The industry was cancelling any books that went below 100k sales in the 90's but the industry was about to go bankrupt. These days they are lucky to sell 20k copies on anything below the top 10 books, but the industry is doing great. We must be in opposite land.
Chapters: 00:00:00 - Comic Book Updates 00:04:49 - Hot San Diego Memory 00:10:02 - The Self-Loathing Within The Comics Industry 00:15:07 - Dealing With Uncertainty At Marvel 00:20:07 - "The Lunatics Have Taken Over The Asylum" 00:24:59 - Marvel's Reputation Fix 00:29:50 - Surviving The Comic Book Crash 00:34:55 - The Importance Of Solid Art And Consistency 00:40:04 - The Policy On Internal Freelancing 00:44:50 - The Energy Of The Room 00:49:58 - New Comics From Dark Horse 00:54:47 - The Impact Of Civil Liberties And Civil Rights 00:59:54 - The Rise Of Extremism In Media 01:05:05 - The Struggles Of The Golden Goose 01:09:51 - Seeking Something New In Comics 01:14:41 - The Cycle Of Repetition In Genre Fiction 01:19:56 - Marvel's Characters And Their Masks 01:25:06 - The Dual Personality Of Clark Kent And Peter Parker 01:30:09 - Relatability Of Comic Book Characters 01:34:57 - The Joy Of Drawing And Writing 01:39:51 - Memories From Marvel 01:44:33 - Producing At Amazon 01:49:23 - Saving The Business With Marvel Knights 01:54:39 - Coming Soon
Joe agrees with the UA-camrs about Hollywood going to crap but doesn't agree with them about comics going to crap, he's biased because he has skin in the game and is friends with the people who are doing it. The characters are a shadow of their former selves and the fight scenes are 1 panel long now if they even have any. You have non-comicbook fans writing the books just to try and transition into a job in Hollywood and they don't care how many characters they have to trash to do it.
Not every comic book fan should write or draw comics. Sometimes that just leads to more of the same stagnation that is in the books now. You get everyone that wants to retell their favorite story line in the book revisiting times that passed. It’s ok. Hit and miss is the order of the day lately. That can agree on. I feel if they find a good writer and they are working with a good artist they should let it keep rolling. Hopefully both will stay on the book.
When Joe says the industry is fine, that’s him trying to avoid responsibility for the state it’s in, as he’s one of the principal architects of the state it’s in. Good for him, though, that he was able to take a golden parachute out, while the industry has to pay for his mistakes.
Even though he might have made mistakes I think Marvel had every reason to be successful in the 2010s with the explosion of the MCU which was a lot more influential to pop culture than X-Men or Spider-Man. It's not his fault they blew it and turned comics into something niche that doesn't even appeal to the niche. At least Quesada had a bunch of comics that anyone could read and the stuff for comic book fans actually appealed to them for the most part
Love that Joe gave Kevin Smith his flowers during the end perhaps Mark can get Kevin on the future to both talk about their writing process and the marvel culture at the time and the film business? 😮
Great interview. Would've loved it you'd touched on Ash - I'm surprised Joe has never tried to integrate either Ash himself or any of his villains into Marvel continuity - the Actor I always felt would make a fantastic Daredevil rogue.
This was really interesting to watch as an avid floppies buyer. I'm 23 and I've loved comics since I was 16, but I didn't start getting single issues regularly until I was 19 instead of just picking up trades of classics. What got me into the medium proper were a couple exciting new titles: Simon Spurrier's Hellblazer and Al Ewing's We Only Find Them When They're Dead. These were books that were so exciting and interesting that I simply couldn't wait until the trade came out, and every few months I find something new that grips me like that. But the process of sorting through the shlock can be daunting. Over the last couple years there have probably been a hundred vampire comics, and many of them are really good, but the industry is over saturated. Maybe that's reflective of something in the shared cultural consciousness, maybe it is people doing knock offs of more popular books, probably a mix of both, but it creates a glut. We are spoiled for choice with very limited avenues to discern what is actually quality outside of just trying books out
47:53 You know what, fair play to Tom. In that moment he was right. Spidey and Wolverine should never have been Avengers. I get it from a sales POV, but narratively speaking and from how the characters have been historically written it just doesn't work for most of the fans. And more importantly the fans can see why it's being done and although we all know it's a business it still leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
The Christopher priest story about him losing the gig for that 1998 hulk series to a editor who's name was Glenn Greenberg and the title was rampaging hulk with art by Rick Leonardi
1:04. Joe lost all that weight and gained it all back and then some!!! 😮 Man is a millionaire with no stressful deadlines! Needs to take care of his health!!!!
@Mark You really dropped the ball not asking for Joe to explain retailers' reports of sales being significantly down when he claimed they weren't. Your last interview was a Retailers' Roundtable, so you had a real opportunity to dive into that here a little bit. What happened?
I understand that Mark didn’t want to get into a fight with him…but “Crazy Bob” does have a UA-cam channel or two. I get that. But Joe, you hired Crazy Bob and his friends to destroy your IP’s.
I dont have a trust fund, nor any kind of residuals to live off of, so I have no idea what Quesada means "it's just business..." -does that mean I have to be a pseudo-activist and ruin IP and keep my job while hating on fans and rely on variant covers and alienating hype, wtf now? Why not just admit Marvel Comics is dead?
"what can you say to me as a shareholder" -today's response is "oh well, im sorry that you feel that way" -wtf... quesada sounds clueless, he may as well be talking about living in another dimension... there is no more value in fans any more, they have offshore hedge funds and social media companies to tell us everything is okay...
Honestly, Joe Quessadilla has a LOT to answer for after OMD. To me, OMD was a big part of Peter Parker's down fall from that point onward. It was as if writers after OMD were completely content in making Spidey's life as miserable as possible. Dude lost his wife MJ and a good job as a teacher, put him in a miserable relationship with Mockingbird, brought back MJ just to get him cucked by some rando. It just became status quo to shit on Peter Parker's life from OMD onward, and it ruined any real growth for his character. At the very elast, Joe could tell us why he made OMD to begin with.
@@gkirkpatrick1004 his merch just sits on the shelf Greg. His comic's have never sold. He is more spider man cause of the colour of his skin and that's not as good as Peter's with great power comes great responsibility
Way back in the long ago, I won an auction and got to have a 2-hour lunch with Joe Quesada. (I've got a video about this on my channel, but here's the TL;DR.) The one thing I did not like about his reign at Marvel was the style change he directed for the covers. Every cover looked like a poster. Five of six covers in the "Extremis" arc of IRON MAN were Iron Man in five different poses. Almost every SPIDER-GIRL cover was a poster (usually attempting to make her look sexy). All you saw when you went to the shop was a wall full of Marvel posters. Even worse, the posters didn't necessarily have *anything* to do with what was in the comics. One FANTASTIC FOUR comic set entirely in Latveria was covered in a poster of the Human Torch flying through Manhattan. An X-MEN comic featuring Beast on the cover didn't have Beast in it. Joe told me his rationale: "The cover's job is to attract *new* readers. If a *longtime* reader like *you* likes the character, you're going to buy the book no matter what's on the cover, and if you don't like the character, you're never going to buy the book no matter what's on the cover. So I'm not going to confuse a new reader by putting a bunch of details about what's inside on the cover. I'm just going to put the best 'wow' image I can on there as a hook for a new reader." He argued that new reader sales were up, thus proving his point. But I still maintain that a cover's job is not just to appeal to new readers but to longtime readers as well who are often looking for a reason to start buying books they previously lost interest in. That's why, after having left the Spider-Man titles for years, a cover showing Spider-Man and Ezekiel together -- both of them sticking to walls, indicating Peter's powers were not unique -- got me reading AMAZING SPIDER-MAN again for a couple years. So Joe was half-right: Once the Spider-Man/Ezekiel cover got me back onboard, the later covers that were just posters didn't drive me off the book. But he was half-wrong in that I needed an interesting cover to get me back into the book again. And it would be ridiculous to think I was the only one. Probably there were a whole host of longtime readers out there wishing the wall wasn't so *boring.* Moreover, if a new reader weren't attracted enough to the mere image of a character on the cover to buy the book one month, putting poster image after poster image, month after month, on the book wouldn't do anything to hook that reader either, whereas maybe putting an inkling of story on the cover would do the job. (This is another reason why I despite frequent #1 renumberings as well -- the #1 cover is often a poster, and a poster gives a longtime reader like me no reason to buy the book.)
Which part? Not sarcasm, I seriously want to know because I wasn't a reader during his tenure as EiC (and am not that into that era), so I don't know all the history.
@@AceLM92I was a lapsed reader who came back to Marvel and comics in general because of Marvel Knights, especially the Kevin Smith and Quesada Daredevil Born Again arc. Essentially, what Quesada related is my recollection at the time, and obviously Mark Miller agreed since he didn’t correct Quesada. There are certain fans who simply love to hate Quesada, especially for what he did to Spider-man with the OMD storyline. Haters gonna hate.
@Mr_Rob_otto yeah I dislike One More Day and his reasoning on it, but I got to give credit to Quesada for helping save Marvel. Still have more respect for Jim Shooter though. Jim will take full responsibility for Avengers #200 instead of scapegoating any of the other 3 writers.
With all due respect Joe has his head in the sand about all the bad hiring and straight up bad business practices in the industry right now. Its either a HUGE blindspot or just straight up spin or denial because he's partially at fault and doesnt want to walk that plank himself.
It has been speculated that since Netflix and Dark Horse have a licensing and creative partnership deal, Netflix wanted to put everything under one roof.
Mark Bagley wasn't a hot artist? Mark Bagley got hot on the Warriors, sales went up. So after big sales with McFarlane and Erik Larsen left Bagley got the book. He was on it longer than both those guys. Marvel didn't promote him as hot, but they didn't plan on promoting any artist at the time. Both Capullo and Tony Daniel are still top guys today, which Marvel didn't promote. Joe is a great storyteller, but the facts escape him.
Great conversation even though I disagree with Joe about comics doing great. Last episode on Millar Time he had retailers who said that Manga is high in demand and selling crazy than Marvel & DC comics.
Would you consider making a podcast with Bendis, Quesada and other people involved in the Ultimate Universe to talk about how you created the project and how it evolved? Also have you thought about an episode with Garth Ennis?
I mean he did also save the company before that, so he deserved some credit for that. Millar, bendis, Brubaker, JMS, Hickman, Ennis etc. would not be a thing at marvel without Quesada
@@Alex-yx5qhI mean yeah, but if you set fire to your own house and burned it to the ground, does it matter that you installed emergency sprinklers before hand? Obviously not. Quesada may have contributed to saving the industry back in the day, but he's a big part of why Marvel is in the state it's in now. He should at least own up to that.
@@trevorpearlharbor5171that is for sure true. He was a good Editor in Chief imo, but certainly was not a good talent scout in terms of who he put in charge afterwards lol. Also he is responsible for breaking Spider-man with OMD, which is worth mentioning. Still, he is also directly responsible for one of the best periods in marvel comics history, so he also deserves that credit.
@@bambambambamhaupt don't undersell Quesada. He's responsible for the ultimate universe. He had a big hand in marvel knights. He brought both Mark Millar and Bendis to marvel. Overall during his time as editor on chief, comics sales grew, and the industry recovered, and Quesada had a large part in that.
Hey Joe i have a pitch for you. Everything that Marc Guggenheim suggested for MJ is happening in this story. But for Charlie Cooper. What do you think?
The problem with most editors and CEO’s, former and current, when it comes to candor, is that they’ve gotten to their positions by being political and it shows in their interviews. I’m 46 so I lived through the 90’s, with 1996 probably being rock bottom for Marvel creatively. That said I was reengaged not with Marvel Knights, but the Busiek/Perez Avengers. A very successful series that Joe seems to hold in distain because, in his view, it was a love letter to the past. Paradoxically he doesn’t seem to accept how Busiek was attempting to push new characters in the book to balance the nostalgia. For me, though I don’t deny his era rejuvenated Marvel to a degree, creatively I find most of it highly overrated. To sum it up in brief so I don’t continue to ramble…Watchmen for Dummies.
How could he change Stan's greatest quote that Stan didn't always follow? Stan Lee's comment was "never give the audience what they think they want." The fans want the Thing to be well justice or the for him to be able to transform back and forth. Al Milgrom said, this means that the fans feel for Ben Grimm, not for the creator. Also the Do No Harm? Quesada got Ditko upset for saying, "We have to break the toys."
“Crazy Bob” is CEO of an entertainment company. 🙃 And those Dads you speak of are customers, even in the analogy theyre In a comic shop, they love comics and have been lifelong fans. They have a right to their opinion and I don’t believe they should be ignored because of their age. There is a difference between a h8 miner and a true fan.
They should definitely be ignored because of their age. Going after an old demographic is suicide. But the problem is Marvel doesn't appeal to any of the cool young people. Just the dorky activist nerds on Twitter.
Didn't Quesada fuck up the Captain Britain reprints, because Alan Moore is still pissed at Marvel to this day. That is why the Miracleman reprints don't have his name in the credits despite Alan Moore being the writer. Sure, Moore is a curmudgeon, but don't lie Joe
The reason why this collapse is different is because Disney has no interest in selling comics. That's not the business model. The old model of making comics to sell them to customers is dead. The only reason comics exist now is to be IP containers so Disney or whoever can make a movie about these characters. Sales don't matter. And with the movies tanking now, the future isn't looking good. Disney could care less about comic sales.
No kal el. Is not super man. Sorry guy. He didn’t grow up with his alien family, telling him what to do how to do it how to be a man nothing Clark is who he is Superman is the act.
Its crazy to me that as accomplished, competent and entertaining a writer Neil Gaiman is, his Marvel work is always mid at best, and I would daresay almost assured to be bad. Its like he's just not built for that universe. Even the long awaited MiracleMan conclusion was a disappointment (especially for HIM. This worst work is better than 99.9% of the slop out today)
1:06:07 No Joe. You aren't going to play that card and blame the audience yet again. Those "Dads" you're making fun of are your CUSTOMERS. Those people had to take abuse from the comic pros for YEARS because they were unhappy with the DRASTIC changes that were made to characters for no other reason than to virtue signal. They were called every name under the sun by comic pros, who are "Dads" themselves. The customers REACTIONS are a direct result of the industries ACTIONS. No one at Marvel or DC were telling their creatives to stop denigrating their audience. In fact I'm sure they co-signed it until sales got to the point of were they are today and yet they STILL can't stop some of them form doing it. And we know why they can't stop them. The same reason they can't fire them or edit their work. Stop blaming customers for the failings of the industry and maybe we can get somewhere. And just as an aside, why insinuate that being a Dad and being invested in comics is bad? You said earlier that working in comics had a sort of shame to it then you turnaround and lay that same shame on the customers as well!?!? Bizarre. Is working in comics no longer shameful because the movies hit the mainstream but reading them as a "dad" is still for losers? Swing and a miss Joe. Also, it's has nothing to do with them not being what they were like when we were kids. I'm a "Dad", I've been through 3 full decades of comics and they changed drastically over the years. This latest era however really sucks. Look at the sales for proof.
Hahaha hell to the no comics are no longer for the fans it's been polluted with stupid ideology from people who don't and won't ever give a damn destroyed from the inside
As a Spider-Man fan, I was not a fan of OMD, that being said Marvel really kicked ass under Joe Q. No denying they ate DC’s lunch when Joe, Bendis, Millar and their friends were the creatives at the company.
All the people going for Joe's neck in the comments... I don't think the hate is warranted. A lot of judgement from ppl who have no real concern for his position here
"Toxic fans are offended" What?!? You like kissing the @$$ of people who get a THRILL out of offending their customers on a daily basis? Well before Twitter existed, Joey Quesadilla was doing that to his customers online regularly! I couldn't believe the fawning I saw towards Quesadilla and Marvel in the late 1990s and early 2000s but, hey, if you wanna be in comics or Hollywood you gotta suck off you-know-who for your gigs! Joey showed the way for "TRUE" way for "comic book professionals" (aka bad screenwriters) to act towards fans! Quesada is the anti-Stan Lee. Stan wasn't an asshole towards comic fans. Quesada TOOK DELIGHT in torquing his customers and being a jerk to the little people. At least Stan had enough class NOT to insult the people who were buying Marvel Comics regularly!
The industry was cancelling any books that went below 100k sales in the 90's but the industry was about to go bankrupt. These days they are lucky to sell 20k copies on anything below the top 10 books, but the industry is doing great. We must be in opposite land.
That part 🔥🔥🔥.
Chapters:
00:00:00 - Comic Book Updates
00:04:49 - Hot San Diego Memory
00:10:02 - The Self-Loathing Within The Comics Industry
00:15:07 - Dealing With Uncertainty At Marvel
00:20:07 - "The Lunatics Have Taken Over The Asylum"
00:24:59 - Marvel's Reputation Fix
00:29:50 - Surviving The Comic Book Crash
00:34:55 - The Importance Of Solid Art And Consistency
00:40:04 - The Policy On Internal Freelancing
00:44:50 - The Energy Of The Room
00:49:58 - New Comics From Dark Horse
00:54:47 - The Impact Of Civil Liberties And Civil Rights
00:59:54 - The Rise Of Extremism In Media
01:05:05 - The Struggles Of The Golden Goose
01:09:51 - Seeking Something New In Comics
01:14:41 - The Cycle Of Repetition In Genre Fiction
01:19:56 - Marvel's Characters And Their Masks
01:25:06 - The Dual Personality Of Clark Kent And Peter Parker
01:30:09 - Relatability Of Comic Book Characters
01:34:57 - The Joy Of Drawing And Writing
01:39:51 - Memories From Marvel
01:44:33 - Producing At Amazon
01:49:23 - Saving The Business With Marvel Knights
01:54:39 - Coming Soon
Thanks for doing this!
Joe agrees with the UA-camrs about Hollywood going to crap but doesn't agree with them about comics going to crap, he's biased because he has skin in the game and is friends with the people who are doing it. The characters are a shadow of their former selves and the fight scenes are 1 panel long now if they even have any.
You have non-comicbook fans writing the books just to try and transition into a job in Hollywood and they don't care how many characters they have to trash to do it.
Pure facts!
This is sad too because some of the best early x-men stuff was written by someone who didn't start in comics but supports the ones ruining it 100%.
Not every comic book fan should write or draw comics. Sometimes that just leads to more of the same stagnation that is in the books now. You get everyone that wants to retell their favorite story line in the book revisiting times that passed. It’s ok. Hit and miss is the order of the day lately. That can agree on. I feel if they find a good writer and they are working with a good artist they should let it keep rolling. Hopefully both will stay on the book.
Joe looked like Neo with all the bullets he attempted to dodge about sales
If the industry is doing fine, why are they hiding the sales? Wouldn't they want to show off their great sales numbers?
Quesasda is the king of spin
When Joe says the industry is fine, that’s him trying to avoid responsibility for the state it’s in, as he’s one of the principal architects of the state it’s in. Good for him, though, that he was able to take a golden parachute out, while the industry has to pay for his mistakes.
Even though he might have made mistakes I think Marvel had every reason to be successful in the 2010s with the explosion of the MCU which was a lot more influential to pop culture than X-Men or Spider-Man. It's not his fault they blew it and turned comics into something niche that doesn't even appeal to the niche. At least Quesada had a bunch of comics that anyone could read and the stuff for comic book fans actually appealed to them for the most part
Joe is responsible for literally the opposite of what you wrote. 😂
Love that Joe gave Kevin Smith his flowers during the end perhaps Mark can get Kevin on the future to both talk about their writing process and the marvel culture at the time and the film business? 😮
Great interview. Would've loved it you'd touched on Ash - I'm surprised Joe has never tried to integrate either Ash himself or any of his villains into Marvel continuity - the Actor I always felt would make a fantastic Daredevil rogue.
Glad to have Millar Time back!
This was really interesting to watch as an avid floppies buyer. I'm 23 and I've loved comics since I was 16, but I didn't start getting single issues regularly until I was 19 instead of just picking up trades of classics. What got me into the medium proper were a couple exciting new titles: Simon Spurrier's Hellblazer and Al Ewing's We Only Find Them When They're Dead. These were books that were so exciting and interesting that I simply couldn't wait until the trade came out, and every few months I find something new that grips me like that. But the process of sorting through the shlock can be daunting. Over the last couple years there have probably been a hundred vampire comics, and many of them are really good, but the industry is over saturated. Maybe that's reflective of something in the shared cultural consciousness, maybe it is people doing knock offs of more popular books, probably a mix of both, but it creates a glut. We are spoiled for choice with very limited avenues to discern what is actually quality outside of just trying books out
Joe. Most of the fans haven’t forgiven you for Spider-Man one more day. And until it’s retconned, it’s doubtful most fans will.
meh idc either way
Most fans are stupid. 😂
@@classyguy69 Maybe because you're not a Spider-Man fan.
Great conversation!
47:53 You know what, fair play to Tom. In that moment he was right. Spidey and Wolverine should never have been Avengers. I get it from a sales POV, but narratively speaking and from how the characters have been historically written it just doesn't work for most of the fans. And more importantly the fans can see why it's being done and although we all know it's a business it still leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Thumbnail looks like a before and after shot of a guy getting vacuum sealed.
I stopped listening to Joe when he said comics are doing fine. Guess he's ignoring the news of comic shops closing down.
Look at sales not shops closing.
"Blame nobody, Expect nothing, DO SOMETHING"
Loves Joe's art since the 90s, now i can say i respect the man as well.
The Christopher priest story about him losing the gig for that 1998 hulk series to a editor who's name was Glenn Greenberg and the title was rampaging hulk with art by Rick Leonardi
Only one side takes your head off and everyone knows which side that is.
Thanks! I enjoyed this conversation.
Love the editing! Great interview!
Interesting conversation.
What a great podcast!!!! Love all the things happened with Marvel backrup!
Great conversation. I’d love to see you two make a book together
1:04. Joe lost all that weight and gained it all back and then some!!! 😮 Man is a millionaire with no stressful deadlines! Needs to take care of his health!!!!
Yeah, sales are getting lower and lower these days too. Stores are closing. I guess noting changes. Sure hope Marvel stock is doing well.
That was great!
@Mark You really dropped the ball not asking for Joe to explain retailers' reports of sales being significantly down when he claimed they weren't. Your last interview was a Retailers' Roundtable, so you had a real opportunity to dive into that here a little bit. What happened?
Joe Queasada??? I'm IN!!!
I understand that Mark didn’t want to get into a fight with him…but “Crazy Bob” does have a UA-cam channel or two. I get that. But Joe, you hired Crazy Bob and his friends to destroy your IP’s.
I dont have a trust fund, nor any kind of residuals to live off of, so I have no idea what Quesada means "it's just business..." -does that mean I have to be a pseudo-activist and ruin IP and keep my job while hating on fans and rely on variant covers and alienating hype, wtf now? Why not just admit Marvel Comics is dead?
"what can you say to me as a shareholder" -today's response is "oh well, im sorry that you feel that way" -wtf... quesada sounds clueless, he may as well be talking about living in another dimension... there is no more value in fans any more, they have offshore hedge funds and social media companies to tell us everything is okay...
Another amazing episode from two masters of the comic book form!!
Honestly, Joe Quessadilla has a LOT to answer for after OMD.
To me, OMD was a big part of Peter Parker's down fall from that point onward. It was as if writers after OMD were completely content in making Spidey's life as miserable as possible. Dude lost his wife MJ and a good job as a teacher, put him in a miserable relationship with Mockingbird, brought back MJ just to get him cucked by some rando. It just became status quo to shit on Peter Parker's life from OMD onward, and it ruined any real growth for his character.
At the very elast, Joe could tell us why he made OMD to begin with.
He was right. No one cares about married Peter Parker. The story was bad, but the intent was correct.
Marvel Comics died in 2015, the infection was there for all to see in 2010! It is just a rotting corpse now!!!
🙄
Spot on. Even the date.
I Think Miles Morales was were it started
@@theragoooverlord5021 yeah, Miles is so unpopular…
@@gkirkpatrick1004 his merch just sits on the shelf Greg. His comic's have never sold. He is more spider man cause of the colour of his skin and that's not as good as Peter's with great power comes great responsibility
Way back in the long ago, I won an auction and got to have a 2-hour lunch with Joe Quesada. (I've got a video about this on my channel, but here's the TL;DR.) The one thing I did not like about his reign at Marvel was the style change he directed for the covers. Every cover looked like a poster. Five of six covers in the "Extremis" arc of IRON MAN were Iron Man in five different poses. Almost every SPIDER-GIRL cover was a poster (usually attempting to make her look sexy). All you saw when you went to the shop was a wall full of Marvel posters. Even worse, the posters didn't necessarily have *anything* to do with what was in the comics. One FANTASTIC FOUR comic set entirely in Latveria was covered in a poster of the Human Torch flying through Manhattan. An X-MEN comic featuring Beast on the cover didn't have Beast in it.
Joe told me his rationale: "The cover's job is to attract *new* readers. If a *longtime* reader like *you* likes the character, you're going to buy the book no matter what's on the cover, and if you don't like the character, you're never going to buy the book no matter what's on the cover. So I'm not going to confuse a new reader by putting a bunch of details about what's inside on the cover. I'm just going to put the best 'wow' image I can on there as a hook for a new reader." He argued that new reader sales were up, thus proving his point. But I still maintain that a cover's job is not just to appeal to new readers but to longtime readers as well who are often looking for a reason to start buying books they previously lost interest in. That's why, after having left the Spider-Man titles for years, a cover showing Spider-Man and Ezekiel together -- both of them sticking to walls, indicating Peter's powers were not unique -- got me reading AMAZING SPIDER-MAN again for a couple years. So Joe was half-right: Once the Spider-Man/Ezekiel cover got me back onboard, the later covers that were just posters didn't drive me off the book. But he was half-wrong in that I needed an interesting cover to get me back into the book again. And it would be ridiculous to think I was the only one. Probably there were a whole host of longtime readers out there wishing the wall wasn't so *boring.* Moreover, if a new reader weren't attracted enough to the mere image of a character on the cover to buy the book one month, putting poster image after poster image, month after month, on the book wouldn't do anything to hook that reader either, whereas maybe putting an inkling of story on the cover would do the job.
(This is another reason why I despite frequent #1 renumberings as well -- the #1 cover is often a poster, and a poster gives a longtime reader like me no reason to buy the book.)
Yeah, things are looking up. Just look at the excitement for the new xmen relaunch.
Joe Quesada's Ash deserves to be republished.
No Joe. Stop trying to rewrite History.
Which part? Not sarcasm, I seriously want to know because I wasn't a reader during his tenure as EiC (and am not that into that era), so I don't know all the history.
@@AceLM92I was a lapsed reader who came back to Marvel and comics in general because of Marvel Knights, especially the Kevin Smith and Quesada Daredevil Born Again arc. Essentially, what Quesada related is my recollection at the time, and obviously Mark Miller agreed since he didn’t correct Quesada. There are certain fans who simply love to hate Quesada, especially for what he did to Spider-man with the OMD storyline. Haters gonna hate.
@Mr_Rob_otto yeah I dislike One More Day and his reasoning on it, but I got to give credit to Quesada for helping save Marvel. Still have more respect for Jim Shooter though. Jim will take full responsibility for Avengers #200 instead of scapegoating any of the other 3 writers.
When Joe was in charge of Marvel and DC was doing things like the Solo series was the last time i genuinely enjoyed superhero comics.
Yeah, provide some context why you made this comment.
With all due respect Joe has his head in the sand about all the bad hiring and straight up bad business practices in the industry right now. Its either a HUGE blindspot or just straight up spin or denial because he's partially at fault and doesnt want to walk that plank himself.
It's the elephant in the room anytime comic industry people talk in public
ugh. Quesadilla. Good luck to you, Mark.
Did Mark ever explain why he switched from Image Comics and is now going through Dark Horse Comics? Can anybody help me out with that?
I don't think so... probably not Mark's style... methinks Dark Horse threw lots of $$$$$$ at him :) ... probably nothing personal.
It has been speculated that since Netflix and Dark Horse have a licensing and creative partnership deal, Netflix wanted to put everything under one roof.
Great talk
A good comic sells around 50, 000, "are not dying," i want what Joe drinks.
The Stan Lee story is great. Gives a great way to differentiate between Marvel and DC character motivations.
Mark Bagley wasn't a hot artist? Mark Bagley got hot on the Warriors, sales went up. So after big sales with McFarlane and Erik Larsen left Bagley got the book. He was on it longer than both those guys. Marvel didn't promote him as hot, but they didn't plan on promoting any artist at the time. Both Capullo and Tony Daniel are still top guys today, which Marvel didn't promote. Joe is a great storyteller, but the facts escape him.
Sounds like that we won't get a volume 2 of The Ambassadors this year. So probably in 2025
Was a lapse reader in 98 I was in college and got into comics again.. thanks guys for making it exciting again
Great conversation even though I disagree with Joe about comics doing great. Last episode on Millar Time he had retailers who said that Manga is high in demand and selling crazy than Marvel & DC comics.
Would you consider making a podcast with Bendis, Quesada and other people involved in the Ultimate Universe to talk about how you created the project and how it evolved?
Also have you thought about an episode with Garth Ennis?
Nice one Mark cheers 🍻
You let the carpetbaggers in and destroyed the company. The end result is yours and yours alone.
I mean he did also save the company before that, so he deserved some credit for that. Millar, bendis, Brubaker, JMS, Hickman, Ennis etc. would not be a thing at marvel without Quesada
@@Alex-yx5qhI mean yeah, but if you set fire to your own house and burned it to the ground, does it matter that you installed emergency sprinklers before hand? Obviously not.
Quesada may have contributed to saving the industry back in the day, but he's a big part of why Marvel is in the state it's in now. He should at least own up to that.
@@trevorpearlharbor5171that is for sure true. He was a good Editor in Chief imo, but certainly was not a good talent scout in terms of who he put in charge afterwards lol. Also he is responsible for breaking Spider-man with OMD, which is worth mentioning.
Still, he is also directly responsible for one of the best periods in marvel comics history, so he also deserves that credit.
@@Alex-yx5qh,,,,,,,, ,Paul Jenkins saved Marvel.
@@bambambambamhaupt don't undersell Quesada. He's responsible for the ultimate universe. He had a big hand in marvel knights. He brought both Mark Millar and Bendis to marvel. Overall during his time as editor on chief, comics sales grew, and the industry recovered, and Quesada had a large part in that.
When is Jupiter Legacy Vol 6 due out?
Hey Joe i have a pitch for you. Everything that Marc Guggenheim suggested for MJ is happening in this story. But for Charlie Cooper. What do you think?
1:19:00 great Stan Lee approach to storytelling.
The problem with most editors and CEO’s, former and current, when it comes to candor, is that they’ve gotten to their positions by being political and it shows in their interviews. I’m 46 so I lived through the 90’s, with 1996 probably being rock bottom for Marvel creatively. That said I was reengaged not with Marvel Knights, but the Busiek/Perez Avengers. A very successful series that Joe seems to hold in distain because, in his view, it was a love letter to the past. Paradoxically he doesn’t seem to accept how Busiek was attempting to push new characters in the book to balance the nostalgia. For me, though I don’t deny his era rejuvenated Marvel to a degree, creatively I find most of it highly overrated. To sum it up in brief so I don’t continue to ramble…Watchmen for Dummies.
i want joe quesada to teach how he draws
Ohh shit, Millar is interviewing his old boss.
I'm still pissed at Joe Q for OMD
YES!
This is the best Millar time ! only ties with Travis Charest
Send the regards to the editor! ❤️
How could he change Stan's greatest quote that Stan didn't always follow? Stan Lee's comment was "never give the audience what they think they want." The fans want the Thing to be well justice or the for him to be able to transform back and forth. Al Milgrom said, this means that the fans feel for Ben Grimm, not for the creator.
Also the Do No Harm? Quesada got Ditko upset for saying, "We have to break the toys."
Joe looks like he enjoys food regardless if its mediocre...
Lmao
“Crazy Bob” is CEO of an entertainment company. 🙃
And those Dads you speak of are customers, even in the analogy theyre In a comic shop, they love comics and have been lifelong fans. They have a right to their opinion and I don’t believe they should be ignored because of their age.
There is a difference between a h8 miner and a true fan.
They should definitely be ignored because of their age. Going after an old demographic is suicide. But the problem is Marvel doesn't appeal to any of the cool young people. Just the dorky activist nerds on Twitter.
I came back to read comics thanks to Civil War
I hadn’t heard that Superman vs Muhammad Ali story. I know that Joe Kubert was originally supposed to do it and Ali’s people didn’t like it.
Didn't Quesada fuck up the Captain Britain reprints, because Alan Moore is still pissed at Marvel to this day. That is why the Miracleman reprints don't have his name in the credits despite Alan Moore being the writer. Sure, Moore is a curmudgeon, but don't lie Joe
Ok interesting intro
The reason why this collapse is different is because Disney has no interest in selling comics. That's not the business model. The old model of making comics to sell them to customers is dead. The only reason comics exist now is to be IP containers so Disney or whoever can make a movie about these characters. Sales don't matter. And with the movies tanking now, the future isn't looking good. Disney could care less about comic sales.
Couldn't care less. If they could care less that means they care.
Joe, your treatment of Dave Cockrum was pathetic, Cliff Meth spent A LOT of his time trying to get Dave help. A black mark of your Marvel reign.
One thing Joe Q has always been good at: Spinning BS 1:07:40
No kal el. Is not super man. Sorry guy. He didn’t grow up with his alien family, telling him what to do how to do it how to be a man nothing Clark is who he is Superman is the act.
Spider-Man would like a word.
He was peak Marvel and bottom of barrel Marvel.
No way near bottom of the barrel. That predated him… But I can’t speak on much of anything after him. 🤷♂️
And Stan Lee dies….. and what happened???
comics and MCU died with him
I'm glad to see Joe doesn't take doom and gloom grifting UA-camrs seriously.
👋
Listening, he really seems to get it. But he is infamous for several things he will never live down. A mixed bag for sure.
Dude is not being realistic on that state of American comics
Its crazy to me that as accomplished, competent and entertaining a writer Neil Gaiman is, his Marvel work is always mid at best, and I would daresay almost assured to be bad. Its like he's just not built for that universe.
Even the long awaited MiracleMan conclusion was a disappointment (especially for HIM. This worst work is better than 99.9% of the slop out today)
Sadly joe gave us bendis...
My goal is to obtain the entire Ultimate X-Men catalog
1:06:07 No Joe. You aren't going to play that card and blame the audience yet again. Those "Dads" you're making fun of are your CUSTOMERS. Those people had to take abuse from the comic pros for YEARS because they were unhappy with the DRASTIC changes that were made to characters for no other reason than to virtue signal. They were called every name under the sun by comic pros, who are "Dads" themselves. The customers REACTIONS are a direct result of the industries ACTIONS. No one at Marvel or DC were telling their creatives to stop denigrating their audience. In fact I'm sure they co-signed it until sales got to the point of were they are today and yet they STILL can't stop some of them form doing it. And we know why they can't stop them. The same reason they can't fire them or edit their work. Stop blaming customers for the failings of the industry and maybe we can get somewhere.
And just as an aside, why insinuate that being a Dad and being invested in comics is bad? You said earlier that working in comics had a sort of shame to it then you turnaround and lay that same shame on the customers as well!?!? Bizarre. Is working in comics no longer shameful because the movies hit the mainstream but reading them as a "dad" is still for losers? Swing and a miss Joe.
Also, it's has nothing to do with them not being what they were like when we were kids. I'm a "Dad", I've been through 3 full decades of comics and they changed drastically over the years. This latest era however really sucks. Look at the sales for proof.
Hahaha hell to the no comics are no longer for the fans it's been polluted with stupid ideology from people who don't and won't ever give a damn destroyed from the inside
The Left have the same wants and needs as the right wing for EVERYONE not just people like them
As a Spider-Man fan, I was not a fan of OMD, that being said Marvel really kicked ass under Joe Q. No denying they ate DC’s lunch when Joe, Bendis, Millar and their friends were the creatives at the company.
IMO the JMS run on Amazing Spider-Man is the best era of Spider-Man ever. Spider-Man was just unfuckwithable in the early 2000s.
All the people going for Joe's neck in the comments... I don't think the hate is warranted. A lot of judgement from ppl who have no real concern for his position here
Toxic fans are offended
Gheyyyyyyy…!
The guy that made me stop buying comics forever.
Id like to thank him for all the money I've saved.
"Toxic fans are offended"
What?!? You like kissing the @$$ of people who get a THRILL out of offending their customers on a daily basis?
Well before Twitter existed, Joey Quesadilla was doing that to his customers online regularly!
I couldn't believe the fawning I saw towards Quesadilla and Marvel in the late 1990s and early 2000s but, hey, if you wanna be in comics or Hollywood you gotta suck off you-know-who for your gigs!
Joey showed the way for "TRUE" way for "comic book professionals" (aka bad screenwriters) to act towards fans!
Quesada is the anti-Stan Lee. Stan wasn't an asshole towards comic fans. Quesada TOOK DELIGHT in torquing his customers and being a jerk to the little people.
At least Stan had enough class NOT to insult the people who were buying Marvel Comics regularly!
@@MisogynyManweak
@@tony1984la ok