The charging curve seems to be the LG 5L 79 kWh battery pack we are getting in Europe since a few years. This is definitely charging slower than the Panasonic 82 kWh pack from the new Model 3 Performance, and much slower than the old 75 kWh Panasonic pack from the classic Model 3 2017 to 2020.
my new model 3 LR (built in shanghai) uses a LG 79kwh battery pack i believe. it charges up to 256kw and tapers around 30%ish most of the time. but sometimes it caps around 200kw even 170kw with battery pack fully preconditioned, tried a couple of v3 superchargers in shanghai here all behaved the same. probably some firmware issue there.
@@The-Rest-of-Us I understand this is likely the ravings of a lunatic stockholder, but no copium on the planet should allow your mind to accept an argument that any concept "being taken seriously" results in deleting your old team before you have a new team in place. You show seriousness by incorporating continuity. The only thing serious about laying off the supercharger team is musk personally reaching for his tesla billions to cover his X disaster.
Phew… feeling pretty good about my 2023 RWD 😊. I’ve always felt that even though it has low peak speeds, its insane efficiency and decent curve make it a great road tripper. It barely slows my family down at all compared to ICE and is usually ready to continue the trip before us when we stop to charge.
I did this test on my 2022 LR Model 3 with 18" wheels last summer in FL. I got peak charging speeds and it added 36 kwh in 15 minutes. I drove 121 miles at 80 mph to get it back down to 10%.
My 2019 LR with Panasonic cells is still the fastest charging Model 3… quite odd indeed that Tesla did not improved charging time but instead worsen it
@@pqvid Nope. 2024 M3 get LG which is why they lose the tax credit. Tesla is saving the limited production of US Panasonic batteries for the Y and M3P. I'm not sure what they will do to throttle demand now that it seems everyone is switching their M3 LR orders to the M3P. Maybe another price bump to kick the M3P out of tax credit category until supply balances.
2024 M3 LR is using LG battery pack which I believe is 79kwh and should have 250kw peak charge rate according to Tesla site. 2023 M3 RWD uses CATL 60kwh battery pack. Tesla Model Y and Model 3 performance are using Panasonic 82kwh pack made in Nevada. Both my M3 Performance MY LR have better charging performance than the LG pack and will pull 250kw from about 10-25% before starting to taper and usually still pulling 115kw at 50%. While it’s still decent charging, I agree that Tesla needs to improve the charge curve.
You’re trying too hard. I see you posting all over social media. Your posts and empty nonsense just to get your post count up. Try meaningful replies. Oh by the way, thanks for stopping to pronounce city names since that has always been an issue.
Panasonic 2170s? Per Troy Teslike's Sep 13, 2023 X/Twitter post, the Austin-built Ys use Panasonic. That may explain the charging speed variance if Kyle/Andy's M3 uses LG 2170s.
Must be the new battery. Maybe still playing it safe as they collect data. My 2023 model Y LR consistently charges at 250kw up to roughly 28% before starting to taper.
I’ll take a slightly lower charging rate if it preserves the battery life. For a few extra minutes four or five times a year on road trips, it’s worth it to me.
I have a 2022 Model 3 Performance on 20” Aero wheels and the ultra efficient 235/35/20 Hankook iON EVO AS tires. I will run this test on it this week and see how it compares.
I've been thinking about this today after watching Brandon's 2024 MY video and now this. I think when looking at charging curve graphs, you should normalize the X axis to raw kWh and not percentages. Percentages are misleading. That's why marketing loves them.
Great video. I would like a test against a completely different charging station to rule out the grid location (I understand you tested different stalls). Next I would like to see results from another person's M3LR to make sure it isn't something isolated to this single instance.
My M3P 2023 does the same thing when charging. I’ve only tried supercharging 3 times but even with warm weather, preconditioning, and below 30% soc, it wouldn’t go above 130 kw at a 250kw charger. It dropped to around 92 kw after about 6 min.
Glad youre bringing awareness to this. I too am disappointed they got rid of their charging team when i was expecting things like this to improve drastically...i want road trips to get a lot better for my tesla vs just being a great local vehicle in Idaho
I just don't get people who think this is too slow, I just did a 2400 km road trip in Europe with my 2024 RWD M3, I never felt limited by charging time or the range, it was always wife's/kids bladder or hunger...
One thing. If you analyze these results statistically, I think there won't be any difference among some groups of cars e.g. 106 will be basically the same as 109 and 98. Of course it will be difficult to test 4 or more cars under the same conditions, the same day.
Yep, the LG 5L pack charging curve really disappoints. Actually that's what is currently holding me back from ordering the new (Shanghai built) M3P here in Germany as it also comes with this lame LG pack instead of the 82kWh Panasonic pack of the Freemont built cars. 🙁
I’m mostly happy with my 23 RWD, but I plan on trading in to the new M3P. Not just the performance, but I’m into how much quieter it is and obviously the AWD for inclement weather.
Tesla as fallen behind in charging speeds, like you said Kyle. Like the charging speed are okay but definitely not class leading, gotta wonder if this was part of the reason Tesla charger team got let go. Tesla could really use that Catl fast charging collaboration to bear fruit quickly. While I'm looking to buy the new model 3 performance or the Juniper Model Y, I wanna wait for the faster charging batteries to be put into all new Tesla vehicles, sure I'm not the only one that is waiting.
Thanks for another great video. Again I learned something new by watching these videos. I have always wondered if you could switch off the fan on one side or the other in the front seats. Sometimes my passenger wants the fan turned on and I don't want it in my driver's side. And now I just leaned to hold the fan on the screen to turn it off. Thx Im still a noob and learning from each video lol (from a Model 3 LR Highland owner)
My 2023 Model Y Fremont built will not start immediately at 255 under 10%, usually about 150kw till it hits 10%, or about 3 minutes depending on how much lower than 10% arrival at Supercharger.
Well, that cgarging behaviour is common for Model3 and Y in Europe for 3 years now. They are getting worse and worse in charging performance. 10%-80% was 20 minutes in 2019 models. 2021 with 3L batteries it dipped down to 25 minutes and now with LG it is 27minutes at best.
Yep, quite happy with my M3 LR 2019 with the good Panasonic cells, it still charges like a beast. Had a 2022 MY LR rental and was disappointed with the charging speed…
Matrix LEDs also solve this Auto High Beam problem in the EU. I hope we will see an 800V system in the next Model 3 and Y in the future. The charging curve looks similar to that of my 2022 Model 3 LR with an LG battery.
I wonder if this has the LG Chem pack? The LG packs are horribly slow in comparison to the Panasonic packs. But the upside is that rhey also tend to degrade a fair bit slower.
Need to ensure aero wheels or equivalent are installed, they affect the range by as much as 10%. If you'd had those on there, you might have done 110 miles and beat the M3 RWD. I have the 2023 RWD LFP, btw.
The 15 minutes charging should include the handshake times for a typical accessible charger. The 6 seconds on a Tesla charger is part of the Tesla performance profile compared to the rigmarole of using non-Tesla chargers (subject to any deterioration now they've fired the SC team!)
324 wh/mi is just terrible even at 80 mph. What tires were on that car? Tires can make a difference but it usually doesn’t help as much at higher speeds.
Question: Do you have any friends in the video game arena? Could you, Would you ask one of them to make an "Out of Spec racing game" based on ones y'all have already done. On PS4 or laptop computer? I would buy the game if you had it made.
Even Tesla tells you that this wheel and tire package is very inefficient. It’s rated for 305 miles with these wheels, but 341 miles with the 18” aero wheel and tire package. That’s an 11% hit just from wheels and tires, and according to those numbers, the car might be able to do 290 Wh/mi at 80 with the aeros.
"Try Full Self-Driving" - Tab to enable 😍 Would love to test it! First thing i will do, if it will be possible in Germany too. For me, its the worlds best car too, Kyle - gj job, as always 👍 Btw: I have nearly the same charging perfomance in my 03/2023 M3P - guess its the same pack here - good for lifetime protection
Similar charging curve on my model 3 highland LR AWD. I might be ~10kW higher at similar SoC levels. Looks like the LG pack does indeed charge more slowly.
It really is crazy. Their models only have lower class specs nowadays when it's about range and charging speed, their interior design and infotainment system is cheap and outdated and the Tesla charging network does not even support 800V vehicles yet...
And neither the looks! Dealbreaker for me is the looks of the Tesla, looking stale and boring now. It looks like a blob with ugly outdated tail lights. Tesla looks like an egg. Then u look at the interiors, and it's night and day compared to some other quality EVs. The tesla doesn’t even have a HUD or gauge clusters. What a boring cockpit to sit in. So plain Jane and no premium or special feeling.
According to Tesla, the 18" Aero wheels get an EPA max range of 341 miles, the 19" Nova wheels only get 305 miles. That's significant. My 2024 Model 3 LR with 18" wheels has averaged 221 kWh/mile over the first 1000 miles.
It charges the same like my 2023 Model Y from the giga berlin. at 50 % not more than 110 kW and at 55 below 100 kW. Would like a 20 / 25 min 10-80 charging time. other than that i like my Model Y. Looks like it is the LG 5L battery. Powertrain / Battery basically not different than the Model Y or a Model 3 from 2017 other than a slower chargin battery.
Have you done a test on the consumption difference between no autopilot, basic/enhanced autopilot and FSD. I mean its quite a few cameras rolling plus a powerful computer. The impact would also be greater at low speeds
The LG battery in the LR is 78.8 kWh and is indeed charging slower but it performs better in cold weather than its counterpart from Panasonic. And it degrades slower than the Panasonic one. Just look up the Tesla sold in Europe with LG battery vs the ones sold in USA with Panasonic battery. Now, there is a trade off indeed (faster charging vs better longevity), but let’s face it, 100 miles at 80 mph in 15 minutes of charge is pretty good. Compare 3.09 mi/kWh (the result of this test) with 2.4 mi/kWh of the Taycan and you’ll understand why there isn’t yet any car in the price range and configuration that compares to a Tesla. 23% efficiency difference is like driving the Tesla in winter to match the Taycan efficiency in summer. And of course, the Taycan is more expensive by at least 23% than the Tesla LR. And one last note : 51F for LR testing vs 77F of the RWD LFP and latest MY is not a fair comparison. From my experience, it is about 9% less efficiency between the two temperatures, which would put the LR above the RWD at the same temperature (109 miles). And put the LR on par with the best charging Tesla : MY RWD with software limited battery.
When temps dip below 70F most batteries start to lose range. Many cars also lose range when pushed to 80MPH, the M3 seems to hold it's efficiency at that speed. Great car for the money.
Okay so I am looking at my own numbers, 80 MPH speeds I am achieving 281 wh/mi on the LR AWD highland. So 44% of the pack would net ~123 miles of total range in similar conditions. Note I have the aero wheels.
Chill mode may be more efficient than sport (or beyond) because it won't have to keep the battery warmer (cooler) for optimal performance. May not matter unless it's very cold though.
Maybe on a M3P but not on a LR. Tesla doesn’t heat the battery to maintain baseline performance, my 22 M3LR routinely throttles performance in cold temps.
This is not a new battery. This is the LG battery Tesla uses since ages in Europe. It's just crap, low power output and low charging speed. That's why a lot of Europeans don't buy LR and P models as the LFPs are way better :D
The LG batter pack i have here in italy on my 2021 m3LR has the same Charging curve. Cant stay at 250 over 10%. They Never improved that side, i would have really liked a bump on the Charging speed. Usually it stays under 150 on 35/36% and at 27/28% if u start at 3%.
I have a 2022 model 3 LR that charges exactly like this. When I bought it I figured it would have the 82kw Panasonic pack but the Tessie app shows it only had 79kwh new so now I think it has the LG pack. Only goes above 250kw under 10% and under 100ish kw at 50%. Very disappointed in charging speeds vs the older packs and even compared to the two model 3 rwd LFP cars I’ve driven. I was under the impression that all 2021 m3p, 2022 m3 LR and newer got the 82kwh Panasonic pack here in the US. What’s everyone’s experience with the Panasonic 82kwh charge curve??
Hello, is it possible to have the data for the 10% challenge test for all the cars you did? In excel format? Maybe you have it in cloud so we can download it?
So far all signs point to the older LG 2170 cells from South Korea. I think Tesla's main goal with this upgrade was to keep the same price. I would have like to see front and rear castings for even more improvements to the NVH and chassis rigidity. And of course a new faster charging battery pack. But then they would have to raise prices.
Man, still waiting on the Silverado EV 10% Challenge numbers. As for the Highland's battery, it is possible that this is now running the NCMA cell chemistry that Tesla licensed from LG. If so, this could just be the initial, "good enough" charging profile before they fully unlock it. It's possible that the high-peak, steep-taper charging profile that Tesla has been using since the NCA days doesn't play well with the new chemistry, and they would instead be better off mimicking the charging profiles used in cars like E-GMP with a faster average charging speed (as opposed to the fastest possible peak).
It would be a pleasant surprise if they did go NCMA if they can refine the curve, from what I've heard NMCA should have slightly better lifespan, micro-cracking resistance and slightly higher peak temp limits, s should have at least moderately better DCFS characteristics compared to the NCA chemistry's I had been reading about in 2021 at least.
It's a pretty unequal test if you are pre-conditioning, many cars don't have this feature at all so they end up going further but would end up at the next charger with a theoretically poorer charging performance. The only way to get like for like would be to turn off pre-conditioning for all cars, that way they end up in the same charging condition.
I agree “sitting at a charging station” for more than 15 minutes could be annoying. My question to all the “sitters” out there: what are you doing? I rarely sit for even one minute. I get out of the car and go to the restroom or to a restaurant to eat. The car is always sufficiently charged before I return, so I just leave.
We walk into the host store for a BR Break and Grab & Go counter which usually is a little more than 15 minutes. We drive CCS so our chargers are farther apart than Tesla SuC so we generally charge to 80% on our Q8 etron which gives us 200 miles @ 80MPH. With the wife along we drive with extra buffer to make sure we get to the next charger.
@@deej628 Sure there are plenty of things you can do in your car while charging. But why sit when your car when stopped? That is a precious opportunity to stretch your legs and take care of business that you can’t do while driving for 8-12 hours to get to your destination. 8-12 hours is way to long to be sitting down already, I have no desire to add even more time sitting. For people that are forced to use superchargers for daily driving, instead of just for road trips, sure go ahead and watch a video, catch up on email, etc.
Something like 80% of the US has interstate speed limits of at least 70mph. If you don't think most people are going 80 in a 70 outside of congested city traffic? I think 80mph tests are very reasonable for the vast majority of viewers.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The charging curve seems to be the LG 5L 79 kWh battery pack we are getting in Europe since a few years. This is definitely charging slower than the Panasonic 82 kWh pack from the new Model 3 Performance, and much slower than the old 75 kWh Panasonic pack from the classic Model 3 2017 to 2020.
Once again, I'm happy a bought an older M3 LR. Turns out in addition to the USS I have a a better battery :)
my new model 3 LR (built in shanghai) uses a LG 79kwh battery pack i believe. it charges up to 256kw and tapers around 30%ish most of the time. but sometimes it caps around 200kw even 170kw with battery pack fully preconditioned, tried a couple of v3 superchargers in shanghai here all behaved the same. probably some firmware issue there.
My 2019 LR awd (Freemont Panasonic) charges faster than this....... Disappointing
Out of Spec doing such a public service with all these tests... thanks guys! 🙏
109% 👍❤️🔥🏆🏆🏆
"I hope Tesla takes charging seriously in 2024!" Tesla in 2024: Lays off the charging department.
They weren’t building fast enough
First thing I thought too
Sounds like they *are* taking it seriously (the old team clearly didn’t deliver…)
@@The-Rest-of-Us I understand this is likely the ravings of a lunatic stockholder, but no copium on the planet should allow your mind to accept an argument that any concept "being taken seriously" results in deleting your old team before you have a new team in place. You show seriousness by incorporating continuity. The only thing serious about laying off the supercharger team is musk personally reaching for his tesla billions to cover his X disaster.
@@robgeach8105 👍🏼
Phew… feeling pretty good about my 2023 RWD 😊. I’ve always felt that even though it has low peak speeds, its insane efficiency and decent curve make it a great road tripper. It barely slows my family down at all compared to ICE and is usually ready to continue the trip before us when we stop to charge.
0-60% in about 13 minutes and to 80% in ~23 mins. It charges so fast
Thanks, Andy!
Love the wheels you chose.
I did this test on my 2022 LR Model 3 with 18" wheels last summer in FL. I got peak charging speeds and it added 36 kwh in 15 minutes. I drove 121 miles at 80 mph to get it back down to 10%.
So about 240 mile real world
What about if you went 65 mph? How many miles would you get ?
@@bigpoppa4094 According to these nuts, 65MPH on a road trip isn't reasonable...🙄
@@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiryit just depends where, in the mountain west, it's definitely slow when speed limits are 75 ±
@@bigpoppa4094with this speed in Germany Cars will pass you like gunshots
Thanks Andy!
The battery is the LG, which has not been a great charging battery compared to the Panasonic.
I thought US made cars would still have Panasonic batteries? If not, then yes, LG has been a downgrade, actually.
@@pqvid Looks like starting with the new Model 3 refresh, they start using LG
My 2019 LR with Panasonic cells is still the fastest charging Model 3… quite odd indeed that Tesla did not improved charging time but instead worsen it
@@pqvid Nope. 2024 M3 get LG which is why they lose the tax credit. Tesla is saving the limited production of US Panasonic batteries for the Y and M3P. I'm not sure what they will do to throttle demand now that it seems everyone is switching their M3 LR orders to the M3P. Maybe another price bump to kick the M3P out of tax credit category until supply balances.
@@Mr21December2012 And it still doesn't feel like enough, does it?
I have the same one.
2024 M3 LR is using LG battery pack which I believe is 79kwh and should have 250kw peak charge rate according to Tesla site. 2023 M3 RWD uses CATL 60kwh battery pack. Tesla Model Y and Model 3 performance are using Panasonic 82kwh pack made in Nevada. Both my M3 Performance MY LR have better charging performance than the LG pack and will pull 250kw from about 10-25% before starting to taper and usually still pulling 115kw at 50%. While it’s still decent charging, I agree that Tesla needs to improve the charge curve.
Somehow I got a better result in the Model Y RWD (without software unlock for full pack)? This is quite surprising.
You’re trying too hard. I see you posting all over social media. Your posts and empty nonsense just to get your post count up. Try meaningful replies. Oh by the way, thanks for stopping to pronounce city names since that has always been an issue.
Panasonic 2170s? Per Troy Teslike's Sep 13, 2023 X/Twitter post, the Austin-built Ys use Panasonic. That may explain the charging speed variance if Kyle/Andy's M3 uses LG 2170s.
@@bsaxman2012yes
Panasonic FTW
Gotta love the RWD Model Y!
My new 2024 Austin built long range Model Y only charges at 250kw for just a minute or 2. My 2019 long range Model 3 holds 250kw for several minutes.
I took delivery of my refreshed M3 LR in March first EV. I absolutely love this car. It puts a smile on my face every time I go for a drive
Same man. I picked up mine in March too
👍
Must be the new battery. Maybe still playing it safe as they collect data. My 2023 model Y LR consistently charges at 250kw up to roughly 28% before starting to taper.
Hmmm. My Austin built 2023 MYLR starts to taper from 250 kW around 18%
What new battery?
@@sprockketsthere are some saying it’s an LG pack, not the Panasonic pack.
@@leanderzulu3494yes, you’re correct. 18% it falls off from 250kw, and mine stays above 200kw until around 28%. Sorry, typing too fast.
I’ll take a slightly lower charging rate if it preserves the battery life. For a few extra minutes four or five times a year on road trips, it’s worth it to me.
I have a 2022 Model 3 Performance on 20” Aero wheels and the ultra efficient 235/35/20 Hankook iON EVO AS tires. I will run this test on it this week and see how it compares.
I've been thinking about this today after watching Brandon's 2024 MY video and now this. I think when looking at charging curve graphs, you should normalize the X axis to raw kWh and not percentages. Percentages are misleading. That's why marketing loves them.
they should include the most important number, efficiency, kw/wh, in that graph to be fair
Great video. I would like a test against a completely different charging station to rule out the grid location (I understand you tested different stalls). Next I would like to see results from another person's M3LR to make sure it isn't something isolated to this single instance.
What sucks here is Tesla really hasn’t changed their battery charge rates on M3 since release in 2018.
Thank you Andy. Debating ordering this car so this was very insightful!!
I want 3 can’t afford 1
My M3P 2023 does the same thing when charging. I’ve only tried supercharging 3 times but even with warm weather, preconditioning, and below 30% soc, it wouldn’t go above 130 kw at a 250kw charger. It dropped to around 92 kw after about 6 min.
So glad my 2023 YLR doesnt have the new 4680 battery: a gift for shareholders, not for owners.
Glad youre bringing awareness to this. I too am disappointed they got rid of their charging team when i was expecting things like this to improve drastically...i want road trips to get a lot better for my tesla vs just being a great local vehicle in Idaho
The charging team was not responsible for rate of charge which is a limitation of the car not the charger.
I just don't get people who think this is too slow, I just did a 2400 km road trip in Europe with my 2024 RWD M3, I never felt limited by charging time or the range, it was always wife's/kids bladder or hunger...
Nice! Keep highland videos coming! Mega cool.
One thing. If you analyze these results statistically, I think there won't be any difference among some groups of cars e.g. 106 will be basically the same as 109 and 98. Of course it will be difficult to test 4 or more cars under the same conditions, the same day.
my 2023 Model 3 RWD LFP is only rated for 175kw. It'll get 200 right at the beginning, but quickly drops just like yours. maybe similar battery?
Yep, the LG 5L pack charging curve really disappoints.
Actually that's what is currently holding me back from ordering the new (Shanghai built) M3P here in Germany as it also comes with this lame LG pack instead of the 82kWh Panasonic pack of the Freemont built cars. 🙁
I had similarly less than great experience charging at that Buc-ee's(not getting max) two different times.
Thanks Andy, much appreciated. You the man.
I’m mostly happy with my 23 RWD, but I plan on trading in to the new M3P. Not just the performance, but I’m into how much quieter it is and obviously the AWD for inclement weather.
Tesla as fallen behind in charging speeds, like you said Kyle. Like the charging speed are okay but definitely not class leading, gotta wonder if this was part of the reason Tesla charger team got let go. Tesla could really use that Catl fast charging collaboration to bear fruit quickly. While I'm looking to buy the new model 3 performance or the Juniper Model Y, I wanna wait for the faster charging batteries to be put into all new Tesla vehicles, sure I'm not the only one that is waiting.
Thanks for another great video. Again I learned something new by watching these videos. I have always wondered if you could switch off the fan on one side or the other in the front seats. Sometimes my passenger wants the fan turned on and I don't want it in my driver's side. And now I just leaned to hold the fan on the screen to turn it off. Thx Im still a noob and learning from each video lol (from a Model 3 LR Highland owner)
Performance will do 255 from 10 to likely 38% I have the same Panasonic's and I love them for road tripping, even when pulling a small tent trailer.
Yesterday in Cary, NC, I spotted a Model Y with the license plate WTHNSPEC. Clearly, you have a fan here!
My 2023 Model Y Fremont built will not start immediately at 255 under 10%, usually about 150kw till it hits 10%, or about 3 minutes depending on how much lower than 10% arrival at Supercharger.
When you’re narrating during the drive you sounded like a sports game commentator 😅 great video 👍
Well, that cgarging behaviour is common for Model3 and Y in Europe for 3 years now. They are getting worse and worse in charging performance.
10%-80% was 20 minutes in 2019 models. 2021 with 3L batteries it dipped down to 25 minutes and now with LG it is 27minutes at best.
Yep, quite happy with my M3 LR 2019 with the good Panasonic cells, it still charges like a beast.
Had a 2022 MY LR rental and was disappointed with the charging speed…
Matrix LEDs also solve this Auto High Beam problem in the EU. I hope we will see an 800V system in the next Model 3 and Y in the future. The charging curve looks similar to that of my 2022 Model 3 LR with an LG battery.
Also charging slows on the new y if you are watching you tube videos or air conditioning at a higher speed
I wonder if this has the LG Chem pack? The LG packs are horribly slow in comparison to the Panasonic packs. But the upside is that rhey also tend to degrade a fair bit slower.
is there a video like this for the 2024 Model 3 *RWD*? I got one a month ago and am planning a road trip in a few months
Need to ensure aero wheels or equivalent are installed, they affect the range by as much as 10%. If you'd had those on there, you might have done 110 miles and beat the M3 RWD. I have the 2023 RWD LFP, btw.
VIN doesn't start with LRW (built at Giga Shanghai). LRW uses LG. How to know if this car has the LG pack?
Time to test the Leaf Plus on its last year of production
The 15 minutes charging should include the handshake times for a typical accessible charger. The 6 seconds on a Tesla charger is part of the Tesla performance profile compared to the rigmarole of using non-Tesla chargers (subject to any deterioration now they've fired the SC team!)
Thank You Andy for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste
🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊
Who is Andy?
One of many thorough informative excellent video u kick azs
Thanks Kyle and Andy
324 wh/mi is just terrible even at 80 mph. What tires were on that car? Tires can make a difference but it usually doesn’t help as much at higher speeds.
Question: Do you have any friends in the video game arena? Could you, Would you ask one of them to make an "Out of Spec racing game" based on ones y'all have already done. On PS4 or laptop computer? I would buy the game if you had it made.
Even Tesla tells you that this wheel and tire package is very inefficient. It’s rated for 305 miles with these wheels, but 341 miles with the 18” aero wheel and tire package. That’s an 11% hit just from wheels and tires, and according to those numbers, the car might be able to do 290 Wh/mi at 80 with the aeros.
I’m really interested in external battery pack options, If I could put another 50KWH pack in my cargo trailer I could do all my towing with my model Y
"Try Full Self-Driving" - Tab to enable 😍
Would love to test it! First thing i will do, if it will be possible in Germany too.
For me, its the worlds best car too, Kyle - gj job, as always 👍
Btw: I have nearly the same charging perfomance in my 03/2023 M3P - guess its the same pack here - good for lifetime protection
LG batteries just do not charge as quick as Panasonic but rumour has it less battery degradation than the Pan batteries.
Tesla Model 3 RWD LFP (2023) did better at 106 miles!
That is why this is one of the best road trip tests.
I've read that the models that have the Panasonic battery pack charge be than the LGs
Thanks Andy!! I will think about you when I barbeque today
Similar charging curve on my model 3 highland LR AWD. I might be ~10kW higher at similar SoC levels. Looks like the LG pack does indeed charge more slowly.
In Los Angeles on every corner? Bit of a stretch observation for such a numbers driven channel.
Anywho, thank you Andy 🎈
Kinda crazy that tesla hasn't improved charging for the last 6 years.
Guess you failed physics.
It really is crazy. Their models only have lower class specs nowadays when it's about range and charging speed, their interior design and infotainment system is cheap and outdated and the Tesla charging network does not even support 800V vehicles yet...
It’s gotten worse.
@@beerman1957 failed physics? What are you even talking about?
And neither the looks!
Dealbreaker for me is the looks of the Tesla, looking stale and boring now. It looks like a blob with ugly outdated tail lights. Tesla looks like an egg. Then u look at the interiors, and it's night and day compared to some other quality EVs. The tesla doesn’t even have a HUD or gauge clusters. What a boring cockpit to sit in. So plain Jane and no premium or special feeling.
My 2024 Model 3 LR gets the full 250kW (~248kW) when supercharging at lower SOC.
According to Tesla, the 18" Aero wheels get an EPA max range of 341 miles, the 19" Nova wheels only get 305 miles. That's significant. My 2024 Model 3 LR with 18" wheels has averaged 221 kWh/mile over the first 1000 miles.
It charges the same like my 2023 Model Y from the giga berlin. at 50 % not more than 110 kW and at 55 below 100 kW.
Would like a 20 / 25 min 10-80 charging time. other than that i like my Model Y.
Looks like it is the LG 5L battery.
Powertrain / Battery basically not different than the Model Y or a Model 3 from 2017 other than a slower chargin battery.
Do the 10% challenge on the model s plaid and your old model 3 performance
Thanks Andy for your M3 loan.
I like this data. Its a great comparison
My 2016 Model s 90D has a similar charging curve to this. Crazy!
Ping me, got the Highland on the 18” wheels. Live close to your new fav supercharger.
Have you done a test on the consumption difference between no autopilot, basic/enhanced autopilot and FSD. I mean its quite a few cameras rolling plus a powerful computer. The impact would also be greater at low speeds
The LG battery in the LR is 78.8 kWh and is indeed charging slower but it performs better in cold weather than its counterpart from Panasonic. And it degrades slower than the Panasonic one. Just look up the Tesla sold in Europe with LG battery vs the ones sold in USA with Panasonic battery. Now, there is a trade off indeed (faster charging vs better longevity), but let’s face it, 100 miles at 80 mph in 15 minutes of charge is pretty good.
Compare 3.09 mi/kWh (the result of this test) with 2.4 mi/kWh of the Taycan and you’ll understand why there isn’t yet any car in the price range and configuration that compares to a Tesla. 23% efficiency difference is like driving the Tesla in winter to match the Taycan efficiency in summer. And of course, the Taycan is more expensive by at least 23% than the Tesla LR.
And one last note : 51F for LR testing vs 77F of the RWD LFP and latest MY is not a fair comparison. From my experience, it is about 9% less efficiency between the two temperatures, which would put the LR above the RWD at the same temperature (109 miles). And put the LR on par with the best charging Tesla : MY RWD with software limited battery.
When temps dip below 70F most batteries start to lose range. Many cars also lose range when pushed to 80MPH, the M3 seems to hold it's efficiency at that speed. Great car for the money.
Okay so I am looking at my own numbers, 80 MPH speeds I am achieving 281 wh/mi on the LR AWD highland. So 44% of the pack would net ~123 miles of total range in similar conditions. Note I have the aero wheels.
Chill mode may be more efficient than sport (or beyond) because it won't have to keep the battery warmer (cooler) for optimal performance. May not matter unless it's very cold though.
Maybe on a M3P but not on a LR. Tesla doesn’t heat the battery to maintain baseline performance, my 22 M3LR routinely throttles performance in cold temps.
@@ouch1011 ah right, that could be the case, yes. Thanks! 👍
26:00 can you add ioniq 5 to the list as well? Both 20" and 19" ones.
I thought I heard somewhere that the battery in the tax credit model 3 is different than the battery in the non-tax credit model 3.
I love all the changes in the new 3. Hopefully, Tesla does everything the same for a new Y!!
When do we get to see the refreshed Performance test drive? I want to know your impressions on handling and braking. World class this time, or no?
Can you make a comparison between USS and the terrible Vision Only system? It’s still so so bad imho.
This is one I’ve been waiting for,still no Matrix headlights in the US?,thanks guys ,cheers Andy 👍💪😉
Thanks for watching!
Has the regulation prohibiting them changed?
@@BillyONealnot sure as I’m in Europe
If you’re in Austin, Texas in the near future, you can review mine with the 18” photon wheels.
Did you check tyre pressure before starting the test? should be 42 min when cold if it was anything below it then it would affect range.
If new battery, they could had purposely derated charging and increase in software update after they have more data.
Needs 800 V improvements 😅
This is not a new battery. This is the LG battery Tesla uses since ages in Europe. It's just crap, low power output and low charging speed. That's why a lot of Europeans don't buy LR and P models as the LFPs are way better :D
It’s not a new battery. Identical to the battery already used in older Model 3s from the last year or so in the US and longer in Europe.
The tires are also all weather tires. A set of pure summer tires give better range as well.
Um, why?
Magic dock is very apple style naming from tesla lol
thank you, Andy!!!!
what happened to the rest of the truck videos?
My 2018 model 3 maintains 150kw+ until 50%… keep up the improvements tesla
Is there a link to the data?
Andy is amazing ❤
Looking forward to your M3P test next.
The LG batter pack i have here in italy on my 2021 m3LR has the same Charging curve.
Cant stay at 250 over 10%.
They Never improved that side, i would have really liked a bump on the Charging speed.
Usually it stays under 150 on 35/36% and at 27/28% if u start at 3%.
13 : 44 early lunch sports were model 3 highland should have a M3P battery
Early reports were
I have a 2022 model 3 LR that charges exactly like this. When I bought it I figured it would have the 82kw Panasonic pack but the Tessie app shows it only had 79kwh new so now I think it has the LG pack. Only goes above 250kw under 10% and under 100ish kw at 50%. Very disappointed in charging speeds vs the older packs and even compared to the two model 3 rwd LFP cars I’ve driven. I was under the impression that all 2021 m3p, 2022 m3 LR and newer got the 82kwh Panasonic pack here in the US. What’s everyone’s experience with the Panasonic 82kwh charge curve??
Hello, is it possible to have the data for the 10% challenge test for all the cars you did?
In excel format? Maybe you have it in cloud so we can download it?
So far all signs point to the older LG 2170 cells from South Korea. I think Tesla's main goal with this upgrade was to keep the same price. I would have like to see front and rear castings for even more improvements to the NVH and chassis rigidity. And of course a new faster charging battery pack. But then they would have to raise prices.
Can you please send a link to the statistics?
I am down on Tesla right now. Tainted.
P.S. Love my Out of Spec t-shirt!
Man, still waiting on the Silverado EV 10% Challenge numbers. As for the Highland's battery, it is possible that this is now running the NCMA cell chemistry that Tesla licensed from LG. If so, this could just be the initial, "good enough" charging profile before they fully unlock it. It's possible that the high-peak, steep-taper charging profile that Tesla has been using since the NCA days doesn't play well with the new chemistry, and they would instead be better off mimicking the charging profiles used in cars like E-GMP with a faster average charging speed (as opposed to the fastest possible peak).
It would be a pleasant surprise if they did go NCMA if they can refine the curve, from what I've heard NMCA should have slightly better lifespan, micro-cracking resistance and slightly higher peak temp limits, s should have at least moderately better DCFS characteristics compared to the NCA chemistry's I had been reading about in 2021 at least.
It's a pretty unequal test if you are pre-conditioning, many cars don't have this feature at all so they end up going further but would end up at the next charger with a theoretically poorer charging performance. The only way to get like for like would be to turn off pre-conditioning for all cars, that way they end up in the same charging condition.
Aren’t they “throttling” the CT’s new battery pack? There will probably be a SW update soon.
I agree “sitting at a charging station” for more than 15 minutes could be annoying. My question to all the “sitters” out there: what are you doing? I rarely sit for even one minute. I get out of the car and go to the restroom or to a restaurant to eat. The car is always sufficiently charged before I return, so I just leave.
Watch UA-cam? Catch up on work? Call a friend/family member? Play a game? There’s tons of things you could do to pass the time.
We walk into the host store for a BR Break and Grab & Go counter which usually is a little more than 15 minutes. We drive CCS so our chargers are farther apart than Tesla SuC so we generally charge to 80% on our Q8 etron which gives us 200 miles @ 80MPH. With the wife along we drive with extra buffer to make sure we get to the next charger.
it seems most people go and eat junk food, thereby negating any savings…😮
@@deej628 Sure there are plenty of things you can do in your car while charging. But why sit when your car when stopped? That is a precious opportunity to stretch your legs and take care of business that you can’t do while driving for 8-12 hours to get to your destination. 8-12 hours is way to long to be sitting down already, I have no desire to add even more time sitting.
For people that are forced to use superchargers for daily driving, instead of just for road trips, sure go ahead and watch a video, catch up on email, etc.
Please do the 70 mph test on the Model 3 RWD Long Range. I’m dying to see if that thing is gonna hit over 400 miles to a charge.
Strange charging curve... I own a standard range 2024 Model 3 (RWD) and I can get the specified charging power (175 kW) for a 10 to 20% SoC battery.
Nowhere in the East Coast we can do 80mph . This test doesn't represent half the country . Maybe Out of spec Dave can do the test at 65 mph
hogwash.
East Coast resident, and I do 80mph every day. Are you talking about road signs, or what people actually do?
Something like 80% of the US has interstate speed limits of at least 70mph. If you don't think most people are going 80 in a 70 outside of congested city traffic? I think 80mph tests are very reasonable for the vast majority of viewers.
Lol, I had to drive at 65mph to conserve range, and so did a random Rivian truck behind me 😅