Big Enough for Whitetail?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
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Nowhere else can you get such a perfect blend of ballistics and beautiful story telling on such a consistent basis
@Justin Mochi I agree
Thank you kindly, Justin.
@@RonSpomerOutdoorsyou remind me of my grandfather who is no longer with us. When I was too young to appreciate it, he would tell me this kind of data about the different calibers and I’m pretty sure he had forgotten much more than I will ever learn lol.
I love the videos and brings back some great memories
It seems like the 22-250 is an underrated cartridge... I've shot a many of deer with it before I started handloading and I always shot the Barnes factory ammo with the 55gr TSX for deer and I never lost one with it. I also had a 22-250AI built and I've shot up to an 80gr ELD-M out to 1000 yards with phenomenal accuracy and I've shot a few deer with the 75gr Gold Dots and 62gr TTSX at about 150ish yards and they just folded up like they were hit by lightning. So I think you hit the nail on the head with this one as always and great video brother keepem coming!!!
I am an old man now, in my 70s after having hunted deer for over 50 years. I have shot deer with 338 Win Mag, various 300 magnums, 30-06, 7MM Remington Mag, 270 Weatherby Mag, 270 Winchester, 264 Winchester Mag, 25-06 Remington, 243 Winchester and lastly a 45 Colt through a Marlin 1894 rifle. I have failed to observe any consistent relationship between caliber/cartridge and effect on lethality. All will kill equably well given good shot placement. Understand, I have never shot at any game in excess of 250 yards and do not regret that self imposed limitation. I wish I could say I have never lost a wounded deer but that would be untrue. I can say the loss had nothing to do with cartridge. I have just recently decided that if I continue to hunt deer, it will be with a 223 Remington as I am convinced it will be as lethal as any other cartridge given proper bullet selection and shot placement. We must remember that thousands of deer are killed with arrows every year.
My niece uses a .223 WSSM for deer and drops them dead. I'm a fan of bigger bullets, but the little ones do the job if you do yours.
Well said!
I used my ar with hornady american whitetail this year and got a doe and buck the doe dropped where she stood the buck took about 5 steps and was expired
An Arrow is not the weanie weapon you seem to think it is. An Arrow weighs many more times than a bullet. It imparts shock as well as killing by hemorrhage. The shaft helps to hold the wound open to expedite bleeding. A broadhead, stuck in a deer continues to slice and chew at arteries and vital organs if the animal continues to move. The .223 was intended to be light weight ammo, that could be carried in greater quantity by soldiers. Because hollow points were outlawed by the Geneva Convention, The .223 bullet was designed, in conjunction with rate of twist, to be unstable and keyhole when it hit the target. This was referred to as the buzzsaw effect. It leaves a vicious wound. The problem is that the .223 can't be counted on to do that in every case. Meaning some hits will be seriously inadequate. Out of respect for the animal, Use enough gun. A good rule of thumb, .24 minumum bore.
@@Phuc_Socialist_You_Tube couldnt agree more, 223 is so I adequate for deer only a complete imbecile would take one. Must really be a lot of pussies out there worried about their shoulders getting hurt from a man's gun.
Growing up in eastern Montana, my dad owned a 30-06, a 30-30 and a 22-250. He bought the 22-250 for coyotes. But then he had 5 sons. Needless to say, the 22-250 put down a lot of deer...both whitetails and muleys. I don't ever remember doubting it either.
I'd compare it to a 25-06 they use it on deer I think.
But I'd go 270 on most things up to african game cartridges,.....cause there's shit out there nobody will talk about.
You want a fast accurate gun,...or just stay home.
Never hunt alone.
They have 70-80 gr bullets for 22-250
I'd load some up and see how it does,....the Idea is to kill it not wound it.
I think 22-250 is used down south,.....where the deer are smaller.
And out west big deer 270 or bigger,......from my keyboard.
Yes indians and farmers have killed everything with 22LR.
Deers are ornery animals and they can take a hit well,.....get deer shoulder blades and do some testing.
I know a 22-250 is a surgical tool,......I'd go a little heavier on the bullet.
Bullet selection is why 45/70 is better than 444 marlin.
The best rifle for me to hunt white tails is a .243, I have shot more deer with .243 that the the .308, 30-06 rifles I also owned. I have shot tmen out to 350 yards successfully....Just my favorite rifle caliber....
Good old 243 Win and 6mm Rem. are a couple of my favorites, too.
Had a neighbor growing up who used a Anschutz 153 in .222 Rem and took his Deer every year . Said he never lost one , and only had to shoot two a second time .
Granted our Southwest Virginia Bucks were no monsters , but bullet placement and being able to shoot your rifle accurately are the most important part of the game .
The answer is yes it is, .243 win, 22-250, .223, 220 swift then you are ok
I had an uncle who was a trapper in Canada before WW II. Lost a few toes there to frostbite. He told me that, during the Great Depression, poachers would spotlight deer (at night, of course) and tap them between the eyes with a .22 Short. Why? Game Wardens couldn’t hear the little thing. I was a kid, so I never quite got around to asking him if HE had ever done that. Bet he did, though 😀
Great video!!! Shot placement cures many ills...I went for prairie goats with an acquaintance equipped with a 300 rum and I a 22-250 with 55 partitions. Mine dropped so fast it disappeared from view. His 11 shots , the three hits on legs and a lucky head finisher. It's the rifleman not the cartridge..within reason
Ouch!! 11 shots, someone needs some more practice, gentle trigger squeeze and and no flinching
@@Steven_Bresky yes on all accounts!
11 shots on an antelope. Was there anything left?
@@wesadrian6981 sorry 7 were misses
11 shots, wow. I usually don't even carry that much ammo haha.
7mm08 has become my favorite caliber.
My state Is .24 cal. and over, so yes it will, but giving the warden my truck and guns isn't on the top of my list. So . 243 and 25-06 is popular around here for people who want to do both. Thanks for the common sense content and info Ron👍. And happy and efficient hunting.
What state?
@@thenauticalhunter7388 NC
I'm not a big fan of 223 for whitetails, although I think .243 is definitely enough. Not sure about 22-250. I've killed several whitetails with .223. However, there was a big doe one time and I was using 55 grain barnes bullets which work great in bigger calibers for me. She about 60 yards away. Just as I pulled the trigger she moved and it hit the top of her leg instead of the rib cage. It went through the leg and in the rib cage but it didn't go through the vitals. I tracked her for 30 minutes and snuck up on her bedded down and shot her again which killed her. But a .243 80 grain barnes would have gone through the leg and through the vitals and come out the other side. And that's the difference. That's the last time I used .223 on whitetails. I have lots of other calibers to use that are better for whitetails. But stuff can and does go wrong and there is little margin for error for .223.
A 243 seems like a good compromise for both coyotes and deer with proper bullet construction designed for each purpose.
My REM 700 BDL .243, has been keeping my freezer full since 1977…..elk are the only critter I hunt that requires me to break out my .30-06.
A button will work on an outhouse door ,but they make better things. Use a gun that is made for deer if they are on the menu. It will also work on coyotes with no problem. The .22 calibers are not really deer cartridges even if people feel the need to use them. Just my opinion.
The .243 is the most popular deer cartridge in the UK. Duals as a fox blaster as well.
@@coinboss5818 I can’t argue with that choice, I have been using mine now for 45 years. Still keeps ‘‘em inside an inch all day if I do my part correctly.
It's what I started with for whitetails. Never had a problem with it. Put them down just fine.
22-250 22-250 ackley favorite loads are 75 swift sirrocco and 77 lrx from barnes works very well
For me it's not worth switching to an Ackley for 100 feet per second. I love the 22-250 with a 60 grain bullet also, the 25-06 with 100 grain, the 270 with 140 grain and the 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet.
Everybody should have the .22lr, 12 gauge shotgun, 22-250 and one of the last three I mentioned 25, 270 or 30-06. If, I could only have ONE rifle I would choose the 22lr or 12 gauge shotgun (with 6shot, 8 shot and slugs).
Another classic from Ron. It also speaks volumes to that partition bullet! Definitely my favorite hunting channel!
Mine too, I’d like Ron to start long range target gear
Do you mean like reviewing precision rifle stuff? Like for target shooting etc?
Is 250 savage considered a deer cartridge?
PA does still I believe. Buddy of mine uses his every year successfully.
I recently found one in a pawn shop and plan on having it in the woods next year. I have some 100gr ttsx and 100gr partition on deck to be loaded.
A very good one.
The 250 Savage works really well on deer with a 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip- I also shoot a 250 Ackley Improved with 80 grain Barnes TTSX that is deadly on deer, antelope and hogs, I prefer skeletal hits with the Barnes bullets. My 2 cents
@@paulblake4634 I’m shootings those same billets from my 257wby but about 500fps faster than the 250 savage will shoot them. I’ve got the gun off being reblued and stock refinished. I look forward to playing with it once it’s back
All the more reason to use 55 or 58 grain 243 with 80 to 100 grain backup
I'd say say anything larger caliber than .270 range is just overkill. People that say smaller rounds aren't enough either haven't shot much other than paper or are just thrill killers and care nothing about how much meat they blow to smithereens.
🤠 Sadly, you are right! 😭
Absolutely! But only if you really know your gun/cartridge and your game. I’ve taken more white tails with my Savage 223 and 52 grain hollow points (because it really likes them) than every other cartridge I have combined mainly because it’s always with me. I keep my shots within 200 yards and always take a heart shot just behind the shoulder. They drop like a rock.
Ken I have a savage 223 as well is that a handload or factory load if factory what brand? Not sure I've ever seen a factory loaded 52 grain.
Excellent video Ron. Thank you for sharing that experience with us. Many years ago, a friend of mine shot the 22-250 from ground blinds at deer at 100yds. Neck shot them all. DRT.
harvested a bison this weekend. 243 between the horns 1 shot.
its the bullet more than the caliber!! shot placement and bullet choice are always #1
thanks again for another great video
I’m so excited! I got a Savage 110 Apex in 6.5 Cm, and it’ll be the first I’ve ever used with a lefty bolt! Thanks for the videos Ron!
Good luck finding 6.5 CM ammo, the real hunt begins there.
@@Hill_Billy_Without_A_Hill I’ve got one better!!! Try finding 209 (shotgun) primers for a .50 caliber in-line muzzleloader???
I call my local gun store every so often…do dice for 14 months…nothing!!! Online…nothing anywhere!!! I’ve gotten sick of looking…
@@danielcurtis1434 I know your pain. fortunately I ran into some 209s awhile back, some I'm good for a little while. If you do find them, they are ridiculously marked up with any primers. Your best luck might be online.
Good for you for finding the lefty bolt action. As a lefty myself I gravitate to lever action and Remington 7600 which I love. But, last week I found a left hand bolt also in Savage Apex, .350 Legend for hunting with my grandsons who live in Ohio. Reloading is quirky with the Legend so for now it's factory loads.
Got my first coyote while deer hunting in Upstate NY with a 130gr Barnes. Went so fast through him at 125 yards there was minimal damage pelt damage (both entry & exit) I know people who use 243 with varmint grenades and have no exit on larger yotes. Thanks for the content Ron! 👍
In the left ear out the right eye or vice versa drop like a boxer rocks!!!!!!!!
Great video. I probably would have taken the 243 in this situation but as you said… knowing what you have and how to use it is paramount. Thank you.
Shot placement
Great story Ron.
About 15 years ago i was employed by NJ fish and wildlife management to cull whitetails. boom/ bust crop cycles, over limitting of tags and a 3 year plauge of cwd left the herds VERY, VERY unhealthy. We were given 22 magnum rifles and the option to use other methods of harvest ( so long as it was approved and a legal method of hunting)
Most guys were using slug guns muzzleloaders and a few " purests" used a bow. But the 22 mag did the job just as effectivly, if not cleaner.we were givin instructions to aim for neck shots, but even a decent heart/ lung shot rarely resulted in more than a handfull of steps before the deer laid down.
The " industry" is first and foremost interested in selling their wares, whatever that might be.
Thats why we will perpetually see "new" options being made the " standard". Look at hunting equipment, its not uncommon to hear of people hunting deer with what is essentially a magnum anti material caliber, or " you cant hunt X with Y" typically when talking about anything bigger than a Labrador; and a cartridge not invented in the last 3 years.
Its jist ridiculous. Peoole are turning their noses at 308 win and 30-06( both MORE than enough for ANYTHING in the western hemisphere) and using 300 win mag for a 125m shot. Its marketing. plain and simple.
Personally, id rather not hunt with rimfire for decent sized ( & non furbearing) game. but i have no problem with using .223 with a good pill for anything up to mule deer.
When I coyote hunt I love to damage the pelt, fur and body. More damage the better. I use my 7mm rem mag, nosler 140 gr B Tip. Same as I use on deer
Fantastic video Ron. My grandad always hunted with a 22-250. He always dropped em dead in there tracks every time.
Understand your bullet, shot placement and practice practice practice. Love the video!
White tail is a very interesting animal . I shot a white tail in a shotgun zone.and hit a medium sized six point at 20 yards with a 12 gage slug. The shot took off the top of the heart and broke a leg leaving. The buck ran 80 yards. The same year I hit a 5x5 bull elk with a 270 W 150 grain Nozzeler at long range and hit the top of the heart just breaking a rib going in . The elk made it 50 yards. Pound for pound the white tail is very underrated. The slug though ruined a lot of meat and at that range a 20 gage slug would've been fine. The problem is a 270 at the same range is overkill. Many still believe in the rifle zone believe the 30-30 is a better choice. Recently in Minnesota the caliber has been lowered. The recommended choice is now the 22/250. . I like the 243 , but both should work . At long range the 270 W is best . 😎
It would be nice to be able to detune a 270 W when the shot is under 200 yards . Then you would have one caliber to take While tail, otherwise a 270 is over kill . 😎
Fantom, your 12 gauge anecdote is a perfect answer to Poker of bears comment. There just is no cartridge/bullet that can guarantee what he and most of us would like -- instant lights out. We do the best we can.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Yes definitely . I had the sorry job of putting down a deer poorly shot . I've had some myself ,but this time I didn't have a gun . I had to put and arrow in it and I still feel bad because I couldn't put the arrow in the head and wasn't going to wait for a firearm and watch it suffer. All good hunters should have compassion for anything they hunt . 😎
"Hunt honest & shoot straight" ... a great theme!!!
It's always big enough when it's a .308 or a 30-06 😁
And with the right bullet selection inside just about any distance that I can honestly hold steady enough the amount of drop is going to be negligible. Impractical terms it's going to be point blank holds out past 300 for my projectile in 30.06.
Yep
Always wanted fast twist 22-250AI. Have 243 9 twist so I guess I'll be ok. Lol. Enjoy your channel slot. Thank you sir.
Why didn't you just wait for him to stand up on his own time? I've spent 25 minutes crouched in the prairie with my gun on sticks waiting for a monster 10 pt to stand up from his nap. Gave me some time to take some deep breaths and make a great shot.
The sinking sun said time was growing short. Like 10 min. short. Didn't want to wait until last minute and lose tracking light if needed.
243 is great for both so is 2506 and many others.
Love these hunting stories!! Great bullet tips as well. A lot of people here use .223 and .22-250’s for caribou actually.
I've seen several deer taken with cartridges from .222- 243
I think legally in Nebraska, you have to be shooting a rifle/cartridge combo capable of at least 900 ft/lbs at 100 yards. In some states, .243 is the smallest caliber allowed to take a whitetail. I’ve always been taught, at least 1,000 ft/lbs, but I know guys who hunt with their .223 AR’s (which I just wouldn’t be comfortable doing), which drops below that threshold at just over 100 yards. As always, shot placement is the most important part of the equation.
I moved to Montana 20 years ago and it's been bang flop 1 shot kills with 7mm08 308 and 3006 except for one cow elk that needed two. Then I thought I'd take me 6mm Rem out and sure enough I shoot a big mulie like I've done for 19 years and he went down feet in the air. But as I was getting my gear he jumps up and runs off. 100 gr Sierra two hundred yards chip shot. Since being in Montana I've heard of about 8 times of the 243 failing. We have big deer so use something 6.5 and up.
🤠 Ronbo (Montana Mountain Man) - Yep! 😉 We do have BIG deer (Big Elk, Moose, and Buffalo, etc.. too) here in Montana! 🦌 And, that is why I use a 270 Winchester! 😁
Ive killed deer with everything from 17hmr to 00 buck to 300 win mag. And ive wounded deer with 3006 and 7mm Rem Mag...its all about shot placement
I have shot lots of white tail deer and most of them I shot with a 3006 right behind the shoulders. If they don’t fall right there I don’t even chamber the next round because he probably won’t make it 50 yards.
25-06 is the best for everything in that area
I'll never understand why people think these calibers are too small for some game. Oh thats a womens caliber or its a good youth caliber??? Do you think the deer knows who pulled the trigger and should act differently because of it.
Ron i.have shot many 300lb south texas bucks in my time with a 22.250..55 grain corelock Remington all under 250yayds it as hard hitting as my 300 Weatherby...did not have one run it is a amazing round just haft to have dhot placement...I always went right behind shoulder...
👌🏻
Any animal that can b killed with an arrow can b killed with a 22-250. And I have heard of a few people killing Deer with an Arrow..
I had open heart surgery about five years ago, only 3 weeks before the Idaho deer opener. My surgeon said "absolutely no shooting of rifles or shotguns. The recoil will rip open you sutures".
So, do you really think I skipped deer season that year? Hell no! I simply toted my light-recoiling 22-250. Shooting 55 grain Noslers, I shot a small buck at 150 yards and dropped him in his tracks.
Shot placement for the win! My first deer was taken with a 22-250 Rem in SW MO and I have been hunting deer here with 223 Rem ever since. My brother still loves his 22-250 for deer out to 300 yards.
Back in the 1980s-90s. Missouri had .25 cal and above for whitetails. They have since changed it to any centerfire rifle cartridge , I believe..
@Jeremy Chapman And at the end of the day your shoulder has no pain and your eyes are not seeing double, lol. Anything bigger than .270 win is really overkill for deer size game.
@@donaldmartin4980 Not true because hunting also is in many types of terrain .
In the Pacific NW we have Hugh canyons to shoot over so a 7 mm Rem mag - 300 win mag and the 300 Wby mag are Highly popular.
At times we have shot deer or Rosevelt Elk so far you could only see the horns by using High powered optics.
I watch a Rosevelt Elk shot by a 7 mm Rem mag so far away I was using 10x optics to see the horns.
The game animals are untouchable by short range deer guns 30-06 !
@@Lure-Benson Lol, I have engaged targets with .30-06 at over a thousand yards, it is hardly a short range cartridge. The average hunter hasn’t got the tools ( military type scope with a mil dot reticle and repeatable accurate adjustments) couldn’t dope wind and bullet drift and drop , let alone shot angle adjustments . They simply don’t have a clue and shouldn’t be engaging living animals beyond 300 yards.
@@donaldmartin4980 WOW ! was that fun spouting allot of hot air BS !
Here in the Pacific NW we have Hugh canyons and often even when I used my 30-30 I like to shoot at rocks across the canyons to see if I could hit then as more often I could so it prove nothing of your spouting off BS
I think a 6mm of some sort is the perfect dual purpose deer/antelope/coyote rifle...a light 70gr smk for coyote if you want to be fur friendly and say a 100gr partition for deer/antelope...
243 win
@@TheREALLibertyOrDeath or 6 creed...both have varmint loads and deer loads available factory if your not a reloader...I'd say just about every gun safe has a 243 of some sort...100gr factory soft point loads are plenty for deer in most situations
Ron I’ve taken deer and kangaroo with .22lr many occasions. Just last Saturday night I took 3 Roos
Shot placement is key
Ronbo (Montana Mountain Man) - "Rambo", I like your style! 😁🤭😂🤣
@@ronlowney4700 legend I like yiur style mate
Man you stressed too much I killed an elk with a 22 Swift it's all about placement a 22 in the heart is worth more than a 50 cal in the guts always remember that
I shot my first whitetail with a .410 slug it doesnt take alot to take one down its more about shot placement than anything else
Hanging on every word of that deer hunting yarn. You friend are the Garrison Keillor of camp storytelling. Any promos on your channel offering to win a hunt with you? If not, take my advice and look into it. I know it would be a major win/win!👏🏿👏🏿
🤠 I like your idea!👍👏👏😤
🤠 Hunting with Ron and "blowing smoke"(B.S.) around the campfire! 😂
Small caliber Nosler Partition bullets are the worst! So much meat ruined from 223 and 243 projectiles our family uses em for target practice. They were found to bounce around the chest cavity turning everything into a nasty mix, then exiting out a hind quarter. My mom’s buck had a 2” patch hide blown off the right rump. Going to try Barnes TTSX and see if there is any difference.
🤠 Yep! 🤗 Expect the unexpected, always use a good quality bullet, and know your rifle! 😃 It paid off for you! 🤑Good Advice! 😁
the triple duce can do it why wouldn't 22-250 ? these videos are even worth watching
In NYS it's not legal to shoot big game with anything less than a 243. And understandably so, as was just explained.
I had a similar experience. I was hunting for coyote and I heard what sounded like a bunch of horses running in my direction. Now I'm in Northern Georgia (US) and it's pretty thick where I'm set up. I had a friends AR-15 with only open sights and I'm in a pop-up blind. It was to my advantage as that's what I trained with in the military. So I see the first buck and it looked like a Midwest monster and 6 doe were following and in the rear was another big buck all in about 65 to 70 yards. One doe got turned around and bleated so the rear buck turned around and nudged her in the right direction so without much thought I made a "bleating noise" and he turned around again and I was lined up in the instant and as I squeezed the trigger he had turned back around so instead of a heart shot I clipped the inside of the rear spine. He wasn't going far so I got out of the blind and went ahead and finished him off. I had a friend not too far away who had come up as he heard the 3rd shot and if it weren't for him nobody would have believed my story of a 15 point buck with an AR. He was so heavy after being field dressed we had to get another friend to help us get it in the back of a little Ford ranger and it was a struggle. That is likely the best true deer story that I will ever have.
I live in a state you're not allowed to use anything under . 23 caliber Hearing what other people can do with light calibers is always interesting
Me too. I'm using 165 grain 30_06. It will do the job on anything legal for me to shoot, within the limits of my practice.
@@GunFunZS I use 180 grain 30 06...works for Me
Those limitations are put in place to give the avg fudd a better chance at bagging the animal they are shooting at. Those limitations are faulty though. On deer I would definitely prefer to be able to use a 22-250 and 75gr bullet over a 9mm pistol cartridge.
@@NorthRiverGuide it would be legal to use a PCC 9mm here. I want too say there Is a minimum foot lbs for pistol hunting. But I agree, the rules are silly in a way. A 223 72 gr is a no go but 10mm pistol is fine
I sold my 22 250 to my buddy and he uses it for deer. Its his deer and beaver and coyote rifle. Im down with the 243.
I took the biggest buck I've ever harvested with a savage 22-250 with a 55gr VMax. I was on a property we had seen many does on and my intentions were to take a big old doe we had been watching with a 22-250. My plan was to take a neck shot on a doe and see what happened. I waited all day on a small ridge over looking a large bottom the does had been using as cover to go from the bedding to feeding areas. I sat all day and didn't see anything, not even a squirrel! 30 min before dark I was ready to go when I spotted movement 45 yards from me...it was a giant! He had been bedded 45 yards from me ALL DAY! I pulled up with that little 22-250 and thought "I hope this works". I rested it right where his neck met his shoulders thinking that was my best opportunity. It knocked him flat! He didn't move a muscle! I was impressed to say the least.
What is your twist rate, my 22-250 won’t shoot heavier bullets but I’m interested in that 60gr Nosler
My custom barreled Holland rifle has 1:8 twist.
Lesson learned, hunt coyotes with a 308 incase a white tail shows up 😆
Barnes while a bit pricey for coyotes makes some very good 55gr bullets that great on whitetails.
I've killed a pile of them with 55gr core-lokt's. Never chased one. Just lucky I guess.
My Uncle had a 22-250 and I took a shot from hillside to hillside in West Virginia close to 35 years ago. It was a nice 5 Point buck. Everyone said it was around a quarter mile shot. I am not sure. Just put the cross hair on the top and shot. Around 2 hours later is what it took to get to the deer 🦌. It opened up its lungs fast. Not sure I think it was a 60 grain bullet. The biggest deer I have killed was with a 22 long rifle Henry. We just needed the meat.
I father used to shot deer with a 22-250. It is all abour shot placement.
Placement. If you're accurate, any round does the job.
Both my boys started with a 22-250 for deer hunting. They used the Nosler Trophy 60 Grain. In what seems like an impossibility, both had the same experience. They shot a deer and it went right through the heart. The bullet went in and out between the ribs. No broken bones and a hole in the heart. No blood trail. We found both deer. One later in the evening in the dark. One the next day but the coyotes got to it first. So ... in this completely unscientific survey of only two experiences I'd say that you should NEVER go with a 22-250 for deer. For every rule there's an exception. Dad filling a doe tag by taking a head shot at 30 yards. Yeah. It works just fine.
Yes, reminds me of the time I heart/lung shot a whitetail with a 130-gr. 270 Win. and it ran 200 yards, no blood trail. Found it next morning. And the one shot through the heart, the holes about 2.5 inches apart one atop the other, with a 270 WSM, 130-gr. It courted a doe for another 20 seconds or so. And the TX buck taken with 150-gr. 30-06 from about 200 yards. No blood trail. Finally found it far back in a thicket. And the 3-legged Dakota buck that took threee 150-gr. from a 300 Win Mag to the chest before falling and expiring. But I don't think we should consign those cartridges to the dust bin of history. Lost, there are simply no shoulder-fired cartridges guaranteed to drop deer on impact every time. I once floored a running whitetail with a simple chest hit from a 75-gr. varmint bullet shot from a 6mm Rem. Good, bad, and indifferent have happened with every cartridge. Best we can do is aim small, miss small and use bullets in which we have faith due to past performance. Tracking is one of the oldest hunter's skills for a reason. Here's wishing you success with whatever round you choose to use.
Ron, the theme I see in your posts...know your rifle and ammo. Adapt and employ within their limits. After all, shooting isn't 100% about the tool. It's 100% about knowing how to use the tool. Ridiculous example... hit a moose in the eye with a .22 LR at 100yards. Just as dead as a well shot 7mm mag shot to the lungs & heart at 300 yards. Again point....know how to use the "tool". Don't fool yourself that the tool itself solves all shortcomings of the shooter.
Good point, Scott.
🤠 You nailed it! Yep! 😁
I like a 30 30 for brush hunting. Model 94
I'm all for hunting I support it and hey you're going to eat the meat that's great and why miss a wonderful opportunity. But I think of how terrible it would be to be a young buck about ready to get some or maybe the first time in my life with some fine looking female deer and then I don't know where I'm ended. I'm just saying couldn't you have given them 10-15 minutes let him you know do the deed then when he's all relaxed and chill and I'm about ready to smoke a deer cigarette you nail them. Think how good that meat would be
Reminds me of the Alaskan who answered my query about why salmon entering their spawning stream were jumping out of the water so frequently. "You'd jump too if you were about to enjoy your first and last procreative experience."
My first deer I ever shot was a doe with my 222 Remington.
Great story Ron. I believe in the ballistic research as well. While I'm not a fan of 22 cal for deer hunting, I have done my fair share of nuisance tags for does using an old Model 70 Varmiter in 225 Winchester. Using 53 gr x bullet around 3350 fps. Within 200 yards, I have to admit, it knocks them down and out. Keep in mind I'm on sandbags inside box blind. Typical shot straight up the leg, lower 1/3 chest cavity generally dropped them in their tracks. All the meat was either used by my family or donated to others. Point is, many combinations will work. It is up
to the hunter to know his equipment and load limitations. The animals deserve nothing less than our best effort to harvest cleanly and humanely.
Hunters!
This post is excellent and a lot of fun just to hear the hunting story!! I really enjoyed all of the wonky ballistic speak and it sounds like Ron has done homework and hunting and knows of that which he posts!!! Enjoy 🏹🦌🏹🦌🏹🦌🏹🦌
Love the story! Awesome that you use a 22-250AI. My go to is a Remington 600 Mohawk in 250 Savage with a an 80 gr TTSX. I considered AI-ing it but to me the efficiency of the Savage cartridge design makes it perfect. I also don't want to lose that extra cartridge in the magazine.
I've even used it on black bear 🐻. One shot DRT.
Not many still using the 250 Savage, Fabulous. Congrats to you. But I'm not understanding how going to AI would compromise magazine capacity. Cartridge width and length don't change. What am I missing?
@@RonSpomerOutdoors well because of the staggered feed in the blind magazine of my 600 Mohawk, and the tapered angle of the cartridge you gain 1 round. You see the spring and base plate are designed in such a way that the front of the base plate will not compress as much as the rear of the base plate. This is partly what pushes the front of the cartridge upward during the clambering/forward motion of the bolt. You see; when you load a magazine with straight wall cartridges, the spring and base plate don't max out at the rim end of the shell, it maxes out at the shoulder first. So because the diameter of the sholder is smaller the stagger becomes wider and less deep, therefor you can fit more rounds in the same space.
So my gun was a 308 which has a 3 round magazine, but it fits 4 Savage cartridges due to that slight taper. Try it with your magazine. Load it with 22-250AI rounds, then empty it then load it with regular 22-250 ammo and see if you would get an extra shot.
The issue for me with the AI or the Creedmoor, or the 243, is with the straight wall you use 20-35% more powder, and only gain 2-8% more energy, but lose 25-33% magazine capacity.
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080 Interesting analysis, focusing on efficiency !!!!
Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it. Like taking a 777yard shot at a whitetail deer. Knowledge is only useful if you apply it. Of course I would not expect anyone stalking coyotes or deer to be carrying ballistic tables with them.
Robert, many of us carry ballistic tables in our heads or tape drop/drift data to our rifle stocks or scopes. Others actually pull up tables on their smartphones in the field! Crazy, huh?
All the nuisance animal removers I know who mainly deal with removing animals from airports prefer 223, 22-250, and 220 swift. The fast light bullets create massive hydraulic shock that anchor the animals on the spot.
Also, the channel “long range hunting group” has a video showing how a 223 out performs a 50BMG on deer.
Wrong on many accounts.
This is one of the reasons I like the .243 Winchester. I would run lighter handloads for coyotes and make darn sure I would keep a couple 100 grain loads on me, especially if I were out there where I could see a deer from a distance. Either that or maybe a .257 Roberts.
I assume using .22 caliber for deer was legal for you. It's not legal to shoot .22 for deer in my state. So...know your game laws.
🤠 Agree Totally! No matter whether or not you agree with the game laws of each state, you are responsible to know them before you hunt and follow them once you do! Their is a legislative process to change the rules that you feel are unfair! But, hunt "Ethically" and then "Shoot Strait" (Should you get "an ethical shot" to take)! Just like "gun safety", it is better to be (hunt)"safe(ly) than sorry"! 😃
There's nothing wrong with a 22-250 for Whitetail Deer. I'm in Ohio so we were slug (shotgun only) before the straight wall cartridge but the states just south of Ohio have always allowed 223/5.56mm to be used for Deer. The Deer are a little smaller in some of those states but if your shooting a 60grn bullet or above it does well on that sized game. I believe they take Deer humanly from even greater distances than your shot and never have a problem. Some even say that they use a 22wmr. I'm not condoning that but it happens all the time there just closer I suppose. I personal if I lived in a state that allowed higher power rifles would go for the 6.8 Western or 7-08 they seem to be a great new updated version of some of the older tried and true cartridges that would humanly harvest an animal with minimum damage to quarry. I would love to see some ballistics gel tests on these newer cartridges though. That 6.8 most have superior penetration with the heavier bullets getting closer to the 30cal options out there. Great video I like the that you have strong moral background and make the tradition American hunter/sportsmen look good. God Bless until the next time!
Had a wild bunch of relatives on the wife's side; they killed tons of deer with 22 mags rode hunting. My oldest hunting friend used 220 Swift with 60 gr bullets on deer, preferring a high lung shot or directly into backbone. Those deer dropped immediately where they were standing!
Thanks Brad.
You are the FIRST HUNTER/SHOOTER, since an Iowa rabbit and bird hunter told me in the 60's that you start behind, PULL THROUGH, and touch the trigger as the barrel passes running or flying game.
I've practiced it myself, and have always had difficulty trying to detail the method to other shooters on some of these utube channels.
But kudo's for mentioning an awesome procedure that few hunters know of.
Awesome, just awesome! Hadn't heard it metioned by another man, since that early 60's moment, but, I never forgot it.
That pull through system works beautifully for pass shooting birds, too, from doves to geese.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors
The man who introduced me as a 12 to 14 year old, was a venerable wing shooter, using a Grand American Winchester, and everything they hunted in Iowa, on the ground or in the air, was movin' out fast.
I can't tell you, how your comment resonated with me, as you covered the topic so quickly, but comprehensively, it was like the flick of a deer's ear in deep south brush...but I caught it.
So few are aware of the concept, let alone the practice, and you are the only person to speak of this method, since that day long ago in early 60's that I've heard it mentioned.
Wish you'd devote a video to the topic and see how it generates interest. Both you and I are aware, it works. The success, lies in the barrels "tracking" as the swing synch's with the game...I'll not give away the "break timing" in hopes of your taking it from here.
Stuff of pros...it's what you do, and why we are here.
Again, kudo's Sir.
Try a .224 Valkyrie with 90 gr. bullets. Flat shooting and a legitimate 500 yard cartridge. On varmints much longer. Like to see a comparison of high speed 22’s. My 22-250 was re-barreled with a 1-8 twist and it likes bullets up to 77 grains. That really extends the range.
There is a guy on UA-cam who recorded himself taking four Impala(two separate videos) with a 22 Hornet. Kinda like a small deer.
Just a year ago while camping up on a mountain near Utah lake, I witnessed a guy kill an antelope with a .22 pistol. The animal dropped within 50 yards from where I was shot…
Its like a miniature .257 Weatherby shooting 100Gr. Speed kills!!
Here in Arizona our whitetail get a hundred pounds for a big one . A good hunting buddy always used a 22 250. He never lost a one,shot placement an a decent range.
Nothing beats the good ole .30/06.....
Had a few run right at me after shot. One kept getting lower and lower till he plowed the ground with his rack and flipped over right in front of me. He actually broke his left main beam at the tip in the process. Had another one come right after me and a friend and turned right in front of us. My friend actually took his backpack off to swat the buck with it before it turned. Had to go back home to get a light, because we did'nt bring one. My friend has always been quite the jokester in the woods, so you never know what he'll say or do. He'd always yell out deer and point when we'd be walking together in hopes of a comical bluff. When we went back to find the buck in the dark, he asked " how many points do you think he had?" I said at least 8. He said, what about fifteen?? I asked, you found him? That's when I could see him looking at the buck with his flashlight. That was a wooden M77 7 mag kill, but I've killed over 70 bucks with a 223. Ammo got high, so I opted out of belted magnums and 45/70, ect. The .223 55 grain soft point is a killing machine. I prefer a Remington 20" light tactical. Stiff, accurate, and steady. Has a nice swing too. Killed over a thousand hogs with it too....and truck loads of yotes. Mom put a rifle in my hands at 3 years old!
Interesting. Only deer I ever lost was a neck shot.
I enjoyed video and the story. Thanks Ron!
Glad you enjoyed it
I shoot pretty much everything around here with . 22 LR or .25-06. Nothing seems to get away.
Truly I think hitting them in the vitals is gonna kill them. U can hit them further than u can kill them with a lot of calibers, just use the rifle within its ability. Put a bullet thru the lungs and if that bullet disrupts and destroys tissue they will expire. I think 22-250 is really a lot like a 243 although 243 has heavier bullets.
Here in South Africa the harvesters use the 223 and 22-250 to cull eland.
Beware the man who owns one gun. … South African saying. I was in Barrow AK an Ineupiat
🤠 Ronbo (Montana Mountain Man) Quote (Response) - "Especially if it a 270 Winchester!" 😂
I love listening to Ron talk. I just started getting into guns for hunting and I've learned a lot from him. Still haven't chosen a rifle yet, but at least I can make a well informed decision.
If I was able to meet one person in the hunting community it would be Ron. Just love listening to him.