@@not_jon_vendi as a stream moderator, I realise the importance of this to channels I like, thanks! I also love videos like this, in part to delight in the suffering caused by cursed games but moreso because I find it inspirational to see the player overcome the hurdles and become a gamer champion! One of the best feelings in a game
I looked up the developer Lion Entertainment and it seems they mostly did ports. Only one other original game is listed on MobyGames, unless I missed something. So in that regard it seems understandable why the game had its flaws. I feel like the ring of sustenance in the 2nd level must have been the devs noticing their hunger system was broken, unbalanced or unfun, and instead of taking it out they “defused” it by putting the ring in so early. Anyways I love this kind of gaming archaeology, so thanks for playing and making a video about it.
@@plasticflower glad you enjoyed it! Yeah it seems the devs have this game, and it's sort of prequel, Slayer, which was really just a random dungeon generator. Some of the missteps can definitely be forgiven. If nothing else I did enjoy unearthing a bit of D&Ds past, and the art and sound really was pretty good.
I gotta say, AW, this was one of my favorite videos of yours. Super entertaining. Its like you were frustrated and voiced the games awful design, and i felt it, but you werent overly negative which really made it fun to watch. What an x mas treat.
Glad you liked it! Its actually given me the taste for more wonky titles. As much as the game might not be great, it's fun to dissect just why it failed. Also animating a dwarf getting smashed in the head with a combination lock is one of the highlights of my UA-cam experience.
8:00 A witchers dream. I am working on a system mechanic for a game right now that works very similar to how real life health works. Potions and anything else a player consumes has long term effects on physical health. This can be a good or bad thing for the player. Just like in the real world you can slowly build up health problems over time that will need to be addressed. Might wana keep an eye on how many of those strength potions ay? Sure they stack... But in this world potions stack you if you aren't careful. This sounds like a terrible mechanic but I haven't ever played a game with it so... Here goes nothing?
I think it could be a really interesting mechanic if implemented properly, like developing a health potion addiction, or getting ulcers from too many mana potions. Do heroism potions cause liver failure? ;)
90s games really are dangerously unpredictable. They can either be so easy that even a child could complete it. Then you have some that are near impossible to beat or are so obtuse with their densely layered mechanics/bizarre copy protection systems, that you just have zero hope of figuring it out.
It's so true. The copy protection systems from the 90s were nuts too, some were wild. I think it was monkey island that had like a spinning disc thing that came with the manual where you would turn it to line up with a certain picture to reveal a word or something like that. Like a decoder ring. Super weird, but also really unique to the period. Imagine a game today coming with a spinning decoder wheel haha.
I did some digging around and the only name i can find for an actor on Deathkeep is Randy Tow. He has two more recent movie credits, one called East of Hollywood and a Jack Black movie called The Polka King.
@@misawa8629 damn! That's a good find. Well I think there are only 2 voices in the game, so he is either the necromancer or the skeleton. Maybe he's both.
It's highly possible that Randy Tow, the only voice actor seemingly credited, did all the voices in the game. I feel like development wouldn't have had the budget for more, given the game's state.
So, is Deathkeep a sequel to Stonekeep ? Because I've heard good things about Stonekeep. That about does it on my knowledge of Deathkeep. Is there a reason you didn't pick the GoG version of Deathkeep ?
From what I understand DeathKeep is sort of a sequel to Slayer, though Slayer itself was just a random dungeon generator with no story. Haven't actually played that one so take it with a grain of salt. Stonekeep is its own thing and I really want to give it a try soon, I'm a sucker for FMV. I got the Steam version because they have a dedicated forgotten realms launcher thing, and I have other games on there so I wanted to keep them all on one platform... It's a lame reason, if you pick any of these up GoG is usually the way to go!
@@EnigmaticLlLLair back in my teen partying days we were at a pharmacy in the middle of the next day after being up all night on mdma and ketamine and my friend made this joke about a rack selling spiderman 2 to a random middle aged guy who started talking to us about the DVDs who "DID NOT GET IT" and I had to sit there while my friend tried to explain the joke to him which ended with the man saying "whaddaya gay or somethin?"
@@LostQuests it was new for me as well! Disappointingly it turned out to be a bit of a flop, but it's still fun to see some of the more obscure things they did with AD&D back in the day.
I've played my share of dungeon crawlers and janky RPGs - even tried Descent to Undermountain... didn't work - but Deathkeep (and maybe Thunderscape too) has bored me enough to not finish them. Gave it a try after it dropped on GOG and that was my first refund in the store and I'm there since 2008.
It was especially disappointing because I really liked how the game looked and sounded. I thought I had stumbled on a hidden gem. The video was really fun to make at least.
I haven't played it myself but Descent into Undermountain may be worse than this. The fact that that game was made with the engine for a 3d flight sim engine probably helps its case.
@@deathnotehell1 I just looked it up... They actually used the engine from descent and thought that would be good for an RPG. That is unhinged, but I sort of want to try it now lol.
@@chenandrew83 I liked the early game, but found it really felt apart after you gathered the orbs. I think it could have been really good with some different design decisions.
Most of the complaints seem to actually be about the AD&D ruleset which is ill suited to a FPS RPG, especially one where hitting is hard to assess. You essentially can't perceive the differences from combat only, the do matter if you are doing the rolling yourself on the tabletop...or computer games which give you proper feedback. Most effects are minuscule and something like +1 to hit and damage from a magic weapon is absolutely inconsequential...Except when the game mechanism has enemies that require magic weapons to do damage. This applies to strength (& bless & whatever potions too), which might have a net damage effect of 1 to 5 points per hit...vs 60 to 100 hitpoints. Highest possible difference is 14 points from strength 14 or under to 25. And levels as such do not add significant damage either.
@@Geenimetsuri you aren't wrong, though I will say with how many games they put AD&D into this one has to be one of the worst implemented versions of it. This game seemed to just make everything hit and removed the entire concept of attack rolls outside things specifically requiring magical weapons. Some people don't like to miss when they appear to hit, but it's pretty well necessary to employ the ruleset properly. EOTB and it's like did it pretty well, though some of the same issues exist there. This title just felt like it picked and choose what rules to apply, and it made for an inconsistent experience.
@@aquawalrus Oh, no doubt about being bad. Looked like a proper turd to me. Something like the damage counters & miss notifications from e.g. EotBs, as you mentioned, would've done a lot of good...and it seems impossible to assess from the gameplay what is counted and what isn't. Would not have changed the shittiness of level design, but would have added that hunting for bigger numbers aspect, even tho enemies would still survive only a couple of hits.
@@Geenimetsuri for sure, like the bad level design can be forgiven if the gameplay makes up for it but this has to be the best example of a game looking great, with almost no substance. Such a shame!
Man if I knew you were going to play this I would have suggested Dragon seed or some other game that you've probably never heard of and most people haven't reviewed
@@orcwarchiefreviews I mean, I do love recommendations. Especially weird obscure stuff. As much as this game was terrible, I actually had a blast making this video.
@@aquawalruswell you're going to absolutely love Dragon seed a game where you create "dragons" with some of the most epic and trippiest music you're probably ever going to hear
I freaking love these small channels. Keep doing your thing brother!
@@Iamgoat41 I love you too friendly goat!
Here for the algorithm for now. Cant wait to experience the misery of this game vicariously through you
@@not_jon_vendi it was an awful game, but a weirdly fun video to make.
@@not_jon_vendi as a stream moderator, I realise the importance of this to channels I like, thanks!
I also love videos like this, in part to delight in the suffering caused by cursed games but moreso because I find it inspirational to see the player overcome the hurdles and become a gamer champion! One of the best feelings in a game
I looked up the developer Lion Entertainment and it seems they mostly did ports. Only one other original game is listed on MobyGames, unless I missed something.
So in that regard it seems understandable why the game had its flaws. I feel like the ring of sustenance in the 2nd level must have been the devs noticing their hunger system was broken, unbalanced or unfun, and instead of taking it out they “defused” it by putting the ring in so early.
Anyways I love this kind of gaming archaeology, so thanks for playing and making a video about it.
@@plasticflower glad you enjoyed it!
Yeah it seems the devs have this game, and it's sort of prequel, Slayer, which was really just a random dungeon generator. Some of the missteps can definitely be forgiven. If nothing else I did enjoy unearthing a bit of D&Ds past, and the art and sound really was pretty good.
I gotta say, AW, this was one of my favorite videos of yours. Super entertaining. Its like you were frustrated and voiced the games awful design, and i felt it, but you werent overly negative which really made it fun to watch. What an x mas treat.
Glad you liked it! Its actually given me the taste for more wonky titles. As much as the game might not be great, it's fun to dissect just why it failed.
Also animating a dwarf getting smashed in the head with a combination lock is one of the highlights of my UA-cam experience.
Go and see Walrussy complaining about his fancy shoe collection
I'm all for some pretty boots, but I draw the line at boots of Dark Ooze protection. That's just too much for me!
8:00 A witchers dream. I am working on a system mechanic for a game right now that works very similar to how real life health works. Potions and anything else a player consumes has long term effects on physical health. This can be a good or bad thing for the player. Just like in the real world you can slowly build up health problems over time that will need to be addressed. Might wana keep an eye on how many of those strength potions ay? Sure they stack... But in this world potions stack you if you aren't careful. This sounds like a terrible mechanic but I haven't ever played a game with it so... Here goes nothing?
I think it could be a really interesting mechanic if implemented properly, like developing a health potion addiction, or getting ulcers from too many mana potions.
Do heroism potions cause liver failure? ;)
SSI's worse games tend to have better writing than Starfield and dragon age veilguard.
Haven't played Veilguard yet, but just from what I've seen online yeah I think you're right.
90s games really are dangerously unpredictable. They can either be so easy that even a child could complete it. Then you have some that are near impossible to beat or are so obtuse with their densely layered mechanics/bizarre copy protection systems, that you just have zero hope of figuring it out.
It's so true.
The copy protection systems from the 90s were nuts too, some were wild. I think it was monkey island that had like a spinning disc thing that came with the manual where you would turn it to line up with a certain picture to reveal a word or something like that. Like a decoder ring.
Super weird, but also really unique to the period. Imagine a game today coming with a spinning decoder wheel haha.
0:07 i thought your character was throwing cig butts at the enemies lol. With these games, it doesn't even seem like a stretch
I didn't even notice that, but now that you've pointed it out I can never unsee it.
The dwarf is canonically a smoker now.
@@aquawalrusI went back to watch frame by grame, assuming it was just a trick of the eye. Doing this just reinforced my original perception lol
I did some digging around and the only name i can find for an actor on Deathkeep is Randy Tow. He has two more recent movie credits, one called East of Hollywood and a Jack Black movie called The Polka King.
@@misawa8629 damn! That's a good find. Well I think there are only 2 voices in the game, so he is either the necromancer or the skeleton.
Maybe he's both.
It's highly possible that Randy Tow, the only voice actor seemingly credited, did all the voices in the game. I feel like development wouldn't have had the budget for more, given the game's state.
Very possible. I think there are just two voices as well, the necromancer and the three armed skeleton, so it makes sense.
Ah. The Three Do. More affordable but probably less fun than a Sea-doo.
Better than the Two do, but only half as good as the Six do.
So, is Deathkeep a sequel to Stonekeep ? Because I've heard good things about Stonekeep. That about does it on my knowledge of Deathkeep.
Is there a reason you didn't pick the GoG version of Deathkeep ?
From what I understand DeathKeep is sort of a sequel to Slayer, though Slayer itself was just a random dungeon generator with no story. Haven't actually played that one so take it with a grain of salt. Stonekeep is its own thing and I really want to give it a try soon, I'm a sucker for FMV.
I got the Steam version because they have a dedicated forgotten realms launcher thing, and I have other games on there so I wanted to keep them all on one platform... It's a lame reason, if you pick any of these up GoG is usually the way to go!
@@aquawalrus "The five dollars price tag is about twenty dollars too much" might be my new favorite line. I'll trust you on that one.
@@EnigmaticLlLLair back in my teen partying days we were at a pharmacy in the middle of the next day after being up all night on mdma and ketamine and my friend made this joke about a rack selling spiderman 2 to a random middle aged guy who started talking to us about the DVDs who "DID NOT GET IT" and I had to sit there while my friend tried to explain the joke to him which ended with the man saying "whaddaya gay or somethin?"
Never heard of this one always down to see more obscure d&d lore and media though
@@LostQuests it was new for me as well! Disappointingly it turned out to be a bit of a flop, but it's still fun to see some of the more obscure things they did with AD&D back in the day.
I've played my share of dungeon crawlers and janky RPGs - even tried Descent to Undermountain... didn't work - but Deathkeep (and maybe Thunderscape too) has bored me enough to not finish them. Gave it a try after it dropped on GOG and that was my first refund in the store and I'm there since 2008.
It was especially disappointing because I really liked how the game looked and sounded. I thought I had stumbled on a hidden gem.
The video was really fun to make at least.
What do you think, is this the worst dungeon crawler out there, or is there worse yet for me to experience?
Hmmm I would say no there are worse I fear to tell you but they are awful
I haven't played it myself but Descent into Undermountain may be worse than this. The fact that that game was made with the engine for a 3d flight sim engine probably helps its case.
@@deathnotehell1yeah there's quite a few bad ones and that's one of them that's more the fact the game was incomplete
@@deathnotehell1 I just looked it up... They actually used the engine from descent and thought that would be good for an RPG. That is unhinged, but I sort of want to try it now lol.
@@aquawalrus Apparently the game sucked so bad that they included an apology for it in the credits to Fallout 1 or 2.
I have played this game back in the days and it was pretty good
@@chenandrew83 I liked the early game, but found it really felt apart after you gathered the orbs.
I think it could have been really good with some different design decisions.
Most of the complaints seem to actually be about the AD&D ruleset which is ill suited to a FPS RPG, especially one where hitting is hard to assess. You essentially can't perceive the differences from combat only, the do matter if you are doing the rolling yourself on the tabletop...or computer games which give you proper feedback.
Most effects are minuscule and something like +1 to hit and damage from a magic weapon is absolutely inconsequential...Except when the game mechanism has enemies that require magic weapons to do damage. This applies to strength (& bless & whatever potions too), which might have a net damage effect of 1 to 5 points per hit...vs 60 to 100 hitpoints. Highest possible difference is 14 points from strength 14 or under to 25. And levels as such do not add significant damage either.
@@Geenimetsuri you aren't wrong, though I will say with how many games they put AD&D into this one has to be one of the worst implemented versions of it. This game seemed to just make everything hit and removed the entire concept of attack rolls outside things specifically requiring magical weapons.
Some people don't like to miss when they appear to hit, but it's pretty well necessary to employ the ruleset properly.
EOTB and it's like did it pretty well, though some of the same issues exist there. This title just felt like it picked and choose what rules to apply, and it made for an inconsistent experience.
@@aquawalrus Oh, no doubt about being bad. Looked like a proper turd to me.
Something like the damage counters & miss notifications from e.g. EotBs, as you mentioned, would've done a lot of good...and it seems impossible to assess from the gameplay what is counted and what isn't.
Would not have changed the shittiness of level design, but would have added that hunting for bigger numbers aspect, even tho enemies would still survive only a couple of hits.
@@Geenimetsuri for sure, like the bad level design can be forgiven if the gameplay makes up for it but this has to be the best example of a game looking great, with almost no substance.
Such a shame!
Khazukan Kazakit-ha!
Well, at least one dwarf is anyway.
Man if I knew you were going to play this I would have suggested Dragon seed or some other game that you've probably never heard of and most people haven't reviewed
@@orcwarchiefreviews I mean, I do love recommendations. Especially weird obscure stuff.
As much as this game was terrible, I actually had a blast making this video.
@@aquawalruswell you're going to absolutely love Dragon seed a game where you create "dragons" with some of the most epic and trippiest music you're probably ever going to hear
@@orcwarchiefreviews I'm all for weird music.
This reminds me a lot of Elder Scrolls: Arena meets Kingsfield. shame it's not a very good game.
It really does look cool on paper, it's just a shame it's so poorly implemented.
Sounds more like 4E D&D.
Ever play Stonekeep? Another dungeon crawler with a problematic development.
@@Slybo I haven't, but it's been on my short list to play for a long time.
Play Deathtrap Dungeon instead, lol.
@@EonEsper-Kriz super challenging dungeon crawl from 98, onto the list it goes.
@@aquawalrus also, Wizardry 8 is always a good one... you probably already played it before tho, lol.