Today on a very special Waveform: Marques and the gang take a road trip to learn more about electric cars, but instead the team learns more about themselves and each other along the way.
If you think about how massive the infrastructure is involved in making a gas-powered car have a seamless experience, it is amazing it works at all. EV infrastructure is much less complicated to roll out. It doesn't require tanks of fuel to be driven all over the country, stored in the ground at stations, or for oil to be shipped around the world and refined. Doing an EV road trip today is like doing a gas road trip in the 1920s. In 10 years the debate about charging will be dead.
@@macaron3141592653 that is unique to North America. In the EU, they have a single charging port standard. So any EVs can use any fast charger. Tesla is now opening their SC to other cars. This makes long road trips more like a ICE car.
Gas infrastructure has been in development for over 100 years. It's not that amazing given the amount of time it's had. EV's have had maybe a decade to try and catch up. It should have the advantage in the future though being they just need to connect to the electric grid and have technicians to repair them at the ready.
I’ve gotten stuck at a broken charger too. Called the number and they literally told me “ask a friend for a ride”. I was in the middle of nowhere. Had to tow my car home
Great episode! as a Model 3 owner this was still very insightful ... great comparisons and I would have like to hear what each team paid in gas / charging, please sneak that in the video if you can. thanks!
Mach-E owner here 🙋♂️ Regarding the weird cruise control speed behavior…the Mach-E has a cruise control feature where it will automatically adjust your speed according to the speed limit, +/- whatever threshold you have defined in your settings. So I’m wondering if the previous driver had it set to go 20mph over the current speed limit (sorry if anyone else has already pointed this out).
On the topic of range estimates: Give me the estimate at the *worst case scenario,* so everything turned on and running full tilt, cargo maxed out, and reasonable-ish throttle. This way I'm not being shorted if I'm more efficient, but know realistic values if I'm utilizing the worst case scenario
Estimated range while driving is much more accurate, since efficiency is based on the speed and the driver. Recommended chargers take this into account. Worst case scenario, you just drive slower. Range increases significantly with slight speed decrease
When we drive our Model 3 at the speed limit, not over, and when we accelerate gradually, not lead footing it, we beat the range estimate. I think too many Tesla drivers floor it too much (it's fun, I don't blame them), drive 10 mph over the speed limit, and that's why they get bad range. Just my opinion 🙂
Bump up this comment, its the same with gas cars if my gf is a bit if a hoon and has to fill up every week whereas i can almost last two weeks if im lucky. I just love cruising in the left lane (right lane for you american folks), im in no rush and i love driving
Exactly. My lifetime average is 235Wh/ mile which is exactly the EPA mileage. Over the last 8000 miles the number is even better, 227Wh/mile and that includes last winter.
@@joshuarosen465 Phenomenal. What's your climate like, and is it a LR Model 3? That's what I have up here in Buffalo (orig., no heat pump) and lifetime, year-round, is 248.
@@johnp.weiksnar6861 it's a 2019 AWD so no heat pump. I only do long drives in the summer so that helps and I like back roads which also helps but I'm getting great mileage on Interstates also. I drive the limit and, rely on regen braking as much as possible and I do gentle acceleration. There is a lot of mountain driving, we've been to Vermont six times this year. In the winter I precondition the car before leaving so that I can minimize the heater use.
Charging and electric car at a hotel is one of the only advantages of an electric car on a road trip. So I’ll be much more curious to see what the time differences would’ve been if you would’ve taken advantage of that benefit.
@@seanz6586 Much cheaper to run* It's at the moment still so expensive to buy a decent eletric car compared to a decent car that run on gasoline/diesel that an EV would only make up for that difference in price if you drive like a lot, really a lot.
Not all have chargers and typically it’s not many and who knows if it’s even available, what if someone else is charging on a slow charger, they are gonna use it all night
IMO Chargers need to be run like gas stations, as in, privately owned businesses that leverage the infrastructure of a larger company (like Shell, BP, etc) for their "gas"/EV stations. Kum & Go has partnered with Tesla to install Tesla chargers at most of their newest locations and install them at some of their existing ones and I think that's the move.
Chargers are much better run as a single company or government run (or just the local electrical utility). It would be much easier to regulate and as long as the people involved are competent it'll be good, but the American government is just a bunch of corporations working to make people think public ownership of systems is a bad idea.
Thanks so much for these videos. I just bought a Model Y and my brother just bought a Mach E. We are both about to take a long road trip and this has taught us to me more intentional about traveling with the Mach E. We still LOVE our vehicles just learned that the rare road trips we take need a little more planning.
I feel like the car companies are lacking on the infrastructure either hoping for the government to split the bill or to take advantage of people who don't want to deal with range anxiety.
Look up Roadie portable charging system. It's a portable battery that can be put in the back of a tow truck, and can add enough range to get to your next charger relatively quickly. So it does exist.
Great video. Also, What I think would also help is to add another factor into the mix - Weather. A road trip in the winter /cold climate will impact electric cars more than gas … but by how much ?
My winter efficiency only takes a 7% hit in a Model 3 Long Range. That means using the PTC heater (not a heat pump) to keep the cabin in the low 60s, and seat heaters, mainly on low. This original heater draws ~6kW, vs. a seat heater which is max. 80W.
Great test! An important thing to note is that the electrify America Network was born by force out of Diesel gate so it doesn't have a ton of effort behind it and it's not a company trying to succeed, its them complying with the Diesel Gate settlement.
True, but the company has only been around since 2017 and already has a network of chargers across the country. There's definitely issues but the effort is there it's just going to take time to get to supercharger numbers.
Hopefully the situation will improve as the head of VW recently did a road trip in their own EV and shared his experience with charging. It wasn't good and he now realizes that improvement is necessary.
All of this talk makes me extremely nervous about electric cars until the infrastructure is built up more. You all should do a test in Oklahoma and Texas. People out here drive long distances for work and leisure stuff, and there can be a lot of traffic, especially in Texas.
Eh, Texas has so many ev chargers. Especially Teslas superchargers. You can drive the ATX, DFW, HOUSTON triangle with even a model 3 sr+ just fine. I've done the dfw to Amarillo in a Tesla and it was perfect. Lmk if you need info❤️
Phantom breaking in autopilot is not because of the shadow, it's happens because of the radar. Radars don't have that much of resolution to tell if the overpass that it's detecting is above the ground or its a wall infront of it. All radar does is, calculation of distance of an object, not their position, and that confuses the computer, in that situation it doesn't know who to trust, the vision that says it's just a overpass or the radar that says there's an big wall infront of the car. That's why Tesla is going full vision, eliminating radar.
Yeah other cars would do that too, but most manufacturers just code the system so it never stops for stopped objects like stopped cars and stuff, which gets rid of the phantom braking, but the system i becomes limited.
@@VishnuRajeevan it has reduced significantly and in majority of the cases it's not happening. For the rest of the them here's the explanation - Tesla's FSD software before the full vision transition was made for radar and vision, so in that case information taken from vision and radar are sandwiched or fused to make the car understand distance, position, velocity, direction etc. The tricky part is removing all the learning from the neural net about the sensor fusion is very hard, and were talking about billions of kilometres of data that were taken using sensor fusion, and then the NN learnt from it. How to remove those bad codes from the NN? Well, Tesla has to get more data from the vision only system to replace them, which they already had from past + the new data coming in. So that's why they did the fundamental rewrite, that was released with Beta 9. I'm 100% sure Beta 10, that'll be released on September 10, will eliminate that problem completely. As the NN is now fully end to end retrained.
I work for Dyson’s Energy Storage R&D division and yes, the battery chemistry itself creates a charge curve. The curve isn’t necessary caused by any programmed logic in the car or charger.
Love the content Marques! I would recommend swapping out your mic tho. The mic you're using, the Electro-Voice RE27N/D, has very little low-end, so you'd need to have a pretty deep/ bassy voice to sound good on it. The SM7b is always a safe choice albeit somewhat dull. I think your voice would sound great on the Electro-Voice RE20. It's my favorite dynamic microphone in that range. N/D series by Electro-Voice just tend to cut out way too much bass which sorta the opposite of what you want for a podcast. I appreciate your willingness to try more "out-there" mics. I've seen very few people using the 27N/D long term. Either way, keep up the good work!
The more autopilot drives, the better the efficiency. Another power tip is to disable ap on freeway exit to max regen braking which can recapture tons of energy esp if exiting at full freeway speeds. Can gain 15-20% back in process especially if ap was driving the whole way sipping electrons (with appropriate follow distance; too much or little cause undue stopping & braking)
Not charging at a hotel over night is not very realistic in my opinion. Most people driving a BEV would do that and choose the hotel accordingly. So this approach misses the point that BEVs can be charged anytime when they are parked not causing any delay on a road trip like this.
Also fast charging at night will take less time than the morning as the battery is cold soaked through the night, whereas at night the car has been driving so battery is nice and warm so it can charge quicker.
The ID4 from VW has a very nice charging curve to 90%+. The Pro has 270 mile of range, good driver assist, and an accurate range estimator. I'd put that up against the Mach E and other non-Telsa EVs.
Scary that chargers can still be broken and nothing available for a long ways. Charging stations need some form of redundancy or recovery, in an IT way. Separate circuit, separate source. It should be considered a critical infrastructure system.
The gas car should have started with only 1/2 a tank of gas and the EVs full. This is realistic with real world where every time you take a trip, your first stop is 5 miles from your house to fill up the gas car or waste time the night before.
You can tell you really needed to work hard to say good things about the Ford Mache... because it is the only slight competition to the model Y. Most Mache are more expensive than a Tesla Y also.. but keep up the good work and keep trying with the Ford.
The no pre-planning rule is clearly the reason the Mach E lost by so much. It would have got third anyway, but you didn't have to kneecap it like that. Anyone roadtriping an EV plans out good charging options ahead of time and can also look for station serviceability.
That's part of the EV experience as it exists currently. For EV's to become mainstream, that process needs to disappear. I think that will happen as the charging network gets built out. Tesla realized years ago that the charging infrastructure is crucial to EV acceptance, so good for them. Hopefully time will cure this problem.
I don't think ev infrastructure will ever match gas station infrastructure because most of ev refueling happens at home. It does need to get more reliable and consistent, but I think ev road trips will always take more planning than gas raod trips. It's not like its difficult to plan stops on a road trip, people have been doing that for years.
When you mention range estimate for the Tesla, please clarify that it's the remaining battery capacity estimated in miles instead of percentage which is obviously based on "perfect conditions" because it doesn't have any other inputs to give a better estimate. However when you use the built in Tesla GPS navigation it gives a much more accurate range since it now takes into consideration the route including elevation changes. So with that said, it's much better to just use percentage as your display for how much battery you have left instead of miles.... in the same way for your phone it's much better to display your battery life as percentage instead of time left.
From my home in Lubbock, Texas the nearest Tesla supercharger is 130 miles away so we've got a long ways to go on building out the charging infrastructure. I've driven Model 3 LR over 70,000 miles and the only time I've waited for a charger ( about 10 minutes) is in Houston on my last road trip.
Gas stations aren’t always found in rural locations, especially at night; charging stations are always open; amenities aren’t always available, though.
I considered buying a CCS to Tesla adapter for road trips, but after inspecting 6 EA locations and discovering “out of service” stalls, I decided not to use EA. I returned to a few defective EA stations 7-10 days later and they were still out of service so that tells me their repair service is poor. Some EA locations are a mix of CHAdeMO & CCS with only 2-4 stalls so when one is defective you may have to wait a long time to charge. I’ve never had that problem with Tesla and have taken several road trips including Boston to SW Florida.
Sounds about right, John. My experience with EA was always hit-and-miss. Also, I just heard today that a Tesla owner returned their new CCS adapter since it failed to work on a good portion of DCFC stations. I'd wait for an official Tesla-issued one, and keep using the CHAdeMO in the meantime . . . if Supercharging is absolutely not an option.
Gotta say this since people get thrown off by videos like this: most charging happens at home overnight. You won't be out looking for charging stations every day. Refueling is simpler and more convenient with an EV
@@andyguerrero7254 then you don't own an EV... More and more complexes are getting chargers, though. First, the people with garages will support the technology, then it spreads along with accessibility
@@brixan... that’s my current issue, I live in an apartment complex & I would like an EV. It be much cheaper than gas considering the amount of driving I do but unfortunately the nearest charging station for me is at a mall a few miles away. Chicago suburbs needs to catch up on EV infrastructure
Agreed. There's also a lot of multiple car families where one might own an EV and the other owns an ICE vehicle. That is currently my situation. On the long road trips we take the ICE. Ideally though in the future I'd like to go all EV. I mean if you are really that worried about it rent an ICE car for trips. Around town the benefits of owning an EV are so so much greater than ICE.
Hybrids don’t really do much better than a gas car on the highway, in the city, huge difference, but highway driving the hybrid system is just dead weight for the most part.
35:00 a battery that you can plug in does exist: eco flow. Also, recovery vehicles here in the UK are now starting to be equipped with chargers that can get you going for a few miles e.g. AA
I am andrew, just listening to two blokes talk about their expensive electric cars and quality of life, while he/and i just drive a classic subaru that does the job
Basic range estimate in Tesla is nonexistant, however, if you set your navigation to a destination/supercharger, isn't the percent it predicts you will arrive at very accurate?
35:00 There's a portable charging system called SparkCharge that can send tow operators with a battery that can fast charge your ev in case you ever run out. I believe they're only on the east coast at the moment but if you need them, they could be a good option.
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if in the future there could be a charge sharing feature between similar model EVs. Like 2 male plugs and it just shares 10 miles or something. Not sure if it could work, not sure how long it'd take, but feels like a little option for the future. Edit: for clarification, I mean for if you run out of charge on the side of the road. Sorta an alternative to being towed.
13:23 no it's just that you haven't used the consumption graph, which will give accurate range estimate instead of simple range display based on battery %
My argument against it being less decentralized is it needs to be even more decentralized like gas stations. In many/most places you have two or more options to fill up at.
So long as the charging technology remains unpatented, that competition should crop up sooner or later, regardless of the centralization of Electrify America. For now, in EV's relative commercial infancy, more centralization is necessary for EV's to become viable enough for enough people to buy them, and so competition will naturally crop up to cut into Electrify America's market share. It's a cyclical problem, but one that (for now) requires centralization and unity for non-Tesla EVs.
Mach e charging curve needs to be ironed out. It should match at least what WV ID 4 offers at 80% 66kw and 35kw at 90%. Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ionic 5 will soon bring much needed competition as far as fast charging. Just a heads-up .
Not doing the destination charging thing is a huge miss to me in this discussion. Gas stations may be everywhere but you can charge EV at a hotel overnight. The talk about what to do at chargers are also good--food and bathroom at chargers are a crap shoot, especially after dinner hours.
I always set my clock ahead like between 5-7 minutes. My original reasoning was that this way I’m never late. The problem is that I just end up doing the math in my head and arriving at the same time! So I’d end up doing this too with the range on the Mustang. I’d push it past zero, counting on the miscalculation. Honestly rather than going through all that song and dance, just tell me the daym correct number. I think it’s just that there is a flaw in the programming in the algorithm that figures out how much you have left. Then they tried to play it off as done on purpose! “It’s a feature!” Yeah,, right! Just give us correct info Ford! Don’t be lazy!
I get the point but realistically, highly accurate range estimates are just not practical. There's way too many variables that can't be known ahead of time. Being further on the conservative side rather than optimistic just makes sense.
It's impossible for the car to give you the "correct number" because there isn't one! There are too many unknown factors. There is a whole range of possible outcomes depending on the traffic, the weather and the way in which YOU choose to drive. This was driven home to me early on in my experience with the Model 3. A road-trip of 230 miles was grossly impacted by a 40 mph wind. I was surprised at the amount by which the range was impacted by the wind. I had to decrease my speed to reach my destination, but the car had range graphs on the UI to show me how to manage the situation. This is just physics. The effect on a gasoline car would have been the same, but I would have just pulled into a gas station and filled up. Ev's need to get to a dependable, ubiquitous charging infrastructure.
Btw high speed rail could make this trip in maybe 5 hours and would use even less energy! Makes you think if such a car centric society like the US is actually a good idea.
28:10 Assuming that county map is illustrating EV stations or EV Owners in California, does anyone know exactly which order those colors are in that represent each county?
The charge rate doesn’t matter nearly as much as the efficiency of the car!!! It’s about what you do with the energy, not how much you put in. This is why Tesla out performs on their network, without needed 350 kilowatts
That mustache is an easy 10/10
for sure, for sure.
@@micahdotpage ok
9:44 RIP...your sacrifice will be remember
and the rose gold mac 🔥😵💫
Today on a very special Waveform: Marques and the gang take a road trip to learn more about electric cars, but instead the team learns more about themselves and each other along the way.
Lol
LOL
@@eefm99 LOL
Maybe the electric cars is the journey we all made...
lol
If you think about how massive the infrastructure is involved in making a gas-powered car have a seamless experience, it is amazing it works at all. EV infrastructure is much less complicated to roll out. It doesn't require tanks of fuel to be driven all over the country, stored in the ground at stations, or for oil to be shipped around the world and refined. Doing an EV road trip today is like doing a gas road trip in the 1920s. In 10 years the debate about charging will be dead.
Bingo.
at the rate at which the network is improving, I'm not too hopeful. The shitiness of our EV charging systems is insane, and there are no excuses.
I’d say 15-20 years 😂
@@macaron3141592653 that is unique to North America. In the EU, they have a single charging port standard. So any EVs can use any fast charger. Tesla is now opening their SC to other cars. This makes long road trips more like a ICE car.
Gas infrastructure has been in development for over 100 years. It's not that amazing given the amount of time it's had. EV's have had maybe a decade to try and catch up. It should have the advantage in the future though being they just need to connect to the electric grid and have technicians to repair them at the ready.
I’ve gotten stuck at a broken charger too. Called the number and they literally told me “ask a friend for a ride”. I was in the middle of nowhere. Had to tow my car home
love david's commitment to the bit
Great episode! as a Model 3 owner this was still very insightful ... great comparisons and I would have like to hear what each team paid in gas / charging, please sneak that in the video if you can. thanks!
Thats on the main channel by the way his latest video you can go check it out very insightful. 👏👏👏
@@ajigijigi wooo
@@ajigijigi what main channel? I thought this was the main channel
@@rzawistowski33 marques brownlee is the main channel with over 10million subscribers
If I remember correctly, the “gasolina” team spent 88$, the Tesla team 66$ and the Ford team 62$
David is my favorite in MKBHD team.
I would love to see a 2 year update to this!
Mach-E owner here 🙋♂️ Regarding the weird cruise control speed behavior…the Mach-E has a cruise control feature where it will automatically adjust your speed according to the speed limit, +/- whatever threshold you have defined in your settings. So I’m wondering if the previous driver had it set to go 20mph over the current speed limit (sorry if anyone else has already pointed this out).
after listening to the episode on spotify I had to check out the video to see David's entry. I'm glad to report that I wasn't disappointed
On the topic of range estimates:
Give me the estimate at the *worst case scenario,* so everything turned on and running full tilt, cargo maxed out, and reasonable-ish throttle. This way I'm not being shorted if I'm more efficient, but know realistic values if I'm utilizing the worst case scenario
Estimated range while driving is much more accurate, since efficiency is based on the speed and the driver. Recommended chargers take this into account.
Worst case scenario, you just drive slower. Range increases significantly with slight speed decrease
@@thomasreese2816 yeah you literally use half the energy when going 55mph vs 80mph. Shows how a slight decrease in speed increases your range a lot!
David’s blink rate is proportional to how hard he’s thinking.
😂😂
When we drive our Model 3 at the speed limit, not over, and when we accelerate gradually, not lead footing it, we beat the range estimate. I think too many Tesla drivers floor it too much (it's fun, I don't blame them), drive 10 mph over the speed limit, and that's why they get bad range. Just my opinion 🙂
Bump up this comment, its the same with gas cars if my gf is a bit if a hoon and has to fill up every week whereas i can almost last two weeks if im lucky. I just love cruising in the left lane (right lane for you american folks), im in no rush and i love driving
Exactly. My lifetime average is 235Wh/ mile which is exactly the EPA mileage. Over the last 8000 miles the number is even better, 227Wh/mile and that includes last winter.
@@joshuarosen465 Phenomenal. What's your climate like, and is it a LR Model 3? That's what I have up here in Buffalo (orig., no heat pump) and lifetime, year-round, is 248.
@@johnp.weiksnar6861 it's a 2019 AWD so no heat pump. I only do long drives in the summer so that helps and I like back roads which also helps but I'm getting great mileage on Interstates also. I drive the limit and, rely on regen braking as much as possible and I do gentle acceleration. There is a lot of mountain driving, we've been to Vermont six times this year. In the winter I precondition the car before leaving so that I can minimize the heater use.
@@joshuarosen465 Thanks so much for the details, Joshua!
Charging and electric car at a hotel is one of the only advantages of an electric car on a road trip. So I’ll be much more curious to see what the time differences would’ve been if you would’ve taken advantage of that benefit.
One of the only advantages? One of the MANY advantages. . . . ("Room service, please top off my gas tank" . . . yeah, sure!)
Only? Lol…. Also that it’s much cheaper in an EV in most of the country and more enjoyable.
@@seanz6586 Much cheaper to run* It's at the moment still so expensive to buy a decent eletric car compared to a decent car that run on gasoline/diesel that an EV would only make up for that difference in price if you drive like a lot, really a lot.
Not all have chargers and typically it’s not many and who knows if it’s even available, what if someone else is charging on a slow charger, they are gonna use it all night
I loved this expirement. You guys should do it again in California!
22:18 that's exactly what Zach and Jesse have been talking about on their YT channel Now You Know. They're great guides to EVs.
IMO Chargers need to be run like gas stations, as in, privately owned businesses that leverage the infrastructure of a larger company (like Shell, BP, etc) for their "gas"/EV stations. Kum & Go has partnered with Tesla to install Tesla chargers at most of their newest locations and install them at some of their existing ones and I think that's the move.
I think Shell is getting in the game I've heard they plan on installing a LOT of chargers.
Chargers are much better run as a single company or government run (or just the local electrical utility). It would be much easier to regulate and as long as the people involved are competent it'll be good, but the American government is just a bunch of corporations working to make people think public ownership of systems is a bad idea.
Thanks so much for these videos. I just bought a Model Y and my brother just bought a Mach E. We are both about to take a long road trip and this has taught us to me more intentional about traveling with the Mach E. We still LOVE our vehicles just learned that the rare road trips we take need a little more planning.
I feel like the car companies are lacking on the infrastructure either hoping for the government to split the bill or to take advantage of people who don't want to deal with range anxiety.
Look up Roadie portable charging system. It's a portable battery that can be put in the back of a tow truck, and can add enough range to get to your next charger relatively quickly. So it does exist.
Great for people who would need a porta-potty delivered to their car instead of just finding a building with plumbing. . . .
Great video. Also, What I think would also help is to add another factor into the mix - Weather.
A road trip in the winter /cold climate will impact electric cars more than gas … but by how much ?
My winter efficiency only takes a 7% hit in a Model 3 Long Range. That means using the PTC heater (not a heat pump) to keep the cabin in the low 60s, and seat heaters, mainly on low. This original heater draws ~6kW, vs. a seat heater which is max. 80W.
Great test! An important thing to note is that the electrify America Network was born by force out of Diesel gate so it doesn't have a ton of effort behind it and it's not a company trying to succeed, its them complying with the Diesel Gate settlement.
I realize you brought that up but that's the reason they break, I agree that the companies need to do better.
True, but the company has only been around since 2017 and already has a network of chargers across the country. There's definitely issues but the effort is there it's just going to take time to get to supercharger numbers.
Hopefully the situation will improve as the head of VW recently did a road trip in their own EV and shared his experience with charging. It wasn't good and he now realizes that improvement is necessary.
All of this talk makes me extremely nervous about electric cars until the infrastructure is built up more. You all should do a test in Oklahoma and Texas. People out here drive long distances for work and leisure stuff, and there can be a lot of traffic, especially in Texas.
Eh, Texas has so many ev chargers. Especially Teslas superchargers.
You can drive the ATX, DFW, HOUSTON triangle with even a model 3 sr+ just fine. I've done the dfw to Amarillo in a Tesla and it was perfect. Lmk if you need info❤️
You do know they are based near New York right ..... lol they are not gonna drive all the way to Texas to test that out
@@96Cubs why not? A road trip vlog series could be great haha.
Most of your charging will just happen overnightat home and you'll be ready to go in the morning. This test isn't really matching real life
Just buy a tesla, they have the chargers, the other don’t. It’s really a massive difference.
Can’t wait to see the results
Phantom breaking in autopilot is not because of the shadow, it's happens because of the radar. Radars don't have that much of resolution to tell if the overpass that it's detecting is above the ground or its a wall infront of it. All radar does is, calculation of distance of an object, not their position, and that confuses the computer, in that situation it doesn't know who to trust, the vision that says it's just a overpass or the radar that says there's an big wall infront of the car. That's why Tesla is going full vision, eliminating radar.
Yeah other cars would do that too, but most manufacturers just code the system so it never stops for stopped objects like stopped cars and stuff, which gets rid of the phantom braking, but the system i becomes limited.
@@harsimranbansal5355 also hard coding approach can lead to some vulnerable situations.
So why does this happen in vision only cars?
@@VishnuRajeevan it has reduced significantly and in majority of the cases it's not happening. For the rest of the them here's the explanation - Tesla's FSD software before the full vision transition was made for radar and vision, so in that case information taken from vision and radar are sandwiched or fused to make the car understand distance, position, velocity, direction etc. The tricky part is removing all the learning from the neural net about the sensor fusion is very hard, and were talking about billions of kilometres of data that were taken using sensor fusion, and then the NN learnt from it. How to remove those bad codes from the NN? Well, Tesla has to get more data from the vision only system to replace them, which they already had from past + the new data coming in. So that's why they did the fundamental rewrite, that was released with Beta 9. I'm 100% sure Beta 10, that'll be released on September 10, will eliminate that problem completely. As the NN is now fully end to end retrained.
I work for Dyson’s Energy Storage R&D division and yes, the battery chemistry itself creates a charge curve. The curve isn’t necessary caused by any programmed logic in the car or charger.
That’s what I thoguht
So enjoyed and love all the information shared ,Watched both the Video and Listen to Podcast.Great job guy's.Deb 💯✌
At least on the Plaid, even though it said 0 miles, you still had like 20+ miles of charge left
Love the content Marques! I would recommend swapping out your mic tho. The mic you're using, the Electro-Voice RE27N/D, has very little low-end, so you'd need to have a pretty deep/ bassy voice to sound good on it. The SM7b is always a safe choice albeit somewhat dull. I think your voice would sound great on the Electro-Voice RE20. It's my favorite dynamic microphone in that range. N/D series by Electro-Voice just tend to cut out way too much bass which sorta the opposite of what you want for a podcast. I appreciate your willingness to try more "out-there" mics. I've seen very few people using the 27N/D long term. Either way, keep up the good work!
Can’t believe you all drove by where I live that’s wild
I'm addicted to David's hard blinks
David is hilarious 😂😂😂
The more autopilot drives, the better the efficiency. Another power tip is to disable ap on freeway exit to max regen braking which can recapture tons of energy esp if exiting at full freeway speeds. Can gain 15-20% back in process especially if ap was driving the whole way sipping electrons (with appropriate follow distance; too much or little cause undue stopping & braking)
❤that dog is too cute.
That could totally be a Top Gear episode
David 👍🏾👍🏾 love that mustache
Special episode fits, one of my favorite episodes so far!
Not charging at a hotel over night is not very realistic in my opinion. Most people driving a BEV would do that and choose the hotel accordingly. So this approach misses the point that BEVs can be charged anytime when they are parked not causing any delay on a road trip like this.
Also fast charging at night will take less time than the morning as the battery is cold soaked through the night, whereas at night the car has been driving so battery is nice and warm so it can charge quicker.
The ID4 from VW has a very nice charging curve to 90%+. The Pro has 270 mile of range, good driver assist, and an accurate range estimator. I'd put that up against the Mach E and other non-Telsa EVs.
ID4 best non Tesla EV. VW said it was developed for road tripping with Electrify America
This was the most information and the most helpful information I have received about EVs and charging
Yup here for the mustache
the first waveform podcast episode I watched start to finish.. interesting insights..
I like how they compared it to usb c and lighting. Nice!
Scary that chargers can still be broken and nothing available for a long ways. Charging stations need some form of redundancy or recovery, in an IT way. Separate circuit, separate source. It should be considered a critical infrastructure system.
Exactly! Or at least show properly what chargers are and aren't working and get fined if they don't show it.
The gas car should have started with only 1/2 a tank of gas and the EVs full. This is realistic with real world where every time you take a trip, your first stop is 5 miles from your house to fill up the gas car or waste time the night before.
Good point, you can’t fill up your gas car in your garage but the EV would be full and ready to go over night.
In my experience using a taycan on 350 watt electrify Canada chargers. From low battery to full takes around 40 minutes
That ping pong sound had me really confused while wearing headphones hgahaha. Great video!
Just finished a 6,500 mile road trip on a LR Model 3.
Very fun & informative video, thanks guys.😀
You can tell you really needed to work hard to say good things about the Ford Mache... because it is the only slight competition to the model Y. Most Mache are more expensive than a Tesla Y also.. but keep up the good work and keep trying with the Ford.
The no pre-planning rule is clearly the reason the Mach E lost by so much. It would have got third anyway, but you didn't have to kneecap it like that. Anyone roadtriping an EV plans out good charging options ahead of time and can also look for station serviceability.
Meh. I just get into my Tesla and set the destination. The in car navigation plots the course. Did several cross country trips this way…no issue.
That's part of the EV experience as it exists currently. For EV's to become mainstream, that process needs to disappear. I think that will happen as the charging network gets built out. Tesla realized years ago that the charging infrastructure is crucial to EV acceptance, so good for them. Hopefully time will cure this problem.
I don't think ev infrastructure will ever match gas station infrastructure because most of ev refueling happens at home. It does need to get more reliable and consistent, but I think ev road trips will always take more planning than gas raod trips. It's not like its difficult to plan stops on a road trip, people have been doing that for years.
When you mention range estimate for the Tesla, please clarify that it's the remaining battery capacity estimated in miles instead of percentage which is obviously based on "perfect conditions" because it doesn't have any other inputs to give a better estimate. However when you use the built in Tesla GPS navigation it gives a much more accurate range since it now takes into consideration the route including elevation changes. So with that said, it's much better to just use percentage as your display for how much battery you have left instead of miles.... in the same way for your phone it's much better to display your battery life as percentage instead of time left.
54:34 That subtle pop up though😂😂😂
I live in so cal and never experienced a line with a Tesla. Super rare . Now go to Costco gas on a Sunday
From my home in Lubbock, Texas the nearest Tesla supercharger is 130 miles away so we've got a long ways to go on building out the charging infrastructure. I've driven Model 3 LR over 70,000 miles and the only time I've waited for a charger ( about 10 minutes) is in Houston on my last road trip.
Amazing podcast 🔥🔥👏👏 Nice road trip 👍
Gas stations aren’t always found in rural locations, especially at night; charging stations are always open; amenities aren’t always available, though.
I considered buying a CCS to Tesla adapter for road trips, but after inspecting 6 EA locations and discovering “out of service” stalls, I decided not to use EA. I returned to a few defective EA stations 7-10 days later and they were still out of service so that tells me their repair service is poor. Some EA locations are a mix of CHAdeMO & CCS with only 2-4 stalls so when one is defective you may have to wait a long time to charge. I’ve never had that problem with Tesla and have taken several road trips including Boston to SW Florida.
Sounds about right, John. My experience with EA was always hit-and-miss. Also, I just heard today that a Tesla owner returned their new CCS adapter since it failed to work on a good portion of DCFC stations. I'd wait for an official Tesla-issued one, and keep using the CHAdeMO in the meantime . . . if Supercharging is absolutely not an option.
Still miss the old music
1:05:51 that would be me and I am super proud about it.
Great episode
Gotta say this since people get thrown off by videos like this: most charging happens at home overnight. You won't be out looking for charging stations every day. Refueling is simpler and more convenient with an EV
What if you live in an apartment complex with no charging available though?
@@andyguerrero7254 then you don't own an EV... More and more complexes are getting chargers, though. First, the people with garages will support the technology, then it spreads along with accessibility
@@brixan... that’s my current issue, I live in an apartment complex & I would like an EV. It be much cheaper than gas considering the amount of driving I do but unfortunately the nearest charging station for me is at a mall a few miles away. Chicago suburbs needs to catch up on EV infrastructure
Agreed. There's also a lot of multiple car families where one might own an EV and the other owns an ICE vehicle. That is currently my situation. On the long road trips we take the ICE. Ideally though in the future I'd like to go all EV. I mean if you are really that worried about it rent an ICE car for trips. Around town the benefits of owning an EV are so so much greater than ICE.
It would have been interesting to a hybrid car in there as well, like a Camry hybrid
Hybrids don’t really do much better than a gas car on the highway, in the city, huge difference, but highway driving the hybrid system is just dead weight for the most part.
35:00 a battery that you can plug in does exist: eco flow. Also, recovery vehicles here in the UK are now starting to be equipped with chargers that can get you going for a few miles e.g. AA
Yeah there are companies that sell batteries specifically for this purpose
I am andrew, just listening to two blokes talk about their expensive electric cars and quality of life, while he/and i just drive a classic subaru that does the job
Basic range estimate in Tesla is nonexistant, however, if you set your navigation to a destination/supercharger, isn't the percent it predicts you will arrive at very accurate?
Just saying that to make the comparision more accurate you should have used a Model Y. Because it is closer in price and size to the other 2 cars
Eastern Iowa to Estes park Colorado in a MY took 14 1/4 hours vs 12 in a gas car.
Can you guys talk about standing desk and chair to help us understand what are the things which we need to consider and your top 5 picks.
Interesting! Nice video ✌️
Which screen did you use on the Tesla to judge the range? The screen on the energy consumption on the Tesla seems to be accurate.
Have been to around -30kms in a Stealth P3 and all good. Except for the stress levels. . .
Marquess I need your take on this whole future motion situation! Help!!
35:00 There's a portable charging system called SparkCharge that can send tow operators with a battery that can fast charge your ev in case you ever run out. I believe they're only on the east coast at the moment but if you need them, they could be a good option.
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if in the future there could be a charge sharing feature between similar model EVs.
Like 2 male plugs and it just shares 10 miles or something. Not sure if it could work, not sure how long it'd take, but feels like a little option for the future.
Edit: for clarification, I mean for if you run out of charge on the side of the road. Sorta an alternative to being towed.
13:23 no it's just that you haven't used the consumption graph, which will give accurate range estimate instead of simple range display based on battery %
Road trips are the best on Cali 🙌🏼
I hope you guys cover the feature Tesla's have where they can predict what percent you'll have when you get to a destination put into the navigation.
Very cool content
My argument against it being less decentralized is it needs to be even more decentralized like gas stations. In many/most places you have two or more options to fill up at.
So long as the charging technology remains unpatented, that competition should crop up sooner or later, regardless of the centralization of Electrify America. For now, in EV's relative commercial infancy, more centralization is necessary for EV's to become viable enough for enough people to buy them, and so competition will naturally crop up to cut into Electrify America's market share. It's a cyclical problem, but one that (for now) requires centralization and unity for non-Tesla EVs.
Mach e charging curve needs to be ironed out. It should match at least what WV ID 4 offers at 80% 66kw and 35kw at 90%. Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ionic 5 will soon bring much needed competition as far as fast charging. Just a heads-up .
"the range estimate is extremely accurate and you get more range than it said it was gonna get"
Does not compute. 🤔
Not doing the destination charging thing is a huge miss to me in this discussion. Gas stations may be everywhere but you can charge EV at a hotel overnight. The talk about what to do at chargers are also good--food and bathroom at chargers are a crap shoot, especially after dinner hours.
The taycan wireless charger is brutal too. It's in the centre console and phones overheat in there :(
Seems like a wonderful video
Cornell Check
Scranton Check
**Happy Nard Dog Noises**
I always set my clock ahead like between 5-7 minutes. My original reasoning was that this way I’m never late. The problem is that I just end up doing the math in my head and arriving at the same time! So I’d end up doing this too with the range on the Mustang. I’d push it past zero, counting on the miscalculation. Honestly rather than going through all that song and dance, just tell me the daym correct number. I think it’s just that there is a flaw in the programming in the algorithm that figures out how much you have left. Then they tried to play it off as done on purpose! “It’s a feature!” Yeah,, right! Just give us correct info Ford! Don’t be lazy!
I get the point but realistically, highly accurate range estimates are just not practical. There's way too many variables that can't be known ahead of time. Being further on the conservative side rather than optimistic just makes sense.
It's impossible for the car to give you the "correct number" because there isn't one! There are too many unknown factors. There is a whole range of possible outcomes depending on the traffic, the weather and the way in which YOU choose to drive. This was driven home to me early on in my experience with the Model 3. A road-trip of 230 miles was grossly impacted by a 40 mph wind. I was surprised at the amount by which the range was impacted by the wind. I had to decrease my speed to reach my destination, but the car had range graphs on the UI to show me how to manage the situation. This is just physics. The effect on a gasoline car would have been the same, but I would have just pulled into a gas station and filled up. Ev's need to get to a dependable, ubiquitous charging infrastructure.
@@jerrywaynerose you make good points. I’m sorry, to ford lol I was wrong, emotional I dunno why. Have a nice day
Quirks lol - nice Doug Demuro animation
Btw high speed rail could make this trip in maybe 5 hours and would use even less energy! Makes you think if such a car centric society like the US is actually a good idea.
in the spirit of team crispy, the focus is actually on the microphone and SLIGHTLY off focus on their faces... I expect more from you marques loll
28:10 Assuming that county map is illustrating EV stations or EV Owners in California, does anyone know exactly which order those colors are in that represent each county?
Let's take fun and scenic road...Can't, do not have charging on the way. :(
Next trip take Zack’s Humvee
Take a shot every time David says "Tezla"
Tesla is actually using CCS in Europe.
How much did you spent on fuel/charge?
Marques and the crew should really try the Comma 3 from Comma AI for self driving for their non-Tesla cars! It's the Android to Tesla's autopilot
check out gears & gasoline for roadtrip filming ideas! they do great roadtrip series. they even do model s vs racecar lol
Y’all came to western New York???? Dammit
The charge rate doesn’t matter nearly as much as the efficiency of the car!!! It’s about what you do with the energy, not how much you put in. This is why Tesla out performs on their network, without needed 350 kilowatts
Cool