as well that theory is essential to building a show. It’s easy to learn tricks and show to family and friends. But it’s a big step to go from hobby into build a show and start performing. We also need to build knowledge gradually to be able to take that step.
Theory is necessary, you're right. But the beginner is better off, in the beginning, to get the mechanics of sleight of hand smooth. It is also easy to be distracted by many styles and many props in the beginning, that's why I emphasize focus. You can add simple concepts of misdirection and motivated action as you learn beginner sleights. It's the deeper theory and ideas of psychology and meaning that I urge beginners to be careful with. Those things will bring much more benefit later on when they have polished material to apply it to.
Thank you so much for your insights on this!
@@RickHolcombe Yes, it also takes time to build the muscle memory in the beginning. And it depends on how people learn.
I guess it all comes down to what is our source of inspiration, being mentors or magicians we look up to.
My mentor always talked about theory. Looking back, I don’t know if it was his focus or if he noticed my interest and responded. Maybe a bit of both :P
I also started learning from Tommy Wonder and Tom Stone. I guess that steered me in that direction.
Eugene Burger had monthly theory assays in his webpage and they were doc files we could download. This was the beginnings of the internet, way before blogs were a thing ;)
Rick, thanks for this video. Coin magic is a new hobby for me and it sort of came out of nowhere. I didn't really need a new hobby but it fits well with my limited free time. I definitely went down the rabbit hole a few months ago and got sucked into thinking I needed to learn as much as possible in order to "progress." Turns out, working on a handful of sleights and inching toward mastering them has been much more enjoyable. - On a side note - Last night I "bent a quarter" for my cousin. We're both old men now so I thought he'd just laugh and roll his eyes, but he really thought I had managed to bend the quarter. I didn't expect the ethical dilemma this caused. I tried telling him it was a trick but he didn't really believe me at first. I know this probably sounds odd but the last thing I want is for someone to really think a trick is supernatural in any way. I had to laugh about it afterwards but the subtlety of showing an unbent quarter in your hand while the bent quarter is palmed is the setup for an extremely powerful visual. I'm not sure my cousin trusts me now and that's sort of your fault for freely teaching such a cool trick. Hah.
Haha! Nice.
Agree with you, Rick. I think theory has become a branch of magic in itself or at least it seems that way at times. The points you started to make from the 17min mark made me smile. I see where you're going and 100% agree. You read my mind :)
Thanks Nev!
Thanks for your perspective on this topic. I'm also a guitar player like you, and a lot of this applies to any endeavor, especially in the arts. Have you read any of Kenny Werner's work?
I've not read any, I'll look him up.
I was surprised to hear you say magic is seen in a bad light, I've rarely seen that perception lol.
And yeah, I naturally get into magic simply by emulating who I look up to do real world work!
It may be more accurate to say that the public views magic as being for children and not the cool performance art we all hope it to be.
Rick, this video is just what I needed. Thank you for your candor man.
Thanks Dani!
I'm not a magician, but I have worked as a stagehand for a professional magician once and that was extremely enlightening as to what magic really is - I thought you had excellent advice for developing magicians. I think there is a much deeper conversation there about how magic plays on something in how the brain works or processes information that allows it to be well...hacked for lack of a better word. Great video. 👍
You're right and you'd be amazed at how much of that understanding happens by just performing a lot.
I agree with a lot of things.
I think that arrived to a point Of the journey, a magician needs to put words on what he already does : what is a misdirection, what Can a spectator brain absorb...
To achieve some technics, i also think that you need to learn some theory. For exemple, I needed that to succeed a top change or a classic force without being caught. (Thanks the spanish school).
In a lot of his materials, Daortiz justifies what he is doing. It helps me today to improve the routines i already do.
I am so agree with you about Magic shop. I was at one and waiting the seller. (Just wanted to buy cards). He was showing tricks to teenagers with gaffed decks, but gaffed decks wich Can only achieve 1 or 2 routines with. At the Price Of 12 normal decks . I was very obsessed Of that. But they need to make money 🤷🏻♂️
Sorry for my Bad english, i am french.
Thank you for your thoughts
Thanks for a thought provoking video! I’d be interested in more magic video essays like this.
Thanks Ferran!
Just perfect, Rick, just perfect!
Great video!
Great theory!😉
Great video 👍👍
Sankey IS the horrible cringe magician.
I can see that perspective. On the other hand, he has created some of the strongest and most popular tricks magicians perform.