Yeah - this would be the better name. For another vehicle charging curve, the ideal starting %-age could be 15% or 20% for example. But then again, you want to keep it simple. I would call it "man with a small bladder test", for people like me who can't drive for longer than a bit more than an hour anyway, having to stop for a wee all the time....
@@henningkarbstein777 yeah, I get it. My limit is about two hours, at which time I need to stop, drain the bladder and stretch the legs. Usually about a 10 minute stop for me, but stretching that to 15 or 20 would be no big deal. The longer stops would add about an hour to my 700 mile trips, not too bad.
Another factor for this test is: were you running the AC and what temp were you set at. With tests being on different days with different outdoor and AC requirements it will be difficult to make close comparisons.
You should record charger handshake time in a separate column. I think you're right not to include it in the 15-minute charging cycle, but it's a real issue that affects people, and I don't know of anyone else tracking it. It would still be very illuminating to compare handshake time for various chargers or vehicle brands or software revisions.
That's useful for CCS chargers, doesn't matter for Superchargers which only takes about 3 seconds. The problem is the number of combinations, you have different charging networks, each has multiple brands of chargers and you have many different cars each with their own handshake issues. The total number of tests that would need to be done is astronomical.
Yeeeessss. Until they rolled out the auto-charge feature getting the local EvGo chargers to start required a fucking rain dance and offerings to the gods and if you did the ritual wrong you had to start over.
I once had a real problem with a Supercharger station. It did not want to start to charge. I had to unplug and plug it again. Took 10, maybe 20 seconds. The 3 times i went to a different charge provider i once made a detour about 45 km to the next Supercharger and back again - that was faster, and twice i had to search around for another charging station, and they even accepted my charging card. Ahh and once i got "lucky" and it accepted my credit card after setting up my Laptop and Internet access through my phone as hotspot (not used to that) for 2FA and ackowledging my credit card authorization. Only took maybe 20 minutes? That was fun. Had to charge the Fiat 500E after i bought it from a dealer 250km away in winter.
For CCS or Tesla the handshake should be included because when you stop 15 minutes is a perfectly reasonable goal as Kyle explained so I would argue for definitely NOT subtracting any handshake issues. If CCS cars and CCS networks can’t do well in this test people need to know that is a fact of life and buy their car accordingly and choose their charging network accordingly. We all know there’s just 2 nationwide options at the moment, Tesla and EA, so if EA takes an extra 2 minutes for the handshake then you ought to include that in the 15 minutes.
Awesome! Just got home from a road trip and I was thinking the exact same thing. The perfect EV is always being able to arrive at 10% and then spend 15 minutes at a charger for maximum mileage. Those times you have to grab something to eat any EV will reach +90% anyway, so 10% + 15 minutes is the perfect EV. Cannot wait to see EVs going on this test.
As an HVAC engineer, I love that you can see the reefer system. Being able to see superheat and subcool T/Ps is awesome. The glycol loop graphic is pretty neat as well.
I love the thought behind this test. This gives prospective drivers a much more realistic idea of road trip range with no compromises of lower speeds or lower climate controls. Excited to see more vehicles tested like this!
Pretty cool test. Why I think this is relevant: I stopped last night in Cayce, SC, for a charge at the new V3 supercharger, pulling in with my 22MYP at 8% SOC, towing a essentially-empty LOWES 6x12 utility trailer with the ramps folded into the trailer and down, saving ~20-25% aero drag. I plugged in and walked 50-100 yards to the Sonic for bite to eat and restroom pitstop. I got back to the car about 10 minutes later, where I ate my toasters, and watched a partial UA-cam show. The charge I needed to get home (approx. 63 miles) ended within 15 minutes of plugging in, and Tesla's trip software took the trailer into account. I hadn't finished eating my dinner, so I kept eating, leaving the car charging the whole time. Of 12 stalls, I was one of 3 carrs there. Although at the Cayce, SC, supercharger there isn't a pull through slot, so I ended up blocking 3 stalls. NBD, it was 11PM and clearly not busy. After 21 minutes (according to TeslaFi) I unplugged and back underway. I went from 8%-71% SOC in 21 minutes. And I ate dinner and a pitstop. 3 birds, one stone. This is my real world reasoning that after 2 hours of driving, people need a pitstop, and the car can regain 50%-60% SOC without interrupting real life road tripping.
Thank you! This feels really close to the best possible "highway road trip range" test. Given that you're targeting a return at 10%, I'd just not worry about getting the loop perfect... just record the distance when you hit 10% on the pack, and actually aim to return back at the charger at anywhere between 5-10%
I remember back to when I first bought my Model 3 LR and would be really nervous on trips and running out of charge if I went too fast. Honestly was only maybe the first drive. Now I do 80-100mph and just watch the indicator. As long as I'll arrive w at least 2% I'm good. Real high speeds push me over 300wh/mi, but not much of a difference to be honest.
You should rename the test to be the 10'15 test, because I think the most important part of the test is the 15 minutes of charging. Love the test format, excited to see how other EV's compare!
That's exactly how I road trip in my Model Y. Of course, during longer dining stops I will let it charge to at 80%, even 95%. Stopping every 100 miles or so is great. It's rejuvenating, and makes it possible to drive longer each day if that's called for. I started out not want to drop below 15%, but with Superchargers being so reliable, and the car's accurate SOC and ETA estimation, I now will drive to 10% or lower without concerns of being stranded.
Caution. Do not run your Tesla below 5%. When you get lower than 5%, the dc to dc converter from high voltage to low voltage stops. So your low voltage battery that runs all the interior stuff starts to draw on that battery and stops charging. It the low voltage gets low enough like running at night with everything else on you could damage the low voltage battery. I learned the hard way and was told by Tesla tech that tip.
Agreed. I’m ok with dropping below 10% if I’m pretty sure where my next charge is coming from. I think of it as going Kyle Conner style … the trailblazer for EV road trips
Cool! Info is good to have. Last summer I took my 2021 M3 SR+ on a 5,500 mile road trip (CA >KY). With its shorter range, I certainly did have a couple more stops per day than a LR. But my average stop was still a very comfortable and doable ~20 mins. Average daily drive was about 400 miles, but I had a couple days that were 600+ miles. (Using AP made those longer days much more relaxing!). What I found was that the SR+ is a terrific road trip car. I didn’t mind the “extra” stops at all as I felt they added to the more relaxed pace, and my being far less beat and stressed after 12 hours of driving. Look forward to seeing more of these 10%, 15 minute tests!
From a UK perspective, the 70mph test is extremely useful as that's pretty much all we can do with how motorways (highways!) work these days with cameras etc. That said, for the US I see why you picked a 80mph, and I think this is going to be a really useful test - up there with your range tests and Bjorn's monster 1000km challenges. Awesome work!
I think 80 is what most people drive in the Western US especially; there are a handful of states (Montana, Wyoming, and Texas spring to mind) where the speed limit is 80 outside of cities, so 81 is probably a good place to check it. I personally would probably only go 70 just to max out the range, and I typically give myself lots of time so I'm not in a rush. I really appreciate this test though, it is way more representative of what people are going to do with their EVs!
@@igotheals kinda depends on the state, WA/OR max speed is 70, CA is 75 (but largely ignored). Hit that border to Idaho though and it's 80 with cars doing 85+.
The Model Y is actually heating the battery. It isn’t just the charging that gets it that hot. Even on hot days the Model Y and Model 3 will continue to precondition while charging. The Tesla vehicles need a tremendous amount of heat in the battery to accept full DC charging power. I don’t believe it slowed down because it was hot. I believe it slowed down because it is programmed to do that regardless of temperature.
Great idea, will give more first timers or those thinking about going electric insight into real world scenarios when arriving to a charger and how long they will need to be there.
You should include handshake and all issues you're going to come across with ccs cars 🙈 people are wasting time there, so why not. Great idea and video btw 👌
I have a Model X, and I usually cruise at 80 Mph on road trips. I'm glad you chose that speed for your test. I received mine in June, and I already have over 25 thousand miles on it. 😊
Interesting. I got my MYP in June and am just over 25k too (5 cross US trips in that time... well, 2 round trips and 1 insane day after I bought it trip). I also didn't have it for almost 1.5 months while I was away for work. IMO, this is indicative of my travel outside of two stops (El Paso, TX and Lindale, TX) for my SoCal -> NC trips. I've started using EA to avoid crowded superchargers, but Lindale is unavoidable. (for now...)
@descendency I live in Atlanta, and my family is from Tennessee. Plus, I went to several football games and a trip to Miami for tennis. I used the supercharger network for all of my charging minus a few times charging at hotels.
I agree with the 10% arrival and anxiety. I recently drove my brand new Model Y from Colorado Springs to Las Vegas. Going to Vegas, I tried to do the Out of Spec way and charged only enough to arrive with under 10%. From Parachute, CO to Green River, UT I arrived with 0%. I actually got really scared and couldn’t even make it to the EA CCS Charger down the road at the coffee shop. Had to charge at the slower Super Charger at the Veteran’s Museum. I did like your tip and used the chargers away from the road. Made a huge difference.
Yes! Finally a test that tales into account the actual miles an EV can cover from charging during a representative restroom stop instead of arbitrary figures on how long it takes to get to 80% when I for one certainly don't hang around that long at stops, 20 mins at the absolute max and that's usually if I'm at a v2 charger. Charging performance at the part of the pack that actually matters, combined with efficiency are what matters for road tripping. I've been convinced the YLR (at least on aero 19s) covers ground just slightly faster than an Ioniq5 or even EV6 under these conditions so will be interesting to see if I'm right...
Nice test idea, miles per minute charing is more important than then charging power (kW). 10% is a good starting point as well. Looking forward to see how other cars performs.
I wonder how many people out there know that charging only between 20 and 80% allows a battery to last more than 20 years and between 30 and 70% for over 50 years with minimal degradation even with fast DC charging. This has been proven in labs by doing a 0 to 100% charge every 50th charge cycle to truly know the full capacity and said stages. So a 15 to 20 minute charge (a Lucid for example, gets 200 miles after only fast charging for 11 minutes and 300 miles after 22 minutes) (and E-GMP EVs go from 10 to 80% in under 20 minutes) is all you need.
Thanks for that! You should have a spreadsheet in the videos later on, showing the results. Bjørn Nyland, the Norwegian EV-tester has that. Nice to be able to pause the video and compare.
This was great, very helpful vid. I have a MYLR with induction wheels so particularly helpful to me. 👍 Thanks! Btw, mine is a late 2022 so better suspension plus I lucked out and got USS.
I think you should absolutely include handshake time! this should be 15 minutes from putting the car in park to putting it back in drive. because using the charger interface and how fast it operates is part of charging.
Would appreciate the video you suggested here on how to access ALL the diagnostic screens and going over in detail 👌. Is that doable fairly soon. Good Tesla test!
For a while the delivery times were better if you picked the induction wheels. I wonder if, during that time, Hertz ordered that configuration to take delivery sooner or if that's just an unrelated coincidence.
That’s not bad! I drive about 180 miles up to my in-laws cabin in the lake. We invariably stop at a rest area for at least 15 minutes. Or for food. Or for gas. That sort of charging time would not impact our drive at all! I have a Model 3 now so, we’ll see how that goes in real life in the not too distant future.
Good test. 15 minutes is almost comparable to slightly slower 30+g fill on your average truck or to a 10ish g sedan fillup + bathroom run. (Granted you have to do them far more often, but well it is what it is and that's what the test is about.)
Nice video Kyle, love this new test, can't wait to see more of these test. Also the Tesla preconditioning when navigation is set to your next supercharger stop is annoying because it preconditions all the way to the supercharger and use alot of energy doing it. That's why I do what you did and pin a navigation point by the supercharger and when I'm 5-10 mins to the charger I will set navigate back to supercharger so it can precondition. Tesla should fix this so it preconditions closer to the supercharger and not all the way there, depending on battery temperature obviously.
I did a highway test loop video with 5 different variants of the Model 3 on my channel recently and they all either matched or beat their EPA efficiency going 65 mph continuous with A/C on in 90° weather. Put 19" Aero wheels and Eco tires on my Model 3 Performance and gained 8% range! 😎
This is really idea for testing. Teslas are so easy to road trip. I find road tripping my Model 3 to be such a better experience than ICE vehicles. i actually look forward to Tesla roadtrips whereas I dreaded road tripping in ICE cars.
I’m interested in the LFP batteries and the change in perception of how you charge and deplete the batteries. Charging to 100% and depleting to 10 or less. Effectively gaining 30% more use on a daily/weekly basis.
Interesting test. It'll also be interesting to see as you add more vehicles. Following with interest as we have a new MYLR with 19's and will be travelling from AZ to ME with a cargo carrier in our tow hitch in a few weeks. Trying to stay on the lower end of the battery in ABRP as we plan the trip. We just did a 226 mile trip running AC hard, several stops for photos etc using dog mode and running a DC cooler off the low voltage system as well, we managed 57kwh and 251Wh/Mi. Left with 82% and arrived in Tucson with 9%. Very pleased with that given the AC use and the large DC cooler running as well as the loaded cargo carrier on back. I also had my ugly wheel covers off for this drive.
Hey Kyle - been doing a LOT of road tripping in helping people move over the past couple months and I think that the name of the test may change (maybe Road Trip test instead?) but all of the test parameters are great. I usually aim for 10% arrival at the chargers to try to account for any weather issues as needed and/or weight by default; it's also what most will do for any range anxiety as you mentioned. All my recent travelling from the south to north borders of CA with rain/snow and into Oregon still kept all these mindsets good, so it seems like a good benchmark to start on. @Thevenin had a good idea as well, to track any handshake separately, but not with the car's metrics. If possible, these all would be good things moving forward in the future!
This is a great test! Perfect. It should give a better idea of how impractical some of the larger EVs are for road trips, due to slow charging, inefficiency or both. I am curious though: What would be the optimal speed, if you're going a long distance where you have to make multiple charging stops? Would a lower speed like 70 actually get you there faster because you're spending less time charging? My back of the envelope math tells me going faster is still faster, but I'd like to know from someone who knows :)
Because of the charge speeds and efficiency, Model 3 crossover point is somewhere around 110 mph before it takes more time to charge than time saved driving. I imagine model Y is probably around 100mph.
Correct. There is an optimal speed such that if we go faster than that, the overall trip slows down bcoz of too high consumption. Battery Life found it to be ~130 kph/~81 mph in this video in the Ioniq 38 kWh. ua-cam.com/video/eDP2F4DvwD8/v-deo.html
You can model this in ABetterRoutePlanner, you can manually set the Speed in planner to >100%, it will take into account and burn more power, and plan charges more frequently. Folks have said charging is faster than driving, so if you are in a rush, faster to burn it and speed (safely!), and just charge a bit more... still comes out ahead time-wise, but will be more $ as more power used.
I usually try to have 10% buffer if I am in a road trip away from my usual routes so for me it is a good test. Sometimes I end up driving a bit more,,, spirited and I go lower. Also since you aim to get 10% when getting back, you get the chance as you mentioned to verify the result. Could there be some sort of relevant test to see how easy it is to save range by going slightly slower to aim for the 10%. It is really one of the things that you notice driving an ev that if you can’t make it. Going slower helps so much. Much more that people driving ICE cars can imagine.
I did this exact test at the same location with my 2020 Model 3 LR, tweeted you with the information, and was able to do 124 miles doing the 10% 15 minute challenge. Low 60 degrees today. Think you need to do the Plaid with this test. 😉. Also I-76 is rough coming to Denver, right before Keensburg exit, where the interstate is much smoother.
Those temperature readings are quite strange. If you’re cooling the battery, the coolant isn’t at 50 degC, and no one I know thinks 60 degC is a healthy temp for a lithium cell. 🤷♂️ But t’he test idea is a good one. 👍
Awesome test! 15-minutes Charging Cycle should be the name. Cannot wait to see rest of the results for other EV! Please share the spreadsheet with handshake time and other relevant data if possible.
Great idea! There are a bunch of different tests out there and they are all very nice. In France, where I live, there is this YT channel that tests all the EVs againsts the Hyundai Ioniq 28 (one of the most efficient EV out there, and the guys happend to have one when they started). They do a trip with the Ioniq 28 and another EV with round town, country roads, and highway portions. In the end, the compare the efficiency (in kWh/100km), in the three sections and everaged on the whole trip. They have done about 20 cars yet. The Ioniq 28 is set as reference to compare, each time. They have a big table of all the data, and the deltas between each car and the Ioniq 28. Very usefull. I hope to see a lot of videos from you too.
The local police tolerate 118 KPH/ 73 MPH in Eastern Canada on the highways, and at 128 KPH/ 80 MPH we would be ticketed all the time. I am not in the USA but my testing would max out at 73-75 MPH as 80 seems a bit high. Good concept for testing!
I hope to see many more of these, particularly showing the difference between vehicle with pre-conditioning and those without in different weather conditions from Freezing all the way up to 90's.
Using my M3P, if I go 81MPH indicated, I get around 110-115 miles out of my 50% indicated usage. If you had the 19" Aeros' I'll bet it would have been closer to the 110-115 the M3P gets at that speed.
Great test idea. You might also consider a summer and winter version of this to fully include precondition and winter losses as well as cold-gating differences. I do like how this wraps it all together as a real world miles in 15minutes test which factors in efficiency as well. So many standard users get stuck on peak rates and don't even understand the curve or efficiency being often more important. This simplifies road trip speed in a much better way.
I really like this test. When I plug in at stops on long trips the time I spend going inside, having a washroom break, topping up drinks and snacks, and then getting back to the car is usually around 12 minutes give or take a minute or two. My main problem is that in an EV is that I don't need to stop every 2 hours, more like 3 or sometimes a bit longer. There doesn't seem to be an EV that can get 360km reliably in 12-15 minutes. My PHEV can go 900km between tanks of gas, and even more if I let it charge a bit at my destination and maybe over a lunch break. Almost always can make it where I'm going without a concern for range or fuel.
Nice test, but I would say you should definitely include handshake time, unless it's an out of the normal long time. If a car has a long handshake time, that's part of the charging process and you will have to deal with it every time
That keycard access for Hertz rentals is super-annoying. I get it (I think), but it doesn't really show off many of the neat features of the car and the app/connectivity. (That said, the rest of the vehicle was impressive enough that I got home from a vacation and ordered a 3, but... :D)
Keycard access is going to be super annoying, especially for people who own Teslas. Leaving the card in the car is going to be a common problem, and the lack of walk away locking and unlocking will cause problems. I understand why Hertz does this, if they didn't they would have to guarantee that their employees wipe each car every time it's returned. Given that Hertz keeps reporting their cars as stolen because they can't even log them in correctly you can't expect them to be able to clear the phone access from every cars that gets returned.
Thx. Not our first EV, so I'm pretty familiar with the pros and cons. Ability to go anywhere and the charging network was the final decider. That and the current price and tax credtis.
I think it is important to mention that the charging curve isn't necessarily locked to the percentage curve. I've seen this often with the LFP batteries that you plug in at 30, 50 or even higher % and the car will peak at 170kW. The higher the percentage, the shorter it will peak but it will.. That's for sure.
The 10% Challenge is legitimately useful! Based on this test result, an 80mph Tesla Model Y LR w/20" wheels can do 278 miles with a single 15 minutes charging stop. On a road trip, people are going to set out with 100% State of Charge and maybe stretch themselves down the road to 10%. A single stop for 15 minutes to recharge and take a nature break would be identical in a gas car. I'd guess that pretty much every Model Y competitor can do 275 miles +/- 25 miles based on this challenge (Full charge to 10% + 15 minutes charging).
I choose to do an 8% speed offset for the SSD bet settings in my dual motor long range model Y. That works out to be 81 mph out here in the west and Highway speed. The only issue I have with road trips in the southwest is that Many of the superchargers that I end up using our 150 kW and when going from one to another 150 kW charger the charging time can easily double if not two to half times increase. I keep reminding myself that today is the worst it will ever be and someday, there will be many more 250 kW chargers.
I hit 261kw max when charging starting at 10% with pre conditioning prior to getting at my super charger. Pretty crazy I thought. I have a 2023 MYP, picked it up late last month. The 10% rule is what I go by as well just incase I need to backtrack to another charger or go to a 3rd party charger. Kyle, you could have used my car for the demo in the NC area lol. The rainbow road is in the toy box options I believe to turn that feature off.
I think 80 mph is a good bench mark to start at. I live in KS, and when I’m on the freeway, I usually have it set to 85, but sometimes I’m not in a rush, and I’ll do 75. I feel like most people in this part of the country usually hang out around 80.
80mph seems reasonable in central US, but here on the east coast, speed limits are usually 55 or 65 mph and the faster traffic tends to go 75mph on average (there's always the occasional speedster ripping it at 90mph weaving through traffic down the NJ turnpike..)
I have a white model y 2022 long range aero wheels here in Arvada. Let me know if you want to do this sometimes. Just came back from a 1500 mile road trip to Kansas. About 8000k miles on the car. I definitely had a lot of wind going there. Range dropped a lot. Wouldn’t hurt to actually see the range drop with the wind as a different test so people know what to expect. The car adjusted itself by adding a charging stop due to the wind. I was going 80 but even slowing down with 30mph wind with gusts of 60mph didn’t help a whole lot to avoid the extra charger.
You should call it the 15 minute challenge because what you test is really how much you can charge in 15 minutes. I like the idea, good test.
Yeah - this would be the better name. For another vehicle charging curve, the ideal starting %-age could be 15% or 20% for example. But then again, you want to keep it simple.
I would call it "man with a small bladder test", for people like me who can't drive for longer than a bit more than an hour anyway, having to stop for a wee all the time....
@@henningkarbstein777 yeah, I get it. My limit is about two hours, at which time I need to stop, drain the bladder and stretch the legs. Usually about a 10 minute stop for me, but stretching that to 15 or 20 would be no big deal. The longer stops would add about an hour to my 700 mile trips, not too bad.
I disagree. ALSO being tested is the efficiency of the car. Imagine what a Hummer would do after a 15 minute charge.
@@DiscoveryOwners It would finally start to charge because it got the communication working with the EA station...
Another factor for this test is: were you running the AC and what temp were you set at. With tests being on different days with different outdoor and AC requirements it will be difficult to make close comparisons.
You should record charger handshake time in a separate column. I think you're right not to include it in the 15-minute charging cycle, but it's a real issue that affects people, and I don't know of anyone else tracking it. It would still be very illuminating to compare handshake time for various chargers or vehicle brands or software revisions.
That's useful for CCS chargers, doesn't matter for Superchargers which only takes about 3 seconds. The problem is the number of combinations, you have different charging networks, each has multiple brands of chargers and you have many different cars each with their own handshake issues. The total number of tests that would need to be done is astronomical.
@@joshuarosen465 just add the data as secondary objective
Yeeeessss. Until they rolled out the auto-charge feature getting the local EvGo chargers to start required a fucking rain dance and offerings to the gods and if you did the ritual wrong you had to start over.
I once had a real problem with a Supercharger station. It did not want to start to charge. I had to unplug and plug it again. Took 10, maybe 20 seconds.
The 3 times i went to a different charge provider i once made a detour about 45 km to the next Supercharger and back again - that was faster, and twice i had to search around for another charging station, and they even accepted my charging card.
Ahh and once i got "lucky" and it accepted my credit card after setting up my Laptop and Internet access through my phone as hotspot (not used to that) for 2FA and ackowledging my credit card authorization. Only took maybe 20 minutes? That was fun. Had to charge the Fiat 500E after i bought it from a dealer 250km away in winter.
For CCS or Tesla the handshake should be included because when you stop 15 minutes is a perfectly reasonable goal as Kyle explained so I would argue for definitely NOT subtracting any handshake issues. If CCS cars and CCS networks can’t do well in this test people need to know that is a fact of life and buy their car accordingly and choose their charging network accordingly. We all know there’s just 2 nationwide options at the moment, Tesla and EA, so if EA takes an extra 2 minutes for the handshake then you ought to include that in the 15 minutes.
Please do a service menu walkthrough for the Y! That is fascinating stuff.
I like it! Very representative of road tripping an EV. My charging stops are 5-20 minutes. Any longer is only for super long stretches.
Awesome! Just got home from a road trip and I was thinking the exact same thing. The perfect EV is always being able to arrive at 10% and then spend 15 minutes at a charger for maximum mileage. Those times you have to grab something to eat any EV will reach +90% anyway, so 10% + 15 minutes is the perfect EV. Cannot wait to see EVs going on this test.
Perhaps you guys could build a spreadsheet with all the results, similar to what Tesla Bjorn does.
Google sheeeeeiiiiit
@@fiehlsport "you like that shit?"
As an HVAC engineer, I love that you can see the reefer system. Being able to see superheat and subcool T/Ps is awesome. The glycol loop graphic is pretty neat as well.
I love the thought behind this test. This gives prospective drivers a much more realistic idea of road trip range with no compromises of lower speeds or lower climate controls. Excited to see more vehicles tested like this!
Love this test as a way to capture the real world experience of driving an EV on a road trip!
Pretty cool test. Why I think this is relevant: I stopped last night in Cayce, SC, for a charge at the new V3 supercharger, pulling in with my 22MYP at 8% SOC, towing a essentially-empty LOWES 6x12 utility trailer with the ramps folded into the trailer and down, saving ~20-25% aero drag. I plugged in and walked 50-100 yards to the Sonic for bite to eat and restroom pitstop. I got back to the car about 10 minutes later, where I ate my toasters, and watched a partial UA-cam show. The charge I needed to get home (approx. 63 miles) ended within 15 minutes of plugging in, and Tesla's trip software took the trailer into account. I hadn't finished eating my dinner, so I kept eating, leaving the car charging the whole time. Of 12 stalls, I was one of 3 carrs there. Although at the Cayce, SC, supercharger there isn't a pull through slot, so I ended up blocking 3 stalls. NBD, it was 11PM and clearly not busy. After 21 minutes (according to TeslaFi) I unplugged and back underway. I went from 8%-71% SOC in 21 minutes. And I ate dinner and a pitstop. 3 birds, one stone. This is my real world reasoning that after 2 hours of driving, people need a pitstop, and the car can regain 50%-60% SOC without interrupting real life road tripping.
Thank you! This feels really close to the best possible "highway road trip range" test.
Given that you're targeting a return at 10%, I'd just not worry about getting the loop perfect... just record the distance when you hit 10% on the pack, and actually aim to return back at the charger at anywhere between 5-10%
Good point
I remember back to when I first bought my Model 3 LR and would be really nervous on trips and running out of charge if I went too fast. Honestly was only maybe the first drive. Now I do 80-100mph and just watch the indicator. As long as I'll arrive w at least 2% I'm good. Real high speeds push me over 300wh/mi, but not much of a difference to be honest.
You should rename the test to be the 10'15 test, because I think the most important part of the test is the 15 minutes of charging. Love the test format, excited to see how other EV's compare!
In depth coverage on the battery service pages please!
That's exactly how I road trip in my Model Y. Of course, during longer dining stops I will let it charge to at 80%, even 95%. Stopping every 100 miles or so is great. It's rejuvenating, and makes it possible to drive longer each day if that's called for. I started out not want to drop below 15%, but with Superchargers being so reliable, and the car's accurate SOC and ETA estimation, I now will drive to 10% or lower without concerns of being stranded.
Caution. Do not run your Tesla below 5%. When you get lower than 5%, the dc to dc converter from high voltage to low voltage stops. So your low voltage battery that runs all the interior stuff starts to draw on that battery and stops charging. It the low voltage gets low enough like running at night with everything else on you could damage the low voltage battery. I learned the hard way and was told by Tesla tech that tip.
Thanks!
This kind of stuff is exactly why I come to the Out of Spec team. Real world, useful benchmarking !! Great stuff Kyle !
You're right, lower than 10% is uncomfortable, I'd find a charger right around there.
On road trips I aim for 5%. In a Tesla it's crazy easy for me to see where I'm going and arrival estimation.
Agreed.
I’m ok with dropping below 10% if I’m pretty sure where my next charge is coming from.
I think of it as going Kyle Conner style … the trailblazer for EV road trips
U have at least 20 miles of buffer after zero
I dont stress for anything above 0%
I don't let the gas tank in my car run below 50%. I have a hard time seeing myself do that with a battery, either.
@@TheAndrwwJohnson yup when the it says 6 or 7 percent arrival at the next charger I leave and try to get there with 2-5%
Cool! Info is good to have.
Last summer I took my 2021 M3 SR+ on a 5,500 mile road trip (CA >KY). With its shorter range, I certainly did have a couple more stops per day than a LR. But my average stop was still a very comfortable and doable ~20 mins. Average daily drive was about 400 miles, but I had a couple days that were 600+ miles. (Using AP made those longer days much more relaxing!).
What I found was that the SR+ is a terrific road trip car. I didn’t mind the “extra” stops at all as I felt they added to the more relaxed pace, and my being far less beat and stressed after 12 hours of driving.
Look forward to seeing more of these 10%, 15 minute tests!
Thank you! It's great to have a test designed by someone who actually owns an EV!
From a UK perspective, the 70mph test is extremely useful as that's pretty much all we can do with how motorways (highways!) work these days with cameras etc. That said, for the US I see why you picked a 80mph, and I think this is going to be a really useful test - up there with your range tests and Bjorn's monster 1000km challenges. Awesome work!
I think 80 is what most people drive in the Western US especially; there are a handful of states (Montana, Wyoming, and Texas spring to mind) where the speed limit is 80 outside of cities, so 81 is probably a good place to check it. I personally would probably only go 70 just to max out the range, and I typically give myself lots of time so I'm not in a rush. I really appreciate this test though, it is way more representative of what people are going to do with their EVs!
@@igotheals you missed Idaho & Utah. I drive 85-90 in most of the West.
@@brendykes1202 I drive 73 in Utah/Idaho so I know exactly how many cars are on I-15, since they all pass me. ;)
@@igotheals kinda depends on the state, WA/OR max speed is 70, CA is 75 (but largely ignored). Hit that border to Idaho though and it's 80 with cars doing 85+.
Here in the UK you would be caught by the police for filming with your mobile while driving, and fined pretty smartly.
I was going to say, those bumps sounded super stiff. 16:12
The Model 3 long range with 18” aero wheels is the king of this test. Love ours for road trips!
The Model Y is actually heating the battery. It isn’t just the charging that gets it that hot. Even on hot days the Model Y and Model 3 will continue to precondition while charging. The Tesla vehicles need a tremendous amount of heat in the battery to accept full DC charging power. I don’t believe it slowed down because it was hot. I believe it slowed down because it is programmed to do that regardless of temperature.
Great idea, will give more first timers or those thinking about going electric insight into real world scenarios when arriving to a charger and how long they will need to be there.
You should include handshake and all issues you're going to come across with ccs cars 🙈 people are wasting time there, so why not. Great idea and video btw 👌
I have a Model X, and I usually cruise at 80 Mph on road trips. I'm glad you chose that speed for your test. I received mine in June, and I already have over 25 thousand miles on it. 😊
Interesting. I got my MYP in June and am just over 25k too (5 cross US trips in that time... well, 2 round trips and 1 insane day after I bought it trip). I also didn't have it for almost 1.5 months while I was away for work.
IMO, this is indicative of my travel outside of two stops (El Paso, TX and Lindale, TX) for my SoCal -> NC trips. I've started using EA to avoid crowded superchargers, but Lindale is unavoidable. (for now...)
@descendency I live in Atlanta, and my family is from Tennessee. Plus, I went to several football games and a trip to Miami for tennis. I used the supercharger network for all of my charging minus a few times charging at hotels.
I agree with the 10% arrival and anxiety. I recently drove my brand new Model Y from Colorado Springs to Las Vegas. Going to Vegas, I tried to do the Out of Spec way and charged only enough to arrive with under 10%. From Parachute, CO to Green River, UT I arrived with 0%. I actually got really scared and couldn’t even make it to the EA CCS Charger down the road at the coffee shop. Had to charge at the slower Super Charger at the Veteran’s Museum. I did like your tip and used the chargers away from the road. Made a huge difference.
Love this test. Feels more applicable than the overall “range” as zero and 100 are both unreasonable expectations for a road trip.
Yes! Finally a test that tales into account the actual miles an EV can cover from charging during a representative restroom stop instead of arbitrary figures on how long it takes to get to 80% when I for one certainly don't hang around that long at stops, 20 mins at the absolute max and that's usually if I'm at a v2 charger.
Charging performance at the part of the pack that actually matters, combined with efficiency are what matters for road tripping.
I've been convinced the YLR (at least on aero 19s) covers ground just slightly faster than an Ioniq5 or even EV6 under these conditions so will be interesting to see if I'm right...
Nice test idea, miles per minute charing is more important than then charging power (kW). 10% is a good starting point as well. Looking forward to see how other cars performs.
I wonder how many people out there know that charging only between 20 and 80% allows a battery to last more than 20 years and between 30 and 70% for over 50 years with minimal degradation even with fast DC charging. This has been proven in labs by doing a 0 to 100% charge every 50th charge cycle to truly know the full capacity and said stages.
So a 15 to 20 minute charge (a Lucid for example, gets 200 miles after only fast charging for 11 minutes and 300 miles after 22 minutes) (and E-GMP EVs go from 10 to 80% in under 20 minutes) is all you need.
Calendar aging will kill batteries long before 20 years, yet alone 50. Not to mention the car itself will probably fall apart by then.
Thanks for that! You should have a spreadsheet in the videos later on, showing the results. Bjørn Nyland, the Norwegian EV-tester has that. Nice to be able to pause the video and compare.
Would love to see this on the Ioniq 5 AWD too! Love the videos...keep em coming.
This was great, very helpful vid. I have a MYLR with induction wheels so particularly helpful to me. 👍 Thanks! Btw, mine is a late 2022 so better suspension plus I lucked out and got USS.
I think you should absolutely include handshake time! this should be 15 minutes from putting the car in park to putting it back in drive. because using the charger interface and how fast it operates is part of charging.
Agreed.
How did you get into that menu at 8:33 where you see the charging cooling and temps? Thank you!
Would appreciate the video you suggested here on how to access ALL the diagnostic screens and going over in detail 👌. Is that doable fairly soon. Good Tesla test!
For a while the delivery times were better if you picked the induction wheels. I wonder if, during that time, Hertz ordered that configuration to take delivery sooner or if that's just an unrelated coincidence.
Really like this new test! Definitely a practical, very useful test for road trippers.
That’s not bad! I drive about 180 miles up to my in-laws cabin in the lake. We invariably stop at a rest area for at least 15 minutes. Or for food. Or for gas. That sort of charging time would not impact our drive at all! I have a Model 3 now so, we’ll see how that goes in real life in the not too distant future.
Good test. 15 minutes is almost comparable to slightly slower 30+g fill on your average truck or to a 10ish g sedan fillup + bathroom run. (Granted you have to do them far more often, but well it is what it is and that's what the test is about.)
Kyle I think the Handshake time should be part of the test. Because it represents the real world we live in to charge.
Nice video Kyle, love this new test, can't wait to see more of these test. Also the Tesla preconditioning when navigation is set to your next supercharger stop is annoying because it preconditions all the way to the supercharger and use alot of energy doing it. That's why I do what you did and pin a navigation point by the supercharger and when I'm 5-10 mins to the charger I will set navigate back to supercharger so it can precondition. Tesla should fix this so it preconditions closer to the supercharger and not all the way there, depending on battery temperature obviously.
Well that was a lot of fun. Very impressed Model Y. Looking forward to see how Mach e, ID.4, EV6, and Ionic 5 stack up.
I did a highway test loop video with 5 different variants of the Model 3 on my channel recently and they all either matched or beat their EPA efficiency going 65 mph continuous with A/C on in 90° weather. Put 19" Aero wheels and Eco tires on my Model 3 Performance and gained 8% range! 😎
Omg please do a deep dive into the service menu
This is really idea for testing. Teslas are so easy to road trip. I find road tripping my Model 3 to be such a better experience than ICE vehicles. i actually look forward to Tesla roadtrips whereas I dreaded road tripping in ICE cars.
Good thing they spell it with a K....
Ioniq 6 should be top of the charts for this challenge due to it’s charging curve and efficiency.
Followed by or similar with taycan and ev6 I guess.
Great new test run strategy, I'll try it on my next SW Colorado to SF Bay Area and back run. Thanks much.
I’m interested in the LFP batteries and the change in perception of how you charge and deplete the batteries. Charging to 100% and depleting to 10 or less. Effectively gaining 30% more use on a daily/weekly basis.
Interesting test. It'll also be interesting to see as you add more vehicles. Following with interest as we have a new MYLR with 19's and will be travelling from AZ to ME with a cargo carrier in our tow hitch in a few weeks. Trying to stay on the lower end of the battery in ABRP as we plan the trip. We just did a 226 mile trip running AC hard, several stops for photos etc using dog mode and running a DC cooler off the low voltage system as well, we managed 57kwh and 251Wh/Mi. Left with 82% and arrived in Tucson with 9%. Very pleased with that given the AC use and the large DC cooler running as well as the loaded cargo carrier on back. I also had my ugly wheel covers off for this drive.
Hey Kyle - been doing a LOT of road tripping in helping people move over the past couple months and I think that the name of the test may change (maybe Road Trip test instead?) but all of the test parameters are great. I usually aim for 10% arrival at the chargers to try to account for any weather issues as needed and/or weight by default; it's also what most will do for any range anxiety as you mentioned. All my recent travelling from the south to north borders of CA with rain/snow and into Oregon still kept all these mindsets good, so it seems like a good benchmark to start on. @Thevenin had a good idea as well, to track any handshake separately, but not with the car's metrics. If possible, these all would be good things moving forward in the future!
That service mode information is amazing!
Thank you. Awesome real world test.
This is a great test! Perfect. It should give a better idea of how impractical some of the larger EVs are for road trips, due to slow charging, inefficiency or both. I am curious though: What would be the optimal speed, if you're going a long distance where you have to make multiple charging stops? Would a lower speed like 70 actually get you there faster because you're spending less time charging? My back of the envelope math tells me going faster is still faster, but I'd like to know from someone who knows :)
Because of the charge speeds and efficiency, Model 3 crossover point is somewhere around 110 mph before it takes more time to charge than time saved driving. I imagine model Y is probably around 100mph.
Correct. There is an optimal speed such that if we go faster than that, the overall trip slows down bcoz of too high consumption. Battery Life found it to be ~130 kph/~81 mph in this video in the Ioniq 38 kWh.
ua-cam.com/video/eDP2F4DvwD8/v-deo.html
You can model this in ABetterRoutePlanner, you can manually set the Speed in planner to >100%, it will take into account and burn more power, and plan charges more frequently.
Folks have said charging is faster than driving, so if you are in a rush, faster to burn it and speed (safely!), and just charge a bit more... still comes out ahead time-wise, but will be more $ as more power used.
I usually try to have 10% buffer if I am in a road trip away from my usual
routes so for me it is a good test. Sometimes I end up driving a bit more,,, spirited and I go lower. Also since you aim to get 10% when getting back, you get the chance as you mentioned to verify the result.
Could there be some sort of relevant test to see how easy it is to save range by going slightly slower to aim for the 10%. It is really one of the things that you notice driving an ev that if you can’t make it. Going slower helps so much. Much more that people driving ICE cars can imagine.
Tesla calculates your arrival percentage, and it will update the estimate if you change speeds to ensure you arrive at an intended minimum %.
I did this exact test at the same location with my 2020 Model 3 LR, tweeted you with the information, and was able to do 124 miles doing the 10% 15 minute challenge. Low 60 degrees today. Think you need to do the Plaid with this test. 😉. Also I-76 is rough coming to Denver, right before Keensburg exit, where the interstate is much smoother.
Those temperature readings are quite strange. If you’re cooling the battery, the coolant isn’t at 50 degC, and no one I know thinks 60 degC is a healthy temp for a lithium cell. 🤷♂️
But t’he test idea is a good one. 👍
That's cool you can see wants going on with your car😎
Awesome test! 15-minutes Charging Cycle should be the name. Cannot wait to see rest of the results for other EV! Please share the spreadsheet with handshake time and other relevant data if possible.
You should also start a google Sheeeeet.
Great idea!
There are a bunch of different tests out there and they are all very nice.
In France, where I live, there is this YT channel that tests all the EVs againsts the Hyundai Ioniq 28 (one of the most efficient EV out there, and the guys happend to have one when they started). They do a trip with the Ioniq 28 and another EV with round town, country roads, and highway portions. In the end, the compare the efficiency (in kWh/100km), in the three sections and everaged on the whole trip. They have done about 20 cars yet. The Ioniq 28 is set as reference to compare, each time.
They have a big table of all the data, and the deltas between each car and the Ioniq 28. Very usefull. I hope to see a lot of videos from you too.
wow that service menu is so cool!!
@Out of Spec Reviews It would be great if you could do a series on what to expect when you rent a Tesla/EV from a rental company.
03:04 agreed, 10% is more comfortable for most ppl
Great test, looking forward to many more.
The local police tolerate 118 KPH/ 73 MPH in Eastern Canada on the highways, and at 128 KPH/ 80 MPH we would be ticketed all the time. I am not in the USA but my testing would max out at 73-75 MPH as 80 seems a bit high. Good concept for testing!
I hope to see many more of these, particularly showing the difference between vehicle with pre-conditioning and those without in different weather conditions from Freezing all the way up to 90's.
Using my M3P, if I go 81MPH indicated, I get around 110-115 miles out of my 50% indicated usage. If you had the 19" Aeros' I'll bet it would have been closer to the 110-115 the M3P gets at that speed.
Great test idea. You might also consider a summer and winter version of this to fully include precondition and winter losses as well as cold-gating differences. I do like how this wraps it all together as a real world miles in 15minutes test which factors in efficiency as well. So many standard users get stuck on peak rates and don't even understand the curve or efficiency being often more important. This simplifies road trip speed in a much better way.
Excellent setup for a really relevant test. Love it ! Can‘t wait to see other vehicles performance in comparison
Great idea and a nice equalizer for both the vehicle and charging infrastructure
Crazy that you can get a Model Y LR for about $39k now with the tax credit that you get upfront.
Love the channel and this was a good video in particular!
I really like this test. When I plug in at stops on long trips the time I spend going inside, having a washroom break, topping up drinks and snacks, and then getting back to the car is usually around 12 minutes give or take a minute or two.
My main problem is that in an EV is that I don't need to stop every 2 hours, more like 3 or sometimes a bit longer. There doesn't seem to be an EV that can get 360km reliably in 12-15 minutes. My PHEV can go 900km between tanks of gas, and even more if I let it charge a bit at my destination and maybe over a lunch break. Almost always can make it where I'm going without a concern for range or fuel.
Nice test, but I would say you should definitely include handshake time, unless it's an out of the normal long time. If a car has a long handshake time, that's part of the charging process and you will have to deal with it every time
My experience is that some chargers need longer handshake. It doesn’t have to be the cars fault in my opinion.
That keycard access for Hertz rentals is super-annoying. I get it (I think), but it doesn't really show off many of the neat features of the car and the app/connectivity. (That said, the rest of the vehicle was impressive enough that I got home from a vacation and ordered a 3, but... :D)
Keycard access is going to be super annoying, especially for people who own Teslas. Leaving the card in the car is going to be a common problem, and the lack of walk away locking and unlocking will cause problems. I understand why Hertz does this, if they didn't they would have to guarantee that their employees wipe each car every time it's returned. Given that Hertz keeps reporting their cars as stolen because they can't even log them in correctly you can't expect them to be able to clear the phone access from every cars that gets returned.
That is what Tesla was hoping you’d do. Congrats!
Thx. Not our first EV, so I'm pretty familiar with the pros and cons. Ability to go anywhere and the charging network was the final decider. That and the current price and tax credtis.
Loving the rainbow road on your display!
Nice test! Please do more of these!
an in-depth service screen video would be awesome!! upvoted!!
This is a realt useful test, look forward to se more of this. 😊
I think it is important to mention that the charging curve isn't necessarily locked to the percentage curve. I've seen this often with the LFP batteries that you plug in at 30, 50 or even higher % and the car will peak at 170kW. The higher the percentage, the shorter it will peak but it will.. That's for sure.
The 10% Challenge is legitimately useful! Based on this test result, an 80mph Tesla Model Y LR w/20" wheels can do 278 miles with a single 15 minutes charging stop.
On a road trip, people are going to set out with 100% State of Charge and maybe stretch themselves down the road to 10%. A single stop for 15 minutes to recharge and take a nature break would be identical in a gas car.
I'd guess that pretty much every Model Y competitor can do 275 miles +/- 25 miles based on this challenge (Full charge to 10% + 15 minutes charging).
Would be nice to see the Bz4x doing that 10% challenge!
I choose to do an 8% speed offset for the SSD bet settings in my dual motor long range model Y. That works out to be 81 mph out here in the west and Highway speed. The only issue I have with road trips in the southwest is that Many of the superchargers that I end up using our 150 kW and when going from one to another 150 kW charger the charging time can easily double if not two to half times increase. I keep reminding myself that today is the worst it will ever be and someday, there will be many more 250 kW chargers.
I hit 261kw max when charging starting at 10% with pre conditioning prior to getting at my super charger. Pretty crazy I thought. I have a 2023 MYP, picked it up late last month. The 10% rule is what I go by as well just incase I need to backtrack to another charger or go to a 3rd party charger. Kyle, you could have used my car for the demo in the NC area lol. The rainbow road is in the toy box options I believe to turn that feature off.
Please do a deep dive on Tesla Service mode!
I just rented a Model Y from Hertz this past weekend in Colorado; it it was also a long range w/ Induction wheels. White, though.
Great video of miles you got for a short charge with the model YLR .
Kudos to your job well done 👏.
Cool,test,looking forward to more
this test is a for sure a good idea
I think 80 mph is a good bench mark to start at. I live in KS, and when I’m on the freeway, I usually have it set to 85, but sometimes I’m not in a rush, and I’ll do 75. I feel like most people in this part of the country usually hang out around 80.
80mph seems reasonable in central US, but here on the east coast, speed limits are usually 55 or 65 mph and the faster traffic tends to go 75mph on average (there's always the occasional speedster ripping it at 90mph weaving through traffic down the NJ turnpike..)
I have a white model y 2022 long range aero wheels here in Arvada. Let me know if you want to do this sometimes. Just came back from a 1500 mile road trip to Kansas. About 8000k miles on the car. I definitely had a lot of wind going there. Range dropped a lot. Wouldn’t hurt to actually see the range drop with the wind as a different test so people know what to expect. The car adjusted itself by adding a charging stop due to the wind. I was going 80 but even slowing down with 30mph wind with gusts of 60mph didn’t help a whole lot to avoid the extra charger.
I'm excited for when you've done this test on many EVs and we can compare them all!
I would like to see the SR model 3 RWD on this challenge. This was a nice video. Should be a good series to watch.
Ok this is fantastic video ❤. Looking forward to many more. Maybe start an Excel graph to compare with other cars