Steer ratio in ac, acc and any other games is not what you guys think. Ratio of 12 for example means actually 12:1 ratio, and that means, with all other thing being equal, like suspension geometry parts, tie rods length etc, that for each 12 degree of steering wheel rotation, you do 1 degrees of wheel rotation. The steering wheel ratio being for example 360 degrees in one direction (so 720 lock to lock) that means (720/12=60) so your wheels turn 30 degrees in one direction and 30 the other. If the car has a lock to lock of 360, 360/12 = 30 degrees of lock, 15 one direction and 15 in the other So in acc, if the lock to lock stays unchanged, for example 360 degrees, changing the ratio, basically is changing the actually wheel steering angles, so full 360 / 12 = 30 (15-15) or 360 / 14 = 25.7(12-12), 360 / 8 = 45 (22.5-22.5) Idk what all race cars do, or what are they allowed to change, but im pretty sure the ratio is allowed and not the steering wheel rotation, because of the wiring and all that stuff on the actually steering wheel. So basically if you wanna change steering lock or steering wheel lock, both settings need to be adjusted...idk if all games have both options in the pits. In terms of car feel, in a gt3 car, which i think use 360 lock to lock, going with a smaller ratio like 10:1, you will have more wheel angle, and depending on your driving style, more understeer, or more precisely, more chance to go into understeer, but more responsiveness and initial turn in. Basically you do less steering for more turn in Go with a bigger ratio, of 18:1, and you get less wheel angle, so you need to steer a lot more for the same turn in, and less chance to understeer, but also harder to catch a slide quick enough to not spin. All that being said, no, acc is not wrong, it's not an error, it's just that those gt3 cars or whatever class they are, have no steering wheel rotation adjustment, only steering rack ratio. They kinda need to be "realistic". In other games, of you can change steering wheel rotation in the pits, for a gt3 car, is not "realistic"
The Ferrari 296 GT3 becomes quite the drift-car with a round rim at the lowest ratio with its high steering wheel rotation. When losing the rear, just let the round rim run into opposite lock and catch the slide. It's a bit hilarious but I have to admit, that it saved a few races for me by now since changing to a round wheel 😂
That's what improve my times in nurburgring i'm done lowest steering ratio and feel car much better even on Porsche i'm feel better with lowest steering ratio and feeling of car much better, thanks Nils for the knowledge.
To clarify for those struggling with this... A ratio should by rights include two numbers, eg 2 to 1. In this case we are changing between 20 to 1 and 14 to 1 (1 could be other arbitrary number). Obviously 1 is a bigger fraction of 14 than 20, so you can imagine that if the amount of wheel movement was fixed, all that would happen is you would require less turns to get there, what ACC has done is NOT fixed the rotation amount, but also allowed that to increase by the same ratio. The effect is similar to what you'd expect, a more responsive steering, but the UNdesired effect is that it changes the maximum steering angle. It's just a simple math error in the code, where the ratio is being applied not only to the steering speed, but also to the maximum deflection of the wheels at the same time.
Thats exactly the problem. Your steer lock is a function of steering ratio, since from a setup POV you don’t want to allow crazy angles on the tyres due to shredding/tyre wear/slip angles, etc. Basically if you have a faster steering ratio (at the steering rack), you would also have lesser rotation available on the steering wheel from lock to lock. Else, the wheels would start colliding with body work, and also shred the tyres.
Basically, note to devs: you cant fix a specific steering lock for every car and then allow people to decide how fast their steering rack is! The steering lock should be decided based on steering ratio. The two are definitely not independent of each other.
Hey Nils, vielen Dank das du eine neue Erklärungsreihe an Videos erstellst 👍🏽. Ich finde es super das du die einzelnen Funktionen erklärst und die Auswirkungen zeigst. Auch das FOV Video war der Hammer und hat mein ACC Erlebnis um einiges verbessert und meine Rundenzeiten auch. Wenn man selbst an den Werten dreht ist es immer schwierig die Auswirkung zu sehen, weil man teilsweise garnicht weiß was jetzt hier anders sein soll, oder was diese Werte bedeuten. Gerade weil ACC doch seine eigenen Physiks hat und manchens nicht ganz der Realität entspricht. Auch wenn ich mir mit den englisch sprachigen Videos etwas schwer tu, und mir manchmal einen deutschen Untertitel wünsche, weiß ich letztendlich doch was du meinst 😉. Danke das du dir die Zeit nimmst um das so ausführlich und anschaulich darzustellen 😍. Ich fahr selbst den M4 bei der LFM und Versuch in jeden stream von dir zu lernen. Hoffentlich kommen noch viele Videos zu einzelnen Setup Funktionen und ihre Auswirkungen. Vielen Dank Nils und viele Grüße 🙏
Side note: this video SAVED MY LIFE in AMS2. I am used to PCars2 and AMS2 has just the opposite logic for steer ration. Therefore I was driving aim AMS with min wheel lock and was wondering why I didn´t get around corners... Thanks, Nils!
They need sprite collision, inside the wheel arch, that will make the ffb wheel lock/freeze, when the tire hits the wheel arches, and it should have a corresponding sound and tire wear and possibly smoke. : )
Correction on the steering explanation for rF2. Some cars adjust both the steering lock (peak tyre angle) and the physical steering wheel range (if you don't have manual wheel range setting). You can also have the car set up to just change either of those settings. In the example you are showing, the car changes both steering lock and wheel range. The number in the brackets is the steering lock and not the steering ratio.
Thanks for that! yeah in rf2 you just have to know apparently, cause it does not properly tell you :D i checked a few cars, hence i thought its global.
Yes, as everything is with rF2. Just need to figure it out yourself. Generally cars are either done with the method that's shown in the example or just steering ratio setting - which just alters your steering wheel range. The possibility to check the dynamic toe angles in the telemetry makes it easy to figure out what the setup option does.@@SimracingPopometer
What a timing, just so happens I was testing this in the Honda yesterday while looking for a way to save the car from drifting, because usually the Honda lacks the wheel lock. You just counter steer to the maximum and it's just not enough for the car and you can't do anything.
I think this feature is good for tuning when you are using a different size steering wheel on your sim set up. For example a 270mm steering wheel would need a different setting compared to a 320mm steering wheel.
90° are 90°. Though, for 90° your hands would travel about 21cm for a quarter turn on a 270mm rim, and 25cm on a 320mm rim. And yes, 21cm are quicker to cover than 25cm. and yes (and I didnt say otherwise?), it is intended to be used to speed up the steering - this part works. But the point of the video is still: we get too much steering angle on the tire - a hard limit is missing.
Thanks for the very balanced video! For me, I just have a range between 42-55° where I don't get dizzy/motion sick from driving longer stints. It actually doesn't matter if it's triples between Wheelbase and Wheel or a single screen at 90cm on a desk. Only when the monitor becomes so big, that the calculates FOV would be higher than 55, I need even higher values. But I only once sat in a Rig with a beamer to a wall, so not really relevant...
Well said and explaines as always✌️. I hope after watching this video, ACC drivers start to care less about the exact steering angle per car, other than set their wheel in the base and in the game to the max available and then try to adapt their setup from the steering ratio the way they like it.
this was one mystery for me in acc thx for clarifying. please keep posting these in depth info for the settings. maybe video about clipping or how to read the weather app :D
Only two mechanical parameters matters: 1) The radius of the pinion gear on steering wheel shaft (decides the rate) and 2) The the length of the cog row of the steering rack (decides the peak tyre angle). That means that one parameter value in the setup menu is not sufficient.
Great explanation. Care to comment further? Question being, how do you determine the optimal steer ratio for particular car? ( avoiding understeer as a result of to much steer angle ) Cheers
I think it's preference. I'd use it to counter the general attitude of the car. very responsive cars like Ferrari or Porsche need a higher ratio. very sluggish cars like most front engine cars feel more agile with a lower ratio
So we need the sim to tell the wheelbase (driver) where the soft lock should be? Else we would get weird dead zones on the ends where the simulated car wheels are against the limit.
@@SimracingPopometerBut what should you expect to feel in the wheel when you hit that physical limit of the car wheel at say, 170 degrees steering input when you have set the wheelbase to 360 total rotation? Wouldn't that leave a 10 degree space on each end before you feel the soft lock imposed by the wheelbase driver? Or can the game create these soft locks just by force feedback data sent to the wheelbase (driver)?
whilst the higher steering ratio makes it harder to catch slides/spins, I find the lower steering ratio makes some cars far too sensitive on turn in and induces sliding/spinning.
Now it makes sense how I can save and throw around my Ferrari much more consistently than any other car. In terms of laptimes I can get it same with 14 and 15 ratios but in racing I always feel better off with 14 as it feels like I have much more of a car under my hands. I always thought ratios in acc worked same way like rf2 or iR because that seems logical. You have been dropping some amazing content latetly, keep it up its super intresting!
Hey Nils, good point! I'd put not that much attention to the steering lock in the setup as I should have it seems. I've always felt a little uncomfordable related to this and car behaviour on track. I'd found a list (quiet a while ago btw. from another Ytuber with sim content) how to setup your steering angle in the "wheel-setup" for "each" car, for example 480° for the Macca etc., but related to car behaviour on track to me this makes no sense now, except the fact to feel comfortable how much you have to rotate your wheel in general. So will it make sense to use a low angle setting in enduranse races because of less tire degradation?
degredation is only affected if you end up turning too much. as long as you listen to the car and the tires, there's no need to turn more than there is grip available - regardless of the ratio. if you are (and most people are outside the top 1%) a little numb to what the tire is telling you, then there is at least a chance you will steer too much with low ratio. your front tire wear will tell the story.
Well true, numbness doesn't help in any way😁Overdriving the car doesn't help either. Thx for answering, keep up your good work, cheers@@SimracingPopometer
I have to ask it is normal in nurb turn 1 to steer like a full circle on the wheel? Happens the same in the lambo and mclaren with minimum steer ratio and I feel like it gets worse once I touch a car no matter if I'm playing with damage off. its kinda weird tbh
maximum you'll need in the tightest hairpins is 180° - more is unnecessary. unless your steering wheel is calibrated wrong and is not turning in sync with the virtual wheel in the car
only if you steer too much. with lower ratio you will have the same angle on the tire with less steering input. so it becomes more sensitive and youll have to be more careful
If you change the rack ratio, the roadwheel steering angle will change as well. AC/ACC are correct in this. It is not always a given that the roadwheel angle is maintained, and usually when they are it is via artificial methods like steering rack extenders, bumpstops on the control arm or rack etc. The only real other way is with nonlinearity or changing the active rack gearing length. You can also change it via suspension geometry, maintaining the rack rotation but changing the steering geometry; this is not what ACC is doing. Sometimes ackerman is adjustable on racecars, though. I'm not sure if GT3 cars change internal rack ratio then limit the output angle with some kind of limiter, or if they swap in entirely shorter racks to get lower degrees of handwheel steering, or if they just let the roadwheels change angle if rack is changed.
the point is not about the how - any sim is simplifying things as long as they work as intended - it's about the max lock on the tire being way too much and outside what's (or should be) mechanically possible. this is more than my road car has. btw in AC you don't have an adjustment at all
@@SimracingPopometer How many degrees is it in telemetry? I never found any cars with excessive angles, but it will differ on a model basis. In AC there isn't any adjustment because AI breaks if you adjust steering ratio. It is still like that in heavily modded AC. They did something in ACC to get around it.
ACC's telemetry out has no toe channel. i dont know what you mean. we dont get that info as an actual channel. we only have "tire contact heading" in shared memory.
This side effect has some sort of impact though in slow corners you can turn in more, setup the car in a more sensitive manner and save it from oversteer with minimal input and high speed. I bet most of the Pros have low steering inputs. Thing is, you dive into this and discover the issue. Can you imagine how many of these shortcuts are coded into ACC (and other sims) that limit the realism?
even on highest ratio the tire lock is enough to drive even the slowest corners at the highest possible speed. that's not an advantage of this setting. it's solely about response (the realistic part) and the excessive max tire lock (slightly unrealistic)
I'd argue that steering ratio is even at pro level 100% personal preference. You can look at it like mouse sensitivity in shooter games. Some people like to give fast responsive inputs, where you have to be really precise, as you otherwise under- or overdrive the car, while others like slower inputs which need more range, but in return give you more room for minor errors in the steering, which can perhaps make you more consistent. If it wouldnt be for my teammates I would also drive with a somewhat higher steering ratio in ACC 😄
But does that really happen sense you can change the amount the steering wheel can rotate. In the controls settings you can adjust 720 or 900 or what ever you want. So is it still the same problem when that setting is changed?
Agree, however, people do try to set up the with what the real world cars have as steering ratio, which again like you said. It defeats the purpose. Ty for the education on steering ratio and steering lock.
Great video again Nils! Woul be interesting to know what a „realistic“ implementation of the steer ratio would look like. But i doubt that we will see any changes in Acc anymore Off topic: The bs+ livery looks gorgeous on the Audi, any chance it is available to download somewhere?
From a programmer perspective I can see how this is a mistake that is easily done: You have a certain steer lock, and the ratio is just a modifier on that which then results in this effect. Code done, ship it :D I'm just curious how the "correct" implementation would look then. Because if the max angle should be the same with different ratios but the ratio should still speed up the steering, doesn't that result in a non-linear steering input? Or will it just limit either the tyre or steering wheel lock at a certain point resulting in a different amount of potential max steering wheel input?
agree, just a simple way to get the desired effect with a bit of a unwanted side effect. Rf2 has the correct way. and potentially there are cars where you can change the end stop on tire level like ams2. no nonlinearity from that but as you say something has to change, either max tire lock or max steering wheel lock like in rf2
The problem is that ACC has 5 years, lots of developers and lots of money. And this kind of things still exists. The same with FFB, not the best on the industry, to say the least !
on the plus side people don't get confused with having to change their steering wheel calibration depending on steer ratio. I guess it's an issue with various factors that led to that design choice.
The fix of the implementation should be to replicate the geometry of the steering bar (at the risk of stating the obvious). I'd say keep the linearity and just cap the maximum and minimum, because the geometric transformation between two rotations (steering wheel to rim) is likely linear. The fact that the number is literally a fixed *ratio* indicates linearity.
Maximum steering angle is limited by the suspension geometry and clearence in the wheel well, and is enforced by the end stops in the steering box. So the correct result would be that a higher sensitivity (lower gearing ratio in the box) results in fewer turns of the steering wheel to get the same steering angle. The maximum steering angle stays the same. Obviously the steering wheels range of rotation then has to decrease as steering ratio is lowered or we are breaking the laws of physics.
So for the best of both worlds you could set it to the lowest value and then adjust your steering wheel control panel and increase the total degrees possible. It would be possible to keep the ratio that is preferable to you and just have extra lock in case it is ever needed, like on the odd wet drift in the 992 cup car as an example.
i don't understand why you present this as an issue here, but not in AMS2. At 3:59 you show the max angle, yet not measure it to know exactly how much it is? Cuz it's actually around 360/12=30 degrees, which u claim to be unrealistic, yet you don't think that 28 degrees is unrealistic in AMS2?
yes totally, you are of course not driving this way normally. but it still shows that you can catch a car in out of comfort situations when you shouldnt be able to
I doubt real racing cars (GT3's) have the option to change steering rack or tie rod ancor points to change this ratio anyway? I tend to go for a lowish ratio on ACC as I guess most do, but not tofu delivery mode..
@@SimracingPopometer iR car setups are tremendously flawed for just about every single car, as is the case with most other consumer sims anyway. I wouldn't really use that as a data point for making any inferences. The likely reason for lacking geometry adjustments is usually because the engine can't do it in realtime without breaking, anyway. Most sims can't.
So technically speaking if you choose the higher steering angle so the slider all the way to the left does this not mean we can create more rotation with the same amount of steering input be aye the tyres a pointing more into the corner for same amount of steering input?! You know what I mean? Like we can gain a false amount of extra rotation if we can live with the sensitivity of the car. mrotation in the car like a hack? Basically a rotation hack.?! Or am I understanding this wrong?
you are getting it slightly wrong. the tire will not produce more grip just because you steer more. I mean, you know that unless you always turn the wheel to the very maximum every corner? the limit of the tire is much earlier than the maximum steering. for an actual corner you never need more than 90° on the steering wheel, or 180° in very tight corners, translating to something like 5-10° on the tire. so this excessive angles on the tire don't help us in terms of grip or rotation. the speed of steering is the important and realistic part in terms of function, but the way its implemented in ACC it produces very large angles on the tire when going to maximum steering, which has a side effect of being able to drift the cars at angles you shouldnt be able to. but there's no "cheat" available through it
I guess you either need to fix maximum steering wheel lock or maximum wheel lock. I can see why kunos fixed steering wheel lock and adjust wheel angle, otherwise you lose steering wheel angle range (so your 720° becomes 660° or whatever if you reduce steering ratio). It must be a conscious decision on how to approach these parameters. I don't think think it's necessarily wrong, unless as you suggest we are able to reach unrealistic steer angles. However, i have definitely seen evidence of tyre rubbing at full lock in real life... But as you say it's only an issue at extreme wheel angles that I'm guessing you would never actually use in proper racing anyway
yes, agree fully really. my wheel scrubbing the chassis is probably a bad example cause it happens at low angles already, so its more a 3D model issue or whatever freedom the tire has there... but im fairly certain the maximum tire angle we are getting is just too much, given you can keep doing full lock U-turns with a GT3 on a narrow race track :D
There's some major flaws with ACCs steering characteristics and they have gotten worse with 1.9. The fact you can change the steering ratio along with the steering lock (460 to 800) and Caster creates a huge advantage for those who understand how to take advantage of it! It's similar to the whole minimum mechanical grip settings options that allows some cars to get more grip at corner exit. This allows players to not only have an unrealistic amount of tire rotation but it also creates an unrealistic amount of rotation! This is why so many people move the Caster Slider all the way to the max and the steering ratio to the minimum. This not only gives you more tire rotation with less steering wheel movement, but it also gives you more camber taking it way past -4 on the front! This helps get rid of that weird steering feeling like the car is riding on the edge of its tire(losing all grip) when you turn the steering wheel! Moving the Caster way to the right helps make cars steering feel similar.. Overall there's several issues that make ACC feel very unrealistic which is exactly why people use those very settings. The ability to use 0 or 1 TC in cars like the Audi and McLaren make them significantly faster from apex to corner exit.. Yesterday I compared the replay of the LFM races I did! I decided to try LFMs new BOP and used the BMW and Bentley at Silverstone instead of the McLaren!! In the Bentley (which is -40kg) my apex speeds were identical to the 1st and 2nd place drivers but my corner exit speeds were a few MPH slower at the identical point in corner exit even though we all got on the throttle at the same exact point!!! Watching the replay of the guy using the Audi he was switching between 1 and 0 on the TV setting allowing him to accelerate faster thus be a few tenths faster per lap! I've never messed with the whole changing TC to 0 at corner exit.. however I did notice I could change the TC to 0 in the BMW for entire sectors and not have to worry about tire spin!! Overall there many many fundamental issues that make the game unrealistic. This is exactly why so many people use the McLaren Evo... I spent last night practicing in the BMW at Barcelona and no matter what I did I was stuck in the high 1:44's. Like 1:44.7. Now I don't expect to be as fast in the BMW as I am in the McLaren due to knowing the McLaren better. But at the same time I felt like I had more grip in the BMW yet when I hopped back into the McLaren I was instantly faster down in the low 1:44s and in all reality I can probably get into the 1:43's with some more adjustments to the car set up!! Idk why ACC is so unrealistic when it comes to braking points and corner exits in certain vehicles but that's just the way it is and it got worse with the 1.9 update... The funny thing is I've been saying the 1.9 update has been the worst by far since it first came out while other people defended it (you for example)! Now that people have more time with 1.9 they are realizing how broken it truly is! I shouldn't have to move my Caster Slider way to the right to get rid of that weird steering loss of grip you get with the front tires and under no circumstances should anyone be able to use 0 TC in any vehicle. Ask any real life GT3 driver who does sim racing and they will tell you the cars are almost impossible to drive with 0 TC. James mentioned this when he drove at Spa IRL. In his video he said "At the least they were using TC2" on certain parts of the track but NEVER 0 Unfortunately no game/sim will ever be perfect due to having to be compatible with a dozen different manufacturers equipment (wheel bases, wheels and pedals). However I do believe ACC could be much better with a few minor adjustments. 1 being how quickly the rear tires degrade using traditional mechanical grip and damping settings! With out using Exploit damping and mechanical grip settings the rear tires are destroyed after 25 min. Even in the LFM sprint races you see people's lap times falling off a cliff twds the end of the race while others don't. This is the difference between using the exploit settings vs the non exploit settings. For example I did a practice race yesterday vs the AI in the McLaren starting 24 of 24 cars at 100% AI at Barcelona.. Instead of my lap times falling off at the end of the race, they were getting faster.. Had I used more traditional damping and a Mechanical grip settings my tires would have been shot and my laptimes getting slower! Instead of making it so people must use exploit settings ACC can simply fix the tire degradation issue. I'm pretty sure a GT3 car doesn't destroy it's tires in 7 or 8 laps! Especially since they often do endurance races where they go a full 60 90 min stint before coming into the Pit
So guys, I've tried to watch the video 2 or 3 times and Im a bit confused. Quick conclusion is: in ACC this setting is doing the opposite thing . The more degrees we set the car, than less tire rotation ( left to right ) we have, and vice versa. Correct me if Im wrong. Please )
steer ratio is not a degree setting. it's just a big and a small gear connecting steering and tire. change the ratio (the amount of teeth on a gear) between these two and the amount of movement on one end will affect the amount of movement on the other end. acc doesn't do it the opposite way. it's just doing it a different way to get to the same result + side effect
A ratio should by rights include two numbers, eg 2 to 1. In this case we are changing between 20 to 1 and 14 to 1. Obviously 1 is a bigger fraction of 14 than 20, so you can imagine that if the amount of wheel movement was fixed, all that would happen is you would require less turns to get there, what ACC has done is NOT fixed the rotation amount, but also allowed that to increase by the same ratio. The effect is similar to what you'd expect, a more responsive steering, but the UNdesired effect is that it changes the maximum steering angle. It's just a simple math error in the code, where the ratio is being applied not only to the steering angle, but also to the maximum deflection of the wheels at the same time.
Odd game design decision! With enough tire angle, anything can become a drift car. Big wheel arches I would assume are bad for aero drag and lift. One of THE differences between road and race cars is the lack of lock. If you can get round the tightest hairpin on the calendar, why have more lock available?
Why are people commenting this will never be addressed? Is ACC EOL now? I thought there was more dlc coming, so don't see why we couldn't get updates on core game
Quite amusing how detached from reality simracing sometimes is. Nobody seems to know how it is done in a real car. Hard to google simple facts like this, too. ChatGPT even claims that some GT3 cars have real-time adjustable steering lock ;-) Could someone just ask Aris? (But what if he doesn't know either)
and then us as the general public are very detached from how game development works. its highly unlikely its about them not knowing what they do, but having made a simplified design choice for a reason (you can argue if its a good one of course :D). the general purpose of having faster steering works, just that we have a side effect with excessive max lock
@@SimracingPopometer ich hab viel mehr movement im Auto und komme besser um die Ecken ich weiß verrückt aber eben angeschaut und aufm lfm server getestet 😂
@@hochleistungsspielzeug verrückt ist's nicht. die Lehre daraus ist aber eigentlich, dass du auch mit höherer Ratio einfach nur schneller lenken müsstest ;) mit niedriger Ratio geht dir halt etwas Präzision flöten. und eventuell lenkst du auch zu viel hier und da und hast mehr Verschleiß
@@SimracingPopometer i agree, but there are things pretty weird in ACC, suspensions not working as real suspensions, untouchable curbs, handling so unnatural
@pierluigivinci6777 I'd say handling is pretty good unless you go for exploit setups. the tires especially with TC off now are talkative and good to attack while putting the car in the state you want without being too lenient
@@pierluigivinci6777 Why (and why modern specifically?)? A hard to drive car is a car hard to sell. GT3s are designed for people who are NOT racing drivers. For rich people to be able to enjoy an expensive hobby. A car you often crash is even more expensive. Even if the drivers are rich, they still want to be sensible. The cars are much more forgiving than you think. How many self induced spins do you see watching GT3 races? Exactly.
Das ganze SPIEL ! ist doch verpatcht... hab mit 1.8 aufgehört zu spielen. Um so mehr ich bei dir sehe ( TC0 usw....) was alles nicht stimmt in den Videos um so mehr bin ich froh das ich von ACC weg bin. Trotzdem Danke Nils :D solltest das Video vielleicht mal den Devs schicken/zeigen.... werden dann eh sagen "ist nur optisch" KEKW
Naja, mit so schwarz weiß Aussagen bin ich ja eher vorsichtig ;) Manche Dinge passen, manche nicht, manche sind komplizierter. TC 0 gibt es auch in echt. vielleicht nur nicht ganz so notwendig - aber das muss nicht an der Simulation, sondern kann auch am level der simracer liegen
Für mich ist acc seit 1.9 tot. Fühlt sich einfach falsch an. Schwammig, nicht mehr knackig wie noch vor 1.8. ich habs vor 1.8 geliebt und 1.8 noch mitgemacht, aber seit 1.9 macht es gar keinen Spaß mehr. Bin grad dabei rfactor2 wieder eine Chance gegeben und fahre noch gtp in iracing. Auch wenn das auch nicht das gelbe vom ei ist fühl ich mich deutlich wohler im Auto, mehr connected.
@@MM-mx8srist schon komisch, weil ich habe den unterschied nie als so groß zwischen den patches empfunden. ich will hier mitnichten sagen, dass in acc grundsätzlich alles falsch ist. es geht hier eigentlich nur um einen kleinen teil der anders umgesetzt ist als in anderen spielen und der in extremsituationen zu viel lenkeinschlag erlaubt - für's allgemeine fahren ist das völlig irrelevant
@@SimracingPopometerja ich weiß dass es gar nicht viel ist, aber nachdem ich 2,5 Jahre ausschließlich acc gefahren bin hat es mit 1.9 tatsächlich einfach keinen Spaß mehr gemacht, keine Ahnung warum genau. Dazu kommt dass extreme Setups immer noch das ding sind, was heißt dass mit der Physik etwas nicht stimmt. Ich weiß das ist irgendwie in jeder sim ein Problem. Grundsätzlich fühle ich mich nach mehr als 2 Jahren ohne iracing da jetzt deutlich wohler als in acc. Aktuell probiere ich rf2 nochmal etwas aus. Acc mache ich immer mal wieder an, aber es kommt immer sofort das Gefühl: nein, ich habe kein Gefühl fürs Auto, bin nicht wirklich verbunden. Das ist in iracing für mich momentan tatsächlich besser, und ich bin dadurch auch schneller in relation zu den ganz schnellen.
no, as it makes the car very sensitive, it requires the driver to be very precise, which makes it more difficult. on a sluggish car the low ratio can help to make it more responsive, on a already responsive car a higher ratio can help tame it. the video is more about the fact that the way the implementation works it results in unrealistically high maximum angles on the tire (they are completely useless for correct driving though).
There are still so many problems with racing games, they would do better as ....to work together to get the bugs out of the software and hardware, but by protecting their own ecosystem and fighting legal battles, it will take a long time for better solutions
these issues are very individual in each game. its clearly just a much simplified implementation here with a side effect, that doesn't come into play during normal driving scenarios.
Steer ratio in ac, acc and any other games is not what you guys think.
Ratio of 12 for example means actually 12:1 ratio, and that means, with all other thing being equal, like suspension geometry parts, tie rods length etc, that for each 12 degree of steering wheel rotation, you do 1 degrees of wheel rotation.
The steering wheel ratio being for example 360 degrees in one direction (so 720 lock to lock) that means (720/12=60) so your wheels turn 30 degrees in one direction and 30 the other.
If the car has a lock to lock of 360, 360/12 = 30 degrees of lock, 15 one direction and 15 in the other
So in acc, if the lock to lock stays unchanged, for example 360 degrees, changing the ratio, basically is changing the actually wheel steering angles, so full 360 / 12 = 30 (15-15) or 360 / 14 = 25.7(12-12), 360 / 8 = 45 (22.5-22.5)
Idk what all race cars do, or what are they allowed to change, but im pretty sure the ratio is allowed and not the steering wheel rotation, because of the wiring and all that stuff on the actually steering wheel.
So basically if you wanna change steering lock or steering wheel lock, both settings need to be adjusted...idk if all games have both options in the pits.
In terms of car feel, in a gt3 car, which i think use 360 lock to lock, going with a smaller ratio like 10:1, you will have more wheel angle, and depending on your driving style, more understeer, or more precisely, more chance to go into understeer, but more responsiveness and initial turn in. Basically you do less steering for more turn in
Go with a bigger ratio, of 18:1, and you get less wheel angle, so you need to steer a lot more for the same turn in, and less chance to understeer, but also harder to catch a slide quick enough to not spin.
All that being said, no, acc is not wrong, it's not an error, it's just that those gt3 cars or whatever class they are, have no steering wheel rotation adjustment, only steering rack ratio. They kinda need to be "realistic". In other games, of you can change steering wheel rotation in the pits, for a gt3 car, is not "realistic"
The Ferrari 296 GT3 becomes quite the drift-car with a round rim at the lowest ratio with its high steering wheel rotation. When losing the rear, just let the round rim run into opposite lock and catch the slide. It's a bit hilarious but I have to admit, that it saved a few races for me by now since changing to a round wheel 😂
That's what improve my times in nurburgring i'm done lowest steering ratio and feel car much better even on Porsche i'm feel better with lowest steering ratio and feeling of car much better, thanks Nils for the knowledge.
To clarify for those struggling with this... A ratio should by rights include two numbers, eg 2 to 1. In this case we are changing between 20 to 1 and 14 to 1 (1 could be other arbitrary number). Obviously 1 is a bigger fraction of 14 than 20, so you can imagine that if the amount of wheel movement was fixed, all that would happen is you would require less turns to get there, what ACC has done is NOT fixed the rotation amount, but also allowed that to increase by the same ratio. The effect is similar to what you'd expect, a more responsive steering, but the UNdesired effect is that it changes the maximum steering angle. It's just a simple math error in the code, where the ratio is being applied not only to the steering speed, but also to the maximum deflection of the wheels at the same time.
thx for clarifing ... nothing
Thats exactly the problem. Your steer lock is a function of steering ratio, since from a setup POV you don’t want to allow crazy angles on the tyres due to shredding/tyre wear/slip angles, etc.
Basically if you have a faster steering ratio (at the steering rack), you would also have lesser rotation available on the steering wheel from lock to lock.
Else, the wheels would start colliding with body work, and also shred the tyres.
Basically, note to devs: you cant fix a specific steering lock for every car and then allow people to decide how fast their steering rack is!
The steering lock should be decided based on steering ratio. The two are definitely not independent of each other.
@@AtomicAndi you're a simpleton.
Hey Nils, vielen Dank das du eine neue Erklärungsreihe an Videos erstellst 👍🏽.
Ich finde es super das du die einzelnen Funktionen erklärst und die Auswirkungen zeigst.
Auch das FOV Video war der Hammer und hat mein ACC Erlebnis um einiges verbessert und meine Rundenzeiten auch.
Wenn man selbst an den Werten dreht ist es immer schwierig die Auswirkung zu sehen, weil man teilsweise garnicht weiß was jetzt hier anders sein soll, oder was diese Werte bedeuten.
Gerade weil ACC doch seine eigenen Physiks hat und manchens nicht ganz der Realität entspricht.
Auch wenn ich mir mit den englisch sprachigen Videos etwas schwer tu, und mir manchmal einen deutschen Untertitel wünsche, weiß ich letztendlich doch was du meinst 😉.
Danke das du dir die Zeit nimmst um das so ausführlich und anschaulich darzustellen 😍.
Ich fahr selbst den M4 bei der LFM und Versuch in jeden stream von dir zu lernen.
Hoffentlich kommen noch viele Videos zu einzelnen Setup Funktionen und ihre Auswirkungen.
Vielen Dank Nils und viele Grüße 🙏
Geht mir genauso, aber dafür gibts ja untertitel die automatisch übersetzen😊
Side note: this video SAVED MY LIFE in AMS2. I am used to PCars2 and AMS2 has just the opposite logic for steer ration. Therefore I was driving aim AMS with min wheel lock and was wondering why I didn´t get around corners... Thanks, Nils!
rather a coincidence :D
They need sprite collision, inside the wheel arch, that will make the ffb wheel lock/freeze, when the tire hits the wheel arches, and it should have a corresponding sound and tire wear and possibly smoke. : )
you don't need that complexity for it. a hard limit in the cars properties in form of a number would do
Correction on the steering explanation for rF2.
Some cars adjust both the steering lock (peak tyre angle) and the physical steering wheel range (if you don't have manual wheel range setting). You can also have the car set up to just change either of those settings.
In the example you are showing, the car changes both steering lock and wheel range. The number in the brackets is the steering lock and not the steering ratio.
Thanks for that! yeah in rf2 you just have to know apparently, cause it does not properly tell you :D
i checked a few cars, hence i thought its global.
Yes, as everything is with rF2. Just need to figure it out yourself.
Generally cars are either done with the method that's shown in the example or just steering ratio setting - which just alters your steering wheel range.
The possibility to check the dynamic toe angles in the telemetry makes it easy to figure out what the setup option does.@@SimracingPopometer
What a timing, just so happens I was testing this in the Honda yesterday while looking for a way to save the car from drifting, because usually the Honda lacks the wheel lock. You just counter steer to the maximum and it's just not enough for the car and you can't do anything.
I think this feature is good for tuning when you are using a different size steering wheel on your sim set up. For example a 270mm steering wheel would need a different setting compared to a 320mm steering wheel.
90° are 90°. Though, for 90° your hands would travel about 21cm for a quarter turn on a 270mm rim, and 25cm on a 320mm rim.
And yes, 21cm are quicker to cover than 25cm. and yes (and I didnt say otherwise?), it is intended to be used to speed up the steering - this part works. But the point of the video is still: we get too much steering angle on the tire - a hard limit is missing.
Thanks for the very balanced video! For me, I just have a range between 42-55° where I don't get dizzy/motion sick from driving longer stints. It actually doesn't matter if it's triples between Wheelbase and Wheel or a single screen at 90cm on a desk.
Only when the monitor becomes so big, that the calculates FOV would be higher than 55, I need even higher values. But I only once sat in a Rig with a beamer to a wall, so not really relevant...
Well said and explaines as always✌️.
I hope after watching this video, ACC drivers start to care less about the exact steering angle per car, other than set their wheel in the base and in the game to the max available and then try to adapt their setup from the steering ratio the way they like it.
this was one mystery for me in acc thx for clarifying. please keep posting these in depth info for the settings. maybe video about clipping or how to read the weather app :D
Only two mechanical parameters matters: 1) The radius of the pinion gear on steering wheel shaft (decides the rate) and 2) The the length of the cog row of the steering rack (decides the peak tyre angle). That means that one parameter value in the setup menu is not sufficient.
Ive never understood this in ACC...the ratio should affect the speed of the rack not the the amount the wheels turn.
RF2 is true to life ..
It does affect speed because you still turn your steering wheel the same amount and get more angle in your tire.
Great explanation. Care to comment further? Question being, how do you determine the optimal steer ratio for particular car?
( avoiding understeer as a result of to much steer angle ) Cheers
I think it's preference. I'd use it to counter the general attitude of the car. very responsive cars like Ferrari or Porsche need a higher ratio. very sluggish cars like most front engine cars feel more agile with a lower ratio
So we need the sim to tell the wheelbase (driver) where the soft lock should be? Else we would get weird dead zones on the ends where the simulated car wheels are against the limit.
no, the car simply lacks a physical limit to the tire lock
@@SimracingPopometerBut what should you expect to feel in the wheel when you hit that physical limit of the car wheel at say, 170 degrees steering input when you have set the wheelbase to 360 total rotation? Wouldn't that leave a 10 degree space on each end before you feel the soft lock imposed by the wheelbase driver? Or can the game create these soft locks just by force feedback data sent to the wheelbase (driver)?
whilst the higher steering ratio makes it harder to catch slides/spins, I find the lower steering ratio makes some cars far too sensitive on turn in and induces sliding/spinning.
yeah, these are the expected trade offs
Now it makes sense how I can save and throw around my Ferrari much more consistently than any other car. In terms of laptimes I can get it same with 14 and 15 ratios but in racing I always feel better off with 14 as it feels like I have much more of a car under my hands.
I always thought ratios in acc worked same way like rf2 or iR because that seems logical.
You have been dropping some amazing content latetly, keep it up its super intresting!
it works in effect the same way in terms of response, with the side effect of apparently too high tire lock
Hey Nils, good point! I'd put not that much attention to the steering lock in the setup as I should have it seems. I've always felt a little uncomfordable related to this and car behaviour on track. I'd found a list (quiet a while ago btw. from another Ytuber with sim content) how to setup your steering angle in the "wheel-setup" for "each" car, for example 480° for the Macca etc., but related to car behaviour on track to me this makes no sense now, except the fact to feel comfortable how much you have to rotate your wheel in general. So will it make sense to use a low angle setting in enduranse races because of less tire degradation?
degredation is only affected if you end up turning too much. as long as you listen to the car and the tires, there's no need to turn more than there is grip available - regardless of the ratio.
if you are (and most people are outside the top 1%) a little numb to what the tire is telling you, then there is at least a chance you will steer too much with low ratio. your front tire wear will tell the story.
Well true, numbness doesn't help in any way😁Overdriving the car doesn't help either. Thx for answering, keep up your good work, cheers@@SimracingPopometer
I have to ask it is normal in nurb turn 1 to steer like a full circle on the wheel? Happens the same in the lambo and mclaren with minimum steer ratio and I feel like it gets worse once I touch a car no matter if I'm playing with damage off. its kinda weird tbh
maximum you'll need in the tightest hairpins is 180° - more is unnecessary. unless your steering wheel is calibrated wrong and is not turning in sync with the virtual wheel in the car
Will having steer ratio at 11 cause a lot more tire wear in ACC compared to me having it at 13-14???? Thank you in advance for the answer
only if you steer too much. with lower ratio you will have the same angle on the tire with less steering input. so it becomes more sensitive and youll have to be more careful
If you change the rack ratio, the roadwheel steering angle will change as well. AC/ACC are correct in this. It is not always a given that the roadwheel angle is maintained, and usually when they are it is via artificial methods like steering rack extenders, bumpstops on the control arm or rack etc. The only real other way is with nonlinearity or changing the active rack gearing length.
You can also change it via suspension geometry, maintaining the rack rotation but changing the steering geometry; this is not what ACC is doing. Sometimes ackerman is adjustable on racecars, though.
I'm not sure if GT3 cars change internal rack ratio then limit the output angle with some kind of limiter, or if they swap in entirely shorter racks to get lower degrees of handwheel steering, or if they just let the roadwheels change angle if rack is changed.
the point is not about the how - any sim is simplifying things as long as they work as intended - it's about the max lock on the tire being way too much and outside what's (or should be) mechanically possible. this is more than my road car has.
btw in AC you don't have an adjustment at all
@@SimracingPopometer How many degrees is it in telemetry? I never found any cars with excessive angles, but it will differ on a model basis.
In AC there isn't any adjustment because AI breaks if you adjust steering ratio. It is still like that in heavily modded AC. They did something in ACC to get around it.
@@ArchOfficial telemetry in acc is steering wheel, not tire, so we don't know :)
@@SimracingPopometer Yes you do, look at toe.
ACC's telemetry out has no toe channel. i dont know what you mean. we dont get that info as an actual channel. we only have "tire contact heading" in shared memory.
I always thought ACC did it like rF2 but after seeing your demonstration, it’s clear that something else is happening.
This side effect has some sort of impact though in slow corners you can turn in more, setup the car in a more sensitive manner and save it from oversteer with minimal input and high speed. I bet most of the Pros have low steering inputs. Thing is, you dive into this and discover the issue. Can you imagine how many of these shortcuts are coded into ACC (and other sims) that limit the realism?
even on highest ratio the tire lock is enough to drive even the slowest corners at the highest possible speed. that's not an advantage of this setting. it's solely about response (the realistic part) and the excessive max tire lock (slightly unrealistic)
I'd argue that steering ratio is even at pro level 100% personal preference. You can look at it like mouse sensitivity in shooter games. Some people like to give fast responsive inputs, where you have to be really precise, as you otherwise under- or overdrive the car, while others like slower inputs which need more range, but in return give you more room for minor errors in the steering, which can perhaps make you more consistent.
If it wouldnt be for my teammates I would also drive with a somewhat higher steering ratio in ACC 😄
In ACC, low steering ratio means higher slip angles (on front tires) if you are not careful enought, isn`t it?
if you turn too much you have more slip, yes. but thats true for any steer ratio, just that it's easier to steer too much with low ratio
But does that really happen sense you can change the amount the steering wheel can rotate. In the controls settings you can adjust 720 or 900 or what ever you want. So is it still the same problem when that setting is changed?
yes (unless you set it up wrong on purpose or unknowingly which would simply counter the steer ratio and be kinda pointless)
Agree, however, people do try to set up the with what the real world cars have as steering ratio, which again like you said. It defeats the purpose. Ty for the education on steering ratio and steering lock.
Great video again Nils! Woul be interesting to know what a „realistic“ implementation of the steer ratio would look like. But i doubt that we will see any changes in Acc anymore
Off topic: The bs+ livery looks gorgeous on the Audi, any chance it is available to download somewhere?
realistic is the Rf2 way. our competitive liveries aren't distributed unfortunately.
From a programmer perspective I can see how this is a mistake that is easily done: You have a certain steer lock, and the ratio is just a modifier on that which then results in this effect. Code done, ship it :D
I'm just curious how the "correct" implementation would look then. Because if the max angle should be the same with different ratios but the ratio should still speed up the steering, doesn't that result in a non-linear steering input? Or will it just limit either the tyre or steering wheel lock at a certain point resulting in a different amount of potential max steering wheel input?
agree, just a simple way to get the desired effect with a bit of a unwanted side effect. Rf2 has the correct way. and potentially there are cars where you can change the end stop on tire level like ams2.
no nonlinearity from that but as you say something has to change, either max tire lock or max steering wheel lock like in rf2
The problem is that ACC has 5 years, lots of developers and lots of money. And this kind of things still exists. The same with FFB, not the best on the industry, to say the least !
on the plus side people don't get confused with having to change their steering wheel calibration depending on steer ratio. I guess it's an issue with various factors that led to that design choice.
The fix of the implementation should be to replicate the geometry of the steering bar (at the risk of stating the obvious). I'd say keep the linearity and just cap the maximum and minimum, because the geometric transformation between two rotations (steering wheel to rim) is likely linear. The fact that the number is literally a fixed *ratio* indicates linearity.
Maximum steering angle is limited by the suspension geometry and clearence in the wheel well, and is enforced by the end stops in the steering box. So the correct result would be that a higher sensitivity (lower gearing ratio in the box) results in fewer turns of the steering wheel to get the same steering angle. The maximum steering angle stays the same. Obviously the steering wheels range of rotation then has to decrease as steering ratio is lowered or we are breaking the laws of physics.
So for the best of both worlds you could set it to the lowest value and then adjust your steering wheel control panel and increase the total degrees possible. It would be possible to keep the ratio that is preferable to you and just have extra lock in case it is ever needed, like on the odd wet drift in the 992 cup car as an example.
yes you could always do that in any game by kinda lying to the game about your true steering degrees in the driver :D
I will use the steer ratio to solve a little bit of oversteer
i don't understand why you present this as an issue here, but not in AMS2. At 3:59 you show the max angle, yet not measure it to know exactly how much it is? Cuz it's actually around 360/12=30 degrees, which u claim to be unrealistic, yet you don't think that 28 degrees is unrealistic in AMS2?
Love that realism!
But if you think realistically, with that dramatic oversteer, are we killing our tyres quicker? Or is that not implemented in ACC?
yes totally, you are of course not driving this way normally. but it still shows that you can catch a car in out of comfort situations when you shouldnt be able to
I doubt real racing cars (GT3's) have the option to change steering rack or tie rod ancor points to change this ratio anyway? I tend to go for a lowish ratio on ACC as I guess most do, but not tofu delivery mode..
iracing lacks the setting entirely for example.
@@SimracingPopometer iR car setups are tremendously flawed for just about every single car, as is the case with most other consumer sims anyway. I wouldn't really use that as a data point for making any inferences.
The likely reason for lacking geometry adjustments is usually because the engine can't do it in realtime without breaking, anyway. Most sims can't.
I work with GT3 cars, and never adjusted the steering ratio, actually I don't even know if it's possible at all (at least not on the Lambo).
Why say it's unrealistic when you haven't checked with real teams if this is possible?
So technically speaking if you choose the higher steering angle so the slider all the way to the left does this not mean we can create more rotation with the same amount of steering input be aye the tyres a pointing more into the corner for same amount of steering input?! You know what I mean? Like we can gain a false amount of extra rotation if we can live with the sensitivity of the car. mrotation in the car like a hack? Basically a rotation hack.?! Or am I understanding this wrong?
you are getting it slightly wrong.
the tire will not produce more grip just because you steer more. I mean, you know that unless you always turn the wheel to the very maximum every corner? the limit of the tire is much earlier than the maximum steering. for an actual corner you never need more than 90° on the steering wheel, or 180° in very tight corners, translating to something like 5-10° on the tire. so this excessive angles on the tire don't help us in terms of grip or rotation. the speed of steering is the important and realistic part in terms of function, but the way its implemented in ACC it produces very large angles on the tire when going to maximum steering, which has a side effect of being able to drift the cars at angles you shouldnt be able to. but there's no "cheat" available through it
Thankyou for the reply and explanation. So the real difference is at the maximum steering point where the natural stop should be.
I guess you either need to fix maximum steering wheel lock or maximum wheel lock. I can see why kunos fixed steering wheel lock and adjust wheel angle, otherwise you lose steering wheel angle range (so your 720° becomes 660° or whatever if you reduce steering ratio).
It must be a conscious decision on how to approach these parameters. I don't think think it's necessarily wrong, unless as you suggest we are able to reach unrealistic steer angles. However, i have definitely seen evidence of tyre rubbing at full lock in real life...
But as you say it's only an issue at extreme wheel angles that I'm guessing you would never actually use in proper racing anyway
yes, agree fully really.
my wheel scrubbing the chassis is probably a bad example cause it happens at low angles already, so its more a 3D model issue or whatever freedom the tire has there...
but im fairly certain the maximum tire angle we are getting is just too much, given you can keep doing full lock U-turns with a GT3 on a narrow race track :D
There's some major flaws with ACCs steering characteristics and they have gotten worse with 1.9.
The fact you can change the steering ratio along with the steering lock (460 to 800) and Caster creates a huge advantage for those who understand how to take advantage of it!
It's similar to the whole minimum mechanical grip settings options that allows some cars to get more grip at corner exit. This allows players to not only have an unrealistic amount of tire rotation but it also creates an unrealistic amount of rotation!
This is why so many people move the Caster Slider all the way to the max and the steering ratio to the minimum. This not only gives you more tire rotation with less steering wheel movement, but it also gives you more camber taking it way past -4 on the front!
This helps get rid of that weird steering feeling like the car is riding on the edge of its tire(losing all grip) when you turn the steering wheel!
Moving the Caster way to the right helps make cars steering feel similar..
Overall there's several issues that make ACC feel very unrealistic which is exactly why people use those very settings.
The ability to use 0 or 1 TC in cars like the Audi and McLaren make them significantly faster from apex to corner exit..
Yesterday I compared the replay of the LFM races I did! I decided to try LFMs new BOP and used the BMW and Bentley at Silverstone instead of the McLaren!! In the Bentley (which is -40kg) my apex speeds were identical to the 1st and 2nd place drivers but my corner exit speeds were a few MPH slower at the identical point in corner exit even though we all got on the throttle at the same exact point!!!
Watching the replay of the guy using the Audi he was switching between 1 and 0 on the TV setting allowing him to accelerate faster thus be a few tenths faster per lap!
I've never messed with the whole changing TC to 0 at corner exit.. however I did notice I could change the TC to 0 in the BMW for entire sectors and not have to worry about tire spin!!
Overall there many many fundamental issues that make the game unrealistic. This is exactly why so many people use the McLaren Evo...
I spent last night practicing in the BMW at Barcelona and no matter what I did I was stuck in the high 1:44's. Like 1:44.7.
Now I don't expect to be as fast in the BMW as I am in the McLaren due to knowing the McLaren better. But at the same time I felt like I had more grip in the BMW yet when I hopped back into the McLaren I was instantly faster down in the low 1:44s and in all reality I can probably get into the 1:43's with some more adjustments to the car set up!!
Idk why ACC is so unrealistic when it comes to braking points and corner exits in certain vehicles but that's just the way it is and it got worse with the 1.9 update...
The funny thing is I've been saying the 1.9 update has been the worst by far since it first came out while other people defended it (you for example)!
Now that people have more time with 1.9 they are realizing how broken it truly is!
I shouldn't have to move my Caster Slider way to the right to get rid of that weird steering loss of grip you get with the front tires and under no circumstances should anyone be able to use 0 TC in any vehicle. Ask any real life GT3 driver who does sim racing and they will tell you the cars are almost impossible to drive with 0 TC.
James mentioned this when he drove at Spa IRL. In his video he said "At the least they were using TC2" on certain parts of the track but NEVER 0
Unfortunately no game/sim will ever be perfect due to having to be compatible with a dozen different manufacturers equipment (wheel bases, wheels and pedals). However I do believe ACC could be much better with a few minor adjustments. 1 being how quickly the rear tires degrade using traditional mechanical grip and damping settings!
With out using Exploit damping and mechanical grip settings the rear tires are destroyed after 25 min. Even in the LFM sprint races you see people's lap times falling off a cliff twds the end of the race while others don't. This is the difference between using the exploit settings vs the non exploit settings.
For example I did a practice race yesterday vs the AI in the McLaren starting 24 of 24 cars at 100% AI at Barcelona.. Instead of my lap times falling off at the end of the race, they were getting faster.. Had I used more traditional damping and a Mechanical grip settings my tires would have been shot and my laptimes getting slower!
Instead of making it so people must use exploit settings ACC can simply fix the tire degradation issue. I'm pretty sure a GT3 car doesn't destroy it's tires in 7 or 8 laps! Especially since they often do endurance races where they go a full 60 90 min stint before coming into the Pit
ill try to take the time later to respond, but you're certainly exaggerating some stuff in there frankly
Professor Nils researching again..😂
So guys, I've tried to watch the video 2 or 3 times and Im a bit confused. Quick conclusion is: in ACC this setting is doing the opposite thing . The more degrees we set the car, than less tire rotation ( left to right ) we have, and vice versa. Correct me if Im wrong. Please )
steer ratio is not a degree setting. it's just a big and a small gear connecting steering and tire. change the ratio (the amount of teeth on a gear) between these two and the amount of movement on one end will affect the amount of movement on the other end. acc doesn't do it the opposite way. it's just doing it a different way to get to the same result + side effect
A ratio should by rights include two numbers, eg 2 to 1. In this case we are changing between 20 to 1 and 14 to 1. Obviously 1 is a bigger fraction of 14 than 20, so you can imagine that if the amount of wheel movement was fixed, all that would happen is you would require less turns to get there, what ACC has done is NOT fixed the rotation amount, but also allowed that to increase by the same ratio. The effect is similar to what you'd expect, a more responsive steering, but the UNdesired effect is that it changes the maximum steering angle. It's just a simple math error in the code, where the ratio is being applied not only to the steering angle, but also to the maximum deflection of the wheels at the same time.
Odd game design decision! With enough tire angle, anything can become a drift car. Big wheel arches I would assume are bad for aero drag and lift. One of THE differences between road and race cars is the lack of lock. If you can get round the tightest hairpin on the calendar, why have more lock available?
A-ha! That's why almost all esport setups have lowest steering ratio
*esports drivers. because they can handle high sensitivity. less skilled drivers with worse hardware likely can not
First thing I do in my Nissan is drop ratio to 12-13.
great video
Why are people commenting this will never be addressed? Is ACC EOL now? I thought there was more dlc coming, so don't see why we couldn't get updates on core game
Pretty sure it's EOL while AC2 is in pre-release production
Quite amusing how detached from reality simracing sometimes is.
Nobody seems to know how it is done in a real car. Hard to google simple facts like this, too.
ChatGPT even claims that some GT3 cars have real-time adjustable steering lock ;-)
Could someone just ask Aris? (But what if he doesn't know either)
and then us as the general public are very detached from how game development works. its highly unlikely its about them not knowing what they do, but having made a simplified design choice for a reason (you can argue if its a good one of course :D). the general purpose of having faster steering works, just that we have a side effect with excessive max lock
Steering Angle vs wheel angle*
Interesting...
Das hat mir grade 0.5 sek auf misano gebracht 😳 krass
warum? wie? :D
@@SimracingPopometer ich hab viel mehr movement im Auto und komme besser um die Ecken ich weiß verrückt aber eben angeschaut und aufm lfm server getestet 😂
@@hochleistungsspielzeug verrückt ist's nicht. die Lehre daraus ist aber eigentlich, dass du auch mit höherer Ratio einfach nur schneller lenken müsstest ;)
mit niedriger Ratio geht dir halt etwas Präzision flöten. und eventuell lenkst du auch zu viel hier und da und hast mehr Verschleiß
@@SimracingPopometer was noch interessant wäre als Video was muss ich machen um Tc off zu fahren 😅 und so das das Auto beherrschbar bleibt 🤔😅
on my list :)
Interesting
"Real Data"
Maybe question should be: is there something real in ACC? 😅🙄
black and white questions don't get you anywhere in simracing
@@SimracingPopometer i agree, but there are things pretty weird in ACC, suspensions not working as real suspensions, untouchable curbs, handling so unnatural
@pierluigivinci6777 I'd say handling is pretty good unless you go for exploit setups.
the tires especially with TC off now are talkative and good to attack while putting the car in the state you want without being too lenient
@@SimracingPopometer i honestly don't drive it since some months. But shouldn't be nearly impossible to push hard a modern GT3 with TC on 0?
@@pierluigivinci6777 Why (and why modern specifically?)? A hard to drive car is a car hard to sell. GT3s are designed for people who are NOT racing drivers. For rich people to be able to enjoy an expensive hobby. A car you often crash is even more expensive. Even if the drivers are rich, they still want to be sensible. The cars are much more forgiving than you think. How many self induced spins do you see watching GT3 races? Exactly.
Das ganze SPIEL ! ist doch verpatcht... hab mit 1.8 aufgehört zu spielen. Um so mehr ich bei dir sehe ( TC0 usw....) was alles nicht stimmt in den Videos um so mehr bin ich froh das ich von ACC weg bin. Trotzdem Danke Nils :D solltest das Video vielleicht mal den Devs schicken/zeigen.... werden dann eh sagen "ist nur optisch" KEKW
Naja, mit so schwarz weiß Aussagen bin ich ja eher vorsichtig ;)
Manche Dinge passen, manche nicht, manche sind komplizierter. TC 0 gibt es auch in echt. vielleicht nur nicht ganz so notwendig - aber das muss nicht an der Simulation, sondern kann auch am level der simracer liegen
Für mich ist acc seit 1.9 tot. Fühlt sich einfach falsch an. Schwammig, nicht mehr knackig wie noch vor 1.8. ich habs vor 1.8 geliebt und 1.8 noch mitgemacht, aber seit 1.9 macht es gar keinen Spaß mehr. Bin grad dabei rfactor2 wieder eine Chance gegeben und fahre noch gtp in iracing. Auch wenn das auch nicht das gelbe vom ei ist fühl ich mich deutlich wohler im Auto, mehr connected.
@@MM-mx8srist schon komisch, weil ich habe den unterschied nie als so groß zwischen den patches empfunden. ich will hier mitnichten sagen, dass in acc grundsätzlich alles falsch ist. es geht hier eigentlich nur um einen kleinen teil der anders umgesetzt ist als in anderen spielen und der in extremsituationen zu viel lenkeinschlag erlaubt - für's allgemeine fahren ist das völlig irrelevant
@@SimracingPopometerja ich weiß dass es gar nicht viel ist, aber nachdem ich 2,5 Jahre ausschließlich acc gefahren bin hat es mit 1.9 tatsächlich einfach keinen Spaß mehr gemacht, keine Ahnung warum genau. Dazu kommt dass extreme Setups immer noch das ding sind, was heißt dass mit der Physik etwas nicht stimmt. Ich weiß das ist irgendwie in jeder sim ein Problem. Grundsätzlich fühle ich mich nach mehr als 2 Jahren ohne iracing da jetzt deutlich wohler als in acc. Aktuell probiere ich rf2 nochmal etwas aus. Acc mache ich immer mal wieder an, aber es kommt immer sofort das Gefühl: nein, ich habe kein Gefühl fürs Auto, bin nicht wirklich verbunden. Das ist in iracing für mich momentan tatsächlich besser, und ich bin dadurch auch schneller in relation zu den ganz schnellen.
So what's the idea of this? Is the lowest always the best?
no, as it makes the car very sensitive, it requires the driver to be very precise, which makes it more difficult. on a sluggish car the low ratio can help to make it more responsive, on a already responsive car a higher ratio can help tame it. the video is more about the fact that the way the implementation works it results in unrealistically high maximum angles on the tire (they are completely useless for correct driving though).
@@SimracingPopometer thanks for explaining
There are still so many problems with racing games, they would do better as ....to work together to get the bugs out of the software and hardware, but by protecting their own ecosystem and fighting legal battles, it will take a long time for better solutions
these issues are very individual in each game. its clearly just a much simplified implementation here with a side effect, that doesn't come into play during normal driving scenarios.