Mechanic answer: I would much rather the 9 bolts (ok maybe 4 if they could get away with it) than snap clips that I'd risk breaking while getting to the filters. Clips see great for things that don't have to come apart and back together more than once
Exactly what I was going to comment on; if you ever tried to remove any plastic clips off of anything and for bonus fun do it at low temperature, they'll break - it's a matter of time. After that it's great fun putting that back together. They're trying to make a car that can last 1M miles not 150K like most cars do.
@@tommy12345abc Are there clip designs where the clip is easily replaced if it does break? I'm thinking something like raised square openings, one on each piece, and a separate piece that slips through locking the two pieces together. Make the connector weaker than than the connection points so if something breaks it's the easy/cheap to replace part.
@@DummyLooks Why? It takes longer to extract and return a bolt than a clip. If you have an "oops" then you have to spend time trying to retrieve the bolt from wherever it ended up or replace it. With a much cheaper clip you can just stick in a new clip.
Those fasteners really aren't meant to come out anyway. He removed the base of the HVAC case to show inside with condensers. Filters are normally accessed from side of case.
retrofitter Yes. If we watch a video on how to replace the Model 3 filters, we see a small removable panel that is removed to access them. I can’t imagine the whole side of the plenum has to be removed, like Sandy showed, to get at them in the Y. We never got a look at that end of the large panel he removed to see if there is a small access panel there.
@@markplott4820 while they can be replaced by an owner, it's not nearly as convenient as every other car I've done it in. You need to remove a large trim panel, lift up some carpet, reach up into a difficult to see area to remove a T20 bolt to open the door to the filters. I suspect they expected this to be done by Tesla service.
@@SodaPopin5ki It's easier than it was on my Mazda, but ya I wouldn't say its convenient. Took about 30 minutes. The reason for the split is you insert one, push it down and then insert the second. The opening access to insert is only the size of one filter.
Sandy, a public tear-down on UA-cam is the start of an entirely new career for Munro&Associates. We just love this... it's like a course for mechanical/electrical engineers/designers. I bet this channel will go over a million views and maybe supporters!
Those filters with the yellow back look like Mann FreciousPlus filters. The yellow side is an antibacterial/fungal coating. 2 filters are usually used when access is limited so you can get the filter through a smaller hole. My Citroen has similar, but with 2 smaller filters. EDIT: They are also marked made in Germany, so probably Mann FP OEM filters.
Thank you Sandy for explaining things so a lay person like myself can understand. I feel like Forrest Gump and Sandy is “Momma” explaining things so even I can understand how they work.
Looks like the bolts were backups in case clip failed but definitely could have accomplished same with fewer bolts. The two filters is odd unless they cross over to another Tesla model which would mean common part numbers too. As always, getting smarter by the day, thanks Shop Teacher Sandy!
The HVAC air filter is installed and removed from the passenger footwell. Maybe if the filter was a single, long piece, you would not be able to fit it into the footwell before sliding it into its location inside the HVAC unit. Maybe they split it into two smaller pieces that are easier to fit through the passenger footwell.
The slots will allow a bit more heat release because they increase surface area. But the overall importance for heat transfer is likely tiny. The real value, I would guess, is giving expanding metal someplace to go without pushing against fasteners. Something like heat expansion strips in bridges.
@@bobwallace9753 that's not what he means, he means that it allows for more temperature difference within the part and a reduced amount of heat leaking to colder sections (to improve efficiency)
Thanks Sandy - another fun and educational piece - next time, can you show the EIGHT tubes connecting the octovalve, because, well it's and octo kinda thing
love watching your Y series! I like how you explain little details that most of us wouldn't even think about. May I suggest a pen laser pointer and flashlight for the next little item you're talking about? Thanks!
model x's even fancier sunvisors have magnets too, but I wish they just had made some sort of curtain that came off the hard ceiling(horizontal pillar?) that could cover the windshield top to bottom, like the cybertruck bed cover which looks amazing going in & out
Hi Munro, @6:00 did you mean one condenser (for cabin heating by the heat pump in heating mode) and an evaporator (for cabin cooling by HP in AC mode)? And not 2 condensers? Great video as usual, thanks
Great catch, Abhid! We actually discussed that prior to posting the video, but we were running short on editing time. Yes, that is exactly what we mean - 1 condenser, 1 evaporator. Thank you for clarifying and thanks for tuning in!
@@MunroLiveIsn't it more more likely to be 1 evaporator with refrigerant, and one heater core with coolant fed by one of the heat exchangers? That way you could run the heat pump all the time while also taking advantage of auxiliary heating in those northern states where weather makes it pointless to live in.
@@derpymcderpington the condenser in the HVAC box is used in lieu of a coolant based heater core. This condenser is needed for this AC compressor to run in Heat pump mode. The HVAC fan blows over the condenser which gets the hot refrigerant in from the Heat Pump in heating mode, and the air stream is directed to the cabin for heating. In AC mode, cold refrigerant flows via Evaporator and the same blower gets the cooling done. The traditional front end air to refrigerant AC condenser is replaced by a coolant to refrigerant (LCC - liquid cooled condenser). The LCC can be seen right next to the Heat pump
5:42 they don’t use snap fits everywhere because it’s plastic and they age and will break over the years when you bend them. That’s why they use screws
Thx for this great in depth Videos. The filters look like mann filter frecious plus Filters. Quite expensive. Additionaly to active coal , they are Filterung particulate Matter, allergens and mould. The yellow colour ist distinctive. (P.s. Keyboard wont Change from ger to en, sorry for the mess, and stay save )
I have to disagree with your clip vs screw analysis. Yes it is faster to manufacture with clips (which is all most companies seem to care about anymore), but 10+ years down the road when the plastic becomes somewhat brittle, you can still easily unscrew parts to disassemble and fix an item. I don't mind christmas tree clips such as those used on trim, since they can easily be replaced, but something like those molded clips on the HVAC unit will snap off and become useless. Then you have to zip-tie or glue it back together, not optimal.
I was thinking of the same thing. I've had terrible luck keeping those tabs from breaking, but I guess when a car is 10 years old you probably don't care as much about one or two broken tabs that you won't ever see. If the broken tabs cause noise, just throw some tape on it or something at that point.
All they have to do is to make clips that can withstand any scenario just like the screws, and they can actually do, if they go back to the drawing board.
Perhaps use a push through clip that's easy to compress and extract. Turn the side to be compressed toward the repair person so that it's easy to squeeze with pliers and push back. Make the easily replaced clip 'sacrificial' to protect the much more expensive parts.
some background , in the recent 3rd row tesla pod elon said their are using custom alloys for aluminium castings . So its not out of question for them to invest some time in getting better plastics , maybe they decided that the ROI is not that great right now but if they hit higher volumes this would become a priority and they could probably still introduce it as a running change. also snap fits come in all shapes and sizes they can be engineered for durability , only overhead is design you would have to invest some more time in getting the correct fit for a given Area. my point in conclusion . the idea is not without merit , it cant be done because ROI is less in low volume. there is a very real chance they would make a running change in the future.
@@davidbeppler3032 ..said the service tech .. "I lost 2 screws, and 4 should be enough...." .... then 2 years later there is a recall for improperly serviced vehicles, because some service dude thought he knew better.
@@davidbeppler3032 Funny, that is not how it works, one would not mount a wheel using self tapping plastic screws, LOL, seriously dude, your analogy sucked.
Yes I hate them on aged cars, no mater how gentle and limit the bend the plastic has lost its properties and snap off. This is all wonderful for the initial first few years.
Great question! It's true that snap fits, especially ones with thinner molded cross sections, can become less effective or weakened if stressed too many times, but they can definitely be designed to withstand serviceability. Also, replacing air filters is not a task that's performed very frequently, so it likely wouldn't be at high risk for breakage due to overuse. Thanks for tuning in!
Svan9 In addition, they would be hard to reach and unsnap when changing the air filters buried under the dash. Did you notice how hard it looked to deal with the existing snap fits on the other assembly? Technicians use electric screw drivers most of the time nowadays so screws are easy to remove and replace once they learn the procedure.
I despise plastic parts that have to be deformed to assemble or disassemble via tabs or the like. For something that requires occasional maintenance access (e.g. to change those filters), I'll take screws any day.
As one of the few user-replaceable parts, this is something that Joe Average will also hold in his hands even in regular intervals, not just Sandy Munro. :-) Adding a few cents there may pay off in terms of perceived quality. :-) While in other parts, the HVAC box was quick-repaired with a 3D printed part to overcome quality issues. :-) But few customers will ever see this, if Sandy would not investigate each detail. :-)
Model Y cabin air filters look identical to Model 3 cabin air filters. I just replaced the ones in my Model 3 a few days ago with ones from Evannex. They look the same except for the Tesla “T” logo printed on the side. Install wasn’t terrible but could have been better. Using a T20 bit driver while contorting over the rocker panel with your head in the footwell isn’t fun. Also, there’s a weird little speaker on the panel under the glovebox that I couldn’t undo. What’s that for?
Looks like Elon likes German engineering and quality... Let's look forward to the Giga-Factory Berlin get into full swing. I guess, that he will get some great new engineering ideas from those Teutonic/Prussian guys. I know he will love it, as much as young German engineers being encouraged to think outside the box! I hope to live long enough to have this confirmed in time!
I love that Sandy, despite being the star of the show/company, refuses to take credit for anything he didn't specifically do. That's how you lead a team. And 'because he couldn't fit 11' best line of the week for youtube.
I think you should start a new series devoted to manufacturing processes, and products that use them. I would be very interested in that. Also, I think you should start a patreon account, and ship out a random car part to contributors each week. That would be a lot of fun. edit: wow I should have watched to the end of the video before commenting, it looks like you were way ahead of me on the patreon idea.
Sandy it’s interesting that you mention the 9 screws used on the HVAC. I recently change my air filters on my Model 3. To remove the access cover required the use of a T-10 screwdriver. I was wondering why didn’t they just use a clip to hold the cover in place like on my Nissan Leaf. The air filter replacement is DYI and would have been much easier to access without having to use a tool and risk loosing the screw.
I agree, my other car is a Nissan Murano and the cabin filter cover uses a clip too. However, with the Nissan, I have to contort my body much more than the Model 3 to replace the filter.
Another great, informative video! Thanks, Sandy! When you get a minute or two, could you please point out where on the Octovalve piece the octopus is, for context? Thanks!
If you have one long filter it is hard to get out because you have to bend it . Chevy also haves two filters because of that reason. The later model haves one filter but you can bend it one way BUT it is more expensive . My 2008 Chevy Avananche standard haves no cabin filter at all.
flippynl Yes, you are right. The printing was done at a low resolution to save time. They aren’t using the kind of hobby printers we see on UA-cam. This is FDM printing where a thermoplastic filament is fed through a hot nozzle that melts it. No laser is involved as Sandy stated. That’s SLS, selective laser sintering in which powdered plastic (or metal) is melted by a laser. You can tell the difference just by looking at them.
Yep definitely just a few minutes print speed is to high and the viscosity is to high for that speed ... it’s looks like it’s not really stable More quick and dirty really sadl :(
The dual heat exchanger cores, I'll all but guarantee one is a condenser and the other an evaporator. This allows dehumidification in defrost mode on a single air path. I'd love to take the cooling unit apart. While I admire their intent (I think), there is much I would have done differently (I think). I'm more convinced this will be a maintenance nightmare, but didn't have to be.
Our understanding is consistent with yours at this point, Bill - one condenser and one evaporator. Little bit of a mis-speak on our part. Thanks for tuning in and keeping us on our toes! Always appreciate your insight.
Sir, would you mind explaining some of your marking techniques? I suspect the red stickers denotes that that area was measured or "checked-off" etc, but what about all of the paint pen markings etc?
@@stephen-boddy Thanks for the backup! ;) Some of the paint markings we apply to highlight certain features, but it is also very typical for automotive OEMs and suppliers to use paint pens as part of their quality checking procedures on non-visible parts. For example, an operator might manually trace a weld with a paint pen to confirm that he has visually inspected it and confirmed that it's present. The stickers are for a commonality assessment compared to the Model 3 as Stephen mentioned. Thanks for tuning in!
@@carholic-sz3qv Construction techniques such as high quality consistent welds, properly shielded wiring, use of simplified castings in aluminum and plastic, use of many existing model 3 parts, and no serious production bottle necks. No car is perfect, but for a first run vehicle this thing is totally impressive.
@@richardalexander5758 nope this thing is not impressive because first those technologies arent that old, and also many manufacturers have been using those techniques, audi started using 100% aluminium body for almost 2 decades, even cast metal parts, and very high end cars or sport cars have special fabrications processes
The model 3 is notorious for having worse than usual odor from a/c condensation, other than having what appears to be bacteriostatic filter media, does the Y show any design difference that might alleviate that (my car stinks)?
Actually looking at it more carefully, that piece was printed on supports, so the more precise face is touching the original part. What we see is the bottom of the print, where there is very little hope for a good first layer.
Haha, most garbage 3D print I’ve ever seen haha. I Guess it gets the job done, lol, but second that TSLA needs some 3D print expertise. (Elon, Call me 😘)
Thanks Sandy gr8. High tech Octo. Is it black steel banding (or SS?), tape and cardboard around the heat exchanger? Possibly it is packaging and should be removed after delivery since it looks so out of place? Sure looks like a bandage like the 3d printing. You see wires touching the heat exchanger also, bottom left, is that because it has been removed or is it the same thing in place? Tesla could be taping the side of a standard filter so you can get the bottom one out :0). 9 Plastic screws to change your mini filters! I may write 9 screws on the shed wall. Nothing is perfect but I do own good enough. Hope this Y will become one of those.
Those slots look very wide to have been done with a wire EDM, unless they went dwon both sides of the slot to get that width. Are you sure it wasn't done with abrasive water jet? That would be a couple orders of magnitude faster.
Could be, thank you for your suggestion, Dale. We'll have to get it fully disassembled and analyzed to confirm, but that will be an important consideration, as cycle time and manufacturing methods are elements that drive our costing reports. Thanks for tuning in!
So cool to see the 3D printed patch! very good idea, but could you test to see if it's PLA or ABS? PLA is not really suitable in a car where summer heat will make it soft and loose its shape. (experience: having a 3D printer and often using it to fix small thing in my house and car)
Why don't they use more plastic instead of fasteners? Sure, build it fast and cheap to service so it breaks and makes it harder and expensive to swap the whole shell...
you need to use screws to make a good seal. Can't achieve that with snap fits. From quality point of view screws are better because can be checked by camera system + torque shut-off tool. Snap fits are rather hard to detect if closed correctly. There is also rigidity of whole unit. You don't want it to squeak on bumpy roads - screws win here again. There is compromise to be made everywhere and I'm sure guys at Tesla know what they doing (minus 3d printed part, but hey, its early car, so good save! Quality of that print could be better, but speed was main objective, so you need to compromise when you need hundreds of them). Octovalve looks cool and has some proper engineering solutions. It is like adult videos for engineers. Wonder how easy it is to bleed that in service!
Can you check the glass transition temperature of that 3D printed adaption? Presumably they’re using something more sophisticated than us home gamers otherwise it’d probably deform or degrade in an automotive environment
If you look closely, the ENTIRE assembly was 3D printed!!! This is wild to see on an early production car, and I would bet $$$ this disappears as production progresses (it's likely gone already, since we're into the thousands for Model Y). You can see faint traces of 3D print lines along faces and edges. Tesla likely 3D printed with ABS plastic and then smoothed everything using Acetone vapor. This is a common technique in the 3D printing community. We do NOT see this on the Model 3, which has an almost identical HVAC assembly. They used traditional injection-molded ABS. This is evidenced by date code insert and other defects (or artifacts, rather) of injection molding.
I was hoping that you were going to talk about why Tesla model 3 and Y starts to smell like vinegar in 2-3 months, and we need to replace filter and clean the system all the time
I wonder if that sun visor will direct fit into a model 3? I like that magnetic connector! They look to be the same size or perhaps it exactly the same visor but the only difference is the magnetic clip part that snaps into the headliner. That would be cool to be able to switch that out. Thanks!
Oops. I was thinking of Ep21, but he doesn't extend them out, just demonstrates the magnet. I'm sure I've watch someone demonstrating the rod sliding out somewhere on YT.
If it's anything like the 3 then yes, the 3's visors extend along the rod. Only difference I've seen so far is the magnet on the Y vs the hook on the 3.
@@calaverx11 It is not a unique design to the 3 or any other Tesla. I've seen that on many car brands. I just thought it worth Sandy noting. It is such a simple design improvement but it does so much for driving comfort.
4:45 screws vs snap fits ... snap fits are not good for carry a load (is there a compression seal there?) .. and snap fits can be a frustrating puzzle for service people, and very hard to access for service, especially if you have a 1/2 dozen or more that all need to be released at once.. that can be a service nightmare, where screws are much easier and very intuitive to the tech. The other thing that could be going on here, is that 2 different designers developed those parts, once with screws and one with lots of snaps, LOL.
So with all these snap fits, I see a car that can't be rebuilt in 15+ years. This is why I like screws, easy to find, relativly easy to repair the internal threads. Rebuilding my 30+ yr old E30 S54, taking the HVAC appart it was so very brittle and the snap fit parts fall apart in the hands. However I do think plastics are most likely better than 30_ years ago... Earlier he stated he sees bolts fail, and internal to a car I say no, no they really don't. External with rust? Yes but then the heating/cooling for these snap fits means nothing will ever be tight again easily.
8:42 so it's the same story that happened to the wiring in some of the past videos - they did a quick fix so not to stop production... Elon should be happy to continue production :)
I have seen other UA-cam videos showing that those filters are stock filters already being manufactured. They are just custom imprinted for Tesla. The identical aftermarket parts cost less than the Tesla brand. Overall, the fact that they are being mass produced lowers the price Tesla has to pay. It would make no sense for Tesla to make their own filters at this point in time from a cost standpoint.
stop talking the nonsense here, the filters are made in germany because they have the expertise of it, plus mercedes, bmw, audi, bosch and many other german manufacturers already uses those same type of very eficient and good filters , the tesla ones arent special, there are even better ones on the market
Super bottle describes an assembly - coolant bottle, 5 way valve, 2 pumps ( 1 for std range), sensor. Octovalve is just the valve that replaces 5 way valve. Octavalve is part of the super manifold assembly like 5 way is part of super bottle.
1:41 did anyone notice the made in Mexico sticker? this goes against what Elon recently said on Twitter that all of the model Y is from America source components
Is that unit ontop of octovale a battery or like mini power producer like on electric bysicle to keep it running when needed even incase main battery or some electrical any way is it self sastaining unit for that and other critical components ?
1:51 Here is a link to a video showing an aluminum friction welding operation. ua-cam.com/video/aNbQH8XBgxQ/v-deo.html
nice addition to the vid, thx
Thank you. Again I learned something new from your channel. Keep up your excellent work and stay healthy.
Extremely interesting. Thanks.
Mechanic answer: I would much rather the 9 bolts (ok maybe 4 if they could get away with it) than snap clips that I'd risk breaking while getting to the filters. Clips see great for things that don't have to come apart and back together more than once
Exactly what I was going to comment on; if you ever tried to remove any plastic clips off of anything and for bonus fun do it at low temperature, they'll break - it's a matter of time. After that it's great fun putting that back together. They're trying to make a car that can last 1M miles not 150K like most cars do.
@@tommy12345abc Are there clip designs where the clip is easily replaced if it does break? I'm thinking something like raised square openings, one on each piece, and a separate piece that slips through locking the two pieces together. Make the connector weaker than than the connection points so if something breaks it's the easy/cheap to replace part.
@@bobwallace9753 At that point you'll be better off with a normal bolt.
@@DummyLooks Why? It takes longer to extract and return a bolt than a clip. If you have an "oops" then you have to spend time trying to retrieve the bolt from wherever it ended up or replace it. With a much cheaper clip you can just stick in a new clip.
Those fasteners really aren't meant to come out anyway. He removed the base of the HVAC case to show inside with condensers. Filters are normally accessed from side of case.
This series is so addictive.. Loving it
The filters are sized so that they can be installed while the HVAC box is within the car.
Its just like the Model 3 are they not ?
Designed to be Replaced by the user.
retrofitter It’s the other way around. The Tesla parts were designed to use existing filters.
retrofitter Yes. If we watch a video on how to replace the Model 3 filters, we see a small removable panel that is removed to access them. I can’t imagine the whole side of the plenum has to be removed, like Sandy showed, to get at them in the Y. We never got a look at that end of the large panel he removed to see if there is a small access panel there.
@@markplott4820 while they can be replaced by an owner, it's not nearly as convenient as every other car I've done it in. You need to remove a large trim panel, lift up some carpet, reach up into a difficult to see area to remove a T20 bolt to open the door to the filters. I suspect they expected this to be done by Tesla service.
@@SodaPopin5ki It's easier than it was on my Mazda, but ya I wouldn't say its convenient. Took about 30 minutes. The reason for the split is you insert one, push it down and then insert the second. The opening access to insert is only the size of one filter.
I hope you are slowly becoming more comfortable becoming a celebrity! your sacrifice is making a lot of people happy. thank you!
Sandy, a public tear-down on UA-cam is the start of an entirely new career for Munro&Associates. We just love this... it's like a course for mechanical/electrical engineers/designers. I bet this channel will go over a million views and maybe supporters!
Sandy: Next time there will be different people in these videos
Also Sandy: welcome back (alone)
I'm sure the other people will be excellent -- but I am always glad when it's Sandy again.
I'm never upset to see Sandy.
You don't see other people? WILSON!!!!!! (Little faces drawn on Tesla Parts)
FamilyFirstJ He always uses a camera man. He’s probably referring to future videos because he has assigned others to analyze some subassemblies.
Those filters with the yellow back look like Mann FreciousPlus filters. The yellow side is an antibacterial/fungal coating. 2 filters are usually used when access is limited so you can get the filter through a smaller hole. My Citroen has similar, but with 2 smaller filters. EDIT: They are also marked made in Germany, so probably Mann FP OEM filters.
"Why did the engineer use 9 screws?... Probably because he couldn't use 11". Sandy casting some shade!
I laughed out loud when I heard him say that!
Chris Mast - “An engineer would walk over a thousand beautiful virgins in order to screw a mechanic.”
Thank you Sandy for explaining things so a lay person like myself can understand. I feel like Forrest Gump and Sandy is “Momma” explaining things so even I can understand how they work.
Munro is like the best teacher that you never had.
I've been dreaming about the octovalve.
Solving The Money Problem sweet dream eh :)
Valve or mom?
Me too until i saw a japanese porn video
Great work Sandy. I find the teardown extremely interesting and I appreciate your unbiased comments.
Sandy, 12,800 views in 3 hours?!?! You are absolutely killing it! Get some sponsors!
Looks like the bolts were backups in case clip failed but definitely could have accomplished same with fewer bolts.
The two filters is odd unless they cross over to another Tesla model which would mean common part numbers too.
As always, getting smarter by the day, thanks Shop Teacher Sandy!
Thank you to Munro and taem for making this teardown freely available to the public. Cannot wait until the day where we see the CyberTruck dissected!!
The HVAC air filter is installed and removed from the passenger footwell. Maybe if the filter was a single, long piece, you would not be able to fit it into the footwell before sliding it into its location inside the HVAC unit. Maybe they split it into two smaller pieces that are easier to fit through the passenger footwell.
Serviceability depends on access space. It sucks to snap a plastic tab when servicing cabin filters. I like screws but prefer bolts for cabin filters.
Could those slots in the casting on the Octovalve not also serve to thermally isolate different sections of the piece ?
That is an interesting and plausible thought, could be! Thanks for sharing and thanks for tuning in!
And I was thinking about crash break/weak point.
But I’m most likely wrong on that.
The slots will allow a bit more heat release because they increase surface area. But the overall importance for heat transfer is likely tiny. The real value, I would guess, is giving expanding metal someplace to go without pushing against fasteners. Something like heat expansion strips in bridges.
@@bobwallace9753 that's not what he means, he means that it allows for more temperature difference within the part and a reduced amount of heat leaking to colder sections (to improve efficiency)
@@thomgt4 That could happen if only part of the piece was being heated.
This is so fun! This and Project Farm are my new pals! Keep the mask on, Sandy!
Thanks Sandy - another fun and educational piece - next time, can you show the EIGHT tubes connecting the octovalve, because, well it's and octo kinda thing
love watching your Y series! I like how you explain little details that most of us wouldn't even think about. May I suggest a pen laser pointer and flashlight for the next little item you're talking about? Thanks!
model x's even fancier sunvisors have magnets too, but I wish they just had made some sort of curtain that came off the hard ceiling(horizontal pillar?) that could cover the windshield top to bottom, like the cybertruck bed cover which looks amazing going in & out
Hi Munro, @6:00 did you mean one condenser (for cabin heating by the heat pump in heating mode) and an evaporator (for cabin cooling by HP in AC mode)? And not 2 condensers?
Great video as usual, thanks
Great catch, Abhid! We actually discussed that prior to posting the video, but we were running short on editing time. Yes, that is exactly what we mean - 1 condenser, 1 evaporator. Thank you for clarifying and thanks for tuning in!
@@MunroLive Are they refrigerant condenser/evaporator coils or hydronic coils?
@@MunroLiveIsn't it more more likely to be 1 evaporator with refrigerant, and one heater core with coolant fed by one of the heat exchangers? That way you could run the heat pump all the time while also taking advantage of auxiliary heating in those northern states where weather makes it pointless to live in.
@@derpymcderpington the condenser in the HVAC box is used in lieu of a coolant based heater core. This condenser is needed for this AC compressor to run in Heat pump mode. The HVAC fan blows over the condenser which gets the hot refrigerant in from the Heat Pump in heating mode, and the air stream is directed to the cabin for heating. In AC mode, cold refrigerant flows via Evaporator and the same blower gets the cooling done.
The traditional front end air to refrigerant AC condenser is replaced by a coolant to refrigerant (LCC - liquid cooled condenser). The LCC can be seen right next to the Heat pump
At 6:00 It is not two "condensers" - may be two evap coils, or could be a single ACoil split with foam air leak stops.
"Untangle Club" have a fantastic series of videos showing schematically how this octovalve system is working, what this valve is actually doing.
Tesla fanboy? I'm a Munro fanboy! 😄
Same!! These guys are smart
@@jaykoehn4106 "Wicked" smart, I reckon Sandy would say. :)
Just signed up to Patreon. Didn't know they were doing that until this video.
@@philwhln Thanks so much for joining the community, Phil! We'll make sure to get your name into the giveaway drawing! Thanks for tuning in!
simp
5:42 they don’t use snap fits everywhere because it’s plastic and they age and will break over the years when you bend them. That’s why they use screws
Depending on the application, I like wing-nuts or quick release levers for user serviceable components.
At 7:20 you can see some line pattern as the texture of the HVAC plastic surface; I suspect this mean the molds for the part were 3D printed.
Awesome as always. Could you please use a laser pointer or a skewer when highlighting a feature where the camera has to come in past you or zoom in.
Thx for this great in depth Videos. The filters look like mann filter frecious plus Filters. Quite expensive. Additionaly to active coal , they are Filterung particulate Matter, allergens and mould. The yellow colour ist distinctive. (P.s. Keyboard wont Change from ger to en, sorry for the mess, and stay save )
I have to disagree with your clip vs screw analysis. Yes it is faster to manufacture with clips (which is all most companies seem to care about anymore), but 10+ years down the road when the plastic becomes somewhat brittle, you can still easily unscrew parts to disassemble and fix an item. I don't mind christmas tree clips such as those used on trim, since they can easily be replaced, but something like those molded clips on the HVAC unit will snap off and become useless. Then you have to zip-tie or glue it back together, not optimal.
I was thinking of the same thing. I've had terrible luck keeping those tabs from breaking, but I guess when a car is 10 years old you probably don't care as much about one or two broken tabs that you won't ever see. If the broken tabs cause noise, just throw some tape on it or something at that point.
And when you’re up in the north at freezing temperatures, those clip breaks super easily.
All they have to do is to make clips that can withstand any scenario just like the screws, and they can actually do, if they go back to the drawing board.
Perhaps use a push through clip that's easy to compress and extract. Turn the side to be compressed toward the repair person so that it's easy to squeeze with pliers and push back. Make the easily replaced clip 'sacrificial' to protect the much more expensive parts.
some background , in the recent 3rd row tesla pod elon said their are using custom alloys for aluminium castings . So its not out of question for them to invest some time in getting better plastics , maybe they decided that the ROI is not that great right now but if they hit higher volumes this would become a priority and they could probably still introduce it as a running change. also snap fits come in all shapes and sizes they can be engineered for durability , only overhead is design you would have to invest some more time in getting the correct fit for a given Area. my point in conclusion . the idea is not without merit , it cant be done because ROI is less in low volume. there is a very real chance they would make a running change in the future.
5:08 Why not use snap-fits? Because on large strangely shaped plastic parts they are a hell to assemble.
JOTD: "Why did the engineer use 9 bolts? ... Because he couldn't get 11 in."
Joke is on him, when I put it back together I am only using 4 bolts.
@@davidbeppler3032 ..said the service tech .. "I lost 2 screws, and 4 should be enough...." .... then 2 years later there is a recall for improperly serviced vehicles, because some service dude thought he knew better.
@@KrustyKlown Funny, that is not how it works. I would not leave out 3 out of 5 lug nuts... even though it is perfectly safe to do so.
@@davidbeppler3032 Funny, that is not how it works, one would not mount a wheel using self tapping plastic screws, LOL, seriously dude, your analogy sucked.
@@KrustyKlown Leaving out nuts and bolts is a bad analogy? ok. Maybe you are just not good at reading comprehension?
It would help to zoom in a lot more on smaller things, like the grooves on aluminum, can't tell if it draw in with the marker or it's a groove
Aren't snap fits at risk of breaking after some years 🙈
Yes I hate them on aged cars, no mater how gentle and limit the bend the plastic has lost its properties and snap off. This is all wonderful for the initial first few years.
Agree, I hate snap fits so much, especially if you need to work in cold. Brakes so easily.
Great question! It's true that snap fits, especially ones with thinner molded cross sections, can become less effective or weakened if stressed too many times, but they can definitely be designed to withstand serviceability. Also, replacing air filters is not a task that's performed very frequently, so it likely wouldn't be at high risk for breakage due to overuse. Thanks for tuning in!
Svan9 In addition, they would be hard to reach and unsnap when changing the air filters buried under the dash. Did you notice how hard it looked to deal with the existing snap fits on the other assembly? Technicians use electric screw drivers most of the time nowadays so screws are easy to remove and replace once they learn the procedure.
I despise plastic parts that have to be deformed to assemble or disassemble via tabs or the like. For something that requires occasional maintenance access (e.g. to change those filters), I'll take screws any day.
Love the Filter "Made in Germany" :)
and the one made in Mexico
As one of the few user-replaceable parts, this is something that Joe Average will also hold in his hands even in regular intervals, not just Sandy Munro. :-) Adding a few cents there may pay off in terms of perceived quality. :-) While in other parts, the HVAC box was quick-repaired with a 3D printed part to overcome quality issues. :-) But few customers will ever see this, if Sandy would not investigate each detail. :-)
there are also many other parts that are made in china ive been watching these tear down videos with curiosity
Model Y cabin air filters look identical to Model 3 cabin air filters. I just replaced the ones in my Model 3 a few days ago with ones from Evannex. They look the same except for the Tesla “T” logo printed on the side.
Install wasn’t terrible but could have been better. Using a T20 bit driver while contorting over the rocker panel with your head in the footwell isn’t fun.
Also, there’s a weird little speaker on the panel under the glovebox that I couldn’t undo. What’s that for?
Looks like Elon likes German engineering and quality... Let's look forward to the Giga-Factory Berlin get into full swing. I guess, that he will get some great new engineering ideas from those Teutonic/Prussian guys. I know he will love it, as much as young German engineers being encouraged to think outside the box! I hope to live long enough to have this confirmed in time!
Great job as always Sandy!
I love that Sandy, despite being the star of the show/company, refuses to take credit for anything he didn't specifically do. That's how you lead a team. And 'because he couldn't fit 11' best line of the week for youtube.
Munro Live, now with ads. Getting that sweet ad revenue boys!
As far as I'm concerned they can run as many ads as they desire. You wouldn't get such interesting content elsewhere!
I got ad blockers so i dont use any and dont see any ads Munro doesn't make any money off me ;)
@@Rhyme905 well aren't you just a hero.
I think you should start a new series devoted to manufacturing processes, and products that use them. I would be very interested in that.
Also, I think you should start a patreon account, and ship out a random car part to contributors each week. That would be a lot of fun.
edit: wow I should have watched to the end of the video before commenting, it looks like you were way ahead of me on the patreon idea.
Sandy it’s interesting that you mention the 9 screws used on the HVAC. I recently change my air filters on my Model 3. To remove the access cover required the use of a T-10 screwdriver. I was wondering why didn’t they just use a clip to hold the cover in place like on my Nissan Leaf. The air filter replacement is DYI and would have been much easier to access without having to use a tool and risk loosing the screw.
I agree, my other car is a Nissan Murano and the cabin filter cover uses a clip too. However, with the Nissan, I have to contort my body much more than the Model 3 to replace the filter.
Sandy is gold to any mfg. looking to improve their product.
Goodness, you can see those layer heights in that 3D print from the moon!
cool vid Sandy, keep up the great work
Another great, informative video! Thanks, Sandy! When you get a minute or two, could you please point out where on the Octovalve piece the octopus is, for context? Thanks!
bolts because it needs it needs a tight/strong seal and very low chance of rattle/vibration of the part.
If you have one long filter it is hard to get out because you have to bend it . Chevy also haves two filters because of that reason. The later model haves one filter but you can bend it one way BUT it is more expensive . My 2008 Chevy Avananche standard haves no cabin filter at all.
The way the Tesla filter door and setup is designed it would be impossible to use one filter.
@@MTNRanger correct , that's my point.
The 3D printed fix is definitely interesting. I wonder how much time it took for each unit
As the print quality is low, I would say it can be printed in about 15 minutes
MatiaS I would say closer to hour, depending on the total depth.
a few minutes, print speed is very high.
flippynl Yes, you are right. The printing was done at a low resolution to save time. They aren’t using the kind of hobby printers we see on UA-cam. This is FDM printing where a thermoplastic filament is fed through a hot nozzle that melts it. No laser is involved as Sandy stated. That’s SLS, selective laser sintering in which powdered plastic (or metal) is melted by a laser. You can tell the difference just by looking at them.
Yep definitely just a few minutes print speed is to high and the viscosity is to high for that speed ... it’s looks like it’s not really stable
More quick and dirty really sadl :(
I have notifications on UA-cam for 3 channels. This is one of them.
I have notifications on pornhub on my fav uploaders, Sandy is not one of them.
Rhyme905 I didn’t know pornhub has a notification system. I’m definitely not going to go straight to pornhub right now.
The dual heat exchanger cores, I'll all but guarantee one is a condenser and the other an evaporator. This allows dehumidification in defrost mode on a single air path. I'd love to take the cooling unit apart. While I admire their intent (I think), there is much I would have done differently (I think). I'm more convinced this will be a maintenance nightmare, but didn't have to be.
Our understanding is consistent with yours at this point, Bill - one condenser and one evaporator. Little bit of a mis-speak on our part. Thanks for tuning in and keeping us on our toes! Always appreciate your insight.
Sir, would you mind explaining some of your marking techniques? I suspect the red stickers denotes that that area was measured or "checked-off" etc, but what about all of the paint pen markings etc?
Red = New, Orange = mostly the same, Green = Same part as Model 3.
@@stephen-boddy Thanks for the backup! ;) Some of the paint markings we apply to highlight certain features, but it is also very typical for automotive OEMs and suppliers to use paint pens as part of their quality checking procedures on non-visible parts. For example, an operator might manually trace a weld with a paint pen to confirm that he has visually inspected it and confirmed that it's present. The stickers are for a commonality assessment compared to the Model 3 as Stephen mentioned. Thanks for tuning in!
Y continues to impress. Thanks!
how???
@@carholic-sz3qv Construction techniques such as high quality consistent welds, properly shielded wiring, use of simplified castings in aluminum and plastic, use of many existing model 3 parts, and no serious production bottle necks. No car is perfect, but for a first run vehicle this thing is totally impressive.
@@richardalexander5758 nope this thing is not impressive because first those technologies arent that old, and also many manufacturers have been using those techniques, audi started using 100% aluminium body for almost 2 decades, even cast metal parts, and very high end cars or sport cars have special fabrications processes
@@carholic-sz3qv Why ask then?
The model 3 is notorious for having worse than usual odor from a/c condensation, other than having what appears to be bacteriostatic filter media, does the Y show any design difference that might alleviate that (my car stinks)?
8:19 Someone should help tesla calibrate their 3D printers 🙈
Layer height way over the nozzle limit. hahahahahahahah call josef prusa for god's sake...
Actually looking at it more carefully, that piece was printed on supports, so the more precise face is touching the original part. What we see is the bottom of the print, where there is very little hope for a good first layer.
@@thiagoennes definitely correct. Looks like 3D pen shit tho
Looks like they've printed at the absolute maximum speed that still yields a working part, which is just making the process more effective
Haha, most garbage 3D print I’ve ever seen haha. I Guess it gets the job done, lol, but second that TSLA needs some 3D print expertise. (Elon, Call me 😘)
07:01 “TESLA Made in Germany” yes, we’re going to see more of that!
Thanks Sandy gr8. High tech Octo. Is it black steel banding (or SS?), tape and cardboard around the heat exchanger? Possibly it is packaging and should be removed after delivery since it looks so out of place? Sure looks like a bandage like the 3d printing. You see wires touching the heat exchanger also, bottom left, is that because it has been removed or is it the same thing in place?
Tesla could be taping the side of a standard filter so you can get the bottom one out :0). 9 Plastic screws to change your mini filters! I may write 9 screws on the shed wall. Nothing is perfect but I do own good enough. Hope this Y will become one of those.
Those slots look very wide to have been done with a wire EDM, unless they went dwon both sides of the slot to get that width. Are you sure it wasn't done with abrasive water jet? That would be a couple orders of magnitude faster.
Could be, thank you for your suggestion, Dale. We'll have to get it fully disassembled and analyzed to confirm, but that will be an important consideration, as cycle time and manufacturing methods are elements that drive our costing reports. Thanks for tuning in!
So cool to see the 3D printed patch! very good idea, but could you test to see if it's PLA or ABS? PLA is not really suitable in a car where summer heat will make it soft and loose its shape. (experience: having a 3D printer and often using it to fix small thing in my house and car)
Yes, we'll be taking a closer look in an attempt to confirm what material it is, but it might not be for a little while. Thanks for tuning in!
@@MunroLive WOW thanks for the reply!
Screw snaps, I would rather have metal compression clips (toyota) for any item that must be serviced.
Afternoon Munro & Associates, I'm curious what would you estimate manufacture cost is to build the Model Y, or any Tesla product S, X, or 3
Why don't they use more plastic instead of fasteners? Sure, build it fast and cheap to service so it breaks and makes it harder and expensive to swap the whole shell...
you need to use screws to make a good seal. Can't achieve that with snap fits. From quality point of view screws are better because can be checked by camera system + torque shut-off tool. Snap fits are rather hard to detect if closed correctly. There is also rigidity of whole unit. You don't want it to squeak on bumpy roads - screws win here again.
There is compromise to be made everywhere and I'm sure guys at Tesla know what they doing (minus 3d printed part, but hey, its early car, so good save! Quality of that print could be better, but speed was main objective, so you need to compromise when you need hundreds of them).
Octovalve looks cool and has some proper engineering solutions. It is like adult videos for engineers. Wonder how easy it is to bleed that in service!
Can you check the glass transition temperature of that 3D printed adaption? Presumably they’re using something more sophisticated than us home gamers otherwise it’d probably deform or degrade in an automotive environment
If you look closely, the ENTIRE assembly was 3D printed!!! This is wild to see on an early production car, and I would bet $$$ this disappears as production progresses (it's likely gone already, since we're into the thousands for Model Y). You can see faint traces of 3D print lines along faces and edges. Tesla likely 3D printed with ABS plastic and then smoothed everything using Acetone vapor. This is a common technique in the 3D printing community.
We do NOT see this on the Model 3, which has an almost identical HVAC assembly. They used traditional injection-molded ABS. This is evidenced by date code insert and other defects (or artifacts, rather) of injection molding.
I was hoping that you were going to talk about why Tesla model 3 and Y starts to smell like vinegar in 2-3 months, and we need to replace filter and clean the system all the time
Those filters are the same as the model 3.
I wonder if that sun visor will direct fit into a model 3? I like that magnetic connector! They look to be the same size or perhaps it exactly the same visor but the only difference is the magnetic clip part that snaps into the headliner. That would be cool to be able to switch that out. Thanks!
I wonder if the new built model 3's will get the magnetic fastener. I hate it when old car visors droop because the clip busted years ago...
9 screws to get to the cabin air filters.
Q: Are the sun visors extendable? IE does is slide out on the rod to cover more or a different part of the side window when the sun is on the side?
Pretty sure that was shown at some point in one of the early videos in this series.
Oops. I was thinking of Ep21, but he doesn't extend them out, just demonstrates the magnet. I'm sure I've watch someone demonstrating the rod sliding out somewhere on YT.
If it's anything like the 3 then yes, the 3's visors extend along the rod. Only difference I've seen so far is the magnet on the Y vs the hook on the 3.
@@calaverx11 It is not a unique design to the 3 or any other Tesla. I've seen that on many car brands. I just thought it worth Sandy noting. It is such a simple design improvement but it does so much for driving comfort.
Thanks Sandy, stay safe mate 😷👍
Marvelous engineering .
4:45 screws vs snap fits ... snap fits are not good for carry a load (is there a compression seal there?) .. and snap fits can be a frustrating puzzle for service people, and very hard to access for service, especially if you have a 1/2 dozen or more that all need to be released at once.. that can be a service nightmare, where screws are much easier and very intuitive to the tech. The other thing that could be going on here, is that 2 different designers developed those parts, once with screws and one with lots of snaps, LOL.
thanks for the videos
So with all these snap fits, I see a car that can't be rebuilt in 15+ years. This is why I like screws, easy to find, relativly easy to repair the internal threads. Rebuilding my 30+ yr old E30 S54, taking the HVAC appart it was so very brittle and the snap fit parts fall apart in the hands. However I do think plastics are most likely better than 30_ years ago... Earlier he stated he sees bolts fail, and internal to a car I say no, no they really don't. External with rust? Yes but then the heating/cooling for these snap fits means nothing will ever be tight again easily.
Sandy for President!
I must say I'm a bit puzzled about the heatsinks - it looks like there's a lot of stuff that would obstruct airflow...
Going to thumbs up before I watch this, OCTO-VALVE is a super hero 😜
Hello Mr. Munro !
I am just curious who is the supplier of this HVAC unit. Is there any label on it ?
Curious what type of fillament has been used for that 3D print, I usually use PLA but over time it will be more brittle
Yeah. Definitely not PLA, that clip would fall on the first hot summer day.
You have Tesla fans and those like me who can not afford to buy one. Thank you for your video. Roger
Please tell us what the motor HP is.
Really like the theme music. As Elon might say this is next level!
Thanks Mr munro
Pretty sure those would be evaporators behind the filters. Not condensers...
8:42 so it's the same story that happened to the wiring in some of the past videos - they did a quick fix so not to stop production... Elon should be happy to continue production :)
I have seen other UA-cam videos showing that those filters are stock filters already being manufactured. They are just custom imprinted for Tesla. The identical aftermarket parts cost less than the Tesla brand. Overall, the fact that they are being mass produced lowers the price Tesla has to pay. It would make no sense for Tesla to make their own filters at this point in time from a cost standpoint.
JEFF BRANSKY fully agree, on both of your points :)
stop talking the nonsense here, the filters are made in germany because they have the expertise of it, plus mercedes, bmw, audi, bosch and many other german manufacturers already uses those same type of very eficient and good filters , the tesla ones arent special, there are even better ones on the market
Mr. Munro, does the Octovalve work in conjunction with the Superbottle, or does it replace it altogether?
Super bottle describes an assembly - coolant bottle, 5 way valve, 2 pumps ( 1 for std range), sensor.
Octovalve is just the valve that replaces 5 way valve. Octavalve is part of the super manifold assembly like 5 way is part of super bottle.
Another good video.
"makes it easier to go together!" (as he pushes the part aside not together after struggling lol ... )
Sandy, you need a CT x-ray machine.
When do we get the "tear down at home" videos?? :-)
The hvac blower uses a brushless dc motor.
Correct. Thanks for tuning in!
I hope for the best on the analysis on that Octovalve/hvac system.
They probably used a form of FDM 3D printing no lasers
1:41 did anyone notice the made in Mexico sticker? this goes against what Elon recently said on Twitter that all of the model Y is from America source components
I think SpaceX has lots and lots of experience with friction stirr welding so i guess there is some knowledge transfer there
Is that unit ontop of octovale a battery or like mini power producer like on electric bysicle to keep it running when needed even incase main battery or some electrical any way is it self sastaining unit for that and other critical components ?
Why did they use 9 bolts - I have a 25yr old BMW .. the plastic bits are all broken, the bolt bits are all healthy and in place. ;) Always use bolts.