Random Damage Spread - TF2's Forgotten Mechanic
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- do you wish TF2 had more RNG-based mechanics that decided whether or not you'd kill someone? if so, you should've been playing TF2 before 2015
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0:00 introduction
1:11 how RDS works
4:02 specific weapons
10:21 conclusion
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songs used:
Jredd - Startropics Cave (Jredd Funk Mix)
zinger - Hibernation Hacker
potato-tan - Second Strike [VRC6]
+TEK - Tengu Party
+TEK - Ghost Fight!! Title&Menu Theme
Jredd - Neon Alley - Ігри
![The Art of Phlog Canceling [TF2 Exploit]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fvl1_hfMI_s/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Art of Phlog Canceling [TF2 Exploit]](/img/tr.png)
![Why Can't Certain Weapons Random Crit? [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bMSGMTaxCvc/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Evolution of Demoknight [TF2]](/img/n.gif)
"All melees have no damage falloff or rampup"
As an Ullapool Caber user, I'd like to disagree
Well tecnically the explosion is a seperate object from the caber meele hit, as if you caber a player at 55hp you get exploded caber kill icon, even if your caber explodes (wich normally shows as intact caber in killfeed) okay nevermind the explosion is still caber meele, it just created a explosion at the edge of your hitbox or whereever it happens, idk dont mind me being dumb and bored
@@sauli01 *inhales*
B O R I N G S H U T U P N E R D
@@sauli01 "Well tecnically the explosion is a seperate object from the caber meele hit, as if you caber a player at 55hp you get exploded caber kill icon, even if your caber explodes (wich normally shows as intact caber in killfeed) okay nevermind the explosion is still caber meele, it just created a explosion at the edge of your hitbox or whereever it happens, idk dont mind me being dumb and bored" 🤓
as a wrap assassin, i know that the bauble has RDS
U need to be under the sniper to one shot him
Honestly now that RDS is gone they could revert the loch-n-load to a 2 pill mag size but give it back the 20% increased damage against everything.
leaving a light class on 5 hp is effectively a oneshot. I'd say make it +10 or +15 instead of +20
@@Nicoder6884 But it isn't.
If a light class is full HP you can't oneshot them. But if they took some chip damage you'll be able to finish them off.
@@Nicoder6884 a demo cant exactly quickly do 5 damage
@@boogit9979 Fall damage
@@Nicoder6884 well being at 15 or 10 wouldnt help much more.
as a bonus
between 2007 to mid 2011 rds wasnt that much of a problem because there was no valve server or quickplay meaning (unless the server was unconfigured) it would be most likely be turned off
it became a bigger problem with the uber update and the quickplay option where valve tried to standardize community servers with their rules
The cvar to disable damage spread did not exist at launch and wasn’t added until early 2009
@@cr128 you still could use sourcemod tho
@@cr128 ever heard of sourcemod?
t
Why are you lying?
"Oh and fall damage also has a damage variance, I bet you didn't even notice it until now"
Actually, I've always wondered why fall damage was so inconsistent, so many times I died/survived to falls that I shouldn't have
i think it is not on fall damage anymore
I remember watching a youtube video in 2016 saying that the old Loch and Load could one hit kill scouts when the 20% damage bonus affected players, but i could not understand how since 100 + 20% = 120. It took me years finding out about why.
That makes 2 of us.
@3:20 the scout being named “Still alive” is quite the slap in the face
Maybe a reference to Portal?
@@white2765 yes definitely, all the valve bot usernames are references to Half Life, Portal, or TF2
@@GameyRaccoon Really?
@@white2765 yes
Believe it or not, random damage spread used to be even worse. Up until 2009, it was 25%, which means that a fully charged bodyshot from Sniper Rifle had a chance of one-shotting Pyros and Demomen (and an equal chance of not one-shotting light classes).
fucked up
glad this is getting coverage, i remember random damage spread confusing me when i started to play the game a long long time ago.
thankfully this isn't a thing anymore, as this explanation really shows the jank this mechanic offers. it does confuse me still why it was in the game for so long in the first place
but either-way, clean and informative! banger upload as usual!
yeah its confusing but its not exactly surprising as valve has been notorious with very strange or just bad balance with tf2
not just tf2 but also csgo, csgo once had the r8 revolver do the same damage as a one shot sniper lol
@@ripley7910 i wouldnt really fault it on bad balance and more on the fact the had a very different view of the game up to 2016 but we already know how that ended
@@chocox6491 It never should have been in the game in the first place.
@@chocox6491 It IS bad balance
what confuses me even more is why random crits are still in the game, random damage spread was removed for basically the same exact reason so what gives??
I didn't know about any of this.
Glad it's disabled. I hate randomized damage rolls. That would explain why fall damage never made sense to me.
Fall damage would be _more_ consistent because by 1600 HU, the RDS would always have maximum falloff.
How the hell did I never hear about this? I was PLAYING tf2 back when this was still enabled, and this is the first time I've ever heard it, period.
Because there was no matchmaking, and servers usually patched it out with sourcemod.
I remember back in YE OLDEN DAYS when I started playing (2013). Headshotting Soldiers and then not killing them with the following bodyshot was pretty annoying.
I wish I could say "same" but I couldn't hit headshots back then.
I still can't.
@@caramelldansen2204 Just replace "Headshot" with "Fully Charged Bodyshot" and you're good lmao
So it was the RDS that made the Loch n Load so infamous, i mean 120 damage is still enough for a scout to die to anything else, but it only had 2 granades, i feel like it would be acceptable these days
Many weapons were balanced with random chances in mind, i'm glad valve had the decency to remove such a pointless and annoying stat, at least you can argue that random crits make melees more viable, but RDS affected positevly or negatevly the player as well as the enemies with random chances
I heard someone mention the other day that pipes always do 100 damage on impact. I could’ve sworn when I used to play, it was never consistent, but I just accepted what he said as true. Thanks for the video
Yeah, so both the mechanics of it depending on where you hit someone with explosive weapons and the random damage spread are responsible for that.
I've gotten used to saying "I regret avoiding tf2 for so long" but in all actuality, coming into it in 2021 let me miss alot of this type of stuff that would've made me hate the game
Too bad you have to live through the bot invasion
@@Critical_Hit yeahhh but the good news is that's only on matchmaking. community servers are still pretty safe from that, but at the same time it's mostly more experienced players on community servers so the new player experience isn't very good... still better than playing with bots 24/7 though
Yea I hear all this bs about how early 2010’s tf2 was so great, but they fail to mention valves horrible balance choices. Another great example is p2w item sets. Who thought that would be a good idea
@@colatf2 valve apparently ;)
@@filthycasul1804 apparently
Yeah I remember never being sure if I had to hit a light class with melee twice or thrice. Strangely though, I wasn't as annoyed with it as I would think, I think I just accepted it, although I was just a little kid then.
I think random damage spread has a place in some games, like I don't think too many people hate it in Doom 2 where most attacks have some amount of base damage and can deal damage between that and up to eight times that (!!!), but that's in single player and it affects mainly damage to the player. Even the doom gods seem to accept that sometimes this annoying revenant rocket does 10 damage and sometimes it does 80, cause you take damage so often and there are so many medkits typically. It's a mess in multiplayer and I think tf2 is a lesson for the future.
@@krowta2062 Maybe? I said the doom gods seem to accept it, cause in a playthrough video or something, you don't constantly hear people complaining that wow I lost so much health, stupid damage spread. I think it just averages out over time. I guess they do complain but not with the vigor tf2 players do.
I think doom in particular would lose some of its tension and variety if enemy damage was consistent. I actually think the devs nailed it, mostly, cause player weapons actually do fairly consistent damage. Makes you cautious of the enemy but mostly doesn't make your own firepower a dice roll. Unless your enemy is the mancubus or cacodemon, then it can be a difference of one rocket or ssg shot and that's annoying.
@@krowta2062 Yeah cool, I guess I just prefer it when the focus is more onto avoiding getting hit by the stronger projectiles in the first place cause they can do such a wild range of damage, but I also think a lot of people don't and would prefer to be able to count the damage they take.
I honestly still hate the damage spread even in games like doom. I literally don't play doom or doom mods specifically because of damage spread, but that's just me personally :P
RDS applying on fall damage means the Pyro jetpack and Soldier Mantreads always deal random damage no matter the server configuration.
good point
Imagine if killing someone in one hit was up to random chance to this day in official valve servers haha..
Wait...
Funny that its still demo with this ability (being able to kill every class with a crit pipe for 300)
the variance on fall damage is actually super noticeable on certain classes that take fall damage a lot - especially if you're doing soldier/demo rollouts, the same path can often leave you on a surprisingly different amount of health once you're done! I'd always chalked it up to just janky physics but hearing that it's actually a legitimate damage spread is absurdly funny
I used to play with random damage spread enable for so long that I still find it strange to see consistent damage when playing nowadays
4:41
The OG Equalizer really did Goddamn everything
Amazing presentation! A+
Fantastic video, and awesome editing for those demos
I've played this game since 2013/14. I wasn't good enough at the game to notice it, but the discourse around the Loch and Load was absolutely insane
hmmm, so if everyone is now in agreement about RDS being bad, imagine how we will all feel 4 years from now if random crits are disabled! I'm a little on the fence about RBS, though. it makes shotguns feel less like shotguns
Nah but crits are awesome in a sense. You just obliterate some guy randomly. He just gets absolutely murdered.
I initially thought RBS wasn't a big deal and it was an annoying tryhard thing to complain about or change, then I shot a couple walls with it on and off... yeah nah RBS is absurd in this game and the stock shotgun feels amazing with it off. I was put off because it sounded like people were complaining about any randomness in bullet deviation at all, which is a kind of player I hate in so many games- not everything is CSGO, guns don't behave like perfect competitive video game constructs- but they were more complaining about the huge variance in actual effective damage, which is infinitely more valid.
It'd be nice if RBS got removed. The only thing I would change about crits is removing crit ramp up, as that's not truly random at all.
Your videos are just getting better and better! :)
This video makes this concept amazingly easy to understand! Good on ya m8!!!
i swear everytime i see a tf2 video talking about a game mechanic or something similar its always so high quality with either 100k views or less
Thank you for making a video on this!
I played for about 2 years before it was officially disabled, and it definitely felt terrible to low roll damage especially when fighting snipers. Fighting the Loch n Load was also a nightmare to deal with.
Personally i think that random bullet spread has detured a lot of new players to play scout especialy when yo are really close and seem to not kill anything.
This was a very informative video. I remember how broken the loch-n-load was but I had no idea random damage spread was even a thing!!! keep up the good work.
Really well made video, keep it up!
This is a great video. The fall damage ragdoll was hilarious
I played during this era, and to this day im still confused by consistent damage numbers to this day.
God, I remember when it was still enabled in servers. Looking back, I’m am astounded as to how people used to play demoman with that mechanic…
Hybrid Knight was the shit back then, that's how we did it.
No sword switch penalty, Chargin' Targe with higher resistances and afterburn immunity and multiple good swords to choose from.
You may not be the overall best at SFM but damn your skits are funny when used at the right times
Great editing!
pretty good video! Well done!
It's funny how everyone complained about the loch n load being overpowered after smissmass 2014 even though they removed the one thing that was overpowered in that same update.
i remember this
it wasn't good and while "you had to be there it was such a (funny) shitshow " is true, i remember i was glad when damage numbers, especially melees felt more standardized
it really does make you think "damn how did we live like this" tho
I kinda remember this mechanic when I start playing, but wow, just amazing.
Nice work.
I dunno how I haven't come across this video sooner but thanks for proving I wasn't old & crazy from playing tf2 during 2011-2014.
So rds is why I couldn't figure out what the minimum damage from falling was. That has killed me a lot when messing around before the round start because I would try to maximize my sped with escape plan. Honestly now that I know it's exist it explains why I have been so baffled sometimes on how fall damage kills me.
I never even knew this existed, good video
This is really interesting, I sort of forgot that RDS existed because. I've been playing that long but wasn't really aware of the finer details. Now it explains why the Machina was one of the most loathed weapons for a long time. "Bodyshot Noob" was a more common insult back in the day, and I never knew that RDS was such a cause of it.
This is a really high quality video
I don't really remember RDS myself but I'm glad it's gone regardless. Shame Valve never wised up about crits as well.
And seeing that TF2 is no longer getting major updates, I doubt random crits will ever be removed.
Nah crits were fine when I started playing in 09 and they're fine now in 2021
@@drumboarder1 Yeah I sure do love rounding the corner and instantly get blown up by a crit rocket that came from across the map. I sure do love that, it's the best. A totally earned kill by the other player.
@@dozer1431 y u hef be mad? Is only game. Somewhere between 1500-3000 hours and nearly joining a comp team at one point, I've never been bothered by them
@@drumboarder1 Good for you, that doesn't make them less terrible for the game.
Now I just miss the Loch-n-load. It could've stayed the same but without the random damage spread, 120 damage against everything with 2 greandes. Now it not only sucks, it doesn't even make sense. Projectile has a different speed and thus requiring different muscle memory but that isn't even worth it when stock and the iron bomber does the same freakin damage. Yes it deals 120 damage against buildings but it's still bad.
Agreed. The weapons that were nerfed due to trying to balance against random damage spread should be reverted. (Equalizer, pls) Of course, this depends on Valve waking up for once.
As a demoman main, this feature hurts my soul everytime I see it, seeing LESS my glorious 100 damage on a perfect airshot gives me an incomprehensible level of anger
Who are you and where are all of your subs? This video is super well done
The thing is still in the game
I’m glad that this video exists. No one ever talks about it.
This video is bangin
6:36 Well that one was disappointing. Sniper being able to get a guaranteed one-shot on the most important class from across the map without even needing a headshot is pretty OP.
and here I am thinking there is some sort of specific place to jump down and land onto when playing in DeGroot Keep
Crazy that this still was a thing when I first started playing in 2014, yet I never knew it existed.
Can we just take a moment for this guys editing?
Good video, I am a new player so I had no idea that this existed
I desperately long for the Loch n load pre nerf.
I've been playing TF2 since 2012 and I legit did not know about this. Good to know, haha
I still don't understand why they don't revert the loch n' load stats after this mechanic being removed
nice vid
it took me a way too long to figure out that A: this isn't a normal mechanic for first person shooters, and counting damage is actually useful in most games, and B: they turned it off at some point
6:45 actually it’s a little above 50% because there is the chance that there is no change to the damage
hey the beginning is star tropic ost, nice taste
Holy shit this takes me back to when I used to play demoman with Lock n load, tideturner, and eyelander back when tideturner could full crit. Legitimately the closest thing tf2 has had to a "hero" class
Lock'n Load should be buffed again. It was supposed to be the Demo's Direct Hit. Give it that Damage bonus. Now that RDS doesn't screw with it's damage peak, they can set it to deal 120 damage, and it won't insta kill full health light classes. Bring it back to 2 shot mag size to compensate.
i hate how they removed the rds but they forgot about revert the damage of equalizer and other weapons
1:40oh so that's the 15%for. I never knew why is it there and no one talked about it
just shows how longs its been since i played tf2 ... i thought this was still in the game :x
I play since 2014 and I didn't even know RDS was a thing. I thought it was the distance fall off changing the damage.
OMG
i'm realising only now why i was hot fire with the huntsman back in the days, and now i can't feel as good ahah
i forgot, it used to one shot light classes
The wrap assassin's ball still does a random amount of damage. Do you think this could be caused by rds dispite it being disabled?
Edit: I figured out the cause. the balls damage is split in two parts, damage from hitting and splash damage. What looked like random damage was just the splash damage's radius. Depending on where you hit the person, you'll do more or less damage.
yeah, the same thing happens with the Ullapool, since its a combination of melee damage and an explosion with splash radius.
This probably explains why i take 10 or 30 dmg when i fall from 2fort battlements
I can't believe tf2 came out 2 days before I was born
If given the choice of keeping random crits or removing them and enabling damage spread, I'd keep random crits, no questions asked. Random crits only affect some shots, while damage spread affected every single shot you took.
So, this is why I used to dominate with the Huntsman back in the day, and now it feels like a chore to use. I knew something significant had changed. Damn.
My favorite
One thing about random crits to consider is that they're funny. A big glowing explosion that kills three people from across the map at least gets a fun reaction. RDS just means that sometimes you don't win a fight, or you randomly just kill someone, and unless you know what's going on, you won't even by certain why. There's nothing flashy or funny about it. At the very least, crits have that.
10:30 I KNEW IT!
I didn't even realise damage spread was removed, for some reason I always assumed it still applied to weapons like the flamethrower or shotgun
@@RandomPerson13 Nah it's one of my least played classes
"random damage spread is not in use today"
me a caber user: 'well, yes but actually no'
Tight
I wonder if people talk about random crits and bullet spread because it's now more noticeable without the damage spread.
"some things are best left forgotten"
Huh I hadn't noticed it was gone
lister if you would not mind i would like to ask something.
how do you find gameplay footage from several years ago that demonstrates what you want to demosntrate?
looking up the weapon on youtube, scrolling all the way to the bottom, and meticulous skimming thru each one until i find what i need
I think almost everyone's noticed that fall damage was oddly inconsistent, but just kinda ignored it and assumed it was an engine problem and not an intended feature lol
Watching this vid just slap me every melee pvp I had in 2fort sewer and now I kinda understand everything now I guess
*Gets random CRIT*
*dead medic main talking*
Nice flanking
playing demoman had to be inFURIATING trying to count cards on clean pipe hits when this was a thing. What I didn't realize was that I knew about the damage variance on hitbox, but NOT RDS! which means the pills were running 2 layers of damage variability every shot you hit. I'm glad those days are over.
1:05 god i love this game
I don't know why but the random at 1:26 made me wheeze
9:34 "I didn't knooooooow... there wasn't enough data!"
-Valve employees
4:40 I miss this. I crutched on it so hard on community 2Fort servers and RDS had me win a lot of encounters I probably had no business winning.
no idea who you are but pog
7:10 wait.. i have seen that 'Humans Are Weak' guy while playing mvm many times.. WHAT ARE THE ODDS THEY ARE IN THIS VIDEO WHAT THE HELL
i actually played vs bots to record footage of RDS since no server (that i know of) today has it, 'humans are weak' is one of the default bot names :)
6:20 "Sniper Is a Pick Class"
A sniper can wipe out a whole server on his own. That doesn't sound like a pick class :p
Well he was INTENDED to be a pick class
Sniper picks on everyone.
now I know how I used to kill demos with machina body shots
10:34 OH thats why i got 45 damage after jumping from the roof of 2fort
well; atleast we know why the equalizer today cries itself to sleep while the escape plan goes on doing it's thing.
Random Damage Spread still takes effect sometimes
I saw my sniper bodyshot deal 157 damage the other day
That was probably a player with a damage vulnerability effect. Such as a Powerjack Pyro.