Post Office Scandal gets even MORE Scandalous. Oppressive Interviews that'll make your blood boil.
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Warning: You might need your blood pressure medicine for this one. Even if you didn't have high blood pressure before.
Do you know where the Riot Act was first read? Watch and find out.
Mr Bates vs The Post Office; the real story. If anything it's even worse.
Disclaimer: Neither this nor any other video, may be taken as legal advice. I accept no liability whatever for any reliance placed upon it, as there is no contract between us and I am not instructed by you. And anyway, as far as the Post Office is concerned, if you speak to a lawyer you'll go down for breaching the Official Secrets Act.
Founded by Alan Robertshaw and BlackBeltBarrister
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🦉🐯 Paula Vennells, who served as Post Office CEO from 2012 to 2019, ran this firm whilst it routinely denied there were problems with its Horizon IT system, she knew the issues and she lied, even “stealing” sub-postmasters personal money to “cover” their loses, and imprisoning innocent people, people, real people! The ones that are responsible have to face prison themselves, Paula Vennells needs to be on trial! As for (in one case) the PO lawyers being awarded £321,000 by a judge for costs, well I doubt someone representing themselves get such an “award”.
Adam cozier was in charge before her when the investigations, prosecutions and the crimes (committed by the Post Office) took place.
That's a shocking level of costs against an unrepresented party.
A computer experts report in 2003 identified serious issues with Horizon, which the PO hushed up, but that means no-one senior at the PO could not be aware of the issues.
Don't ignore Adam Crozier, CEO from 2003 - 2010! I'll bet his fingerprints are all over this scandal....
Lawyers are only interested in two things - winning and money - sorry three things - and making up bullsh*t to try to get reduced sentences/ or even scot-free where serious crime is concerned. Those lawyers won't be made to pay back the money they were paid - but they should be, just like Vennels and her minions all should be made to pay back their huge bonuses and pay-offs.
I'm so angry about this, my friends mum committed suicide, and then my friend did too. Why has this taken so long!!!! Are they hoping all of these people may be dead before they get justice!!!?
I don't think they get paid out if there dead which is wrong. If they had children they would be affected for the last 20 years or more
So, if there is a term in a contract that says you cannot consult a lawyer, is that not an unfair contract term and thus unenforceable?
The judge did spend a bit of time talking about UCTA; but in essence, yes. I will probably do a vid going into more detail about judgement at a later date. It was the interview rules that really jumped out at me though so I just wanted to do a quick vid focusing on that.
Such an outrageous contract should never be signed. It would never hold up in court, but why go through all the trouble of going to court? Just don't sign it, and seek legal advice up front.
Indeed, it is an illegal unfair contract. None of these contractual terms is legally enforceable. The problem is that many people are unaware of the unfair contracts act and how it works. Also, that you may get a fool of a judge who tends to side with the Establishment.
@@Sotto_yes but if one did not sign the contract one would not get the position
@mollienightCrozier was Royal Mail. Post Office Limited is a separate organisation
Very interesting - and blood-pressure raising. It's shocking that Post Office prevented the people they were accusing from defending themselves. I can't believe that this is lawful...
It is noteworthy that these were the actions of an organisation led by a Church Minister. And a manifestation (not) of the 'Christian values' David Cameron lied to the British population, as having come to pass under his stewardship; of the nation...
He of the 'Greensill' lobbying for money scandal. And Foreign Minister of the Sunak dictator regime. Taking the opportunity belatedly, to reverse the people's will over 'Brexit'.
It isn't. They've driven a coach and horses through Human Rights legislation, and I don't see how this company can be allowed to continue, particularly given it's shareholders are the Government.
Manchester Court of Appeal have rejected an appeal made by the spouse of a now deceased postmaster affected by this scandal against her conviction. The Post Office shamefully opposed the appeal. Given the success of so many appeals against convictions, I wonder if you could provide some assessment as to the Court's reasoning.
What obligation did they have to engage with the post office investigation team? If you consulted your lawyer outside the physical meetings, would they not advise you to say nothing and refuse any meetings given the unfair practices? At the court itself they must surely have been unable to stop you being represented?
The problem is the corporate "investigation bullies" aim is to scare the sh*t out of their victims, and do anything to make them agree - just as we are hearing from some of those victims.
They were genuinely afraid of receiving criminal records especially when they knew they had not fiddled the books.
The shows that the Post Office wasn't interested in the truth but only interested in prosecuting those it deemed to be guilty. They'd have saved themselves so much trouble if they'd bothered to investigate fairly and properly.
Why would they do that when taking all this money off the sub-postmasters meant they got big bonuses?
i am astounded to hear that these where private prosecutions and that the victims where not allowed lawyers and at the same time
the PO had legal assistance, every single case should berescinded
A guy with my own priorities. Doesn't have a telly and a yellow-sticker searcher in the supermarkets 🙂
The media seems to think or at least act as though it alone broke the whole scandal to the fore, when in reality it should have broken the story in the first place. Whatever happened to investigative journalism? If at least one journalist or one court reporter was awake they would have spotted a problem.
Private Eye have been regularly reporting on the Post Office's problems with Horizon for more than 20 years, but virtually none of the mainstream media took the slightest bit of notice until now.
Well, BBC Panorama did expose the story in 2015 in the teeth of denials, threats & coercion from the Post Office. The video of that Panorama programme is available here on UA-cam. It's called 'trouble at the Post Office'
One of the trade papers "Computing" I believe covered the story in 2011(?) and "Private Eye" regularly had articles from about the same time, if you search UA-cam for Ian Hislop editor of "Private Eye" he talks about their reporting.
Even Computer Weekly didn't release its first report until May 2009. It then ran so many issues with pieces on the scandal that there a too many to include here in a YT comment reply. Private Eye first ran a piece in 2011 and regularly thereafter. The mainstream media seem to think that nothing happened until the Toby Jones TV story on it.
I have not watched it as I do not have a TV. Followed it for years on radio 4
You can always catch up on ITV's on demand service - no T.V. licence required (as of yet!).
Like so many, this has made my blood boil. And they gave that woman a CBE!
So 'they' could light a bonfire perhaps, over taking it away?
@@jonathanlewis453 You don't need to light a bonfire, just contact the Cabinet Office. There is a whole load about it on the gov.uk website.
I once did a research project on contract law and some senior public sector lawyers told me that if something within a contract is unfair then it is unenforceable, even if you've signed it. Most people believe that if you sign something then you are liable no matter how absurd the terms of the contract, but that just isn't true.
That would fall under the unfair contract terms act but these would fall outside the remit of those provisions.
In my role as an "expert witness" and engineering software developer, I can tell you that it is 100% possible to find all the bugs in the Horizon software that ran on the post office users' systems.
And once the bugs have been found, it is also 100% possible to determine EXACTLY how much each PO user account has been ripped off by, as every single transaction was recorded (logged).
Once every single incorrect transaction has been logged, and tallied up with relevant phone call records, where users discussed issues, it'll be possible to prove guilt. Kind of obvious already, but hey.
Then show how much suffering each user had to endure.
The world is becoming more and more technical, and sadly our political rulers are becoming more and more misinformed, relying on 'trusted" technical sources who IMO are not to be trusted.
Always use peer reviewed sources of technical reference, not "mates" who you think you can trust on technical matters.
That’s really sound advice.
My understanding is that the software was also vulnerable to unruly & uncontrolled hardware faults such as power & network cables being accidentally unplugged. I gather that disk defragging wasn't commonly done so disk errors & long read/write times causing software timeouts was also a possibility. All these events were ephemeral & their trail has long gone cold. This is in addition to the actual software bugs which can still be recognised in the original code & whose effects can still be assessed as you say.
The Police & Criminal Evidence Act was amended in 1999 to allow Computer evidence to be accepted unchallenged in Court cases. After that amendment the burden of proof was on the defendant to prove himself innocent. An Article in The Barrister of 24th April 2024 referencing an article dated 21st February 2023 by Barrister is instructive on this topic.
There are a lot of people need to see jail time.
How do we stop such practices and behaviour ever happening again?
You cant prevent it happening again.
become luddites and get rid of all this tech nonsense
Another thing that came out during these interviews was when a post-master challenged the integrity of the Horizon system and said it was faulty. The interviewers/investigators than said to the post-master "if you think it's faulty show us your proof" as though that one individual , with no access to date logs and other vital information, could ever do such a thing.
I wonder if things like that still go on today in other organisations? I believe GBnews apparently are looking into the CMS but haven’t published until all legalities have been checked. They stated that last Thursday around 9pm as to why they hadn’t shown their article that night. Perhaps there is another one then.
Another lovely place with fab history, thank you. I am troubled by those employees of the Post Office who conceived of and carried out such conditions and interviews, and those who used the 'evidence' to pursue the actions taken. Without strong fair oversight all manner of atrocities are possible. 😊
Agreed. The people who carried out the "interviews" on behalf of the Post Office have no morals or ethics. They should be named and shamed.
Don’t forget to sign the petition:
“Strip CBE from Paula Vennells due to miscarriage of justice under her leadership”
Cases where a body both investigates and prosecutes offences it has a vested or pecuniary interest in are always fraught with risk. BBC (TV Licensing) and RSPCA prosecutions immediately spring to mind, both of which have been conducted under very dubious circumstances.
If my memory serves me correctly; I heard a report of a post office area manager advising a sub postmaster / mistress , advising to cover discrepancies and it would sort itself out over time . From that report I knew that the whole thing was a right mess up, starting with Fujitsu. I am too angry to wind myself even more by watching the TV program. The whole thing is appalling and still not properly sorted.
You should force yourself to watch it. This could be a foresight into what could happen if the government cancel cash and adopt the Central Bank Digital Currency. Let's face it, they can't even run a Post Office.
Can not wait for the series to be over, to hear what you have to say. Like you I don't watch TV, but followed developments in the news.
Would love you, or even you and Dan, to do a detailed piece on the post office scandal, if these new fraud investigations don't prevent that. It would be definitely "vaguely interesting". Just watched the ITV show in Aus (thanks NordVPN) and also was getting snippy watching it.
I've heard very good things about the TV drama. I think Toby Jones is such a brilliant actor. But just reading the judgment had my hackles up. Judges tend to write in very dispassionate language. But you can really tell he's thinking "wish we still had hanging"
vaguely interesting indeed
@@KravKernow
Sounds like a good program. I'll have to look it up.
Ah yes, the Beerwolf pub in Falmouth, a pub, a listed building, bookshop, library and groovy clientele. Great range of beers in a unique eccentric capsule hidden away in the centre of Falmouth. Flock to it now or be sorry.
Why? It's not about to be sold and shortly after suffer an 'unexpected' fire by any chance?
The Post Office is like the RSPCA. They both can raise private criminal prosecutions. I know individuals can do too, however the two organisations have pretty much carte blanche as opposed to individuals who have to go through the proper processes. Both organisation however have been abusing their right. The RSPCA prosecuting people for the most minor cases and sometimes even purely maliciously. And now the Post Office. Just like the police who abused section 44 of the Terrorism Act so much that it had to repealed, these two organisations should lose their prosecution abilities. They've shot themselves in the foot by going too far and letting the power go their heads.
Apparently since 2015 they don’t do their own prosecutions. It’s all in the hands of the CPS now. They can’t have that power revoked though as under Section 6 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985 anyone can bring a private prosecution.
@@flipperth1don't they have a stronger right that the CPS cannot intervene in? That's my understanding.
A Friend of mine is a solicitor and in his career has prosecuted hundreds of cases on behalf of the RSPCA. I'm sure he would be delighted to speak with you and refute your rather nasty comment. The RSPCA may only bring prosecutions before Magistrates on its own behalf and do not act maliciously in any case. Unlike the Post Office which was established Centuries before Police Forces were even thought of, the RSPCA may not normally act as its own prosecutorial entity beyond Magistrates Courts. For that they need the consent of the CPS.
@@hairyairey Mostly because the Royal Mail was established in the 17th Century, Police services did not appear until the mid 19th Century. Their's is a legacy power which needs removing.
@@petergaskin1811 Exactly this, although of course the Police do not prosecute the Crown Prosecution Service does - and can still stop Post Office prosecutions if it's in the "public interest" to do so.
Anything less than £10 million for each victim is a travesty.
How did Fujitsu get away with this??
They pressured Tony Blair to force the Post Office to accept the Horizon IT software even though they knew it was full of bugs. Hopefully they won’t get away with it in the end.
One of the problems that Post Office management has always faced is that they've never employed managers with any imagination. It's a legacy of their Civil Service origins. It's also a major weakness that was identified by the Postmaster General in 1983. He ran a major graduate recruitment exercise in an attempt to recruit future senior managers who could think outside the box. He needed managers who could recognise that systems like HORIZON could, potentially, make mistakes. Of course, the Civil Service unions put the kibosh on the Postmaster General's recruitment offers (my offer included), so the Post Office continues to be run by people who blindly follow the official line. No-one would ever think to ask common sense questions. It is astounding, but this is also why government Civil Service is such a mess. Unquestioning servants is what Civil Service recruitment is intended to provide.
Excellent assessment of the situation, thanks
This shutting down of witnesses in interview and preventing 'legal representation' is a practice I experienced with B&Q. My friend was wrongly accused of theft ( an employee) and the case contained a poorly consructed lie to 'add' to the allegation. ( I know it was a lie as I was present during and throughout the alleged event) . Short outcome the case went to tribunal and subsequently agreed to settle. The 'blood boiling' part was that the literal intimidation (and unfair employment contract) to prevent defendant representation was actually a contradiction to there own code of conduct, ACAS guidence and ultimatley employment law. Contracts containing unlawful clauses and unfair practices are rife. This practice remains unchecked. (until a good lawyer is willing to challenge in court- on a case by case basis) . I wonder who would be the right goverment department to 'right the wrongs' on this national epidemic ...
Fascinating as
Always, thank you. Love your videos
Comes to something when private company has ability to remove basic human rights from its employees. One for European Court of Human Rights, which incidentally the current gov’t wanted to abandon. Thisplace gets more like the wild west every year 😢
love it, really interesting info and also what an historic location to film in.
More and more in the United States, corporations are putting in arbitration and bypassing our courts of law, and they choose the arbitrators, so of course, there is a conflict of interest, we need regulation so that everyone gets their day in court! - and congrats not having a telly!
At least in the US you have the 4th, 5th and 6th Constitutional Amendments.
That's disgusting
It's very enlightening. Thank you . 🤔
It's strange that the police only take action on TV dramas
I have been angry about the public apathy about this for a long time but now it’s been highlighted in a docusoap the sheep are awake and bahing for blood….about time. We need charges to be brought to an unknown number of employees or appointees from those who knew and said and did nothing and took a wage and possibly took hush money yet to be proved but we need company directors to know they could be held responsible for evil deeds so we need to make an example of the post office and Fujitsu employees
In the US, I think, that is what they like to refer to as "Going Postal"!
This scandal has taught us all how effin useless our system of chaos is... It's one big assembly line of rubber stamping what the previous stooge says ... Judges listening to lawyers listening to police officers listening to rent a cop investigators listening to stupid computer reports. Baloney, the lot!!!
Love the vaguely [is that spelt right?] articles you post, again.
Thanks Al
I always wondered where the statement, "He read them the Riot Act" when someone gets a real talking to, came from.
This can only go to the Supreme Court now. Constitutional rights have been flouted wholesale, and to quote the Act annulling the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, make these convictions "as if they had never been", which is all very well, but retroactive legislation is banned under the Human Rights Act. There are precedents for compensation under incorrect conviction, yet now we learn HMRC have been skinning the victims of the vast bulk of their compensation, and are now trying to extort the Post Office too.
I've watched a couple of the enquiry examinations of two if the investigators concerned, Mathews and Bradshaw. My thoughts on them can be put into two words, "overwhelming incompetence"! Add into that, particularly with Bradshaw is liar and bully! They both state they just did interviews and passed them up. No actual investigations in to the possibility of faults with Horizon, no interviews with Fujitsu staff and no cross referencing cases with other investigators. Their joint defence is no more than "It wasn't me, big boys did it and ran away!" Pathetic! documents were signed without being read, data was analysed when they weren't trained Ito analyse it and the phrase, " I passed it to someone who's name I can't remember and never saw it again, until I signed it."
I've since found out they got bonus payments for the prosecutions, paid for with money "recovered" from the Post Office staff they prosecuted! So hardly impartial. All round a complete disgrace.
Unfair contract terms
So if someone lost their house will they be compensated in line with the house price index to put them back in the position they would have been if not forced to sell?
Is it legal for a contract to be so restrictive?
VERY interesting, as usual. Thank you so much -- and I love that pub!!! :)
Great channel. Thank you.
As usual an incredibly insightful video. I'm new to the channel but I'm enjoying the content very much. I start my Bachelor of Laws (Hons) on 3rd Feb so appreciate you sharing your knowledge very much, thank you.
Good luck. I wish you every success!
Thank you for watching! And good luck with the LLB. You'll love it! I look forward to you soon commenting "Well, you got that wrong for a start..." 😀
@@margaretnicol3423 Thank you. I'm very excited to get stuck in.
@coachhousechambers2047 Thank you. I think it will be a while before I can make such bold statements. Until then I will soak up the knowledge like the proverbial sponge.
How did the post office become the gestapo?the people involded in this nasty affair need prison time
Unless you have signed the official secrets act you are not bound by it.
As an ex regulator this is wrong on so many levels, certain regulators including the HSE have powers to conduct similar interviews, however when it relates to individuals when they may have broken the law they have to switch to a PACE type interview etc
Everyone seems to be playing "Hot potato" on this one. Haven't watched the dramatisation. This has rolled on for way too long. Can interest be added to totals? Their money was somewhere 🤔
Will Adam Crozier be giving evidence at the enquiry?
was it all deliberate so they offer an even worse solution?
PACE doesnt apply ? Is the postmaster contract enforceable (natural justice ?)
Those T's & C's sound like standard UK Public Service internal disciplinary rules which explain the Secrets Act etc.
Fun fact 2, Fujitsu provided IT support to the Trade Department that had responsibility for the Post Office.
I find it interesting that Post Office is the focus of attention for this scandal, whilst during the same time it was a GoCo, with Ministers being quite closely with its operations, for example pissing around with its pension scheme etc...
Hi Mr Robershaw, I have to say that I am very confused by this case. Notwithstanding what you have said about the appalling way the 'suspects' were interviewed, was it not presided over by a judge?
Was the finding in fact information/data store by a computer system? How does a judge find in the Post Office's favour on the basis of such sketchy evidence? -having worked in IT, I can assure you that it is highly likely that information on a complex system whose requirements were heavily modified along the way is unreliable (an interestingly I believe it was a journalist working for Computer Weekly that put 2 and 2 together).
Also the Post Office is a state-owed private company, on what basis/grounds did any Court allow evidence gathered in such an egregious manner to be submissible?
I am interested in the culpability of the Justice system in this miscarriage of justice and national scandal.
Yeah. In essence (and I believe the TV drama and radio series go into a lot more detail) one bloke, Mr Bates said I don't give a **** about what the PO says about no lawyers, I'm suing *you*. And thats when all this came to light. The judge was very unimpressed with the PO so Mr Bates won and that's what kicked off all the current investigations.
Ultimately yes, not but not before 700 people had been convicted.
I really like the fact that this one individual defied the overwhelming odds against him.
@@drof7006 There's a really good case about a lady suing the gas board for harassment. The judge opens with a statement like that. I'll try and do a vid on it.
As an I.T. guy myself I would find an analysis of how the system was put together and how it went wrong fascinating.
One of the things which stood out to me was the apparent and possibly intentional lack of transaction journaling; this is pretty basic stuff, especially where money is involved.
@@loc4725 Ironically, the only journals that latched onto this early on were Private Eye and Computer Weekly.
Yes Paula Vennels needs to answer for everything.
And Angela van den Bogerd needs some serious looking into.
Here is the thing- apart from all the other aspects of this affair the role of Lord Neuberger in the Recusal seems to have escaped attention.
I have therefore pasted the following ‘The role of Lord Neuberger in the recusal fiasco (Justice Fraser) should be investigated’ on as many UA-cam articles as I could, about ten, but when I checked to see if there was any response I discovered they had all been taken down including Talktv
This Kafkaesque episode staggers one at every turn, even when Big brother has been outed he seems to be still working away!
I really want to know why Lord Neuberger interfered , if the recusal had succeeded the whole noble attempt at taking on the stinking system would have failed
Please do explain why this can be allowed in a Democratic county . Why can the post office personnel tell these poor people they are the only ones with said problem, knowing full well that there were hundreds with the same problem. This is greatly shaming to Britain and especially government. Also why were law department s not alerting us about these extra powers given to entities demonstratively not principled enough to handle them.
Well, it’s not allowed but they covered up what they were doing and now they’re starting to face consequences including a huge public inquiry. Hopefully there will be some criminal prosecutions brought against individuals at the Post Office.
I think that Post Office investigations were convinced that Horizon was infallible so from their point of view there were hundreds of other dishonest SPMs. There wasn't a sudden flood of prosecutions, more a steady stream over several years....as I currently understand it
I thought you couldn't limit your rights in law? How were they entitled to exclude legal representation?
Sounds like being a sub-postmaster being interviewed by the Post Office had a strong resemblance to being arrested and interviewed by the Gestapo, with the exceptions that physical torture and execution weren't available to the Post Office and that the Gestapo were actually interested in evidence.
Wait, official secrets act to protect some admin and accounting software? From an effectively private organisation, though perhaps the Companies Act grants them some privileges I am unaware of. I have dealt with much more important software relating to nationally important matters (ultimately outsourced multiple times over landing on my plate because at some point they need an actual developer not bean counters) and nobody seemed to care about the importance of it, nothing in writing, yet this apparently needs the protection of the official secrets act.
Vaguely amazing!
Isn't there some kind of human rights issue here?
Oh what a tangled web they weaved , when the post office set out to deceive
For those people like me who prefer the radio, the BBC have a brilliant documentary available on Sounds: The Great Post Office Trial.
one big cover-up by the post office and this gov again by the Tories
What about the many who made up the shortfalls from their own funds? Seems they have no redress or voice despite us now knowing how flawed and despicable the PO behaved. With the abundance of records available to the enquire such a group deserve recognition and compensation, if only a token sorry. Ops Government don’t do that moral behaviour so why expect the PO. Fish rots from the head.
Great video ❤
Hello are you from Penwortham?
You have to watch the Steven Bradshaw interview
The Post Office investigations were unlawful in my opinion and they need to be challenged on this one?
What you are saying is that the cps
We're not involved an if it were this would have been highlighted .what a fit up .
I have no doubts that without exception these various post masters/mistresses and sub postmasters were innocent. If and it is a big if, fraud occured, it was by someone or some group in very senior positions who knew of a flaw in the post office software, perhaps within Fujitsu itself... just a thought.
What is clear is that the Government has repeatedly had opportunities to redress this scandal.
Where’s the pub?
Remember the post office had an investigation department, how this changed once it was privatised I dont know..but this appears to be unlawful especially at common law and possibly Bill of rights 1688/9 and of course the modern rights act ,not to mention Due process of law legislation circa 1348 ?..soz top of head was 1368 😊
You need to study ‘The Fusion of Common Law and Equity’
@@supertuscans9512 thanks 😊
Th Post Office is not privatised. It's owned by the State (by us).
@@momeara7482 Royal Mail privatised between 2012-'15
The Post Office isn't part of Royal Mail.@@jayturner3397
Hello there. Hope you're well. Sorry to ask but might you do a little something around Anonimity please. Today a football player was found not guilty of sexual assault (I believe) in Newcastle Crown Court. The accuser (?) was know as Ms A type of thing throughout the trial. I kinda get that. But even after the verdict the anonymity continues. If an Accused can be named after being charged 'so others can be encouraged to come forward' is there not an argument for the Accuser to be named 'to encourage others who have in the past been falsely accused' to come forward? Best regards, 😊
Mob tactics
Does anybody know how to start a claim against the Post Office ? I know this sounds silly but where does one start ? I have a nephew and a neice who's mother, my sister in law who has has since died after running a sub post office during this period. Although very little was ever spoken about her departure from her job as a post mistress, it was clear that something was wrong after she sold the business and eventually her house and moved into council accommodation . Where do you start ?
You need to seek legal advice/ go to local CAB where you can speak to a solicitor for free advice, or seek out a well known solicitor who has a history of kicking backsides - first appointment is free with most solicitors.
Welcome to Blair’s Britain.
@@momeara7482 pretty much all to do with him. His government purchased it and were aware of it’s problems. No worries though, lots more jobs for lawyers.
It was ordered by the previous (Tory) Government. Blair's government then had a chance to review it prior to going ahead, but passed on that - trusting the Post Office to select the contractor it preferred. @@bridiesmith5110
👍
#Fujitsu, fudge itso
I hate my neighbour, would love to see him in prison.....I have three brothers, one is a police officer, another is a cps barrister and my third is a judge....any ideas anybody?.....