I definitely want a sequel. But I wanted one with the same "soul". I was super happy they announced a sequel with folk like Mitsoda. And then super bummed that he was fired. I fear the sequel will not capture the first one's "soul" properly now.
@@UlissesSampaio The latest gameplay I saw now that TheChineseRoom took over honestly didn't blow me away. It didn't really feel like a sequel to Bloodlines. Sure the graphics and combat were improved(though still nothing to write home about in 2024), but Bloodlines was great despite its combat. Not because of it. Meanwhile they decided to show a chunk of content from the game that did little to nothing to show off any RPG elements or social gameplay beyond some very basic Mass Effect level dialog boxes. You're also no longer just some guy you get to develop, but are instead an already fully formed character with a history. At the same time your choices for building your character are severely nerfed. I had some hope when Paradox first picked up the IP and hired a few people from the original team, but after how those are all gone now and even the studio was completely removed from the project I've long lost any expectations of getting a good Bloodlines sequel. I can always hope I'm wrong though.
Ok lets flip the question then. Would you ever do a Prequel game? Like what Rockstar did with RDR2? Which of your games would you make a Prequel to if you had the perfect conditions and team?
I think prequels have all the same issues as sequels, with regards to pre-established expectations and also having to stay within the established bounds of what that IP is. So I don’t think that there’s really a difference.
The main problem with prequels is you already know how it ends. This is potentially a huge impediment to making a truly significant game from the original. The journey to a known ending can be interesting, but it'd better tell a helluva story or it's going to crater. You can also use a prequel to lead into a different story from the original game, but here you're planning on multiple games or a game that leads to somewhere else from the origin tale. Either way, there's lots that can go wrong.
@@davefinfrock3324 I think Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel is a good example of this. It's a good game, and they tried to add new mechanics (like the gravity and oxygen systems), but ultimately it just feels like it should've been an expansion. This may also be partly because it does use the same engine foundation as BL2 so it really does just feel like an extension of that game, but I think even the narrative feels somewhat forcefully limited by the scope. Even though they went out of their way to introduce tons of new story, it's all somewhat irrelevant to mainline Borderlands. The vault hunters, Handsome Jack, and then Roland & Lilith are obviously significant in explaining how we got to BL2, but a lot of the rest feels like filler. The one *great* new character we got was Janey Springs.
@@davefinfrock3324the best example of a story that gets the best of both worlds in sequel/prequel is The Godfather Part II, so you get extra background that makes you appreciate the original more, plus a follow up that sharpens the IP. Haven't seen anyone pull that off in video games, but The Fall of Hyperion comes pretty damn close in science fiction.
Hello Tim! I am a game dev student taking Computer Science at the University level. My question to you is: In your career, were there any software design aspects you learned in school/at work that you originally undervalued, or took for granted, that turned out to be incredibly important to understand? (in a game development context) Specifically I’m asking about relatively minor aspects of the software design process that, once fully understood, changed the way you approach game programming
I undervalued the KISS methodology. KISS means Keep It Simple Stupid. I cannot tell you how many times a programmer (including me) wrote some clever, tight, optimized code using pointers and fancy bit twiddling and was immensely proud of it...only to need to make a change to it 6 months later and not understanding their own code. It's one thing to not understand someone else's code, but when you can't understand your own, just a few months later...well, that's sad.
@@MordaedilArcanum is in really wired spot when comes to difficulty. It can be quite hard, especialy early on. But IF you know what you are doing, it is riddiculusly easy to break. You said you made an elf super model, so I assume high beauty start with little to no combat skills. That one of the harder paths. Beauty is kind of a trap stat in Arcanum, yes it gives you boost to npc reaction ( and that can, for example, lower the prices in shops ), but preety much all dialogues that mean something in game check charisma ( and few important ones also inteligence ). So, yeah, your setting yourself for rough start, tho way later in game, this is quie a fun build, with literal army of companions doing all the combat for you.
Thank you for being respectful to Bloodlines. Even though I only played it about a year ago. I don't think I've ever been more immersed in a world before.
When Masahiro Sakurai was making Smash Bros, he said he could not stress enough how important it is to be respectful and authentic to the source material. This was very important, not only for the IP holders, but for the fans of these games as well. Especially in a game like Smash which has so many characters from so many different franchises. He said this went from their 3D models, to voice clips, to animations, to play style, to theme music! I think the 1993 Super Mario Bros movie with Bob Hoskins compared to the modern 2023 movie is a good example of how different something can look depending on how close it is to the source material lol (I like the Bob Hoskins Mario movie btw - it's silly and fun haha)
Little hints of greater potential world building for sequels are some of my favorite parts of reading item descriptions/books/terminals. Hearing about FORCE and the Septerra system in Outer worlds through the Ultimatum handgun is awesome. That, and funny things like Systems and Serfdoms, it's nice to know that getting a TTRPG game together is just as difficult in the nightmare that is Halcyon as it is in real life.
I like the idea of seeing how the industrial revolution continues in Arcanum 2. Imagine Dark Elf wizards fighting tanks, biplanes and machine guns. So much could still be done with the setting.
Hey Tim. Arcanum sure had a lot of good quests and groups. Love the gnome half ogre quest. It just shows how this beutiful world with suits, bowing and courtseying, gentlemen and madames has such dark secrets and power hungry monsters etc. Arcanum is the only setting i think rivals Fallouts setting. The elves and dwarves are a great part of that. The wheel clan and the civil war with Lorek. The dark elves and Arronax. The elves and the silver lady. Magnus and the lost iron clan and so much more.
Are you talking about the gnome "conspiracy theory" quest line? I think Tim and Leonard Boyarsky have said that they regret adding it into Arcanum because of clear connotations with real antisemitic conspiracy theories.
Temple of Elemental Evil is the best D&D game in terms not of just mechanics and gameplay that mirror the board game's 3.5e but also captures the mood and setting. Thank you Tim and team for this jewel!
Hey Tim, your videos are inspirational. I think it's interesting how you say to design the setting and story before you even consider gameplay. That makes sense for RPGs. I think it's to your credit that your games are so fun to play. I played The Outer Worlds based on your videos. I loved it. The writing is hilarious yet tells a compelling story, and the gameplay is fun. I'm looking forward to the sequel.
That does indeed cover most of my questions I had about sequels 😂 Would still be nice (if nearly impossible) to get Troika back together for Arcanum 2. Who knows? Maybe some day
Hi Tim, what were some misconceptions you had in Temple and Vampires that totally surprised you when asking the owners of those IPs? And what are the most funny or absurd misconceptions some people had about your IPs? Thank for the channel, wholesome and cozy.
Glad to hear that Arcanum was one of those intended to be continued. It sure won't be exactly what you had in mind, but I hope that little tabletop design I'm basing around it is respectful enough. Might drop a link here once it's done if anyone's curious.
Forgive me if you've already talked about this and I'm sure you've been asked a million times, but hypothetically if you were in charge of a Fallout sequel today, what kind of story beats and mechanics would you want to implement.
I do feel the recent entertainment generations have struggled with moving on to create new. Some of it is greed to milk IP's and some is a lack of being able to let go. But i think what made the early to late 2000's so special (to me at least) is youd get at most a trilogy with a couple spin offs and then just a world of new ideas. Even if they werent all good, teams were getting to try.
AAA games now take five years and a shedload of money to make. Even sequels that can re-use some assets and mechanics. It seems like remakes are being used to fill in the gaps. There's an argument that you can staff up and use a remake to train the team to then be able to make the actual sequel. It's cheaper and a safer bet than spending $100 million on a new IP and it bombing like Immortals of Aveum. It's not a trend I like, although good remakes like Resident Evil 4 or Deadspace certainly have a place. I'd much prefer more studios to feel like they can go out on a limb like Remedy but while the cost of making games is so high it's inevitable unfortunately. It's unsustainable going forward. The problem is that AA games are being squeezed out of existence. People aren't buying them enough which discourages publisher's from commissioning them. It feels like it's Indie or huge and little in-between. I don't know how that changes unless more people start buying the good AA games. Obviously I'm not suggesting people buy games they don't like. Outer Worlds feels like a game that managed this. It's a sensibly scaled game that has done well sales wise. Recently the new Prince of Persia has so far seemed to be doing the same (and having beaten it, it's a game I highly recommend if you like metroidvanias). It's not a sequel even though it's in a well known franchise. I'm rambling now so I'll stop sorry.
@@jedimastertom9267 Yes, but they dont inherently do anything besides providing context. Sequels or prequels, it's still a new game and as a result, only serve the story and nothing else
Speaking of sequels, could you make a sequel to your game docs video, I really liked it, but I have a couple game dev friends who think they're dumb. In your experience when has a game doc really helped or has there been times when not using one helped? I can only assume it's a balance, you don't wanna write everything down in your doc, but you don't wanna just go in blind without direction, thanks as always tim.
Are there particular examples of TV shows or games that have done exceptionally well or really poorly at adapting source material that you'd recommend examining?
Hey Tim, The part where you mention working on a game for 3 years being too long has me curious: if you were to wake up tomorrow at square one in your career, and say decide to work on an indie passion project without outside funding ("nights and weekends"), how would you scope features and plan your time? Would you still put yourself through traditional project management phases or keep everything very loose and informal? Also what do you feel would be the minimum team size you would personally need, or do you see yourself buying assets and outsourcing tasks? Thanks for all the wisdom!
I’d use an existing engine, do the code and design myself, and buy the art and sound assets. I’d keep the scope small and focus on a small subset of features, including one that is unique (or that my take on it is). As a person team, I’d keep things informal. Minimal design docs, mostly notes for myself. And I’d try to have fun with it
@@CainOnGamesWow I didn't expect a reply so soon, I really appreciate you taking the time to do so! Very level-headed approach, maybe self-evident from your perspective, but has given me much to think about...
Hey Tim! First of all I want to say that I am a big fan and I want to ask you a question about Game Development. When you are talking about video game ideas what do you mean exactly? Is it a theme that comes to mind, maybe a cool looking character that will kind of inspire the story of the game or gameplay mechanic that you think will be interesting in a video game? What do you consider first when coming up with ideas? I've read a some stuff about game design that stressed the importance of the theme of the game. Do you think that's something that influences game design the most?
I stopped taking part in online discussion of media after Cyberpunk came out. I loved the game, even from the start. Unhinged internet dweebs making literal death threats against the devs was pretty eye opening. I don’t even call myself a “gamer” anymore. I just like to play video games. It’s also funny to me how often people complain about “the writing” without ever being able to articulate why they don’t like it. Sometimes it involves some hand waving about plotting, pacing, or character motivations-more often than not they can’t tell you why those things are bad, they just parrot each other saying it. People need to learn to just enjoy things instead of getting fake internet points for being hateful.
Hi Tim, as a gamer and as a developer, do you have a preference for voiced or unvoiced player characters in RPGs? To me, voiced protagonists always limit replayability and roleplaying, but I'm curious what a professional thinks about it.
I like unvoiced PCs. Like being provided a pre-named PC or a PC with a specific background, a PC voice takes too much creation agency from me. Maybe I don't want to sound like that? Maybe I made a dumb character would could not talk like that? I mention it about 5 minutes into this video: ua-cam.com/video/3a9LxjNNhCc/v-deo.html
Speaking of sequels, what do you think of prequels (in video games)? Possible story of what happened before Fallout 1, Arcanum etc. Exploring some origins or maybe legends established in the previous game. I myself don't like idea of prequels because things improve, technology and mechanics gets better. We are put in a awkward position where past looks and plays better than stories that happen later.
My dad worked in audio, when music is 'remastered' (like an album 10-20 years later) sometimes the staff want to leave there 'mark on history'. A lot of the more hardcore fans get annoyed by the changes, it's why there's such a big community exchanging original versions of albums. There's also a complex web of rights and copyright that motivates some changes, each change makes a derivative work with a new copyright. One thing that I relay dont like is Zombie IP's, when some one picks up an old IP and makes a new product with no relation to the original past the name and a few small things. It's clearly just a lame way to get funding for a project, feels disingenuous and sadly fairly normal.
I like sequels when they're iterating on systems for the better increasing the depth and what not and not just to be different for the sake of being different. Could be anything from more streamlined game menus to skills, crafting or even new things that adds to the old ones. My prime experience of a big no-no was the simplification of alchemy in TES series. Going from Morrowind's encumbrance trade off of carrying heavy alchemy equipment, skill level to counter crafting failure chance into Skyrim's copy-past-alchemy-station-at-every-inn/alchemist-shop with 100% success rate and no limit to how many potions you could chug in the pause menu with 0 downsides was a disappointment.
Is there any way Arcanum could ever be released on consoles, similar to the Baldurs Gates games release on console? Can you get Bethesda or Interplay to release Fallout 1 /2/Tactics on consoles?
If I made a game, and it was good, and let's say since we weren't sure of the success we never had sequels in mind, everything gets wrapped up and all avenues explored... I'd be petrified being told by a publisher to make a sequel. Where do we go? What do we do? What was it the fans liked and wanted more of? We can't deliver that, the product is made to be one amd done! I wouldn't have it as a first option either but I do think it is worth giving the product a mild leeway to afford the possibility as you said with The Outer Worlds.
On the subject of Fallout 2, what did you think of the side quest which involved an actual ghost? Do you think supernatural elements didn't belong in Fallout? As far as I know nothing like that was ever done again.
Hey Tim, another great video! I had a question about non-linear story design. Whenever I start mapping out my ideas for storylines (from shorter side quests to the main plot) I always find myself plotting out so many branching paths that only continue to expand, and end up having difficulty pulling them back together to a handful of quality endings. I think it comes from being a DM and trying to predict how my players are going to handle scenarios. My question is this: how do you balance the quality and quantity of endings? Is it different for side quests and main quests? I would assume side quests can branch more than main quests. Thanks!
Hi, Tim. How would be the process to prepare to start making a game in an IP you haven't created and maybe even don't have much knowledge about? You've said it's important to be respectful. What are the best ways to be respectful to an existing IP?
Hey tim! Love your videos and i got a question about the end of fallout. I noticed the vault dweller not having his pip boy with him when the overseer exiled him and i wonder if that was a mistake from you guys or did the overseer just took it back?
On the subject of sequels, do you have an opinion on Van Buren? From the design documents it looks very interesting, probably better than Fallout 3, though they both had the problem of basically reusing the enemy from Fallout 2 (in VB it was an analogue within the NCR, whereas Fallout 3 literally reused them). The faction rivalries were very interesting, however.
What you say about people with pre-established ideas is exactly what we now see with BG3: people complaining that it’s not a Baldur’s Gate game! Because it’s too different from 1 & 2!
Hey Tim! I know it's not your typical subject material, but I was wondering, as someone who grew up in the DC suburbs, if you had any stories about your time in VA?
If i have to say i prefer how Valve manages their sequels. As far i know they only do sequels if they are going to add something to the previous game, sure, that way we get less games but we don't get cashgrabs either.
The gnome story... Is one of those "if you know, you know" things. I legitimately don't think it'd get into any game created nowadays, just like Far Cry 3's buck storyline... which is a shame. It was nice to have dark/gritty/horrifying content tucked away in stories.
How do you think, why do the right owners hesitate to make Arcanum sequel? We have extremely successful Baldur’s Gate 3, we have popular Fallout 4, we have intriguing Bloodlines 2 in development. Are they afraid of investing so much time, love and creativity in Arcanum as it needs? The world, setting, storyline, characters-everything was perfect! It’s even trendy nowadays to make open betas and be it touch with the whole fan community to collect feedback to make the release version as good as possible. Why Arcanum is still on the shelf, waiting?
Sir Tim I think you can now set thumbnails on your videos manually. Admittedly they are funny to me. In this one you look like you are staring in my soul. And maybe help with visibility too if you could adjust them a bit.
while the story is often worse in the sequel than in the original, but the gameplay is much better, more balanced, refined, changed for the better, there are most possobilities extended ideas etc. i made a comment a couple of month ago that almost all RPG's sequel are better than the original (with examples) and better mostly gameplay-wise and for me gameplays come first so i like sequels
Imho, if you create a great game with rich background, world etc with players loving it. There should be room for new adventures/stories in that world. Make something great and put in a drawer to collect dust seems such a waste.
What popped into my mind was Star Trek Discovery But I see why he phrases it generally, then you can fill in the blanks yourself! I watched the first two seasons, and enjoyed them _enough_. They're okayish. But I stopped after that. I check the IMDB page sometimes and I see the episodes after have terrible scores. Picard is another matter.
I started playing the Fallout franchise with Fallout Tactic. Then I played Fallout 2. Only after that, I played Fallout 1. I feel lucky that Fallout 2 is a thing. It's a sequel but like it much more than Fallout 1.
I don't remember if I said this, but concerning Arcanum 2 I didn't like your pitch to turn the game into an underground experience for the sake of one reference (that Jules story) nor I would enjoy the first person approach, like at all, seriously I would join the Dark Elves and pull a banish into the Void over Troika for doing that last thing. Well probably not that harsh, mostly because Elves don't exist but still, It would have been a "what were they thinkin'!?" moment for lil me. As for the first part, with a game that was built upon the reactivity of the world to your inputs (in both micro and macro level), I don't see the point into discovering new societies underground while up there in the surface you have the benefits and horrors of your meddling, it could have been (from my perspective) more interesting to see the reactivity of the world, but more importantly, the next step of the industrial revolution and the politics that would certainly play in the aftermath to the negotiations in Caladon (which I always fail for *cough* unknown reasons, seriously... ... SLAVA ARLAND!).
It's wonderful when people who make TV shows based on games or books or comics respect the source material and don't add needless things of their own. I have two examples of recent shows where they truly respected the source material: One Piece was a good adaptation because they embraced how silly the manga/anime is; yes the pirate hunter with katanas has green hair, he uses three swords, one of which is in his mouth; and Garp, a tough but "regular" man, can throw cannon balls with the force of a cannon. I could see in my head the cynical producer wanting to make a darker, more realistic One Piece which would have been a terrible mistake. The Last of Us was great because they followed the source material closely and although they added some stuff and changed some stuff, the core story was remarkably similar to the game, which in my opinion was a great thing. An example of something they changed a lot was Nick Offerman's character Bill who in the game appears at one point, you barely talk to him and then leave him. With that character they made a really good episode fleshing him out. I forgot to add, both of those shows worked and collaborated with the creators of the manga and game.
Tim says all of this about TV shows but a month later is applauding the Fallout TV shows that does all of the things he criticized. I'm aware that it is in the best interest of his career and professional relationships, but still is a bit jarring
Repetition is inherently less creative than originality. Specially in times of late stage capitalism which co-opts anything and everthing, e.g. ips, for greed. I've only liked and really played the first Fallout. Sequels can be good but usually are not.
I hate unnecessary sequels, especially to closed stories. I know everyone is crazy about Baldur's Gate 3, but that game has no right be called "Baldur's Gate". It feels so inauthentic and disrespectful. The way they threw out all of the original voice actors and just radically retconned the story, which was closed and done. And there is a special place in hell for the person who decided to name the game on steam "Baldur's Gate 3" so it would sort to the top of the Baldur's Gate games. And I have to admit when I heard that they were making Bloodlines 2, I said aloud "that's the dumbest idea I have heard." The biggest issue is that neither of those games need to be called Baldur's Gate or Bloodlines. But they decided to cash in on those franchises that they "love" in a way that cheapens the legacy of both those series. Fallout 3? That was more acceptable as a sequel because Fallout and Fallout 2 were already chronoloically distant. I think Fallout 3 is trash that just ignored the lore from Fallout. However, its failings I think are more a product of Bethesda's design philophies rather than callous and greedy indifference like we see from Larian or Paradox.
It's interesting that you have this perspective because you acknowledge that Fallout 3 was much more popular than Fallout 1 or 2, and of course Fallout 3 was extremely unfaithful. On the one hand, I think the original was done once and there's no point in trying to ape that from the future. That in itself is insincere and fraudulent. Now is not then, and you are not the original's creator. Even if you're changing the races or genders of characters, I think that's fine because this is your product, not the creator's. You're making something new based on their work. Do we really need more of the same, when we could try something new instead? However, I think you are very right that people in general are conservative and fans of the original won't like something that isn't essentially the same thing. Ultimately they are only interested in the sequel because of the original, so it's weird and arrogant to change that. Make your own thing if you want to innovate, don't piggyback on someone else's fame. I guess the question becomes whether you are making something for fans of the original or for new audiences. The latter is very risky because sometimes people who aren't even fans of the original still want something faithful to the original, but other times unfaithful sequels are much more successful than the original (...Fallout 3).
Bloodlines has a VERY special place in my heart. And while I used to want a sequel in the past, in turned out to be a monkey paw, it seems.
I definitely want a sequel. But I wanted one with the same "soul". I was super happy they announced a sequel with folk like Mitsoda. And then super bummed that he was fired. I fear the sequel will not capture the first one's "soul" properly now.
I want a remake. Keep all the good stuff, redo the shittier ones and update the graphics. Getting hard just thinking about it.
Bloodlines is a great game for sure.
And we will never get a real sequel
@@UlissesSampaio The latest gameplay I saw now that TheChineseRoom took over honestly didn't blow me away. It didn't really feel like a sequel to Bloodlines. Sure the graphics and combat were improved(though still nothing to write home about in 2024), but Bloodlines was great despite its combat. Not because of it. Meanwhile they decided to show a chunk of content from the game that did little to nothing to show off any RPG elements or social gameplay beyond some very basic Mass Effect level dialog boxes. You're also no longer just some guy you get to develop, but are instead an already fully formed character with a history. At the same time your choices for building your character are severely nerfed.
I had some hope when Paradox first picked up the IP and hired a few people from the original team, but after how those are all gone now and even the studio was completely removed from the project I've long lost any expectations of getting a good Bloodlines sequel. I can always hope I'm wrong though.
Ok lets flip the question then.
Would you ever do a Prequel game? Like what Rockstar did with RDR2? Which of your games would you make a Prequel to if you had the perfect conditions and team?
I think prequels have all the same issues as sequels, with regards to pre-established expectations and also having to stay within the established bounds of what that IP is.
So I don’t think that there’s really a difference.
All prequels are technically sequels, so the idea is the same. Same world, similar ideas and mechanics.
The main problem with prequels is you already know how it ends. This is potentially a huge impediment to making a truly significant game from the original. The journey to a known ending can be interesting, but it'd better tell a helluva story or it's going to crater. You can also use a prequel to lead into a different story from the original game, but here you're planning on multiple games or a game that leads to somewhere else from the origin tale. Either way, there's lots that can go wrong.
@@davefinfrock3324 I think Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel is a good example of this. It's a good game, and they tried to add new mechanics (like the gravity and oxygen systems), but ultimately it just feels like it should've been an expansion. This may also be partly because it does use the same engine foundation as BL2 so it really does just feel like an extension of that game, but I think even the narrative feels somewhat forcefully limited by the scope. Even though they went out of their way to introduce tons of new story, it's all somewhat irrelevant to mainline Borderlands. The vault hunters, Handsome Jack, and then Roland & Lilith are obviously significant in explaining how we got to BL2, but a lot of the rest feels like filler. The one *great* new character we got was Janey Springs.
@@davefinfrock3324the best example of a story that gets the best of both worlds in sequel/prequel is The Godfather Part II, so you get extra background that makes you appreciate the original more, plus a follow up that sharpens the IP. Haven't seen anyone pull that off in video games, but The Fall of Hyperion comes pretty damn close in science fiction.
Hello Tim! I am a game dev student taking Computer Science at the University level. My question to you is:
In your career, were there any software design aspects you learned in school/at work that you originally undervalued, or took for granted, that turned out to be incredibly important to understand? (in a game development context)
Specifically I’m asking about relatively minor aspects of the software design process that, once fully understood, changed the way you approach game programming
I undervalued the KISS methodology. KISS means Keep It Simple Stupid.
I cannot tell you how many times a programmer (including me) wrote some clever, tight, optimized code using pointers and fancy bit twiddling and was immensely proud of it...only to need to make a change to it 6 months later and not understanding their own code.
It's one thing to not understand someone else's code, but when you can't understand your own, just a few months later...well, that's sad.
I started playing Arcanum now because you've talked so much about them. I made an elf super model and I hope this isn't a massive mistake.
Its too easy...
@@SCARaw The game?
@@MordaedilArcanum is in really wired spot when comes to difficulty. It can be quite hard, especialy early on. But IF you know what you are doing, it is riddiculusly easy to break.
You said you made an elf super model, so I assume high beauty start with little to no combat skills. That one of the harder paths. Beauty is kind of a trap stat in Arcanum, yes it gives you boost to npc reaction ( and that can, for example, lower the prices in shops ), but preety much all dialogues that mean something in game check charisma ( and few important ones also inteligence ). So, yeah, your setting yourself for rough start, tho way later in game, this is quie a fun build, with literal army of companions doing all the combat for you.
Thank you for being respectful to Bloodlines. Even though I only played it about a year ago. I don't think I've ever been more immersed in a world before.
When Masahiro Sakurai was making Smash Bros, he said he could not stress enough how important it is to be respectful and authentic to the source material. This was very important, not only for the IP holders, but for the fans of these games as well. Especially in a game like Smash which has so many characters from so many different franchises. He said this went from their 3D models, to voice clips, to animations, to play style, to theme music! I think the 1993 Super Mario Bros movie with Bob Hoskins compared to the modern 2023 movie is a good example of how different something can look depending on how close it is to the source material lol (I like the Bob Hoskins Mario movie btw - it's silly and fun haha)
It's what every good writer says and what every major game or film studio seems to miss.
Then again, we have Smash Solid Snake...ooof
Little hints of greater potential world building for sequels are some of my favorite parts of reading item descriptions/books/terminals. Hearing about FORCE and the Septerra system in Outer worlds through the Ultimatum handgun is awesome. That, and funny things like Systems and Serfdoms, it's nice to know that getting a TTRPG game together is just as difficult in the nightmare that is Halcyon as it is in real life.
I like the idea of seeing how the industrial revolution continues in Arcanum 2. Imagine Dark Elf wizards fighting tanks, biplanes and machine guns. So much could still be done with the setting.
I find you and your video fascinating, I am learning a lot from you and you have become an inspiration to me so thanks and keep up the great work.
Someone at Microsoft give this man a big bag of money to make the sequel to Arcanum. Or at least consult a lot for a team that will make it.
Hey Tim. Arcanum sure had a lot of good quests and groups. Love the gnome half ogre quest. It just shows how this beutiful world with suits, bowing and courtseying, gentlemen and madames has such dark secrets and power hungry monsters etc. Arcanum is the only setting i think rivals Fallouts setting. The elves and dwarves are a great part of that. The wheel clan and the civil war with Lorek. The dark elves and Arronax. The elves and the silver lady. Magnus and the lost iron clan and so much more.
Are you talking about the gnome "conspiracy theory" quest line? I think Tim and Leonard Boyarsky have said that they regret adding it into Arcanum because of clear connotations with real antisemitic conspiracy theories.
@@wetrix2119 nonsense
@@fredrik3880I *think* it's mentioned in their long discussion videos. I apologise if I'm misremembering.
@@stuartmorley6894 yeah he (and you) arent remembering correctly. 42.50 2nd video with leonard.
Temple of Elemental Evil is the best D&D game in terms not of just mechanics and gameplay that mirror the board game's 3.5e but also captures the mood and setting. Thank you Tim and team for this jewel!
Arcanum NEEDS a Sequel! Now is the perfect time for it after the successs of BG3.
thanks for all the videos! not a game dev, but even as a huge fan of games your thoughts are super interesting to listen to. take care!
Hey Tim, your videos are inspirational. I think it's interesting how you say to design the setting and story before you even consider gameplay. That makes sense for RPGs. I think it's to your credit that your games are so fun to play.
I played The Outer Worlds based on your videos. I loved it. The writing is hilarious yet tells a compelling story, and the gameplay is fun. I'm looking forward to the sequel.
That does indeed cover most of my questions I had about sequels 😂
Would still be nice (if nearly impossible) to get Troika back together for Arcanum 2. Who knows? Maybe some day
Hi Tim, what were some misconceptions you had in Temple and Vampires that totally surprised you when asking the owners of those IPs? And what are the most funny or absurd misconceptions some people had about your IPs? Thank for the channel, wholesome and cozy.
Glad to hear that Arcanum was one of those intended to be continued. It sure won't be exactly what you had in mind, but I hope that little tabletop design I'm basing around it is respectful enough. Might drop a link here once it's done if anyone's curious.
If I recall correctly, the Unreliable itself was even from another colony system!
There's a reason why Studio Ghibli movies don't have sequels, the worlds exist to tell a single story and explore specific themes.
Spot on.
The Cat Returns was a spin-off of Whispers of the Heart, but that and the short Mei and the Catbus are as close as they've gotten to sequels.
Forgive me if you've already talked about this and I'm sure you've been asked a million times, but hypothetically if you were in charge of a Fallout sequel today, what kind of story beats and mechanics would you want to implement.
I do feel the recent entertainment generations have struggled with moving on to create new.
Some of it is greed to milk IP's and some is a lack of being able to let go.
But i think what made the early to late 2000's so special (to me at least) is youd get at most a trilogy with a couple spin offs and then just a world of new ideas. Even if they werent all good, teams were getting to try.
AAA games now take five years and a shedload of money to make. Even sequels that can re-use some assets and mechanics. It seems like remakes are being used to fill in the gaps. There's an argument that you can staff up and use a remake to train the team to then be able to make the actual sequel. It's cheaper and a safer bet than spending $100 million on a new IP and it bombing like Immortals of Aveum. It's not a trend I like, although good remakes like Resident Evil 4 or Deadspace certainly have a place.
I'd much prefer more studios to feel like they can go out on a limb like Remedy but while the cost of making games is so high it's inevitable unfortunately. It's unsustainable going forward. The problem is that AA games are being squeezed out of existence. People aren't buying them enough which discourages publisher's from commissioning them. It feels like it's Indie or huge and little in-between. I don't know how that changes unless more people start buying the good AA games. Obviously I'm not suggesting people buy games they don't like. Outer Worlds feels like a game that managed this. It's a sensibly scaled game that has done well sales wise. Recently the new Prince of Persia has so far seemed to be doing the same (and having beaten it, it's a game I highly recommend if you like metroidvanias). It's not a sequel even though it's in a well known franchise.
I'm rambling now so I'll stop sorry.
@@stuartmorley6894 Bigger companies will start buying up successful indie IPs, it's already happened with risk of rain iirc.
Arcanum 2077 would be an interesting idea, the digital/virtual revolution in a world of industrialized magic haha
The Magipunk :) ? Shadowrun Rpg kinda touches on exactly that idea.
You mean Shadowrun?
How do you feel about prequels Tim?
Brill question, I'm not personally a fan of them but would love to hear Tim's thoughts!
What's the difference?
@@riverman6462a prequel is set before like how red dead 2 is set several years before red dead 1
@@jedimastertom9267 Yes, but they dont inherently do anything besides providing context. Sequels or prequels, it's still a new game and as a result, only serve the story and nothing else
Your opinion on TV shows these days is one I share and why I largely ignore "remakes" or TV series based on established works.
Speaking of sequels, could you make a sequel to your game docs video, I really liked it, but I have a couple game dev friends who think they're dumb. In your experience when has a game doc really helped or has there been times when not using one helped? I can only assume it's a balance, you don't wanna write everything down in your doc, but you don't wanna just go in blind without direction, thanks as always tim.
Are there particular examples of TV shows or games that have done exceptionally well or really poorly at adapting source material that you'd recommend examining?
Wow, you talked to Gary Gygax, Im jealous
Its not the first choice, but the best choice!
Hey Tim, The part where you mention working on a game for 3 years being too long has me curious: if you were to wake up tomorrow at square one in your career, and say decide to work on an indie passion project without outside funding ("nights and weekends"), how would you scope features and plan your time? Would you still put yourself through traditional project management phases or keep everything very loose and informal? Also what do you feel would be the minimum team size you would personally need, or do you see yourself buying assets and outsourcing tasks? Thanks for all the wisdom!
I’d use an existing engine, do the code and design myself, and buy the art and sound assets. I’d keep the scope small and focus on a small subset of features, including one that is unique (or that my take on it is). As a person team, I’d keep things informal. Minimal design docs, mostly notes for myself. And I’d try to have fun with it
@@CainOnGamesWow I didn't expect a reply so soon, I really appreciate you taking the time to do so! Very level-headed approach, maybe self-evident from your perspective, but has given me much to think about...
Hey Tim! First of all I want to say that I am a big fan and I want to ask you a question about Game Development. When you are talking about video game ideas what do you mean exactly? Is it a theme that comes to mind, maybe a cool looking character that will kind of inspire the story of the game or gameplay mechanic that you think will be interesting in a video game? What do you consider first when coming up with ideas? I've read a some stuff about game design that stressed the importance of the theme of the game. Do you think that's something that influences game design the most?
I stopped taking part in online discussion of media after Cyberpunk came out. I loved the game, even from the start. Unhinged internet dweebs making literal death threats against the devs was pretty eye opening. I don’t even call myself a “gamer” anymore. I just like to play video games.
It’s also funny to me how often people complain about “the writing” without ever being able to articulate why they don’t like it. Sometimes it involves some hand waving about plotting, pacing, or character motivations-more often than not they can’t tell you why those things are bad, they just parrot each other saying it.
People need to learn to just enjoy things instead of getting fake internet points for being hateful.
Not everyone tries to be respectful,
We really appreciate the good hearted effort
GOOD MORNING, Mr. Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Tim, as a gamer and as a developer, do you have a preference for voiced or unvoiced player characters in RPGs? To me, voiced protagonists always limit replayability and roleplaying, but I'm curious what a professional thinks about it.
I like unvoiced PCs. Like being provided a pre-named PC or a PC with a specific background, a PC voice takes too much creation agency from me. Maybe I don't want to sound like that? Maybe I made a dumb character would could not talk like that?
I mention it about 5 minutes into this video: ua-cam.com/video/3a9LxjNNhCc/v-deo.html
Speaking of sequels, what do you think of prequels (in video games)?
Possible story of what happened before Fallout 1, Arcanum etc. Exploring some origins or maybe legends established in the previous game.
I myself don't like idea of prequels because things improve, technology and mechanics gets better. We are put in a awkward position where past looks and plays better than stories that happen later.
My dad worked in audio, when music is 'remastered' (like an album 10-20 years later) sometimes the staff want to leave there 'mark on history'. A lot of the more hardcore fans get annoyed by the changes, it's why there's such a big community exchanging original versions of albums. There's also a complex web of rights and copyright that motivates some changes, each change makes a derivative work with a new copyright.
One thing that I relay dont like is Zombie IP's, when some one picks up an old IP and makes a new product with no relation to the original past the name and a few small things. It's clearly just a lame way to get funding for a project, feels disingenuous and sadly fairly normal.
I like sequels when they're iterating on systems for the better increasing the depth and what not and not just to be different for the sake of being different. Could be anything from more streamlined game menus to skills, crafting or even new things that adds to the old ones. My prime experience of a big no-no was the simplification of alchemy in TES series. Going from Morrowind's encumbrance trade off of carrying heavy alchemy equipment, skill level to counter crafting failure chance into Skyrim's copy-past-alchemy-station-at-every-inn/alchemist-shop with 100% success rate and no limit to how many potions you could chug in the pause menu with 0 downsides was a disappointment.
Is there any way Arcanum could ever be released on consoles, similar to the Baldurs Gates games release on console? Can you get Bethesda or Interplay to release Fallout 1 /2/Tactics on consoles?
It's such an injustice that this channel doesn't get more views.
If I made a game, and it was good, and let's say since we weren't sure of the success we never had sequels in mind, everything gets wrapped up and all avenues explored... I'd be petrified being told by a publisher to make a sequel. Where do we go? What do we do? What was it the fans liked and wanted more of? We can't deliver that, the product is made to be one amd done! I wouldn't have it as a first option either but I do think it is worth giving the product a mild leeway to afford the possibility as you said with The Outer Worlds.
On the subject of Fallout 2, what did you think of the side quest which involved an actual ghost? Do you think supernatural elements didn't belong in Fallout? As far as I know nothing like that was ever done again.
ok but I need to know what shows you're shading tim, tell the world, it's not your industry it's ok!!
Hey Tim, another great video! I had a question about non-linear story design. Whenever I start mapping out my ideas for storylines (from shorter side quests to the main plot) I always find myself plotting out so many branching paths that only continue to expand, and end up having difficulty pulling them back together to a handful of quality endings. I think it comes from being a DM and trying to predict how my players are going to handle scenarios. My question is this: how do you balance the quality and quantity of endings? Is it different for side quests and main quests? I would assume side quests can branch more than main quests. Thanks!
Hey Tim, what was the recent example? Avatar? House of the Dragon/Game of Throne?
Hi, Tim. How would be the process to prepare to start making a game in an IP you haven't created and maybe even don't have much knowledge about? You've said it's important to be respectful. What are the best ways to be respectful to an existing IP?
Hey tim! Love your videos and i got a question about the end of fallout. I noticed the vault dweller not having his pip boy with him when the overseer exiled him and i wonder if that was a mistake from you guys or did the overseer just took it back?
On the subject of sequels, do you have an opinion on Van Buren? From the design documents it looks very interesting, probably better than Fallout 3, though they both had the problem of basically reusing the enemy from Fallout 2 (in VB it was an analogue within the NCR, whereas Fallout 3 literally reused them). The faction rivalries were very interesting, however.
“What’s our battlecry? MOTS! More Of The Same! Yeeeha!”
Probably talking about Rings of Power at the end there? heh
The Witcher series on Netflix would also fit this description to a tee. It's disgraceful how badly the showrunners butchered that IP.
What you say about people with pre-established ideas is exactly what we now see with BG3: people complaining that it’s not a Baldur’s Gate game! Because it’s too different from 1 & 2!
I know you probably won't touch this question but does this apply even to hypothetical future Fallout?
Hey Tim! I know it's not your typical subject material, but I was wondering, as someone who grew up in the DC suburbs, if you had any stories about your time in VA?
If i have to say i prefer how Valve manages their sequels. As far i know they only do sequels if they are going to add something to the previous game, sure, that way we get less games but we don't get cashgrabs either.
At 8:51 Homie is definitely talking about halo tv show😂
Ah thanks for pointing, i don't know what is he referring to
The gnome story... Is one of those "if you know, you know" things. I legitimately don't think it'd get into any game created nowadays, just like Far Cry 3's buck storyline... which is a shame. It was nice to have dark/gritty/horrifying content tucked away in stories.
I wish it had a resolution or someway to interact with it, even if trying to reveal it led to a cover up.
Tim, when is your book coming out? seriously, when is that coming out
good points
How do you think, why do the right owners hesitate to make Arcanum sequel? We have extremely successful Baldur’s Gate 3, we have popular Fallout 4, we have intriguing Bloodlines 2 in development.
Are they afraid of investing so much time, love and creativity in Arcanum as it needs? The world, setting, storyline, characters-everything was perfect! It’s even trendy nowadays to make open betas and be it touch with the whole fan community to collect feedback to make the release version as good as possible. Why Arcanum is still on the shelf, waiting?
Sir Tim I think you can now set thumbnails on your videos manually. Admittedly they are funny to me. In this one you look like you are staring in my soul. And maybe help with visibility too if you could adjust them a bit.
❤💙
Hi everyone, it's me, Tim's fan
while the story is often worse in the sequel than in the original, but the gameplay is much better, more balanced, refined, changed for the better, there are most possobilities extended ideas etc. i made a comment a couple of month ago that almost all RPG's sequel are better than the original (with examples) and better mostly gameplay-wise and for me gameplays come first so i like sequels
Hey Tim
Hi Tim :)
i want to be respectful to Tim 🎉
Imho, if you create a great game with rich background, world etc with players loving it. There should be room for new adventures/stories in that world. Make something great and put in a drawer to collect dust seems such a waste.
It's not your first choice, IT'S THE SPACERS CHOICE 😊
If the last bit about TV shows is referring to True Detective season 4, then it's spot on.
That was garbage
Also The Witcher and Rings of Power
@@olliepwnsall absolutely.
What popped into my mind was Star Trek Discovery
But I see why he phrases it generally, then you can fill in the blanks yourself!
I watched the first two seasons, and enjoyed them _enough_. They're okayish. But I stopped after that. I check the IMDB page sometimes and I see the episodes after have terrible scores.
Picard is another matter.
@@thomasbayer1843 Haven't seen it. Gave up on Star Trek awhile ago.
allo Tim!
I started playing the Fallout franchise with Fallout Tactic. Then I played Fallout 2. Only after that, I played Fallout 1. I feel lucky that Fallout 2 is a thing. It's a sequel but like it much more than Fallout 1.
Hi Tim
Eey Tim
I don't remember if I said this, but concerning Arcanum 2 I didn't like your pitch to turn the game into an underground experience for the sake of one reference (that Jules story) nor I would enjoy the first person approach, like at all, seriously I would join the Dark Elves and pull a banish into the Void over Troika for doing that last thing. Well probably not that harsh, mostly because Elves don't exist but still, It would have been a "what were they thinkin'!?" moment for lil me.
As for the first part, with a game that was built upon the reactivity of the world to your inputs (in both micro and macro level), I don't see the point into discovering new societies underground while up there in the surface you have the benefits and horrors of your meddling, it could have been (from my perspective) more interesting to see the reactivity of the world, but more importantly, the next step of the industrial revolution and the politics that would certainly play in the aftermath to the negotiations in Caladon (which I always fail for *cough* unknown reasons, seriously... ... SLAVA ARLAND!).
It's wonderful when people who make TV shows based on games or books or comics respect the source material and don't add needless things of their own. I have two examples of recent shows where they truly respected the source material: One Piece was a good adaptation because they embraced how silly the manga/anime is; yes the pirate hunter with katanas has green hair, he uses three swords, one of which is in his mouth; and Garp, a tough but "regular" man, can throw cannon balls with the force of a cannon. I could see in my head the cynical producer wanting to make a darker, more realistic One Piece which would have been a terrible mistake.
The Last of Us was great because they followed the source material closely and although they added some stuff and changed some stuff, the core story was remarkably similar to the game, which in my opinion was a great thing. An example of something they changed a lot was Nick Offerman's character Bill who in the game appears at one point, you barely talk to him and then leave him. With that character they made a really good episode fleshing him out.
I forgot to add, both of those shows worked and collaborated with the creators of the manga and game.
"They were so desperate to add their own things that they jammed it in there" the whole of my fears for the Elder Scrolls 6 summed up.
Tim says all of this about TV shows but a month later is applauding the Fallout TV shows that does all of the things he criticized. I'm aware that it is in the best interest of his career and professional relationships, but still is a bit jarring
The Halo show is great, if that's what he's referencing. It hasn't even reached the point of the games.
Bloodlines is 3rd person game at least for melee...
Arcanum is topdown isometric game not 3rd person
Repetition is inherently less creative than originality. Specially in times of late stage capitalism which co-opts anything and everthing, e.g. ips, for greed. I've only liked and really played the first Fallout. Sequels can be good but usually are not.
I hate unnecessary sequels, especially to closed stories. I know everyone is crazy about Baldur's Gate 3, but that game has no right be called "Baldur's Gate". It feels so inauthentic and disrespectful. The way they threw out all of the original voice actors and just radically retconned the story, which was closed and done. And there is a special place in hell for the person who decided to name the game on steam "Baldur's Gate 3" so it would sort to the top of the Baldur's Gate games.
And I have to admit when I heard that they were making Bloodlines 2, I said aloud "that's the dumbest idea I have heard."
The biggest issue is that neither of those games need to be called Baldur's Gate or Bloodlines. But they decided to cash in on those franchises that they "love" in a way that cheapens the legacy of both those series.
Fallout 3? That was more acceptable as a sequel because Fallout and Fallout 2 were already chronoloically distant. I think Fallout 3 is trash that just ignored the lore from Fallout. However, its failings I think are more a product of Bethesda's design philophies rather than callous and greedy indifference like we see from Larian or Paradox.
It's interesting that you have this perspective because you acknowledge that Fallout 3 was much more popular than Fallout 1 or 2, and of course Fallout 3 was extremely unfaithful.
On the one hand, I think the original was done once and there's no point in trying to ape that from the future. That in itself is insincere and fraudulent. Now is not then, and you are not the original's creator. Even if you're changing the races or genders of characters, I think that's fine because this is your product, not the creator's. You're making something new based on their work. Do we really need more of the same, when we could try something new instead?
However, I think you are very right that people in general are conservative and fans of the original won't like something that isn't essentially the same thing. Ultimately they are only interested in the sequel because of the original, so it's weird and arrogant to change that. Make your own thing if you want to innovate, don't piggyback on someone else's fame.
I guess the question becomes whether you are making something for fans of the original or for new audiences. The latter is very risky because sometimes people who aren't even fans of the original still want something faithful to the original, but other times unfaithful sequels are much more successful than the original (...Fallout 3).