The original Enterprise has a horizontal warp & the Enterprise A had a vertical warp core. The vertical warp core also provides more power. There is also around 20+ years of technology upgrades in the refit.
Some pointers, if I may. 1. In engineering, put all but the sensors up to 125% and not just the shields. Having your phasers and torpedoes firing 25% quicker and being able to maneuver better by the same amount helps a fair bit. 2. Select phaser intensity to low, which is better for specific system targeting. I quite often target my opponent's impulse engines to the point that they can't move. It's such an advantage. I miss the tracter beam mod i used to have whereby you can put a replusler beam on. I used to enjoy replusing an enemy ship (whose engines I'd disabled) into a planet or asteroid field. I can't find that mod now. 3. When your opponent is firing, fluctuate between full impulse and reverse, as it often results in not being hit by their torpedoes. I wanna do this battle, but then do the A against the B, the B against the C and so on.
At 1:11 you made mention that the phasers look different and so they should be more powerful. The books written on the Enterprise refit states that the phasers are powered directly from the warp core, whereas in TOS the phasers could tie in to receive warp power.
Plus in the early scene of the first movie, they had to use photons instead of phasers when in that wormhole or whatever because the phasers were tied into the warp core.
@@matthewfischer9983 Yes, Kirk questioned Decker on why his order was countermanded to which Decker replied "Sir, the Enterprise redesign increases phaser power by channelling it through the main engines. When they went into anti-matter imbalance, the phasers were automatically cut off."
Actually TOS Enterprise had a refit but still was NCC-1701 and was selfdestructed over the genesis planet Kirk didn’t get the NCC-1701A until he saved earth from the alien probe and 1701A had a lot of bugs as seen in the beginning of Star Trek V
"With all due respect, Admiral. This is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don't know her a tenth as well as I do!" "Sir, the new design increases power to the phasers by channeling it through the main engines." I figured that would have factored in the fight. The refit is supposed to improve upon shortcomings of the original variant, after all. Those phasers should be hitting harder than the original Enterprise.
I think they represented the differences really well. The refit is a clear and big step up from the TOS era one but it's not like a one shot. like 30% more capable.
If I remember correctly for the old tech manuals from the time of TMP... The refit has new shield tech and phaser power is increased...the main deflector is more shielded by being incorporated into the secondary hull, Torpedoes have better tracking capability and payload was able to be changed on the fly and firing rate. oh and NO aft torpedoes in the refit
In the 1980s when I was a kid. One of my Star Trek playing sessions played out the exact same scenario USS Enterprise NCC-1701 versus USS Enterprise NCC-1701 refit. It turns out an alien race from my own imagination had purchased a surplus Constitution class frame. And a scrapper who purchased all the things they took off the USS Enterprise when they rebuild it prior to Star Trek the motion picture. Sold all these materials to the alien race with them having the idea of building their own Constitution class cruiser. It was up to Captain Spock to deal with the situation. As Captain Kirk was busy with other things on 1701A. Spark had to defeat the former Enterprise. Main differences Spock brought it back intact. So as I was playing Star Trek there were three USS Enterprise in the 23rd how 1701 refit was brought back is another story let's just say temporal traveling aliens helped bring it back. A more detailed story may come later to explain what I did as a kid.
if going by TOS show showings and the TOS movie showings the TOS enterprise should be able to walk all over the refit enterprise. but going by logical progression the refit is more advanced and thus should win due to having better tech.
Curious why you'd think that. There is no logical reason why the TOS Constitution (a ship using tech 20 years older) would be stronger than the Refit Constitution.
@@vonfrank42 star trek VI changs' torpedoes a few of them (no more than 6-10) punch through the shields and blow a hole through the saucer section. TOS episode nomad enterprise shields withstand equivalent to 450 photon torpedoes but with all warp power tied to shields. so let's say no warp power the shields take 200 photon torpedoes. see the difference there. before anyone say oh but star trek VI maybe they got better torpedoes by then ok fine let's say their torpedo yields are double. still the enterprise shields could still take 100 torpedoes.
The refit had much more powerful phasers. In TMP, Decker explains that they draw their power directly from the warp reactor, and the photon torpedoes would be more powerful just based on advancement over time.
In ST TMP right away we see the Refit's shields hold against the V'ger weapon. Even if torps and phasers were even...yeah. I honestly thought it went well, with systems staying online (engines, torpedoes phasers) through the whole of the battle.
It means that the Klingons should never have been able to best the Enterprise when it was upgraded (before the 1701A)since they could never best the orginial.
The Klingons did not have a ship that could match the Constitution Class 1-on-1, but they also upgraded their warships. The K'Tinga is basically a beefed up D-7. But still, I think at best the Ktinga is about 66% of the Connie.
Goes without saying if the Refit is in it's own era, it will have the access to parts and personnel. If stuck in the past, it would take months to repair instead of weeks.
the enterprise refit does not seem to have rear torpedo launchers which is not only disappointing but somewhat inexplicable as the torpedo bay would have a clear firing arc to the rear right where it already is
I don't know if that program has this ship, but try Nero's ship, the Narada against the Death Star. In the 2009 movie it took a black hole to destroy it. Just tell Nero that Spock is on board 😄
The Refit Enterprise has much more powerful phasers, since they were channelled through the main engines. That's why their phasers were more effective than the original's.
Trial and Error I'm afraid. It's system specific when it comes to bridge commander. Make sure you are running it as an administrator otherwise it won't work properly. Failing that, make sure you have the 1.1 patch installed first.
Considering that the refit's engines generate six times more power than the original's, phasers, shields and torpedoes are all more powerful (phasers not only have more power to draw from but are more efficient), I'd say the original survived far too long.
i doubt it's 6 times more powerful. because the refit did not show abilities that were heads and shoulders above the TOS variant. if anything it seemed like the refit version looked weaker than the TOS variant if we go by showings in the show/movies. 1.) star trek motion picture. most impressive thing is the enterprise destroying that little asteroid with 1 photon torpedo or taking 1 hit from v'ger which drained the shields by 70%. could the TOS variant destroy that asteroid with 1 torpedo? if not 1 maybe 2? TOS showed pretty powerful torpedoes a few able to destroy a klingon warship in errand of mercy. as for the shields... maybe they survive 1 hit but with 100 shields drained. 2.) star trek wrath of khan enterprise almost gets crippled from a few phaser hits and 1 torpedo from reliant. would TOS variant fare any better? actually to me it always seemed like the TOS variant was tougher considering it took unshielded hits from the ISS avenger (i know it's a 22nd century ship) and the bridge only had a few sparks and not even a scratch to the paint job. 3.) star trek III , not much showings. 4.) doesn't apply 5.) enterprise is a mess. 6.) that battle with chagns bird of prey is unimpressive considering in star trek III kruge said enterprise outguns them 10:1
@@cosmeticscameo8277 Many sources give this ratio. I'm not sure, but I think that the Mr Scott's guide to the Enterprise states that. I'll agree that its too much of a leap, but that's what the documentation says. About the impression you get from watching the movies, you'll remember that there were some "updates" between TOS and what came later. For example, back in the day, ships fought at warp speed, while it was never shown in either movies or later shows. Distances also were dramatically reduced, from tens of thousands of kilometres to a few hundred meters. That, BTW, is one of the (very) few flaws I see in ST II: TWoK. The fact that the Enterprise could survive Reliant's first salvo without shields is another. All that said, I'm impressed by your knowledge of ST canon. Just referring to Kruge's comment of the power disparities between both ships is worthy of great respect.
What people often over look are real world examples . Such as how much destructive damage a torpedo could do in WW 1 verses the damage a WW 2 torpedo could do . Basically night and day . Remember in the real world this was a 20 year Difference
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The original Enterprise has a horizontal warp & the Enterprise A had a vertical warp core. The vertical warp core also provides more power. There is also around 20+ years of technology upgrades in the refit.
In the first Trek movie Sulo says "The new shields held", which implies they were stronger than those on the pre-refit Enterprise.
Some pointers, if I may.
1. In engineering, put all but the sensors up to 125% and not just the shields. Having your phasers and torpedoes firing 25% quicker and being able to maneuver better by the same amount helps a fair bit.
2. Select phaser intensity to low, which is better for specific system targeting. I quite often target my opponent's impulse engines to the point that they can't move. It's such an advantage. I miss the tracter beam mod i used to have whereby you can put a replusler beam on. I used to enjoy replusing an enemy ship (whose engines I'd disabled) into a planet or asteroid field. I can't find that mod now.
3. When your opponent is firing, fluctuate between full impulse and reverse, as it often results in not being hit by their torpedoes.
I wanna do this battle, but then do the A against the B, the B against the C and so on.
That was a really amazing video a battle between 2 of the greatest Starships ever
Judging by the amount of damage movie era ships could take and still fly. Im not surprised the refit came out on top. Ship was a beast.
the TOS movies showed a pretty pitiful enterprise except for the motion picture.
At 1:11 you made mention that the phasers look different and so they should be more powerful. The books written on the Enterprise refit states that the phasers are powered directly from the warp core, whereas in TOS the phasers could tie in to receive warp power.
Plus in the early scene of the first movie, they had to use photons instead of phasers when in that wormhole or whatever because the phasers were tied into the warp core.
@@matthewfischer9983 Yes, Kirk questioned Decker on why his order was countermanded to which Decker replied "Sir, the Enterprise redesign increases phaser power by channelling it through the main engines. When they went into anti-matter imbalance, the phasers were automatically cut off."
Actually TOS Enterprise had a refit but still was NCC-1701 and was selfdestructed over the genesis planet Kirk didn’t get the NCC-1701A until he saved earth from the alien probe and 1701A had a lot of bugs as seen in the beginning of Star Trek V
Kirk vs Kirk I think that is exactly how it would work out. Kirk in the original vs a lesser captain in the refit, I bet Kirk could pull it off
"With all due respect, Admiral. This is an almost totally new Enterprise. You don't know her a tenth as well as I do!"
"Sir, the new design increases power to the phasers by channeling it through the main engines."
I figured that would have factored in the fight. The refit is supposed to improve upon shortcomings of the original variant, after all. Those phasers should be hitting harder than the original Enterprise.
one shortcoming of the drawing pwoer from the warp core.
if enemy takes out your warp core you got no phasers.
@@cosmeticscameo8277 You also got no ship after that.
@@danieldb631 i don't mean breach the core i mean disable your warp core.
I think they represented the differences really well. The refit is a clear and big step up from the TOS era one but it's not like a one shot. like 30% more capable.
If I remember correctly for the old tech manuals from the time of TMP... The refit has new shield tech and phaser power is increased...the main deflector is more shielded by being incorporated into the secondary hull, Torpedoes have better tracking capability and payload was able to be changed on the fly and firing rate. oh and NO aft torpedoes in the refit
The graphics are magnificent! The sound effects are prime. Only complaint is refit enterprise doesn’t seem to be making much use of torpedoes.
I'm giving you 5 thumps up for that you tube played in the commercial for the iron dome defense system
In the 1980s when I was a kid. One of my Star Trek playing sessions played out the exact same scenario USS Enterprise NCC-1701 versus USS Enterprise NCC-1701 refit. It turns out an alien race from my own imagination had purchased a surplus Constitution class frame. And a scrapper who purchased all the things they took off the USS Enterprise when they rebuild it prior to Star Trek the motion picture. Sold all these materials to the alien race with them having the idea of building their own Constitution class cruiser. It was up to Captain Spock to deal with the situation. As Captain Kirk was busy with other things on 1701A. Spark had to defeat the former Enterprise. Main differences Spock brought it back intact. So as I was playing Star Trek there were three USS Enterprise in the 23rd how 1701 refit was brought back is another story let's just say temporal traveling aliens helped bring it back. A more detailed story may come later to explain what I did as a kid.
thanks for doing this sug of mine, the A is my ALL time fav of the star trek ships.
if going by TOS show showings and the TOS movie showings the TOS enterprise should be able to walk all over the refit enterprise.
but going by logical progression the refit is more advanced and thus should win due to having better tech.
Well put! 👌
Curious why you'd think that. There is no logical reason why the TOS Constitution (a ship using tech 20 years older) would be stronger than the Refit Constitution.
@@vonfrank42 star trek VI changs' torpedoes a few of them (no more than 6-10) punch through the shields and blow a hole through the saucer section.
TOS episode nomad enterprise shields withstand equivalent to 450 photon torpedoes but with all warp power tied to shields. so let's say no warp power the shields take 200 photon torpedoes. see the difference there. before anyone say oh but star trek VI maybe they got better torpedoes by then ok fine let's say their torpedo yields are double. still the enterprise shields could still take 100 torpedoes.
Is there any chance you would be willing to provide a list of sources for all the addtional ships you use, both ST and non-ST?
The refit had much more powerful phasers. In TMP, Decker explains that they draw their power directly from the warp reactor, and the photon torpedoes would be more powerful just based on advancement over time.
Nice battle
Hughe difrences ey?
For next can u do enterprise-b Vs enterprise A?
In ST TMP right away we see the Refit's shields hold against the V'ger weapon. Even if torps and phasers were even...yeah. I honestly thought it went well, with systems staying online (engines, torpedoes phasers) through the whole of the battle.
Target the warp drive and photon control. But first you should learn why things work on a starship.
Haha. I remembered to the raise the shields though ;-).
it's the battle of the Enterprises.
It means that the Klingons should never have been able to best the Enterprise when it was upgraded (before the 1701A)since they could never best the orginial.
1v1 klingons ships are below 50/50 odds. hence why they always gang up on the enterprise.
The Klingons did not have a ship that could match the Constitution Class 1-on-1, but they also upgraded their warships. The K'Tinga is basically a beefed up D-7. But still, I think at best the Ktinga is about 66% of the Connie.
Minor tactical victory. TOS Enterprise was destroyed, but refit Enterprise will be in the yards for quite a while being repaired.
Goes without saying if the Refit is in it's own era, it will have the access to parts and personnel. If stuck in the past, it would take months to repair instead of weeks.
@@Euripides_Panz it wouldn't be unusual for starfleet to have older ships doing other work like patrolling less hostile areas.
5:09 that's only because Lieutenant Commander Data was remote controlling the Constitution Refit.
Here's an interesting concept...I forget what the refit added, but my guess before watching is it's still pretty even.
Yep, it was close. (Edit)
What was this made with?
the enterprise refit does not seem to have rear torpedo launchers which is not only disappointing but somewhat inexplicable as the torpedo bay would have a clear firing arc to the rear right where it already is
I don't know if that program has this ship, but try Nero's ship, the Narada against the Death Star. In the 2009 movie it took a black hole to destroy it.
Just tell Nero that Spock is on board 😄
The Refit Enterprise has much more powerful phasers, since they were channelled through the main engines. That's why their phasers were more effective than the original's.
Should make a sovereign against Kazon
How did you get the Remastered Mod to work? Mine constantly crashes when starting a battle
Trial and Error I'm afraid. It's system specific when it comes to bridge commander. Make sure you are running it as an administrator otherwise it won't work properly. Failing that, make sure you have the 1.1 patch installed first.
do you get TOS ships in BC remasterd ?
Yep! It's a great mod.
Considering that the refit's engines generate six times more power than the original's, phasers, shields and torpedoes are all more powerful (phasers not only have more power to draw from but are more efficient), I'd say the original survived far too long.
i doubt it's 6 times more powerful. because the refit did not show abilities that were heads and shoulders above the TOS variant. if anything it seemed like the refit version looked weaker than the TOS variant if we go by showings in the show/movies.
1.) star trek motion picture. most impressive thing is the enterprise destroying that little asteroid with 1 photon torpedo or taking 1 hit from v'ger which drained the shields by 70%. could the TOS variant destroy that asteroid with 1 torpedo? if not 1 maybe 2? TOS showed pretty powerful torpedoes a few able to destroy a klingon warship in errand of mercy. as for the shields... maybe they survive 1 hit but with 100 shields drained.
2.) star trek wrath of khan enterprise almost gets crippled from a few phaser hits and 1 torpedo from reliant. would TOS variant fare any better? actually to me it always seemed like the TOS variant was tougher considering it took unshielded hits from the ISS avenger (i know it's a 22nd century ship) and the bridge only had a few sparks and not even a scratch to the paint job.
3.) star trek III , not much showings.
4.) doesn't apply
5.) enterprise is a mess.
6.) that battle with chagns bird of prey is unimpressive considering in star trek III kruge said enterprise outguns them 10:1
@@cosmeticscameo8277 Many sources give this ratio. I'm not sure, but I think that the Mr Scott's guide to the Enterprise states that.
I'll agree that its too much of a leap, but that's what the documentation says.
About the impression you get from watching the movies, you'll remember that there were some "updates" between TOS and what came later. For example, back in the day, ships fought at warp speed, while it was never shown in either movies or later shows. Distances also were dramatically reduced, from tens of thousands of kilometres to a few hundred meters. That, BTW, is one of the (very) few flaws I see in ST II: TWoK. The fact that the Enterprise could survive Reliant's first salvo without shields is another.
All that said, I'm impressed by your knowledge of ST canon. Just referring to Kruge's comment of the power disparities between both ships is worthy of great respect.
What people often over look are real world examples . Such as how much destructive damage a torpedo could do in WW 1 verses the damage a WW 2 torpedo could do . Basically night and day . Remember in the real world this was a 20 year Difference
@@sergioaccioly5219 i'm a avg trekkie at best. thanks.
@@haroldchase1881 accuracy has more to do with it. unless someone can tell us yield diffrences between a WW1 torpedo vs WW2 torpedo.
Now make nx01vs generational nx01
NCC-1701... no bloody A, B, C, or D.
I’m pretty sure refit Enterprise would make fast work of 1701. I really don’t think 1701 could damage refit with its new shields.
not fast work. the refit would win but she ain't walking away without bruises.
How bout 3 enterprise b vs a galaxy class
Sounds good!
@@RetroBadgerGaming hope to see it
@@hatfield4805 Galaxy would be destroyed
What game is this?
It got me to Wonder what woud happen if tmp vs kelvin
JJprise blows; TOS & refit Big E would get a bloody nose but turn that Klingon garbage barge into a drifting navigational hazard.
Enterprise F v/s V'ger
Where do I find this game at?
Ebay but the mods are online
Think it's on GOG as well.
Not latinum but tritanium
Can't it go AI vs AI? You may be a better pilot.
That's an idea. I could sit in a cloaked ship and watch the fight.