Helpful video! I'd appreciate even more on receiving the precepts (jukai), novice and full ordinations, and dharma transmission. And now some centers offer lay entrustment. Norman Fischer, in his "What is Zen?", mapped a lengthy, elaborate process. What does one do for these "milestones"? And why?! And what's up with sewing the rakusu, or wearing it? I guess I prefer "Zen without toys" and without the cosplay!
It's great to see that you're down with the TNH now. What a momentous occasion for Western Buddhism! Interestingly enough, regarding his Vietnamese Zen lineage, it is heavily influenced by the classic Theravada sutras, but it also uses the koan system. It's the only Mahayana sect I know of that emphasizes the early Buddhist sutras to the extent that it does. Some Tibetans sects do so as well to a limited degree, but you could be forgiven for thinking that TNH's lineage is almostly completely Theravadan in scope.
Thank you very much. I am suprised, that you were in Poland. I didn't hear about it. Probably I knew nothing about Zen that time 😀. Are you going to come back in the future? I would be so glad to hear your lecture or talk a little about your books. Gassho
Could you do a video about how/when to take the Jukai ceremony, Brad? From what I understand it requires a period of study during which you must also sew the rakusu, etc. So where to start?
I went through Jukai at San Francisco Zen Center about 14 years ago and it does help. I'm surprised that you didn't live in a monastery at some point. I would have thought that was part of the priest training. I'm thinking about arranging to live in one for a year or two, not doing priest training but just as a layman. It seems to me that there would be some value in that. What to do you think?
Sounds like a lot of bother to go through if there is no self. I remember, years ago, on one of your European tour photos, you were in a hottub. I made a "mendicant monk" joke and some default picture in Zen robes tried to take me to task for daring to call you a monk. You always draw the most interesting detractors. It really is part of your appeal, you know?
so, you have no identity of your own ? the cloak of being "pseudo-brad" fits ? in brad shoes i would be disturbed by having a follower like you, so unhealthy
See? I told you this was just that broken quotebot Deepak sent after Brad all those years ago. Crazy that it is still kicking. Has to be half sentient by now. Go away Choprabot designation "Andrew Levin." Come back when you have learned another punctuation besides quotation marks.
I received jukai 6.5 years ago. The ceremony and its public nature emerged later as an important symbol for me. In a few months, I will receive priest ordination according to the Sotoshu instruction. Since I'm in Sojun's lineage (my teacher is K DeCotis), it's a requirement. Bought robes to go under my okesa, have to sew my okesa and associated accessories, and go through a ceremony in the summer (most likely). Are these things necessary? NO. It is a personal choice and certain responsibilities come with it. I have to go to a practice period every 1-2 years and keep in communication with my teacher. I like the Soto lineage and prefer it. It's just another side to the myriad of faces of the Buddhism die. But, hey, who cares?! I'm in the mood for chocolate ice cream.
" I'm in the mood for chocolate ice cream" you mean a toxic look-alike karen decotis ? you are in pretty thick with a bunch of fakes, you think being ordained is going to make it any less that way ?
Andrew Levin hey everybody, it’s the leader of the Andrew Levin Only Knows the Truth Movement. Oh, nobody cares? Oh ok, nobody cares. Get a better hobby than following around Zen Monks to tell them that they are fakes. I mean seriously, show us on the doll where Brad hurt you.
@@BullyMaguire4ever oh yes, you pretend you know brad in real life don't you why not start "not caring" by not following me around ? are you on drugs or something, you seem unstable, inappropriately aggressive and not coherent, i won't be the first to tell you this will I ?
@@BullyMaguire4ever i think you should look at your moniker "belligerant" more, its like the wrong road for brad's vlog you have a good, almost "autistic" vocabulary, but are very unskilled at cogent thinking or writing to convey ideas, instead you just "grunt" and honestly , it doesn't work in the world of writing, however intimidating it might be in real life my comments here are just the development of these skills and to provide material for my own writing, that's all, why not look at your commenting as skill development, particularly understanding what is said to you, rather than "belligerant", which i assure you as a reader becomes tiresome you are just fighting to protect an "attitudinal approach", why ?
Since we are on the topic of your niece wanting to look into a formal Buddhist practice, I have a question (hoping the connection makes sense). I've read quite a bit about gender inequality in Buddhism and I am curious if that is something that you see quite a bit of in this lineage? For example: in some schools of Tibetan Buddhism a 2-year-old boy can be considered a Lama through reincarnation (or whichever means lead to the title) and a 65-year-old woman who is well educated in the dharma can only aspire to Ani (which is translated to something like Auntie). Gender equality is a massive issue that has been weighing on my mind lately and I would love your input on the topic.
I wrote about this matter as it applies to the Zen lineage derived from Dogen in my book Don't Be a Jerk. Dogen wrote an essay called Raihai Tokuzui, which can be translated as Bowing to That Which Has Attained the Marrow (translations differ). In this essay he takes on gender inequality and gender-based discrimination as it existed in Buddhism in his time. He is very firm in saying that such behavior is stupid and not at all in keeping with the Buddhist teachings. He cites the examples of several great female teachers of the past in this and other writings. That being said, not every Zen teacher has practiced what Dogen preached. And not every Zen lineage follows Dogen anyway. So it hasn't always been perfect and there are still issues even today depending on where you go. But, for the most part, I think Zen has a pretty good track record in this area as compared to other forms of Buddhism.
A weirdly timely post- I just logged on to find a way to ask you this question: if you had not ordained already, but still had your practice and studies, would you ordain now?
Out of curiosity, have you transmitted the dharma to anyone?
3 роки тому
When I was visiting a Zen centre here in Rotterdam I referred to myself as a Buddhist and was promptly told that, seeing as I hadn't 'done' jukai I wasn't officially a Buddhist. That put me off that centre because I couldn't recognize that attitude in the sort of Buddhism I choose to be part of. But I don't know if that ordained person was just being elitist or if that's a Western thing? Makes me feel bad for all the Asian Buddhists😊. About the shaving : the Thich Nhat Hahn monesteries require shaving and it looks like that is a permanent thing.
Those Rotterdam Buddhists were wrong. You don't need to do jukai in order to be a Buddhist. Millions of Buddhists all over the world have never done jukai. I'm not surprised that TNH requires head shaving. In that case, they are living in a monastery. It's pretty common that people who are living in a monastery must shave their heads at several times each month. In Japan the tradition is that they shave their heads on every day with a 4 or a 9 in it (the 4th, the 9th, the 14th, the 19th, etc.). But when the monks leave the monastery - for example when they go to serve as the leader of a local temple somewhere - no one checks to see if they are still shaving. From what I have seen, most continue to shave anyway, but some grow their hair (though they usually keep it pretty short).
He was not elitist, he was right. This harks back to the old sutras where the Buddha states that one becomes a Buddhist by taking the threefold refuge, which is part of jukai.
3 роки тому
@@HardcoreZen yeah, I thought so too (that they might be wrong) . I have fond memories Thai temples and a little old Thai lady mumbling her prayers and chants while I meditated among a throng of Thai 'non-Buddhists' 😊
the net has created huge swaths of "pretend", daoists, buddhists, islamists/sufi, anything trendy and can be grasped by a little reading so you can expect the real life religionists to take claims to belong to their religion without active real life involvement with a pinch of salt, especially as "net only" claimants generally have some "heretical streak" the religion is not prepared to accommodate interestingly in the context of this vlog, i think brads involvement in real life buddhism is so marginal as to be disqualified for being a buddhist and he has a clear agenda of creating his own schism, "bradhism", a non ceremonial theologically more vapid but rational version as if that soap opera of nonsense could ever be rational
@@osip7315 You have the rational version for those who that speaks to, the ceremonial version for those into the ceremony, another for the ones who grasped a little, another for the ones who think they have it all figured out, and many versions for those seeking the "real" thing. They're all different expressions, yet they all amount to the same thing. Just different ways to get a kick.
Is it possible for a zen teacher to eventually regret having given the transmission to a certain disciple and hence withdraw the transmission from him/her? In other words, is it possible for somebody to lose their Dharma transmission (shiho) because his/her teacher wants to take it back afterward for some reason? Thank you.
No. Not officially anyway, if you follow the established rules and traditions. Once Dharma Transmission is given it cannot be taken back. This hasn't stopped some teachers from trying. Most notably, one well-known American Zen teacher apparently tried to take back dharma transmission from some students who had received transmission from that teacher. I don't know how that was resolved. The teacher who did this has since passed away.
Joko Beck rescinded the Dharma Transmission for Ezra Bayda and Elizabeth Hamiliton, i don't know why but suspect it was something major like a scandal since she had lived with elizabeth for many years does anybody know ? i spoke to joko years ago when i was planning to visit the zcsd, but she said no, you can't come
@@osip7315 Because Ezra and Elizabelth were part of a board meeting where it was discussed that joko was getting to senile to teach. Word got back to Joko and she felt betrayed.
The whole part about Dharma combat being scripted and the 2000 dollars sounds to me that organization (Soto Shu) is complete BS. Are you joining a religion or a business ?
It seems they are talking about being ordained as priests, or something like that. Certainly not as monks! No monastic ordination here for sure. So... Why use the word "monk" when it just doesn't apply? It is misleading and confusing for some people. (But in a way it's interesting and telling that they would hold on to the word, to the concept, but not the lifestyle and discipline / vinaya 🤔). The bhikshu lineage has been lost a long time ago in Japan... No bhikshu there. So, no monks. Just a misnomer.
The apple and the orange discussing what the banana is doing wrong.. Love you, Brad.
Helpful video! I'd appreciate even more on receiving the precepts (jukai), novice and full ordinations, and dharma transmission. And now some centers offer lay entrustment. Norman Fischer, in his "What is Zen?", mapped a lengthy, elaborate process. What does one do for these "milestones"? And why?!
And what's up with sewing the rakusu, or wearing it? I guess I prefer "Zen without toys" and without the cosplay!
It's great to see that you're down with the TNH now. What a momentous occasion for Western Buddhism! Interestingly enough, regarding his Vietnamese Zen lineage, it is heavily influenced by the classic Theravada sutras, but it also uses the koan system. It's the only Mahayana sect I know of that emphasizes the early Buddhist sutras to the extent that it does. Some Tibetans sects do so as well to a limited degree, but you could be forgiven for thinking that TNH's lineage is almostly completely Theravadan in scope.
Interesting. Dogen also quoted the early Buddhist sutras more than most Mahyana teachers. Not as much as TNH does, though.
Thank you for this, i was ordained by Paul Quintero, discipline and monk ordained by Taisen Deshimaru.
Gassho
Zen buddhism is good for everyone 🙏🏼
Thank you very much. I am suprised, that you were in Poland. I didn't hear about it. Probably I knew nothing about Zen that time 😀. Are you going to come back in the future? I would be so glad to hear your lecture or talk a little about your books.
Gassho
Could you do a video about how/when to take the Jukai ceremony, Brad? From what I understand it requires a period of study during which you must also sew the rakusu, etc. So where to start?
I could try. The problem is that it really depends on who you take juke from. Every teacher has a different way of doing it.
I wonder if B.S. Is an essential human trait. Or rather the production of b.s.
Good one 😅
Very interesting. The beeping was fine :)
so many new videos 😃
I went through Jukai at San Francisco Zen Center about 14 years ago and it does help. I'm surprised that you didn't live in a monastery at some point. I would have thought that was part of the priest training. I'm thinking about arranging to live in one for a year or two, not doing priest training but just as a layman. It seems to me that there would be some value in that. What to do you think?
Sounds like a lot of bother to go through if there is no self.
I remember, years ago, on one of your European tour photos, you were in a hottub. I made a "mendicant monk" joke and some default picture in Zen robes tried to take me to task for daring to call you a monk.
You always draw the most interesting detractors. It really is part of your appeal, you know?
so, you have no identity of your own ?
the cloak of being "pseudo-brad" fits ?
in brad shoes i would be disturbed by having a follower like you, so unhealthy
See? I told you this was just that broken quotebot Deepak sent after Brad all those years ago. Crazy that it is still kicking. Has to be half sentient by now.
Go away Choprabot designation "Andrew Levin." Come back when you have learned another punctuation besides quotation marks.
I received jukai 6.5 years ago. The ceremony and its public nature emerged later as an important symbol for me. In a few months, I will receive priest ordination according to the Sotoshu instruction. Since I'm in Sojun's lineage (my teacher is K DeCotis), it's a requirement. Bought robes to go under my okesa, have to sew my okesa and associated accessories, and go through a ceremony in the summer (most likely). Are these things necessary? NO. It is a personal choice and certain responsibilities come with it. I have to go to a practice period every 1-2 years and keep in communication with my teacher. I like the Soto lineage and prefer it. It's just another side to the myriad of faces of the Buddhism die. But, hey, who cares?! I'm in the mood for chocolate ice cream.
" I'm in the mood for chocolate ice cream" you mean a toxic look-alike
karen decotis ? you are in pretty thick with a bunch of fakes, you think being ordained is going to make it any less that way ?
I believe your teacher has dharma entrustment. Under suzuki roshi's lineage she is not allowed to ordain anyone. Have you talked about this with her?
Andrew Levin hey everybody, it’s the leader of the Andrew Levin Only Knows the Truth Movement. Oh, nobody cares? Oh ok, nobody cares. Get a better hobby than following around Zen Monks to tell them that they are fakes. I mean seriously, show us on the doll where Brad hurt you.
@@BullyMaguire4ever oh yes, you pretend you know brad in real life don't you
why not start "not caring" by not following me around ?
are you on drugs or something, you seem unstable, inappropriately aggressive and not coherent, i won't be the first to tell you this will I ?
@@BullyMaguire4ever i think you should look at your moniker "belligerant" more, its like the wrong road for brad's vlog
you have a good, almost "autistic" vocabulary, but are very unskilled at cogent thinking or writing to convey ideas, instead you just "grunt" and honestly , it doesn't work in the world of writing, however intimidating it might be in real life
my comments here are just the development of these skills and to provide material for my own writing, that's all, why not look at your commenting as skill development, particularly understanding what is said to you, rather than "belligerant", which i assure you as a reader becomes tiresome
you are just fighting to protect an "attitudinal approach", why ?
Sounds like someone thinks very highly of her uncle.
She'll get over it.
Since we are on the topic of your niece wanting to look into a formal Buddhist practice, I have a question (hoping the connection makes sense). I've read quite a bit about gender inequality in Buddhism and I am curious if that is something that you see quite a bit of in this lineage? For example: in some schools of Tibetan Buddhism a 2-year-old boy can be considered a Lama through reincarnation (or whichever means lead to the title) and a 65-year-old woman who is well educated in the dharma can only aspire to Ani (which is translated to something like Auntie). Gender equality is a massive issue that has been weighing on my mind lately and I would love your input on the topic.
I wrote about this matter as it applies to the Zen lineage derived from Dogen in my book Don't Be a Jerk. Dogen wrote an essay called Raihai Tokuzui, which can be translated as Bowing to That Which Has Attained the Marrow (translations differ). In this essay he takes on gender inequality and gender-based discrimination as it existed in Buddhism in his time. He is very firm in saying that such behavior is stupid and not at all in keeping with the Buddhist teachings. He cites the examples of several great female teachers of the past in this and other writings.
That being said, not every Zen teacher has practiced what Dogen preached. And not every Zen lineage follows Dogen anyway. So it hasn't always been perfect and there are still issues even today depending on where you go. But, for the most part, I think Zen has a pretty good track record in this area as compared to other forms of Buddhism.
@@HardcoreZen Thank you. I really appreciate the follow-up and will definitely re-read 'Don't Be a Jerk'. Have an awesome week!
I had very strange feeling, when I used to hear about "the Polish Internet".
It sounds like one of those bad jokes from a long time ago.
A weirdly timely post- I just logged on to find a way to ask you this question: if you had not ordained already, but still had your practice and studies, would you ordain now?
Out of curiosity, have you transmitted the dharma to anyone?
When I was visiting a Zen centre here in Rotterdam I referred to myself as a Buddhist and was promptly told that, seeing as I hadn't 'done' jukai I wasn't officially a Buddhist. That put me off that centre because I couldn't recognize that attitude in the sort of Buddhism I choose to be part of. But I don't know if that ordained person was just being elitist or if that's a Western thing? Makes me feel bad for all the Asian Buddhists😊. About the shaving : the Thich Nhat Hahn monesteries require shaving and it looks like that is a permanent thing.
Those Rotterdam Buddhists were wrong. You don't need to do jukai in order to be a Buddhist. Millions of Buddhists all over the world have never done jukai.
I'm not surprised that TNH requires head shaving. In that case, they are living in a monastery. It's pretty common that people who are living in a monastery must shave their heads at several times each month. In Japan the tradition is that they shave their heads on every day with a 4 or a 9 in it (the 4th, the 9th, the 14th, the 19th, etc.). But when the monks leave the monastery - for example when they go to serve as the leader of a local temple somewhere - no one checks to see if they are still shaving. From what I have seen, most continue to shave anyway, but some grow their hair (though they usually keep it pretty short).
He was not elitist, he was right. This harks back to the old sutras where the Buddha states that one becomes a Buddhist by taking the threefold refuge, which is part of jukai.
@@HardcoreZen yeah, I thought so too (that they might be wrong) . I have fond memories Thai temples and a little old Thai lady mumbling her prayers and chants while I meditated among a throng of Thai 'non-Buddhists' 😊
the net has created huge swaths of "pretend", daoists, buddhists, islamists/sufi, anything trendy and can be grasped by a little reading so you can expect the real life religionists to take claims to belong to their religion without active real life involvement with a pinch of salt, especially as "net only" claimants generally have some "heretical streak" the religion is not prepared to accommodate
interestingly in the context of this vlog, i think brads involvement in real life buddhism is so marginal as to be disqualified for being a buddhist and he has a clear agenda of creating his own schism, "bradhism", a non ceremonial theologically more vapid but rational version as if that soap opera of nonsense could ever be rational
@@osip7315 You have the rational version for those who that speaks to, the ceremonial version for those into the ceremony, another for the ones who grasped a little, another for the ones who think they have it all figured out, and many versions for those seeking the "real" thing. They're all different expressions, yet they all amount to the same thing. Just different ways to get a kick.
Is it possible for a zen teacher to eventually regret having given the transmission to a certain disciple and hence withdraw the transmission from him/her?
In other words, is it possible for somebody to lose their Dharma transmission (shiho) because his/her teacher wants to take it back afterward for some reason? Thank you.
No. Not officially anyway, if you follow the established rules and traditions. Once Dharma Transmission is given it cannot be taken back. This hasn't stopped some teachers from trying. Most notably, one well-known American Zen teacher apparently tried to take back dharma transmission from some students who had received transmission from that teacher. I don't know how that was resolved. The teacher who did this has since passed away.
Joko Beck rescinded the Dharma Transmission for Ezra Bayda and Elizabeth Hamiliton, i don't know why but suspect it was something major like a scandal since she had lived with elizabeth for many years
does anybody know ?
i spoke to joko years ago when i was planning to visit the zcsd, but she said no, you can't come
@@osip7315 Because Ezra and Elizabelth were part of a board meeting where it was discussed that joko was getting to senile to teach. Word got back to Joko and she felt betrayed.
@@berrycrawford5579 she was betrayed in other ways i think
@@osip7315 Didn’t you just ask if anyone knew? Then, provided with one explanation, you insinuate some other? What an annoying habit.
The whole part about Dharma combat being scripted and the 2000 dollars sounds to me that organization (Soto Shu) is complete BS. Are you joining a religion or a business ?
It seems they are talking about being ordained as priests, or something like that. Certainly not as monks!
No monastic ordination here for sure. So... Why use the word "monk" when it just doesn't apply? It is misleading and confusing for some people. (But in a way it's interesting and telling that they would hold on to the word, to the concept, but not the lifestyle and discipline / vinaya 🤔).
The bhikshu lineage has been lost a long time ago in Japan... No bhikshu there. So, no monks. Just a misnomer.
Lots of people say that. But they are mistaken.