Look I love your knowledge of music, but what I *really* love is your approach to music. "It's just two sounds. As long as you know them and know how to produce them you're fine. It's not up to me to tell you what to like.". That is the true power of mastering the theory. Hats off to you, Tommaso, and thank you for all your work. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very good explanation ... you can get away with anything if you can voice lead effectively. Chopin Prelude in Em comes to my mind about these falling melodic lines inside the chords.
A few thoughts: 1.) Thank you so much... for using terms like voice-leading and encouraging people to -- gasp -- pick up a pencil and -- bigger gasp -- write down ideas on paper. 2.) Didn't I hear tell that that ol' flash-in-the-pan, one-hit-wonder Beethoven used to do that? 3.) Tchaikovsky's Dance of the Reed Flutes is a great example of mode shift/modal borrowing. It incorporates the ii half-diminished 7th chord in a very, very obvious-to-the-ear way. You can see/hear it in the 6th measure of the following: ua-cam.com/video/7SQFq59ca2E/v-deo.html
WOW! Thanks a lot! I've just tried it and immediately realized simplicity and richness of this idea! So for example in C major right away I've come up with the following: Gm -> Dm -> C -> G -> repeat Or Am -> Ebmaj7 -> Dm, and so on and so forth. And I must say these two are completely new to me.
Great lesson as always ...this is my favorite technique when I write music ..i actually started doing this without knowing what i was doing... but recently i understood what i was doing and now it's one of my favorite techniques in songwriting
You have a strange way of reading my mind. I was just thinking about why that D chord in "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" works so well. It's the G -> F# -> F in the Am/G, D/F/#, F. Thank you.
Excellent videos as always. Thanks! (Just wanted to say, I believe the question in last week's video "Are you an engineer?" is a Mattias Kranz reference)
I stared doing some study over this matter - choosing some x -> I chord movements (e.g. IV -> I or iv -> I) and trying to fit some borrowed chords / secondary dominants in between. What confuses me is this: why the heck does it work only if the voice is lead descendingly but not other way around? Why IV -> iv -> I sound magnificent, but I -> iv -> IV sounds... meh? (in this case the target chord is IV, not I but anyway). I know that voice leading can work just fine ascendingly e.g. in a perfect cadence. Am I just unlucky and there are still many progression when it works great in an ascending way? Or is there a reason it won't give you the same result ascendingly? Greeting from Poland, as awlays - so nice to hear you :) EDIT: from 6:00 you started saying that it typically works down, but I cannot get why is that? At the end of the day it's the same exact movement, just in another direction.
It's because the Ab note in F minor is a 'flat' not a 'sharp' (notation actually has a meaning) and 'flat notes move down. See this: ua-cam.com/video/xPH0Z8MzRec/v-deo.html
Find a common-tone and/or a half-step resolution between any chord and you can make it work. Study a little standard counterpoint and this will become even clearer.😉
If you want to see all this chords on one song, check out Stone Temple Pilots ; Wonderful. C mixo Fmajor Fminor borrowed chords are everywhere :) thank you teacher!
I keep learning why I don’t care about jazz music... it works with the chord voicings much deeper than your typical diads in death metal. I think it would make for very interesting chord progressions however, since you are just using small teams of notes and you get so much from making them move against each other. Do these concepts translate differently on piano since you can’t reposition the chords in the same octave? It seems a bunch of this would make more sense if you are looking at note intervals moving much smaller distances than on the guitar (since you have to change strings for your C F Fm G C progression so Much)
Excellent lesson as always! Thanks, TZ. At the end you said to be great at voice leading, but you wrote be good at voice leading, so should we be great or just good at it? /jk. :)
Every lesson I have seen on modal interchange always uses the maj/min option. Is it possible for example to play in C Mixolydian and then borrow from C Phrygian?
Totally. You still have that nice chromatic movement. This time being the F#-F- E. Ending on 3rd of the C major. It will sound different than the video example but a perfectly fine resolution.
Is the term “ modal interchange/ mixture “ meaningful ? Does that simply mean that you can play any chord anywhere?? D is ii- Ionian, II- Lydian, bII- Phrygian etc.... what’s the point?? So, All what matters is a voice leading?Thnx cheers
I have question for masters ;) how to practice without guitar :) during a long break from the guitar? What to practice on paper, in imagination, in theory so as not to forget the position of the notes on the fingerboard etc.
In some ways I think this is more a technique for rationalizing examples of borrowing rather than a practical technique for using borrowed chords to steer a chord sequence away from predictable/trite changes. From the composers point of view (thinking of like Bowie or the pixies or something), the method seems to be as simple as: if you’re stringing together some chords, and you introduce one that feels boring or predictable, simply flip its minor/major quality and see if that solves the problem. If not, find a new root and try the same. Keep going until you like what you’ve got. Do you think that accurately captures their procedure, in many cases?
Mmmh, no. I actually fail to see how your comment has anything to do with what I explain in the video, to be honest. This is a technique to make modal borrowed chords sound good in the progression - I'm not trying to 'rationalize' anything.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Didn’t mean to offend. But I’m interested in how composers who use a lot of modal borrowing actually think when they are writing harmonies. I think in many cases, the composer isn’t thinking “how can I get a modal chord in here”; rather they have a couple of chords they like together and they are trying to extend the sequence. I think in many cases modal borrowing happens according to the method I was describing. One can dismiss this as “trial and error”-fine-but it follows a procedure, and even as you say in your lesson “I don’t think this change works as well, but your ears might...”. Which is of course just an instance of trial and error. I think voice leading by step is certainly key to understanding why many/most examples of modal borrowing work or don’t, but I’m not sure that the composer explicitly sees/hears the possibility of a voice-led line in borrowing outside the scale. Is that really a controversial suggestion?
I'm not offended, neither I want to offend, I'm just trying to answer as directly/clearly as possible. I actually think that composers DO think about modal borrowing and voice leading. They may not call it that way - but your ear natively thinks in voice leading (so much that when people try to 'compose by ear' they are in fact mostly following a 'voice leading' in their head). And modal borrowing has a very definite 'feeling' - so many composers think of that feeling rather than calling it 'modal borrowing'. If nothing else, thinking about modal borrowing and voice leading explicitly while you are composing makes the compositional process go faster, smoother, with better results etc. We study theory because it helps - what would be the point otherwise? I do agree that some people may stumble on a borrowed chord by trial and error (you can stumble on ANYTHING by trial and error) but that's a slow and frustrating way of composing. Would you recommend that people do not study chords/triads and instead try to find chord by trial and error? (i.e. putting their fingers on the fretboard and just hearing what happens) That is possible - but slow and frustrating. You know your chords/triads - you learned them and it was not such a big deal. Why it is such a big deal instead learning how to put these chords together?
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar For some reason you are assuming that my position is a general boneheaded anti-theory, follow-your-intuition position, rather than considering what I’m asking from the point of view of the musicians cited. I’m not advocating anything like that. I’m just thinking about some specific figures in rock/pop who do this a lot, and the specific work they produced. Yes clearly their ear wants the “modal interchange sound” whether they are aware that’s what it is or not-I think it’s perfectly likely they were aware of it. But if they are not looking at the chords they have and explicitly trying to find ways to voice lead to modally borrowed chords, that would certainly be relevant for anyone else who wants to compose music of that kind. The minor/major flipping is actually a pretty efficient way of borrowing chords, which makes it seem like at least a plausible hypothesis.
No, I got what you are saying, I just don't agree. Minor/major flipping is not enough to explain what Bowie, or the Pixies (or Queen, or Elton john) or other rockers are doing. Considering their consistent use of other procedures (like secondary dominants) the hypothesis that best fits the data is that they simply have studied theory and they know what they are doing, not flipping major/minor.
I wonder if it would be useful to include "don't do this" examples of attempted modal Interchanges that don't work (maybe C∆, F∆, F-, D7?) because of the lack of voice-leading
That is a tough harmony in general, but try the following voice leading.I'll write the notes for each voice separately. First voice: B, C, C, C Second voice: G, A, Ab, A Third voice: E, E, F, F# Bass: C, F, F, D The harmony will still probably be weird. Also, the D7 will want to resolve, so maybe end with a G major. If you try it, please tell me how it works, as I'm not at an instrument right now :) Keep in mind too that voices 1 2 and 3 can probably go in any order, as long as the bass note is below all of them. You may choose voice 2 to play the highest note and then voice 3 and then voice 1. Or any order to your liking. (Some may not work as eell and some may be hellish to play on the fretboard) Find one to your liking :)
@@JereToikka yes, that's probably as good as you can get, but even so, going up from Ab to A in voice 2 isn't good voice-leading. I'd imagined the D7 going to G7 to get you back to a C tonic.
yes but ... i'm failing to see why we should even think of the Fm as "borrowed from C minor scale". it feels like what we're really doing is "Fm nicely links F to C through voice leading, so we can ignore the fact that it doesn't belong in the C major scale". i don't feel informed at all by the idea of parallel modes. to me it's more like maintaining a list of unofficial members of the major scale that have useful functions, and more than 90% of the time it's III or iv
(1) If you borrow a chord, to you have to return it when you're done? (2) A-Ab-G is also known as a "chromatic run." (3) But ... but ... parallel motion means ... the "dreaded" PARALLEL FIFTHS! (cue Cm-maj7 chord) (4) Do ALL of your chord techniques involve smooth voice leading? It seems like you keep coming back to this in many of your videos.
Parallel borrowing You can borrow chords from different mode as long as, the mode is the same tonic and as long as (MUST) the "melody fall" in the chord that you're borrowing.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar This one is quite good, it was more a general comment about others I've encountered. I would maybe change it to "La pièce manquante à l'emprunt modal [pourquoi vous n'arrivez pas à le faire sonner]"
![This Is Why MODES Are So Confusing To Guitar Players [Music Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8z_MwotLh1M/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish I had all these information 40 years ago...
Thanks a lot master!
Same here ✅
Look I love your knowledge of music, but what I *really* love is your approach to music. "It's just two sounds. As long as you know them and know how to produce them you're fine. It's not up to me to tell you what to like.". That is the true power of mastering the theory. Hats off to you, Tommaso, and thank you for all your work. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very good explanation ... you can get away with anything if you can voice lead effectively. Chopin Prelude in Em comes to my mind about these falling melodic lines inside the chords.
A few thoughts:
1.) Thank you so much... for using terms like voice-leading and encouraging people to -- gasp -- pick up a pencil and -- bigger gasp -- write down ideas on paper.
2.) Didn't I hear tell that that ol' flash-in-the-pan, one-hit-wonder Beethoven used to do that?
3.) Tchaikovsky's Dance of the Reed Flutes is a great example of mode shift/modal borrowing. It incorporates the ii half-diminished 7th chord in a very, very obvious-to-the-ear way. You can see/hear it in the 6th measure of the following:
ua-cam.com/video/7SQFq59ca2E/v-deo.html
Thanks for a fantastic explanation of voice leading. That was really instructive and easy to understand (as usual). Well done!
Thanks coach. Good one!
Wow! You just solved a musical puzzle I've been working on your years, in ten minutes! Thank you!!!!
Minute 5:25 exactly when my mind blows up 😄 great video. Thanks for explaining it all.
Very nice! I've tried it with C Dm D° G C and Em Eb+ G7 C and it sounds good. Thank you, Tommaso!
WOW! Thanks a lot! I've just tried it and immediately realized simplicity and richness of this idea!
So for example in C major right away I've come up with the following:
Gm -> Dm -> C -> G -> repeat
Or
Am -> Ebmaj7 -> Dm,
and so on and so forth. And I must say these two are completely new to me.
Amazing as usual!
Thanks!
Great lesson as always ...this is my favorite technique when I write music ..i actually started doing this without knowing what i was doing... but recently i understood what i was doing and now it's one of my favorite techniques in songwriting
This is really great information!!! I'm writing my first song right now and I'm having fun doing it.
A lot of your videos have been amazing as a refresher course for concepts i learned in college but half remembered
You have a strange way of reading my mind. I was just thinking about why that D chord in "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" works so well. It's the G -> F# -> F in the Am/G, D/F/#, F. Thank you.
The Beatles used this trick a lot. "Michelle", "Hello Goodbye", "It Won't Be Long". In "Savoy Truffle", "Hey Bulldog", "Glass Onion" the run rises.
Nice explanation of voice leading - great combination of theory and guitar.
Very good info! Love it!
Excellent videos as always. Thanks!
(Just wanted to say, I believe the question in last week's video "Are you an engineer?" is a Mattias Kranz reference)
Mattias Kranz the guitarist, or Mattias Kranz the computer scientist? ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Does putting guitar strings on a piano and playing it count as a guitarist? 😂
Very cool! Thanks
Scalloped strat? If so: Nice!😁🔥⚡🔥
Also: really useful lesson. Thank you for the "borrowed knowledge" 😆😆
Very interesting.
I stared doing some study over this matter - choosing some x -> I chord movements (e.g. IV -> I or iv -> I) and trying to fit some borrowed chords / secondary dominants in between. What confuses me is this: why the heck does it work only if the voice is lead descendingly but not other way around? Why IV -> iv -> I sound magnificent, but I -> iv -> IV sounds... meh? (in this case the target chord is IV, not I but anyway). I know that voice leading can work just fine ascendingly e.g. in a perfect cadence. Am I just unlucky and there are still many progression when it works great in an ascending way? Or is there a reason it won't give you the same result ascendingly? Greeting from Poland, as awlays - so nice to hear you :) EDIT: from 6:00 you started saying that it typically works down, but I cannot get why is that? At the end of the day it's the same exact movement, just in another direction.
It's because the Ab note in F minor is a 'flat' not a 'sharp' (notation actually has a meaning) and 'flat notes move down. See this: ua-cam.com/video/xPH0Z8MzRec/v-deo.html
Find a common-tone and/or a half-step resolution between any chord and you can make it work. Study a little standard counterpoint and this will become even clearer.😉
how does counterpoint influence voice leading??
@@lighterwaves5659 , ‘counterpoint’ in essence is the study of voice-leading.👍🏼
@@Bubba-zu6yr lol what? u said the common tone and half step resolution...i c that...but how does counterpoint influence that?
@@lighterwaves5659, not sure what you find so humorous but counterpoint develops the awareness of the vertical in, and potential motion of harmony.
@@Bubba-zu6yr lol wat?? forget it thought u had specific info...
If you want to see all this chords on one song, check out Stone Temple Pilots ; Wonderful. C mixo Fmajor Fminor borrowed chords are everywhere :) thank you teacher!
I keep learning why I don’t care about jazz music... it works with the chord voicings much deeper than your typical diads in death metal. I think it would make for very interesting chord progressions however, since you are just using small teams of notes and you get so much from making them move against each other.
Do these concepts translate differently on piano since you can’t reposition the chords in the same octave? It seems a bunch of this would make more sense if you are looking at note intervals moving much smaller distances than on the guitar (since you have to change strings for your C F Fm G C progression so
Much)
Excellent lesson as always! Thanks, TZ.
At the end you said to be great at voice leading, but you wrote be good at voice leading, so should we be great or just good at it?
/jk. :)
Whenever given the choice... choose greatness :)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Thanks for your wisdom, master.
Every lesson I have seen on modal interchange always uses the maj/min option. Is it possible for example to play in C Mixolydian and then borrow from C Phrygian?
Yes
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Thank you, I really need to dig into this more. Great teacher!
Dang thanks man
Teacher, can we say |\/m chord can have a dominant function? Fm is actually similar a dominant chord that have Ab note?
Are you italian in Milan? You sound 100% like my boss 🤣 great videos!
Thanks again! What about using the 5th or the 7th for voice leading?
I used that trick some times and I wasn't even thinking to borrowed chords.
Is this also the same technique for going from C-minor -> C-dorian deploying the Gmaj7 Dm7 (F#->F) ?
Totally. You still have that nice chromatic movement. This time being the F#-F- E. Ending on 3rd of the C major. It will sound different than the video example but a perfectly fine resolution.
Is the term “ modal interchange/ mixture “ meaningful ? Does that simply mean that you can play any chord anywhere?? D is ii- Ionian, II- Lydian, bII- Phrygian etc.... what’s the point?? So, All what matters is a voice leading?Thnx cheers
In order: yes, no, to make music, there's more to it than that but voice leading is important.
I have question for masters ;) how to practice without guitar :)
during a long break from the guitar?
What to practice on paper, in imagination, in theory
so as not to forget the position of the notes on the fingerboard etc.
Temporary lack of hands issue ;D
Yes.. very obvious! Uggghhh... finally! Whew! Wut a long strange trip!
In some ways I think this is more a technique for rationalizing examples of borrowing rather than a practical technique for using borrowed chords to steer a chord sequence away from predictable/trite changes. From the composers point of view (thinking of like Bowie or the pixies or something), the method seems to be as simple as: if you’re stringing together some chords, and you introduce one that feels boring or predictable, simply flip its minor/major quality and see if that solves the problem. If not, find a new root and try the same. Keep going until you like what you’ve got. Do you think that accurately captures their procedure, in many cases?
Mmmh, no. I actually fail to see how your comment has anything to do with what I explain in the video, to be honest. This is a technique to make modal borrowed chords sound good in the progression - I'm not trying to 'rationalize' anything.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Didn’t mean to offend. But I’m interested in how composers who use a lot of modal borrowing actually think when they are writing harmonies. I think in many cases, the composer isn’t thinking “how can I get a modal chord in here”; rather they have a couple of chords they like together and they are trying to extend the sequence. I think in many cases modal borrowing happens according to the method I was describing. One can dismiss this as “trial and error”-fine-but it follows a procedure, and even as you say in your lesson “I don’t think this change works as well, but your ears might...”. Which is of course just an instance of trial and error. I think voice leading by step is certainly key to understanding why many/most examples of modal borrowing work or don’t, but I’m not sure that the composer explicitly sees/hears the possibility of a voice-led line in borrowing outside the scale. Is that really a controversial suggestion?
I'm not offended, neither I want to offend, I'm just trying to answer as directly/clearly as possible. I actually think that composers DO think about modal borrowing and voice leading. They may not call it that way - but your ear natively thinks in voice leading (so much that when people try to 'compose by ear' they are in fact mostly following a 'voice leading' in their head). And modal borrowing has a very definite 'feeling' - so many composers think of that feeling rather than calling it 'modal borrowing'. If nothing else, thinking about modal borrowing and voice leading explicitly while you are composing makes the compositional process go faster, smoother, with better results etc. We study theory because it helps - what would be the point otherwise? I do agree that some people may stumble on a borrowed chord by trial and error (you can stumble on ANYTHING by trial and error) but that's a slow and frustrating way of composing. Would you recommend that people do not study chords/triads and instead try to find chord by trial and error? (i.e. putting their fingers on the fretboard and just hearing what happens) That is possible - but slow and frustrating. You know your chords/triads - you learned them and it was not such a big deal. Why it is such a big deal instead learning how to put these chords together?
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar For some reason you are assuming that my position is a general boneheaded anti-theory, follow-your-intuition position, rather than considering what I’m asking from the point of view of the musicians cited. I’m not advocating anything like that. I’m just thinking about some specific figures in rock/pop who do this a lot, and the specific work they produced. Yes clearly their ear wants the “modal interchange sound” whether they are aware that’s what it is or not-I think it’s perfectly likely they were aware of it. But if they are not looking at the chords they have and explicitly trying to find ways to voice lead to modally borrowed chords, that would certainly be relevant for anyone else who wants to compose music of that kind. The minor/major flipping is actually a pretty efficient way of borrowing chords, which makes it seem like at least a plausible hypothesis.
No, I got what you are saying, I just don't agree. Minor/major flipping is not enough to explain what Bowie, or the Pixies (or Queen, or Elton john) or other rockers are doing. Considering their consistent use of other procedures (like secondary dominants) the hypothesis that best fits the data is that they simply have studied theory and they know what they are doing, not flipping major/minor.
Is modal borrowing involved in all chromatic melodies?
No
I wonder if it would be useful to include "don't do this" examples of attempted modal Interchanges that don't work (maybe C∆, F∆, F-, D7?) because of the lack of voice-leading
That is a tough harmony in general, but try the following voice leading.I'll write the notes for each voice separately.
First voice: B, C, C, C
Second voice: G, A, Ab, A
Third voice: E, E, F, F#
Bass: C, F, F, D
The harmony will still probably be weird. Also, the D7 will want to resolve, so maybe end with a G major.
If you try it, please tell me how it works, as I'm not at an instrument right now :)
Keep in mind too that voices 1 2 and 3 can probably go in any order, as long as the bass note is below all of them. You may choose voice 2 to play the highest note and then voice 3 and then voice 1. Or any order to your liking. (Some may not work as eell and some may be hellish to play on the fretboard) Find one to your liking :)
@@JereToikka yes, that's probably as good as you can get, but even so, going up from Ab to A in voice 2 isn't good voice-leading.
I'd imagined the D7 going to G7 to get you back to a C tonic.
@@charlesgaskell5899 Just tested it and to my ear the Ab to A sounds fine. That said, personal tastes are personal tastes, so you might dislike it :)
Music Theory does not dictate music; Music dictates Music Theory :)
Neither: ua-cam.com/video/DZwmxnSUQFo/v-deo.html
yes but ... i'm failing to see why we should even think of the Fm as "borrowed from C minor scale". it feels like what we're really doing is "Fm nicely links F to C through voice leading, so we can ignore the fact that it doesn't belong in the C major scale". i don't feel informed at all by the idea of parallel modes. to me it's more like maintaining a list of unofficial members of the major scale that have useful functions, and more than 90% of the time it's III or iv
(1) If you borrow a chord, to you have to return it when you're done?
(2) A-Ab-G is also known as a "chromatic run."
(3) But ... but ... parallel motion means ... the "dreaded" PARALLEL FIFTHS! (cue Cm-maj7 chord)
(4) Do ALL of your chord techniques involve smooth voice leading? It seems like you keep coming back to this in many of your videos.
UA-cam: "TOMMASO, STOP PROJECTING HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS AND VOLITION ONTO SOUND FREQUENCIES!!!" 🤣😂
✅ Great lesson, as always
IT'S A METAPHOR! :) We Physicists talk all the time of particles that "want" to do this and that. It's easier ;-)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar 😁 Yes...unfortunately, symbolic thought is just wasted on some.
Idk if your familiar with Mexican chords aka acordes charros. I want to mix blues with acordes charros
Not familiar, but I'm curious. Can you explain me what they are or give me a reference?
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar what's your email or social media
tommaso@musictheoryforguitar.com
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar ok
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar check out @Jorge Aguilera
Parallel borrowing
You can borrow chords from different mode as long as, the mode is the same tonic and as long as (MUST) the "melody fall" in the chord that you're borrowing.
Your video titles are translated in french... and usually it makes no sens x)
What would be a good translation for this one? (So I can override the auto translation)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar This one is quite good, it was more a general comment about others I've encountered. I would maybe change it to "La pièce manquante à l'emprunt modal [pourquoi vous n'arrivez pas à le faire sonner]"