The World's Best Automatic Transmission - How Autos Became Cool Again
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- How The Best Automatic Transmission Works. ZF's 8-Speed Auto can give modern dual clutch transmissions a run for their money. It's light, compact, quick-shifting, and shifts are incredibly smooth.
The automatic transmission was a game changer. No longer were three pedals required, drivers could relax as they had one less thing to worry about on the road. But the automatic transmission had many flaws. It was inefficient, shifts were slow and often rough, and automatics were big and heavy. ZF introduced the world's first production 6-speed auto in the 2002 BMW 7-series, but just a year later VW introduced the first production DCT in the European market Golf R32. The dual clutch was faster to shift, efficient, and gave drivers a direct feel. Was this the end for modern automatics? Not quite. ZF introduced their 8HP, an 8 speed automatic that swept the industry as a result of it's shift quality, shift speed, efficiency, size, and cost. We'll learn all about it in the video.
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Thank you for the recognition 😊
I'm one of the developers for this badass gearbox
God bless you!!
Now develop a better manual box!
The video is great, and shows all the detailed changes, but is there One design change that stands out for the huge efficiency increase?
@Lako well, everyone knows how fast dodge's spaghetti transmissions
Too bad the electrical parts were junk
I hope i wasn't the only one waiting for him to reach out and pull out a handy gearbox he just happened to have
3D prints!
No sir you are not 😂😂😂
Or a whiteboard.
We want a "whiteboard" video explaining every detail of the ZF immediately!!!
Got this trans in my M340i. It's a killer gearbox. Always in the right gear, and if it isn't, it can get to it fast. It's smooth and seamless when driving normally and fast and ferocious when driving hard. Love it!
I worked at ZF assembling these 8 speed transmissions. Btw, ZF stands for Zahnradfabrik wich literally means Gear Factory.
Then you likely know he missed the reason why the converter has such a high torque capacity in the Lock mode. The big change, around 2007, was changing from a light duty TC-lock for light torque in top gear(s) only, to a heavy duty, dual disc clutch that locks up in every gear. Also, he said lock-up was only in gears 1 and 6, not true. In the video he was shifting in many gears that were locked, for 1:1 direct drive. I first discovered this new generation automatic in a 2008 Mercedes C300 4Matic 7 speed.
KevinK2 I'm going on a limb here. He didn't say it locked up only in 1st and 6th, he said it was straight through. Now, I'm not sure about 1st, but 6th could easily be a 1:1 input to output ratio, with 7th and 8th as overdrive gears, and the rest as so called under drive gears. I'm still trying to work out exactly what he meant, but my guess is that the input is only driving the sun gears of each epicyclic element, in series, to give the lowest possible ratio, whereas 6th would have the ring gears locked, and the such that the whole epicyclic assembly rotates at engine speed. (A little over ten years ago I used to service these types of gear system almost daily, these days fibromyalgia means I only drive vehicles with them, rather than service and repair them. That said, the 6HP in my Phaeton needs serviced. It slips badly in the upper 3 gears.)
I'll happily take correction on the power transfer path if I've got it back to front. 😄
@@taylorsimonr Thanks for the comment. At 7:18 he said "for 1st gear and 6th gear ... it's a locked-up direct drive" But now I realize the point he made was likely the other gears have gear mesh(s) with high efficiency (98+), but in those 2 gears, there is no gear mesh. This is what you explained very well. My main point was he didn't mention what was responsible for the huge change in atx performance, the muti disc heavy duty TC clutch, for nearly full torque lock-up, by-passing the fluid coupling. Sorry to hear the Fibro, it's RSD that have my tools collecting dust.
I rebuilt an old manual box on a Triumph, with the cluster gear on caged needles riding on the dead shaft. Gear bore was spalled so I sketched up over-boring and fitting in a drawn-cup needle brg for smooth rollin again. Friends with machinist helps.
Human Person You missed the „F“ which stands for Friedrichshafen, the location of the headquarters. Cheers
Actually it is: Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen
Jason, I just got a 320d with the ZF Transmission. While I found the transmission to be pretty competent at first, it didn't really blow me away. Then I got my car coded up to enable the Sports Automatic Transmission (which bmw charges extra for) and boy did that change the characteristics of the whole car. The manual mode shifts are instantaneous as you describe, while the comfort mode shifts are smooth and barely perceptible, as they should be. Truly a masterpiece of a transmission!
Usually this shouldn't be the case. All the additional 200€ of the sports transmission add are the paddle shifters and a launch control, the rest is the same.
The sport automatic transmission option is pretty amazing!
@@Explosivo93 Yes you are correct about launch control and the paddles but it does actually decrease shift times if you have the sport auto. But again you can just code it in with bimmercode like the guy who commented did
@@Explosivo93 BMW themselves might have a different program for the transmission to "encourage" people to pay for the sport transmission package
Agree with you, this transmission is good but not with a small engine. I actually prefered the 6 speed zf in the X1 23d than the 8 in the 320d. It just need some extra torque, at least when you want to dirve a little bit more sportily. For cruising it's okay even with a "smaller" engine like in a 118d.
Cool video. I've been working around projects for this transmission almost my entire career as a mechanical engineer. But whenever I visit the plant where they built them I'm still impressed every time how everything comes together.
Seriously, that ZF 8 speed is amazing, I wish I could justifiably afford a car that has one.
BMW 116i F20 from 2011 for instance ;)
@@wernertrugler1171 true, too small though :) 3 series or higher for me
BMW M240i xdrive with a tuning module is a beast and only cost me $45,000 new
Buy a used Jeep Cherokee with a *9 SPEED* ZF gearbox!
Calvin Nickel not exactly known to be a stellar trans like the 8hp
"The supra's a Z4"
That troll LOL
Lool😂😂😂
Was going to comment this as well, one of the funny things about Jason, he always finds a way to slide in the common/ current masses drama ahah
It was a straight up fact. A supra badge slapped on the back does not a supra make
@@762x69 Someone made a really good video about why this isn't exactly the case but I definitely thought that too at first.
@@wdiv link please if you can? Otherwise I'm sticking with thought of it as the z4 two seat coupe 👌
Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen (ZF) which means gearing/gearwheel factory and Friedrichshafen is in southern Germany at the Swiss border. It exists since 1915. I worked on the Saarbrücken factory at the French border building 8HP gearboxes.
Greetings and great show.
Irgendwie bin ich immer überrascht wenn Amerikaner von irgendetwas reden das bei mir aus der Gegend kommt... :D
You build some masterpieces!
war da auch schon n paar mal, ist echt ein gewaltiges Firmengelände
Tyler Beeson
Too much praise...
The engineers made a good design, also there is very strict quality control and I had a good time and a motivated team of workers and technicians around me. I’m guessing the 8HP will live on for a moment in hybridized form (electric motor at the output shaft).
I spent 3 years in the military at Zweibrucken not far from Saarbrucken.
I had the ZF 8HP in a M135i (old one) - my favourite gearbox. No clutches to worry about. You get the best of both - pure automatic as well as fast gear changes and great fuel economy due to a quick torque converter lock up. The downside I found is that sometimes at low speeds like in traffic the gearbox changing gears would cause a surge, but wasnt really any bother to me. Aston Martin also use these gearboxes.
The ZF-5HP24 in my '03 BMW X5 (4.4L V8) is still going strong with over 220k miles on it. This X5 has even been used to tow a 5k lb trailer between FL and TX (over a dozen times).
Fluid and filter got changed at 100k and 180k. Will be doing another change at 240k.
Is it still smooth?
The q7 v12tdi had the zf6speed, that was a good tranny, but it was holding the engine back because it had too much torque
Hi Jason, just to confirm, the new Continental GT doesn’t use the ZF 8HP. The new one uses the Porsche PDK box. The previous generation GT and the Bentayga use/d the 8HP though.
Source: I might work for Bentley.
Whoops!!! Looks like I used the wrong photo. I wasn't positive about the current gen but knew the previous ones did, so when looking for press photos I just went with current. Good catch, and thanks for pointing this out!
Engineering Explained yeah, on Wikipedia it shows the GT as using the 8HP, but the link hasn’t been changed to what was the current gen at the time to what is now the old gen.
Would be great to see you trying out a Bentley sometime soon and giving your impressions. Not how it would tie in with your channel apart from being essentially two VR6 engines sharing a crank. Sure you can think of something!
Both are developed and built by ZF though ;-)
I'm possibly an employee of a car company from Bavaria starting with "A".
You sure that DSG isn't from us?
i have an A b10 v8 and your switchtronic gearbox is still going strong at 190,000 miles :) i think this was also made buy zf and modified buy the company in bavaria starting with A :)
He's absolutely right, ZF 8 Speed is a dream to drive. The power is there when you ask for it, yet it's so smooth and comfortable. Non-car people could tell the difference and appreciate every bit it, I wish every automatic driver could experience this
Sounds like a dream. I'm stuck with a jerky defective Ford DCT that sometimes randomly gets stuck in 1st gear or won't shift into reverse.
Love the ZF8HP70 in my Scat Pack. In track mode the shifts are crazy fast.
Got it in my 340i and i can honestly say I don’t mind it I’ve been a manual only guy and it feels great works perfectly and wifey can drive it
@Steve Bennet.
So at what point do you start calling it a German car instead of American muscle?
@@Bartonovich52 when the engine is of German design.
The best transmission for me is the one that never breaks until I'm at 400,000 miles
That’s a big number, how many miles a year do you do?
Damn, what are you driving, a Land Cruiser?
If only that’s possible in today’s world.
Change your trans oil and filter once every two years.
Lol 150k on my bmw and i havent touch my ZF since i bought it will make easy 250k without touching the gearbox
Had it in my BMW 335 and loved it. Sadly I sold my BMW to get a Jeep Trackhawk but was delighted to find it also has the ZF 8HP. Such a pleasure to drive. Best transmissions I’ve ever had.
Great video as always, Jason. It is astonishing that this transmission is nearly a decade old but there's still nothing in the market that quite manages to offer its impressive blend of attributes. I come from Malaysia, a market where automatics suffer very high failure rates due to various factors, but I have yet to hear any complaints of the ZF 8HP's durability and reliable. Such a well-engineered piece of hardware.
Hey Kon, when are you gonna review the new S60 T5?
It's an awesome piece of engineering! And yes, 10 years old at this point, though it's on the third generation (which came out in 2018).
@@papoopa5800 gotta wait for the car to reach our market first. Haha
@@EngineeringExplained I have even tried the 8HP on an Iveco van, an experience that opened my eyes to how impressively versatile this transmission is.
...Lexus did it first.
Modern automatics -- and this ZF8HP in particular -- are just unbelievable in their efficiency and power handling capabilities. Back in the day you *had* to have a manual in a sports car because the automatics would lose too much power -- if they could even handle the engine's power-output without blowing themselves apart. The automatic transmissions have improved *so* much since then.
I am missing my legs, so I'm physically incapable of driving a manual shift car -- which sucked when I was younger, because all the fun cars were manuals. Now I can get damn near all of the fun cars with some sort of automatic-shift transmission -- whether it's a dual-clutch or a torque-converter. Great time to be a car enthusiast who can't drive a stick! :-)
I never thought about that, for you guys has to be amazing to be able to drive again these powerful engines and fun cars thanks to these new transmissions ;).
ZF bus automatics are good fun too. Especially the Ecomat used in around 2005 buses.
Manual transmissions are almost a novelty anymore its fun to row your own gears and I can't claim to be a manual expert as I haven't owned one long enough to be extremely proficient but driving a car making 450+ hp in an automatic is much more enjoyable for me. Trying to get through the gears on something making big power is always less enjoyable after a day knowing I can screw it up and I'm not as fast or as efficient as someone in an auto. I have driven a charger scat pack and new camaro in both their automatic and manual configurations and when your new to the car the automatic is easier and by the time you get the shifts figured out on the manual and enjoy it you wish you were back to driving the faster automatic anyway as it`s usually noticeably quicker regardless of how good you are.
The cool part of manual transmissions is they force you to have more focus on the road and in a way teach you to be responsible. But it's subjective of course
Manuals also had more gears and weighed less, but the first isn't the case unless you're talking a big rig (Eaton-Fuller, etc.) and automatics have largely closed the gap in terms of weight.
You have great passion for what you're talking about and that keeps me watching to the last single second of your videos
Great video and explanation of how this ZF works. The ZF 8 speed in my Challenger is amazing..best auto ever!
I love ZF.
Not least because they are owned by a non-profit charitable trust and the profits ZF makes go to meals-on-wheels, kindergartens, OAP homes, hospitals etc.
can confirm, never thought I'd be proud to work for a multi billion dollar company
Gustav Meyrink Thay became big due to the competitive advantage of tax free charity status enabled them crush the opposition. Sanitarium here in Oz has dodgy tax free 'church' status here in Oz, and thier main competitior, 'Kellogs' isnt happy about thier competitiors artificial competitive advantage.
@@nordic5490 As the scientologists found out churches are not tax exempt in Germany, only non-profit organizations are.
Why would they want to crush the competition when they will never make a profit for anyone?
In the case of ZF it is the elected city council of Friedrichshafen who decides where the money goes. There is no individual or group of individuals who gain anything in terms of money, power or prestige when those companies do well. Also German CEOs earn considerably less than their anglo-saxon counterparts, probably because every company above a certain size must have a union rep as a permanent board member so everybody knows what everybody earns.
Result: No runaway remuneration of board members, better wages and conditions for employees.
You should read up on why ZF came to be owned by a charitable trust.
@@nordic5490 I think you're mixing something up here. ZF is a stock company just like most other big companies in the world. The difference is that all their stocks are in the hands of two charities. Those two charities want their share of the pie every year as well, just like in other companies.
You're right though that this share is actually a lot smaller than four other companies
So ZF being separate from automakers, I think they have the ability to build stuff that actually will last? I assume there have been some issues with these ZF8's but probably nothing compared to some other models?
As a manual fanboy, I have to say that the ZF 8 speed is an amazing transmission.
I will always prefer a manual transmission for driving, but I am fascinated by how alot of modern performance automatic transmissions work. Thank you for breaking this down & making this interesting for fellow gear heads 🏎🏁
Absolutely loved the ZF 8 speed in my 2016 340ix. Shifts in sport mode were ridiculously quick!
Hey Jason, great video! The Jesko's new transmission seems really cool and definitely deserves an oldschool whiteboard video I think.
Totally agree with you !!!
It pretty much blows everything else out of the water, including this ZF.
3:49 "The Supra's a Z4"
Takes are served smoldering hot over here
Christian Wertti not quite. The cope style will make it handle better. It’s not only about the engine. The style, suspension, brakes, makes it different
@@inox1ck it's basically, like the Toyota team went to BMW for a "Build a Car Workshop" field trip. BMW was like: "these are our M-cars, this how they handle..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, these guys manufacture the BMW chassis'..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, this is ZF a German company we contract for transmissions, we have a long history with them, and they are developing an 8-speed automatic..." Toyota: "We want that!" BMW: "Okay, now at the heart of a sports car is the engine, we use various engines, your old Supra had a turbo straight-6 right? Well, while you and most every other manufacturer gave up on the straight-6, we furthered the developement and now we have..." Toyota: "We want it!" So seriously... Who do you think designed it?
New Supra is gonna be a BMW, inside and out. TOO SAD.
I was a staunch manual driver until I drove my 370z with the 7at. In manual mode it feels like I'm driving a manual other than not having to shift gears with a lever and a clutch. The converted lockup is aggressive and it shifts super fast. Even rev matches on the downshift.
Was very impressed. My last experience Wei th autos was 90s econoboxes and cvts.
I can't believe how far automatic transmissions have come in my lifetime and this century especially. I had an 83 Ford F-150 with a 3 speed automatic... maybe it had a 4th gear or overdrive but I think it was only 3 speed. And just a few years ago I was looking at the Ford website and looking at all the options available for the trucks and I was interested in going back to driving a manual transmission but I noticed that they no longer had a manual transmission option. They had 7 or 8 speed automatics. And I was shocked that auto had become the only choice. And I happened to run into my cousin who I hardly ever see because he drives over the road semi truck and we got to talking about it and he told me that the new semi he drives actually has an automatic transmission. I was absolutely floored because that was unheard of before. And I asked him how well it works and he said he was skeptical at first but it works just fine. Having been in semis before on trips with my cousins I can tell you that being in control of the gear you're in is a big part of handling the extreme weight and size of a semi, especially on grades/hills. So to hear him say that the automatic is great is just a testament to how good the technology has gotten.
Try an automatic on the column .....Powerglide, 1955 Chev
Is it a conventional automatic as in this video with torque convertor and planetary gears or an automated manual transmission (AMT) the AMT is automatic but
has solenoids to shift for you and being made similar to a manual are able to handle higher torque loadings than a "conventional" auto. Even dual clutch transmissions shift automatically as do CVTs so in todays environment, when speaking of autos, you need to clarify which one.
Ford C4 or Ford C6? both of them are awesome reliable old school ones
It's an "auto shifting" transmission. Same manual transmission as always, only with a box of solenoids on the shift lever input shaft. Computer controlled clutch as well.
Just purchased a BMW 230xi and one of the main reasons was the great ZF 8 speed and how well it works both in automatic and manual modes. In sport mode the transmission always has the engine in the sweet spot so you’re experiencing the full power of the turbo fours torque curve and acceleration is never lacking. It really makes the total driving experience so enjoyable. If you appreciate driving dynamics this is a great choice.
That transmission is absolutely fantastic. We have 2 Ram 1500s with it and it is so smooth and quick, even when towing. I am curious as to what Jason thinks about Ford and GM's 10 speed, if it's better/worse/same. I like having those extra gears especially when towing, but if it's worse than the 8 speed then I don't want it because that 8 speed is seriously that good.
This is a great video. I've been thinking of buying a 3 or 4 series BMW and I'm amazed with the mileage data. The transmission explains it all!
Really incredible, planetary gear set, toque converter, and clutches on the transmission gears set.
Even this F-250 I'm driving uses rev matching when you manually downshift. It's amazing how it blurs the throttle automatically to match the RPM's to avoid the jerkiness you usually get on manually selected downshifts.
It's the 6 speed.
The newer F-150's are using a 10 speed now. Designed in a joint effort with GM.
Shawn Barnish that transmission wasn’t really that much of a joint development. GM was to make a 9-speed FWD based trans to share with Ford and Ford was tasked with making a 10-speed RWD based trans. GM loved the 10-speed and Ford didn’t find the 9-speed adequate in the reliability or power handling abilities.
I love how it behaves in my Wrangler. Itll hold gears, burble, and pop when you let off. Its not a manual by any means but the way it shifts, hold gears, and just generally operates is really quite excellent. The only bad thing about it is it's absurd fluid change procedure.
Love your videos. Nothing but automotive knowledge. Keep the very informative automotive technology coming our way 👏 👍
I have a 2010 E60 550i M Sport with the ZF6HP28. This transmission is wild. In sport mode, it bangs through the gears like a sequential. I love it. I see they are using the ZF8HP in everything now. Down in Aussie, they putting the 8HP’s behind RB26’s making 1000hp and shifting at 9000rpm’s.
ZF must be still proving them self, I know the zf6 and zf5 behind 7.3s are awesome transmissions with that granny low and duel syncro 2nd 3rd and 4th. Tough transmission.
Some folks like the convenience and (now) quicker performance from an automatic transmission. Others of us prefer to row our own gears because....that's how we roll. I think there's room for both of us.
No. There isn't. Car makers have chosen and us who like to row our own have been left behind.
@@TedSchoenling Car makers haven't chosen, buyers have chosen, If the huge majority of buyers had purchased manual gearboxes for the last X years then that's what car makers would provide, but... The vast majority of buyers (in the US) have purchased autos or DCTs for years now so that's what car makers offer.
(in the UK (where I am) a lot of cars that are auto only in the US can still be had with a stick)
You get the best trans to suit the type of car,eg sports car manual,gt and luxury sedans zf8
I have this same transmission in my Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel and I also love it! Very smooth and able to shift quickly.
I own a 2019 Ram 1500 with Hemi eTorque and ZF 8HP75... 40K miles in and i still love this thing! Shifts like butter and never shake, rattle, sputter... They did an amazing job with this powertrain, hooking the Hemi up with the ZF 8HP! Best truck I've ever owned.
I drove a Dodge Challenger with this transmission and I was amazed, I couldn't believe how awesome this transmission is
One of my top reasons for choosing my last truck was the ZF transmission. In 2014 Ram's powertrain was head and shoulders above the competition. The only negative I have is the filter is built into the pan so if you want to change the fluid and filter you have to buy a new pan. I know they claim the fluid is "lifetime" but they also say "lifetime" is 100,000 miles so if you plan on putting 200,000 or 300,000 miles on a vehicle you will be buying several transmissions pans. Seems like the filter could have been made replaceable for very little cost. There are aftermarket pans with replaceable filters but they are very expensive.
I bought a bmw 328i with it, it's fantastic! It's so smooth and responsive when needed. I drove mostly manuals, but got a bit tired of them. The audi a6 7 speed dual clutch is also nice, but I think i prefer the zf8
Totally agree! Have it in my F10 BMW and it is flawless and super smooth.
I have this trans in my RAM 1500. Love it! But it feels like the programming hampers the "quickness" of it. It would be nice to have some control over it to make it shift even half as quick as I know it should be able to. But you can barely feel it shift, if all. The one negative to it is an occasional 2-1 downshift "bump" depending on the conditions (cold temps/fluid, depending on brake pressure, etc)
@@mycosys I get its not related to speed of shift. Was just mentioning its the only thing I dont like. Its a very common issue...its been "fixed" only to come back, etc. I think its more in the adaptive programming than anything else.
Also used in the Audi SQ5, VW Amarok.....AWD's. .....so versatile , brilliant design.
my 2016 3 series thanks you for your kind words :) they're also tunable!
Very informative video, and I agree with you on this transmission of course, I grew up with Powerglide!
Great video. I am no engineer and I read really great things about the new 10 speed automatic made by Ford used in trucks like the Ranger, F150 but also in sport cars. Would love to learn more about that too if you ever have a chance to look into it. Im also curious to know how strong they can kake these boxes, as in hoe much torque can they take before they explode
ZF 8hp is everywhere and is a truly and amazing transmission. They are super smooth and super efficient they have a new design now that’s even more efficient. Plus the TCC locks at about 14mph which helps tremendously with efficiency.
There is no such thing as an amazing automatic transmission. They are all just varying compromises of manual transmissions over the long run. Any efficiencies gained will be lost in the face of the maintenance and rebuilds required. That's why they are a continuous source of headaches and experienced mechanics advise their customers to avoid them when they can, especially CVT. The closest thing to an exception would be the models from Allison with the best service histories.
@@ReflectedMiles you're funny, early CVTs were trash as were lots of early automatics. Current gen automatics are extremely reliable and very efficient.
@@airratchetjockey7605 The mechanics who are most trusted in the suburb of a large city where I live, including some who currently work for dealerships mostly on warranty issues, would disagree.
Reflected Miles ahh yes the standard “I know thousands of master technicians” response. So what do all your “master technicians say you should drive a 70’s VW rabbit? Go ahead and tell the kid who works out of his garage down the street he’s not correct.
@@airratchetjockey7605 Actually the most recent discussion I was referring to was between an independent shop owner and a mechanic at a Nissan dealership. Of course, you're right that their information is old since the discussion was almost three weeks ago now. No doubt they have improved greatly since then. They would agree with you that the transmissions have improved relatively, even JATCO, as that was discussed as well. Equivalent or superior to manuals for service and reliability? Neither agreed with that view.
I have a ZF 6HP28X in my 2007 BMW X5 3.0d with 230,000km on it. Still going strong and hasn't missed a beat!
I love the zf in my 2015 challenger. With sport mode and manual mode selected, paddle shifting through gears is so fast.
EE: "automatic transmissions are cool again"
*value of all automatic transmissions triples overnight*
*BREAKING NEWS: Manual transmission car sales drop to 0%*
@@bibasik7 Then he reviews the Mclaren F1 and T50 gearbox and then manual transmissions are the coolest things on earth.
The 8HP70 is the best thing that happened to Ram trucks ever, or FCA as a whole. I really doubt they would have survived without it. Boosting their reliability is what they needed most and they have it now. Powertrains are solid.
I drag race my 5,000lb pickup all the time and abuse the crap out of it on the street. I've got to say this is the first Dodge I've purposely tried to break the transmission and it just keeps on going.
Guys say they're good for 700hp in pickup trucks which is incredibly robust for a stock transmission.
My friend has a Charger RT with the ZF 8 speed and it’s by far my favorite transmission. I love the gearing, the shift speed, and the smoothness. I’ve driven a few BMWs with the same trans as well and find them slightly better in the BMWs. But the Charger’s application is still amazing. Totally transformed the car. Another friend of mine has a Charger RT with the 5 speed and it feels like a dog compared to the 8.
false, transmissions are rated on torque, so the “70” indicates 700nm of torque
@@m.h.3679 big facts
And 700nm at 7200rpm is 700hp 🤷♂️🤷♂️ dingus
I have C6 transmissions in my ‘71 Mustang and my daily driver ‘68 F100, both with big, high torque V8’s and they’re really bulletproof.
My dad even has a story about driving a new Mustang in ‘68 with a C6 (after a cocktail or two, as was the custom of the day) and due to his SCCA racing experience in a ‘66 Shelby GT-350, attempted to downshift coming out of a corner and put the car into reverse going about 60mph. After coming to a stop with some loud grinding noises, he fired it back up in park and drove off with no issues. A later mechanic inspection didn’t find any any parts that needed to be replaced.
Ford C6 is the best automatic transmission to live with
And the best thing is, that the owner of ZF is a foundation which does a lot for the people in their region. So you can say, if you‘re buying a ZF 8HP, you‘re helping people with it.😁👌
Greetings from Germany!😊👋
That’s nice to know, 👍. Great gearbox though, I have it in my 2018 530d xdrive, better that double clutch boxes. ☘️🇮🇪.
I have a 2010 bmw 535i with ZF8HP trans and it still feels great. Just remember to change your trans fluid every 60k miles/100k km.
I was watching a video yesterday about this transmission and the fluid. The guy says the special fluid is like $43 a quart...ouch!!!!!!
Sure, if you buy from dealer... There is allso fluids that cost 10€/ltr.
@@santtu9169 $10/ltr for unkown compatibility to a $7k transmission...hmm I think I'd use what's recommended, if it fails and they tear it down and find you used the wrong fluid you get to buy a transmission.
Hmm, no. It meets every requirement need for ZF8Hp trans. You can actually buy the original ZF fluid for 13€/liter here in Europe and original filter including oil pan 105€.
@@santtu9169 Yes the filter is actually part of the pan...go ahead and use that knock of fluid but if the tranny fails know that warranty isn't going to cover the failure. Hope someone is using it and reports in 100k miles how its done, personally being on a budget I wouldn't skimp out and use a non-recommended fluid may be more expensive using the recommended fluid but when you are on a budget you certainly don't want a $7k+ transmission to fail on your dime.
I'm super surprised that this video doesn't mention my favorite advantage of the ZF-8 over DCT: The ability to switch gears non-sequentially. My charger could drop from 6th to 2nd when I wanted to take off, DCTs usually cannot do that (maybe they can switch between say 5 and 2 but not 4 and 2 because that'd be the same clutch, but I dunno if anyone has implemented that)
Look up Koenigsegg Jesko!
Dual clutches do downshift an even number of gears, they are pretty fast. Having tried this ZF and the DSG I've noticed no difference in time response during a kick-down: they're both kind of slow and take almost one second to downshift. The DSG is truly instantaneous when downshifting one single gear though (it might be always pre-selected).
I got one out of a jag, and made an adapter for the LS & SBC engines, and now I’m building an arduino based tcm. All of which will be going into my 89 Camaro. This really is the best transmission I’ve ever experienced.
I just picked up an M235i. There's iterally NO MANUALS for sale near me, so had to pick up the auto box. I have no regrets. This ZF transmission is absolutely incredible.
My 2018 Audi S5 also has the ZF 8 speed and honestly, I'm with you on this one Jason. I came from a Mk7 Golf GTI with the DSG, a stunning transmission but...I don't miss it.
Yes, I work where we build it, and we cannot make enough of them !!
salaries must be huge with all that extra work.
Very interesting and thank you 🙏 for that education on the differences 👏 👍
Always have a wonderful techy videos from you. Really ingenious and appealing subject.👌👌
Let me guess. BMW states no trans fluid change is necessary for the entire service life. Haha
Ozzstar yh, but if you go to ZF, they’ll change it for you.
It should be a joke
Do my own fluid changes. 3 BMW'S lol
Welllll my 2001 BMW with a ZF transmission has 175,000+ miles on it with zero fluid changes... so....... yeah, I'd say that works out okay
Unfortunately a lot of manufacturers specify that their transmission as "maintenance free", or "filled for life". I'd still suggest flushing and replacing the filter at regular intervals, but that's just me. IMO, maintenance free just means it'll pop sooner rather than later
The new BMW giant grill/badge/kidney-thing looks absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah. Way to boxey and tall.
H8rs
I think it looks awesome dont know what you’re on about
Bill Kerr i love it
VW’s isn’t much better
My JL wrangler has the ZF 850RE, it is a more refined transmission than the 4 speed in the JK I used to own. Most of your performance is coming from that transmission as most car companies are going to small displacement engines paired to 8 and 10 speed transmissions. It's pretty amazing they can put a 2.0 turbo 4 cylinder in a 4000 pound jeep and make it accelerate to 60mph in 6.5 seconds thanks to that transmission.
Yep. Best transmission ever. Mine was (in a BMW) delaying shifts like it was on break every gear and it would slip when doing agressive kickdown actions. A full ZF kit later it is like I have a new car. Just unbelievable.
I'm pushing 62 and still enjoy manual gearboxes. I taught myself to rev-match double-clutch downshift and enjoy doing so. If my G37S sedan weren't an impulse purchase, it too would be a manual (didn't want to wait three months on a custom order). I just hate how I'm not in total control of the shifting process and that the trans control unit steps in to foil my fun at HPDE. I get one good session before the TCU starts interfering by making uncommanded up-shifts and ignoring down-shift commands. Now, this could be just poor engineering by the firm that made the 7-speed trans but it greatly colors how I feel about automatics in general. I'm going to die with a manual stick shift in my hand.
A341E with 370,000 still shifting smooth as silk. No complaints. Feed it 100% synthetic fluid every 2 years. Keep it happy. .
Please do another video on torque converters. I know you did one a few years ago but would be great to see a remake.
And for all those reasons it is perfect in my hard working vw Amarok.
Fabulous video. I totally agree with your assessment of this truly fabulous transmission. My wife is recently in a 2024 BMW X3 sDrive30i with the ZF 8HP and I am truly thrilled about how incredible this thing is. Had 2 DCT’s (a 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI [DSG] and a Porsche 911’with PDK and while they were fun with quick positive shifts I always feared a failure and it’s associated costs. When researching a new car I discovered this ZF and it’s great reviews. I am so happy with the ZF. It is just too cool that a torque converter transmission is this responsive and more than likely durable, plus cheaper to maintain and repair replace. I personally want to drive manuals forever, but I know those days are numbered. Either by my aging or lack of production.
I have a 2012 328i with the n20 bolted up to my ZF 8HP & I love it more than my ‘03 Jetta GLI (6 speed manual) & ALMOST more than my ‘91 3000gt VR-4 (5 speed manual) 😜
It’s an amazing piece of machinery, I must say. My passengers are always amazed at the performance of the ZF 8 speed and they always ask if it’s a dual clutch. I always tell them “it’s better”. 😂
You are the only one I know who can make a box full of gears sound like a gourmet dining experience.
In this case it is.
**TH400 enters the chat**
**Powerglide enters the chat**
James Fox
“Trans guy” has a whole lot of connotations nowadays. Lol
@James Fox I absolutely hated it's newer version the 4L60 that thing was awful. Well maybe okay for an SUV or light pick up but was weak for a half ton.
@@bryanmartinez6600 Meh they aren't terrible if you have a tuner that knows the transmissions limitations. I'm making around 520whp through a bone stock 4l60 and it hasn't given me any issues yet. The 4l80 is a superior transmission in all categories though.
@James Fox I hope all those 4L60 upgrades were in place by the time they built my 2011 Silverado... I have 92k miles and no issues so far, not even hiccup.
I can only count to three, maybe four.
Fantastic informative video as always
Hey oh Jason,
Thanks for the great video!
1:07 "Infinate speeds with CVT's" *Little Einstiens theme song starts playing*
Infinite *
ZF 8HP is one reason I bought a new BMW 3 years ago, really good transmission.
That is the reason I won't be buying a new BMW.. they aren't offering good manuals anymore.
Ted Schoenling interesting, what did you buy instead?
After only recently moving to a job as a technician in a JLR dealer ship I can 100% confirm the 8hp is a nice auto box performance wise ! Even in 2.5 tonne discover 4’s they feel sporty to drive !
I agree, I have this transmission in my A6 and it's amazing.
ZF goes back quite a while. I remember the ZF being the dominant transmission in the 1968 GT 40
They made gears for german panzers.
Oh YA....THAT IS COOL
I work at the ZF plant in SC where we build that transmission and also build the 9HP. The BMW plant in SC that builds their SUVs just signed a massive contract with us to continue using ZF transmissions
That is good to hear K brizzle, when I was there at ZF Gray Court SC, the BMW Greenville /Duncan plant which is less than 20 miles from Gray Court SC that makes the same 8hp, would get their transmissions shipped all the way from ZF Germany to go into the US built BMW's
That didn't make much sense to me.
I hate bmw and zf transmissions. Audi all the way and dct.
@@leonardoarispe4689 disaster dsg and s tronic... Zf is lighting years ahead
Amazing how you can explain so much such a powerful car.
Thanks. Always had a bad experience with autos. Shifts are slow, power delivery is dampened and just elgh in general. So for me it was either manual or dct. Nothing inbetween. I’m looking at a M140i and was a bit disappointed hearing it had a normal auto. Watching this video made me pretty encouraged knowing it was used in so many performance cars.
Hi mate, can you make a comparison video between hydraulic power steering and electric power steering ???
Just remember to change to transmission fluid and filter at 80,000km. There's no such thing as a lifetime fluid BMW..
exactly some people really believe they make life time fluid
anyusernamesleftest why? My E36 with 280.000km on it, shifts just fine. Never changed anything inside the transmission. A german car-news journal took apart a automatic transmission from a 200.000km E39, inside it was like new, with the original ZF ceiling on it!
@@matthiaskoeppel187 What ZF and BMW recommends are two different things. I'd listen to the manufacturer. You owned your E36 from new?
anyusernamesleftest nope but the transmission is still ceiled, you cant change the oil without destroying the ceiling.
@@matthiaskoeppel187 What sealing are you talking about? Have you ever serviced a trans?
I have been a fan of automatics from the time I started driving in the late sixties when stick shift and clutch were cool. Launching a big block at say six thousand rpm is fun. While I don't know the name of the person to credit for the idea but with some machine work on a GM Turbo 400 the converter was replaced with a clutch and pump.
Fun at launch and no missed shifts.
It was the early days of high stall converter technology.
The two speed slip and slide GM Powerglide was reborn into a well used drag racing trans. Gotta to love them automatics.
My 2009 Jetta Sportwagen has the DSG 6 speed, a very smooth and quick shifter!👍
Fantastic review. You are the king in car reviews. But this presentation lacks a complete review on the reliability of the modern day automatic transmission. What is the cost of repairing this 8 speed ZF new transmission from BMW? Dual clutch transmissions are renowned to cause problems after 120.000 KM. Please give us a full review on the reliability on Mazda new generation Skyactiv Drive automatic transmission which states it combines all the advantages of conventional automatic transmissions, continuously variable transmissions, and dual clutch transmissions. But nobody has given us a complete review on the reliability!!
ZF gearboxes have always been brilliant.
Sorry but I must say that you are not completely right. While ZF does make some great transmissions they also produce some real duds. Their 9 speed trannys currently used in a plethora of vehicles including Ram/Fiat/Stellantis/Chrysler/Honda etc has dog clutches that have caused and still continue to provide a very unsettling experience to many owners. Everyone is allowed a bad egg once in awhile, but the problem I have is ZF is still producing them in massive quantities and they are being sold to an unsuspecting/uneducated public.
As soon as he said "zed" instead of "zee" I was hooked (from the UK :) ). I have a BM with this gearbox and it is crazy good. I tend to drive it in Sport/Manual mode and it is so good I don't think I could go back to anything else. There is no way I could shift this quick with a manual gearbox - and I've been driving manuals since 1978. I like the fact that this gearbox has "3" clutches. That's one more than dual clutches. :) :)
Yeah my 2022 Ram comes with the ZF 8HP75 transmission and is the best I have ever experienced...So smooth love it...
I can't praise the ZF 8HP enough. And I'm a manual guy.
Rip the manuals, sad times we're living in haha.
@@Z4G. I've made my peace with the inevitable demise of manuals. My current car is a manual, but pretty much every other I like and can think of buying is automatic. Having the 8HP makes the transition a lot easier
I totally agree, on the same boat
As far as I'm concerned torque converters are the most amazing mechanical devices in existence.
Invented by GM
Naw, superchargers yo!
And bloody boring, inefficient and power wasting
MacTechG4 By allowing torque multiplication,at clutch lock up heat and inefficiency are gone. If it’s boring then it’s tuned wrong. They’re stronger than any manual trans that can fit in a car. Shifting manually is fun of course but they’re a comprise at best and a limitation once torque is upped. Having to use a 2.26 to 1 spread is boring and irritating in most situations.
@@MrGreenelight - The torque converter is a German invention, the automatic a Canadian, but sold to GM.
I first noticed a big change in automatic's with the 7G-Tronic in a friend's 2008 C300 Mercedes 7 speed. Lock up torque converters had low torque capacity for most earlier transmissions, and locking was often just available at low loads in top gears, for fuel economy. But I could go about full throttle in any gear in that C300, and the much stronger lock-up clutch did not slip or kick out. I was just like a manual trans with automatic shifting. Auto's no longer had to be a "slush box".
Got zf 8 speed in bmw 118i (1.6 twinturbo something). I love it. Just put the engine on 2500 rpm, and slide up through the gears!
I love how torque converter delivers power and the way it "engages" from stand
Dual clutches try to simulate a torque converter by slipping the clutch and they do a pretty good nowadays, I've once driven a BMW assuming it was a regular auto, only to find out later it was a DCT. Likewise, I confused a Mini regular automatic for a DCT (because of the NIC: it disengages the clutch at a standstill only to re engage it when letting the brake go, the same way a DCT does).
@@demagab it is not just about the way it feels, no clutch can multiply torque when starting ...
My honda has a torque converter and a clutch to be disengaged at a stand still...
How does it compare to the GM-Ford 10 speed used in the Chevrolet camaro ZL1?
Hey, any news about this?? I have the same question
They’re similar in several areas, comparing lighter duty 10R/10L to 8HP/8L. Both employ 4 separate planetary gear sets, the 1-4 ratios are identical and 10th is common to ZF 8th. Ford essentially combines triple clutch sets to replace doubles. The result is 10 forward speeds in same length as the 8 forward speed box. The maximum torque rating ranges 600-650 ft*lbs, depending upon the version. The heavy duty 10R140, GM version known as 10L1000, shares several design elements but is considerable larger in diameter and length while offering 70% higher torque limit.