Avoid Banding On YouTube | The Best Export Render Settings, Neat Video, Film Grain
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
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I love the way you talk! So clearly and straight to the point with some lovely humor!
Many thanks, means a lot 👍🏻
I was going crazy and this video made me feel sane. It's just UA-cam. A belated thank you!
Enjoy guys, hope you find this helpful 👍 - See comment about 4K on Big Sur. EDIT - Autumn 2021 - My new recommendation for render settings is the HEVC 10-bit mode, it takes forever to render files but they look fantastic!
I think Phillip Bloom did that (add noise) before he uploaded to youtube his A7sIII videos...
There’s so much time put into this video, thank you!
It was a labour of love for sure 😂 many thanks
That video was exactly what i was looking for. Thanks
Thank you for doing that research so we don't have to.
YT is horribly compressing stuff at 1080p, so I even upload non-4K material in 4K just to dupe YT into allocating more bitrate so than tree branches and foliage won't become a blocky blurry mush...
But let's face it - YT is hardly making any profit anyway storing geekabytes of useless cat videos and unfunny vlogs about nothing for billions of dollars in storage costs, while still butchering quality. Can't expect that to change until a new compression codec arrives at the scene.
And 99% of casual users won't notice anyway
Agreed 😏 many thanks, thoughtful stuff
UA-cam indeed have to deal with a lot of crap videos. But they make the problem a hell of a lot worse by them self - because they pay creators for view time and not amount of views. So instead of trying to get the creators to use their storage space effectively (by making short videos rich in content), they do the right opposit and really promote those 30+ minute long uncut, bad edited videos with a lot of filled up content (long intros, repetitions of whats coming later in the videos and similar non sense), that really "eats" both storage space and time for the viewers. Then they compress ALL videos (even the short ones) to shit quality to save space.
This makes me so frustrated. Especially since I just recently uploaded a new year fire work video that had really nice original quality, but once uploaded on UA-cam it got insane banding in the sky with huge blocks - the one he show in this video is nothing in comparison. That's why I came here in the first place to see if there is anything to do about it. But, since I have a crap computer where rendering of a 4 k video that's just a few minutes long takes several hours, I don't feel that excited to spend another day rendering the videos again to get files with without noise reduction just for uploading (because I want the noise reduction on the original files that I want to keep), then don't know for shore they will look good anyway (noise also makes the compression less efficient and tend to increase the blurriness and fuzziness of the video) - so I will probably have to deal with the UA-cam quality at it's worst...
They are just living on being the biggest most known platform to upload content. UA-cam is the first that come up to peoples mind when they want to show videos to the world - even if there is way batter platforms out there. That's why they can treat both creators and viewers like this and get away with it.
Watching a 4K video right now and the banding is terrible.
Try h265 with a higher bitrate like 80Mbs. Be sure to look at the FINAL upload after the 4K is done processing. Don't look at anything below 1080p. The 4K is encoded with vp9 rather than avc1. Noise does nothing as h264 & h256 tends to denoise, and UA-cam also denoises when transcoding. UA-cam will prefer storage space over quality, so at some point, there is nothing you can do to fix it. Also... when you watch your videos, be sure the screen is on Standard, and not Dynamic/Movie/Sport. The final thing to look at is your internet connection. Faster connections = better quality. Right-Click your video on YT, and select Stats for Nerds.
I'm using 4K in h265 at 80Mbps too and it does look good - when played in 4K. When played in lower resolutions... there comes YT compression :-(
@@remetremet yea.. sorry. I have the same issue. Trying viewing it on a different monitor... maybe a TV or Ipad. Sometimes it's just your local settings, and the video looks fine elsewhere. There is no real solid solution as UA-cam will re-enocde your video to save space on their servers.
@@nfrancisj2122 100% agree. The only solution I found is to switch to 4K even on non-4K displays. The only "problem" is higher CPU and bandwidth use. And ofcourse this assumes that uploaded video is of sufficient quality.
Thx very informative and I can empathise wth the gruelling tests and QC workaround attempts etc to make it work on youtube. Banding is one of those things that have been a royal pain ever since the analog days and still no great off shelf plugin solutions etc that I am aware of especially low light or pulsing like 'flame' from candle etc.
thanks for the comparison! learning more and more about it. This will help!
So helpful I was half way through doing these tests as I saw banding and I was trying to work out if it was Neat Noise Reduction or the fact it went from 10 bit to 8 bit etc.. but thanks you did all the work for me :D
Thanks, I’ve tried similar tests and came to a very similar conclusion. PS. 4K support on UA-cam now in the new Safari on Big Sur.
Yes indeed, in my pinned comment 👍🏻
legend has it that having more subs will compel youtube to let your videos be compressed with the vp09 codec
Very interesting. Thank you for conducting this. I did my own similar experiment. I uploaded countless videos and analyzed them meticulously. The best result I achieved was h.265, 4K and sharpening a little bit too much with an unsharp mask, to account for the denoising that occurs during uploading. I also found that film grain broke up some of the banding, as I m shoot mostly in low light, but like you, I found that the amount of grain required to break up banding, does produce an effect that just looks like unwanted noise.
TL;DR: The best settings I found are h.265, upscaled to 4K, sharpened a little bit too much in the editor.
9:21 We don’t even need 10 bit monitors, just 10 bit footage and proper dithering upon playback.
Vlc has this in the output module settings, I use the Bayer pattern. The pattern itself is in invisible to my eyes, unless I take a screenshot and zoom way in. This completely removes banding when used with 10 bit footage, and I don’t even have a 10 bit monitor.
You can also use 10 bit footage with grain synthesis, like AV1 supports as standard. UA-cam should doing all of its AV1 encoding in 10 bit! Even with 8 bit sources
Wow lots of testing and I can imagine a possible headache or 2 in the process. I read somewhere that you have to upload files in higher resolution, so up sampling I think hd into 4K just so YT uses higher bitrate for that clip and causes less banding. I think I found a whole video on it one time but can’t remember where.
Oh god, I uploaded these in 4K! Maybe I should try rendering the files as 8K and see if that makes a difference 😂
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff i think that might be the golden ticket! Try it 🙂
are you joke?😄
Thanks Harv! Yeah the banding in YT is unavoidable because their codec is the problem and there is no way [other than adding noise] to help get around the problem
Adding noise to help with this problem has been a technique that has been around for a while, but as you pointed out... noise is noise [rock > - < hard place] right?
But it’s wonderful of you to put in this much effort and it’s appreciated! Your work here does drive home the adage; “the chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link” and this is unavoidable.
The last remaining concept is to shoot content that is less prone to “banding” ... but I figure thats too much work and creatively limiting at the same time LOL
Such a thoughtful comment, between a rock and hard place was indeed how I felt making it 😅
I think adding noise may make it worse in many cases - because even if it removes the banding, it also introduces a lot random changes between frames in the video, that makes the compression less efficient over all. That will cause the video to lose a lot of sharpness and detail instead (which is worse than the banding in my oppinion). I have uploaded noisy videos before (mostly taken with bad cameras in low light) and the compression makes the degradation (especially introduced blurriness and loss of detail) much worse compared to when uploading a "clean", low noise file.
But, if a very slight static noise (that doesn't change between frames) could be mixed in as an overlay, that could probably work pretty good to break up banding without introducing new problems by random, rapid changes between frames.
@@Speeder84XL
How much noise? What is the nature of said noise? I go back to what I said, “a rock and a hard place”…. So many factors have to be dealt with to yield the best results… balance being the key, and understanding the trade offs, is the unavoidable reality.
@@Studio51media Yes, there might be a sweet spot between avoid banding and the effects of noise. But, that requires many, many video renderings with different settings and reuploads to find that
(which is pretty much undoable if you for example like me, have a slow computer, that takes long time to render videos). The setting may also be specific to particular videos depending on their brightness, color gradients, colors etc. So you might need to redo the work again many times. Too much noise and the video WILL get a blurry mess instead - while "to little" noise is causing nothing, but the banding. UA-cams compression always look like crap more or less anyway, with blurry parts, loss of detail and large "blocks" that's often visible (which in my opinion is worse than the banding) - it's not worth to put that much effort into removing just one particular compression artifact.
What everyone who get paid for their videos (who is partially responsible for the "problem") should do, is to bombard UA-cam with complains about their stupid algorithm that really promote as long (storage space consuming) videos as possible, by for example paying for view time and not views.
It's beyond idiotic that they really waste storage space (along with the viewers time) like that, for no good reason
- then they compress the shit out of the videos to "save space".
@@Speeder84XL
Hmmm interesting perspective, I totally understand and sympathize with the “slow computer” aspect, but I’m also kinda scratching my head on your perspective concerning YT’s overall quality…
So the whole point is that YT’s codec is lossy and causes banding… and everyone agrees, what I’m a bit mystified about is your other comments about loss of quality like blockiness and degraded sharpness?? I upload a lot of 4K footage to YT… and yeah it’s never as stellar as the original but it’s also not THAT bad? At least not as bad I I think? I’m hearing from you. So I’m wondering… what do you upload? As an example I USED to upload big (less compressed) files and then let YT do the compression. Quickly I flipped that and now I try to use a compression that is as close to YT’s as I know how to do? Maybe that could help? Maybe that could get you better results?
Trying to get Google to provide a better service… seems unlikely only because I think they do an incredible job (for what it costs us) and I think they would do better if they could, if only to (more fully) dominate the market? (Personally Google is scary enough, truth be known) so I’m happy enough, just looking for a way to optimize my output on YT… best of luck to you!
Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble it really does help I love your channel keep safe
It was worth it in the end 😅 glad you like the vids
Run into this issue lots in my drone footage in low light.
Its a bit amateur but I mask off where I see most of the noticeable banding using gaussian blur/light screen blend mode and try to find the happy medium where it doesn't look masked and natural sky.
( this doesn't always work for me )
And I thought my new QLED TV has issues . I mean everything looks amazing on the TV from games in HDR to Netflix , UA-cam,etc but I did notice in some videos around UA-cam , specially in dark and sky line banding. Of course this it's rare but I still though my TV could have some issues. I use my TV with my seriesX for everything, gaming, UA-cam, Netflix,etc and all my settings are done well with correct hdmi black leve and so ON.l
Great one Harv... The banding was driving me nuts. Computer is my setting form now one. the other ones are a bit too large of files. Cheers mate
Glad I could help!
thank you for trying!
Is this sort of an effect of dithering(adding noise) to smooth banding ?
It is
Very interesting, thank you.
Thank you, this is going to help me with a project I’m doing. I am going to crop/edge feather an interview subject against a black cloth and add slight noise or grain to the black background only so there’s no ugly banding next to the nice person/ subject on camera. The original shot is too wide and the cloth too small and you can see the wall behind, which is why I want to make everything around him a nice, even black
Very informative, you're a great communicator Harv
Sweet, spot on advice, Thx!
Great Information provided, thank you for the great effort~ Like!
I'm only half way through the video but have you watched the video the MKBHD made where he reuploaded the same video to UA-cam like a hundred times or something? It shows you extremely well how the UA-cam compression works. Anything that's static is compressed and almost "freezed". I'm assuming that the reason noise reduction is making it look worse on UA-cam is because then the sky is so smooth that UA-cam is compressing it and creating the banding. So if you use grain, that keeps the sky "moving" if you get me? That means it'll compress it less.
At least that's a theory :)
The sky being smooth is indeed most of the problem (it doesn't have to do much with movement)
- because even if it is smooth, the color/brightness will still in most cases vary slightly in different parts of it. That means, there will be slow color gradients - which is the worst when it comes to banding. I don't think adding noise is a good idea though
- while it will break up slow color gradients with and prevent banding, noise also makes the compression less efficient and will cause the video to get blurry and fuzzy and lose a lot of detail (which is worse than the banding, in my oppinion).
appreciate your work
Oddly enough, I like some noise reduction banding in the cinematic, low light music video look. I think it has a certain appeal to it. I might just be crazy, though lol
Have you tried super-sizing yet? (upscaling to 6K or 8K).
Yes I have! I’ve been testing Topaz and have been quite impressed. I’ve written some content for it but haven’t continued as it seems like it’s been fairly well covered on YT 👍🏻
It's more about the colours i think, the best would be to use a AI softwere like topaz video enhance AI, which balances the colour to a optimal lvl depending upon the preset ure using. But still topaz also have it's different issue. Mann i really want a better way to solve these bendings😂
You are the guy! Bravo!
Not sure I agree about Vimeo. We have a business account and frequently add 20GB+ files. I just tested a small (
Tim Yemmax..prof colorist on UA-cam..uses free davinci resolve software which allows specific upload controls....has a nice video spelling
Very helpful!! Thank u
🙏🏻
So what was the best codec?
Hi :) I want to ask you: How settings & which codec with parameters I should use for upload to youtube. Especially for TIMELAPSE and FLOWMOTION in my 1440p video source. I want to have nice quality in UA-cam Player - in mode 720p 480p 360p 240p and 160p too. I use DaVinci Resolve & I'm a novice in this theme.
Hi, do these tips apply for 8 bit video?
Hi, yes indeed. Although it’s more about reducing the effect that UA-cam has on your footage once uploaded rather than general tips for avoiding banding 👍🏻
Still banding for me, you need a pretty expensive display to get enough quality to get rid of banding
Bring on 10 bit being the norm 👍🏻
Why am I hearing "Google Crime"?
I wonder if uploading in H.265 would make a difference?
How can you read my mind so well?
😅
Greta video sir. Safari on Big Sur does do 4K on UA-cam sir
They fixed it! Shame most video guys like me are scared to update as it tends to break EVERYTHING 😂
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff Lol. I get it. So far though. so good. Catalina was a nightmare forever. Big Sur has been much better for me so far. I have it on my 16inch 2019 MacBook Pro and my 2019 16 core MacPro. All good.
That’s good to hear, I think I’ll still wait a bit longer as I’m super paranoid 😅
Came into the comments section to say this too 👍
I'm in this same journey of uploading dozens of tests. However I compared my videos to other videos on youtube (with similar lighting), and they dont have as much blockinness and banding as mine, even when exporting with insane bitrates at 1440p, :( What could I do? :(
Upscale to 4k.
Make one of how to export for Instagram ! Thanks
Good idea 👍🏻
Hate to break it to you but all the clips show a very similar level of banding and raster effect when I watch on UA-cam
if youtube banding is predictabe and they know what evel of banding videos get they should add a toggable grain filter since grain limits banding.
All this did was prove that my TV has terrible banding that I never noticed before.
Excellent, well good that the effort is appreciated
Have you tried 8K upload? Ahaha
🤢😂
So there is no solution? got it
Well there’s improvements you can make, the rest is up to UA-cam
@@HarvVideoAudioStuff K then
5:37
Awesome tutorial! Really appreciate it! I make filmmaking related tutorials as well. Any support would mean alot! Thanks again
You won't be Apple Devices, Full Stop? After the release of the M1 Max MacBook Pro, you'll be pretty much the only one on the planet with this attitude, full stop.
The 10 bit render mode wasn’t available when I made this, it’s now my go to (see my pinned comment 👆🏻)
I just dont understand why i have a quality video and when uploaded to utube its crap ? Why so complicated ?