Great video and good advice. I took a transmission repair course at a local tech school. The removal of the pan at every servicing was stressed for examining the amount of fine metal on the magnets and pan sump. Some minor shiny specs are expected from wear of your steel clutch plates. Also a gray paste may be found as settlement which are you clutch disc fibers. Excessive material, or larger materials, or bronze flags an impending unit failure the customer should know about. I serviced my 19 BMW X3 at 50K miles with the ZF bottled fluid. Existing fluid came out almost clear with abnormal wear metals as your appeared. While someone might think I changed it early, disposing of fluid still with life left. To me I changed it at the correct time before the wear prevention properties of the fluid were depleted. This is to prevent any unnessary wear. Fluid also contains seal conditioners which keep the rubber lip seals in the clutch packs and accumulated pliable. These conditioners can be depleted before the fluid starts to darken. I did a single drain and fill which took five quarts. 10K miles later unit is still functioning as new.
Thanks for all the tips. I've really been wanting to try the amsoil ATF as it has a great reputation. But the cost is very hard to justify as it's more than the lifeguard 8.
Jon, I sure do appreciate you sharing your very detailed and convincing information. I feel that I must commend you on this video and to put this into a simple statement this is one of the best DIY video I have ever seen.
I know I'm a bit late to this video. But I must say this is the most in depth video I have seen on this transmission. You are so specific and I love it. Thank you so much. I have learnt some serious valuable information.
I don't own an 8 speed ZF but found your video to be a compelling review of the current dilemma in auto transmission service. You nailed it precisely when you stated the economic relationship totally drives what is and is not recommended for modern fluid applications. The nagging question is why have they engineered units that require such exacting precision when they have to know the average mechanic just hacks away at some of these jobs. I suspect the sealed unit labeling is to keep sloppy and untrained mechanics from doing more harm than good. Luckily modern fluids are up to the task if you don't push them too far. Thanks for sharing your detailed findings.
I just changed pan and fluid on my 2014 chrysler 300. 238k miles. I bought the car with 182k miles and previous owner never changed the fluid. I drove it for 56k miles but not hard and did experience some hesitation when hitting the gas medium to hard. Once i changed it and drove it around, what a difference. Very responsive and much more smoother. I also noticed about 3 to 3.5 qt that came out and i had a 6 quart pump that was nearly empty by the time i filled it back up and topped it off at 110 degrees. So i was probably low on fluid that whole time I had the car from the first owner. I plan on doing another pan and oil change after 20k miles or so. Definitely would recommend changing. 👍✌
Very well done! I just did my BMW 535i with a new pan/filter from FCP and almost 4 liters of fluid. I am planning on doing 500 miles or so and than doing a fluid only change. Car has 105K miles on original fluid and I notice a significant difference in how much smoother the 8 speed shifts. Transmission was shifting fine but is definitely smoother now.. I used LiquiMoly Top Tec 1800 ATF
Huge help Jon thank you. Going to be using the PPE aluminum pan on my Ram. I am in the New York area of the USA . I don't have a Great Canadian Oil Change. So I need to figure out how to flush the system if possible. I really appreciate all the data and information you gave us . I know it was quite a bit of work. God Bless you my friend , excellent 👍🏻
I'm sure there are oil change places around there that have the same exchange machine. It's hard to imagine something being available in Canada and not the US
I'm considering either obtaining and modifying one of those thermostatic valves to stay open constantly, or buying a bypass kit for them, then temporarily installing that device to allow the flush, then reinstalling the thermostatic valve afterwards. I know it sounds like a lot of extra work, but I'd kinda like to be able to flush out ALL the old fluid.
Hi I'm Ronny from Belgium. I like your video. What I wanted to say. The two men with blue overalls are not from ZF, they are very good mechanics from Cologne (Germany) with their own UA-cam channel called Die Autodoktoren (the car doctors) I'm really impressed with those guys. Real toppers. Definitely worth a look. 👍🏼 Greetings from Belgium
Very detailed explanation of the different ZF fluids! I will only use the green ZF fluid when I do the transmission pan/filter, I will only use green ZF fluid! I can't believe how many people are mixing ZF fluid and red dexron type fluid!
Great video, great info! Back in March (2024) I just bought a 2016 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 Hemi with ~108,800 on it. Bought it down here in N. Idaho but it spent its life up in Edmonton/Red Deer area (kinda funny cuz I spent my highschool years up in that neck of the woods... Lacombe, if you know Alberta). Just approaching 119K now. I don't know much of its previous history so I've been wanting to do this so I know where it's at. Undecided about changing pan and filter or just fluid. Might just do fluid for now and decide on the other later. Appreciate all the useful info! Eta... at about 37:45 talking about fill level, don't you just fill it to the level of the fill plug, til it begins to spill out? These transmissions don't have a dipstick to check fluid level I don't think... at least the Ram 1500s don't. So how else would you check fluid level?
@gerrymatheson4020 Ya, I've noticed that's trucks from Canada have been selling like hotcakes south of the border. You are correct about the fluid level. Just make sure the fluid temp is between 30 - 50c in order to get a proper reading. I put a link to instructions from ZF in the description (hopefully it's still working). I would also recommend if your not changing the pan then only use the ZF fluid. Other fluids are fine (like the valvoline I used), but I wouldn't mix them. Replace it all or just use lifegaurd 8
Did anyone find a shop in the US that will do this fluid exchange like the on in Canada mentioned in this video? Calling around, I can't find anyone what will touch it, even if I bring them the oil.
I must admit that question surprises me. It's not often you here about a product or service you can get in Canada but not the states. Lol, usually it's the other way around!
Does the Great Canadian Oil Change place with the transmission machine have anything special relative to what Valvoline, Midas, Jiffy Lube ,... (i.e. auto shops in the USA) have to offer? Just trying to make sure if I pay for the service I am getting a better change than what I can do by hand
I have a 2019 Ram 1500. Just passed 100k km and decided to service the transmission. I used all Mopar fluid and pan/filter assembly. Not much more complicated than any other transmission and definitely worth the hour and a half the service took. Whatever fluid you use just make sure it gets serviced, don't listen to the "lifetime fill" bs the dealership will tell you....
I recently installed a B&M extra capacity transmission pan on my 2021 Ram 1500. The fill procedure that Ram says to follow is dangerous. I will not get under my truck while someone puts the transmission in different gears. I filled it until it pours out of the hole. Took 6 quarts and I installed the plug. Truck drove fine on a 3200 mile road trip afterwards. I used Valvoline Max Life.
Hello from Belgium !!! I hope my english will be good enough ... I plan to do the oil and filter change on my 2014 Ecodiesel WK2 (100 000 km) soon. Your very detailed investigations helped me deciding ... not to rush into. I would first look for a way to properly flush the cooler lines and radiator. Maybe by removing the pipes at the thermostatic vale ? And perform both the same day with a pre-fill of the cooler side. Of course it needs a complete warm-up to entirely fill the cooler circuit, then recheck the level as per instructions when back to recommended "cold" conditions. Regards
Thanks for watching. If you can find a shop that has an "exchange machine," you don't need to worry about the temp. When I had mine done it worked fine. My vehicle was at full temperature when I got to the shop. So when the exchange started the cooler lines were open. Since they only exchange 1 liter at a time, the introduction of 1 liter of new fluid is not enough to reduce the temperature significantly. Add to that the vehicle is running while the exchange is happening, so that helps it not lose to much temp over the course of the 30 mins service.
Best video I've seen so far on the topic. The fluid is black like coffee which is worrying for a "lifetime" fluid fill. My understanding is that as the clutches wear, the transmission adjusts the clutch on/off time so you can get by without changing the fluid. Once the clutches are completely worn, you toss the transmission out.
Thank you for taking the time to present such a detailed and thoughtful video. Much more comfortable with using Valvoline now. I have this 8HP70 in my Ram, which I've also just received the PPE aluminum pan. One thing to make very sure of with this transmission is to make sure it's level when filling. Did your oil exchange shop do that while it was being serviced? I almost wish I'd bought the OEM Mopar pan, just so I could measure the fluid out, and back in. Doing it that way, I would imagine it would be recommended to lift the vehicle to one side a little bit. Because you never know if the transmission would accept that same amount being added back, if there were a temperature difference. Someone may try to add back the precise amount, and it come dribbling back out of the fill hole before it's truly full? Unless it's refilled cold? Idk...
Hello Mr. John. I hope you are well. Thank you very much for your video. Mr. John, my job is car service. I have a few questions for you. I would be very grateful if you could guide me. 1. Regarding automatic transmissions, VT and DCT, what is your recommendation for changing the transmission fluid in daily driving conditions, for example, driving in traffic and highways and driving under high pressure? After how many thousand kilometers is the car working? 2. If a car with 120 or 150 thousand kilometers comes to my garage to change the transmission fluid, is it possible to damage the transmission by changing the transmission fluid? 3. Regarding cars with working conditions Above, is it possible to change half of the gearbox oil with new gearbox fluid instead of replacing all the gearbox fluid in order to reduce the possible damage to the gearbox? 4. Usually, in what kilometers of the car's operation is there a possibility of damage to the gearbox oil cooling radiator and coolant infiltration into the gearbox? Respect and best wishes.
Great information applicable for any auto transmission.Thinking of doing the tran dain and fill method at every 50,000kms interval to keep it in good shaped. Looks like measure how many liters drained and refill with the same amount should be sufficient x2. Good point about the ZF plastic drainage plug may break or strip. Alternative option for DIY, use a hand pump to suck fluid out via the fill hole ( for both drainage and fill) similar to the machine pump method you mentioned in your vedio.
Ya thanks for watching... I would highly Recommend the fluid "exchange" machine. It's quick, clean and gets 95% of the fluid. Also worth checking out the $30 replacement pan i mention in the comments... I have read alot of reviews on it now and they have all been good.
This is the most informative transmission video ever. I decided for the Valvoline. I bought an aluminum pan for $110 off Ebay. The filter is changeable once the pan is off, but I have no idea what to order. I asked the ebay seller. I imagine that most of the solids in the system come from the first few thousand miles. I don;t know if I will change the filter again. One bit of advice for fluid changes only... Shift into reverse to backflush the filter for 5 seconds, shift to park, and turn off engine.
David what makes you think reverse would backflush the filter ? that would imply the pump runs backward rather than some solenoid changing the path....
Yes that's a misconception. Whatever fluid is being 'backflushed' is simply traveling through the torque converter. You could just leave it in neutral for the same effect.
just as a follow up.. So was talking to a member in another forum about servicing options for the 8 speed transmissions. He mentioned he had bought a replacement pan for his vehicle for $29. I immediately thought he must be mistaken as i had looked far and wide for pans not long ago for my own GC. In my search I had found some pans online for around $110ca but the reviews on them were terrible. In some cases the gasket looked cheap, or they didn't come with magnets. I was very skeptical and kept thinking (and hoping since i just paid $170 for mine) that he has the wrong pan, or it's gotta be just the gasket...ect. However much to my surprise I was able to find the pan online and it looks identical to the dorman pan i ordered from rockauto. It has the same thick rubber gasket and even appears to have a metal drain plug (rather than a plastic one although it only appears in pic so can't actually confirm that). He says it arrived as ordered and appears to be as described... not flimsy or weak. I just thought I would share the info since the cost of the pan is what makes alot of people think twice about doing a service. He is going to follow up after installing it but I'm definitely cautiously optimistic about seeing a pan available in this price range! www.ebay.com/itm/68233701AA-Auto-Transmission-Oil-Pan-For-Ram-1500-Chrysler-300-with-8HP70-845RE/264645659904?hash=item3d9e1c4d00%3Ag%3AJrsAAOSwAUBeU2wE
@@joeroe2839 he says it did have all 4 magnets... haven't heard on the gasket.. I think I'll order one myself so I can do a review on it. I mean for 30 bucks not much to lose. My concern is more centered on the filter material... I would like to compare it to the replaceable filter in the dorman pan (from rock auto) I used in my video
@@jonh2408 yea true not much to lose lol and yea ur right ima go ahead and order , thing is lost all my fluid in my 14 sport 300 my ac clutch caught my oil cooler line and made a hole in it, so idk how much to put in, also do u think it ve alright if I mix it with the factory z fluid red/z fluid
@@joeroe2839 not sure if you had a chance to watch the whole video but before I learned about the exchange machine I did a few drain and fills using valvoline. Using the maxlife with the old fluid was fine in my 8hp70... have also seen alot videos and comments from people who drain out (approx 40 - 50%) their original fluid and refill with an aftermarket one (mostly valvoline or amsoil) and have never heard of a problem.... BTW if you want to read the detailed report on the $30 pan (including some pics) the forum is called "RAM 1500 DIESEL FORUM" and the post is called $30 replacement pan.
Yes sir I went tru the whole vid i was just makin sure or if it would be a problem but yea ima mix it then and go from there thanx u sir and keep up the good work and talkin your time to make em 😎🤛🏼👌🏽
I am part way through this and was watching to see if the pan had the removable filter, I'm also from Canada and didn't notice they sold the pan with removable filter and just ordered the filter for the updated pan which I obviously can't install. My oil is very dark at 200k so I may recommend to the parents after I fill it that the next time they go for a flush at 300k rather than change the very expensive mopar oil I just bought that is non returnable haha. Very informative video and I wish I had spent a few hours looking online before I pulled the pin thinking I have what I need. Thanks!
Great video. For what's it worth, if nobody has mentioned it yet, ZF doesn't manufacture their own fluid - they build transmissions. From my research, Shell makes the fluid for ZF, which explains why Shell sells it in bulk to Audi.
@@jonh2408 From my understanding, Shell makes it for ZF. ZF probably provided specs to Shell, and Shell developed the lubricant mix for production originally. Inasmuch, they probably also package it for the manufacturers for resale and use in their shops. This also explains why the Shell product is not being resold under their Quaker State and Pennzoil brands, in deference to ZF and auto manufacturers.
@garybittner interesting... thanks for the insight. That also coincides with the product specs being identical for lifeguard 8 and the shell ML - 12108.
I will be changing mine soon. The aluminum pan (PPE) interests me for my Ram 1500 3.6v6 w/ 3.21 rear gears. I am not so brave as to use the Max Life just yet, though I use it in everything else. With tall gears, these 8 spds shift alot. Funny, Max Life & Lifeguard 8 smell almost identical! The dark in the ZF is likely friction modifier. Great video!
If you do try the PPE pan please let me know how it worked out. Total cost, how long it took to arrive and what difference (if any) you noticed in temperatures. I also agree that the fluid "specs" only show a portion of the full picture. Things like friction modifiers and other additives might be be represented in the fluid specs
I shall let you know, Jon. Again, very nice video. You did alot of legwork. I will let you know on the PPE pan. Keep us posted on your Max life fluid experience. Thanks.
@@jonh2408 Well, I finally did my pan/fluid on my '18 Ram 3.6 4x4 at 49K mi. Alligator Performance gave me the best deal on a PPE pan for $263. 4.5 qts came out, 6.5 of Lifeguard 8 went in. The factory bolts, spacers & gasket were cleaned and used to install. Lemme know is you have questions. So far, it seems to run about 5-6° cooler than stock.
Nope it's the glow shit they put in it so the insurance company will be able to detect the difference in oils, the zf oil glows in the dark.. that's the only difference between these oils...zf fluid glows in the dark....that's the only difference..it's purely for leaks. To see ..and insurance reasons only
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. There is soooo much conflicting information out there, but you presented the facts in writing. Awesome Awesome Awesome video!!!! Thanks you.....
F¥€KING A+ I bought a 2016 Ram 1500 yesterday with 100 000miles on not knowing the dealership can’t service the transmission so just like you I like my stuff maintained. I got everything at O’Reilly’s. Fixing to do it tomorrow before I head out to Florida 👍🏻👍🏻
How did you do the procedure with moving through the gears on ramps? The video's I've seen with people following the procedure include the wheels turning and getting it into 2nd gear.
You can manually select 2nd gear (at least on my GC) and the directions online from ZF don't say anything about that. I know what your referring too as I saw several people doing that as well when doing my research for the video. I'm not sure where people got those instructions from (possibly from dodge) but I followed the ones from ZF, which just says to go through all the gears P, R, N, D - 1ST & 2ND. It doesn't say anything about actually needing the wheels to turn. So I just kept foot on break and went into each gear for 10 seconds
So the term "sealed" is just wording used by the car company to discourage people from playing around with it. Essentially it just means there's no dipstick for checking fluid level. But there is still a fill and drain plug located under the car.
Thank you very much! Maybe I missed it but exactly how much fluid should I put back in the transmission after replacing the pan. 2017 Grand Cherokee Laredo....
Also are you sure it's compatible with the zf 8 speed transmission?... when I looked up the product it lists the zf 6 speed and some others but not the zf 8 speed.
@@jonh2408 hmm I looked at the data sheet for gulf western. And it didn't specify it. But the fluid properties look good. When you search it on the Gulf Western Fluid finder it specifies that. Can pick up a 4L for $15 or 20 for $115
Top class information and great presentation. Perhaps you can explain how a multi vehicle ATF can conform to the 19 Mercedes specifications. The same multi vehicle claims to confirm to 6 Hyundai specifications. Hyundai service bulletins state that only two of the fluids listed are backward compatible. What is your take on this.
Well I can't speak to specific Hyundai vehicles. But I will say the ZF 8 speed transmission is one of the most widely used on the market. Dozens of models across several manufacturers use it (or a closely related version of it). So if you have a fluid that meets the spec for the ZF 8 speed, then that fluid will cover dozens of different cars. It's important to remember that car manufacturers want to maximize profits. So if they can re-brand (or re-blend) their own version of lifeguard 8 and sell it for a much higher price, they will. And of course their going "discourage/diswaid" you from buying elsewhere. When I asked my local Jeep dealership if I should use Lifeguard 8 fluid, they told me "no, you should only use mopar 8&9 speed fluid". The girl on the phone had no idea that the transmission was made by ZF, no idea that lifeguard 8 was actually the fluid recommended (not to mention the exact same thing as mopar 8&9).. she just knows what she's supposed to tell me as a Chrysler employee.
Excellent Video. Thanks for creating, I am writing to seek your advice regarding my Jeep Grand Cherokee 2020. Currently, my vehicle has covered 83,000 kilometers, and the existing warranty is set to expire at 100,000 kilometers or in September 2025. I am considering extending the warranty to 200,000 kilometers or until September 2027. However, I am facing conflicting information from my dealership in Qatar. They assert that the transmission oil is considered “lifetime,” and any replacement would fall under my responsibility. On the other hand, I reached out to Jeep Chrysler in the United States, and they assured me that changing the transmission oil would not impact my warranty. Despite this assurance, I am aware that this verbal confirmation is not an official guarantee, especially since I will be signing a responsibility paper with my dealership regarding the transmission oil change. This situation has left me feeling uncertain about the best course of action. I kindly request your guidance on how to proceed. Should I adhere to the dealership’s stance, or can I confidently replace the transmission oil without jeopardizing my warranty? Your insights would be greatly appreciated.
also there is an update on this document (List of lubricants TE-ML )11aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf "ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals."
Ya thats a tough one. If you can extend your warranty to 200,000km's that's a nice option (definitely not available here in canada). If your planning on keeping your jeep long term than I would definitely do a change (especially in a hot climate like Qatar). Maybe you could do a change but use the lifetime 8 fluid so it's the same as original. That way the dealership would have no way of knowing you did it.
Do you have a link to that video showing the ZF technicians talking about the servicing of the transmissions? I don’t see any link to it on the list. Thanks!
Good am currently driving from Vancouver to Fort mcmurray and running great. 159k now so will be changing fluid soon Will make an update video and send sample to Blackstone
Jon, I have a 2020 Dodge Challenger 6.4 with a ZF 8 HP, I drive spirited and go to the track approx 1 to 2 x per month. Wich fluid in your opinion is the best quality and performance. I'm thinking Amsoil, or Redline. I'm also interested in getting the Aluminum pan. I'm in Miami Florida and need the extra cooling. Right now I'm at 30k and plan to do this at 35k or sooner. Also does the Aluminum pan have the 4 magnets, and exchangeable filter ? Also are the viscosity with the Amsoil or Redline the same ? Thanks for the great video. Extremely informative. Oh yeah , and if you can recommend a better fluid for my ZF brand LSD Differential that came with my car. The Mopar fluid cost $40.00 Dollars per quart. Takes 1.7 on the diff, if I remember correctly, and I'm sure it's not as good as Redline or Amsoil.
So I went with the valvoline on mine because of the amount of reviews/reports of people having used it. Also because I don't do much heavy towing or demanding driving. That being said my second choice would be the amsoil. It isn't much cheaper but the limited amount of reviews I was able to find on it were all positive. With the track racing and just general driving style on that kind of vehicle I think its worth the investment. I might suggest asking around to other chrysler/dodge guys at the track (challengers/trackhawks/demons) what there general consensus is. Find out what they've been using. I'll look into the diff fluid as I've never thought about that one before.
Some really great info on this debated topic. Curious how that replacement machine works... seems like it would still end up just mixing like your drain and fill process does. They don't drop the pan even?
I will be going for my next change soon and will make a video at the shop. But no, they don't drop the pan. I think the reason it works so well is they use 15 liters of new fluid and the capacity of the system is around 7 liters. So they pump twice as much new fluid through as it could hold. I probably had some advantage because when I got mine done I had done 3 drain and fills already, so the fluid was already much newer/cleaner from the start.
I have a 2020 Jeep Gladiator 8 speed auto. Mopar recommends to use the "Mopar 8 & 9 Speed ATF" for the Transmission fluid change and "Mopar ATF + 4" for the transfer case fluid change. Is there even a difference between the two ? Can I just use the "ATF + 4" for both the transmission and the transfer case. The "8 & 9 Speed ATF" is like $33 but the "ATF + 4" is $10. I'm pretty sure they're both the same thing basically. Thoughts ?
I wouldn't mix the 2 fluids purposely or equally. If you are getting a service done with a flush machine I think it's fine. Having the small remnants of old fluid ½L mix with 8L of new fluid is something I'd be comfortable with myself
The PPE pan was just a bit over $300 (US). I bought a Felpro gasket for it at rock auto which was @ $12 I've already pressed the gasket into the channel around the PPE pan. The PPE pan has a deeper area where the filter sits. There is one round magnet which is @ 1" in diameter in that "deeper section". That's how they get another quart or two in the total capacity. From what I've learned on a doge ram forum is that the ZF transmission needs to be leveled. That is how an accurate fill level is achieved. I got the rear wheels up about 9" to achieve this. I used a torpedo level on the transmission rails until i got it right. Tomorrow I am doing the work. Also getting the old pan out isn't a problem. On some videos the guys loosened the three mounting bolts. then put a jack with a piece of wood under the transmission. They had to raise it about an inch to get the new PPE pan in place. Then removed the jack and tightened the bolts. And of course Chrysler/Dodge designed the original pan drain bolt directly over an exhaust crossover pipe! The PPE pan drain plug in a different place so the exhaust pipe isn't in the way. The replacement filter is @ $36
Great video Jon I did my own last year on my 2016 Dodge Charger Scatpack at 113K. My question about Great Canadian Oil Change is if you bring them your own oil how much is needed for the full flush and does it get all the oil out? Have you had any issues since changing to the Valvoline?
They used 15 liters when they flushed mine and it was very clean when they were done (as you saw in the video). The capacity of the entire system is around 8.7 liters. When I brought mine in there I had already done 3 drain and fills so my fluid was already somewhat "cleaner" than original. How much impact that fact had on the end result I can't say, but given that 15L is twice the total capacity I'd say it would come out pretty clean. It's still running fine with the maxlife... when I do the next fluid change (at 150,000 km's) I will send a sample to Blackstone and see what the report is on Valvoline with 50,000 km's on it
Hey why dont you just disconnect the transmission oil cooler line at the radiator and drain it from there as you're refilling the fluid at the pan so it pushes out all the old fluid instead of mixing it with the old and re draining it.
@almeal406 well the thermostatic bypass valve sits in the line between the tranny and cooler so it would stay closed (unless you could find a way to heat the fluid to 175F) so the fluid wouldn't flush any of the lines. I guess you could wait until the cooler gravity drained but that might take awhile. Plus the system only flows in 1 direction so you wouldn't get any of the fluid on the return side of the cooler
Well it depends on the specific type of transmission your vehicle uses and the temperatures your using it in. So water has a much lower viscosity than maple syrup. In other words it flows easier. If you heat maple syrup, it flows easier to meaning its viscosity lowers. I know the ZF transmissions use a lower viscosity fluid (maybe because if it flows easier you get better fuel economy) and run at a higher temperature than most. So to answer your question - NO higher viscosity is not preferred (as that would mean a thicker less flowable fluid) but higher temperature is. So the hotter your transmission fluid gets the lower viscosity it has, and it's designed that way for reasons (probably several) that only the engineers would know
hello jon good video, excellent information! .... you know, I have a classic ram 1500 pickup 3.6 liters gasoline, 2018, I am worried about its transmission temperature ZF 8 speeds, it registers 190 degrees Fahrenheit with normal use in the city center The strange thing is that it has 8000 miles, should I change the oil ??? .... Thanks for your explanation ... Greetings from Chile South America!!
Hey thanks for watching... as I mentioned in the video these transmissions seem to run warm. My grand cherokee with the 5.7L runs at 93C normally as well. I think its a good idea to change your fluid on a regular basis... but your temps are normal
My 2015 ram 1500 is leaking trans fluid out of the front of the engine block right where the fan is connected to the engine. Thought it was power steering fluid but i just learned that my truck has electric power steering. And advice? The fluid is thin and pink
Are you sure it's tranny fluid?... pink definitely isn't the correct color for mopar tranny fluid (should be dark green). Sometimes the coolant can look orange/pinkish
I have a lifetime warranty on my Ram. I guess I could just let the fluid go until the transmission had issues but I like you are reluctant to do that. But when I do change the fluid, I should stay with Lifeguard 8/Mopar or a fluid that looks very similar.
I just changed the oil pan and fluid on my 14 Wk2. Found two big chunks of metal!! Make sure you change your transmission oil!!!! Got a new transmission installed at 100K miles. Now at 168 and it’s starting to kick again. Tried getting the transmission oil changed by the dealer and they didn’t recommend it… that’s bs! there’s no such thing as life time oil.
Was the first transmission change covered under warranty?... I'm not surprised to hear the dealership didn't want to change the fluid. Although some would be happy to do it, and take $1200 from you in the process. I am surprised to hear about your tranny problems as the zf transmissions have a good to great reputation (depending which one you end up with). Is your WK2 a V6 or V8?. Do you do alot of towing? Was there alot of smaller particles on your magnets along with the bigger chunks?
this was very comprehensive and very good! Thanks. I am planning on changing my oem pan to the PPE aluminum pan on my 2015 dodge ram 1500 with the 5.7L By the way do you know of any American shops that do that fluid exchange?
I don't... but if the fluid exchange machine is available here in Canada, then it would surely be available in the US. I'm curious to know what the filter setup on the aluminum pan is like, whether it has 4 magnets. If you could let me know what the pan cost you and how hard it was to find a gasket for it. And if what difference (if any) you noticed about your operating temperature, I'd appreciate it. And thanks for watching
Soooo asking the experts. BMW 2011 X3 about to hit 200k Miles. She shifts great and I only bring her out for the winter. (winter car) Thoughts on changing the tranny fluid? tks! I"m thinking no...
@@jonh2408 $120 usd. Gasket seemed great. Pan fit perfect but only 2 magnets. I went and looked again and saw they had the 4 magnet one for 7$ more. Great video by the way. I also used valvoline same as u. The bottle actually says compatible with zf lifeguard etc im not worried about a full flush. How has your pan held up?
@Sliknik_IE ya good so far... im at 150,000 km now and was thinking about trying the amsoil on this change. The vavoline has done great just curious to try the amsoil product as it has so many great reviews. This time I won't change my filter, I'll just change fluid. Then at 200,000 I'll remove my pan, replace just the filter (clear the magnets) and change fluid. I feel like you should only need to change filter every 100,000 km
How is this pan and fluid combo doing? I bought a cheap Ebay pan over a year ago and filled with Valvoline MV ATF. The gasket pinched and bulged during final torque, eventually seeping and dripping under full throttle loads, it's been almost 30k miles so I'm going to replace what I'm hoping is just a garbage gasket. Curious if the Dorman 265850 set from Rock Auto solves the problem. Thanks, Tim
Ya the dorman one is doing fine. There was talk of one on here that was $30. I was of course suspicious of it at that price. But the little feedback I did hear on it was good. I think its in one of my comments. But ya the dorman one has been good. Will do another video at 150k showing the fluid exchange (with fluid samples) machine at great canadian. Then another video at 200k where I replace the "replaceable filter" on the dorman pan.
Hello Very good video with a lot of information. Looking on the data sheet with all fluids details in comparison and knowing that zf is a semisyntetic oil, Motul a full synthetic for example. My question is, technically, Motul will be a better oil than zf, looking as well at the viscosities values at 40°, 100° and the viscositiy index? Thanks
just a small correction, at 7:03 the guy actually said in german "Einhundert Zwanzigtausend km" which means "120.000 km" , translation is just bad there at least
Nice video! This matter is truly polemic all around the world - it would be so much easier if the manufacturers followed ZF instructions on their service intervals. I think in a near future we’re going to see lots of broken transmissions due to lack of maintenance - and this will lay down on used cars price and reliability. Anyway, the video sections were nicely chosen. Congrats!
@@jonh2408 If I do just a filter change and refill with the maxlife on my 2017 Ram (8HP70) with 155,000 miles will it hurt to mix the maxlife with the ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid?
@@bonniegoutremout1469 It didn't affect my vehicle mixing the fluids. I'd highly recommend checking around for a shop that has an "exchange machine" if you want to get all new fluid.
Really need your help. I have an Audi A6 2007 quattro with s-line. Transmission is 6HP19A but cant tell which color fluid is. Is it zf 6 or zf 8 that i need? The chart you show has both of them listed!?!?
The chart I show in my video shows fluids for the ZF 8 speed transmissions. The transmission in your car is a ZF 6 speed. Don't worry about the color of the fluid. Just make sure whatever fluid you use is compatible to your transmission. The fluids will list online (or on the jug itself) what transmissions it covers.
@DebtFreeCars well on rockauto.com it lists valvoline maxlife as a fluid... along with several others. You are correct it lists the 8 speed fluid (despite the fact yours is a 6 speed). I would just use maxlife if it were me. But you could also check with your local parts store (Napa, Auto parts plus) or as a last resort the AUDI dealership (although they'll likely tell you only to use their fluid at an extortionate rate.
Could I ask a simple question. When did you get the after Great Canadian oil change sample? It just seems too good to be true that it could get so clear if it was mixing with the entire system.
So the video might seem a little confusing as it's not actually filmed in chronological order. I did 3 drain and fills replacing around 3-4 liters each time. Then I became aware of the Great Canadian option. The last sample was taken immediately after the service was complete. They used 15 liters of maxlife and that's what the fluid looked like when complete. They cracked my drain plug to get me the sample. So the vehicle had not been driven yet when that sample was taken, but in fairness the vehicle is running for the entire service. This means that for the entire 45 mins your own tranny pump is circulating fluid. So I would think over that period of time the fluid would fully mix together from all nooks and crannies. I suppose the easiest way to tell would be to crack the drain plug now that I've driven 10k and check it out
@@jonh2408 Thanks for the reply. It just seemed too good to be true (but I an a life long cynic), Do you know if the cooling valve opened during the process? The engine and transmission were obviously not working hard but also were not being cooled by moving. Ie did the process replace the oil in the cooler or does it just do a better job of replacing the oil circulating within the transmission? If the cooler oil is as good as the sample then that is a truly amazing process. I commend you for an excellent, well researched and informative video. you will save a lot of people who would like their transmission to last beyond its first oil change from being ripped off by the manufacturer. I think you plan of 50k oil and 100k for the filter will be a great strategy.
@@davebrown6552 So the drive to great canadian was about 15 mins for me. Upon arrival my tranny temp (according to the gauge on my dash) was around 60 Celsius. My normal "operating temp" once fully warmed up is 93 Celsius. When the service was complete I do recall the temp was around 80 degrees. This was too warm to properly check fluid level (which according to the instructions from zf) should be done between 30 - 50 Celsius. I drove home and came back the next day to get that done. Whether hitting 80 was enough to make the thermostatic bypass valve open I'm not sure. I'm also not sure how much fluid the cooler and lines hold 🤔. If you really wanted to ensure it did I would recommend driving around until you reach you max temp just before going in for the service. Or I guess you could rev up your engine during the 45 min service to try and get the temp to climb more quickly. When you go back the next day to get your level checked you could have them pull a quick sample to see what it looks like after driving around for a night.
So my 2018 300 has 60k on it, question for you? Some shops say they can just drain and fill it without changing the drain out, so 3 Quarts come out, is that ok to do just to get me to 100k, at that point I would change the pan and do the complete service
I assume your talking in miles, and ya thats better than doing nothing (which is what alot of people do). But TBH you could do that yourself with basic tools (literally a socket and the Allen key for the drain plug). Then buy the manual pump (around $10) that screws onto the top of 1 liter bottles. You could do it yourself in minutes for pretty cheap. How much is the shop gonna charge you?
@@jonh2408so sorry about the delay, my shop says about 200!bucks if they use zf fluid, but i was looking at royal purple ATF and it say it is compatible with zF on the bottle, would you be comfortable using the fluid? Thanks again
@jasonwallace6945 My only recommendation would be to use the mopar fluid so that you're not mixing different fluids. I used the valvoline, but that was because I was planning to replace all the fluid. Personally I wouldn't want to mix different products, but that's just me.
@@jonh2408 Looking forward to it! I am also in Canada... I have jugs of MaxLife on my shelf for my other family vehicles. Looking forward to hearing how it's been doing in your 8 speed!
I have searched HOURS on line concerning the ZF torque converter oil flush. I’ve found Nothing. Why is there no info on how to get the oil out of the torque converter when doing the oil change? What do you suggest? Thanks for your vid.
The flush machine they used on my vehicle gets it because the vehicle is running the entire time. So your pump is constantly moving the fluid through. The only other thing that I could think of (and I'm not sure how well it would actually work) would be to park the vehicle on a downward slope, pull the drain plug and leave it out overnight. Hopefully alot more of it would get drained with gravity.
@@jonh2408 good question. I wasn’t able to see any stamp on the side of the tranny so I went to the book under the oil spec use. It just says use ZF 8-9 oil. Back history: I bought it new Nov 2020. I had asked the dealership to check all oil levels including diffs, trans case and transmission as in my previous vehicle -2017 Toyota Tacoma, all those levels were low from the factory (transmission was half filled) I didn’t know till I did my own inspection 16k later and was pissed. This time, I asked and they said they did it. I got it home and did all the steps to check the trans level and it was down 1/2 litre. But meanwhile, as I was underneath looking around the pan, there is no drain plug.
@@kevinmcelheran4489 ya thats weird.... according to what I read the tranny is a ZF 850RE (which means it's the chrysler version of the original zf design). The only thing I could think of is to buy an aftermarket pan that has a drain plug. Does it still have the fill plug?
This is so informative! I tried hard to find something good explained as u did. I passed 159,000 KM without change. I live in Dubai (so hot weather), Is it fine to go and change? I am Very hesitant although i check oil condition on white tissue and seems nut burnt or black.
@@jonh2408 thanks for prompt response! What about flush on stages like, 2 quart each couple weeks , the 3rd stage to change oil along with filters? Is it possible in this way to not wake up the genie? Trying to avoid any damages ..
@@jonh2408 yea its quadra drive ii , its very heavy duty and more fun in deserts, But thing is weather 49c nowadays, you cant have that fun , I am not sure if i can maintain the fluid change as the Trans. Temp. Is Always 90 lol
Ya the fear of dislodging/relocating debris into the mapping ducts. Personally i think this happens VERY RARELY. If you consider the number of flushes done every year compared to the number that result in problems its miniscule. I think in most cases, someone who has never serviced their transmission starts getting rough shifts or some other symptom. In an attempt to solve the problem, they decide to now do maintenance they should've done long ago. The transmission fluid with high mileage has more metallic debris than normal due to lack of changing it ever. By removing this debris the plates slip easier because the new "clean" fluid has less friction. Or the flush pushes/pressures debris into ducts causing harsher shifts. The customer leaves angry thinking the service was a waste of time and just made things worse. But the real problem is fact they never did any maintenance. Bad news travels fast and the person blames the service. But my guess would be this actually happens less than 1% of the time
For anyone looking for companies in the states that offer the exchange through the fill port. Some jiffy Lubes do have this machine and are willing to do it. Mine shop was aware of the process for jeeps and will do it as long as the jeep is under 100k on the transmission . Getting prices now ✌️
Red Line Synthetic D6 ATF - Viscosity @ 100° C - 6.4 cSt Viscosity @ 40° C 30.7 cSt Flash Point 249° C - The flash point is extremely high and great for long endurance races. Many positive comments from racers.
Did you reset the transmission ECU? I have a Discovery 4 (LR4) with the 8HP70 and it is recommended to reset the adaption values in the gearbox ECU after an oil change so it relearns all the shift points / clutch settings with the new fluid.
No I didn't... and I must admit in all the research and reading that I've done on the ZF transmission (which was alot) this is the first I've heard of it. Is that recommendation specifically from LAND ROVER?... because it definitely isn't from ZF as far as I know. I'm also curious does LAND ROVER recommended a fluid change?
@@jonh2408 Jon, googling various terms (adaption ZF 8 speed etc) there are a few hits, here is one www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html (first post step 16) but you need a diagnostic tool to do it (I have the IID tool) . I think LR have hinted at 150K miles but don't think that is 'official', think I prefer to follow the OEM's (ZF) recommendations instead.
@@millycarrington ya... thats certainly a very detailed description. The directions for achieving a proper fluid level look familiar and are on par with the ZF directions. The part about reseting the ecu is new to me. It makes me wonder what happens if you change fluid but didn't do that step?
@@millycarrington I will also say that using a scan tool on the chrysler products was something that people only did to get an accurate fluid temp. Which Is necessary (as I'm sure you know) to properly set the fluid level. However alot of people (myself included) just used the tranny temp display (if there vehicle had it) on the dash. Thereby foregoing the need for a scan tool.
Jon, I never make comments on the youtube. But for you I'll make the exception. Fantastic job. A wee longwinded but needed to be. Wife just picked up a 17 Pacifica and need info on tranny fluid change. Her's is a 9 speed but I believe same things apply. How's your Jeep doing? Again, thanks for all your hard work and research. I have a hard time believing Chrysler is telling folks Lifetime no service. Sounds like a crock of shite to me.
Appreciate the friendly word. The jeep is doing great. I'm at 170,000 km now so will be doing a follow up video showing the machine that does the "exchange" soon
You can, but there's a chance of not getting the fluid in the cooler/lines. And a chance of damaging the valve in the thermostatic bypass as the exchange machine "forces fluid through" with more pressure than your own pump
First of all thanks for the great video , the best about ZF 8 so far , I have a Ram 1500 2015 did a flush with the special machine with 130k in some special transfer Service ( live in Europe ) couldn’t find Ram dealer 2 years ago , now I have 205 k km on my ram and month ago started the shifting really bad , temperature is ok it’s not getting hot at all ,called the service again and asked wich oil they’ve used they said Ravenol because i didn’t asked for the lifeguard 8 from ZF , due the Covid i’m not able to travel to the Service back , but yesterday i’ve found on ebay kit with 7 litres of the ZF 8 oil and the pan , can’t find any servise with this flush machine where I live now , do you thing it’s gonna be ok if I just change the pan and oil without flushing the tran ? is it gonna help ? or It can go bad if the ZF oil mixes with the Ravenol ? any ideas ? thanks for help take care
Well if it ran fine on the Ravenol for that long.. I would think it unlikely that it caused the problem. Maybe look around and see if you can find a local oil change place with the other type of flush machine (like in the video). I mixed my fluid with the maxlife and it ran fine.
@@jonh2408 hi thanks for the answer, found one , filter 900 USD , oil 1liter 89 USD , and changing the oil they want to charge me another 1500 USD live in Switzerland it’s crazy the prices here , so i’m ordering the original ZF8 kit with the pan and 7 litres of oil for 230 USD form ebay and ask the local Service just to change the pan and oil and see what is gonna happen hope it’s gonna help take care
It's good... I changed it at about 105,000 km's and now have about 123,000 km's. Everything is the same for me. I know I've seen alot of forums/comments about how amazing the difference is. How it shifts "silky smooth" and gets better fuel economy. I haven't noticed anything like that with mine. It's all the same with the exception of it takes quite alot longer to reach operating temperature (which on my jeep is 93° C). In my mind that's an indicator of the original fluids worn ability to absorb heat. But ya still running great
Great Video Jon, from a fellow Canadian and hobby mechanic. After all of that, sounds like Great Can Oil change is the way to go :) Any complaints with the Valvoline yet, or does it seem to be good? Again, Thanks for taking the time and thorough vid!
Ya thanks for watching... ya the valvoline is still running fine. I know alot of people rave about how much "better" or smoother it shifts with valvoline. I didn't notice any difference in that regard. I did notice it takes alot longer to reach 93 C (which seems to be the temp it runs at). This would indicate ( to me at least) that the original fluids ability to absorb heat was definitely impacted. I see now lots of good reviews on that $30 pan i mentioned in the comments
@@jonh2408 Thanks for the Reply! That about settles it then.. take it in for a Valvoline flush... :) That'll be a lot easier than I had anticipated this was going to be, esp getting a FULL flush! Have a great weekend!
JL/JT owners… I highly suggest doing this change at or before its recommended interval. Every one I’ve seen has be super nasty. Just did mine and it was no different. My 2016 ram I never change in 366k miles. Never had an issue with it. Started hearing issues on my JLU at about 50k You need to do it 3 times to have mostly new fluid in it. I noticed immediate changes with the first one
Great video and good advice. I took a transmission repair course at a local tech school. The removal of the pan at every servicing was stressed for examining the amount of fine metal on the magnets and pan sump. Some minor shiny specs are expected from wear of your steel clutch plates. Also a gray paste may be found as settlement which are you clutch disc fibers. Excessive material, or larger materials, or bronze flags an impending unit failure the customer should know about.
I serviced my 19 BMW X3 at 50K miles with the ZF bottled fluid. Existing fluid came out almost clear with abnormal wear metals as your appeared. While someone might think I changed it early, disposing of fluid still with life left. To me I changed it at the correct time before the wear prevention properties of the fluid were depleted. This is to prevent any unnessary wear. Fluid also contains seal conditioners which keep the rubber lip seals in the clutch packs and accumulated pliable. These conditioners can be depleted before the fluid starts to darken.
I did a single drain and fill which took five quarts. 10K miles later unit is still functioning as new.
Thanks for all the tips. I've really been wanting to try the amsoil ATF as it has a great reputation. But the cost is very hard to justify as it's more than the lifeguard 8.
@@jonh2408 you have found the ZF8 fluid at a great price if it is less than Amsoil. I have been an Amsoil user for thirty years.
Jon, I sure do appreciate you sharing your very detailed and convincing information. I feel that I must commend you on this video and to put this into a simple statement this is one of the best DIY video I have ever seen.
Thanks for watching
I know I'm a bit late to this video. But I must say this is the most in depth video I have seen on this transmission. You are so specific and I love it. Thank you so much. I have learnt some serious valuable information.
Thank you... I'll make sue to let you know when I do a follow up
I don't own an 8 speed ZF but found your video to be a compelling review of the current dilemma in auto transmission service. You nailed it precisely when you stated the economic relationship totally drives what is and is not recommended for modern fluid applications. The nagging question is why have they engineered units that require such exacting precision when they have to know the average mechanic just hacks away at some of these jobs. I suspect the sealed unit labeling is to keep sloppy and untrained mechanics from doing more harm than good. Luckily modern fluids are up to the task if you don't push them too far. Thanks for sharing your detailed findings.
Thanks for watching
This is one of the best videos I've ever seen about ZF transmission.
Thanks a lot man.
Thanks for watching. Please share the video with others.
Crazy how much information is in this video... With a little editing you could make videos professionally full time... Awesome vid
Appreciate it, thanks for watching
I changed my transmission fluid in my 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 3.6l with Valvoline maxlife ATF at 80,000 miles. No problems yet.
If the hundreds of people I've heard from like you are any indication.... you'll never have any problems.
I just did that to my 200 S How is yours still holding up? My car's at 70,000
I just changed pan and fluid on my 2014 chrysler 300. 238k miles. I bought the car with 182k miles and previous owner never changed the fluid. I drove it for 56k miles but not hard and did experience some hesitation when hitting the gas medium to hard. Once i changed it and drove it around, what a difference. Very responsive and much more smoother. I also noticed about 3 to 3.5 qt that came out and i had a 6 quart pump that was nearly empty by the time i filled it back up and topped it off at 110 degrees. So i was probably low on fluid that whole time I had the car from the first owner. I plan on doing another pan and oil change after 20k miles or so. Definitely would recommend changing. 👍✌
Thanks for watching. Please share video if you get a chance.
By far the best information I was able to find on this subject, Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Very well done! I just did my BMW 535i with a new pan/filter from FCP and almost 4 liters of fluid. I am planning on doing 500 miles or so and than doing a fluid only change. Car has 105K miles on original fluid and I notice a significant difference in how much smoother the 8 speed shifts. Transmission was shifting fine but is definitely smoother now.. I used LiquiMoly Top Tec 1800 ATF
I wasn't able to find any info on the liquid moly... how much is it and how do you find it?
Huge help Jon thank you. Going to be using the PPE aluminum pan on my Ram. I am in the New York area of the USA . I don't have a Great Canadian Oil Change. So I need to figure out how to flush the system if possible. I really appreciate all the data and information you gave us . I know it was quite a bit of work. God Bless you my friend , excellent 👍🏻
I'm sure there are oil change places around there that have the same exchange machine. It's hard to imagine something being available in Canada and not the US
@jonh2408 I'm going to look around, thanks again for your help Jon
I'm considering either obtaining and modifying one of those thermostatic valves to stay open constantly, or buying a bypass kit for them, then temporarily installing that device to allow the flush, then reinstalling the thermostatic valve afterwards.
I know it sounds like a lot of extra work, but I'd kinda like to be able to flush out ALL the old fluid.
The absolute best video I have seen on service. Thanks so much . I needed this video !!!!
Thanks for watching
BMW X5 E70 LCi. Many thanks from South Africa. This is how it’s done! Very thorough of you hats-off👍👍👍
Thanks for watching
Hi I'm Ronny from Belgium.
I like your video.
What I wanted to say.
The two men with blue overalls are not from ZF, they are very good mechanics from Cologne (Germany) with their own UA-cam channel called Die Autodoktoren (the car doctors)
I'm really impressed with those guys. Real toppers.
Definitely worth a look. 👍🏼
Greetings from Belgium
Thanks for the info... appreciate that
Very detailed explanation of the different ZF fluids! I will only use the green ZF fluid when I do the transmission pan/filter, I will only use green ZF fluid! I can't believe how many people are mixing ZF fluid and red dexron type fluid!
Ya mixing 2 different fluids is not something I'd do in my vehicle
Great video, great info! Back in March (2024) I just bought a 2016 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7 Hemi with ~108,800 on it. Bought it down here in N. Idaho but it spent its life up in Edmonton/Red Deer area (kinda funny cuz I spent my highschool years up in that neck of the woods... Lacombe, if you know Alberta). Just approaching 119K now. I don't know much of its previous history so I've been wanting to do this so I know where it's at. Undecided about changing pan and filter or just fluid. Might just do fluid for now and decide on the other later. Appreciate all the useful info!
Eta... at about 37:45 talking about fill level, don't you just fill it to the level of the fill plug, til it begins to spill out? These transmissions don't have a dipstick to check fluid level I don't think... at least the Ram 1500s don't. So how else would you check fluid level?
@gerrymatheson4020 Ya, I've noticed that's trucks from Canada have been selling like hotcakes south of the border. You are correct about the fluid level. Just make sure the fluid temp is between 30 - 50c in order to get a proper reading. I put a link to instructions from ZF in the description (hopefully it's still working). I would also recommend if your not changing the pan then only use the ZF fluid. Other fluids are fine (like the valvoline I used), but I wouldn't mix them. Replace it all or just use lifegaurd 8
Did anyone find a shop in the US that will do this fluid exchange like the on in Canada mentioned in this video? Calling around, I can't find anyone what will touch it, even if I bring them the oil.
I must admit that question surprises me. It's not often you here about a product or service you can get in Canada but not the states. Lol, usually it's the other way around!
After some calling around I found Some jiffy lubes offer this service here in the states
Does the Great Canadian Oil Change place with the transmission machine have anything special relative to what Valvoline, Midas, Jiffy Lube ,... (i.e. auto shops in the USA) have to offer? Just trying to make sure if I pay for the service I am getting a better change than what I can do by hand
Have you found any service chains in the US I’m looking myself. Thanks in advance
I have a 2019 Ram 1500. Just passed 100k km and decided to service the transmission. I used all Mopar fluid and pan/filter assembly. Not much more complicated than any other transmission and definitely worth the hour and a half the service took. Whatever fluid you use just make sure it gets serviced, don't listen to the "lifetime fill" bs the dealership will tell you....
What did the Mopar pan cost where you live?
What does manual say?
Wow thats alot of miles on a 2019...I have a 2014 with barely 97,000 on it.
@@gregbloodworth6000 i have a 14 with 150k miles.
I recently installed a B&M extra capacity transmission pan on my 2021 Ram 1500. The fill procedure that Ram says to follow is dangerous. I will not get under my truck while someone puts the transmission in different gears. I filled it until it pours out of the hole. Took 6 quarts and I installed the plug. Truck drove fine on a 3200 mile road trip afterwards. I used Valvoline Max Life.
Thank you, this is essentially a public service. Genuinely thank you!
Thanks for watching.
Hello from Belgium !!!
I hope my english will be good enough ...
I plan to do the oil and filter change on my 2014 Ecodiesel WK2 (100 000 km) soon.
Your very detailed investigations helped me deciding ... not to rush into.
I would first look for a way to properly flush the cooler lines and radiator. Maybe by removing the pipes at the thermostatic vale ?
And perform both the same day with a pre-fill of the cooler side.
Of course it needs a complete warm-up to entirely fill the cooler circuit, then recheck the level as per instructions when back to recommended "cold" conditions.
Regards
Thanks for watching. If you can find a shop that has an "exchange machine," you don't need to worry about the temp. When I had mine done it worked fine. My vehicle was at full temperature when I got to the shop. So when the exchange started the cooler lines were open. Since they only exchange 1 liter at a time, the introduction of 1 liter of new fluid is not enough to reduce the temperature significantly. Add to that the vehicle is running while the exchange is happening, so that helps it not lose to much temp over the course of the 30 mins service.
Best video I've seen so far on the topic. The fluid is black like coffee which is worrying for a "lifetime" fluid fill. My understanding is that as the clutches wear, the transmission adjusts the clutch on/off time so you can get by without changing the fluid. Once the clutches are completely worn, you toss the transmission out.
Thanks for watching... thats the first I've heard about the clutches.... but could be. I know these transmissions are known for longevity
Thank you for taking the time to present such a detailed and thoughtful video. Much more comfortable with using Valvoline now. I have this 8HP70 in my Ram, which I've also just received the PPE aluminum pan. One thing to make very sure of with this transmission is to make sure it's level when filling. Did your oil exchange shop do that while it was being serviced? I almost wish I'd bought the OEM Mopar pan, just so I could measure the fluid out, and back in. Doing it that way, I would imagine it would be recommended to lift the vehicle to one side a little bit. Because you never know if the transmission would accept that same amount being added back, if there were a temperature difference. Someone may try to add back the precise amount, and it come dribbling back out of the fill hole before it's truly full? Unless it's refilled cold? Idk...
@sp1068 ya you definitely need to check level between the 30 - 50c that they specify. Thanks for watching
Thanks for you research, you rock made me comfortable with the change of my fluid 👊🏾 keep up the great work
Thanks for watching. There will be a follow up coming soon
18:15 What you came for
Fantastic video! Highly recommend anyone give this a watch when they have the time. Thank you!
Thanks for watching
Hello Mr. John. I hope you are well. Thank you very much for your video. Mr. John, my job is car service. I have a few questions for you. I would be very grateful if you could guide me. 1. Regarding automatic transmissions, VT and DCT, what is your recommendation for changing the transmission fluid in daily driving conditions, for example, driving in traffic and highways and driving under high pressure? After how many thousand kilometers is the car working?
2. If a car with 120 or 150 thousand kilometers comes to my garage to change the transmission fluid, is it possible to damage the transmission by changing the transmission fluid?
3. Regarding cars with working conditions Above, is it possible to change half of the gearbox oil with new gearbox fluid instead of replacing all the gearbox fluid in order to reduce the possible damage to the gearbox?
4. Usually, in what kilometers of the car's operation is there a possibility of damage to the gearbox oil cooling radiator and coolant infiltration into the gearbox?
Respect and best wishes.
Great information applicable for any auto transmission.Thinking of doing the tran dain and fill method at every 50,000kms interval to keep it in good shaped. Looks like measure how many liters drained and refill with the same amount should be sufficient x2. Good point about the ZF plastic drainage plug may break or strip. Alternative option for DIY, use a hand pump to suck fluid out via the fill hole ( for both drainage and fill) similar to the machine pump method you mentioned in your vedio.
Ya thanks for watching... I would highly Recommend the fluid "exchange" machine. It's quick, clean and gets 95% of the fluid. Also worth checking out the $30 replacement pan i mention in the comments... I have read alot of reviews on it now and they have all been good.
This is the most informative transmission video ever. I decided for the Valvoline. I bought an aluminum pan for $110 off Ebay. The filter is changeable once the pan is off, but I have no idea what to order. I asked the ebay seller. I imagine that most of the solids in the system come from the first few thousand miles. I don;t know if I will change the filter again. One bit of advice for fluid changes only... Shift into reverse to backflush the filter for 5 seconds, shift to park, and turn off engine.
Thanks for the tip... do you have an 8hp70 transmission?
David what makes you think reverse would backflush the filter ? that would imply the pump runs backward rather than some solenoid changing the path....
Yes that's a misconception. Whatever fluid is being 'backflushed' is simply traveling through the torque converter. You could just leave it in neutral for the same effect.
Excellent Video. Thanks for creating - it will help people get their mind around this issue that has been clouded with a lot of misinformation.
Thanks... that was the goal...it ended up being alot longer than intended.
Thank you... I made another one showing a coolant system flush... check it out if your interested.
ua-cam.com/video/e0_FPyw5Bsc/v-deo.html
just as a follow up.. So was talking to a member in another forum about servicing options for the 8 speed transmissions. He mentioned he had bought a replacement pan for his vehicle for $29. I immediately thought he must be mistaken as i had looked far and wide for pans not long ago for my own GC. In my search I had found some pans online for around $110ca but the reviews on them were terrible. In some cases the gasket looked cheap, or they didn't come with magnets. I was very skeptical and kept thinking (and hoping since i just paid $170 for mine) that he has the wrong pan, or it's gotta be just the gasket...ect. However much to my surprise I was able to find the pan online and it looks identical to the dorman pan i ordered from rockauto. It has the same thick rubber gasket and even appears to have a metal drain plug (rather than a plastic one although it only appears in pic so can't actually confirm that). He says it arrived as ordered and appears to be as described... not flimsy or weak. I just thought I would share the info since the cost of the pan is what makes alot of people think twice about doing a service.
He is going to follow up after installing it but I'm definitely cautiously optimistic about seeing a pan available in this price range!
www.ebay.com/itm/68233701AA-Auto-Transmission-Oil-Pan-For-Ram-1500-Chrysler-300-with-8HP70-845RE/264645659904?hash=item3d9e1c4d00%3Ag%3AJrsAAOSwAUBeU2wE
Any more info on how it came out , how was the gasket holding up? Did it have all 4 magnets?
@@joeroe2839 he says it did have all 4 magnets... haven't heard on the gasket.. I think I'll order one myself so I can do a review on it. I mean for 30 bucks not much to lose. My concern is more centered on the filter material... I would like to compare it to the replaceable filter in the dorman pan (from rock auto) I used in my video
@@jonh2408 yea true not much to lose lol and yea ur right ima go ahead and order , thing is lost all my fluid in my 14 sport 300 my ac clutch caught my oil cooler line and made a hole in it, so idk how much to put in, also do u think it ve alright if I mix it with the factory z fluid red/z fluid
@@joeroe2839 not sure if you had a chance to watch the whole video but before I learned about the exchange machine I did a few drain and fills using valvoline. Using the maxlife with the old fluid was fine in my 8hp70... have also seen alot videos and comments from people who drain out (approx 40 - 50%) their original fluid and refill with an aftermarket one (mostly valvoline or amsoil) and have never heard of a problem....
BTW if you want to read the detailed report on the $30 pan (including some pics) the forum is called "RAM 1500 DIESEL FORUM" and the post is called $30 replacement pan.
Yes sir I went tru the whole vid i was just makin sure or if it would be a problem but yea ima mix it then and go from there thanx u sir and keep up the good work and talkin your time to make em 😎🤛🏼👌🏽
I am part way through this and was watching to see if the pan had the removable filter, I'm also from Canada and didn't notice they sold the pan with removable filter and just ordered the filter for the updated pan which I obviously can't install. My oil is very dark at 200k so I may recommend to the parents after I fill it that the next time they go for a flush at 300k rather than change the very expensive mopar oil I just bought that is non returnable haha. Very informative video and I wish I had spent a few hours looking online before I pulled the pin thinking I have what I need. Thanks!
Thanks for watching... glad the video helped. Please share it if you can
Que tan ,este fluido si lo puedo utilizar en una Jeep grand cherokee límited 2015??
Great video. For what's it worth, if nobody has mentioned it yet, ZF doesn't manufacture their own fluid - they build transmissions. From my research, Shell makes the fluid for ZF, which explains why Shell sells it in bulk to Audi.
So lifeguard 8 is a product of shells?
@@jonh2408 From my understanding, Shell makes it for ZF. ZF probably provided specs to Shell, and Shell developed the lubricant mix for production originally. Inasmuch, they probably also package it for the manufacturers for resale and use in their shops. This also explains why the Shell product is not being resold under their Quaker State and Pennzoil brands, in deference to ZF and auto manufacturers.
@garybittner interesting... thanks for the insight. That also coincides with the product specs being identical for lifeguard 8 and the shell ML - 12108.
Very well detailed and helpful thank you so much for taking time to do it.😊
Thanks for watching
I will be changing mine soon. The aluminum pan (PPE) interests me for my Ram 1500 3.6v6 w/ 3.21 rear gears. I am not so brave as to use the Max Life just yet, though I use it in everything else. With tall gears, these 8 spds shift alot. Funny, Max Life & Lifeguard 8 smell almost identical! The dark in the ZF is likely friction modifier. Great video!
If you do try the PPE pan please let me know how it worked out. Total cost, how long it took to arrive and what difference (if any) you noticed in temperatures. I also agree that the fluid "specs" only show a portion of the full picture. Things like friction modifiers and other additives might be be represented in the fluid specs
I shall let you know, Jon. Again, very nice video. You did alot of legwork. I will let you know on the PPE pan. Keep us posted on your Max life fluid experience. Thanks.
@@jonh2408 Well, I finally did my pan/fluid on my '18 Ram 3.6 4x4 at 49K mi. Alligator Performance gave me the best deal on a PPE pan for $263. 4.5 qts came out, 6.5 of Lifeguard 8 went in. The factory bolts, spacers & gasket were cleaned and used to install. Lemme know is you have questions. So far, it seems to run about 5-6° cooler than stock.
Nope it's the glow shit they put in it so the insurance company will be able to detect the difference in oils, the zf oil glows in the dark.. that's the only difference between these oils...zf fluid glows in the dark....that's the only difference..it's purely for leaks. To see ..and insurance reasons only
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. There is soooo much conflicting information out there, but you presented the facts in writing. Awesome Awesome Awesome video!!!! Thanks you.....
Thanks for watching
F¥€KING A+ I bought a 2016 Ram 1500 yesterday with 100 000miles on not knowing the dealership can’t service the transmission so just like you I like my stuff maintained. I got everything at O’Reilly’s. Fixing to do it tomorrow before I head out to Florida 👍🏻👍🏻
Nice, glad I could help
How did you do the procedure with moving through the gears on ramps? The video's I've seen with people following the procedure include the wheels turning and getting it into 2nd gear.
You can manually select 2nd gear (at least on my GC) and the directions online from ZF don't say anything about that. I know what your referring too as I saw several people doing that as well when doing my research for the video. I'm not sure where people got those instructions from (possibly from dodge) but I followed the ones from ZF, which just says to go through all the gears P, R, N, D - 1ST & 2ND. It doesn't say anything about actually needing the wheels to turn. So I just kept foot on break and went into each gear for 10 seconds
@@jonh2408 Good to know, thanks.
If the transmission is sealed where do they place the fluid exchange machine suck fill tube?
So the term "sealed" is just wording used by the car company to discourage people from playing around with it. Essentially it just means there's no dipstick for checking fluid level. But there is still a fill and drain plug located under the car.
Thank you very much! Maybe I missed it but exactly how much fluid should I put back in the transmission after replacing the pan. 2017 Grand Cherokee Laredo....
Put back in the same amount you drained out... also there are instructions online for checking the fluid level properly.
The link for the instructions is in the description (hopefully still working)
a couple oils missed was the Gulf western SYN-TS and Penrite BMV ATF oils
Thanks for info.... I didn't know pentrite made a low viscosity fluid and I've never heard of the other one. Who makes Gulf western?
@@jonh2408 Gulf Western is Aussie owned. They make their own fluids
@@Trebior1 ok... whats the price per liter of there fluid?
Also are you sure it's compatible with the zf 8 speed transmission?... when I looked up the product it lists the zf 6 speed and some others but not the zf 8 speed.
@@jonh2408 hmm I looked at the data sheet for gulf western. And it didn't specify it. But the fluid properties look good. When you search it on the Gulf Western Fluid finder it specifies that. Can pick up a 4L for $15 or 20 for $115
Top class information and great presentation. Perhaps you can explain how a multi vehicle ATF
can conform to the 19 Mercedes specifications.
The same multi vehicle claims to confirm to 6 Hyundai specifications. Hyundai service bulletins state that only two of the fluids listed are backward compatible. What is your take on this.
Well I can't speak to specific Hyundai vehicles. But I will say the ZF 8 speed transmission is one of the most widely used on the market. Dozens of models across several manufacturers use it (or a closely related version of it). So if you have a fluid that meets the spec for the ZF 8 speed, then that fluid will cover dozens of different cars. It's important to remember that car manufacturers want to maximize profits. So if they can re-brand (or re-blend) their own version of lifeguard 8 and sell it for a much higher price, they will. And of course their going "discourage/diswaid" you from buying elsewhere. When I asked my local Jeep dealership if I should use Lifeguard 8 fluid, they told me "no, you should only use mopar 8&9 speed fluid". The girl on the phone had no idea that the transmission was made by ZF, no idea that lifeguard 8 was actually the fluid recommended (not to mention the exact same thing as mopar 8&9).. she just knows what she's supposed to tell me as a Chrysler employee.
Excellent Video. Thanks for creating, I am writing to seek your advice regarding my Jeep Grand Cherokee 2020. Currently, my vehicle has covered 83,000 kilometers, and the existing warranty is set to expire at 100,000 kilometers or in September 2025. I am considering extending the warranty to 200,000 kilometers or until September 2027.
However, I am facing conflicting information from my dealership in Qatar. They assert that the transmission oil is considered “lifetime,” and any replacement would fall under my responsibility. On the other hand, I reached out to Jeep Chrysler in the United States, and they assured me that changing the transmission oil would not impact my warranty.
Despite this assurance, I am aware that this verbal confirmation is not an official guarantee, especially since I will be signing a responsibility paper with my dealership regarding the transmission oil change. This situation has left me feeling uncertain about the best course of action.
I kindly request your guidance on how to proceed. Should I adhere to the dealership’s stance, or can I confidently replace the transmission oil without jeopardizing my warranty? Your insights would be greatly appreciated.
also there is an update on this document (List of lubricants TE-ML
)11aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf "ZF
recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or
with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals."
Ya thats a tough one. If you can extend your warranty to 200,000km's that's a nice option (definitely not available here in canada). If your planning on keeping your jeep long term than I would definitely do a change (especially in a hot climate like Qatar). Maybe you could do a change but use the lifetime 8 fluid so it's the same as original. That way the dealership would have no way of knowing you did it.
Can you post the link for the zf service manual you had open or send me the ZF PDF ? I have a ZF 8HP75
It's in the description
Do you have a link to that video showing the ZF technicians talking about the servicing of the transmissions? I don’t see any link to it on the list. Thanks!
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so the 2012 bmw has the same transmission, i was also eyeing Valvoline, same trans but on different maker shouldnt be an issue?
It's been fine on my grand cherokee, still running great
How has it been running with the aftermarket fluid?
Good am currently driving from Vancouver to Fort mcmurray and running great. 159k now so will be changing fluid soon Will make an update video and send sample to Blackstone
Good to know, waiting for the video:)
Jon, I have a 2020 Dodge Challenger 6.4 with a ZF 8 HP, I drive spirited and go to the track approx 1 to 2 x per month. Wich fluid in your opinion is the best quality and performance. I'm thinking Amsoil, or Redline. I'm also interested in getting the Aluminum pan. I'm in Miami Florida and need the extra cooling. Right now I'm at 30k and plan to do this at 35k or sooner. Also does the Aluminum pan have the 4 magnets, and exchangeable filter ? Also are the viscosity with the Amsoil or Redline the same ?
Thanks for the great video. Extremely informative.
Oh yeah , and if you can recommend a better fluid for my ZF brand LSD Differential that came with my car. The Mopar fluid cost $40.00 Dollars per quart. Takes 1.7 on the diff, if I remember correctly, and I'm sure it's not as good as Redline or Amsoil.
So I went with the valvoline on mine because of the amount of reviews/reports of people having used it. Also because I don't do much heavy towing or demanding driving. That being said my second choice would be the amsoil. It isn't much cheaper but the limited amount of reviews I was able to find on it were all positive. With the track racing and just general driving style on that kind of vehicle I think its worth the investment. I might suggest asking around to other chrysler/dodge guys at the track (challengers/trackhawks/demons) what there general consensus is. Find out what they've been using. I'll look into the diff fluid as I've never thought about that one before.
Some really great info on this debated topic. Curious how that replacement machine works... seems like it would still end up just mixing like your drain and fill process does. They don't drop the pan even?
I will be going for my next change soon and will make a video at the shop. But no, they don't drop the pan. I think the reason it works so well is they use 15 liters of new fluid and the capacity of the system is around 7 liters. So they pump twice as much new fluid through as it could hold. I probably had some advantage because when I got mine done I had done 3 drain and fills already, so the fluid was already much newer/cleaner from the start.
I have a 2020 Jeep Gladiator 8 speed auto. Mopar recommends to use the "Mopar 8 & 9 Speed ATF" for the Transmission fluid change and "Mopar ATF + 4" for the transfer case fluid change. Is there even a difference between the two ? Can I just use the "ATF + 4" for both the transmission and the transfer case. The "8 & 9 Speed ATF" is like $33 but the "ATF + 4" is $10. I'm pretty sure they're both the same thing basically. Thoughts ?
No they are definitely NOT the same. But you can use valvoline maxlife which is much cheaper
Can you mix the fluid Amsoil with ZF 8.. doing a trans filter you don’t get it all out
I wouldn't mix the 2 fluids purposely or equally. If you are getting a service done with a flush machine I think it's fine. Having the small remnants of old fluid ½L mix with 8L of new fluid is something I'd be comfortable with myself
In Canada there are people with knowledge. I am happy to live here
Thank you.. if you own a grand cherokee consider subscribing... there will be more WK2 vids coming
very helpful in all aspects. Thanks a lot. An Audi Q5 in Malaysia with a ZF 8 speed transmission thanks you too :-)
Appreciate it... thanks for watching
The PPE pan was just a bit over $300 (US). I bought a Felpro gasket for it at rock auto which was @ $12 I've already pressed the gasket into the channel around the PPE pan. The PPE pan has a deeper area where the filter sits. There is one round magnet which is @ 1" in diameter in that "deeper section". That's how they get another quart or two in the total capacity. From what I've learned on a doge ram forum is that the ZF transmission needs to be leveled. That is how an accurate fill level is achieved. I got the rear wheels up about 9" to achieve this. I used a torpedo level on the transmission rails until i got it right. Tomorrow I am doing the work. Also getting the old pan out isn't a problem. On some videos the guys loosened the three mounting bolts. then put a jack with a piece of wood under the transmission. They had to raise it about an inch to get the new PPE pan in place. Then removed the jack and tightened the bolts. And of course Chrysler/Dodge designed the original pan drain bolt directly over an exhaust crossover pipe! The PPE pan drain plug in a different place so the exhaust pipe isn't in the way. The replacement filter is @ $36
Thanks for all the info on the PPE pan. What fluid did you go with, and have you noticed any difference in temps since switching to the aluminum pan?
Excellent excellent excellent video sir i commend you on basically writing a technical paper on this transmission!
Thanks for watching
Great video Jon I did my own last year on my 2016 Dodge Charger Scatpack at 113K. My question about Great Canadian Oil Change is if you bring them your own oil how much is needed for the full flush and does it get all the oil out? Have you had any issues since changing to the Valvoline?
They used 15 liters when they flushed mine and it was very clean when they were done (as you saw in the video). The capacity of the entire system is around 8.7 liters. When I brought mine in there I had already done 3 drain and fills so my fluid was already somewhat "cleaner" than original. How much impact that fact had on the end result I can't say, but given that 15L is twice the total capacity I'd say it would come out pretty clean. It's still running fine with the maxlife... when I do the next fluid change (at 150,000 km's) I will send a sample to Blackstone and see what the report is on Valvoline with 50,000 km's on it
@@jonh2408 Thanks for the info Jon
Hey why dont you just disconnect the transmission oil cooler line at the radiator and drain it from there as you're refilling the fluid at the pan so it pushes out all the old fluid instead of mixing it with the old and re draining it.
@almeal406 well the thermostatic bypass valve sits in the line between the tranny and cooler so it would stay closed (unless you could find a way to heat the fluid to 175F) so the fluid wouldn't flush any of the lines. I guess you could wait until the cooler gravity drained but that might take awhile. Plus the system only flows in 1 direction so you wouldn't get any of the fluid on the return side of the cooler
@@jonh2408 is there a way to bypass that valve? Is it on the cooler feed hose? Or built into the transmission?
@almeal406 it's in the line between the tranny and cooler (at least on mine it is)
GREAT VIDEO!! Thanks for making this video, it is very detailed and VERY helpful. I've never seen a chart showing all the fluids specs like that.
Thanks for watching... ya you can find stuff online if you dig hard enough.
So regarding the viscosities are higher indexes better, are higher viscosity at higher temperatures preferred?
Well it depends on the specific type of transmission your vehicle uses and the temperatures your using it in. So water has a much lower viscosity than maple syrup. In other words it flows easier. If you heat maple syrup, it flows easier to meaning its viscosity lowers. I know the ZF transmissions use a lower viscosity fluid (maybe because if it flows easier you get better fuel economy) and run at a higher temperature than most. So to answer your question - NO higher viscosity is not preferred (as that would mean a thicker less flowable fluid) but higher temperature is. So the hotter your transmission fluid gets the lower viscosity it has, and it's designed that way for reasons (probably several) that only the engineers would know
hello jon good video, excellent information! .... you know, I have a classic ram 1500 pickup 3.6 liters gasoline, 2018, I am worried about its transmission temperature ZF 8 speeds, it registers 190 degrees Fahrenheit with normal use in the city center The strange thing is that it has 8000 miles, should I change the oil ??? .... Thanks for your explanation ... Greetings from Chile South America!!
Hey thanks for watching... as I mentioned in the video these transmissions seem to run warm. My grand cherokee with the 5.7L runs at 93C normally as well. I think its a good idea to change your fluid on a regular basis... but your temps are normal
No mine runs that all the time, and mines only has 38 thousand miles...now if it was 200 and over ,then I would change the trans oil
I know this is an older video... But im about to do this job on my 2015 Durango RT. Do you know if the PPE pan has magnets? If so how many? Thanksm
ppepower.com/en-ca/products/transmission-pan-heavy-duty-cast-aluminum-jl-jt-wrangler-850re?variant=43838501552371
It says in here that it foes have magnets, even though there not visible in pic
My 2015 ram 1500 is leaking trans fluid out of the front of the engine block right where the fan is connected to the engine. Thought it was power steering fluid but i just learned that my truck has electric power steering. And advice? The fluid is thin and pink
Are you sure it's tranny fluid?... pink definitely isn't the correct color for mopar tranny fluid (should be dark green). Sometimes the coolant can look orange/pinkish
@@jonh2408 yup i discovered its a water pump leak! Thanks for response!
I have a lifetime warranty on my Ram. I guess I could just let the fluid go until the transmission had issues but I like you are reluctant to do that. But when I do change the fluid, I should stay with Lifeguard 8/Mopar or a fluid that looks very similar.
Wow... lifetime warranty... I didn't know that was even an option. It certainly isn't in canada... sounds great though
I just changed the oil pan and fluid on my 14 Wk2. Found two big chunks of metal!! Make sure you change your transmission oil!!!! Got a new transmission installed at 100K miles. Now at 168 and it’s starting to kick again. Tried getting the transmission oil changed by the dealer and they didn’t recommend it… that’s bs! there’s no such thing as life time oil.
Was the first transmission change covered under warranty?... I'm not surprised to hear the dealership didn't want to change the fluid. Although some would be happy to do it, and take $1200 from you in the process. I am surprised to hear about your tranny problems as the zf transmissions have a good to great reputation (depending which one you end up with). Is your WK2 a V6 or V8?. Do you do alot of towing? Was there alot of smaller particles on your magnets along with the bigger chunks?
Nice work... after watching this I'll be getting the "exchange" done like you did last
the exchange is definitely a really good option... fast, clean and cost effective
this was very comprehensive and very good! Thanks. I am planning on changing my oem pan to the PPE aluminum pan on my 2015 dodge ram 1500 with the 5.7L By the way do you know of any American shops that do that fluid exchange?
I don't... but if the fluid exchange machine is available here in Canada, then it would surely be available in the US. I'm curious to know what the filter setup on the aluminum pan is like, whether it has 4 magnets. If you could let me know what the pan cost you and how hard it was to find a gasket for it. And if what difference (if any) you noticed about your operating temperature, I'd appreciate it. And thanks for watching
Is the filter in the OEM pan not removable? I ask because I'm seeing filter kits on the internet. Thanks. Oh, and amazing tutorial, btw.
Thanks for watching... the filter is not removable on the original pan. At least not on anyone ive come across.
Soooo asking the experts. BMW 2011 X3 about to hit 200k Miles. She shifts great and I only bring her out for the winter. (winter car) Thoughts on changing the tranny fluid? tks! I"m thinking no...
I would, but do the exchange machine that doesn't "pressure" fluid through the system. And definitely change your pan and filter
@@jonh2408 awesome. Appreciate the reply. 🤙
Walmart sent me dorman 265-853 pan which has 2 magnets? I think it will be fine but next changed getting the 265-850 i have a 2013 dodge charger.
Hmm... interesting I didn't know you could get those kind of auto parts from Walmart. How much did it cost you and what was the gasket quality like?
@@jonh2408 $120 usd. Gasket seemed great. Pan fit perfect but only 2 magnets. I went and looked again and saw they had the 4 magnet one for 7$ more. Great video by the way. I also used valvoline same as u. The bottle actually says compatible with zf lifeguard etc im not worried about a full flush. How has your pan held up?
@Sliknik_IE ya good so far... im at 150,000 km now and was thinking about trying the amsoil on this change. The vavoline has done great just curious to try the amsoil product as it has so many great reviews. This time I won't change my filter, I'll just change fluid. Then at 200,000 I'll remove my pan, replace just the filter (clear the magnets) and change fluid. I feel like you should only need to change filter every 100,000 km
How is this pan and fluid combo doing? I bought a cheap Ebay pan over a year ago and filled with Valvoline MV ATF. The gasket pinched and bulged during final torque, eventually seeping and dripping under full throttle loads, it's been almost 30k miles so I'm going to replace what I'm hoping is just a garbage gasket. Curious if the Dorman 265850 set from Rock Auto solves the problem.
Thanks,
Tim
Ya the dorman one is doing fine. There was talk of one on here that was $30. I was of course suspicious of it at that price. But the little feedback I did hear on it was good. I think its in one of my comments. But ya the dorman one has been good. Will do another video at 150k showing the fluid exchange (with fluid samples) machine at great canadian. Then another video at 200k where I replace the "replaceable filter" on the dorman pan.
@@jonh2408 bought an OEM gasket seal just in case, many people complaining of these leaking too.
The OEM, Original ZF pan I got from Autopartway doesn't have any magnets. Only the pan, filter and a set of screws.
Well then it's not an oem pan
@@jonh2408 The part IS original, made in Germany.
@@luganova4574 well the ZF pans come with magnets... so not sure what to make of that
Hello
Very good video with a lot of information.
Looking on the data sheet with all fluids details in comparison and knowing that zf is a semisyntetic oil, Motul a full synthetic for example.
My question is, technically, Motul will be a better oil than zf, looking as well at the viscosities values at 40°, 100° and the viscositiy index?
Thanks
I'm honestly not knowledgeable enough to make that call... but from what I hear motul is a very good oil
@@jonh2408 Thank you!
just a small correction, at 7:03 the guy actually said in german "Einhundert Zwanzigtausend km" which means "120.000 km" , translation is just bad there at least
Nice video! This matter is truly polemic all around the world - it would be so much easier if the manufacturers followed ZF instructions on their service intervals. I think in a near future we’re going to see lots of broken transmissions due to lack of maintenance - and this will lay down on used cars price and reliability.
Anyway, the video sections were nicely chosen. Congrats!
Ya based on forum content it is definitely a divisive topic. Thanks for watching
@@jonh2408 If I do just a filter change and refill with the maxlife on my 2017 Ram (8HP70) with 155,000 miles will it hurt to mix the maxlife with the ZF Lifeguard 8 fluid?
@@bonniegoutremout1469 It didn't affect my vehicle mixing the fluids. I'd highly recommend checking around for a shop that has an "exchange machine" if you want to get all new fluid.
Really need your help. I have an Audi A6 2007 quattro with s-line. Transmission is 6HP19A but cant tell which color fluid is. Is it zf 6 or zf 8 that i need? The chart you show has both of them listed!?!?
The chart I show in my video shows fluids for the ZF 8 speed transmissions. The transmission in your car is a ZF 6 speed. Don't worry about the color of the fluid. Just make sure whatever fluid you use is compatible to your transmission. The fluids will list online (or on the jug itself) what transmissions it covers.
@@jonh2408 yes. Above the chart it shows the zf6 but for thr 6HP19A. It shows it works eith both zf 6 and zf8 fluid
@DebtFreeCars well on rockauto.com it lists valvoline maxlife as a fluid... along with several others. You are correct it lists the 8 speed fluid (despite the fact yours is a 6 speed). I would just use maxlife if it were me. But you could also check with your local parts store (Napa, Auto parts plus) or as a last resort the AUDI dealership (although they'll likely tell you only to use their fluid at an extortionate rate.
Could I ask a simple question. When did you get the after Great Canadian oil change sample? It just seems too good to be true that it could get so clear if it was mixing with the entire system.
So the video might seem a little confusing as it's not actually filmed in chronological order. I did 3 drain and fills replacing around 3-4 liters each time. Then I became aware of the Great Canadian option. The last sample was taken immediately after the service was complete. They used 15 liters of maxlife and that's what the fluid looked like when complete. They cracked my drain plug to get me the sample. So the vehicle had not been driven yet when that sample was taken, but in fairness the vehicle is running for the entire service. This means that for the entire 45 mins your own tranny pump is circulating fluid. So I would think over that period of time the fluid would fully mix together from all nooks and crannies. I suppose the easiest way to tell would be to crack the drain plug now that I've driven 10k and check it out
@@jonh2408 Thanks for the reply. It just seemed too good to be true (but I an a life long cynic), Do you know if the cooling valve opened during the process? The engine and transmission were obviously not working hard but also were not being cooled by moving. Ie did the process replace the oil in the cooler or does it just do a better job of replacing the oil circulating within the transmission?
If the cooler oil is as good as the sample then that is a truly amazing process.
I commend you for an excellent, well researched and informative video. you will save a lot of people who would like their transmission to last beyond its first oil change from being ripped off by the manufacturer. I think you plan of 50k oil and 100k for the filter will be a great strategy.
@@davebrown6552 So the drive to great canadian was about 15 mins for me. Upon arrival my tranny temp (according to the gauge on my dash) was around 60 Celsius. My normal "operating temp" once fully warmed up is 93 Celsius. When the service was complete I do recall the temp was around 80 degrees. This was too warm to properly check fluid level (which according to the instructions from zf) should be done between 30 - 50 Celsius. I drove home and came back the next day to get that done. Whether hitting 80 was enough to make the thermostatic bypass valve open I'm not sure. I'm also not sure how much fluid the cooler and lines hold 🤔. If you really wanted to ensure it did I would recommend driving around until you reach you max temp just before going in for the service. Or I guess you could rev up your engine during the 45 min service to try and get the temp to climb more quickly. When you go back the next day to get your level checked you could have them pull a quick sample to see what it looks like after driving around for a night.
Thank you for this wonderful thorough video
Thanks for watching
Underrated video, thanks for this!
Thanks for watching
Hello. Febi bilstein atf 3+ 8 longlife it's a good oil for the zf 45?
I'm not sure... its the first time I've heard of this brand. There does seem to be alot of information available about it.
Dude,, You rock! GREAT REVIEW!!
Thanks... appreciate it
So my 2018 300 has 60k on it, question for you? Some shops say they can just drain and fill it without changing the drain out, so 3 Quarts come out, is that ok to do just to get me to 100k, at that point I would change the pan and do the complete service
I assume your talking in miles, and ya thats better than doing nothing (which is what alot of people do). But TBH you could do that yourself with basic tools (literally a socket and the Allen key for the drain plug). Then buy the manual pump (around $10) that screws onto the top of 1 liter bottles. You could do it yourself in minutes for pretty cheap. How much is the shop gonna charge you?
@@jonh2408so sorry about the delay, my shop says about 200!bucks if they use zf fluid, but i was looking at royal purple ATF and it say it is compatible with zF on the bottle, would you be comfortable using the fluid? Thanks again
@jasonwallace6945 My only recommendation would be to use the mopar fluid so that you're not mixing different fluids. I used the valvoline, but that was because I was planning to replace all the fluid. Personally I wouldn't want to mix different products, but that's just me.
Your video helped a ton! Thank you again!
Thanks for watching... there will be a follow up video coming soon.
@@jonh2408 Looking forward to it! I am also in Canada... I have jugs of MaxLife on my shelf for my other family vehicles. Looking forward to hearing how it's been doing in your 8 speed!
I have searched HOURS on line concerning the ZF torque converter oil flush. I’ve found Nothing. Why is there no info on how to get the oil out of the torque converter when doing the oil change? What do you suggest? Thanks for your vid.
The flush machine they used on my vehicle gets it because the vehicle is running the entire time. So your pump is constantly moving the fluid through. The only other thing that I could think of (and I'm not sure how well it would actually work) would be to park the vehicle on a downward slope, pull the drain plug and leave it out overnight. Hopefully alot more of it would get drained with gravity.
Concerning my 2021 jeep gladiator Rubi with the ZF 8HP trans oil pan, there is no drain plug.
@@kevinmcelheran4489 Really?.... is it an 8hp70?... or is it something made specifically for the Gladiator
@@jonh2408 good question. I wasn’t able to see any stamp on the side of the tranny so I went to the book under the oil spec use. It just says use ZF 8-9 oil.
Back history: I bought it new Nov 2020. I had asked the dealership to check all oil levels including diffs, trans case and transmission as in my previous vehicle -2017 Toyota Tacoma, all those levels were low from the factory (transmission was half filled) I didn’t know till I did my own inspection 16k later and was pissed.
This time, I asked and they said they did it. I got it home and did all the steps to check the trans level and it was down 1/2 litre. But meanwhile, as I was underneath looking around the pan, there is no drain plug.
@@kevinmcelheran4489 ya thats weird.... according to what I read the tranny is a ZF 850RE (which means it's the chrysler version of the original zf design). The only thing I could think of is to buy an aftermarket pan that has a drain plug. Does it still have the fill plug?
kiddy corner... where are you from?
@FreakBob871 vancouver island BC
This is so informative!
I tried hard to find something good explained as u did.
I passed 159,000 KM without change.
I live in Dubai (so hot weather),
Is it fine to go and change? I am Very hesitant although i check oil condition on white tissue and seems nut burnt or black.
Your only at 100,000 miles... I would definitely change it... but change the pan too so you can get a new filter and magnets
@@jonh2408 thanks for prompt response!
What about flush on stages like, 2 quart each couple weeks , the 3rd stage to change oil along with filters?
Is it possible in this way to not wake up the genie? Trying to avoid any damages ..
@@ahmedzu3775 ya I think that would be fine... that jeep must be fun as fuck in Dubai... is it quadra drive 2?
@@jonh2408 yea its quadra drive ii , its very heavy duty and more fun in deserts,
But thing is weather 49c nowadays, you cant have that fun ,
I am not sure if i can maintain the fluid change as the Trans. Temp. Is Always 90 lol
@@ahmedzu3775 don't worry... I live in canada and my tranny fluid is always 93 Celsius as well.... even in -30...lol
In the US, at least, many shops are getting away from flushes--allegedly for fear of damaging a transmission.
Ya the fear of dislodging/relocating debris into the mapping ducts. Personally i think this happens VERY RARELY. If you consider the number of flushes done every year compared to the number that result in problems its miniscule. I think in most cases, someone who has never serviced their transmission starts getting rough shifts or some other symptom. In an attempt to solve the problem, they decide to now do maintenance they should've done long ago. The transmission fluid with high mileage has more metallic debris than normal due to lack of changing it ever. By removing this debris the plates slip easier because the new "clean" fluid has less friction. Or the flush pushes/pressures debris into ducts causing harsher shifts. The customer leaves angry thinking the service was a waste of time and just made things worse. But the real problem is fact they never did any maintenance. Bad news travels fast and the person blames the service. But my guess would be this actually happens less than 1% of the time
@@jonh2408 I agree. It's like quitting smoking after decades and then complaining when you can't fully regain lung function. Thanks, brother.
For anyone looking for companies in the states that offer the exchange through the fill port. Some jiffy Lubes do have this machine and are willing to do it. Mine shop was aware of the process for jeeps and will do it as long as the jeep is under 100k on the transmission . Getting prices now ✌️
Nice. Jiffy Lubes are pretty common so should be easy for most people.
Thank you! I was searching through the comments for this. I'll go talk to my local Jiffy Lube and see what they can do for me.
thank you for summing up all your research and share with us
Thanks for watching
Red Line Synthetic D6 ATF - Viscosity @ 100° C - 6.4 cSt Viscosity @ 40° C 30.7 cSt Flash Point 249° C - The flash point is extremely high and great for long endurance races. Many positive comments from racers.
Ya I wish red line was easier
to find in Canada. Seems like a great products.
Did you reset the transmission ECU? I have a Discovery 4 (LR4) with the 8HP70 and it is recommended to reset the adaption values in the gearbox ECU after an oil change so it relearns all the shift points / clutch settings with the new fluid.
No I didn't... and I must admit in all the research and reading that I've done on the ZF transmission (which was alot) this is the first I've heard of it. Is that recommendation specifically from LAND ROVER?... because it definitely isn't from ZF as far as I know. I'm also curious does LAND ROVER recommended a fluid change?
@@jonh2408 Jon, googling various terms (adaption ZF 8 speed etc) there are a few hits, here is one www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic141425.html (first post step 16) but you need a diagnostic tool to do it (I have the IID tool) . I think LR have hinted at 150K miles but don't think that is 'official', think I prefer to follow the OEM's (ZF) recommendations instead.
@@millycarrington ya... thats certainly a very detailed description. The directions for achieving a proper fluid level look familiar and are on par with the ZF directions. The part about reseting the ecu is new to me. It makes me wonder what happens if you change fluid but didn't do that step?
@@millycarrington I will also say that using a scan tool on the chrysler products was something that people only did to get an accurate fluid temp. Which Is necessary (as I'm sure you know) to properly set the fluid level. However alot of people (myself included) just used the tranny temp display (if there vehicle had it) on the dash. Thereby foregoing the need for a scan tool.
@@jonh2408 Yep, not actually done mine yet, just in the fact finding stage at the moment.
Jon, I never make comments on the youtube. But for you I'll make the exception. Fantastic job. A wee longwinded but needed to be. Wife just picked up a 17 Pacifica and need info on tranny fluid change. Her's is a 9 speed but I believe same things apply. How's your Jeep doing? Again, thanks for all your hard work and research. I have a hard time believing Chrysler is telling folks Lifetime no service. Sounds like a crock of shite to me.
Appreciate the friendly word. The jeep is doing great. I'm at 170,000 km now so will be doing a follow up video showing the machine that does the "exchange" soon
So you can't use a traditional exchange machine on this zf8hp70 transmission?
You can, but there's a chance of not getting the fluid in the cooler/lines. And a chance of damaging the valve in the thermostatic bypass as the exchange machine "forces fluid through" with more pressure than your own pump
What an education. Thanks for making this amazing & concise content. Subbed!
Thanks for watching
First of all thanks for the great video , the best about ZF 8 so far , I have a Ram 1500 2015 did a flush with the special machine with 130k in some special transfer Service ( live in Europe ) couldn’t find Ram dealer 2 years ago , now I have 205 k km on my ram and month ago started the shifting really bad , temperature is ok it’s not getting hot at all ,called the service again and asked wich oil they’ve used they said Ravenol because i didn’t asked for the lifeguard 8 from ZF , due the Covid i’m not able to travel to the Service back , but yesterday i’ve found on ebay kit with 7 litres of the ZF 8 oil and the pan , can’t find any servise with this flush machine where I live now , do you thing it’s gonna be ok if I just change the pan and oil without flushing the tran ? is it gonna help ? or It can go bad if the ZF oil mixes with the Ravenol ? any ideas ? thanks for help
take care
Well if it ran fine on the Ravenol for that long.. I would think it unlikely that it caused the problem. Maybe look around and see if you can find a local oil change place with the other type of flush machine (like in the video). I mixed my fluid with the maxlife and it ran fine.
@@jonh2408 hi thanks for the answer, found one , filter 900 USD , oil 1liter 89 USD , and changing the oil they want to charge me another 1500 USD live in Switzerland it’s crazy the prices here , so i’m ordering the original ZF8 kit with the pan and 7 litres of oil for 230 USD form ebay and ask the local Service just to change the pan and oil and see what is gonna happen hope it’s gonna help
take care
Any updates months after on using valvoline max fluid? How is it performing on your jeep?
It's good... I changed it at about 105,000 km's and now have about 123,000 km's. Everything is the same for me. I know I've seen alot of forums/comments about how amazing the difference is. How it shifts "silky smooth" and gets better fuel economy. I haven't noticed anything like that with mine. It's all the same with the exception of it takes quite alot longer to reach operating temperature (which on my jeep is 93° C). In my mind that's an indicator of the original fluids worn ability to absorb heat. But ya still running great
Amazing video. Very informative👍👍
THANKS FOR WATCHING... GLAD YOU FOUND IT HELPFUL
Great Video Jon, from a fellow Canadian and hobby mechanic. After all of that, sounds like Great Can Oil change is the way to go :)
Any complaints with the Valvoline yet, or does it seem to be good?
Again, Thanks for taking the time and thorough vid!
Ya thanks for watching... ya the valvoline is still running fine. I know alot of people rave about how much "better" or smoother it shifts with valvoline. I didn't notice any difference in that regard. I did notice it takes alot longer to reach 93 C (which seems to be the temp it runs at). This would indicate ( to me at least) that the original fluids ability to absorb heat was definitely impacted. I see now lots of good reviews on that $30 pan i mentioned in the comments
@@jonh2408 Thanks for the Reply! That about settles it then.. take it in for a Valvoline flush... :)
That'll be a lot easier than I had anticipated this was going to be, esp getting a FULL flush! Have a great weekend!
JL/JT owners…
I highly suggest doing this change at or before its recommended interval. Every one I’ve seen has be super nasty. Just did mine and it was no different.
My 2016 ram I never change in 366k miles. Never had an issue with it. Started hearing issues on my JLU at about 50k
You need to do it 3 times to have mostly new fluid in it. I noticed immediate changes with the first one
@@hailtothe_rooster1572 did you change your pan and filter? I would highly recommend doing that to clear the magnets and get new filter
@ I changed the filter and cleaned the pan with brake cleaner. The pan and gasket are reusable on my model
Can Mopar ATF 4 be used on the 8 and 9 speed transmissions?
No...