The best 24 minutes I spent on this subject well done and thank you mate! Esp at 12:41pm kept me from going to bed. I always wondered how a guy in 4WD action broke his cv by engaging the locker now I know....
20:00 regarding electronic traction control. Look at the Jeep sport vs Rubicon. the sport has pretty good traction control but cant compare to lockers. Read the best description somewhere years ago. Something needs to slip for the traction control to work, that slip could be just enough for you to get stuck
If you have open differentials, you can engage the "poor man's traction control" by activating/releasing the emergency (parking) brake over and over again until the power transfers from the no traction wheels to the high traction wheels. 0 - 5 - 0 mph wheel speed is key.
Not efficient enough. Will work off equipped with a plated LSD with pressure rings, but an other diff, out won't work. It'd work if you slow down the wheel that's spinning.
@@FuvNtsimKhaab of course it's not efficient. It's the poor man's limited slip or traction control (depends on how you look at it). The idea behind quickly engaging and disengaging the e-brake is to "trick" the open differential into transfering power from the wheel spinning freely to the wheel with traction. Start by applying just a little power (0 to 5 mph) and then finesse the e-brake (on-off-on-off) until you feel the vehicle grab traction. If you have an LSD installed, there shouldn't be any need to work the e-brake. After all, the "L" and the "S" in LSD stand for limited slip (respectively). If your LSD isn't transfering power under low traction situations, you might have a problem in the differential.
@@cliffcampbell8827 the thing is, when you apply the e-brake, it also applies brake to the wheel that isn't spinning. You cannot spin up the wheel that has traction if you are holding it from spinning. This is why brake assist traction control systems work because they apply brake to individual wheels. Typical clutch type LSD needs the tires to be on the ground to work. The pressure rings need a force to act upon. If it is set up with strong cone springs it'll grab. Too many times where guys use too much throttle and the sudden grab of the clutch/plated LSD breaks axles. Using the e-brake to initiate an opposing force for the pinion cross pin to ride up the ramps of the pressure rings allow the clutches to grab in situations where a tire is off the ground.
@@cliffcampbell8827 here's a demo I did a long time. The car has a 2way clutch LSD in the rear. The first climb with no use of e-brake. The 2nd climb with 80% e-brake engaged, the 3rd climb with around 40% e-brake engaged. It is also equipped with the DCCD(driver controlled center differential) 6spd with has an electromagnetic locking planetary center diff. ua-cam.com/video/S1UD6jSV0ww/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/S1UD6jSV0ww/v-deo.html
Eaton E locker and TJM Pro locker and Detrior Truetrac and Lock-Right Powertrax are the 4 best diff systems. Depending on which style you like. Selectable or Or Automatic or LSD.
Can you go out 2wding and show us how much a rear locker would help a 2wd vehicle? I'm sure you could turn the idea Into a interesting and funny video as always love your videos!
Such a great explanation of how lockers work. I have had a few different lockers over the years. A couple of Air-lockers and a couple of detroit EZ lockers. I kind of knew how they worked, but you have explained them so much clearer. I loved all the locker options. They all have there benefits, depending on the vehicles use. One Life, One Search, Peace Out, Shane
3:00 yes it is 4wd, even without lockers, all wheels are recieving some torque . The wheels turning slower or even stopped get the exact same amount of torque as the other wheel on that axle. So both wheels of an axle get the torque possible by the grip of the wheel which has least, if one wheel is in the air the other gets some bearings drag which ain't gonna help you Using lockers on descents is good. Cool you said that
I have a problem with ARB lockers. The twin washers inside the air line ring (seal housing) mounted onto the axle spline gear (bearing journal) is so low quality. They begin to leak after a year and start to pump your diff oil out to the air pump and now you have an oil leak from your air pump. And when the leak increases with more wear, your lockers stop locking. You have to dismantle the whole diff to change those washers. And guess what, those also wear and here we go again. They are constantly subjected to friction when the axles are moving. This is a big big design weakness. I prefer electrically operated lockers now.
Sam, you didn't mention maintenance servicing, warranty and spare parts, or lack there of from some brands. I got mine after discussion with transmission firm who just do drive line mechanics, and nothing else for a living. I suggest if your serious about buying lockers go talk to a drive line specialist and see what they have to recommend for your need. Agree on the strength and simplicity of the e-locker. For my simple 4wd I am e-happy. PS, I am not sure some of the troll gallery actually watched your demo driving? That was a ing tough incline wasn't it or did you just tilt the camera over? Seriously though, nice to see someone who knows how to use the gear properly do it right.
Most 'drive-line specialists' do not understand 4x4 applications - unless they wheel themselves. Even then, they do not see all of the different lockers out there on the market, so they will favour one brand and push it.
All you needed to say was - the locking ring connects one side gear to the case. The explanation about how that happens is only confusing to people. Technically you have four wheel drive, until one front and one wheel loses grip. You still have drive to all wheels even when the differential is operating - until the traction limit of the tyre is exceeded. And no mention of automatic versions, ie Lokka, where front locking is achieved without effecting steering. Very little comment on the big down side of front verses rear - steering influence. The other down side to front lock,is the lighter structural components used in front axles, eg smaller diameter axles, constant velocity joints and vulnerable alloy free-wheel-hubs, that are all placed under over-load when reversing up a grade with front locked, where suddenly these components are expected to do 80 percent of the drive load when they are only designed to do 40 percent. Need to be aware so you can adjust your right boot input in those situations. Apart from those little brain farts, a good presentation.
Put twin E Lockers in my 80series just before xmas last year. Now have just gotten back from 5 weeks in cape york. Let's just say I walked through all the crossings on both the OTT and Frenchman's Tracks towing a camper.
I dont like the way the E lockers shatter cross shafts in land cruiser rear diffs. Going from the factory size cross shaft of 22mm and reducing them to only 16mm has me confused. The whole E locker center for the rear diff looks like a diff made for a small 4wd that has a big flange fitted to take the large gears. I would stay away from the E locker if your car is heavy , powerful and has big tyres.
whats your take on your eaton with the roll back and disengage? or have you ever had the diff 'locked' but in reality the locker didn't lock up? what do you think would cause this? whats the best way to operate the locker in. a way to guarantee engagement
Live in the mid west with rigged winters. I'm trying to decide between E locker or air locker? I plan to add air ride to the truck at some point. Do air lockers ice up in extreme cold?
I wanted the locker in the front axle but as its not a good idea to lock the steerers i swapped the back axle with the front so it steers from the back and goes everywhere backwards. Problem solved! Hit me up for any advice if you'd like to do it yourself
Ben Hurst I’m no expert don’t get me wrong but the snorkels basically do the same, the only thing with snorkels is which direction you would want it facing (snorkel head facing towards the rear to prevent dust from getting into your intake, or facing forward like traditional snorkels, depends how much dusty driving you do) also safari snorkels or other plastic snorkels can become brittle after years of being in rain, hail and shine, where as stainless snorkels won’t have that issue obviously. I’m pretty sure you would need an air box as the air box houses the air filter before the intake enters the engine. And you should always be running an air filter in case any dust does enter your snorkel or air inlet and it will filter out majority of that dust. Like I said, I’m no pro so I could be completely wrong, that’s just my understanding of it all
First of all, Safari is a brand and stainless is a construction type. Generally speaking people make the choice between the steel and plastic styles based on aesthetic and cost. Some argue that the air ram head on a plastic snorkel has a filtering effect against water and dust because of the drainage holes, however this minimal benefit is countered by the next benefit. The second and more enticing benefit to a air ram snorkel (used on plastic snorkels) is that they push air into your car as you drive into the wind. Unfortunately this does not hold up from a physics point of view, the car already sucks maximum air in and the forward velocity of the car is far too slow to compress air into the intake. All air compression benefits of a snorkel come because they are essentially pulling in cooler air (air temps are significantly lower further from the ground). Cooler air is more compressed. Steel snorkels face backwards, which can slightly reduce dust and water ingress. By facing backward the snorkel is much louder, some people like this and others do not. There are a lot of local fabricators that can make steel snorkels which create a healthy and competitive price point. If you do opt for a plastic snorkel, bare in mind that there are only a few producers in the country. Expensive brands like safari come from the same factories and batches as the cheaper ones except for safari's high grade option. Having a snorkel has nothing to do with your airbox, you can change it if you want but that's your choice. Deleting your airbox is not a 'thing', people change the filters for 'high flow' KN or pod filters but not a straight pipe.
Thank God someone else understands that most 4x4 are actually 4x2. You don't have 4wd unless you have locking axles or traction control as late models can have. Good plain speaking explanation. Self locking or LSD are simplest and controlled lockers are just gold. Good vid guys.
Nope, open diffs are 50/50 meaning both wheels get the same torque all the time. Meaning all 4 wheels are delivered torque not 2. AWD with open center diff is 25/25/25/25 distribution. This is why you can drive on the beach in 4wd and not spin yet in 2wd locked just sink. . Now lifting a wheel means it cannot generate any torque, so the opposite wheel gets that amount which means you are not delivering any torque at that axle. Lockers bias torque so regardless of what the other wheel can generate the axle will maximize torque to the ground. . Still, calling a 4wd system 2wd is incorrect.
@@dartmoordave no I’m not, torque requires resistance. You cannot input 100 lbs ft of torque into a dry wall screw because neither the dry wall nor the screw can hold it. So actually you are confusing torque with RPM. it’s easy to prove, set a torque wrench to anything and start using it on air, you’ll never feel nor see it indicate any torque level. Same thing with your tires.
Hello Sam. I'm a follower from Mexico. I will like to ask you to do a single video on: Front auto lockers (like lokka). Specifically on applications like the latest Hilux N80. I want to know more about noise when in 2wd. And the necessity or not of using Manual Hubs or if the standard axle disconnect it is enough. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
On the lsd to locker oil comment Sam if your running a Arb or Tjm locker or even a 4wd systems auto locker they recommend ls90 lsd oils for there difflocks. great vid cheers mate,
I'm a LandCruiser guy. I would still get a locker in the back first. The LSD on the Toyota is not great. The lsd I'm the patrol is much better. I would get locker in the front on the patrol and rear on LandCruiser.
the front pulls you thru,,the rear bogs down,,front locker first.unless you have a bad lsd rear,,then 2 lockers,toyota are only made to roll out the factory,the lsd is a joke. take the centre out & tighten the bolts a bit,,it works..toyota lsd is a sales gimmick,, the centre diff lock,works well though..
Man thanks for this Video and info I am looking at getting a Isuzu MUX and that thing has a Lsd in the rear so I ll just get the front Locker when I get it. Cheers mate
@@JeremyPetho there's only a very small difference between a Torsen LSD and a full Locker. And that's only if you put a wheel in the air. And if you compare daily drivers and selectable lockers I actually have a lot more traction more of the time. only give up very little off road.
That's like saying there is only a very small difference between an AWD and a 4WD and that's only when you drive it off road. Wheel in the air is the time you need the locker the most.
Thank you. I have a 2017 Tacoma 4x4 off-road. It has the factory rear elocker and crawl control. How does installing the front Eaton elocker work with / effect crawl control? Anyone?? Thx.
in lockers does the "spline" matter, i noticed they have 34 and 37 "spline?", looking at getting a front Elocker for my nissan patrol as it has an LSD rear. Cheers
should i get a front or a rear for my brumby, i swapped it for an ej engine and modified that a fair bit, also have a 3 inch lift but the thing is when it’s not in 4wd it’s fwd not rwd, can anyone help ?
Hello, great video! Watching from California, USA. Working on my first 4wd build, 1979 International Harvester Scout ii, 345 engine, automatic, 4wd. Dana 44 front and back, 3.54 gears. Currently have 31 tires, looking at 33 if I do a tire upgrade. Looking at important upgrades versus fixing the looks of my Frankenstein. Recommendations for lockers? Gear? I'm not looking at extreme rock/snow/mud, just want to keep up with most trails. Won't be driving daily too much. Thanks in advance mate!
I know I’m kind a late to the game but I just discovered you recently. I don’t think I could afford two lockers so would you suggest a rear locker with a LSD in the front? Or just the rear? I don’t have a LSD in the rear
I have a 2001 100 series Land Cruiser equipped with a Center Diff Lock. I'm looking at getting an e-locker and I'm thinking to put it in the rear. What would you recommend?
front,,the front pulls you thru/up. the rear does nothing. go find a decent mechanic,& check the tension on the lsd, you can tighten them,but will shorten life,maybe thats why there crap..the later ones,like yours could be better than the early ones,totally useless..go take 5k out the bank,& get both..it seems some unlock on there own..id possibly go for a detroit rear,lunchbox front. no cables wires to break..go to u.s ebay,toyota 100 lockers..easy install your self..id even get detroit front & rear,the front should unlock when turning..they dont have a problem in u.s.
With the rear locker it is no problem, the tyres will just drag a bit across the ground. With the front locker it will make it harder to steer but you can still do it if you have power steering.
I want to understand your explanation of 4X4 actually 2 wheel drive. I have anti-slip diffs (recently fully serviced) in a Ford PU. Will the anti-slip diffs act like lockers or not. Thanks, Len
Hi Len, you may have found out this info in the meantime but just in case. We'll start with a standard RWD sedan with an open centre diff to keep it simple. As we know their referred to as 2WD. But if we jack up one wheel of the ground and try to drive forward it wont go anywhere since all the drive force is following the path of least resistance. So technically the car is only referred to as one wheel drive. On a normal 4wd if you pick up one front and one rear wheel the same thing happens, your not moving anywhere Fulltime 4wd like the Perentie in my avatar, if the centre diff lock (3rd diff inside gearbox) is not locked and I pick up only one wheel I dont move anywhere due to all the driving force again following the path of least resistance. Now another term for your anti-slip diffs is "limited slip" they try to keep both wheels turning when one is lifted or losses traction but ultimately cant. Their still "trying" to provide drive force to the wheel with the traction even though it may not be turning, So eg in simple terms, if you have enough momentum in a tough section that little extra drive force to the wheel with traction may be enough to pull you though where as the open centre vehicle would stop the locker like in the Video is literally a physical system forcing each wheel is spinning the exact same speed regardless of traction, so if one is in the air and one on the ground it can still move forward.
@@phatdongracing419 even set up properly, they're still annoyingly loud in a daily driver 4x4, fine in a pure off road rig, this is only my opinion tho, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one 🤣
a locker in the back is actually a better idea if you dont have money for both front and rear because when you accelerate, the weight of the car is transfered from the front to the back which means that you get more traction to the rear wheels
wrong..do you go off road,maybe not..its the front diff that pulls you thru,not the rear. going up a dirt/rock mound,3-4 ft, the front diff will have traction,while the rear has 2 ton on it. spinning..
🤔Installing Air Lockers... Would That Disable The 4WD Auto Functions?🤔 The Diff goes from LOCKED to OPEN Correct?.. Opposed To LOCKED To Limited Slip 4WD Auto?🤔
Lunchbox lockers are cheap, reliable and give as much traction off-road as any other locker. The downsides are that they are not as strong as some lockers that replace the entire carrier (this is not a problem with most 4WDs because the axle shafts will break before the locker anyway), and they don't operate as smoothly as selectable lockers. In the front they can cause understeer and heavy steering, also they can only be used with power steering. In the rear they can make noise when driving on the road and cause oversteer and excessive tyre wear if driven too fast around corners.
@@JeremyPetho bs..lunch box are same as any locker in the front,they disconnect under turning,unless you fit them wrong. if it doesnt clik on bitumen,,its installed wrong..where do you get your info.aus.??..it tells you in the spill when you buy them,what size tire is max..if you want bigger than 35",get a detroit or something else..you need to watch more u.s vids.not this baby stuff..
@@phantomwalker8251 What part exactly are you trying to say is BS? Lunchbox lockers are not like any other locker in the front since most are turned on and off with a switch. A lunchbox locker disconnects when turning but torque from the engine works to hold it locked. So with a lunchbox or other auto locker in the front under acceleration, it can understeer when on a slippery surface. It also can make it very difficult to steer if you don't have power steering. Yes you are correct, they do click when on bitumen. How noticeable this is depends on the vehicle. Like I said, they are not as strong as a carrier replacement locker (like a Detroit). This stuff works all the same regardless of which country you are in.
modern rubbish,too much to fail,be them air or elec. u.s auto lockers work like a ratchet,one way,forward,just to get you thru,but they also have locking hubs,mine are air auto with locking hubs. manual is best.. something shts out bush,you go no where..as mine did. 2wd only..
So I had a Jeep in 4H with no lockers. I got off the trail and I did a u-turn on pavement. With the steering wheel turned all the way to the left I felt the drivetrain bind up and the wheels start to slip and hop. Why did that happen since the Jeep didn’t have lockers?
Because you did a u turn on pavement in 4h. 4h can be utilised on the road for extra traction/control in hazardous conditions. Turning as sam said wheels rotating differently as and causes that slipping binding to happen. On the road unless 100% necessary put it back to h2
@@mattkearney11 My U-turn was to get back on the trail off pavement and with traffic coming I didn’t think to take it off 4H. Anyway, I figured out the physics. Since the transfer case is locked, the front and rear drive shafts spin at the same RPM. Which means the combined RPM of the front wheels = the combined RPM of the rear wheels. But the rear wheels cut the corner and travel less distance when turning. Since the front wheels have to travel further than they are spinning when turning, the rear wheels push and caused the front wheels to skip and hop forward to catch up. This isn’t an issue in dirt where the front wheels would slide a little forward or the rear wheels would slip a little. Do I have that right?
Full time 4WDs have a centre diff and part time 4WDs do not. A full time 4WD will always drive both axles but lets them rotate at different speeds when the centre diff is unlocked. A part time 4WD normally only drives the rear axle but locks the front in when 4WD is selected. So locking the centre diff does the same thing as selecting 4WD.
Hi Sam, really good video.. I got extremely motivated to install a rear difflock on my patrol bagon 3.0L. Do you guys can do the job, if not do you know anyone who could do it in Perth. Thanks and drive safe
A locker can help prevent you breaking your CVs but only if you use it right. Don't use it more than needed and use both front and rear together if you are lifting wheels or really need the extra traction.
Hey interesting video and very informative! I'm located in Texas a recently bought my wife a Subaru ascent...saw they offer a 2" lift but my thing is could I install front and rear lockers in it? Haven't seen any kits for it and wondering if it is possible?
It is an ongoing debate but in most cases I would choose rear first. In almost all 4WD vehicles the rear axle is stronger than the front, so but putting a locker in the back you are giving the stronger axle more traction and making it do most of the work. The rear locker can also be used a lot more because it doesn't affect steering and doesn't put strain on the front axle. On the other side of the argument, many 4WDs come standard with a rear LSD so by fitting a locker to the front you will now have a traction aid in both axles. Also, it is more likely to lift a front wheel than a rear wheel so a front locker will help out here.
I have a 2020 Jeep Gladiator with max tow package that gives me Dana 44 wide axles, however it came with a conventional differential. Why the hell would Jeep put a conventional diff in a 4x4 is beyond me. You can only get the lockers on the Rubicon models. as an option you can get Anti-Spin differential for 595 dollar upgrade. an anti spin differential should be standard on a damn JEEP 4x4. Anyway, what can I do to upgrade to locking system to go offroading. Is my only option to install a differential locker, or is there a cheaper option to get the same effect? If installing a differential locker is my only option, do I do both front and rear?
Most 4x4s don't come with lockers standard because they are only set up for light off-roading in standard form. Your Jeep would have off-road traction control which is not as effective as lockers but it does help a lot and is enough for most people. If you really need the extra traction of lockers, then they are worth the money. Lunchbox lockers (like Spartan, Lokka, Aussie, etc.) are very cheap but can be rough and noisy in operation.
@@JeremyPetho only if you have the front hubs in 4x4ing,so does that matter,?.NO. the rear,id detroit.or e locker. only gave the guy half an answer,again...
I have a factory locker in my N80, never had a problem with it (apart from it only being able to engage in low range) is there any advantage in fitting an aftermarket locker?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The best 24 minutes I spent on this subject well done and thank you mate! Esp at 12:41pm kept me from going to bed. I always wondered how a guy in 4WD action broke his cv by engaging the locker now I know....
Same
20:00 regarding electronic traction control. Look at the Jeep sport vs Rubicon. the sport has pretty good traction control but cant compare to lockers.
Read the best description somewhere years ago. Something needs to slip for the traction control to work, that slip could be just enough for you to get stuck
If you have open differentials, you can engage the "poor man's traction control" by activating/releasing the emergency (parking) brake over and over again until the power transfers from the no traction wheels to the high traction wheels. 0 - 5 - 0 mph wheel speed is key.
Not efficient enough. Will work off equipped with a plated LSD with pressure rings, but an other diff, out won't work. It'd work if you slow down the wheel that's spinning.
@@FuvNtsimKhaab of course it's not efficient. It's the poor man's limited slip or traction control (depends on how you look at it). The idea behind quickly engaging and disengaging the e-brake is to "trick" the open differential into transfering power from the wheel spinning freely to the wheel with traction. Start by applying just a little power (0 to 5 mph) and then finesse the e-brake (on-off-on-off) until you feel the vehicle grab traction. If you have an LSD installed, there shouldn't be any need to work the e-brake. After all, the "L" and the "S" in LSD stand for limited slip (respectively). If your LSD isn't transfering power under low traction situations, you might have a problem in the differential.
@@cliffcampbell8827 the thing is, when you apply the e-brake, it also applies brake to the wheel that isn't spinning. You cannot spin up the wheel that has traction if you are holding it from spinning. This is why brake assist traction control systems work because they apply brake to individual wheels.
Typical clutch type LSD needs the tires to be on the ground to work. The pressure rings need a force to act upon. If it is set up with strong cone springs it'll grab. Too many times where guys use too much throttle and the sudden grab of the clutch/plated LSD breaks axles. Using the e-brake to initiate an opposing force for the pinion cross pin to ride up the ramps of the pressure rings allow the clutches to grab in situations where a tire is off the ground.
@@cliffcampbell8827 here's a demo I did a long time. The car has a 2way clutch LSD in the rear. The first climb with no use of e-brake. The 2nd climb with 80% e-brake engaged, the 3rd climb with around 40% e-brake engaged. It is also equipped with the DCCD(driver controlled center differential) 6spd with has an electromagnetic locking planetary center diff.
ua-cam.com/video/S1UD6jSV0ww/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/S1UD6jSV0ww/v-deo.html
@@FuvNtsimKhaab how did you get the passenger rear off the ground like that?
Eaton E locker and TJM Pro locker and Detrior Truetrac and Lock-Right Powertrax are the 4 best diff systems. Depending on which style you like. Selectable or Or Automatic or LSD.
Can you go out 2wding and show us how much a rear locker would help a 2wd vehicle? I'm sure you could turn the idea Into a interesting and funny video as always love your videos!
Ide just weld the diff in a 2wd bump spending the money on a locker
Fun fact: the e locker will disengage when you roll back on a hill and won’t re-engage for almost one whole tire rotation.
Yeah true but a full tyre rotation before re-engagement is a bit of am exaggeration. Half turn at max.
Only on these EATON ramp units and it’s a made up problem.
usually there’s enough bind in the diff that they stay locked
20:10 Traction control takes time to decide which wheel is spinning, I much prefer lockers!
Such a great explanation of how lockers work. I have had a few different lockers over the years. A couple of Air-lockers and a couple of detroit EZ lockers. I kind of knew how they worked, but you have explained them so much clearer.
I loved all the locker options. They all have there benefits, depending on the vehicles use.
One Life, One Search,
Peace Out,
Shane
I know this video is about lockers, but that articulation is the truth!
Open diffs are four wheel drive until you need it.
3:00 yes it is 4wd, even without lockers, all wheels are recieving some torque . The wheels turning slower or even stopped get the exact same amount of torque as the other wheel on that axle.
So both wheels of an axle get the torque possible by the grip of the wheel which has least, if one wheel is in the air the other gets some bearings drag which ain't gonna help you
Using lockers on descents is good. Cool you said that
That interruption …… guy had me roaring 🤣
I have a problem with ARB lockers. The twin washers inside the air line ring (seal housing) mounted onto the axle spline gear (bearing journal) is so low quality. They begin to leak after a year and start to pump your diff oil out to the air pump and now you have an oil leak from your air pump. And when the leak increases with more wear, your lockers stop locking. You have to dismantle the whole diff to change those washers. And guess what, those also wear and here we go again. They are constantly subjected to friction when the axles are moving. This is a big big design weakness. I prefer electrically operated lockers now.
Sam, you didn't mention maintenance servicing, warranty and spare parts, or lack there of from some brands. I got mine after discussion with transmission firm who just do drive line mechanics, and nothing else for a living. I suggest if your serious about buying lockers go talk to a drive line specialist and see what they have to recommend for your need. Agree on the strength and simplicity of the e-locker. For my simple 4wd I am e-happy. PS, I am not sure some of the troll gallery actually watched your demo driving? That was a ing tough incline wasn't it or did you just tilt the camera over? Seriously though, nice to see someone who knows how to use the gear properly do it right.
Most 'drive-line specialists' do not understand 4x4 applications - unless they wheel themselves. Even then, they do not see all of the different lockers out there on the market, so they will favour one brand and push it.
All you needed to say was - the locking ring connects one side gear to the case. The explanation about how that happens is only confusing to people. Technically you have four wheel drive, until one front and one wheel loses grip. You still have drive to all wheels even when the differential is operating - until the traction limit of the tyre is exceeded. And no mention of automatic versions, ie Lokka, where front locking is achieved without effecting steering. Very little comment on the big down side of front verses rear - steering influence.
The other down side to front lock,is the lighter structural components used in front axles, eg smaller diameter axles, constant velocity joints and vulnerable alloy free-wheel-hubs, that are all placed under over-load when reversing up a grade with front locked, where suddenly these components are expected to do 80 percent of the drive load when they are only designed to do 40 percent. Need to be aware so you can adjust your right boot input in those situations. Apart from those little brain farts, a good presentation.
Are these better than the stock jeep trash lock?😊
Definitely the best video I've seen on this topic, loved it 👌👌👌👌
Very nice truck. That flex was pretty impressive.
Put twin E Lockers in my 80series just before xmas last year. Now have just gotten back from 5 weeks in cape york. Let's just say I walked through all the crossings on both the OTT and Frenchman's Tracks towing a camper.
Best upgrade I've done to the Cruiser ever!
Love the patrol. Y’all get some of the coolest trucks. I used to buy a lot of my fj40 parts from your country. Great video.
At least in Finland with snow driving e-lockers and lsd are pretty much useless if you are on the verge of getting stuck.
To clarify, third generation Tacomas come with a rear E-locker. It will not engage unless at a full stop in 4wd low in drive if automatic.
There is something about Funk music and Epic mustache, that makes me hit Subscribe, every time! :)
Good video mate. MAD RIG is twin E Locked and loves it. 👌🏻🤘🏻
I dont like the way the E lockers shatter cross shafts in land cruiser rear diffs. Going from the factory size cross shaft of 22mm and reducing them to only 16mm has me confused. The whole E locker center for the rear diff looks like a diff made for a small 4wd that has a big flange fitted to take the large gears. I would stay away from the E locker if your car is heavy , powerful and has big tyres.
whats your take on your eaton with the roll back and disengage? or have you ever had the diff 'locked' but in reality the locker didn't lock up? what do you think would cause this?
whats the best way to operate the locker in. a way to guarantee engagement
Nice video, very informative! By the way, the background music makes it harder to hear what you are saying.
Live in the mid west with rigged winters. I'm trying to decide between E locker or air locker? I plan to add air ride to the truck at some point. Do air lockers ice up in extreme cold?
I wanted the locker in the front axle but as its not a good idea to lock the steerers i swapped the back axle with the front so it steers from the back and goes everywhere backwards. Problem solved! Hit me up for any advice if you'd like to do it yourself
Hey Sam can you do a video on snorkels like stainless vs safari? Do you need an airbox ect? Cheers loving the videos 👌🏼
Ben Hurst I’m no expert don’t get me wrong but the snorkels basically do the same, the only thing with snorkels is which direction you would want it facing (snorkel head facing towards the rear to prevent dust from getting into your intake, or facing forward like traditional snorkels, depends how much dusty driving you do) also safari snorkels or other plastic snorkels can become brittle after years of being in rain, hail and shine, where as stainless snorkels won’t have that issue obviously.
I’m pretty sure you would need an air box as the air box houses the air filter before the intake enters the engine. And you should always be running an air filter in case any dust does enter your snorkel or air inlet and it will filter out majority of that dust.
Like I said, I’m no pro so I could be completely wrong, that’s just my understanding of it all
First of all, Safari is a brand and stainless is a construction type.
Generally speaking people make the choice between the steel and plastic styles based on aesthetic and cost.
Some argue that the air ram head on a plastic snorkel has a filtering effect against water and dust because of the drainage holes, however this minimal benefit is countered by the next benefit.
The second and more enticing benefit to a air ram snorkel (used on plastic snorkels) is that they push air into your car as you drive into the wind. Unfortunately this does not hold up from a physics point of view, the car already sucks maximum air in and the forward velocity of the car is far too slow to compress air into the intake.
All air compression benefits of a snorkel come because they are essentially pulling in cooler air (air temps are significantly lower further from the ground). Cooler air is more compressed.
Steel snorkels face backwards, which can slightly reduce dust and water ingress. By facing backward the snorkel is much louder, some people like this and others do not.
There are a lot of local fabricators that can make steel snorkels which create a healthy and competitive price point.
If you do opt for a plastic snorkel, bare in mind that there are only a few producers in the country. Expensive brands like safari come from the same factories and batches as the cheaper ones except for safari's high grade option.
Having a snorkel has nothing to do with your airbox, you can change it if you want but that's your choice. Deleting your airbox is not a 'thing', people change the filters for 'high flow' KN or pod filters but not a straight pipe.
Toyota guys should get a rear locker as their lsds suck. Nissans have tight rear lsds so can get away with just a front imo.
Spot on
Great upload been looking at lockers for a while great info about them
Good Stuff, Great Tips😃👍🏿
Thank God someone else understands that most 4x4 are actually 4x2. You don't have 4wd unless you have locking axles or traction control as late models can have. Good plain speaking explanation. Self locking or LSD are simplest and controlled lockers are just gold. Good vid guys.
Nope, open diffs are 50/50 meaning both wheels get the same torque all the time. Meaning all 4 wheels are delivered torque not 2. AWD with open center diff is 25/25/25/25 distribution. This is why you can drive on the beach in 4wd and not spin yet in 2wd locked just sink.
.
Now lifting a wheel means it cannot generate any torque, so the opposite wheel gets that amount which means you are not delivering any torque at that axle. Lockers bias torque so regardless of what the other wheel can generate the axle will maximize torque to the ground.
.
Still, calling a 4wd system 2wd is incorrect.
@@KTMcaptain You're confusing torque with grip.
@@dartmoordave no I’m not, torque requires resistance. You cannot input 100 lbs ft of torque into a dry wall screw because neither the dry wall nor the screw can hold it. So actually you are confusing torque with RPM. it’s easy to prove, set a torque wrench to anything and start using it on air, you’ll never feel nor see it indicate any torque level. Same thing with your tires.
Out in the field...good examples, that was well demonstrated.
If you keep the same gear ratio, can you swap in a locker without setting up the gears if everything else is the same?
Great vid Sam. And totally agree. Thanks.
I have a new badlands bronco with lockers front and rear.
0:05 with subtitles on 😂
Hello Sam. I'm a follower from Mexico. I will like to ask you to do a single video on: Front auto lockers (like lokka). Specifically on applications like the latest Hilux N80. I want to know more about noise when in 2wd. And the necessity or not of using Manual Hubs or if the standard axle disconnect it is enough. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
i think seano from 4wd action did one in a hilux.. should be to hard to find on youtube
On the lsd to locker oil comment Sam if your running a Arb or Tjm locker or even a 4wd systems auto locker they recommend ls90 lsd oils for there difflocks. great vid cheers mate,
what abut snow or mud? is it better an LSD then?
Would you use a rear locker on snowy hills? Or would the locker just kick the rear end out?
Great Review thank you for sharing 👍 👍🇺🇲
The Vermonter
I'm a LandCruiser guy. I would still get a locker in the back first. The LSD on the Toyota is not great. The lsd I'm the patrol is much better. I would get locker in the front on the patrol and rear on LandCruiser.
the front pulls you thru,,the rear bogs down,,front locker first.unless you have a bad lsd rear,,then 2 lockers,toyota are only made to roll out the factory,the lsd is a joke. take the centre out & tighten the bolts a bit,,it works..toyota lsd is a sales gimmick,, the centre diff lock,works well though..
Only bad part about a e locker is the price where I have found arb ones are the cheapest on the market compared to harrop elockers and tjm pro lockers
And the way they lock, weak. And if you roll back the unlock then relock as they run up and down the ramp.
Can be bad
detroit rear,lunchbox front..no leads,no probs..
Man thanks for this Video and info I am looking at getting a Isuzu MUX and that thing has a Lsd in the rear so I ll just get the front Locker when I get it. Cheers mate
Detroit locker front .
Torson lsd rear . no air no wires all ways works no brain function .still has tight turning .
Torsen is OK but doesn't give the same amount of traction as a locker.
@@JeremyPetho there's only a very small difference between a Torsen LSD and a full Locker. And that's only if you put a wheel in the air. And if you compare daily drivers and selectable lockers I actually have a lot more traction more of the time. only give up very little off road.
@@JeremyPetho I ran a Spartan Locker many years in the rear of a TJ the torsion is a lot more predictable and more streetable.
That's like saying there is only a very small difference between an AWD and a 4WD and that's only when you drive it off road.
Wheel in the air is the time you need the locker the most.
@@JeremyPetho lol no its not wrong I have had full lockers and torson lsd . Very little difference.
20 years of jeeps .
what about lokka and their auto locker? fansy on paper and in some vids but how would they stack against e and a lockers?
What about with a all wheel drive T-Case?
That is a very good explanation on how they work
Actually love your visual scribbles, #neurodiverse visual learner less acronyms and more to the point .. thankyou
Thank you. I have a 2017 Tacoma 4x4 off-road. It has the factory rear elocker and crawl control. How does installing the front Eaton elocker work with / effect crawl control? Anyone?? Thx.
in lockers does the "spline" matter, i noticed they have 34 and 37 "spline?", looking at getting a front Elocker for my nissan patrol as it has an LSD rear. Cheers
The spline is for your axle shafts. More splines, bigger diameter shafts.
Can u pls make a video about your headlights and how u installed them because I want to do the same thing for my car
should i get a front or a rear for my brumby, i swapped it for an ej engine and modified that a fair bit, also have a 3 inch lift but the thing is when it’s not in 4wd it’s fwd not rwd, can anyone help ?
When you put it into four-wheel drive and you don't lock in your hubs or riffs you are actually in all wheel drive
If you don't lock in your hubs how does the power get from your axles to your wheels?
NO. thats what the hubs are fopr,to lovk the wheels to the axles..read books,or watch better vids..
Hello, great video! Watching from California, USA. Working on my first 4wd build, 1979 International Harvester Scout ii, 345 engine, automatic, 4wd. Dana 44 front and back, 3.54 gears. Currently have 31 tires, looking at 33 if I do a tire upgrade. Looking at important upgrades versus fixing the looks of my Frankenstein. Recommendations for lockers? Gear? I'm not looking at extreme rock/snow/mud, just want to keep up with most trails. Won't be driving daily too much. Thanks in advance mate!
I'd love to see your build
Can you engage/disengage while moving 5mph or less? Or recommend engaging at a complete stop?
It's ok to engage/disengage when moving very slowly but it will only disengage when the load is taken off the driveline.
Nice vid mate I’m interested in buying a locker
I know I’m kind a late to the game but I just discovered you recently. I don’t think I could afford two lockers so would you suggest a rear locker with a LSD in the front? Or just the rear? I don’t have a LSD in the rear
I have a 2001 100 series Land Cruiser equipped with a Center Diff Lock. I'm looking at getting an e-locker and I'm thinking to put it in the rear. What would you recommend?
front,,the front pulls you thru/up. the rear does nothing. go find a decent mechanic,& check the tension on the lsd, you can tighten them,but will shorten life,maybe thats why there crap..the later ones,like yours could be better than the early ones,totally useless..go take 5k out the bank,& get both..it seems some unlock on there own..id possibly go for a detroit rear,lunchbox front. no cables wires to break..go to u.s ebay,toyota 100 lockers..easy install your self..id even get detroit front & rear,the front should unlock when turning..they dont have a problem in u.s.
would would hapen to the locker if its been enguage and you have to make a tight turn during offroad??
With the rear locker it is no problem, the tyres will just drag a bit across the ground.
With the front locker it will make it harder to steer but you can still do it if you have power steering.
I want to understand your explanation of 4X4 actually 2 wheel drive. I have anti-slip diffs (recently fully serviced) in a Ford PU. Will the anti-slip diffs act like lockers or not. Thanks, Len
Hi Len, you may have found out this info in the meantime but just in case.
We'll start with a standard RWD sedan with an open centre diff to keep it simple. As we know their referred to as 2WD.
But if we jack up one wheel of the ground and try to drive forward it wont go anywhere since all the drive force is following the path of least resistance. So technically the car is only referred to as one wheel drive.
On a normal 4wd if you pick up one front and one rear wheel the same thing happens, your not moving anywhere
Fulltime 4wd like the Perentie in my avatar, if the centre diff lock (3rd diff inside gearbox) is not locked and I pick up only one wheel I dont move anywhere due to all the driving force again following the path of least resistance.
Now another term for your anti-slip diffs is "limited slip" they try to keep both wheels turning when one is lifted or losses traction but ultimately cant. Their still "trying" to provide drive force to the wheel with the traction even though it may not be turning,
So eg in simple terms, if you have enough momentum in a tough section that little extra drive force to the wheel with traction may be enough to pull you though where as the open centre vehicle would stop
the locker like in the Video is literally a physical system forcing each wheel is spinning the exact same speed regardless of traction, so if one is in the air and one on the ground it can still move forward.
opinion on lunchbox lockers? for a front diff
chrispirola had them in 5 differnt cars in fault able would chose again An again in the most extreme conditions aswel
Depends if you can put up with the terrible noises they make, and the sometimes random locking and unlocking on bitumen
Set it up properly an no issue
@@phatdongracing419 even set up properly, they're still annoyingly loud in a daily driver 4x4, fine in a pure off road rig, this is only my opinion tho, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one 🤣
@@tassie4x499 and they stink
Great info & killer Rig! Much appreciated info! Cheers!!
What obout water does it affect air locker?
Good video, here's a thumbs up👍.
a locker in the back is actually a better idea if you dont have money for both front and rear because when you accelerate, the weight of the car is transfered from the front to the back which means that you get more traction to the rear wheels
wrong..do you go off road,maybe not..its the front diff that pulls you thru,not the rear. going up a dirt/rock mound,3-4 ft, the front diff will have traction,while the rear has 2 ton on it. spinning..
🤔Installing Air Lockers... Would That Disable The 4WD Auto Functions?🤔
The Diff goes from LOCKED to OPEN Correct?.. Opposed To LOCKED To Limited Slip 4WD Auto?🤔
Mint info mate! Should've done downhill open diff aswell to show the speed difference when engaged 👍
What do you think of lunchbox lockers like the Lokka or Powertrax Lock Right?
Lunchbox lockers are cheap, reliable and give as much traction off-road as any other locker.
The downsides are that they are not as strong as some lockers that replace the entire carrier (this is not a problem with most 4WDs because the axle shafts will break before the locker anyway), and they don't operate as smoothly as selectable lockers. In the front they can cause understeer and heavy steering, also they can only be used with power steering.
In the rear they can make noise when driving on the road and cause oversteer and excessive tyre wear if driven too fast around corners.
@@JeremyPetho bs..lunch box are same as any locker in the front,they disconnect under turning,unless you fit them wrong. if it doesnt clik on bitumen,,its installed wrong..where do you get your info.aus.??..it tells you in the spill when you buy them,what size tire is max..if you want bigger than 35",get a detroit or something else..you need to watch more u.s vids.not this baby stuff..
@@phantomwalker8251
What part exactly are you trying to say is BS?
Lunchbox lockers are not like any other locker in the front since most are turned on and off with a switch. A lunchbox locker disconnects when turning but torque from the engine works to hold it locked. So with a lunchbox or other auto locker in the front under acceleration, it can understeer when on a slippery surface. It also can make it very difficult to steer if you don't have power steering.
Yes you are correct, they do click when on bitumen. How noticeable this is depends on the vehicle.
Like I said, they are not as strong as a carrier replacement locker (like a Detroit).
This stuff works all the same regardless of which country you are in.
That beast sounds nice
what are your thoughts on auto lockers
modern rubbish,too much to fail,be them air or elec. u.s auto lockers work like a ratchet,one way,forward,just to get you thru,but they also have locking hubs,mine are air auto with locking hubs. manual is best.. something shts out bush,you go no where..as mine did. 2wd only..
What about front auto lockers? Whats Your opinion on them?
Do it all ways works . i run Detroit in my jeep and love it.
I need to open ad Aromatic Hub for a 2000 Nissan S22
I don't know how to do it. Do You can help me fo it, please
thank you good expanation
So I had a Jeep in 4H with no lockers. I got off the trail and I did a u-turn on pavement. With the steering wheel turned all the way to the left I felt the drivetrain bind up and the wheels start to slip and hop. Why did that happen since the Jeep didn’t have lockers?
Because you did a u turn on pavement in 4h. 4h can be utilised on the road for extra traction/control in hazardous conditions. Turning as sam said wheels rotating differently as and causes that slipping binding to happen. On the road unless 100% necessary put it back to h2
@@mattkearney11 My U-turn was to get back on the trail off pavement and with traffic coming I didn’t think to take it off 4H. Anyway, I figured out the physics. Since the transfer case is locked, the front and rear drive shafts spin at the same RPM. Which means the combined RPM of the front wheels = the combined RPM of the rear wheels. But the rear wheels cut the corner and travel less distance when turning. Since the front wheels have to travel further than they are spinning when turning, the rear wheels push and caused the front wheels to skip and hop forward to catch up. This isn’t an issue in dirt where the front wheels would slide a little forward or the rear wheels would slip a little. Do I have that right?
@@notreallyme425 all you have to do is knock it out of 4h. back to 2h. its called wind up.even without a centre diff,this happens.
yeah nice mate
Nice vid. Need a locker for my ranger. Great content as usual 😀
I have a WG Jeep....it’s factory stock with lockers..hehe
Wait, so you said there are front and rear difs, then what is a center dif
Full time 4WDs have a centre diff and part time 4WDs do not. A full time 4WD will always drive both axles but lets them rotate at different speeds when the centre diff is unlocked.
A part time 4WD normally only drives the rear axle but locks the front in when 4WD is selected.
So locking the centre diff does the same thing as selecting 4WD.
Witch one do you recommend for my 2015 Tacoma
love the sound of the patrol, nice man
Hi Sam, really good video.. I got extremely motivated to install a rear difflock on my patrol bagon 3.0L. Do you guys can do the job, if not do you know anyone who could do it in Perth. Thanks and drive safe
I visited a drift/drag shop near Perth back in 2006. I think it was called redline? They could probably do it.
Front locker and CVs in a ifs ? What should and shouldn’t I do to keep my cvs happy? Cheers!
Dont floor it with ya front wheel in the air. Locker in the front can help. Been there twin locked. Really good
You should do a solid axle conversion, haha.
SAS it!! If u wanna keep ur cvs happy, dont lift above 2 inches, and dont bother locking the front
A locker can help prevent you breaking your CVs but only if you use it right. Don't use it more than needed and use both front and rear together if you are lifting wheels or really need the extra traction.
cool video mate i cant wait until i get a patrol
Anyone else frothing over that flex in the suspension?
Great video thanks
Hey interesting video and very informative! I'm located in Texas a recently bought my wife a Subaru ascent...saw they offer a 2" lift but my thing is could I install front and rear lockers in it? Haven't seen any kits for it and wondering if it is possible?
It is not really possible. No one makes lockers for Subaru and they wouldn't work well on an AWD anyway.
If you can only afford one; rear or front first?
It is an ongoing debate but in most cases I would choose rear first.
In almost all 4WD vehicles the rear axle is stronger than the front, so but putting a locker in the back you are giving the stronger axle more traction and making it do most of the work.
The rear locker can also be used a lot more because it doesn't affect steering and doesn't put strain on the front axle.
On the other side of the argument, many 4WDs come standard with a rear LSD so by fitting a locker to the front you will now have a traction aid in both axles.
Also, it is more likely to lift a front wheel than a rear wheel so a front locker will help out here.
I have a 2020 Jeep Gladiator with max tow package that gives me Dana 44 wide axles, however it came with a conventional differential. Why the hell would Jeep put a conventional diff in a 4x4 is beyond me. You can only get the lockers on the Rubicon models. as an option you can get Anti-Spin differential for 595 dollar upgrade. an anti spin differential should be standard on a damn JEEP 4x4. Anyway, what can I do to upgrade to locking system to go offroading. Is my only option to install a differential locker, or is there a cheaper option to get the same effect? If installing a differential locker is my only option, do I do both front and rear?
Most 4x4s don't come with lockers standard because they are only set up for light off-roading in standard form. Your Jeep would have off-road traction control which is not as effective as lockers but it does help a lot and is enough for most people.
If you really need the extra traction of lockers, then they are worth the money. Lunchbox lockers (like Spartan, Lokka, Aussie, etc.) are very cheap but can be rough and noisy in operation.
@@JeremyPetho only if you have the front hubs in 4x4ing,so does that matter,?.NO. the rear,id detroit.or e locker. only gave the guy half an answer,again...
@@phantomwalker8251
What exactly are you trying to say here? What do front hubs have to do with this?
I've actually learnt stuff haha
Solid video brother, enjoyed it!
I have Factorie rear locker shooter put a front locker in
GREAT VIDEO I LEARNT MORE HERE THEN SCHOOL LOL
What about manual locking hubs for the front diff do they kind of do the same job as a locker?
sam beavis No they don’t.
No mate not at all, that just engage the front wheels, without them locked the diff will spin but axels and wheels wont
I have a factory locker in my N80, never had a problem with it (apart from it only being able to engage in low range) is there any advantage in fitting an aftermarket locker?
logan Scottbarnes get an ‘anytime locker’ buddy
Not really mate, waste of $$ unless factory one breaks
it should work in 4 high & low,if not,see a leci,he could fix the wireing..
That’s why I love my Jeep, aftermarket is strong and I have a controller that allows me to engage F/R factory lockers whenever.
at 8:49 it clearly says Eaton, so how can it be a Harrop, I'm confused?
Eaton+harrop=same
Eaton makes diff locks for the USA market, Harrop uses the locking mechanism from Eaton and makes it for Australian market 4WDs.
So if you have an lsd it’s basically having a locker but just full time ???
A locker locks both sides together. An LSD tries to hold both sides together with friction but with enough force it will still end up slipping.