I have had both. To me the 6mm has killed a bit quicker. Especially on hogs. I have used the 80gr load the most. And my wife loves hers its a ruger 77. And I have bought my grandson one for when he gits big enough.
@@tbjtbj4786 yep! I love my 6MM REM. I think it’s funny that all these “new” 6mm rounds are getting press like it’s a new thing, the 6mm/243 has been around for ages and this new stuff is no better. Marketing hype....
I forgot about the 6 mm. I remember talking to a guy at work many years ago who said that 6mm was always his go to for deer hunting here in Missouri. It always worked for him.
@@atthebrink74 yea like the 6.5 to. The 260 vs the 6.5 cred. The 264 win and the 6.5 prc. They just keep making the same round in a new case over and over.
Just found this channel by accident looking for info on the 7mm. Not only do you seem extremely knowledgeable on the subjects you cover, but you have the perfect voice for instructional videos. Hopefully you'll keep making videos.
I've taken blacktails with the 243 and with 100 grain bullets it drops them like a bad habit! As usual, thanks for a great history of cartridge development and marketing, always nice to know the history of different cartridges.
Back in 1977 the first centerfire rifle I bought was a Ruger 77 (original tang safety) chamber in 6mm Rem. Very accurate, easy to reload, and with 80-90 grain bullets could be shot all day long without beating up my shoulder.
Remington has developed some great cartridges, but marketed them wrong. My favorite is the 280 remington. It should have been one of the most popular in North America.
I read a Jim Carmichael article back in 89 or 90 and had to get a 280rem. Once I got out of high school and got a job I ordered a 700 mountain rifle in 280rem. I've been happy with it now for nearly 30 years
Most accurate comment I’ve seen. Remington has made great cartridges that no one knows about..... .280 rem, .260 rem.. hornady’s marketing has been on fire over the last decade Remington might need to look to hire some of hornady’s folks.
I have picked up two 6mm rifles in the last 5 years and I have been amazed at the accuracy. In our area I can, actually , find several types of ammo still on the shelves while most everything is scarce. So everything Ron has portrayed has been right on point.
6MM remington. I have owned mine for 41 years. Model 788 in a left hand. Bought it new for 180$ mail order...lol. Topped it of with the same vintage Bushnell Banner 4x40 wide angle scope (back when they had proper optics). Gopher at 200 yards was not a problem. Started reloading for it and over the years, was putting my "go to" deer rounds into sub moa at 250 yards (Sierra game king 100 grain). I have also played with the 55 grain varmageddon hollow points.....same hole for 3 shots at 100. I will upgrade the scope and begin to stretch the bench rest out to 700 yards plus... It has taken moose, mule and white tail...and numerous other small critters. Most people turn up their noses on the range when they find out what it is....but ask alot of questions when it puts in a .5inch group at 200....
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hello Ron, I'm not an expert like yourself, But the argument has two sides. Why would a 243 out do a 6mm, 244 because it handles a heavier bullet better. They will all shoot the whole range of bullet weights designed for that caliber, but are you covering your groups with a dime or paper plate. My 244 1/12 twist will shoot very well with a 100gr round nose. The argument is not about bullet weight, but length. Both excellent cartages, but how many rounds did the other experts use to kill a small object with a light bullet 90gr to 55gr at distance? Great misconception.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hey Ron, great video as all the others you've made. Can you give me some advice, what would be your go to bullet for larger animals in 243.win ? I just got a new 243 for my wife, for the low recoil I'm in SA so she'll be shooting everything up untill kudu (at close range)
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A lot of good information, thanks for the effort. What about the new 6mm ARC? My first impression was just another round from Hornaday so what. After a lot more research I think this may be the best round for the AR15 platform that could turn it into a worth while hunting rifle.
My first rifle was a 5mm Remington, my first deer rifle was a Remington 600 Mohawk chambered in 6mm. Still have the rifle, that rifle and cartridge are special to me.
Thanks for taking time for a history lesson on 243/6mm. I continue to chuckle when I hear the 243 is a great cartridge for youth/women (it is). But in the hands of a skilled hunter/shooter/handloader, it is a lethal deer cartridge. With a slight change of fate/management/marketing we would be singing the praises of the 244/6mm Remington. I’m not going to complain too much about Remington as they have given me two of my all time favorite cartridges in the 7-08 and the .280. After P.O. redesigned the .280 case, I had a new No. 1. Thanks again Ron for a great video of an important historic subject.
Excellent information! I've been shooting .243 Winchester for over 25 year's and hand loading most of that time. 435 yards is my longest shot on a whitetail with it, (clear shot no brush). From taking rest on a fence post. The deer went maybe 25 yards. I will say at that range I was using a 100 grain bullet. With the right varmint load and practice. It is so fast and simple any varmint within your range is history. I used this method for years because of using cheaper scopes I didn't trust to be tracking true for turret adjustment. Take a scope that holds a true zero and a 1 moa rifle set to MPBR, combined with a decent shooter. It's deadly. Great job! Keep'em coming!
The amazing thing about the .243, is that while originally developed as a varmint cartridge, it became so popular for big game, that it was used by the LAPD SWAT teams for urban sniping roles. That alone really shows you how effective the .243 is.
Good video Ron I’ve been shooting a 6mm rem since 1978 love my rifle. It’s a real tack driver ! It just loves them 87 gr BT HP match ! As they are highly responsible for putting literary 1,000s of them wood chucks back to the promise lands. Keep going with your videos I enjoy them all thanks 😊
You are spot on with all I have heard n read about the 244 vs 243. Maybe, on the future you can do a story on the 280 Rem and 7mm Express fiasco. Thanks for video!
Very nice, respectful, non-sales hype and classy ending. Good info on the 243. My favorite gun shop owner said just about the same as you and he can't keep a 6mm Rem on the shelf! The word is out in Washington!
My dad bought me a ruger m77 in 243 back In 1983. I still use the same rifle. I have better rifles now but still use it. I think it just reminds me of hunting with my dad rip
I load those 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips for my A-bolt 243. Absolutely devastating on coyotes! Great bullets. Extremely accurate & very fast. 243 is my favorite rifle caliber.
Love and have both , the only reason I lean towards the 243 is because you can do a lot with the cartridge brass , make 308 , 260 , or any 308 based caliber which I also have ! Performance wise a deer would have a hard time deciding which was which , I Ackleyed my 243 and it's a long range monster 90gr V-max=3850 !
I still shoot my father's Remington 40x in 6mm he bought in 1970 for groundhogs. He taught me to handload for it back in the late 1980s. That 85 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing is an excellent and accurate all around bullet. Thanks, Dad.
I actually run the 85 Interbond at around 2900 to 3000 FPS for deer in 243. Amazing the thought back in the day about bullets. Now people use a 55 PSP for deer in the 223. Shot placement is everything regardless of cartridge.
I seen some aholes using a 460 S&W rifle on a doe, would you say thats ideal? or is a 243 far better? I say 243 all day is all u need unless in heavy brush
Hi Ron, Grits Gresham said in the nosler no. 3 that Whiskey Chamberlain took 15 bull elk one shot each with a 243 Winchester." WOW" He got close, but what a testament. If the 6 mm can take Elk look out Whitetail. Another great presentation.
One of my favorite rifles is a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight .243 with an old school El Paso Weaver K6 scope but in my case the scope is on hinged "tip off" mounts because on those older model 70's you have to raise the scope a little bit to clear the bolt handle. There are other solutions like taller scope rings or a bridge mount. I gotta tell ya, this little .243 is a really accurate rifle and handy to carry all day long. One time I hit a golf ball at 130 yards with an off hand standing shot on a bet. I was younger then.
Great video! In my opinion, the 6mm / .24 caliber are absolutely brilliant cartridges! Unfortunately, they are not allowed for large game here in Germany! the largest animal we can shoot with it are roe deer (Capreolus capreolus, about 15kg to 30kg or 33lbs to 65lbs) anything larger than that, we have to use at least 6.5mm and the bullet must have an energy of at least 2000joule at 100m or 1475lb- ft at 110yds Greetings from Germany
The 24 calibers are Awesome! I started out with a 243 Win then came upon a 6mm Rem and finally inherited a 243 Rockchucker in a BR rifle as well as a sporting rifle. The BR rifle has a 1/14 twist while the sporting rifle has a 1/12 twist so they shoot lite bullets while the 243 Win and 6mm Rem are Deer Killing machines! I also recently built a couple of AR's and one of them is a 6x45 with an X-Caliber barrel which is a great cartridge for an AR 15 platform, it's a Tack Driver and is Death on Coyotes as well as Javelina!
Little known fact. The 6mm Rem was used by the Texas sniper in 66. He used a Rem 700 ADL and Leopold 4X scope that is now in a museum in Gatlinburg Tn. 19 people buried. Obviously not a selling point.
I knew that he had used a Rem 700 but had forgotten it was a 6mm Rem. He was a pretty good shot. I had 2 friends who were working outside in the area while he was shooting. One was a lineman for the City of Austin Electric Dept. and the other was a cable splicer for SW Bell. I lived in Austin then but was working in Arkansas.
@BrdManZ a deer is just frankly in much better shape than an average human, with better conditioning. Deer can sprint a half mile or more at top speed after getting shot with a rifle with bad placement. If you asked a human to do the same thing, they would give you a thumbs up and a wry smile, stumble about 5 feet, and go into shock.
Thanks Ron. I got a old m77 6mm pre warning that I shot lots of coyotes with and shot the barrel out so made it into a 22-6mm. But then I had to get another 6mm in a model 22 cooper in a 6mm with a 1-8 twist and I shoot 107 nosler Rdf bullets. Really accurate. Love the 6mm. Thanks for the video. Always the best at it. U make the dessert dog look like a rookie. Keep the videos coming.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I'm made a mistake. They are 105 grain RDF bullets from Nosler. I shoot so many different bullets sometimes I cant remember. Lucky I keep a log. Thanks again Ron. Your awsome
Great video and topic. I grew up with a 270 but a lot after guys around me had 243's. My first varmint rifle back in the late 70's was a 220 Swift, which I still favor 40+ years later. However, 6 months ago I bought a Tikka T3x Superlite in 243 Win to bridge the gap between my 220 Swift and 7mm RUM. I worked up a load using the Barnes 80gr TTSX and I can't wait to use it for mulies, whitetail and pronghorn. Will be a nice coyote gun on windy days here as well. Don't know why it took me 40+ years to add o e to the stable!
I love your knowledge and history! I play with what are oddball or obscure calibers nowadays. Love the 22 hornet for a lot of things. But for this video I will go a little more main stream and say give me a 25-06 and 7-30 waters any day over the 243 and 6mms for light duty.
Actually Ron, there was a made in USA six millimeter cartridge long before 1955. It was the 6mm Lee Navy, developed in the 1890's. This was a straight pull rifle adopted by the U.S. Navy. Winchester then produced a commercial version Rifle which did not really catch on with the shooting public. The 6mm Lee navy was ahead of it's time, probably suffering from the lack of slower burning powders. Interestingly, the 6 mm Lee Navy case was the "father" of the 220 Swift.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I'm sorry Ron. Somehow I missed your later discussion. I almost purchased a straight pull Lee Navy at a gun show this year. If one wants to shoot the old Lee Navy rifle they have to re-form the 220 swift cases back to the original configuration.
Ron, Thanks for talking up the 6mm Remington it is definitely a misunderstood cartridge. Got an Remington 722 - 244 in excellent condition . Used a 40X (6mm) for years on groundhogs. Let me tell you, 55 grain Ballistic Tips @ 4150 (verified by chronograph) fps does a number on them.
I love my 6mm Remington. My father (long gone) knew his stuff and he got my 6mm in a 788 Remington in my hands back in the early 1980's. I love this sweetheart. AND he said he never saw a bit of difference in his .244 Remington and his 6mm Remington when it came to tight groups in ALL bullet weights. Yes he had both. Gun writers trashed the .244 for no reason and trashed a great .244 round. Both can be shot in either rifle.
Both of my sons started their hunting careers with H&R Youth Handi Rifles in .243 many years ago. I later upgraded them to the adult length stock. One still uses his as he has never missed and will not use any other rifle. The other "upgraded" to a 30-30 levergun because he loves lever action rifles. The .243 is a great deer cartridge, and an excellent varmint round.
Dad tried to talk me I tk one for my mood 7 featherweight on my 14th b day, I payed for it, but I just had to have a 308. A 180gr bullet would kick your butt In that thing. Big difference from the 150. Had a semi auto .270 that was a baby doll in comparison. Still love the model 7. Great for crawling through the thick brush. Is short and very light. Now im older I use an dks. Don't get long shots and they ru. Out of scope picture often. Made my $99 chicom sks my go to. Plenty accurate out to 109 meters.
If I want to work around the 6 MM availability problem, I'd just re-barrel to a faster twist. My present Savage Model 10 .243 has a 1:9.25 twist stock barrel, but I can go to 8 in a little heavier and 2 inch longer barrel with no wait except shipping. The rifle is already 9-10 pounds with a medium heavy barrel and the scope. Great from the bench...not so much carrying it around :) Fellow at the range had a Ruger #1 in 6 MM REM., so I always liked that cartridge. If I can find brass for what I like (old school), and re-barrel for twist, I wouldn't care so much. Kimber has a nice .257 Roberts option, but there's the factory ammo and brass problem.
Right on the money. I’m a .243 guy and I have pre-64 M70 that I bequeathed to my oldest grandson. My dad bought it around 59 or 60 and gave it to me a few years later. It’s accounted for a lot of wt and mule deer and antelope, plus a bunch of varmints. BTW, I cut my teeth on Mr Page, Mr O’Conner and Mr Keith.
.243 with the right bullets works great on whitetails doesn't tear up meat like some of the bigger calibers. It got a reputation of a starter round for kids but now days with the right bullets it's just a great choice.
I had a BLR in 243. I was always standing when I shot it. Not too bad on the recoil, but it was loud and the shockwave coming out of that thing was a crack up. I traded it for a 12ga BSS just out of the box. Picked up a Model 94AE 30-30 with the large loop years later and I run a 308 for everything else. Don't miss that 243 a bit.
Great Video and very informative on the comparison.For the past few years the guys on the Hunting Shows on the Outdoor Channel have been using that 6.5 Creedmore.Wow that round anchors almost everyone shot on the Spot if placed properly.And I am sure many are for advertising but it really works.If that is about what I can expect from a 243 that is very similar should be awesome to deer hunt with.I have used about everything except that and might have to give it a try.Thanks again.
Ive really enjoyed shooting and handloading for my Remington Model 770 in 243 Winchester. Ive spent hours at the range with it over the last 15 years, in fact there’s some 85 Gr Sierra’s BTHP on my loading bench even as iam typing this. But if I can get my hands on 6MM Remington i sure wouldn’t pass it up, the 243, 6MM Remington and me we all came out the factory in 1955 . (Wink)
Another factor that probably played into Remington's reluctance to offer heavier bullets is the .244's limitation on the height you can seat a bullet in its case before running into OAL issues.
I have a Win .243 Savage youth model and a Weatherby Vanguard. I use 90 gr NAB's in the Savage and either 95gr NBT's or 100 NP's in the Vanguard (my favorite deer rifle now). All the deer killed with either one so far were bang/flops out to 300 yards (longest shot).
I go to the LRSU One Mile Challenge with my .243 Winchester. My rifle is a Marlin stainless with a Vortex Viper PST II. Also have a Ruger in 7mm Magnum ❤️❤️🦋💋
I just went from a 7mm rem mag to 243 rem and it has the same capability (on fallow) but a lot less kick, thanks for the great video keep up the good work
You are the best. My Dad has been telling me for 30+ years the 6mm Is better then the .243. In the 80s they use to to shoot 5 shot group’s smallest group wins the pot. So they were building gun’s.
I used to use the old 243 for deer with 100gr federal shells and i hated it. I would loose deer because it didnt have enough punch or expansion. Then instarted relaoding and started using berger bullets... and i can tell you right now they shoot soo flat and if you smack a deer its lights out. My wife shot her first muley buck with my 243 with burger bullets at 490 yards and droped him. Most important thing about all cals is the bullet
There are far better factory loads available than the Federal SP. Nosler 95 grain BT or the Partition are both deer slayers. Federal fusion or the Barnes and Sierra's are all great too. Only soft points I've tried was Hornady Interlock 100 grains and they dropped the deer and passed through
The older I get the more I love my Tikka 243. I handload 85gr bullets to 3300fps and with good premium bullets I wouldn’t hesitate to take a 400yd shot at a whitetail. The light recoil is such a joy to shoot. It’s my “make sure it’s with me” whenever I go to hunt most anything. It’s never failed me.
Another great video Ron. Lot’s of fun to watch and I always make sure I have time blocked out to watch it. This video sort of reminds me of yet another example of how lousy twist rates can become the death or degradation of perfectly good chamberings by a companies mistake.
I have a Winchester Model 70 Classic Featherweight chambered in .243 win. I bought it new and have taken more deer with it than I can remember. (Lost a few too but we won't talk about that)
Thanks Ron! The cartridge history lesson is always interesting and informative. Really enjoy shooting the faster twist 6mm Creedmoor. Working up hunting loads for it but not finding bullet weights over 103 grains. Hopefully there will soon be some innovation on heavier hunting bullets for the Creed.
Thanks for another real cool video Ron. I just recently picked up a .243 Win rifle, how frustrating it is that I cant even find one box of ammo to sight it in with for under $50 online. I’m not going to pay such a ridiculous price, yes maybe $25 a box if I can ever find a box at local sporting goods. I would consider getting into reloading, but then can’t locate primers! Very frustrating to say the least to have a new gun you can’t even shoot targets with! 🥲 Keep up the great work on your channel my friend.
I have both the 308 and the 243, and in all honestly I prefer the 243 for accuracy over 200 yards. I shot a medium sized buck I would guess to be 200 or more yard and it liquified the heart. it was jelly. no recoil
You are one of my favorite writers. I miss Jim Carmichael and Grits Gresham. This information you give us on the 6mm reminds me of the .280 Rem. cartridge I love, but it is hard to find ammo for it. My dad would handload for my rifle and his loads when I did my part, 5 shot groups that make one hole. Sadly, I don't have the rifle or my dad anymore .
That was a great comparison of two cartridges when the better performing one lost over a lesser one. Remington has been the last to the dinner bell more times than just this one. Although they likely sold as many or a lot more rifles than Winchester did. Remington Core-Lokt bullets made Remington ammunition real popular. Model 70 actions cost more to make; and the 700 action cost less; they won that battle. But, the model 70 action is a better rifle action in many people’s opinions. I wonder what the future holds for both Remington and Winchester. It will be a sad day when these two names disappear like so many others have.
I think im going to do a 6mm Rem build 1 and 7" twist.. I got an old Husqvarna Commercial FN style Mauser I bought cheap.. Time to put it in the 21st century. This ought to be a fun project.
6mm Remington is a awesome Cartridge if you are running anything over 90 grainers you really need it in a long action with a little bit of throat in a 700 short you run out of magazine room real quick . Putting it in a long action lets you get the powder capacity while allowing you to get the high bc bullets past the donuts on the case.
I have several .243's that the kids use. They've taken numerous deer and never had one run off. These days the boys tend to use a 7mm-08 or 30-06 for hunting. I've only had one instance where the .243 worked, but barely. I shot a 250lb boar while hunting in South Texas. I hit it right on the spine above the shoulders at 100yds using a 90gr Speer Hot-Cor. The bullet penetrated the hide and blew up under the skin. It never even went through the fat. However, the nervous system shock knocked him down. Luckily, my knife finished him before he woke up, but I was really surprised when I cleaned him. Granted, a Barnes or Nosler Partition probably would have been a different situation. But, it was an eye opener.
Picked .243 as my deer rifle when I was a kid, even though one of my favorite gun writers, John Wooters was pretty much dead set against it as a deer cartridge.
I have a old M70 and I’ve loaded the 90gr HP, 100gr SP, 100 and 120 Barnes X all the way up to 160 Nosler Partition I like it big and with the light bullets recoil its recoil is just slightly more
6x57 was a experimental German cartridge also with the new Schlegelmilch rifle in the competion to what would be new service rifle in 1896. Mauser won, Schlegelkilch rifles was given to Kaiser and his friends. The 20ish rifles was well liked for hunting. Kaiser liked the 6mm with 115 grain ammo good, also for red deer size game too it was used for.
The 240 wby you can re bbl any long action rifle in 270, 30-06 ect to 240 wby. The bolt face is the exact same size, 240 wby is a 30-06 case with a belt. Good option for hand loading.
6 mm Remington always one of my faves.
Love my 6mm
I have had both. To me the 6mm has killed a bit quicker. Especially on hogs.
I have used the 80gr load the most.
And my wife loves hers its a ruger 77.
And I have bought my grandson one for when he gits big enough.
@@tbjtbj4786 yep! I love my 6MM REM. I think it’s funny that all these “new” 6mm rounds are getting press like it’s a new thing, the 6mm/243 has been around for ages and this new stuff is no better. Marketing hype....
I forgot about the 6 mm. I remember talking to a guy at work many years ago who said that 6mm was always his go to for deer hunting here in Missouri. It always worked for him.
@@atthebrink74 yea like the 6.5 to. The 260 vs the 6.5 cred. The 264 win and the 6.5 prc.
They just keep making the same round in a new case over and over.
Just found this channel by accident looking for info on the 7mm. Not only do you seem extremely knowledgeable on the subjects you cover, but you have the perfect voice for instructional videos. Hopefully you'll keep making videos.
Well thank you, Scott. I plan to continue with these videos for a time, at least.
Ron is one of my Heroes!
I've taken blacktails with the 243 and with 100 grain bullets it drops them like a bad habit! As usual, thanks for a great history of cartridge development and marketing, always nice to know the history of different cartridges.
Back in 1977 the first centerfire rifle I bought was a Ruger 77 (original tang safety) chamber in 6mm Rem. Very accurate, easy to reload, and with 80-90 grain bullets could be shot all day long without beating up my shoulder.
I love my .243, it's the reason I started watching Mr.Spomers videos.
Remington has developed some great cartridges, but marketed them wrong. My favorite is the 280 remington. It should have been one of the most popular in North America.
I read a Jim Carmichael article back in 89 or 90 and had to get a 280rem. Once I got out of high school and got a job I ordered a 700 mountain rifle in 280rem. I've been happy with it now for nearly 30 years
Most accurate comment I’ve seen. Remington has made great cartridges that no one knows about..... .280 rem, .260 rem.. hornady’s marketing has been on fire over the last decade Remington might need to look to hire some of hornady’s folks.
@@jakehembree3859 I don't think that's going to happen.
@@wilburnmartin9522 smart move from such a young man. It’s so versatile.
@@adamelam6385 probably the only smart move I made then 😆
I have picked up two 6mm rifles in the last 5 years and I have been amazed at the accuracy. In our area I can, actually , find several types of ammo still on the shelves while most everything is scarce. So everything Ron has portrayed has been right on point.
Wouldn’t want to sell some brass lol if I don’t find any soon I guess I will be necking down 257 roberts
My Weatherby Vanguard synthetic in 243 is my favorite rifle I own, you can NEVER go wrong with a good ol' 243!
I have one of those as well, love it.
6MM remington. I have owned mine for 41 years. Model 788 in a left hand. Bought it new for 180$ mail order...lol. Topped it of with the same vintage Bushnell Banner 4x40 wide angle scope (back when they had proper optics). Gopher at 200 yards was not a problem. Started reloading for it and over the years, was putting my "go to" deer rounds into sub moa at 250 yards (Sierra game king 100 grain). I have also played with the 55 grain varmageddon hollow points.....same hole for 3 shots at 100. I will upgrade the scope and begin to stretch the bench rest out to 700 yards plus... It has taken moose, mule and white tail...and numerous other small critters. Most people turn up their noses on the range when they find out what it is....but ask alot of questions when it puts in a .5inch group at 200....
Back in the '70s my first center fire was a 788 in 6mm and I loved it.
Only problem with the 243 , is it shoots sooooo nice , you are going to use up a lot of ammo. If you can find it.
Tremendously informative. Thanks Ron!
Thanks Mad.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hello Ron, I'm not an expert like yourself, But the argument has two sides. Why would a 243 out do a 6mm, 244 because it handles a heavier bullet better. They will all shoot the whole range of bullet weights designed for that caliber, but are you covering your groups with a dime or paper plate. My 244 1/12 twist will shoot very well with a 100gr round nose. The argument is not about bullet weight, but length. Both excellent cartages, but how many rounds did the other experts use to kill a small object with a light bullet 90gr to 55gr at distance? Great misconception.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Hey Ron, great video as all the others you've made. Can you give me some advice, what would be your go to bullet for larger animals in 243.win ? I just got a new 243 for my wife, for the low recoil I'm in SA so she'll be shooting everything up untill kudu (at close range)
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A lot of good information, thanks for the effort. What about the new 6mm ARC? My first impression was just another round from Hornaday so what. After a lot more research I think this may be the best round for the AR15 platform that could turn it into a worth while hunting rifle.
I just found this channel and I really appreciate this content. You are clearly very knowledgeable in this field. Thank you Ron.
I appreciate that!
My first rifle was a 6mm Model 77. Love the 6mm. Nothing bad to say about the 243 either, deer slayers. 👍
I had a Remington 788 in 6mm, loved that rifle! That thing would drive nails every day.
My first rifle was a 5mm Remington, my first deer rifle was a Remington 600 Mohawk chambered in 6mm. Still have the rifle, that rifle and cartridge are special to me.
You have a couple of cool ones there, Roger. Congrats.
Thanks for taking time for a history lesson on 243/6mm. I continue to chuckle when I hear the 243 is a great cartridge for youth/women (it is). But in the hands of a skilled hunter/shooter/handloader, it is a lethal deer cartridge. With a slight change of fate/management/marketing we would be singing the praises of the 244/6mm Remington. I’m not going to complain too much about Remington as they have given me two of my all time favorite cartridges in the 7-08 and the .280. After P.O. redesigned the .280 case, I had a new No. 1. Thanks again Ron for a great video of an important historic subject.
Excellent information!
I've been shooting .243 Winchester for over 25 year's and hand loading most of that time. 435 yards is my longest shot on a whitetail with it, (clear shot no brush). From taking rest on a fence post. The deer went maybe 25 yards. I will say at that range I was using a 100 grain bullet. With the right varmint load and practice. It is so fast and simple any varmint within your range is history. I used this method for years because of using cheaper scopes I didn't trust to be tracking true for turret adjustment. Take a scope that holds a true zero and a 1 moa rifle set to MPBR, combined with a decent shooter. It's deadly.
Great job!
Keep'em coming!
The amazing thing about the .243, is that while originally developed as a varmint cartridge, it became so popular for big game, that it was used by the LAPD SWAT teams for urban sniping roles. That alone really shows you how effective the .243 is.
Good video Ron I’ve been shooting a 6mm rem since 1978 love my rifle. It’s a real tack driver ! It just loves them 87 gr BT HP match ! As they are highly responsible for putting literary 1,000s of them wood chucks back to the promise lands. Keep going with your videos I enjoy them all thanks 😊
You are spot on with all I have heard n read about the 244 vs 243. Maybe, on the future you can do a story on the 280 Rem and 7mm Express fiasco. Thanks for video!
Very nice, respectful, non-sales hype and classy ending. Good info on the 243. My favorite gun shop owner said just about the same as you and he can't keep a 6mm Rem on the shelf! The word is out in Washington!
Thanks Chuck.
For me one of the most important factors is ammunition availability. .243, at least until recently was available almost anywhere.
My dad bought me a ruger m77 in 243 back In 1983. I still use the same rifle. I have better rifles now but still use it. I think it just reminds me of hunting with my dad rip
I load those 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips for my A-bolt 243. Absolutely devastating on coyotes! Great bullets. Extremely accurate & very fast. 243 is my favorite rifle caliber.
Love and have both , the only reason I lean towards the 243 is because you can do a lot with the cartridge brass , make 308 , 260 , or any 308 based caliber which I also have ! Performance wise a deer would have a hard time deciding which was which , I Ackleyed my 243 and it's a long range monster 90gr V-max=3850 !
I still shoot my father's Remington 40x in 6mm he bought in 1970 for groundhogs. He taught me to handload for it back in the late 1980s. That 85 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing is an excellent and accurate all around bullet.
Thanks, Dad.
Dad loved Sierra bt sp
I actually run the 85 Interbond at around 2900 to 3000 FPS for deer in 243. Amazing the thought back in the day about bullets. Now people use a 55 PSP for deer in the 223. Shot placement is everything regardless of cartridge.
I've taken lots of deer with the 243.
Never a deer but lots of fun shooting that versatile cartridge in so many weights.
I seen some aholes using a 460 S&W rifle on a doe, would you say thats ideal? or is a 243 far better? I say 243 all day is all u need unless in heavy brush
Hi Ron, Grits Gresham said in the nosler no. 3 that Whiskey Chamberlain took 15 bull elk one shot each with a 243 Winchester." WOW" He got close, but what a testament. If the 6 mm can take Elk look out Whitetail. Another great presentation.
Thanks Carl. Yes, I knew a careful hunter who claimed 13 6x6 bulls with as many shots from 243 Win.
It’s a shame that Remington thought it was a varmint round and changed it to late. Accolades for shot placement.
In 24 and my current favorite rifle I own is my Remington 700 chambered in 6mm rem. It was left to me by my grandfather.
Both calibers are awesome!!! 👍👍💪
Love my Remington 700 in the 6mm. One of the most accurate rifles I own.
Same...my REM 700 in 6mm is the most accurate rifle I’ve ever owned or seen.
788 in 6mm. Bought new in Blair’s Town Missouri. Price in 1979 was 152.00 with scope and a box of ammo.
One of my favorite rifles is a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight .243 with an old school El Paso Weaver K6 scope but in my case the scope is on hinged "tip off" mounts because on those older model 70's you have to raise the scope a little bit to clear the bolt handle. There are other solutions like taller scope rings or a bridge mount. I gotta tell ya, this little .243 is a really accurate rifle and handy to carry all day long. One time I hit a golf ball at 130 yards with an off hand standing shot on a bet. I was younger then.
Great video! In my opinion, the 6mm / .24 caliber are absolutely brilliant cartridges! Unfortunately, they are not allowed for large game here in Germany! the largest animal we can shoot with it are roe deer (Capreolus capreolus, about 15kg to 30kg or 33lbs to 65lbs) anything larger than that, we have to use at least 6.5mm and the bullet must have an energy of at least 2000joule at 100m or 1475lb- ft at 110yds
Greetings from Germany
Greetings Andre! Hope life is treating you well in Deutschland.
The 24 calibers are Awesome! I started out with a 243 Win then came upon a 6mm Rem and finally inherited a 243 Rockchucker in a BR rifle as well as a sporting rifle. The BR rifle has a 1/14 twist while the sporting rifle has a 1/12 twist so they shoot lite bullets while the 243 Win and 6mm Rem are Deer Killing machines! I also recently built a couple of AR's and one of them is a 6x45 with an X-Caliber barrel which is a great cartridge for an AR 15 platform, it's a Tack Driver and is Death on Coyotes as well as Javelina!
Little known fact. The 6mm Rem was used by the Texas sniper in 66. He used a Rem 700 ADL and Leopold 4X scope that is now in a museum in Gatlinburg Tn. 19 people buried. Obviously not a selling point.
I knew that he had used a Rem 700 but had forgotten it was a 6mm Rem. He was a pretty good shot. I had 2 friends who were working outside in the area while he was shooting. One was a lineman for the City of Austin Electric Dept. and the other was a cable splicer for SW Bell. I lived in Austin then but was working in Arkansas.
I must mention the DC crime museum is now in Gatlinburg too much crime in DC I guess.
@BrdManZ a deer is just frankly in much better shape than an average human, with better conditioning. Deer can sprint a half mile or more at top speed after getting shot with a rifle with bad placement. If you asked a human to do the same thing, they would give you a thumbs up and a wry smile, stumble about 5 feet, and go into shock.
He has a lot more guns up there than just a 6mm Rem.
Friend of mine has a Ruger 77 in 6mm. Cool rifle.
This man is a dictionary of info, very impressive. I view it as needed info for shooting sports.
Thanks SC. I don't really know all that much. Many gun nuts out there dwarf me.
Great video! 243 fan here.
Thanks for the sub!
Thanks Ron. I got a old m77 6mm pre warning that I shot lots of coyotes with and shot the barrel out so made it into a 22-6mm. But then I had to get another 6mm in a model 22 cooper in a 6mm with a 1-8 twist and I shoot 107 nosler Rdf bullets. Really accurate. Love the 6mm. Thanks for the video. Always the best at it. U make the dessert dog look like a rookie. Keep the videos coming.
Many thanks Vernon.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I'm made a mistake. They are 105 grain RDF bullets from Nosler. I shoot so many different bullets sometimes I cant remember. Lucky I keep a log. Thanks again Ron. Your awsome
Thank you for educating me on .243 win. , I had herd it`s a mild shooter for your shoulder . Very versatile I believe it is .
Great video and topic. I grew up with a 270 but a lot after guys around me had 243's. My first varmint rifle back in the late 70's was a 220 Swift, which I still favor 40+ years later. However, 6 months ago I bought a Tikka T3x Superlite in 243 Win to bridge the gap between my 220 Swift and 7mm RUM. I worked up a load using the Barnes 80gr TTSX and I can't wait to use it for mulies, whitetail and pronghorn. Will be a nice coyote gun on windy days here as well.
Don't know why it took me 40+ years to add o e to the stable!
Keep an eye out for the 6mm ARC, it's basically a very efficient 243 for the AR-15 that may take off in the near future.
I love your knowledge and history! I play with what are oddball or obscure calibers nowadays. Love the 22 hornet for a lot of things. But for this video I will go a little more main stream and say give me a 25-06 and 7-30 waters any day over the 243 and 6mms for light duty.
Actually Ron, there was a made in USA six millimeter cartridge long before 1955. It was the 6mm Lee Navy, developed in the 1890's. This was a straight pull rifle adopted by the U.S. Navy. Winchester then produced a commercial version Rifle which did not really catch on with the shooting public. The 6mm Lee navy was ahead of it's time, probably suffering from the lack of slower burning powders. Interestingly, the 6 mm Lee Navy case was the "father" of the 220 Swift.
Right on Ralph. I addressed the Lee Navy later in this video than you must have watched. I'd have covered it sooner by the old brain forgot.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I'm sorry Ron. Somehow I missed your later discussion. I almost purchased a straight pull Lee Navy at a gun show this year. If one wants to shoot the old Lee Navy rifle they have to re-form the 220 swift cases back to the original configuration.
Ron, Thanks for talking up the 6mm Remington it is definitely a misunderstood cartridge. Got an Remington 722 - 244 in excellent condition . Used a 40X (6mm) for years on groundhogs. Let me tell you, 55 grain Ballistic Tips @ 4150 (verified by chronograph) fps does a number on them.
Amazing range of knowledge and information. Very impressive!
I read your article some time ago on 6 mm remmy and 243 win. Love them both .
I love my 6mm Remington. My father (long gone) knew his stuff and he got my 6mm in a 788 Remington in my hands back in the early 1980's. I love this sweetheart. AND he said he never saw a bit of difference in his .244 Remington and his 6mm Remington when it came to tight groups in ALL bullet weights. Yes he had both. Gun writers trashed the .244 for no reason and trashed a great .244 round. Both can be shot in either rifle.
Both of my sons started their hunting careers with H&R Youth Handi Rifles in .243 many years ago. I later upgraded them to the adult length stock. One still uses his as he has never missed and will not use any other rifle. The other "upgraded" to a 30-30 levergun because he loves lever action rifles. The .243 is a great deer cartridge, and an excellent varmint round.
Dad tried to talk me I tk one for my mood 7 featherweight on my 14th b day, I payed for it, but I just had to have a 308. A 180gr bullet would kick your butt In that thing. Big difference from the 150. Had a semi auto .270 that was a baby doll in comparison. Still love the model 7. Great for crawling through the thick brush. Is short and very light. Now im older I use an dks. Don't get long shots and they ru. Out of scope picture often. Made my $99 chicom sks my go to. Plenty accurate out to 109 meters.
If I want to work around the 6 MM availability problem, I'd just re-barrel to a faster twist. My present Savage Model 10 .243 has a 1:9.25 twist stock barrel, but I can go to 8 in a little heavier and 2 inch longer barrel with no wait except shipping. The rifle is already 9-10 pounds with a medium heavy barrel and the scope. Great from the bench...not so much carrying it around :) Fellow at the range had a Ruger #1 in 6 MM REM., so I always liked that cartridge. If I can find brass for what I like (old school), and re-barrel for twist, I wouldn't care so much. Kimber has a nice .257 Roberts option, but there's the factory ammo and brass problem.
Once again, great info. History and comparison. Thanks for all you put into these videos.
Thank you, B Wri.
Both are fantastic rounds!!! Loads of fun too.
Always amazed at your knowledge Mr. Spomer. I love the cartridge history stuff. I could listen to you all day.
Aw, thanks man.
I have a Roger No. 1 in 6mm Rem and it is a phenomenal platform and cartridge.
Right on the money. I’m a .243 guy and I have pre-64 M70 that I bequeathed to my oldest grandson. My dad bought it around 59 or 60 and gave it to me a few years later. It’s accounted for a lot of wt and mule deer and antelope, plus a bunch of varmints. BTW, I cut my teeth on Mr Page, Mr O’Conner and Mr Keith.
I got several .243s and a .243 wssm and all of them shoot extremely well with the right ammo. All of them are Browning bolt actions.
My grandfather shot a Remington 788 6mm rem. It was the first centerfire rifle I ever shot and ive seen a deer drop at around 400yds with it.
The 788 remington is one of the most accurate rifles remington ever made had one in 243 since I was 13 not the prettiest gun but shoots damn good
.243 with the right bullets works great on whitetails doesn't tear up meat like some of the bigger calibers. It got a reputation of a starter round for kids but now days with the right bullets it's just a great choice.
I had a BLR in 243. I was always standing when I shot it. Not too bad on the recoil, but it was loud and the shockwave coming out of that thing was a crack up. I traded it for a 12ga BSS just out of the box. Picked up a Model 94AE 30-30 with the large loop years later and I run a 308 for everything else. Don't miss that 243 a bit.
Great Video and very informative on the comparison.For the past few years the guys on the Hunting Shows on the Outdoor Channel have been using that 6.5 Creedmore.Wow that round anchors almost everyone shot on the Spot if placed properly.And I am sure many are for advertising but it really works.If that is about what I can expect from a 243 that is very similar should be awesome to deer hunt with.I have used about everything except that and might have to give it a try.Thanks again.
Thanks you so much for the history lesson
Ron...you did a GREAT Job On this one! I had a Page Super Pooper...I love the 6mm Rem!
Thanks David.
Wonderful video Ron! Thank you!
You're welcome, Vince.
Ive really enjoyed shooting and handloading for my Remington Model 770 in 243 Winchester. Ive spent hours at the range with it over the last 15 years, in fact there’s some 85 Gr Sierra’s BTHP on my loading bench even as iam typing this. But if I can get my hands on 6MM Remington i sure wouldn’t pass it up, the 243, 6MM Remington and me we all came out the factory in 1955 . (Wink)
Another factor that probably played into Remington's reluctance to offer heavier bullets is the .244's limitation on the height you can seat a bullet in its case before running into OAL issues.
I have a Win .243 Savage youth model and a Weatherby Vanguard. I use 90 gr NAB's in the Savage and either 95gr NBT's or 100 NP's in the Vanguard (my favorite deer rifle now). All the deer killed with either one so far were bang/flops out to 300 yards (longest shot).
I go to the LRSU One Mile Challenge with my .243 Winchester. My rifle is a Marlin stainless with a Vortex Viper PST II. Also have a Ruger in 7mm Magnum ❤️❤️🦋💋
That’s cool. Do you use factory or hand loads for those?
I just went from a 7mm rem mag to 243 rem and it has the same capability (on fallow) but a lot less kick, thanks for the great video keep up the good work
Welcome
My dad purchased a Remington .244 which later turned into 6mm. And he loved it hunted deer no problem with it.
Love your videos keep them coming!! Whenever I go buy a new gun I always go to your videos, definitely helps on choosing a good rifle!!
You are the best. My Dad has been telling me for 30+ years the 6mm Is better then the .243. In the 80s they use to to shoot 5 shot group’s smallest group wins the pot. So they were building gun’s.
I used to use the old 243 for deer with 100gr federal shells and i hated it. I would loose deer because it didnt have enough punch or expansion. Then instarted relaoding and started using berger bullets... and i can tell you right now they shoot soo flat and if you smack a deer its lights out. My wife shot her first muley buck with my 243 with burger bullets at 490 yards and droped him. Most important thing about all cals is the bullet
There are far better factory loads available than the Federal SP. Nosler 95 grain BT or the Partition are both deer slayers. Federal fusion or the Barnes and Sierra's are all great too. Only soft points I've tried was Hornady Interlock 100 grains and they dropped the deer and passed through
The older I get the more I love my Tikka 243. I handload 85gr bullets to 3300fps and with good premium bullets I wouldn’t hesitate to take a 400yd shot at a whitetail. The light recoil is such a joy to shoot. It’s my “make sure it’s with me” whenever I go to hunt most anything. It’s never failed me.
Another great video Ron. Lot’s of fun to watch and I always make sure I have time blocked out to watch it.
This video sort of reminds me of yet another example of how lousy twist rates can become the death or degradation of perfectly good chamberings by a companies mistake.
I have a Winchester Model 70 Classic Featherweight chambered in .243 win. I bought it new and have taken more deer with it than I can remember. (Lost a few too but we won't talk about that)
Thank you Ron , love your videos and information. I have learnt a lot
Very welcome
Thanks Ron! The cartridge history lesson is always interesting and informative. Really enjoy shooting the faster twist 6mm Creedmoor. Working up hunting loads for it but not finding bullet weights over 103 grains. Hopefully there will soon be some innovation on heavier hunting bullets for the Creed.
The bullets are out there, maybe not the factory loads using them yet. But Hornady should have them up to 108-grains.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors yes 108 ELD Match. Used them to break in my rifle. Don’t believe they are recommended for hunting.
Great video!
Thanks for another real cool video Ron. I just recently picked up a .243 Win rifle, how frustrating it is that I cant even find one box of ammo to sight it in with for under $50 online. I’m not going to pay such a ridiculous price, yes maybe $25 a box if I can ever find a box at local sporting goods. I would consider getting into reloading, but then can’t locate primers! Very frustrating to say the least to have a new gun you can’t even shoot targets with! 🥲
Keep up the great work on your channel my friend.
Thanks Mike. Sorry about those ammo issues. Good lesson for everyone to keep on hand a reasonable supply and or stock up on reloading supplies.
I'm loving my 243 Stevens model 200 with a rifle basix trigger , it's shoots fantastic with 100 grain of any brand it's 9.25 twist .
I have both the 308 and the 243, and in all honestly I prefer the 243 for accuracy over 200 yards. I shot a medium sized buck I would guess to be 200 or more yard and it liquified the heart. it was jelly.
no recoil
You are one of my favorite writers. I miss Jim Carmichael and Grits Gresham. This information you give us on the 6mm reminds me of the .280 Rem. cartridge I love, but it is hard to find ammo for it. My dad would handload for my rifle and his loads when I did my part, 5 shot groups that make one hole. Sadly, I don't have the rifle or my dad anymore .
Thanks Ben. Sorry about your dad. We all miss our dads.
That was a great comparison of two cartridges when the better performing one lost over a lesser one. Remington has been the last to the dinner bell more times than just this one. Although they likely sold as many or a lot more rifles than Winchester did. Remington Core-Lokt bullets made Remington ammunition real popular. Model 70 actions cost more to make; and the 700 action cost less; they won that battle. But, the model 70 action is a better rifle action in many people’s opinions. I wonder what the future holds for both Remington and Winchester. It will be a sad day when these two names disappear like so many others have.
I think im going to do a 6mm Rem build 1 and 7" twist.. I got an old Husqvarna Commercial FN style Mauser I bought cheap.. Time to put it in the 21st century. This ought to be a fun project.
I have a custom build with a 1:7.7 and handles 115 dtac just fine
Great video. I'm a 6mm fan. Actually I have a .257 Roberts
Thanks. You keep enjoying that Roberts. And when you don't anymore, send it to me.
6mm Remington is a awesome
Cartridge if you are running anything over 90 grainers you really need it in a long action with a little bit of throat in a 700 short you run out of magazine room real quick . Putting it in a long action lets you get the powder capacity while allowing you to get the high bc bullets past the donuts on the case.
The 244/6mm a good choice for hand loaders, one in 8 twist best for available bullets today.
I have several .243's that the kids use. They've taken numerous deer and never had one run off. These days the boys tend to use a 7mm-08 or 30-06 for hunting. I've only had one instance where the .243 worked, but barely. I shot a 250lb boar while hunting in South Texas. I hit it right on the spine above the shoulders at 100yds using a 90gr Speer Hot-Cor. The bullet penetrated the hide and blew up under the skin. It never even went through the fat. However, the nervous system shock knocked him down. Luckily, my knife finished him before he woke up, but I was really surprised when I cleaned him. Granted, a Barnes or Nosler Partition probably would have been a different situation. But, it was an eye opener.
Picked .243 as my deer rifle when I was a kid, even though one of my favorite gun writers, John Wooters was pretty much dead set against it as a deer cartridge.
Iv taken a pile of deer with my 243 i don't care what anyone says about a 243 if you know how to shoot ull fill your freezer every year
Great tutorial Ron.
I have a old M70 and I’ve loaded the 90gr HP, 100gr SP, 100 and 120 Barnes X all the way up to 160 Nosler Partition
I like it big and with the light bullets recoil its recoil is just slightly more
Used to have a left handed Remington 788 in 6mm Remington. Loved that rifle. I traded it for a Dan Wesson .357 mag. I was young and stupid.
Love these cartridge videos. Could you do something on the 350 legend?
6x57 was a experimental German cartridge also with the new Schlegelmilch rifle in the competion to what would be new service rifle in 1896. Mauser won, Schlegelkilch rifles was given to Kaiser and his friends. The 20ish rifles was well liked for hunting. Kaiser liked the 6mm with 115 grain ammo good, also for red deer size game too it was used for.
Interesting stuff!
Excellent presentation
Good solid info again!
Greets, T.
The 240 wby you can re bbl any long action rifle in 270, 30-06 ect to 240 wby. The bolt face is the exact same size, 240 wby is a 30-06 case with a belt. Good option for hand loading.
My dad has a Remington Model 788 in 6mm Remington. Has taken many deer. Only downside is ammo can be hard to find.
Good friend of mine bought a 6 mm back in late 70's early 80's, told me about it but I was 30-06 blind lol