I do think that "failing to connect" is a great way of saying it. Someone else might fall in love with something you can't connect with. I find first person POV more immersive (it's my favourite) but I can see how perspective switching can interrupt engagement. It just needs to be handled correctly. I think we see more of it now because TV adaptations of novels use it so much and people are used to it. Edifice Complex is still taking up space in my head, by the way!
I hope you start feeling better soon! I really need to make reading more Clive Barker a priority. This year I read hellbound heart and books of blood vol 1, which were my first experiences with him. I have Monstrilio on my shelf because I've heard many friends talk about how they loved this, and I generally love grief horror. I think multiple pov happens more than you think, because I don't read romance and I see it. Trying to think of where....thriller? I just read Hitchcock Hotel and it had multiple pov. So did Weyward and Chain-gang All-stars (In these cases, it was to show different characters' stories that eventually become part of one another's stories) It is not something that bothers me when done well. For a grief novel....I think I would want to be immersed in just one story/pov. Congrats on hitting 2k!
Thanks😁I went into Monstrilio out of curiosity for grief horror (a term I only first heard of a few weeks ago). Hopefully, Monstrilio will land better with you than it did me.
I hope you're feeling better soon. I'm so glad you enjoyed All's Well. I've loved all of Mona Awad's books, but All's Well is my favorite. I absolutely loathe The Sun Also Rises. I had to read it for grad school, and I share all of your sentiments. I liked Monstrilio, but I feel like I need to reread it to pick up on some of the themes I may have missed. As far as multiple first person POVs trending now, I wonder if it has anything to do with shortening attention spans due to excessive consumption of social media. I think many people find it difficult to immerse themselves in one point of view for long periods without needing to "scroll to the next thing." Shfiting POVs are one way authors try to appeal to this type of reader. I may be way off base, but these are my thoughts based on my experience teaching high school students today.
Thanks, Michael, for the great recommendations. I need to read more modern fiction, there are just so many classics I haven't read. I just finished Lonesome Dove recently, and I loved it. The longest book I've read in awhile other than Weaveworld. I did not know about these Barker novellas or these figurines. Money grabs or not, I need to read any Barker I can get my hands on. I've even tried his games from back in the day, the first being awesome.
@@Michael_Wertenberg I think you'll enjoy it! Deep characters, great internal monologues, and world-building on the level of great fantasy works. Can't wait to see if you make a vid on it.
While, like anything with writing and enjoyment of such, it is all subjective, “The Sun Also Rises” possesses one of the best closing lines. “Yes, I said, isn’t it pretty to think so.”
I read Dark Places at the beginning of the year. That was good! I don't think much about the POVs as long as the story keeps me interested and it's written well. I'm ready for a fun creature feature so i ordered Claw by Katie Berry for my winter read! Catching up on my In Death series right now. Feel better soon!xx🤧❤️
Every once in a while I'll do something I regret and Cher will belt "If I Could Turn Back Time" in my mind's ear in sympathy and solidarity. That occurred after reading Monstrillio by Gerardo Sámano Córdova. But I'm happy to report the ick is wearing off. When it comes to first person narrative multiperspectivity I think of Susan Howatch. I've read most, if not all, of her books and going by memory I think most (all?) are multiple first person narratives. I loved them all but if I had to pick a favorite it would be the Starbridge Series about the Church of England. There are six books each narrated by different people about a fictional Anglican diocese. She's often compared to Trollope but I think they are very different writers. She also wrote family sagas that are modern recreations based on the Plantagenets, Edward I and II, and Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Mark Antony, and Octavian. If memory serves, I think they are all multiple first person narratives. I ate them all up with a spoon. I'm fascinated by the fact that eye witness testimony isn't considered to be all that valuable in court. Five different people see things five different ways. We're all living in our own private Idahos.
Wow. I'd never heard of Susan Howatch. I just looked her up. Very interesting: to be 'eaten up with a spoon'.😁Which of hers would you recommend for the uninitated or the first-timer?
@@Michael_Wertenberg That's a tough one because I think her best books are the Starbridge books but I doubt, and I could be wrong, but I figure you would not be amused for too long by angsty Anglican clergy with sexual problems and power struggles. It's deliciously soap operesque and just goes on and on. But if that sounds good to you Glittering Images is the first. The Rich are Different and The Sins of the Father are about one of my favorite power couples, Cleopatra and Julius Caesar transposed to the 1920s. Since you write romance you may like it? But I sincerely doubt it. In general Susan Howatch approaches her characters from a psychological viewpoint and I love that. But all in all, you're not the first person to whom I would recommend Susan Howatch. Back in the day I had a beloved video store guy who would always take the viewer into consideration when making his marvelous suggestions.
@@Michael_Wertenberg sadly, for this book, in a negative way, which broke my heart because I love his writing. I think I'm just not smart enough to keep track of his multiple stream-of-consciousness POVs and shifting timelines. A very difficult read, at least for me.
@@velvettrance3173 Don't be so hard on yourself, Ms. Trance. Critics, rebranded as influencers currently, are insufferable snobs who've long tried to brainwash others into thinking authors like Faulkner and Hemingway are important. These are academics talking. I urge you to ignore their brand of mental goulash and read authors you enjoy without being discouraged about yourself. The fact is the intelligentsia aren't as smart as they want you to believe.
I will stick up for The Sound and the Fury. For me, the changes in POV revealed a lot about the family dynamics. I also liked how the varying levels of reliability in the narrators and non linear chronology made it a puzzle to solve. That being said, I can totally understand why people would find it frustrating and unenjoyable.
I don't see you reading much genre fiction but you asked about multiple narrators. It is a major trope among epic fantasy authors. The writer I credit for the trope is Robert Jordan, most famous for his unfinished Wheel of Time series. He managed to write 11 big books in his series and what he called an 'outrigger novel' involving a couple of the female characters. Jordan started his career writing John Jakes-type of bicentennial historical fiction novels. He always copied a successful author's lead and never stopped doing so. His Wheel of Time series continued the trend where Jordan blatantly borrowed/appropriated/ripped off the ideas of many writers who preceded him. The man was incapable of any original thought however this practice inadvertently created a new trend in fantasy fiction at the time: multiple long books of endlessly continued stories consisting of enormous casts with multiple POVs; most of them superfluous. At the turn of the century, a decade after Wheel of Time started, there were dozens of series of long fantasy books which had shed the chains of being mere trilogies. By 2024 I daresay they number almost a thousand now, all because of Jordan's Frankenstein, but the trend long ago wore out its welcome and is finally dying. Nowadays publishers don't want to get involved with epics, preferring standalone novels, most of them written by women. I say that because I'm in my 70s, started reading very young and there have always been books by men written for men, and books by women written for women. Two universal examples are Hardy Boys books for young males readers and Nancy Drew for girls. Nothing has changed except that multiple POVs have gone mainstream. And like you said, Michael, this may not be such a good thing.
Good point. I was not familiar with this writer. Thank you for the insight. Fun random fact: the vast majority of the books I ghostwrite are then marketed by the client or publisher under a woman's name
I remember Robert Silverberg doing multiple 1st person narrators in his novel -: The Book of Skulls, & I thought it worked pretty well. But apart from several SF & horror novellas, I haven't really seen particular that style utilized very often. As long as the story is interesting, doesn't faze me either way...
Sorry you are under the weather … it must be the pickles and mustard?? Get better soon. With regard to writing now v 30 years ago. I think our attention span has been shortened to such an extent that we no longer have the ability to be fully submerged in a book anymore. When I read I want the book to hold me like a lover if you will. To hold my mind to take over my soul, my ever waking moments to be consumed by the narration and for the author to have me whisper their name in reverence. That to me if a book can do that then I will forever be in love with that author. I only learned to read when I became a teenager, I have dyscalculia and dyslexia so I had to rewire me to learn to read lol. Fairy xx
Thanks. I can't imagine mustard being responsible for anything but good in this world🙃Good point about modern attention spans (I know mine isn't what it oncew was); I'm sure that plays a significant role in current writing trends
The hair probably needs 3 or 4 months of recovery😔I've only had 1 Kingsolver experience, Demon Copperhead, which I liked. I have La Lacuna on my TBR. I'll stay clear of Poisonwood Bible
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Michael, congrats on surpassing 2,000 subscribers!
Keep up the good work.
Thanks😁
I do think that "failing to connect" is a great way of saying it. Someone else might fall in love with something you can't connect with. I find first person POV more immersive (it's my favourite) but I can see how perspective switching can interrupt engagement. It just needs to be handled correctly. I think we see more of it now because TV adaptations of novels use it so much and people are used to it. Edifice Complex is still taking up space in my head, by the way!
That's a good point about TV and movie adaptations. I hadn't thought of that. And thanks for the positive words about Edifice Complex🙃
I hope you start feeling better soon! I really need to make reading more Clive Barker a priority. This year I read hellbound heart and books of blood vol 1, which were my first experiences with him. I have Monstrilio on my shelf because I've heard many friends talk about how they loved this, and I generally love grief horror. I think multiple pov happens more than you think, because I don't read romance and I see it. Trying to think of where....thriller? I just read Hitchcock Hotel and it had multiple pov. So did Weyward and Chain-gang All-stars (In these cases, it was to show different characters' stories that eventually become part of one another's stories) It is not something that bothers me when done well. For a grief novel....I think I would want to be immersed in just one story/pov. Congrats on hitting 2k!
Thanks😁I went into Monstrilio out of curiosity for grief horror (a term I only first heard of a few weeks ago). Hopefully, Monstrilio will land better with you than it did me.
The best use of multiple narrators I’ve ever seen is The Collector by John Fowles. We get the same events narrated by a kidnapper and his victim.
That's a great example, a tough read, but a good example of multiple POVs
I hope you're feeling better soon. I'm so glad you enjoyed All's Well. I've loved all of Mona Awad's books, but All's Well is my favorite. I absolutely loathe The Sun Also Rises. I had to read it for grad school, and I share all of your sentiments. I liked Monstrilio, but I feel like I need to reread it to pick up on some of the themes I may have missed. As far as multiple first person POVs trending now, I wonder if it has anything to do with shortening attention spans due to excessive consumption of social media. I think many people find it difficult to immerse themselves in one point of view for long periods without needing to "scroll to the next thing." Shfiting POVs are one way authors try to appeal to this type of reader. I may be way off base, but these are my thoughts based on my experience teaching high school students today.
I suspect you're on to something. I'm simply baffled that Hemmingway is taught in grad school (or any school, for that matter)
Thanks, Michael, for the great recommendations. I need to read more modern fiction, there are just so many classics I haven't read. I just finished Lonesome Dove recently, and I loved it. The longest book I've read in awhile other than Weaveworld. I did not know about these Barker novellas or these figurines. Money grabs or not, I need to read any Barker I can get my hands on. I've even tried his games from back in the day, the first being awesome.
Lonesome Dove has been on my TBR for ages. I will definitely get to it in January!! Looking forward to it.
@@Michael_Wertenberg I think you'll enjoy it! Deep characters, great internal monologues, and world-building on the level of great fantasy works. Can't wait to see if you make a vid on it.
While, like anything with writing and enjoyment of such, it is all subjective, “The Sun Also Rises” possesses one of the best closing lines. “Yes, I said, isn’t it pretty to think so.”
Fair point
I read Dark Places at the beginning of the year. That was good! I don't think much about the POVs as long as the story keeps me interested and it's written well. I'm ready for a fun creature feature so i ordered Claw by Katie Berry for my winter read! Catching up on my In Death series right now. Feel better soon!xx🤧❤️
Every once in a while I'll do something I regret and Cher will belt "If I Could Turn Back Time" in my mind's ear in sympathy and solidarity. That occurred after reading Monstrillio by Gerardo Sámano Córdova. But I'm happy to report the ick is wearing off. When it comes to first person narrative multiperspectivity I think of Susan Howatch. I've read most, if not all, of her books and going by memory I think most (all?) are multiple first person narratives. I loved them all but if I had to pick a favorite it would be the Starbridge Series about the Church of England. There are six books each narrated by different people about a fictional Anglican diocese. She's often compared to Trollope but I think they are very different writers. She also wrote family sagas that are modern recreations based on the Plantagenets, Edward I and II, and Julius Caesar, Cleopatra, Mark Antony, and Octavian. If memory serves, I think they are all multiple first person narratives. I ate them all up with a spoon. I'm fascinated by the fact that eye witness testimony isn't considered to be all that valuable in court. Five different people see things five different ways. We're all living in our own private Idahos.
Wow. I'd never heard of Susan Howatch. I just looked her up. Very interesting: to be 'eaten up with a spoon'.😁Which of hers would you recommend for the uninitated or the first-timer?
@@Michael_Wertenberg That's a tough one because I think her best books are the Starbridge books but I doubt, and I could be wrong, but I figure you would not be amused for too long by angsty Anglican clergy with sexual problems and power struggles. It's deliciously soap operesque and just goes on and on. But if that sounds good to you Glittering Images is the first. The Rich are Different and The Sins of the Father are about one of my favorite power couples, Cleopatra and Julius Caesar transposed to the 1920s. Since you write romance you may like it? But I sincerely doubt it. In general Susan Howatch approaches her characters from a psychological viewpoint and I love that. But all in all, you're not the first person to whom I would recommend Susan Howatch. Back in the day I had a beloved video store guy who would always take the viewer into consideration when making his marvelous suggestions.
Well this reader does not prefer multiple POVs. My brain still hasn't recovered from Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury.
I wonder if you mean recover in a positive or a negative way. (I must confess that I've never read Faulkner. Shoul I?)
@@Michael_Wertenberg sadly, for this book, in a negative way, which broke my heart because I love his writing. I think I'm just not smart enough to keep track of his multiple stream-of-consciousness POVs and shifting timelines. A very difficult read, at least for me.
@@velvettrance3173 Don't be so hard on yourself, Ms. Trance. Critics, rebranded as influencers currently, are insufferable snobs who've long tried to brainwash others into thinking authors like Faulkner and Hemingway are important. These are academics talking. I urge you to ignore their brand of mental goulash and read authors you enjoy without being discouraged about yourself. The fact is the intelligentsia aren't as smart as they want you to believe.
I will stick up for The Sound and the Fury. For me, the changes in POV revealed a lot about the family dynamics. I also liked how the varying levels of reliability in the narrators and non linear chronology made it a puzzle to solve.
That being said, I can totally understand why people would find it frustrating and unenjoyable.
I don't see you reading much genre fiction but you asked about multiple narrators. It is a major trope among epic fantasy authors. The writer I credit for the trope is Robert Jordan, most famous for his unfinished Wheel of Time series. He managed to write 11 big books in his series and what he called an 'outrigger novel' involving a couple of the female characters. Jordan started his career writing John Jakes-type of bicentennial historical fiction novels. He always copied a successful author's lead and never stopped doing so. His Wheel of Time series continued the trend where Jordan blatantly borrowed/appropriated/ripped off the ideas of many writers who preceded him. The man was incapable of any original thought however this practice inadvertently created a new trend in fantasy fiction at the time: multiple long books of endlessly continued stories consisting of enormous casts with multiple POVs; most of them superfluous. At the turn of the century, a decade after Wheel of Time started, there were dozens of series of long fantasy books which had shed the chains of being mere trilogies. By 2024 I daresay they number almost a thousand now, all because of Jordan's Frankenstein, but the trend long ago wore out its welcome and is finally dying. Nowadays publishers don't want to get involved with epics, preferring standalone novels, most of them written by women. I say that because I'm in my 70s, started reading very young and there have always been books by men written for men, and books by women written for women. Two universal examples are Hardy Boys books for young males readers and Nancy Drew for girls. Nothing has changed except that multiple POVs have gone mainstream. And like you said, Michael, this may not be such a good thing.
Good point. I was not familiar with this writer. Thank you for the insight. Fun random fact: the vast majority of the books I ghostwrite are then marketed by the client or publisher under a woman's name
I remember Robert Silverberg doing multiple 1st person narrators in his novel -: The Book of Skulls, & I thought it worked pretty well.
But apart from several SF & horror novellas, I haven't really seen particular that style utilized very often.
As long as the story is interesting, doesn't faze me either way...
That's a good example, from 1971, Thanks
Sorry you are under the weather … it must be the pickles and mustard?? Get better soon. With regard to writing now v 30 years ago. I think our attention span has been shortened to such an extent that we no longer have the ability to be fully submerged in a book anymore. When I read I want the book to hold me like a lover if you will. To hold my mind to take over my soul, my ever waking moments to be consumed by the narration and for the author to have me whisper their name in reverence. That to me if a book can do that then I will forever be in love with that author.
I only learned to read when I became a teenager, I have dyscalculia and dyslexia so I had to rewire me to learn to read lol.
Fairy xx
Thanks. I can't imagine mustard being responsible for anything but good in this world🙃Good point about modern attention spans (I know mine isn't what it oncew was); I'm sure that plays a significant role in current writing trends
Poisonwood Bible has multiple first person narration. I couldn't appreciate it.
How's the hair?
The hair probably needs 3 or 4 months of recovery😔I've only had 1 Kingsolver experience, Demon Copperhead, which I liked. I have La Lacuna on my TBR. I'll stay clear of Poisonwood Bible
It doesn't bother me.Have you read Our Wives Under the Sea? Favorite read of last year.
I've heard good things about Our Wives Under the Sea. It's on my radar...
It's so refreshing to find someone else who hates Hemingway 😁
I know a naked emperor when I see one!