The best feature they could all add is a time based charging speed so let's say that you expect to go back to the car in an hour so you should be able to set the charging to let's say 90% and be done in an hour. Then the speed can be adjusted based on that. That's the best case scenario to use in my opinion.
On a public charger, it is kinda unfair to those who wait in Ladestau, to let them wait just topreserve your Battery. My fav ist the approach of Nio Swap. Batterys are charged relatively slow in the station, but you can get one pretty quick. Ofcorse i know, there are just 2 of them in Europe, but just as an Idea, as one option more. Everything ofcorse is just for the need of quick charge on a trip. On regular daily base i guess it plays no role, majority of users charge slow (maby at home).
@@Bud_Terence yeah that could become an issue if people are assholes but then again, if someone let's his car parked to charge while he eats for an hour what changes? The car would just sit at max setup charge (80% for Tesla for example) for half an hour and you still won't be able to charge there. Unless the car moves away from the charging lot by itself but that's a different story.
@@Bud_Terence I think battery swap for cars will probaly never became mainstream. Battery swap is much more expensive compared to ultra fast charging. Most people would rather pay $20 for 18 minute fast charging than $100 for 3 minute battery swap. 18 minutes is real time for Ioniq 5, KIA EV6 and similar cars. THat is today. But in the future in 5 years fast charging would probably only take 8 minutes or even 5 minutes. Who would pay 5 times the price, $80 extra to save just 2 minutes? Nobody.
@@Valsiphez Again, how would faster charge make me come back within the hour that I approximated as being the time I'll be back? If let's say I have to go to a meeting for an hour and leave my car to charge and is done in 20 minutes I will still not be able to come and pick up the car before the hour passes so how does faster charging time help in this situation? A more normal use case would be going to a restaurant to eat, if you are still eating you won't stop and go move your car anyway so it will just stay there at 80% while you eat. If the car gets the capability to go to another parking lot by itself when the charging is done then sure I agree on fast charge, someone comes and unplugs the car because they need to charge and then the car could sense what is going on and move away to another parking lot. Honestly I don't think fast charging is such a big deal as my phone has already had over a thousand sessions of fast charge (30W (5v-6A) which people back in 2019 said would kill the battery in a year) and it still holds pretty well even tho it's a 3 year old phone battery that didn't had active cooling while charging and was charged once and sometimes twice every day since I bought it in May 2019. I usually charge it to maximum of 90% and don't discharge under 10% tho, charging to 100% and going under 10% is what is actually hurting the batteries more on the long term.
One implication I didn't hear you discuss: the effect on throughput at a charging station. In a Ladestau scenario you don't want anyone ahead of you to be using eco charge.. :)
I would like to have access to charge my full battery for the niche scenarios where I really do need 100% to make it where I'm going. It only happens about 10 times a year here in Canada but it still happens where there is no chargers.
@@kompost1 Had a niro at a 350kw Ionity charger sitting at 73kw@43%SoC... That was rough. But when the last charger was occupated he left. So all good I guess.
I think we should have more fast chargers of different power, and strategically put the fastest where needed and some slower where people tend to go out for diner or shopping. And yes Tesla should add that feature to every car. It would be super useful.
I'm divided about that function. Surely it's great for a longer stop with family but on the other hand with ladestau this would be an issue. As Nio has with its battery swap system. There should be a centralised queue system for charging stations so you have no queue jumpers and then also stop the eco function and notify the owner.
Having the option available would always be beneficial, then one would decide which one to chose, in function of e.g. stoppage time (meal for instance) and how charging costs are calculated (some public chargers have a per minute cost component). Freedom of choice rules!
Everyone should for the benefit of not making a charging queue, leave the station as soon as possible. I assume the Eco mode may contribute to less heat loss while charging, thus giving a better WLTP and saving precious energy in these days though.
7:20 using the battery is unhealthy for the battery. Like using anything, is usually unhealthy for the thing. The important thing is - how unhealthy. Sure, 0.1c is less unhealthy than 0.5c, and 0.5c is less unhealthy than 1.0c. But at some point it becomes ridiculous. Usage wears batteries. If you get car lifetime of battery life with 0.5c then going lower does not have much point if you can choose. Fast charging at the rate where almost no extra cooling is required to keep battery temp ~30c - I would consider healthy. Your car will fall apart before the battery, if you use it like that. My leaf original battery was connected to fast charger over 6500 times, and it did 330 000km. It has no cooling. With cooling and moderate fast charge speeds you can easily go 1 000 000 km.
What does the EQS owner's manual say about this feature? Perhaps 'eco' refers to the grid (ie charging more slowly reduces demand from dirty peaker plants).
My MS70 is limited to 97-98kw. 60kw is available calculating the charging amount. I got it 1.5 years ago with 114k miles now it’s over 130k the range haven’t change.
Definitely allow the option, I like a relaxed lunch from time to time, suits battery too. If I am in a hurry faster is better and just like Bjorn in the 1000km challenge I might choose to go for max charge speed and 60% SOC on the way.
This is an interesting subject, in that th eco charge is also in an ID. 4. When you reduce the charge rate from 34mph on a 240v system here in the USA ( at home) it reduces to 6mph. So I have noticed that I get more range at 65mph on the same SoC of 80%. It typically goes from 213 range to 227 range at 80% SoC from a charger rate of 34mph to 6mph for a longer range. I don't know what it does on a fast charger. I don't know if that setting works for the DC charger. Maybe you can test it out and veryfy my theory which seems to be in line with what MB is doing and with what you are talking about here.
An option is always welcome but I am not a fan of blocking fast charging infrastructure on purpose especially in combination with kWh based prices. If I charge and eat I will either be fast, use a 50kW charger or go and move the car when I am done charging to 80-90% to free up the stalls for other drivers. We are more and more running into situation of "Ladestau" so it won't help blocking that infrastructure even more.
Don't really understand the need for this... I have 85% DC charging total in my Model 3 Performance 2019. (no home charging) I have 210 000km+ on the odometer, 49 000 kWh DC charged total. 900 discharge cycles, 957 charge cycles, roughly 11% degradation. I hammer the shit out of my car, quite often charge to 100%.. got -30C in winter here in Sweden... Most stuff probably not optimal for battery health. For a regular person, who just drives normally and DC charges once a month... why would you need this "eco charge"? Is german autos batteries "shieeeet"?
Wondering if you have that much driving and no home charging, isn’t it almost as expensive as driving a ICE car. And you also must have a lot of your time wasted on charging? Is it still worth it?
@@arnejohansen8677 averaging about 2-2,5kr/kWh on DC charging since 2019. MER Sverige DC fastcharging network subscribtion has good deals on electricity. Some time spent on charging, but I do other stuff while charging that I otherwise would've done.
So first they (VW, AUDI, Porsche e.o.) are bragging about their cars are better because they can charge MUCH FASTER THAN TESLA, and then they add eco mode because their fast charging kills their own battery. HAHAHA vwgroup is a silly marketing company!
The best feature they could all add is a time based charging speed so let's say that you expect to go back to the car in an hour so you should be able to set the charging to let's say 90% and be done in an hour. Then the speed can be adjusted based on that. That's the best case scenario to use in my opinion.
On a public charger, it is kinda unfair to those who wait in Ladestau, to let them wait just topreserve your Battery. My fav ist the approach of Nio Swap. Batterys are charged relatively slow in the station, but you can get one pretty quick. Ofcorse i know, there are just 2 of them in Europe, but just as an Idea, as one option more. Everything ofcorse is just for the need of quick charge on a trip. On regular daily base i guess it plays no role, majority of users charge slow (maby at home).
@@Bud_Terence yeah that could become an issue if people are assholes but then again, if someone let's his car parked to charge while he eats for an hour what changes? The car would just sit at max setup charge (80% for Tesla for example) for half an hour and you still won't be able to charge there. Unless the car moves away from the charging lot by itself but that's a different story.
You‘ll regret this statement next time you are in Ladestau and you don’t see anyone leaving for an hour
@@Bud_Terence I think battery swap for cars will probaly never became mainstream. Battery swap is much more expensive compared to ultra fast charging. Most people would rather pay $20 for 18 minute fast charging than $100 for 3 minute battery swap. 18 minutes is real time for Ioniq 5, KIA EV6 and similar cars. THat is today. But in the future in 5 years fast charging would probably only take 8 minutes or even 5 minutes. Who would pay 5 times the price, $80 extra to save just 2 minutes? Nobody.
@@Valsiphez Again, how would faster charge make me come back within the hour that I approximated as being the time I'll be back? If let's say I have to go to a meeting for an hour and leave my car to charge and is done in 20 minutes I will still not be able to come and pick up the car before the hour passes so how does faster charging time help in this situation? A more normal use case would be going to a restaurant to eat, if you are still eating you won't stop and go move your car anyway so it will just stay there at 80% while you eat. If the car gets the capability to go to another parking lot by itself when the charging is done then sure I agree on fast charge, someone comes and unplugs the car because they need to charge and then the car could sense what is going on and move away to another parking lot. Honestly I don't think fast charging is such a big deal as my phone has already had over a thousand sessions of fast charge (30W (5v-6A) which people back in 2019 said would kill the battery in a year) and it still holds pretty well even tho it's a 3 year old phone battery that didn't had active cooling while charging and was charged once and sometimes twice every day since I bought it in May 2019. I usually charge it to maximum of 90% and don't discharge under 10% tho, charging to 100% and going under 10% is what is actually hurting the batteries more on the long term.
One implication I didn't hear you discuss: the effect on throughput at a charging station. In a Ladestau scenario you don't want anyone ahead of you to be using eco charge.. :)
Purposely slow charging should be penalised by Ionity
This is a very important point, IMO.
Thank you Bjorn, very interesting and informative.
I would like to have access to charge my full battery for the niche scenarios where I really do need 100% to make it where I'm going. It only happens about 10 times a year here in Canada but it still happens where there is no chargers.
when ppl start blocking HPCs with this option... 🤮 shouldn't be allowed to use.
Anyone charging >100kW at Ionity won't get a second glance.
It's the no-shows at
@@kompost1 Had a niro at a 350kw Ionity charger sitting at 73kw@43%SoC... That was rough. But when the last charger was occupated he left. So all good I guess.
I would go for Eco when having dinner while traveling :-)
I think we should have more fast chargers of different power, and strategically put the fastest where needed and some slower where people tend to go out for diner or shopping.
And yes Tesla should add that feature to every car. It would be super useful.
Eco charging is optimal when it differ 5% in kWh charged. In The long run it will be many kWh and much money saved
I'm divided about that function. Surely it's great for a longer stop with family but on the other hand with ladestau this would be an issue.
As Nio has with its battery swap system. There should be a centralised queue system for charging stations so you have no queue jumpers and then also stop the eco function and notify the owner.
Having the option available would always be beneficial, then one would decide which one to chose, in function of e.g. stoppage time (meal for instance) and how charging costs are calculated (some public chargers have a per minute cost component). Freedom of choice rules!
Everyone should for the benefit of not making a charging queue, leave the station as soon as possible. I assume the Eco mode may contribute to less heat loss while charging, thus giving a better WLTP and saving precious energy in these days though.
damn, what eqs calls eco charging equals some other brands’ fast charging.
7:20 using the battery is unhealthy for the battery. Like using anything, is usually unhealthy for the thing. The important thing is - how unhealthy. Sure, 0.1c is less unhealthy than 0.5c, and 0.5c is less unhealthy than 1.0c. But at some point it becomes ridiculous. Usage wears batteries.
If you get car lifetime of battery life with 0.5c then going lower does not have much point if you can choose. Fast charging at the rate where almost no extra cooling is required to keep battery temp ~30c - I would consider healthy. Your car will fall apart before the battery, if you use it like that.
My leaf original battery was connected to fast charger over 6500 times, and it did 330 000km. It has no cooling. With cooling and moderate fast charge speeds you can easily go 1 000 000 km.
What does the EQS owner's manual say about this feature? Perhaps 'eco' refers to the grid (ie charging more slowly reduces demand from dirty peaker plants).
Could it be interesting to do this test in cold weather? Maybe it will be better to use ECO mode during summer?
My MS70 is limited to 97-98kw. 60kw is available calculating the charging amount. I got it 1.5 years ago with 114k miles now it’s over 130k the range haven’t change.
@Bjørn Nyland will You test new Kia Niro EV ?
Yes
Definitely allow the option, I like a relaxed lunch from time to time, suits battery too. If I am in a hurry faster is better and just like Bjorn in the 1000km challenge I might choose to go for max charge speed and 60% SOC on the way.
Bjorn, can you talk about potentially causing the battery to " plate out" ?
Very interesting topic Bjørn. Taycan ECO charge is awesom. Watch the low amps compared to EQS. Battery celles do like lower amps.
Low amp is because of 800V technology. But this doesn't tell anythink about how many amps an individual cell sees.
This is an interesting subject, in that th eco charge is also in an ID. 4. When you reduce the charge rate from 34mph on a 240v system here in the USA ( at home) it reduces to 6mph. So I have noticed that I get more range at 65mph on the same SoC of 80%. It typically goes from 213 range to 227 range at 80% SoC from a charger rate of 34mph to 6mph for a longer range. I don't know what it does on a fast charger. I don't know if that setting works for the DC charger. Maybe you can test it out and veryfy my theory which seems to be in line with what MB is doing and with what you are talking about here.
Tesla started expansion in Asia with a hiring campaign in Bankok, 🇹🇭Thailand
I know. It's been in the Thai news for 6 months now.
@@bjornnyland Bjorn, I look forward to see your reporting this winter on Tesla and other EVs in Thailand.😀
Which scenario is better for the battery health: low % and high speed or high % and low speed?
none of these
the 75/150 kwh charger stal will save the battery anyway 🙂
*kW
Interesting. But for my MG ZS EV, Eco charge is constant ON.. lol
An option is always welcome but I am not a fan of blocking fast charging infrastructure on purpose especially in combination with kWh based prices.
If I charge and eat I will either be fast, use a 50kW charger or go and move the car when I am done charging to 80-90% to free up the stalls for other drivers.
We are more and more running into situation of "Ladestau" so it won't help blocking that infrastructure even more.
can you switch taycan to eco charge at 80% and charge faster??????
Probably not because the temperature is too low.
@@bjornnyland next time you have one on the charger, could you check? ^^
Don't really understand the need for this... I have 85% DC charging total in my Model 3 Performance 2019. (no home charging)
I have 210 000km+ on the odometer, 49 000 kWh DC charged total. 900 discharge cycles, 957 charge cycles, roughly 11% degradation.
I hammer the shit out of my car, quite often charge to 100%.. got -30C in winter here in Sweden... Most stuff probably not optimal for battery health.
For a regular person, who just drives normally and DC charges once a month... why would you need this "eco charge"? Is german autos batteries "shieeeet"?
Wondering if you have that much driving and no home charging, isn’t it almost as expensive as driving a ICE car. And you also must have a lot of your time wasted on charging? Is it still worth it?
@@arnejohansen8677 averaging about 2-2,5kr/kWh on DC charging since 2019. MER Sverige DC fastcharging network subscribtion has good deals on electricity. Some time spent on charging, but I do other stuff while charging that I otherwise would've done.
So first they (VW, AUDI, Porsche e.o.) are bragging about their cars are better because they can charge MUCH FASTER THAN TESLA, and then they add eco mode because their fast charging kills their own battery. HAHAHA vwgroup is a silly marketing company!
have you asked Ford Norway to loan you the F150 Lightning? Saw it at tek.no that Ford has a press car in Norway :)