If you found this video useful, don't forget to press the LIKE button. It really helps me out! Like the look of the workbench? Watch me make it here: ua-cam.com/video/FXKYwM0f5WU/v-deo.html&t
I used the same soap as your 2nd Amazon order and it worked pretty much as yours did here. One thing that I found worked well, is after doing a couple of applications of it normal consistancy, make a small second batch that is much thicker and sets to a kind of wax. Put that on as a final coat and buff it out and it really comes up a treat...
Missed opportunity for using that beautiful micro plane! I've been wanting to try this finish for a while, so glad you did this!!!!! Seriously loving this series. I feel like finish gets glossed over a lot.
As a soap maker that is just getting started in wood working this video was really interesting. We don't use volume much in soap making, you might have got a better result with weighing the grated soap. Water is fine to not weigh for something like this though because 1ml = 1g. Then the weight of the soap would be on the packet, so easy to estimate. Does alcohol damage wood? If not alcohol might have been a good choice because it will dry very quick and not make the wood expand so much, it will also dissolve the soap quicker. If I was doing this though, I'd be tempted to rub the soap on as it is, like chalk on a blackboard, then buff it in. It might be more elbow grease at the beginning but I think it will be overall quicker to get the layers on. Then maybe a final wipe over with alcohol to smooth down the layer, it might get a little sheen then too. I'd love to try all this out one day, thank you for the inspiration and demonstration 😀
Wonder if the main difference was that the first soap you used was based around coconut oil while the soap flakes seem to be a more normal soap, as coconut oil has a really low melting point maybe it affected the makeup of the mixture (also really should use scales for things like this, I would guess, gets your ratios more accurate ;) ). Still fun video, really glad I came across your work recently, currently binge watching your old videos :)
This is most likely it. Most soap sold as bars is not actually the actual substance soap, but some approximation that in almost all cases have the same effect while being cheaper to produce.
I do think the recipe of the soap here is the culprit but the melting point of the coconut oil will not make a difference here as after saponification, the molecular structure has changed and it is technically no longer coconut oil, it’s sodium cocoate. From my understanding you are supposed to use soap with sulphates added for this technique, not a more natural bar, however as a soap maker I have made this exact gluggy mixture for my laundry with my own purely oil based soaps so I couldn’t really tell which ingredient is preventing that from happening.
the common danish method (I lived there for a long time) uses soap flakes, which you used to be able to buy in the UK. but as Dri-Pak, the manufacturers, have stopped producing the flakes (the machine was ancient and finally gave up) the alternative is to use 'Liquid Soap Flakes' which you can get at Wilko (and unlike the flakes, it doesn't contain any palm oil). it's important to use pure soap - no additives as these might affect the result I use a 25% mix of Liquid Soap Flakes to *cold* water: if you're using it on oak, you might want to try a weaker solution as too much soap can react with the tannin and turn it greyish black, and not in a good way. it's easy to mix as for the finish: if you go to most Danish dives you'll find oak tables which ar very clean, even though they get beer on them all the time. they're washed with soapy water every day and simply left to dry Carl Hansen has a great video here: ua-cam.com/video/1OG_PL-Rf58/v-deo.html (sorry about the yank accent). you don't need to sand: I find that a good quality scotchbrite pad works very well
Wilko Liquid Soap Flakes: www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-original-liquid-soapflakes-750ml/p/0412410 you can get it as Dri-Pak liquid soap flakes - exactly the same stuff, just usually more expensive
Chris used Castille Soap which is a very old type, made with few ingredients. I imagine it might work with other old styles of soap too, but with modern soaps it's kind of a gamble because the actual composition is a laundry list of ingredients (in the interest of it being better as-soap).
To the ones experimenting troubles doing this finish on Oak, I just made tests and had the same results with the oak turning greenish/grayish/brownish... in an unpleasant way. Scrapping the soap I noticed it was brown . So it 'pumped out' the tanins fron the oak. I washed the oak pieces with very hot water and a brush . The water turned out to get brown.I then set the oak to dry close to heat source so that it don't soak too long. Day after I started to soap again and it went out perfectly. I mean., there was a slight color shoft compared to the more "Drift wood" the oak had after drying. but it finally reached the danish oak color some might expect from this finish. So, "wash" your oak to get the tanins off prior to soaping it.
I used a natural laundry detergent(Castile flakes) in my mix. Interestingly it had u.v brightener in it, which I learned after the fact of mixing the finish. I read you can use this on top and under other finishes, after seeing what the brightener did to the wood I put the soap finish on top of some stain then under some polyurethane. The wood was pine from the box store but after the soap finish it took on flamed maple characteristics. Haven't done anything with it since. putting it on woods we wouldn't consider a box lid or show surface, then getting a different look from a soap is a experiment worth a try.
The reason it changes the color is the Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) in the soap. It's a strong base and will attack the tannin in the wood causing a chemical color change. If you're interested in learning more, search for information on "bleaching wood".
Thanks for this answer. I just did it on oak but it's turned greenish now...I wonder how danish design forms keep the pinky tone of their oak products... Is there a way to "degreen" it? Thanks
You could add a video on ebonizing wood to the playlist. It's also sort of experimental. What I tried was several coats of extremely concentrated black tea, until the wood was starting to change color, then one layer of vinegar in which iron filings, rusty old screws and whatnot was kept for a week. The wood instantly blackened, but the grain stayed visible. IME, works best on hardwoods. Softwoods seem too porous, and the area between the hard parts of the growth rings stays too light. On hardwoods, however, you get lots of shades of black, but no grey. Like coal lit from different angles.
The reason the Kirk’s didn’t work is because it’s not a Castile soap, even though they call it that. Castile is a region in Spain where they make olive oil soaps. Kirk’s is coconut oil soap.
I’ve had someone ask me to do this to a hardwood floor. Being from Canada, this is completely foreign to me. Where are you visiting in Canada in August btw?
Are you shure, your soap flakes doesn't contain some kinds of a green additive? Here in Denmark soap flakes are bought in almost any supermarket since it is commonly used for wooden floors, and no matter what brand I've used I have never seen the wood turn green or greenish.
Also- this finish is kind of a weird one to say you have to reapply.. because you just have the soap mix on hand in the fridge and just use it to clean it when you’re washing the surface and it is the cleaner and the reapplying together as one. Plus the watery liquid will assist stains and nicks and dents to left out.
Dennis, just looked up brown soap and got two result as far as composition goes. One was lye soap and the other was naphtha soap. Not sure if this equates to the brown soap that you are referring to. The bar that Matt used is coconut oil soap, makes your furniture smell like a tropical holiday, but if I was going to use flake soap here in Australia it would be pure laundry soap, but this is considered a "soft soap". Nothing like adding more murk to already murky water.
Sorry, brow soap is for cleaning tiles etc.. I had to look it up. White soap flakes is what is used for wood. Not sure what the benefits are using soap, vs oil/wax
The mixing ratio is really not that important. And you shouldn't compress the shavings. Let the mix set for 24 hours and it will set really well. If your mix is in the thinner side, it will just take a few more coats. The point is to let the wood soak as much soap as it possibly can. When we reapply soap to a piece of furniture it's normally a really thin mix. Just make sure to apply an even layer.
Hi Matt, I can see you don't do much cooking, try this conversion chart, I have posted a link www.cuisinivity.com/guide/measurement.php or could you being using the wrong type of soap
240 grid is wrong You dont soap annything higher 120 Grid… Sanding. 120 Soap 180 Soap Ending 240 You cant get the soap get into the Wood when you blocking the woood with 240 Btw the soap you Can make in 5-10 min and it shall be like a heavyrock cream no need to stay for 24 hrs Bedst regards flemming 🇩🇰 Denmark
Lots of bah blah, too little content. I prefer Chris Schwarz's video, by much. Matt's videos are becoming too chatty, but the kind of not interesting or useful chat. I fail to see the added value of last videos, really.
If you found this video useful, don't forget to press the LIKE button. It really helps me out!
Like the look of the workbench? Watch me make it here: ua-cam.com/video/FXKYwM0f5WU/v-deo.html&t
Hi Matt, I am using this finish on a Scandinavian style dining table I have made and this was very helpful. Thanks for the videos I really enjoy them.
You sure u just didn't spaff In a jar
You should also do the ratios by weight instead of volume.
I used the same soap as your 2nd Amazon order and it worked pretty much as yours did here. One thing that I found worked well, is after doing a couple of applications of it normal consistancy, make a small second batch that is much thicker and sets to a kind of wax. Put that on as a final coat and buff it out and it really comes up a treat...
Yea I should have tried that really! I think I got too impatient by the end of it
Wooden plane blade, scissors...if only there was some apparatus to stir liquids in a bowl
Well done, you got there in the end and should you attempt this again, may the Schwarz be with you.
Missed opportunity for using that beautiful micro plane! I've been wanting to try this finish for a while, so glad you did this!!!!! Seriously loving this series. I feel like finish gets glossed over a lot.
I like the multiple fails as I know thats how things really work and how I would be. Interesting
so glad I watched this after the OG video. Thanks for the breakdown and testing. Now I'm buying the flakes instead of the stupid bar.
As a soap maker that is just getting started in wood working this video was really interesting. We don't use volume much in soap making, you might have got a better result with weighing the grated soap. Water is fine to not weigh for something like this though because 1ml = 1g. Then the weight of the soap would be on the packet, so easy to estimate. Does alcohol damage wood? If not alcohol might have been a good choice because it will dry very quick and not make the wood expand so much, it will also dissolve the soap quicker. If I was doing this though, I'd be tempted to rub the soap on as it is, like chalk on a blackboard, then buff it in. It might be more elbow grease at the beginning but I think it will be overall quicker to get the layers on. Then maybe a final wipe over with alcohol to smooth down the layer, it might get a little sheen then too. I'd love to try all this out one day, thank you for the inspiration and demonstration 😀
Wonder if the main difference was that the first soap you used was based around coconut oil while the soap flakes seem to be a more normal soap, as coconut oil has a really low melting point maybe it affected the makeup of the mixture (also really should use scales for things like this, I would guess, gets your ratios more accurate ;) ). Still fun video, really glad I came across your work recently, currently binge watching your old videos :)
Very good point. Didn’t even consider that despite the fact all the coconut oil in my house is liquid at the moment!
This is most likely it. Most soap sold as bars is not actually the actual substance soap, but some approximation that in almost all cases have the same effect while being cheaper to produce.
I do think the recipe of the soap here is the culprit but the melting point of the coconut oil will not make a difference here as after saponification, the molecular structure has changed and it is technically no longer coconut oil, it’s sodium cocoate. From my understanding you are supposed to use soap with sulphates added for this technique, not a more natural bar, however as a soap maker I have made this exact gluggy mixture for my laundry with my own purely oil based soaps so I couldn’t really tell which ingredient is preventing that from happening.
Grate video.........
Love it. Top comment.
Great. Actually pretty good cinematic shot of the soap ;) . But the childish giggle when playing with the soap on the ash was killer :D
the common danish method (I lived there for a long time) uses soap flakes, which you used to be able to buy in the UK. but as Dri-Pak, the manufacturers, have stopped producing the flakes (the machine was ancient and finally gave up) the alternative is to use 'Liquid Soap Flakes' which you can get at Wilko (and unlike the flakes, it doesn't contain any palm oil). it's important to use pure soap - no additives as these might affect the result
I use a 25% mix of Liquid Soap Flakes to *cold* water: if you're using it on oak, you might want to try a weaker solution as too much soap can react with the tannin and turn it greyish black, and not in a good way. it's easy to mix
as for the finish: if you go to most Danish dives you'll find oak tables which ar very clean, even though they get beer on them all the time. they're washed with soapy water every day and simply left to dry
Carl Hansen has a great video here: ua-cam.com/video/1OG_PL-Rf58/v-deo.html (sorry about the yank accent). you don't need to sand: I find that a good quality scotchbrite pad works very well
Wilko Liquid Soap Flakes: www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-original-liquid-soapflakes-750ml/p/0412410
you can get it as Dri-Pak liquid soap flakes - exactly the same stuff, just usually more expensive
Lux Flakes work well too if your gran has a pack in the back of the cupboard, btw
Thank you : )
nice clean video...
Chris used Castille Soap which is a very old type, made with few ingredients. I imagine it might work with other old styles of soap too, but with modern soaps it's kind of a gamble because the actual composition is a laundry list of ingredients (in the interest of it being better as-soap).
Oops sent you the comment before I finished watching, cool video and love the honesty of your videos.
Ray Smith The video would be better without the oroduct placement of a bottled water brand.
Volvic 4 life mate
could you use this on 1/8 plywood with a veneer on it?
To the ones experimenting troubles doing this finish on Oak, I just made tests and had the same results with the oak turning greenish/grayish/brownish... in an unpleasant way.
Scrapping the soap I noticed it was brown . So it 'pumped out' the tanins fron the oak.
I washed the oak pieces with very hot water and a brush . The water turned out to get brown.I then set the oak to dry close to heat source so that it don't soak too long.
Day after I started to soap again and it went out perfectly. I mean., there was a slight color shoft compared to the more "Drift wood" the oak had after drying. but it finally reached the danish oak color some might expect from this finish.
So, "wash" your oak to get the tanins off prior to soaping it.
my favorite of all: bee's wax traditional finish
I used a natural laundry detergent(Castile flakes) in my mix. Interestingly it had u.v brightener in it, which I learned after the fact of mixing the finish. I read you can use this on top and under other finishes, after seeing what the brightener did to the wood I put the soap finish on top of some stain then under some polyurethane. The wood was pine from the box store but after the soap finish it took on flamed maple characteristics. Haven't done anything with it since. putting it on woods we wouldn't consider a box lid or show surface, then getting a different look from a soap is a experiment worth a try.
The reason it changes the color is the Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) in the soap. It's a strong base and will attack the tannin in the wood causing a chemical color change. If you're interested in learning more, search for information on "bleaching wood".
Thanks for this answer. I just did it on oak but it's turned greenish now...I wonder how danish design forms keep the pinky tone of their oak products... Is there a way to "degreen" it? Thanks
You could add a video on ebonizing wood to the playlist. It's also sort of experimental. What I tried was several coats of extremely concentrated black tea, until the wood was starting to change color, then one layer of vinegar in which iron filings, rusty old screws and whatnot was kept for a week. The wood instantly blackened, but the grain stayed visible. IME, works best on hardwoods. Softwoods seem too porous, and the area between the hard parts of the growth rings stays too light. On hardwoods, however, you get lots of shades of black, but no grey. Like coal lit from different angles.
Vinegar and iron works good with white oak.
Do you think this would be effective to seal chalk paint instead of a wax?
I'm not sure but the ratio isn't by weight? So for 100g of soap with ratio 4:1 400ml of water?
The reason the Kirk’s didn’t work is because it’s not a Castile soap, even though they call it that. Castile is a region in Spain where they make olive oil soaps. Kirk’s is coconut oil soap.
If it gets wet does it get slick and/or bubbly?
Is there a reason to use cups as a measurement rather than grams? (I havent watched Chris' video yet.
No idea, just following what I was told! I guess it works on ratios but I’m sure weighing it would be more accurate.
I just watched a British soap opera. hahha
Why do you sand after planing?
He sands it to rough the surface so it accepts the finish better
I’ve had someone ask me to do this to a hardwood floor. Being from Canada, this is completely foreign to me.
Where are you visiting in Canada in August btw?
Ottowa!
Matt Estlea i do not know where ottowa is but i do know of ottawa
Are you shure, your soap flakes doesn't contain some kinds of a green additive? Here in Denmark soap flakes are bought in almost any supermarket since it is commonly used for wooden floors, and no matter what brand I've used I have never seen the wood turn green or greenish.
I’ll have a look. Possibly though!
Honestly, from the look of it, it looks like either the texture shortening or the soap mechanics use. Either way, cool video, thanks.
if you cant remember where you felt that texture before, ask your girlfriend, she will tell you 😉
Ohh you bad man 😂
Matt Estlea see, now you remembered 😉
Oh god, I should not have read that before watching...
ah yes, the smooth finish a good soap leaves on a lady's beautiful rear. A texture to die for.
Maybe it’s best to weight it, good video!
great video, interesting that it didn't work with soap bars...
For 1 REAL cup o'soap, measure it before grating! (e.g., water displacement)
Also- this finish is kind of a weird one to say you have to reapply.. because you just have the soap mix on hand in the fridge and just use it to clean it when you’re washing the surface and it is the cleaner and the reapplying together as one. Plus the watery liquid will assist stains and nicks and dents to left out.
Забавное кино..особенно,про ,,ксперимент,, )) с мылом..
The problem with your soap mix is you need to refrigerate it!
Who doesn’t like the feeling of soft wood?..
I love natural and elder finishing technics, but i'll avoid to clean my furnitures
It's a bit jizzy. Just saying.
"Next week, in experimental finishes..." DEMONETISED.
Sembra la ricotta marzotica - per pasta e fagiolini .
maybe better to go by weight of 1 cup of soap flakes instead...
I'm really noob at this so this question may sound stupid.
Will this finish not come off in contact with water? Cause its technically just soap :/
Eventually it will come of little by little so it's good to reapply xx
it seems to be olive oil soap
In Denmark it's brown soap flakes used for floors and furniture.
Not sure a bar of hand soap really compares to brown soap
I know it is traditionnaly used for floors. But doesn't it wear out too fast ?
Seb R you add soap flakes every time you wash your floors.
oh yes indeed !
Dennis, just looked up brown soap and got two result as far as composition goes. One was lye soap and the other was naphtha soap. Not sure if this equates to the brown soap that you are referring to. The bar that Matt used is coconut oil soap, makes your furniture smell like a tropical holiday, but if I was going to use flake soap here in Australia it would be pure laundry soap, but this is considered a "soft soap". Nothing like adding more murk to already murky water.
Sorry, brow soap is for cleaning tiles etc.. I had to look it up. White soap flakes is what is used for wood.
Not sure what the benefits are using soap, vs oil/wax
you do know that modern hand soap chemicaly is not soap
and there are almost alwayseother substances includet for different reasons
The mixing ratio is really not that important. And you shouldn't compress the shavings. Let the mix set for 24 hours and it will set really well.
If your mix is in the thinner side, it will just take a few more coats.
The point is to let the wood soak as much soap as it possibly can.
When we reapply soap to a piece of furniture it's normally a really thin mix. Just make sure to apply an even layer.
Hi Matt, I can see you don't do much cooking, try this conversion chart, I have posted a link www.cuisinivity.com/guide/measurement.php or could you being using the wrong type of soap
Maybe that gray color was simply a dirt? You said, it's cleaning your hands :D
Haha very good point!
If it's lye soap, lye being a base, I'd reckon it's a chemichal reaction rather than finish contamination.
Coulda just boiled off excess water...
240 grid is wrong
You dont soap annything higher 120 Grid…
Sanding. 120
Soap
180
Soap
Ending
240
You cant get the soap get into the Wood when you blocking the woood with 240
Btw the soap you Can make in 5-10 min and it shall be like a heavyrock cream no need to stay for 24 hrs
Bedst regards flemming
🇩🇰 Denmark
Kto z 5m2? :)
Lots of bah blah, too little content. I prefer Chris Schwarz's video, by much.
Matt's videos are becoming too chatty, but the kind of not interesting or useful chat.
I fail to see the added value of last videos, really.